Mamamia Out Loud: Why Mothers Don't Deserve Extra Points

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Mamma Mia Out Loud!

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud, what women are talking about on Wednesday the 26th

of July.

I'm Holly Wainwright.

I'm Mia Freigman.

And I'm Claire Stenens.

And on the show today, whether you're a Matilda or the creator of the biggest movie in the

world, should you get extra credit if you're also a mother?

Also, the biggest celebrity gossip on the internet lives in fear of being unmasked,

but does she kind of deserve it?

And one more question.

Would you let your best friend track your phone?

It seems a generation unfamiliar with privacy?

So yes.

But first, Twitter users are waking up to find that that little blue bird has flown the

coop.

In case you missed it, Elon Musk is euthanizing Twitter.

I'm really confused when I open a site and everything about it has changed, Mia.

Well, you've just revealed yourself as someone who still goes on Twitter, which is going

to be used against you.

Look, since buying Twitter for US $44 billion last year, which is kind of chump change for

the richest man in the world, lots of people have claimed that Elon Musk is killing Twitter.

And this week, he confirmed that he actually is.

He's rebranding the social media platform as X, which sounds 50% sinister and 50%

porn.

It's also very like black.

It's black.

So the logo, it looks like it's for men and tough men.

Yes.

Which is the way he's kind of been taking the platform.

A new logo was unveiled, as you say, it's a white X on a black background.

It looks like someone just made it in like not even Canva.

It looks like clip art.

Like paint.

Yeah.

Microsoft paint.

And the person with the worst job in the world.

And the chief executive officer, Linda Yaccarino, who's newly appointed, tweeted on Sunday, although

I don't know if it's called tweeting anymore.

No, well, what is it called?

Okay.

Here's some word salad for you.

X is the future state of unlimited interactivity, centered in audio, video messaging, payments

banking, creating a global marketplace for ideas, goods, services, and opportunities.

I'm concentrating really hard and I don't know what you're saying.

So a lot of words to say nothing.

Yeah.

It's just put a lot of nouns in one place.

And then hashtag goodbye Twitter was trending on the platform.

It's interesting because a lot of people said I had trouble leaving Twitter, but I will

have no trouble leaving X.

So I'm not sure whether Elon Musk is being very erratic as he is known to be.

Or if this was always part of his plan to, he's stated quite openly, he wants to create

a super app that does everything a little bit like WeChat in China, where people not

just do their social media, but also their banking and their shopping and kind of everything.

What I don't get is walking away from a brand, even though Twitter has like some negative

brand connotations.

It's also one of the few brands that has become so much part of our life that we use it as

a verb and a noun.

And like, we always say to each other, oh, you should tweet that after we say something

like a bit stupid.

What are you going to say?

So you should X that.

And like, that's a big swing to just go like we're changing that all together, right?

He seems to be very reactive after threads, like he wants to do something to point a flag

in the ground.

And I just saw this hilarious video, I guess a priority for him is changing the logo like

on the building.

And so there were all these construction people taking down the Twitter bird and putting

up the X, but he didn't get permission from the council.

And then the police came and I'm like, this guy doesn't even know how to do the most basic

elements of running a business.

I'm very scared.

If you're kicking professional goals, literally, in some cases, and you're also a parent, should

you get extra credit?

Is your parental status even a little bit relevant to your work life?

This conversation was sparked up last week when, as we mentioned in Friday's show, a

commentator made this comment about the brilliant Katrina Gorry, who's known as many Michael

Matilda's fans in the game against Ireland.

And the smile says it all from Katrina Gorry.

And certainly motherhood has not blunted her competitive instincts.

That's for sure.

That comment really pissed a few people off.

What?

We don't think mothers are competitive and aggressive.

Has David Beshear ever met a mother?

I wanted to ask.

But also, it started people talking about whether the fact that Minnie is a mother is relevant

at all.

Certainly her mission to get back in a Matilda's jersey after having her baby Harper, who's

nearly two now, has been quite a big part of her narrative.

Like it's part of the Matilda's documentary, and it forms quite a big storyline in interviews

and lots of press around the Matildas.

Virginia Tapscott wrote on Mamma Mia about that.

She wrote, a mother returning to elite soccer less than two years after giving birth isn't

just noteworthy, it's impossible to ignore.

