Mamamia Out Loud: Your Rich Friends Should Pay For Dinner

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Mumma Mia out now!

Hello and welcome to Mumma Mia Out Loud.

It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the 29th of September.

I am Holly Wainwright. I am Mia Friedman.

And I am Claire Stevens. We sound weird today.

We all sound surprised about who we are today.

On today's show, everyone is talking about whether it's possible for a man to give a woman a compliment without it being creepy AF.

Also, should the richest person at the table always pay the dinner bill?

And we wrap up the week with our best and worst as always, which include a stolen identity, a bloody sign of stress and a pedestrian echidna.

But first, Mia Friedman.

In case you missed it, guess what you can do with a carrot?

No, it's not a rude thing. You can apparently give yourself a tan.

There is a beauty trend going viral on TikTok.

It's called the carrot tan and it involves eating carrots to get a natural glow.

Now, this sounds like quite a safe way to get a tan because we know that the sun is not good.

It's skin cells in trauma. That's what a tan is.

But some people are using the carrot tan technique to do that.

So it's kind of like cheaper than getting a spray tan, cheaper than maybe buying some self-tanner.

In fact, one TikToker named Isabelle has claimed that eating three carrots a day has given her her natural tan.

Here's what she says.

Three large carrots a day and you can change your natural undertone.

This is literally the skin that I was born with and this is me with no fake tanner.

I have been eating three large carrots a day for the past two years.

It changes everything, trust me. Like literally you're going to glow from the inside out. Love ya.

Well, look, podcast on a visual medium. We can't show you what Isabelle looks like, but she used quite tan.

But you know, that's not a scientific test.

Is she orange tan, like carrot colored tan?

Like glowy tan.

Like golden tan.

Yeah. So she seems to be suggesting it's a glowy tan.

Whereas I...

I don't know what that means.

Like, you wouldn't want to be the color of a carrot, would you?

No.

A Donald Trump shirt.

You'll be shocked to hear that there has been no research conducted on how many carrots are safe to eat.

Because scientists are trying to cure cancer, thank you very much.

But eating around three kilograms of carrots weekly is said to cause safe skin tone changes.

Professor Lauren Bell and Dr. Emily Birch wrote an article for Mamma Mia about this, which we will link to in the show notes.

Oh my God. You did not just say that. How old are you?

What are you, a lawyer?

Don't you think you're a little old to be using cheesy pickup lines?

Everyone is talking about whether or not a man can give a woman a compliment.

I need to add the words these days to the end of that sentence.

And when I do that, we all know what these days is code for.

It's code for in this wild, woke world we live in now.

One such person is writer Christopher Bantic, whose column in The Sydney Morning Herald called

Can You Give a Woman a Compliment on Her Appearance?

Not anymore, it seems.

Has gone a little bit viral and lots of people are talking about it.

He wrote, there was once a time you could give a woman on the street a compliment without it appearing to be an ulterior motive.

For example, you look very smart. I think your dress is lovely.

He says that now if he's going to give a woman a compliment, he's learned to ask for permission.

So he might say something like, would you mind if I told you that your hair looks nice?

You've already given the compliment, mate.

Which is somehow stranger indeed.

And he asks, have we really become so timid and mindful of not wanting to cause a fence that we have to lose out on the little

Philip of self-esteem that can come from someone offering up a short sentence to put a spring in our step?

I love this.

Well, I want to tell you what another Herald Ryder wrote about this.

Kerry Sackville, who's a really funny writer, she wrote a reply with a suggested list of rules that were, men cannot compliment a stranger.

Men cannot compliment a woman if there is any power imbalance at play, i.e., you're her boss, she's your boss, she's the barista in a cafe, etc.

Concluding, women still like to be appreciated, but we just put feeling safe above all else.

So I want to know from Claire Stevens first, if there's any circumstance where she thinks it's okay for a man who is not your husband, your brother, your father to pay you a compliment and it's okay.

Well, I think it's interesting that this entire conversation is solely about compliments around women's appearance.

So our friend, Christopher, was very upset because he said, I see women on the street and I have a thought and I don't know why I can't share that thought.

And that is oppressive to me. He is an older gentleman.

I think we would probably classify it as a boomer.

Yeah. And so he was basically saying, like, you know, I see a smart outfit. I want to tell her.

My question for Christopher is, have you ever gone up to a man on the street and told him that you think his outfit is smart?

Well, he can't answer that question for you, Claire, because he's not here.

