Mamamia Out Loud: We Have Wardrobe Notes For Margot Robbie

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Mamma Mia Out Loud!

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud.

It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the 7th of July.

My name is Holly Wainwright and I am back from holiday.

I'm Mia Friedman and I'm stoked that I don't have to drive this bloody show anymore.

And I'm Claire Stevens and I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but Holly Wainwright

was away for six months.

It felt like you were away for so long.

It was only two weeks and I know not much happened.

No, I didn't miss anything, did I?

Hardly anything happened.

No, no, no, no.

No big news.

All good.

What are you talking about?

There was news.

I got a fringe.

Yeah, and there was something, something, baby, something.

Anyway, we'll get to that later.

On the show today, what is Threads?

30 million people have downloaded an app none of us had heard of a couple of days ago.

Why?

Plus, Margot Robbie's Barbie Wardrobe, her real one, not the one in the dream house,

is being slammed.

Can we not just let Barbie be Barbie?

And I bet you can't guess what the worst of the week are for my co-hosts here whose

bloodlines have finally officially mingled.

Yes, the baby blues no one was expecting, as well as a dog attack, not Mia's dogs for

once and more.

But first, Mia Friedman.

In case you missed it, no one knows how to behave at concerts anymore and the artists

have had enough.

Basically, what's happened is that audience are throwing things onto the stage.

Now, this is not completely new.

There was a pop star a while ago who left Australia halfway through her tour because

she was getting bottles thrown at her.

Like, concert tickets are expensive.

If you're going to buy concert ticket, don't throw things on the stage.

It's not just projectiles that are being thrown, but people are throwing gifts and

sometimes other things.

So BB Rexha is an artist who was hit by a phone.

Why would you throw your phone onto the stage?

Just take a selfie like the rest of us.

Pink has been thrown a wheel of cheese, which, frankly, I'd appreciate.

Week or so ago, somebody threw some ashes, not the cricket's ashes, but their mother's

ashes onto the stage.

This week, Adele is over it.

She really is.

At her residency in Vegas, Adele had a word to the crowd about throwing things on the

stage while she was shooting a t-shirt cannon into the crowd.

She had this to say.

Have you noticed how people are, like, forgetting fucking show etiquette at the moment, they're

throwing shit on stage?

Have you seen them?

Fucking dare you.

Dare you to throw something at me and I'm not fucking kidding you.

Stop throwing things at the artist, but you can shoot things at the audience.

I love that she cracked herself up with the irony of her lecturing the crowd, not to throw

things at her while she shot them with a t-shirt cannon.

I love that Adele is just slightly rough enough that I'm genuinely scared.

She's like, I dare you.

I feel like you might punch me.

And she was wearing a ball gown while she said this, it was so glorious.

But remember how last week, Mia, we were talking about Lewis Capaldi and I said, audiences

don't want performers to just be mindless puppets anymore, we're aware of their humanity.

I take it back.

Or I take it back about women, because this whole trend lately of things being thrown

at performers on stage, all women.

Big news today, we are launching threads in open and friendly public space for conversations.

So I put my phone down for a few days and 30 million people have moved on without me.

Some of you are probably already on it.

Some of you will have heard a lot about it, but have no idea what it is.

And some people will be rolling their eyes so hard about yet another time-sucking platform

come to fleece us out of our self-respect.

Yes, I'm talking about threads, which is ironic, because although I found myself joining it

last night, I don't know what threads is.

Claire Stevens, what is threads?

It's a brand new app that's part of Meta, which is Facebook and Instagram.

Can I ask another question?

Why is threads?

Because that is a great question.

Why is threads?

Threads be because Twitter got broken.

Oh!

And Twitter got broken by one man named Elon Musk.

And Twitter, if anybody is on Twitter at the moment, they will know Twitter really did

get broken.

My algorithm on Twitter is so bad.

It like radicalizes you.

You can really feel a shift.

So what?

It's become very right-wing.

So Elon Musk was like, I'm going to take over Twitter.

It's going to be anti-woke.

So for example, he's also fired all the moderators, fired most of the people who work there.

But he has said that the word cisgender is a slur.

And if you use it, it will be treated like a slur.

So cisgender is what is used to describe a person who is not trans.

So someone usually describes themselves.

They might describe themselves as cisgender.

But he's said it's a slur.

And he's also done this weird thing where a lot of the social apps are grappling with

how to deal with AI and what's called scraping.

So bots coming and scraping all the data and basically turning it into AI.