It's an incredible physical feat that no man will ever lay claim to.

If we want to see mothers crushing stereotypes, if we want to increase the visibility of motherhood,

if we want to empower mothers, we must allow sports commentators to give credit where it's

due.

And I agree with that, I think, broadly.

But then another story about an incredible woman made me question myself a bit this week.

After seeing the Barbie movie, as everybody did, I went on the inevitable Google afterwards

and I discovered that its creator, Greta Gerwig, has a four month old baby, as well as a four

year old, two boys.

Which means, by any calculation, that Gerwig was pregnant and then a new mum during what

must have been unquestionably the most intense work period of her life.

Danielle Cohen wrote in the cut, am I to understand that while Gerwig's mind was hard

at work germinating the Barbie movie, her body was creating a whole ass newborn child.

Are you telling me that Gerwig is the living embodiment of having it all, proof that women

can do anything we put our minds to, a walking, talking, birthing manifestation of the feminist

Barbie ethos.

In fact, Gerwig had her last baby just when she brought out little women.

I want to know what we think about this.

Is it relevant that Greta Gerwig is a mother at the top of her professional game?

Is it relevant that Minnie is a mother as she plays for the Matilda's?

Of course it's relevant.

I found myself doing something I'm not proud of when I found out that Greta Gerwig had

a three month old.

My first reaction was, oh, she's just been on that global press tour.

I wonder if she left the baby at home.

Maybe that's unfair.

Maybe it's not unfair.

But then my next thought was, I felt really sad for her, which is a ridiculous thing to

say about the most successful director on the planet in this moment, who has broken all

box office records.

There are times when the greatest opportunities of your professional life do coincide with

really important moments in the rest of your life.

Of course she had to lean into this now.

Why would you not want to?

Going and making sure that this movie is a success is very important.

She's been heavily invested in it for many years now.

It's just a case of really difficult timing because I loved that sort of immersion in

the baby bubble of those few months and she's not been able to do that.

I don't think she needs a tiny violin, but I think it's worth acknowledging that that

is incredibly difficult and it is more difficult than just getting on a plane or leaning into

your work or when you don't have a baby.

We don't know exactly what that balance has looked like.

As you say, Holly, she was pregnant while she was working on this project, but you can

imagine that the way that this whole process works is that it's all filmed and then she's

pregnant perhaps when all the edit, like obviously she's the director, so she's still working

on it.

She's been involved in every element of this.

The other interesting point to make is that her partner, Noah Bomback, also works with

her.

They're both working on the movie and the baby at the same time, I guess.

I was initially disappointed and I said it on this podcast in the commentary from David

Bashir about Katrina Gorry.

My instant reaction was, I don't know why motherhood would blunt someone's competitive

instincts and I've never heard that said about Federer, for example, when he's on the tennis

court.

Oh, but I just don't think that's fair, like we've got to stop pretending the experience

of being a mother and giving birth is the same as being a father.

It's not the same.

And that's what I thought when I read Virginia Tapp Scott's article, there was an excellent

article in Women's Agenda basically arguing if we don't acknowledge the toll that motherhood

takes on a woman physically and emotionally, aren't we just erasing women's experiences

and denying our challenges.

And interestingly, when I did start to read more about it, Gorry's teammates have acknowledged

how she has undergone a transformation since having her baby and coming back to the sport.

The Matilda's vice captain said she came back from her pregnancy levels and levels ahead

of the player she was before.

You just don't ever expect that to happen.

And I think as somebody who hasn't had a baby, I think that's a really important narrative

to know that for people who haven't had kids yet, your best years physically, professionally,

socially can be post kids.

And we're seeing that with Katrina Gorry and we're seeing with Greta Gerwig that it can

be mid kids.

I think these are two very different things, right?

There is no question that sports people whose body is literally their tool coming back from

something so physically demanding and all consuming.

And as Virginia Tapps got made the point in the article, your bones are moving literally,

you know, like we completely dismiss and rightly so have kind of put out a fashion the idea

of bouncing back after a baby.

Of course you're not.

But for these women, getting back to a competitive level to play sport in the highest elite level

in the world is an extraordinary feat.

And I'm all for like clap, clap, clap.

But why am I so interested and impressed to know that Greta Gerwig had a baby?

