The News Agents: Why is Nigel Farage at war with his bank?

Hello news agents, it's Nigel Farage here.

Bet you weren't expecting to hear him today on the news agents.

He has been in the news rather a lot over his banking arrangements and the fact that

Coots have blackballed him and said we don't want you to bank with us any longer.

It initially seemed that it was just a matter of money, but there does seem to have been

a political element to it in that Coots Bank didn't much like Nigel Farage's views and

took decisions accordingly.

So why does this matter beyond a quite rich man not any longer being able to bank with

a very rich bank?

It matters because as Nigel Farage perhaps uniquely can, he has managed to pull and catch

virtually all of the right of centre political establishment and bring them in as part of

this story from the Prime Minister and Home Secretary down.

So on today's episode, what is Nigel Farage playing at?

Welcome to the news agents.

It's John, it's Lewis and later on today's show we're also going to be talking about

another Conservative, this time a Conservative MP who is finding himself in a little bit

of trouble to buy us Elwood, the chair of the Defence Select Committee who has decided

to go on a trip to Afghanistan and then post a video about how great Afghanistan now is.

Yeah, how great it is now it's being ruled by the Taliban.

Yeah, just not so great if you're a woman, we'll be coming to that a little bit later

on.

Let's start with Nigel Farage who has always been a master of communication and the war

he is engaged in with Coots seems to be going in one direction.

I didn't see this one coming this year right, the Farage-Cootz war.

No, exactly and I sort of weighed in a bit on this on Twitter.

Just a bit.

Just a bit.

When it was reported by the BBC that the only reason he had lost his bank account was he

wasn't wealthy enough and I tweeted you must feel a bit of a Charlie if you're Nigel Farage

and you claim that it's all an establishment stitch up that your account's been closed

when it's just you're not rich enough for Coots.

It turns out that actually he did have something of a grounding in his claims that Coots had

closed him down for political reasons and so today I felt I owed him a bit of an apology

and Mr Farage somewhat uncomfortably has been back in touch with us.

Hello news agents.

It's Nigel Farage here.

I want to say a big mega thank you to John Soaple.

I fully accept your apology.

I really genuinely do and thank you and I think for all of us as broadcasters we have

a responsibility here because it is monstrous that anyone's bank account should be closed

down because of their perfectly legal political views but far bigger than that thousands of

businesses all over this country being shut down by the banks every year just because

they operate in cash and I really think if time all of us stood up for the little man

and little woman all the best to all of you.

You can see why he's so big on cameo can't you?

He can deliver a line but the point is you know before this descends into too much of

a joke and sparing John's blushes and actually I think I'm going to go on to actually why

I think you weren't totally off the money actually with regards to this.

I think this is murkier as a narrative of a story than Farage was initially wrong actually

turns out Coots was right.

I think this is murkier than that.

The point of why the sort of narrative of this story has been that as John said initially

Farage posted this video saying Coots or a bank has taken their account away from him

for political reasons.

The BBC is then briefed by Coots that that's not true it's just about the mortgage and

about the fact they didn't have enough money.

Then Farage gets this subject access request which is becoming more and more common where

a person can request the documents that pertain to their file and to themselves from Coots

in this case and he put that out in public or he put it out with the Daily Mail not in

full but a redacted version which basically did in fact seem to indicate that politics

and Farage's reputation and a reputational risk was at play and then just this morning

Coots hit back denying at least part of that saying that decisions about whether or not

to close someone's account are not taken solely solely on the basis of their reputation

and politics and so on.

So it does seem that Coots are accepting that Farage's reputation and the potential for

Farage to be an unpredictable actor let's put it that way was part of their consideration

but they're saying it wasn't the only part.

I suppose if someone's political outlook and it talked about him being xenophobic and

whatever not my views nowhere near my views but if that is part of a reason for denying

someone a bank account when they have engaged in democratic politics and they've tried

to make their influence felt via the ballot box and we could revisit the whole Brexit

argument which I think would be a waste of time but he was a pretty effective campaigner

political campaigner and won vote 52-48 with the help of some others Boris Johnson etc

but he was at the forefront of that to deny a democratic politician a bank account whether

they be from the left or from the right or from the centre if they are on the outside

of democratic politics and want to overturn the state and overturn whatever then fair enough

I just think it's a very dangerous slippery slope that you start creating criteria on

which you can deny somebody a bank account because it becomes incredibly subjective.