And the way that he's decided to try and stop that is by limiting people to reading 600

tweets a day.

Not sending, but reading.

I was like, oh, that sounds like quite a lot.

But it's not.

That's about 20 minutes of scrolling.

So high Twitter users are losing it because they would do probably hours of scrolling

all day.

So it seems like a slightly counterintuitive thing to do to say you have to use this service

less.

So why is threads different?

Threads is different at the moment because it doesn't have all the complicated stuff

that's going on on Twitter.

It's different for good and bad reasons.

For me, I've always used it as a platform to know what's going on in the world.

So if there's ever a huge news event, Twitter is a fascinating place to be.

Because a lot of journalists and news organizations are on Twitter.

Do you tweet?

Absolutely not.

I think I've done like two tweets where I've tried to be funny, maybe in like 2016.

And every now and then I'll post a story, but it's just ridiculous because no one follows

me and me and Josie have a shared account.

It's very odd.

And you've noticed a real change since Elon took over last year.

My algorithm, I can 100% see how you would be radicalized into the right wing.

If I go on Twitter, it is only the trans debate.

Like as though that's what we should all be talking about because it's the real threat

to society.

It's actually really, really troubling.

And it is just a lot of journalists in their own kind of echo chamber rabbit hole.

But so threads is kind of starting with a clean slate, but one of the reasons it's different

and it may not be a good thing is there's no hashtags.

So at the moment, there's no way to like aggregate information is kind of like TikTok in that

it's totally random.

So it's a timeline when I go on there.

So I joined it last night in an attempt to understand what it was.

And it was just a lot of people saying, what are we doing here?

Oh, this is fun.

And I was like, oh, well, this isn't very fun.

It's glorious.

I love it.

Now, there've been a lot of platforms when Twitter started to go bad under Elon and even

a bit before that, a lot of people were looking for alternatives to Twitter.

So there's been mastodon, there's been telegram, there's been a few something called blue sky.

Blue sky.

But, you know, no one's really going to go on those.

I mean, the difference obviously with Twitter is that it's a text based social media app,

right?

So like you can share links, then you can do it in a small number of categories.

The reason that threads is a game changer is because it's built upon Instagram.

It's built on top of Instagram.

So what they've done is and why they've had, I think, 10 million, 30 million people in

24 hours, you know, the three of us are amongst them.

You do three clicks and it says, do you want to basically just transfer your Instagram account

over there?

And then you do another click and it's like, do you want to follow all the people on threads

that you're following on Instagram and you just go, yes.

And then suddenly you're on threads.

So you don't have to look for people, you don't have to do any of that.

And look, of all the people that you follow on Instagram, a lot of them might not yet

be on threads, but as they come on, you'll automatically be following them.

What I love about it is that I was one of the, not the earliest adopters of Twitter,

but a lot of my Mamiya was built on the back of Twitter.

I was one of the earlier people there from media and it was lovely.

Back in the day, it was just where you would try to amuse everyone.

Like it was kind of like a competition to see who could be the funniest person.

There were no trolls and it was like kind of going to a really fun party.

But Claire Stevens, my question is though, is that even if Threads is a lovely place

today, isn't any platform just as lovely as the people who are on it?

So once everybody gets their heads around threads and understands that's the new place

to go and have an argy-bargy about whatever culture or as exciting people at the minute,

it will just be Twitter, but on my Instagram.

Isn't that right?

What I find fascinating about it is that this is probably the biggest mainstream social

media launch in the social media age.

Like none of us can really remember the day Facebook started because it didn't start like

that.

It started in college and then gradually built and that's kind of what Instagram did.

That's what Twitter did.

But you're seeing all these people jump on it in real time and work out what it is.

And I'm really fascinated if it is just by the nature of human behavior going ahead in

the same way as Twitter.

It'll be a pretty much fire in a week, but at the moment it's lovely because the people

that are there first are Instagram people and Instagram people are fundamentally different

to Twitter.

Even if the same people have both accounts, you know, there's a reason that Donald Trump

became big on Twitter and is not big on Instagram.

Instagram is more female based.

You know, that was the reason I moved from Twitter to Instagram back in the day because

people are just nicer.

Like I don't get trolled on Instagram.

I just don't.

Better are better at moderation and all of those kinds of things.

It's a wild wild west on Twitter, but today threats is quite nice.

What's the best thing you've seen on there today, class Stevens?

What's the best thing you've seen on there in the last couple of days?