Well, I would say the answer would be no.

And my response to that would be, you wouldn't do that because that would be patronizing and weird.

And you wouldn't go up to a man and say, I think your suit looks smart because a man is not an object for you to comment on while he's walking down the street, whereas a woman is.

So I think the moral panic about this is ignoring the fact that women socially have always been valued more highly for how they look than anything else.

And also we are used to being objects when we walk down the street.

I want to know what Mia thinks.

I think in the Barbie movie where Barbie goes into the real world and she's walking down the street and she suddenly feels a thing that she can't identify.

And I think she describes it as, I'm aware, but I'm aware of myself.

And basically she's describing what the male gaze feels like, what it's like to be looked at by men.

I don't think we should give Chris a hard time.

Like I genuinely don't because I think that it's really easy to, particularly with boomers, and I even feel it as a Gen XR, you've got to give people time to adjust to the fact that the world has changed.

And I know I say this a lot, but 30 years ago when I was a waitress, customers used to pinch my bum.

And that was just a thing that happened.

A few years ago before that, people used to smoke in the office.

That was a thing that happened.

Our social and cultural standards and expectations have changed and that's a good thing.

But for some people, they haven't understood why.

And I think what Chris doesn't understand, and it's the same reason that men didn't understand why women don't like it when you say a smile.

This idea that I'm being looked at is kind of an intrusive one.

Like I dress for myself.

Some people do dress for that, but not everybody does.

And I do always comment on women's appearances.

Sorry, not their appearances.

They're clothes because that's currency to me.

And it's also someone's clothes is something that's not actually them.

And because there was a choice made about, I bought this, I decided to wear this today.

I think it's a very neutral compliment.

But when you compliment the way someone looks apart from that or even just their outfit in the street, when you are someone of a different gender, it does feel different.

And I wouldn't expect Chris to know that because he's a guy.

I wouldn't expect so.

I would like to understand when it is okay, right?

So Claire, I think we're all on exactly the same page that strangers, male strangers commenting on your appearance in the street is never welcome.

I can't think of a time when I was like, oh, that's nice.

But I want to stretch it a bit in terms of these rules.

So I work with cement.

So do you.

We all work in the same place.

Are they allowed to say nice dress, nice hair, like those shoes?

No.

So I would find that strange.

Why?

Because I'm not in the workplace to be looked at and judged on my appearance.

What if I say it to you?

What if I say nice dress, nice hair, nice shoes?

I get a bit frustrated by that argument that a lot of people are like, well, why is it okay if you flip it?

And it's like, because it's called the male gaze.

It's the male gaze.

Women don't have the male gaze.

We all understand that.

What you've just said and what Mia said about that is 100% true.

And I agree with you, but why do we assume that a man who we work with, who knows us well, wants to say nice shirt that it's somehow got an undertone of sexual power?

Because when it's a woman, there is assuming she's straight.

Assuming she's straight, but even if she's not, there's more of an affinity around, oh, nice shirt.

I'm interested because where did you get it?

Yes.

And I'm interested because, oh, I quite like that for me type thing.

It's like, there's a connection there.

Whereas when a man comes up to you, especially a man where there is a power imbalance, where there's an age difference, whatever.

If a man comes up and says, oh, I really like that dress, it is making you feel like a piece of-

You're pleasing to my eye.

Yes.

You are pleasing to my eye.

And that plays in to exactly what women are constantly conscious of, that we are meant to be pleasing externally to the people around us.

I have a question because some women do like that.

Firstly, how's a man to know if she likes it or not?

I would like it.

Secondly, Chris talks about slogan t-shirts.

He said, he talks about having that he's had to give up reading statements on t-shirts because he said it became clear that reading the message ran the risk of offending the wearer.

And then he says, but I would argue that if you don't like being looked at by strangers in the street, why wear a t-shirt with words on it and invite unwanted stares?

Don't start.

Well, answer that question.

One of the parts of this that I really agree with Claire's position and your position about, which is that I think that that is just an extension of an argument that is like if you don't want to be looked at, why don't you go out with a sack over your head?

If you don't want to be looked at, why did you put any makeup on today?

Why if you don't want to be looked at?

And I have no time for that because what I believe about this is that women are smart and we have a radar that pings, that tells us who is genuinely just saying nice shirt.

Like if one of the men in our office told me that my dress was nice, it would not bother me even a little bit because I don't think they're coming on to me.