She's not a professional sports person.

She didn't have to like train back to an amazing level.

I think it's interesting information, but I worry about us making it really relevant information.

I think it's relevant because she's given birth to her second child and it seems a similar

thing with her first child at the peak of her career.

Like no one has ever been more aware of the name Greta Gerwig.

She's never had more power in her entire career or more success than she has this week.

And the fact that she's probably either breastfeeding or caring for a newborn has just given birth.

I think that is really interesting.

And I think that I've always pushed back and I know you have too holly on the narrative

of bouncing back.

And so I think that it makes me have even more esteem for her.

I'm a little mad.

Hashtag not all mothers about it though, because I also worry about us lionising and putting

on pedestals, women who do push through.

It's like, remember, Jesse Stevens, if you're listening, what have you done?

That's what I mean.

And like the last three days.

But remember that thing about like Roxy Justenko was sending emails two minutes after her baby

was born.

I remember reading that Elle McPherson was doing sit-ups like in the maternity room.

And I think that it's very important to note that not all mothers are or should be in the

head or body space to be straight back to working at the top of the game the minute

they pop out a baby.

Some people need and they also don't have the level of support that someone like a Greta

Gerwig would obviously have.

So I don't want us to lionise and erase.

Like this is what's interesting about this is we're saying we don't want to erase motherhood

in terms of recognising what an amazing feed it is for Katrina Gorry or Lydia Lassie or

whoever to come back from carrying a baby.

But we do kind of want to erase motherhood because having a baby should not make you

pause your career in any way.

Oh no, it should.

And let me be clear.

As I said at the start, I feel sorry for her.

Like I don't go, wow, she's got a baby and this thing like I can guarantee that there

have been a lot of tears behind the scenes and a lot of angst and a lot of guilt and

a lot of really difficult decisions and a lot of things she's missed out on by flying

around the world and promoting this film and doing all the press that she has to do.

I don't envy her at all.

But I think-

But I think-

As a woman who hasn't had a baby yet, do you go, oh my God, I don't have any excuse

to pause if a greater girl can keep pushing through?

Well, two things.

One, I think we should be able to celebrate how new this is and the fact that it wasn't

that long ago that when you had a baby, you left the workforce.

Like that was just the assumption.

Not everybody did.

Always putting my hand up.

Hashtag not all women.

No, no, no.

But like for example, my grandmother's generation and before, like the idea was you didn't come

back and there are a lot of employers.

If you worked in the public service, you're often not allowed to have jobs like teaching

after you got married.

I know, but as I will always say, working class mothers have always worked.

Yes, but there were significant disadvantages professionally to having a child and this

is quite inspirational in that some of those barriers have been overcome.

However, my reason for being a bit cautious about this, and I think this was my gut instinct

when I heard the Katrina Gorry comment, are we saying that certain accomplishments

are more exceptional because they're accomplished by a mother?

And then where does that leave people who don't have kids or choose not to have kids?

Do I get extra points for making it into what?

I mean, not so much now, but when my kids were tiny, do I get extra points at work

because I made it into the office, even though I also, before I did that, fed two children,

dressed two children, dropped them off at daycare, but do I?

But then how about women who are struggling to conceive or choose not to have children?

And it's like, so are their accomplishments not as exciting

because they're not also doing this other thing?

No, but I think that it is empirically true that it is more challenging

to get to work when you have to do a whole other job before you get there.

It doesn't mean that people who don't have children have no other problems

and have no other things that are difficult in their life and live a charmed existence

and can't be stressed also in the morning.

I think it's really unfair to have that work be invisible and unacknowledged.

It doesn't necessarily mean you get a free pass,

but I don't think it costs us anything to go, that was hard.

And I know from experience back to the competitive instinct,

most of us aren't professional athletes, but I know that I lost my ambition completely

after I had each of my babies for a period of time.

So here's observation that a competitive instinct hasn't been blunted.

Well, for me, that was true, because ambition is similar to being competitive.

I know, but I also know lots of women and myself included in this

who was more ambitious after having children rather than less,

because I don't mean in that you always talk about that just very specific breastfeeding phase.

But I mean in general, because and this is what I was talking to someone in our office about yesterday,

you're like, if I'm leaving my family, if I'm doing all these things,

it's got to be worth it, it's got to be great, it's got to be something I really want to do.