So what I find fascinating about it is that you're seeing people behave in a social media

environment where there's no blueprint for how they should behave.

So I think we're seeing people's true personalities.

Nobody knows what it is to be cool or to fit in on this platform.

So you're seeing like Dan Andrews be like, everyone right to go and our boys like ready

over here.

And I'm like, that's who you are, but some of my favorite threads so far have been when

do we start cancelling people on here?

I thought that was very funny and very true because that's going to be a matter of days.

It's probably already started happening.

Another one said first day on threads giving me real school excursion vibes, which is so

true because it's like we go to school on Instagram, but now we're just having a little

excursion.

And people are just waving like a lot of people are just waving, which is so cute.

I don't know.

Hi.

And another one, this meeting could have easily been a thread, which I just thought was funny

because that's probably where we're going.

Instead of doing meetings in person, why not just have them on a thread?

Can I ask a basic boomer question because I know I'm not a boomer, but this is a boomer

question because I bet lots of out louders will be thinking the same thing.

Have I done something wrong that I can't just open my Instagram app and have threads

available to me there or do you have to have it in the other app, Clare Stevens?

You need to download threads the other app and Holly, I would say the important reason

you have to do that is so that Mark Zuckerberg can steal more of your data and in a different

way.

Okay.

So you have to sign over your life, but here's an interesting thing.

If you delete your threads account, you delete your Instagram.

So that's something to be aware of.

We've all signed a weird deal with the devil because we got excited.

God.

So no one's ever going to delete.

It's like two minutes ago, we were all like, in fact, Clare, I loved your best and worst

of the week last week.

You were like, too much time spent on phones.

And then we're like, oh, here's another way to waste our lives on our phone.

Out louders are going to want to know, do they need to be there?

The answer is absolutely not.

You really don't.

Like we'll keep you posted.

We obviously are media people.

We're very online because it's part of our job and we have to be there wasting time so

that we can come and tell you about it.

I wanted to just tell you about what they've actually said because we talked on an earlier

episode about the throwdown between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

Over this, they've been rivals for a really long time.

So when it launched, here's what Zuckerberg had to say about threads.

We are launching threads, an open and friendly public space for conversations.

It takes the best parts of the Instagram experience and creates a whole new app around text.

Ideas and sharing what's on your mind.

You just sign up with your Instagram account.

You have your followers already there and you can just get into and get started.

And it is available on the app store now.

That all sounded very civil.

But what he said in a post to his threads account on Wednesday is I think there should

be a public conversations app with more than one billion people on it.

Twitter has had the opportunity to do this, but hasn't nailed it.

Hopefully we will.

And then Musk weighed in, saying that he was not impressed by threads and claiming

that he had canceled his Instagram account, which is so sad for Instagram.

And then he wrote on Twitter, it is infinitely preferable to be attacked

by strangers on Twitter than indulge in the false happiness of hide the pain Instagram.

Oh, I so disagree.

Can you please unpack what he means by that?

Elon Musk has got some weird, weird, bloody ideas.

I mean, clearly he is trying to just completely shut Zuckerberg down.

However, I have a cynical theory.

He talks about, oh, you need more free speech, you need more debate,

which people usually say when they want people to be able to say horrible things.

And I don't agree with him.

And I think in decades time, we will look back at Twitter and see what his free

speech angle did to that platform and how it completely ruined it.

But there is a theory that Mark Zuckerberg has built threads in an attempt

to build a really sophisticated form of AI using all our language and our tone

and our thoughts, probably, which is interesting because Elon Musk,

as you said, is trying to do things to limit the impact of AI.

No, he's not. Oh, no, OK.

Well, he's also a big investor in AI companies and AI development on the side.

So this is the tension, I think, between Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk.

If I met them, I think I'd like Mark Zuckerberg more.

I think Elon Musk would be a narcissist and a megalomaniac.

However, I think they're both out.

I think perhaps Elon Musk has altruistic intentions

because if you look big picture at what he is trying to do on a social level,

he's trying to build friendly AI and he's been really,

really involved in making sure that AI does not go in scary directions.

Hard to disagree.

Whereas Mark Zuckerberg, I think he's more flying by the seat of his pants

and he's just like, I'm going to build things, I'm going to build things.

And then I think if we end up with a monster, it may be of Zuckerberg's making.

Holly, would you prefer to be attacked by strangers than have some fake happy life?

I'm totally here for the fake happy life.

I don't want to be attacked by strangers.

We've all had way too much of that.