I don't think they're trying to belittle me.

I think they're just people I know who have eyes and we're all allowed to comment on that stuff.

But if a guy in the street is like, if you didn't want me to look at your tits, why did you wear that t-shirt?

Then my radar is pinging.

You know what I mean?

I think we're all clever and I think that the reason why this column, if it has inspired any ire is because it's almost like willfully ignoring that fact that he's sort of like, can't a man just say a thing?

And we're all saying, but it's never just a man saying a thing.

But I'm going to argue against that because sometimes it just is.

You know, I don't necessarily agree that there should be a gender divide on whether or not someone can tell me I've got nice shoes or that I look nice today.

I really don't mind.

I am conscious of the increasing policing of what you can and can't say.

I see articles, you know, as someone who's pregnant, I see tiktoks, I see articles that are like all the things not to say to pregnant women.

And I'm like, oh, we're policing things to the extent where you just feel bad saying anything about anything.

And I agree.

And look, if a guy came up to me in the street and said, I really like that dress, I'm not going to berate him.

And 99% of women are not going to berate him.

And that's why I was a bit frustrated by Christopher's column because I'm like, she's just probably going to think like, uh, and that's okay.

Like you're allowed to say something and somebody is allowed to not receive it in the best way and you can move on.

Just like Christopher, mate, you're allowed to think something about a woman's outfit and not say it.

You're actually that's a thing that can happen.

You can think, I like that dress.

You can have a thought that doesn't come out of your mouth.

I've heard rumors about this.

And I love what Kerry Sackville writes, which is, if you really want to brighten a woman's day, smile and be polite and respectful.

That's what she likes.

Give her a smile in the workplace.

If somebody is like, I want to brighten Claire's day, say hello and ask me how I am.

Like a man does not need to comment on what I'm wearing.

But I think it's also about what new value compliments like, you know, if I see someone like I've become one of those weird people who go, I really like your outfit to people.

I don't know, like in the supermarket or in the street or whatever, because I'm also aware.

Like if I see a particularly an elderly person and I give them a compliment, there's something about being noticed at an age where you feel invisible, which I think Chris is talking about.

He's at that age that is actually very validating.

But there's no subtext of male gaze in that interaction at all.

Exactly.

And there's more of a connection in it because you're like clearly no offense, but by looking at you, you're into clothes.

And I've seen you do it in public.

Go up to somebody and say, I really like that scarf.

Would you get it?

And it's genuine connection exactly that isn't about objectifying the person.

Whereas whenever a man comments on my appearance, I feel objectified.

See, I don't agree with that.

I agree with 99% of what we're saying and male gaze, of course.

But one of my friends' husbands, we went out for a fancy dinner, get dressed up.

He said, you look great.

He was not trying to pick me up.

He's not trying to objectify me.

He's just giving me a compliment and I liked it.

And I put it in my little compliment bank because I'd made a lot of effort to look great.

Thank you very much.

Actually, yes.

If you're going to like a black tie event and you look unlike you've ever looked before

and a male friend says, you look great, you're like, thank you.

I like it when men have to be descriptive about clothes because often they don't have the words.

So they'll call everything a dress.

Yeah.

Brent does that.

That's a lovely dress.

And it's like that's a top or a skirt.

Tell us out loud.

Is it ever okay for a man to pay you a compliment?

You can leave a voice note, send an email to outloud at mamamia.com.au.

Mamamia out loud.

So five of us is 3350 a piece.

No, no way.

Sorry, not going to happen.

How about we'll each just pay for what we had?

It's no big deal.

The most viral article on Mamamia this week is one by friend of the podcast, Emily Vernon,

who wrote, I expect my rich friends to pay for my half of dinner and you should too.

So yes, she chose violence this week and I respect it.

She did.

She's copying it a little bit.

She was like sometimes I feel like stirring the pot.

In it, she tells the story of going to dinner with a much wealthier friend who when it came time to pay told the wait staff they'd split the bill.

And M was like, what?

No, absolutely not.

M hadn't chosen the restaurant or the fancy bottle of wine, but the biggest part of the equation was it was $400 and something.

And the biggest part of the equation was her friend is richer than her.

So her friend should pay.

M describes her as the sort of person who's so rich, she forgets she's rich and crucially, she's, I didn't know this was a lot of money rich.

So she wouldn't know that the almost $250 she was expecting M to pay was the most M had spent on anything in months.