That is true and although I do think Coots have questions to answer about this and they've

not been entirely transparent they're not a particularly transparent institution they

are a bank for extremely wealthy people and we can come on to talk about that whilst that

is true I do think we have to be clear about the terms here right and Faragee lied this

a bit he's not being denied a bank account full stop in fact Coots have actually offered

him because it is owned by NatWest which is of course partly owned by all of us the state

they have offered him a NatWest account they haven't offered him any longer a Coots account

it isn't a human right to have a Coots account I mean by definition none of you I would imagine

or very very very few of you and listen to this we'll have a Coots account it is an account

for people with a lot of money now whether he just about had enough money or maybe was

just on the cusp of it maybe that's up for debate but the reason I mean let's be honest

the reason why someone would want a Coots account okay he'd already had an account with them

for a long time so he probably wanted the consistency of it I can totally understand

that but the reason people want a private bank account like that is because Coots is an institution

which can advise them let's put it this way on their tax affairs they can advise them

on how to make the most of their money they offer a whole suite of services the normal bank your

average current account whatever does not offer you so the reason Faragee is annoyed about this

I'm sure he's annoyed for other reasons is because he's losing access to that for whatever reason

but it's not that he's not being given access to a bank account full stop that would clearly

be completely inappropriate because indeed everybody in this country is entitled to a

basic bank account this is a question about whether he's entitled to a very particular

form of bank account which also involves and gives you lots of advantages let's put it that way

but what Nigel Faragee has been able to do with this whole saga is to create a sense

of victimhood persecution persecution which is a fantastic source of support for him and he's

very Trumpian in the way he's done it and he's done it brilliantly and I think it's left Coots

looking slightly exposed and trying to catch up with the narrative and the story and slightly

failing and it has got the centre right of British politics whether it be politicians or the media

salivating coming to the defence and support of Nigel Faragee it's absolutely incredible I'm

going to hold up this today's Daily Telegraph right anyone who's watching this on the video

version of it can see it the Daily Telegraph this sort of august paper of conservative record it's

got Nigel Faragee on the front with a big massive sort of red almost blood-like circle around his

face and the headline that west boss under pressure over Faragee bank scandal and it's not just the

Daily Telegraph you see on the express the mail GB news the kind of wider conservative ecosystem

of opinion absolutely up in arms about it and not just the press politicians up to and including

the prime minister the chancellor of the Exchequer and the home secretary down alongside a suite of

conservative MPs all furious about it now you can have an argument and saying that you know the rules

need to be changed and so on now you can have an argument about who is right whether it's Coots or

whether it's Faragee but the very fact I can't think of possibly the exception of Boris Johnson

I cannot think of a political figure on the right of politics who could have such a profound impact

and could like the sort of pied piper of conservative politics get everyone following them and dancing

to his tune up to and including talking about changing the law changing regulations and so

on and what it reminds me of I mean in a sense this is not new Faragee's been doing this to

conservative politics for the last 10 years he's the most influential conservative with a small

C figure on British politics I think since that you're arguably perhaps Boris Johnson as well

and to me it reminds us of the potential future this guy is going to have I mean if there's a

world where the conservatives go into opposition after the election and perhaps they're much reduced

in number and there's only a few hundred of them as MPs and so on perhaps they're being led by

someone like Zoella Braverman who knows on the right of the party this guy with the perch that

he's got will continue to have extraordinary influence and what he does that is political genius

or nightmarish depending on your viewpoint is that he plays this anti-establishment victim

when no one is more establishment I mean the guy went to Dulwich College posh boys public school

he goes into the world of banking and trading makes a lot of money you know he's the establishment he

epitomizes they probably hang out bloody coot's accounts at Dulwich College and there he is that

this portraying himself as the victim just like Donald Trump does but there is one part of this

my apology was limited for not diminishing or denying that there was any political element to it

there is another claim that he made that I think is absolute baloney is the idea that this was some

kind of establishment stitch up that the establishment located probably somewhere in a bunker in White

Hall an anonymous civil servant has given an order activate the anti-farage campaign and banks across

Britain and lawyers no I'm not you know it's just the stuff of ridiculousness and conspiracy theory