Give me the happy toxic positivity of Instagram any day.

I say the people who've tried out so far, the reactions have been really great.

And I am looking forward to the fun journey ahead to turn this into the kind of big

and friendly community that I think we all want to see in the world.

Unless you've been living in an alternate universe,

you've no doubt become aware of a film that is about an iconic children's toy

called Barbie. Holly, I know you've been in the jungle.

Have you heard of her?

I saw her everywhere, even in the jungle.

Barbie, of course, is played in the film by Australian actress

Margot Robbie and in the lead up to the film's much anticipated release

later this month, Margot Robbie and the cast have been on an epic press tour

all around the world.

They were in Australia last week, doing a lot of, well, it's sort of weird

because they haven't been able to do it to coincide with the premiere.

Premier, premiere, premiere, premiere.

That's the correct use of premiere, Mia.

Well done. Now I have fear around the word.

Now, there's been an article come out in the last 24 hours

that has caused some conversation and not all of it good.

The Aussie actress's red carpet outfit choices for this promo tour

have included, you may have noticed, a lot of pink and a lot of outfits

deliberately mirroring the style of Barbie's wardrobe.

She's got a new stylist because she's someone who cops a little bit of negativity.

She's got this very big partnership deal with Chanel,

which means that they get to dress her for a lot of her red carpet appearances

and the people who watch these things closely

complain a lot that Chanel are damaging Margot Robbie's brand

by dressing her in things that aren't very nice.

Now, she obviously has some clauses carved out of that contract

to be able to wear other designers occasionally and particularly on this press tour.

So she's got this new stylist.

What this opinion piece has said, it's written by Damien Willnow,

who's the Channel 9 sort of fashion reporter.

The headline is living doll Margot Robbie can do better than dressing

like Barbie. He goes on to complain that rather than explore

the infinite possibilities of the Barbie world, as apparently the movie does,

Margot Robbie and her stylist have mined the hyper feminine looks

of pink and fabulous Barbie in a polka dot Valentino mini dress

and day to night Barbie in Versace.

It's difficult to detect any attempts at irony through the layers of pink.

He then goes on to say, why can't we see the professional side

of Margot Robbie on the red carpet?

Because of course, she's a powerhouse producer and actress in Hollywood.

Why can't we see her in powerful suits from Alexander McQueen challenging

dresses by Simone Rochard or Australian designer Dion Lee's unapologetic

celebrations of sexuality.

Holly, are you disappointed in Margot Robbie's

very pink, very Barbie outfits on the red carpet?

I'm not disappointed, but I'm really conflicted about this whole vibe

because like everybody else in the world, I've watched the trailers

for the Barbie movie. It looks great.

It looks funny and ironic, and they've really deliberately gone very diverse

in casting. They are taking the piss out of the Barbie sort of vibe.

So, you know, in the trailer, it says, if you love Barbie, this movie's for you.

If you hate Barbie, this movie's for you.

It pokes fun at the heels, pokes fun at the relentless positivity.

It's got like cool people like Issa Rae and Kate McKinnon,

the indigo girls on the soundtrack.

And it's, you know, it's trying to be very of the moment.

And yet the relentless imagery we're getting is Margot Robbie,

Margot Robbie, Margot Robbie as main character energy.

And Margot Robbie looks like Barbie, right?

And that's obviously the point.

And I feel like the way that she looks is very specific,

a very specific look, thin white blonde lady who looks great in a frock,

beautiful figure, all the rest of it.

And we used to all allegedly want to look like that,

but apparently we don't anymore.

Yet I feel like what's being shoved down our throats is the OG Barbie all the time.

And I just get this feeling like this whole campaign

and the clothes and the visuals is like, yeah, yeah,

we've done all that diversity stuff and we've given you all these different looks

of Barbie, but really what everybody wants is shiny pink Barbie.

And here she is, here she is, here she is.

I completely disagree.

And I'm furious about this article.

I get what you mean when I first kind of heard there was a Barbie movie

and I didn't know anything about it.

And I heard who was cast.

I didn't get it.

I didn't get the hype.

I didn't get why we were all meant to be really excited about this.

As soon as I saw the first trailer, I went, oh, this is genius.

This is going to turn everything on its head.

Greta Gerwig directed it.

Feminist, brilliant movie maker, but it's still Barbie, Barbie, Barbie, Barbie, Barbie.

Well, I find this to be such an odd criticism.

She is on the press tour for Barbie.

So she's going to dress like Barbie.