M writes that since then she's been a big advocate of asking your, I didn't know this was a lot of money rich friend to cover your half of the meal if they're not willing to change their lifestyle to suit your needs.

Mia, you have more money than me and Holly.

And when we go to dinner, you pay.

How do you feel about that?

Not always.

Not always.

There's a complex dynamic there because sometimes if I go to dinner with Mia and other grown up friends, we split.

But if we go for dinner with you and Jesse, who are children, she pays for the children.

Can you imagine me splitting a bill with you, Jesus?

Before we talk about our particular situations, because the dynamics interesting enough, I like that Holly's noticed every time I don't pay for dinner.

No, I don't.

She's clearly keeping it up.

She'll invoice you.

But I think what's really important to the context for this, because when I read the headline, funnily enough, I got incredibly irritated.

But then I read the piece and M is an Australian woman of South Asian heritage.

And as part of her story, she wrote, I've been raised in a culture where if you were going out to dinner with other people, the bill was like an anti lottery ticket that every family wanted to take care of.

You had to fight for it.

I've seen my dad grab another man by the shoulders to push him out of the way so that he could get the bill first and pay for everyone.

I've seen children used as distractions so the other family wouldn't see my mom quietly walk up to the front desk and pay for the meal while we were still laughing.

Yelling, laughing phrases like we'll get you next time followed when the other family realized what she had done.

So I think that's really important.

So her cultural upbringing, and I would say mine is similar, is watching that, watching the idea that it was seen as status to pay the bill.

Maybe status?

A mark of generosity, a mark of, I don't know, almost like an etiquette thing, like a funny thing.

But you're right.

Like I remember seeing like dueling credit cards and people doing tricks to pay the bill.

And I still see my husband do that all the time.

So that's interesting.

My partner's exactly the opposite.

When the bill comes, where's he gone?

Oh, he's at the toilet.

Oh, I know.

But it's interesting that you say that because growing up, that was not my experience.

Yeah, right.

And it's only spending time with other people's families that I see that and think, oh, it was never,

it was never a mark of status.

As in it was always, we'll split it.

Well, because it's not possible for everybody.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I get that.

So by the end of reading this article and please out loud as read it, don't just like crack on in the comments or whatever.

We'll link to it in the show notes.

I really understood.

And I think that when you know that you out earn or out have the money at the table, it feels incredibly petty to just be like,

oh, you owe $23 or whatever.

So to get rid of any awkwardness, I will often do that.

And also when it's in a work situation, I will often do it because, you know, I will.

But I've also noticed how, and I've had to talk to my husband about this too, that it can be really disempowering for people.

It can be really infantilizing isn't quite the right word.

But even though it's not done as a power move, or maybe it is, you can take people's power away.

Well, this is the thing I was going to say.

I think it's more complex because, you know, we were joking before when I said that, you know, when we go out for dinner,

sometimes you pay, sometimes you don't.

And you were like, I'm glad you were keeping tabs.

But the truth of that statement is I wouldn't like it if you always paid for dinner because we're friends, right?

It depends on the circumstances of who we're with and all those things.

But if we're like a dinner of equals, if you know what I mean, that sounds wrong because it makes it sound like that younger colleagues, whatever, aren't equals.

It's not that.

But like, I think it would be weird if our power dynamic was that you always paid, you know, or that we were in a shop together and you'd be like, let me get that.

That would just be weird.

So I don't think.

I don't think it's that simple.

But the thing that's also interesting is that I read this story by M, which is great, as you've said.

And I thought, oh, shit, I've been for dinner with M and I'm older than M and I'm sure I earn more money than M.

And we split the bill.

I'm sure she was like, oh, but then I thought there are times when I go for brunch or lunch or whatever with a person who I know is maybe younger and maybe doesn't earn what I earn.

But they've got less financial responsibilities than I do.

So sometimes I'll be like, well, I know I probably should pay for your eggs and coffee and all the things and it's $35.

But to be honest, I didn't factor in spending $80 on breakfast today and I've got a mortgage and kids and so it can be like a complicate.

And I know that all of this is very privileged because, you know, if you're going out for brunches and lunches and splitting bills and all those things, you've got a certain amount of disposal income.

But like, sometimes I'm like, do I have to pay because I probably earn more?

Or do I not have to pay because I've got more things to pay for in my world?

That's the awkward thing about this is that you cannot always tell who the rich person is.

And you think you can.

You think that you go out with a group of people and you're like, oh yeah, so-and-so is a doctor.