I think that probably given how much ship publicity Nat West and Coots have had as a result of this

they'd probably thought oh my god I wish we'd left this alone I wish we hadn't gone anywhere

near his bank account so if it's an establishment plot it has blown up in the establishment's face

well it is not an establishment plot and also the idea of Coots being part of I mean let me

read you what Soella Brevin said yesterday and again it's very much in that tone that tone which

afflicts so much of conservatism at the moment and center right thinking which is this this idea of

constant persecution by whom goodness knows it's always a sort of vague the blob amorphous group

always out to get them I mean it's extraordinary the level of paranoia and victimhood but Soella

Brevin tweeted yesterday again this is the home secretary folks the Coots scandal exposes the

sinister nature of much of the diversity equity and inclusion industry where is this industry I

quite fancy it sounds quite nice doesn't it kind of quite nice but they've got lovely sofas

apparently anyone who wants to control our borders and stop the boats can be branded xenophobic

and have their bank account closed in the name of inclusivity sorry we're talking about Coots here

Coots bank like the royal families bank I don't think that they are the center and kind of

fulcrum of the diversity equity and inclusion industry you literally can't have a bank account

with them unless you've got a million quid they're the opposite of the inclusion industry whatever

the hell that is and I think that what this speaks of is that increasingly fevered mindset

which is on parts of conservatism conservative thinking over the last few years and forage

could be completely in the right but as you say John taking it one step further to talk about this

idea of starting to link into the council culture and all this sort of stuff I think is a mistake

yeah and just we're talking about banking I mean the idea of banking as part of the socialist

conspiracy well that was very much the trust lines I mean it was just it's just ridiculous you know

in 2008 weren't they the bloodsuckers weren't we going to help the bankers when everyone else was

allowed to go to the wall but for some reason capitalism had to keep the bankers in their

business I mean it is just absurd some of this fantasy politics and it's culture war stuff

that the idea that the banks are in the crosshairs of the culture war again it's just for the birds

it's fantasy land well we should probably get a sense of like the legality all of this so we can

talk to Gary Rycroft who's a consumer lawyer partner at Joseph A. Jones and County's Lister

in Lancashire Gary in terms of the legal position has Coote's done anything wrong here

Lewis banks are private businesses who are perfectly entitled to make their own decision

about who they want to do business with but clearly we don't want them to make those decisions in a

way which is arbitrary and they've got it coming at them from all angles really and in terms of their

duties towards anti-money laundering organizations and in terms of their duties towards making sure

that they aren't dealing with people who are so-called peps they have a very high duty to ensure

that they are behaving in a way that's ethical but is nevertheless making sure that they comply

with the law so a pep is a person who is politically exposed person and that can be anyone from the

the mayor here in Lancaster where I live to the prime minister to the president of the United States

it's a person who is politically active on a local national or international level and the point is

if you're politically active you're in a position of power and if you're in a position of power

people often want to influence you and that means that you are potentially subject to bribery

or people paying you money in order for you to make decisions that are favorable to them

so it doesn't mean that you can't give a bank account to a pep but it does mean you have to

bring a higher level of due diligence to make sure you understand why that person has funds

what's the source of their wealth and what's the source of their funds but with Nigel Farage

can you understand the process and the decision making that took place because it's not just that

he's politically active it seems it was that he had xenophobic views or that he you know had contacts

allegedly with russians he's a legitimate politician is it fair to deny someone a bank account

because of things like that because then surely it's open season on anyone whose views you don't

like whether they are from the right or from the left well I think there's two things going on there

john one is the issue of the pep and what that actually means so if you're a pep it means that

you are at a greater risk to the business that you want to do business with now that business

can take a view whether they want to do business with you or not but let's not forget that banks

people in financial services and dare I say law firms people like myself as lawyers we are told

by the government you've got to know what your clients are doing and ultimately there are potential

criminal sanctions if your clients do something nefarious and you've let that happen on your watch

so if you're wanting to derisk your business you will just remove from your book people who

have a potential risk to you so that's one issue the second issue that I think you're alluding to

john is the issue of someone's views now we don't want people to have the thought police actually

deciding whether you should have a bank account or not but another aspect of this is that many

businesses particularly in the financial services sector are being told by their customers we want

you to behave in a way that's ethical we will only do business with you if you align with our

ethical views and there's things called the esg targets which are about environmental sustainability

and governance targets and businesses are increasingly being told by their customers we want

you to comply with that so there is an issue that if someone has views that are not complying with

esg that they might not be allowed to do business with that particular bank law firm or whoever