And it often is a point where, and I think Katrina Gorrie kind of talks about that,

is that it's got to be something I really want to do.

Yeah, that's one one reading of ambition.

My interpretation is more some people don't want to work at all after they have a baby.

A lot of my friends who have little babies have said there is something it awakens in you,

like a new level of power or fierceness or I don't give a fuck that happens when you become a mother.

Because you're like, I just pushed a baby out of my badge or it got taken out of my stomach

and I can frickin do anything.

And I wonder if in that way women can be galvanized by having a baby and therefore become more competitive.

Let us know what you think out loud is.

Leave us a voice note or send us an email.

You know where we are.

We're on the Out Loudest Facebook group or on Out Loud at mamamia.com.au.

I came across an article this week in Cosmopolitan called

There's a Dark Side to the Online Gossip Mill.

I would know I'm the brains behind Dermoy.

For those who aren't aware, Dermoy is an anonymous Instagram account that publishes celebrity gossip.

It has 1.9 million followers.

It started as a fashion focused by the way.

That's a lot. I might be one of them.

Are you? Yeah, definitely.

Everyone I know is one.

It started as a fashion focused page and then during the pandemic,

the account asked followers to share stories about celebrities.

It would then post screenshots of the direct messages that people had sent in

with stories of celebrity encounters and shared them for all the followers to see and it's grown from there.

It's now turned into a fully fledged brand and business.

There's a newsletter, a novel released earlier this year.

Well, not really a novel, but it was called a non please.

A podcast and collaborations with other media.

Importantly, the bio of the Dermoy Instagram account says,

some statements made on this account have not been independently confirmed.

This account does not claim information published is based on fact.

So the a non please that you mentioned,

the way it works is that you can email to this email address gossip.

A non please is when people say don't don't know, obviously.

And they just literally screenshot it.

And share it.

It is just the most beautiful.

Do you think they make editorial decisions about like not that one?

Yes, this one, like that sounds too outrageous.

That one's not about someone anyone cares about.

They've said that there are certain things that they steer away from.

There's a lot of things that I come across that are litigious

that have to do with celebrities.

And I pass those off.

I pass those off to real reporters.

So some recent stories from Dermoy have been

the Kylie Jenner and Timothy Chalamet dating story that came from them.

Jennifer Coolidge, Jennifer Coolidge apparently trashes hotel rooms.

There's just a bit of an anonymous gossip.

I know Courtney and Kim aren't speaking.

They are fighting.

So sounds legit.

And euphoria is getting cancelled because it's just chaos on set.

So it's like the New Gossip magazine.

And you know, when you read it, there's a good chance that what you're reading

isn't true, but it's just so juicy.

And I think there's a real ethical dilemma with that

because you don't know which ones are true and which ones aren't.

The article I read was about being Dermoy and anxieties around getting doxxed

and how personal safety is there.

Who is the person? Is it a shade?

And also what's doxxed?

Doxxed means having your personal information outpublished.

Outed online.

You mean people gossiping about you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so the person who runs it is like, oh, my gosh, like that could ruin my career.

Because she's anonymous?

Yes.

And she in this article, she's like, my dad told his friend

and I didn't speak to him for a week.

The person who runs Dermoy says their primary concern is safety

because the internet and especially Instagram can be a really scary place.

Like the Swifties, for example, they're not happy with her.

No, no, I read this with my mouth hanging open in shock

because I couldn't get over the irony.

Being so scared about what people on the internet might find out about you

when you have built a business sharing unverified information about celebrities.

I think it generally about similar gossip accounts and podcasts.

There's ones in Australia.

Holly, you exploited celebrities for a living.

Do you think it's fair for Dermoy to be concerned about their own safety?

Oh, yikes.

See, that's a really good question.

Holly worked in gossip mags out loud as well.

You did.

When I did work in gossip mags, actually, one day when I was working at Women's Day,

the chaser did a stunt where they sent paparazzi to stake out the editor's house.

So this is not a new idea.

This kind of like, you want to do it to us, we'll do it to you kind of thing.

But I think it's really interesting because Dermoy is just an evolution

of what we've always been doing.

And is it grubby? Is it wrong? Yes.