They're set.

They've got more money than me.

So-and-so is a lawyer.

But you actually don't know and you don't know what a person's living situation is like and who's got a mortgage and who's got a baby and all of that.

So my brothers in our family's the weirdest dynamic.

They always assume that I'm going to pay wherever we go to the movies, to breakfast, to dinner, whatever.

They're 30 years old.

And they assume-

But they're younger than you, right?

So you're-it's the older, younger dynamic.

Exactly.

So they're like, you're my big sister.

You're going to pay.

And I'm a little bit like, hold on a second.

I have a baby on the way.

I've had to move to a bigger place.

Just in terms of disposable income, you have more than I do.

This is really strange.

But I, in terms of like a rich person paying when you go to dinner, I have always found it so uncomfortable.

I always want to split the bill.

The only reason I don't kind of fight when Mia does it is because in my head, I tell myself she's going to tax-

Slave it.

Tax it.

Expense it.

She probably doesn't and knowing Mia-

Except when you own the business, expensing it, just steal your money.

I know.

Exactly.

And I refuse to think too hard about that because it gives me anxiety.

No, but I'll tell you exactly why I do it because this is probably too much information for out louders.

But working with friends is weird.

And you guys do so much in a work capacity and for me in a work capacity far and above what you're paid for technically.

So taking you out to dinner, and I don't even see it as that, but covering the bill is like a drop in the ocean as far as I'm concerned.

I prefer to think of the tax write-off element because that makes me feel anxious.

And when I go to dinner with, even I have it with my partner's family who have always been so generous and you go to dinner and they pay,

I always feel weird about it.

And I'm always weird.

I'm like, who's paying?

Thank you.

Thank you.

But then it's funny when you're in the situation where you actually couldn't really pay if you wanted to.

So every now and then I think, Rory, me and you should pay.

And then you go to a restaurant and you're kind of with the whole family and you see what the bill is and you're like, oh, mate, even if we wanted to, we could get that.

And this is the key to this that's important.

And M makes this point.

The whole argument with her friend is that they're at an expensive restaurant.

Dinner for two has cost nearly $500.

That is not normal.

And if you didn't have any say in that, because if I'm going for dinner with my mates, we probably have different economic realities.

We've got different responsibilities.

Some are single families.

Some are earning more.

Some are earning less.

We'll go somewhere really affordable.

We'll often choose a BYO.

We know that then there's no RG bargy.

Like it's just all going to be this much money and it's not going to strain anybody.

But if somebody wants to go somewhere fancy and often for my birthday, I want to go somewhere fancy, then you've got more of a responsibility.

You've got more of a responsibility to go well then that has to be factored into who's pay.

Yes.

But even still, I can remember, and I don't know if this is social anxiety or whatever it is.

I remember everyone in my life and whether they've paid for a drink for me, a meal for me, and it hangs on me like a sickness.

I remember we went to brunch the other week and my friend paid and I said, put your bank details in the group and we'll all transfer you.

But he didn't.

And I think about it every day.

It seems like you don't like owing people.

That's exactly what it is.

Yeah.

I don't like feeling indebted to people because I don't know what I meant to do to pay them back.

Right.

If he wanted you to pay him back, he would have put his bank details in the picture.

The fact he hasn't means he doesn't want to.

The other thing that I find particularly, you know, when you're an adult and you're both working days and jobs, it can feel really petty to go, let's split the bill.

If it's like with one close friend, right?

So do you ever do that thing like, I'll get it.

You get the next one because it's just easier.

Yes.

But then I have the tab in my head and I've got one friend in particular where I'm like, no, they've got it so many times.

And then I feel sick because he's got two little kids and a mortgage and that kind of thing.

And it just, I would rather go into every situation, divide it up and then leave and carry none of the guilt.

I have one more question before we ask the out loud is what they think.

And that is when you go out to dinner as an adult or have a meal with your parents, who pays and when does it?

If it changes, when does it change?

Like, Holland Clare.

I remember the moment it changed.

I used to love it.

I used to love it when they would pay for everything and they don't anymore.

And sometimes I'll be it because when they come to visit, my parents obviously live in England.

If I don't know when they come, we'll nearly always go for one posh meal because we are all quite foodie people.

We like that.

So we'll choose one fancy restaurant for one celebration.

And it used to be amazing when they just would pick it up and now they always insist on splitting and I get upset.

And then I remember that I'm 50 years old.