but just to be clear gary kutes as far as you can see they haven't acted improperly they've acted

according to the regulations which exist kutes are existing in a very complex regulatory framework

and as far as I can see they are complying with their regulatory obligations mr farage is kicking

up a bit of a stink about all that and what I'd say to him is well why don't you publish everything

don't just edit the bits that you want people to see but let's just see full disclosure you can

redact bits that you might think are confidential that put you at risk from fraud or something

like that but let's see everything and then people can take a view on whether something unfair has

happened or not but kutes haven't exactly been transparent have they because the story that he

didn't have enough funds in his bank account apparently came from a senior source that spoke

to the bbc's business editor and he reported it was simply a matter that he didn't have enough money

in his account to warrant a kutes private bank account and we now know that it was more complicated

than that yeah well as I say kutes are operating in a complex regulatory framework and they have

different rules about whether you can have an account or not one of them is your level of wealth

I'm sure they have discretion about that particular point as they have discretion about the other

points I've been talking about with regard to taking a view on whether someone is a risk or not

but perhaps sometimes and I have no inside information whatsoever about the decision

that's been made by kutes but perhaps sometimes there's just a perfect storm of various factors

that come together and together cumulatively they raise a red flag which means that you want to

de-risk your business and actually decide sadly that you no longer want to conduct business

with that particular individual or organization Gary really grateful to you thanks so much great

to talk to you thank you bye bye bye we said we were going to talk about kutes a bit because I

think we've talked about forage and I think it's quite like you john I've always been quite I've

been with them about forage I spend a lot of time with him during the brexit party years spent a lot

of time sort of talking to him and I actually think he's a very interesting politician and a very

influential one as I say and certainly one of the most charismatic politicians that I've ever seen

kutes themselves are hardly I think they're not exactly going to be blameless about this thing

and I think there is one kind of ethical tension at the very heart of their position which is like

let's be frank here Niger forage if they've removed forage partly because not so much

just about his politics but they think he's potentially controversial and that he's a bit

of a risk to them reputation Lee forage not by a long long way is going to be the most

controversial person on their books they are going to have people who are very very complicated

and have complicated histories and complicated financial affairs very very wealthy people

billionaires and so the truth of what's happened here and this is what kutes would have to reckon

with the truth is if forage had more money they would probably have kept him and so to basically

say well we're concerned about our ethics and our reputation up to a point lord copper basically

kind of stinks as a position look one other thing there was an extraordinary story in the Sunday

time from a journalist who we featured on the podcast before Gabriel pogrand about a guy who

gets given three million euros in cash which then gets put in to his kutes bank account now

there's no suggestion of any illegality there it was given to him by a middle eastern potentate

from the gulf region it's just that the person in question who received the three million

in the plastic bags was one prince charles future king of england did kutes bank say to him

sorry we can't cash this because of money laundering regulations or did they say thanks very much there

right coming up next we're going to talk about a man who's also having to manage his reputation

a little bit and that is Tobias award the conservative MP and chair of the defense select

committee who has basically decided to have a trip to afghanistan that no one can understand stay with

us this is the news agents

welcome back to bias elwood he is the chair of the commons defense select committees a former

soldier as well free thinking independent minded who has just been to afghanistan and posted a video

that sort of wouldn't feel out of place on a holiday program it was so

reassuring about what a great place wish you were here wish you were here what a great place afghanistan

is now i'm here back in helman province in afghanistan courtesy of the halo trust and all that's

happened here since 9 11 this is a very different country in deal it feels different now that the

Taliban have returned to power but they be hard to believe that security has vastly improved

corruption is down and the opium trade has all but disappeared you quickly appreciate this war

weary nation is for the moment accepting a more authoritarian leadership in exchange for stability

well here in kibble the streets are relatively safe the checkpoints have all gone businesses are

reopening the economy is starting to function our british embassy is just through those gates

over there unfortunately it's still closed there is a calm though to the country that local elders

say they've not experienced since the 1970s that's how long ordinary afghans have experienced war

so do we shout from afar and risk another era of instability and rise in terrorism and mass migration

all re-engage if the EU embassy can open up so can ours and incrementally we can encourage

the progressive changes to the economy and critically for girls education and female workers

that we all want to see well i depart afghanistan with a better appreciation as to how we can help

this vulnerable country that feels abandoned by the international community it is time to reopen

the embassies it is time to re-engage and britain should lead the way with news agents holidays we