Can you legislate for what people are interested in? No.

People like to know what public people do in private.

It's not nice, but they do.

And when I worked in gossip mags, we had sources.

Some of them were actual sources, like family members sometimes,

like people very close to people and some of them were bullshit made up sources.

Some of them were the celebrities themselves.

Yes, definitely.

And in the US in particular, it's a whole industry.

Like the sources are security guards and doorman and the receptionist

in a medical building and waiters and people in clean hotel rooms.

And they supplement their probably pretty crappy wages

by selling gossip to the tabloids.

This is just that, except the people who are sending their stories

to Dumois are not getting paid, I assume.

So the motivation is just like, does that make it better or worse?

I know something.

But I think it's really obviously ethically dangerous

because even if gossip seems a little harmless,

it can entirely change a reputation.

I often think about James Corden and how Claire and Jesse ruined his

reputation on Council when they widely surface

that gossip about him on a plane, not being very nice to his mother

of his baby in first class or whatever.

Nobody knows if that's true, but that one anecdote has the power

to completely change the way you view that person.

Those kind of bits of gossip that aren't necessarily someone's cheating

or somebody's, you know, got a drug habit or whatever,

but are just more like they're not very nice, actually the most damaging ones.

And that's kind of crazy.

What's interesting about Dumois is that the business model is very tenuous.

So unlike Perez Hilton, the gossip columnist from TMZ, it was his own brand.

He started in the early 2000s.

You know, that was more like a gossip magazine, but online.

It was sort of the first one like that.

But he sold advertising and that was a business model.

He sold advertising around it.

Dumois, obviously you can't sell advertising on Instagram,

but the Dumois brand has worldwide recognition

and means something.

It means probably what Perez Hilton used to mean then and what Women's Day

or New Idea used to mean in the 90s, a byline for gossip.

So the way that she's tried to monetize that is by writing a book

and having a podcast and selling merch and stuff like that.

But she's never going to be able to be credible because the stuff that she publishes

celebrities are always deciding whether they're going to sue or not.

And I imagine she probably doesn't publish anything about Harry and Meghan.

Yeah.

Oh, she was talking.

Actually, I listened to the most recent episode of the podcast

and she was talking about Harry and Meghan and she said that she does have

confirmation that Harry is not living in their house in Montecito.

He is living elsewhere in LA.

The idea that she is anonymous and you're right, Claire, that when you read this

piece, it's kind of infuriating how she's so shitty if her friends

like let anything slip and how very dare they.

And I had to cut off a whole friend group because they weren't being discreet

enough and you're a bit like, babe, come on.

I also want to remember a few weeks ago, we talked about chaos as a publicity strategy

by holding back your identity.

That means that one day you can reveal it.

So you've always got it in your back pocket, which might be quite a good thing to do.

It's hard for people to sue you, though.

Because there's theories.

Definitely hard of people to sue you.

There's theories that there's like a few people behind it and that some of them

are famous people and that's how they've got certain intel.

But you don't have to be a famous person.

You can just leak to them.

The three of us can leak to them.

Like if I'm Taylor Swift's publicist, I can leak.

And the person running the account can send themselves a message and then

screenshot it and then post it and then you've got a story.

So do you think, class Stevens, that she should be doxxed because she's made

the famous people's lives really hard?

She should have her life made hard too.

I'm quite a moral absolutist in that, like, I don't think you ever do something

bad to somebody no matter what they've done to you.

So I don't think that there's anything to be gained from that.

However, this really did get me thinking about this whole machine of gossip.

And I just read it and I went, I don't understand that person's motivation.

I don't understand how you get up in the morning and think I am going to make

somebody's life a mess.

That's not what she thinks she's doing.

So we've all shared gossip, the hit you get from feeling like you're telling

someone something interesting that they don't know yet that elevates your

status in your social tribe.

And that's what this is, really.

I want to know from out louders, be honest, do you read this stuff or are

you morally pure and like Claire pretends to be, you can only really

criticise this stuff hard if you do not consume it.

If you're clicking on those stories, if you're buying those magazines in the

old days, as I was in fact creating them, you can't really...

I don't know.

I think that's a very capitalist argument that is like, it's the consumer's fault.

Whereas I just don't think it should exist in the first place.