It's time for our best and worst moments of the week.

We've had a bit of a talking to ourselves about this segment because it's getting a little bit long, a little bit depressing.

So we're going to try to keep it bright and breezy.

Worse things can be quite small.

And this week, I have quite a small, worse thing.

Last week, Clare's worst thing was climate change.

It was too much.

This week, mine is that I am biting my nails too much.

My fingers too much and they are bleeding.

And that is always like the canary down the mind shaft of my mental health and my stress levels.

And I have started to have to use stop and grow.

Oh, I know that.

I'm almost a 52 year old woman and I'm using stop and grow.

I reckon mine are worse.

That taste of my teenage is.

We need to take a photo of our nails and post the out louders.

Look at mine.

I think they're worse.

I got bleeding fingers.

They're so bad.

So that's my worst.

My best is that I have been really creatively fulfilled this week.

I'm working on a new podcast that I'm certainly not hosting, but I was guest on about fashion.

It's called Nothing to Wear.

It's launching very soon.

And you'll be shocked to know I've been having so much fun with the host Lee Campbell and our producer M who is also our producer on out loud.

Because you know when women say I've got nothing to wear, it means I've got nothing for who I need to be today.

So you can have a closet full of clothes, but have nothing to wear.

So it's going to be all about helping women, you know, enjoy getting dressed again.

And we've been interviewing experts and can I play you the trailer?

Listen to this.

I don't know what to wear.

I have nothing.

Nothing suitable.

I have nothing to wear.

Swimmers for my big boobs.

A formal wedding in February heat.

I just want to be an active Wemfrey mum.

Don't judge me, but I'm over it.

What even is smart casual in 2023?

Okay, what's a capsule wardrobe and do I need it?

All these questions answered and more.

Nothing to wear.

The podcast for your wardrobe.

I'm just checking you haven't had me on just because of scheduling.

Or me and Holly will be on the podcast later.

101 ways with active wear.

My worst is, you know, one of those moments when a mirror is held up to you,

you weren't expecting and you're like, oh, I'm a punish.

I really am.

This happened to me this week.

So Brent and I were getting some extra dog training for Tuna, our dog.

She's a very good girl.

I don't want anyone to think that she isn't a good girl,

but she could do with some improvements.

So we've got this dog trainer who came around and he told us we should really

work on our voices the way that we talk to her.

So he calls it when she's done something wrong, he calls it angry dad.

So, you know, voice.

And when you want her to come and you're encouraging, he calls it girly voice.

And so we had this session and it was fine.

And then he leaves and then Brent looks at me and he looks at me like he's a bit

worried about something.

And I was like, what?

And he goes, I knew you wouldn't like that girly voice thing.

He's like, I knew you'd be offended about it.

You're going to talk to me about it for 10 minutes about how he shouldn't call it

girly voice.

And I was like, I hadn't actually thought of that.

But that is an insight into what a punish you think I am.

My feminism at my railing at the patriarchy.

And I was like, babe, I didn't even notice girly voice is fine.

And he's like, oh, thank God.

That's so good.

Oh my God.

And my best.

It's a very simple, it's a glimmer.

You know, we've been talking about glimmers, which are those little things that

happen in your day that fill you up.

The other day I was driving Matilda somewhere and on a sort of country-ish road,

but a proper like two lane wide country road.

And all the cars came to a stop.

And I was annoyed because I was like, I've got to get into this place at this time.

And why are all the cars coming to a stop on this road where there's no traffic?

Like I live somewhere, there are no traffic lights.

And then what I realized was two lanes of traffic going both ways had stopped to

lead an echidna across the road.

And we all just watched this because it's sort of a kidney season.

City people, you wouldn't know.

And they're so slow.

The echidnas are active.

And this cute little echidna just want, just take it it's time.

It's not bothered about the lines of cars.

Everybody's just stopped.

No problem.

Big tradey guy was the one who got out of his truck and stopped all the cars.

The little echidna just totals across the street, goes off into the scrub,

and we all slowly got moving again.

And I turned to Matilda and I was like, people are good.

And it was just one of those little moments in life where you just go, oh.

I love seeing echidnas in the wild.

They're very cute.

They're little feet.

My worst of the week is, so out loud is probably know by this point that life

admin is mostly my worst.

If anybody wanted an update, I have not got my rug.

I think it got returned to the shop because I just didn't get it.

Anyway, my life admin issue this week is that I tried to do my tax.