are offering weekend away breaks to carball it's the best place to go for a short snappy holiday

i mean it's unbelievable is that music is you'd have to say that he is offering a very lopsided

view of what has happened to afghanistan since the taliban returned well yeah indeed there's a famine

there the un have warned about a famine i mean the taliban would say well that's partly because

the west isn't allowing food imports or food donations i should say but nonetheless i mean

there's clearly been a horrendous humanitarian situation in afghanistan and this is leading to

domestic political problems for elwood himself because like i say he is the chair of the defense

select committee and now having been seen there and this was a sort of charity trip to afghanistan

with the halo trust the conservatives or other members of the committee are basically trying

now to overthrow him as chair so four members of the commons defense committee have tabled a

motion of no confidence in elwood including labour mps kevin jones and derrick twig alongside

conservative mps mark françois and richard draxe with uh jones saying this isn't the first time

that tobias elwood has made statements which don't reflect the committee stance this one is beyond

the pale so he's apologized for it he appeared also on talk tv's piers morgan show this is what he

had to say then i stepped forward on many occasions and say things perhaps which other mps won't say

and occasionally yes i say things the wrong way because of twitter a storm then comes about about

it and i have to deal with it i'll be very clear the last couple of days have probably been the most

miserable as a member of parliament i got it wrong piers i don't know how many times you would like

me to say that will you delete the video i'm happy to do so sir i'm absolutely happy to do that

immediately this interview is over because that would indicate you genuinely are remorseful of

course i am so just some more figures in terms of the actual situation in afghanistan according to

the un there's been a 1095 civilian deaths since august 2021 as of late june over 3700 civilian

casualties so woundings and so on it is a really grim situation elwood's always been a bit of a

live wire he's not a particularly popular maverick i think is the word yeah that's maybe a bit

generous but yeah maverick he's not especially popular on a conservative backbenches for lots of

different reasons he's framing it there that you know this is something that others won't say

i mean i suppose you know if you were to sort of take a step back on it it is absolutely true

to say clearly that video was absurd and it was just completely inappropriate and the tone was

completely wrong i suppose what you can say is that it is true that the western occupation of

afghanistan had failed we know that it had failed completely because of the manner of the withdrawal

that it collapsed the regime collapsed instantly contrast that with somewhere like ukraine for

example which is clearly a viable state fighting for its freedom different situations but the afghan

state was feeble despite 20 years of occupation there were all sorts of problems there before

and it's true to say that there is a certain level of political stability there now that there

wasn't before albeit with all of the horrendous problems that go with it and the fact that the

taliban in particular are completely backtracking on everything they said particularly with regards

to women and girls so i suppose there is a genuine debate and argument to be had about

whether the west should be reengaging with the taliban and whether in the end that that would

be better over the long term particularly in terms of food donations and so on and aid but

clearly the way that he did it was absurd i do think that afghanistan is one of the great foreign

policy failures of our time and having been sent there to kind of cover the war in 2001 when it was

getting rid of the taliban and going back there to report on what it was like in helmand province

you do sense the absolute failure when the troops pulled out in you know the summer of 2021

just suddenly fast and leaving afghanistan to the mercy of the taliban with some of the chaos that

has been brought around and just to paint a picture well look at poppers even production it's down

look at corruption it's down the treatment of women and girls and education has been horrific

and i don't know how he could have quite got that so badly wrong

this is the news agents

welcome back and luis goodall i suspect you are going to have a new blanche so i love the french

word for a sleepless night la nuit blanche i don't think i can you know aid is going to be the

first like proper by election night i've not been doing the program for for ages which is a

source of deep sadness but more than that i'm doing because i'm doing lbc james o'brown show

between ten and one tomorrow listening obviously obviously you've been doing so all week i'm just

going to have to go to sleep i'm going to be sat there like a little child you won't be able to

i will i'll have to you won't he's been he's been you you will wake up at 230 in a sweat thinking

i wonder whether they've declared yet in uxbury and the radio will go on oh i might go yeah just

might just go over there but it's going to hang outside but it promises to be a momentous day

tomorrow with his through by elections and the potential of a cabinet reshuffle as well so

momentous i hear that one john soap will might be crawling his way into the studio on a friday

well if i can find my way to lester square on a friday i may well be sitting next to you well

i can't wait to find out see you tomorrow bye this has been a global player original podcast and a

persophonica production

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