And I think with the internet and with kind of the democratisation of

information and the fact that there's far more that this person can publish.

And with 1.9 million followers, the impact is so quick and so swift.

I think there's got to be some kind of way to police this stuff.

My intention is to entertain and build a community.

And that's why I love.

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Lots of families use tracking apps to keep tabs on their kids.

And we've discussed this on the show before that Holly finds this really creepy.

However, now people are using apps to track their friends and Holly's losing her shit.

The app find my iPhone debuted in 2009 and it was designed to use GPS data

so that users who might be quite forgetful could track their iPhones.

Very handy, very clever.

Find my friends arrive two years later and that's what the app became.

And it was marketed towards anxious parents also like me who wanted to keep tabs

on where their children were very effective.

Now, in our family, we actually use an app called Family360 incredibly helpful.

It actually works better than find my friends for keeping track of the family.

But in an article that appeared in nine newspapers this week,

it says that a lot of people are not just tracking family members.

They're using it to track their friends.

The article details some of the different ways that people are using it.

Some people use it to track their friends when they're going on dates

with people that they've met on dating.

That's sensible to make sure that that gets the ticket.

Others might use it to check their friends have arrived home safely after a late night out.

Holly, do you approve of that?

Yes.

Yes, she approves of that.

With consent.

Actually, I think I approve of that more than the date.

I just was thinking about the date and I was thinking,

what if you went home with the person and you necessarily want your friend to know

that you didn't, you turned it off and they'd panic.

And anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole.

Holly's slut shaming her non-existent friends.

One person uses find my friends with about 15 people, including her best friend.

And she says, we use it to stalk each other to see if we went on shopping trips without each other.

Now I'm upset.

I have a personal perspective on this, which is that I hate, hate, hate.

I feel like you're doing some secretive shit, Holly.

This is the thing is I'm not doing anything weird.

Sure.

But I hate the idea of people knowing where I am all the time.

It just really upsets me.

And I was thinking about it when we were preparing for this.

I'm like, why?

Like, why does it upset me so much?

The idea that you might know that I always stop at Heathcote Makers on the way

and I drive back down the coast, like nearly every single time, probably this afternoon.

Why do I care whether you know that?

It's my business.

Get out of my business, right?

I'm a grown up person who can do what I want when I want, go where I want.

And I don't have to be accountable to everybody.

But then I think there's like a bigger thing, which is so many people

are not uncomfortable with this.

I'm obviously a bit weird in that I'm so uncomfortable with the idea of tracking.

It makes sense with teenagers.

It makes sense a lot of ways.

But the idea of my partner always knowing where I am, all those things.

I just find it really uncomfortable, but lots of people don't.

And I wonder if this when I was reading this story, I was like, you co-dependent weirdos.

No offense, co-dependent weirdos that we've pulled down the curtain of privacy

so hard and maybe because, you know, a generation has very much grown up

with nothing is private, what you're eating for your lunch, what you wear.

And I do all that too.

Don't get me wrong, you know, show you pictures of my vegetables, for God's sake.

But like we've pulled down the veil of privacy so hard that it has no value

and the intimacy is seen as I have no secrets from you.

Whereas the idea of my friend texting me and going, why are you in Mecca?

Like I would, oh, I hate it when people call you and they say, what are you doing?

I'm like, none of your business.

See, in this article, there's a guy who says that he lives in New York

and has 47 friends on find my friends.

And my question is, how do you have 47 friends?

But he tracks them because he's like, you know, it's so hard to just

spontaneously, you know, plan something.

So if I see someone's nearby, I'll ask them if they want to get a drink.

And I'm like, that is my single worst nightmare.

I may be in your suburb.

But if I have not contacted you, I do not want to see you.

That's true.

It's like this idea that like we all owe everybody like, oh, well, you're there.

So why don't you?

It's like, no.

So you're accountable to not have Snapchat home.

Matilda does.

And this is the other thing is that so Snapmaps, which is when everyone can see

where they are, this is I talk to her about it all the time, too.

I mean, there are obvious issues with that, right?

Which is like, everybody's around at Betty's house.

Why aren't I around at Betty's house?

But even just on a more basic level than that, I tell her all the time,

you are your own person and you don't owe everybody your whereabouts

and your actions every day, not even me.