We're in September.

I think that's pretty good effort.

Like it actually hasn't been like a full year tried to do my tax.

Can't do my tax because I remembered that a few years ago,

someone tried to steal my identity.

And so my number has been compromised and like my MyGov account has been compromised

and I've been trying to solve this issue for literal years.

And I call them and I say, excuse me, could you unlock my account?

I am me.

Yeah.

I can prove that I am me.

And they say.

Was it Jesse that stole your identity?

Well, apparently according to my accountant, there are so many Clare Stephens'

so that could also be the issue.

But I was so annoyed because I was like, I tried to do the thing

and now I've got more admin.

So when they stole it, did they steal it to like use your credit card or?

I don't think so.

Right.

So it just was like a technical.

Yes.

And maybe it was one of those stolen identity things where like,

they were trying to get my passport or something like that,

like something quite high level.

Maybe I'm part of a bloody program.

Maybe I'm a criminal.

I don't know.

I think pretty soon you'll be selling me Bitcoin on Instagram.

If I see your face, I'll let you know.

That's my biggest fear.

That's my biggest fear that my account's doing that.

And I don't know.

But my best really counteracts it because my best thing of the week is donuts.

And during pregnancy, I've had weird cravings for foods I enjoyed as a child.

So like, you know, Tina wafers, like those wafers that are like strawberry,

chocolate and vanilla.

I'll have a packet of them be like, oh my God, like these make me so happy.

And then a few months ago, I discovered like the humble donut that I have forgotten.

Like a cinnamon one or an iced one?

No, actually chocolate.

Actually chocolate icing.

Chocolate icing?

Yes.

With sprinkles?

Yes, with sprinkles.

As I eat my donuts, I shared a thing on Instagram yesterday about how in Uber Eats,

my most common search is just donut.

And it's just donut.

And it's very sad.

But as I eat the donut, I just think this is so clever because it's not cake,

but it's a little bit cake.

And it's chocolate and it's just everybody needs to just have a donut

and really enjoy the experience.

But I'm very specific.

I hate any icing.

It's got to just be cinnamon, preferably hot.

Donut King cinnamon donuts are elite.

There isn't a donut King near me and that has become an issue.

I've got a recommendation before we go,

but I'm sure it's actually from all of us because I know we have all read this book.

But I was lucky enough to read it when I was on holiday in Malaysia earlier this year.

I literally couldn't put it down.

It's Sally Hepworth's new book, Darling Girls.

It came out this week.

Now, I know all the out louders are savvy and they know that Sal is a friend of the show.

In fact, if you follow Mia on Instagram, you would know that yesterday she was over at

Mia's house helping you grandma.

Is that right, Mia?

It was.

We are recording this show early today because I'm going and doing a bit of an

in conversation with Sal at Dimx about her book.

But I have to tell you that that is not why we're recommending it because this was so good.

Her books are good, right?

But I think this one is one of her absolute best.

One of the reasons for it is particularly the first half of this book is really creepy.

It's about these three women who when they were young girls were fostered by this rather

mysterious woman in this mysterious house and it sort of follows their various memories

and what had happened and a mystery that has unfolded and brought them all together in adulthood.

It is so good and it is so creepy and it is so page turning.

I loved it.

Mia, you don't like suspense, but I bet you liked it too.

Yeah, the characters were just so compelling.

Super, super quick, pacey plot turner.

Loved it.

Sally's books are ones that I love because I read in like a day or two because I can't

put them down and the twist at the end of this book, she just pulls it off everybody.

Out Loud as she's not a New York Times bestselling author for nothing.

No.

The lady knows her stuff.

Yeah, she is.

So it's called Darling Girls.

It's in all good book shops now and of course remember, Out Loud as if you're a subscriber,

you get to discount a booktopia.

So go buy Sally's book.

If you're looking for something else to listen to right now because you're not going to hear

us on Monday, it's a long weekend.

On yesterday's subscriber episode, we talked about the new doco series called The Supermodels

and Holly and I schooled one class Stevens on what a supermodel was and just a little

spoiler alert when she tried to say, I've watched Australia's next top model.

I know models.

Oh, some glances were thrown.

Anyway, we had a lot to say and we'll put a link to that episode in the show notes.

Thank you for listening to Australia's number one news and pop culture show.

The episode is produced by Emma Linkers.

The assistant producer is Tali Blackman with audio production by Madeleine Juana.

We'll see you next week.

Bye.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.