She doesn't even owe me that.

As long as she's safe, I do not have the right to know what she is doing all the time.

God, you're the weirdo.

This came up.

I had an Apple Watch and everybody was sharing their exercise data.

Oh, that was such a funny deed.

And that was, I did it for about a week and then thought, wait, no,

I don't want anybody to see my exercise data.

So the only person I had it with was my dad because he's not going to be upset by that.

And then somehow we were checking each other's data

and we ended up doing the Find My iPhone, Find My Friends thing.

And so he is the only person whose location I have and he has my location.

And it's quite cute because he will call me just middle of the day

and be like, what are you doing in Parramatta?

Oh my God.

Like, what are you doing?

I'm like, hey, dad.

Yeah, I'm here because I have jury duty.

Like, that's an interesting conversation.

But I would absolutely love to track Jesse and Luna.

I feel like it would save time because what you were saying, Holly,

about people calling being like, what are you doing?

That's me and Jesse a million times a day.

We're just not like technically savvy or organized enough to do that.

Maybe we should put like an actual little thing on Luna's head.

An air, what do you call it?

Like an air tag.

An air tag.

So we know where she is.

In a little onesie.

Yeah.

So we know where she is.

Holly, I think maybe you are a spy.

I know.

Holly's doing shady stuff.

Don't you feel the need to be allowed to do your own private business

and not justify your actions to people at all times

when you're wandering around Westfield or whatever.

Yeah, I do.

But also my kids just call me constantly.

Like the thing with being a helicopter parent

is that we create helicopter children.

So it's like, where are you?

Where are you?

And I mean, my children also, the part that I don't like,

even my children being able to see me, is that when they say,

where are you?

And I say, I'm almost there because I'm meant to be picking them up from sport

or whatever.

And they're like, you're lying.

That's the other thing.

You're 20 minutes away.

You're in the office.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It makes you a little too accountable, doesn't it?

But what about friends though?

Because kids are different, right?

I think we could try and justify that.

But what about other people in your life?

Like, do you mind if people know where you are

and what you're doing all the time?

I just always forget to check it.

Like, you know, the idea of tracking where all my friends are

or even one friend just feels like more meant to load to me.

But it is funny thinking whole about the time in the 80s

when everyone lost their minds at the idea of the Australia card,

which is going to be a card that people had, which had like,

I don't know, their name on it and maybe their date of birth.

And it was like, no, I will not share that information with the government.

And now it's like cookies 20 times a day.

And we're all being tracked all the time.

No worries, cookies.

Like, if Mark Zuckerberg knows where I am,

surely my closest friends can know where I am.

You've got a Reco, Mia.

I do. My Reco is a bra.

I'm wearing it right now.

And it's by a lady startup brand called Nala, N-A-L-A.

I think we've recommended their undies and bras before.

But this is a specific recommendation for their strapless bra.

It comes in like a coffee color and in black.

And I actually don't wear it as a strapless bra.

You can see I actually wear it with its straps,

but the straps are detachable.

It's underwire.

It's not padded, but it just gives you a really good shape under...

You have got a good shape.

Yeah, under jumpers and under t-shirts.

I find that often some of those sort of t-shirt bras and things,

they're too padded.

And when, because my boobs are big already, I don't want padding.

I hate padding.

No.

I have not done padding in 10 years.

It just makes me feel like I'm two more cup sizes bigger.

It's $49 and they do great inclusive marketing and sizing.

Highly recommend.

We'll put a link in the show notes.

If you're looking for something else to listen to,

on yesterday's Subscribe episode,

we hosted an emergency meeting and we took a trip to Barbie Land,

where we unpacked the film the world cannot get enough of.

It's full of spoilers,

so make sure you've seen the Barbie film first.

Otherwise, go and watch it.

Then come join us.

But it is the debrief that you need afterwards.

Or if you don't want to go and see the film

and you just want to hear what all the fuss is about

so you can have an informed opinion.

The things that made Holly cry, etc.

Make sure you check out that episode.

A link will be in the show notes.

Thanks for listening to Australia's number one news and pop culture show.

This episode was produced by Emmeline Gazillas

with audio production by Leah Porges

and the executive producer is Telysa Fazaz.

We'll see you tomorrow.

Bye.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.