And this is not uncommon.

It's incredibly, it's part, it's marketing 101 that when you are playing

an iconic role like this, you dress like it.

When Halle Bailey was just in Australia doing the little mermaid premiere,

she only wore mermaid style dresses.

When Jenna Ortega was doing the promo for Wednesday, she dressed gothic.

When Elizabeth DeBecchi was doing Princess Diana for the crown,

she exclusively wore looks that threw back to Princess Diana's looks.

Margot Robbie, in particular, has always done this.

Yeah, she's very on brand and she's very professional and polished.

And if you look at her for the once upon a time in Hollywood premiere,

when she was playing Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad,

she has always been very adaptable to whatever role she's playing.

This article by Old Mate Damien, which is getting torn apart.

And Damien, he has his right to his opinion, but.

Just as for Damien, I say.

It is a criticism of hyper femininity and I don't care about fashion.

And I have thought she looks really fun on the red carpets and her co-star,

Ryan Gosling, is dressing as Ken and is there any criticism of him?

Absolutely not. It's funny when he does it.

It's a weird sense that you have to wear a suit to be taken seriously as a woman.

And then the question is if we shouldn't wear pink or wear skirts or be blonde

or wear heels if we want to be taken seriously, how about the things we can't

change, like the size of our boobs or the size of our bums or our age

or what men randomly choose to sexualise about us?

I hate the idea that it is on women to behave a certain way, dress a certain way.

We're certain designers in order to be taken seriously.

I completely agree with you, Claire Stevens.

I'm not arguing about that at all.

I think that of course she's dressed like Barbie because of course she is.

The thing that I'm finding conflicting about this is that it's like

we all decided we were over Barbie and like this is a cool take on Barbie.

But then it's kind of not by stealth really.

It's like we all still just want the pretty white lady.

I think we haven't seen the film yet.

We haven't seen the movie yet.

And I reckon all this promo is about building her up to be Barbie.

And then we will get to the end of that film and our minds will be absolutely blown.

But in my mind, the idea that he by how clever it is and the fact that I think the

movie is going to be brilliant, I just feel like there's a little bit of like

we're all allowed to feel good about it now, which is fine.

But are we just woke washing something?

Are we going like, oh, it's feminist now, but it's still 1980s Barbie.

With all due respect to you both, I am the fashion correspondent.

Why am I not being speaking?

With all due respect, I am the basic bitch who knows nothing about

nothing except how I feel.

So both of you just step down and just listen to what I've got to say.

A couple of things.

First of all, they've done a very good job in the marketing, obviously,

with the trailer to make it seem really subversive.

And the marketing is if you love Barbie, you'll love this movie.

If you hate Barbie, you'll love this movie.

So clever because they're, you know, tapping into those complex feelings

that Holly has.

The second thing is that the person who was originally meant to play Barbie

and be involved in this movie was Amy Schumer.

She signed on and I remember, you know, everyone, when they heard this,

it was like, oh, it's going to be really subversive because it was going to be

interesting that she does not look like the stereotypical version of Barbie.

And there were differences of opinion creatively between Amy Schumer

and the producers, and she departed that project and Margot Robbie came on,

who, as you say, does look a lot like Barbie.

From a fashion point of view, and I want to stick to that part of this,

I am not angry.

I'm just disappointed because if I was Margot Robbie, she's worked very hard

in her career not to be typecast like she played Tonya Harding.

She was nominated for an Academy Award for that performance, you know,

after sort of coming to international Hollywood attention by playing

the hot young wife in the Wolf of Wall Street.

She could have gone down that road, but she makes interesting choices as an actor.

To me, this isn't an interesting choice as an actor because it's kind of what

people would expect, but I get why she's done it.

Like, I totally get why she's done it.

This is going to be the biggest movie of the year.

However, if I was her stylist and if I was Margot Robbie, I would say,

you know, what would actually be more interesting is not dressing

like Barbie on the red carpet to have a real juxtaposition

between Margot Robbie acting as Barbie and Margot Robbie as an actor

and as a person who might be playing a serial killer tomorrow in another movie.

And I would have done different looks because I've actually thought

on the red carpet and she's been doing this tour with Greta Gerwig

and Issa Rae, who's also in it and a couple of other people.

I love her, but she does look a little bit silly dressed like with these other

adults who are dressed like grown women, kind of dressed like Barbie.

And to me, it feels a bit not that, oh, you can't dress feminine

and that's a betrayal of feminism.

I don't mean that.

I just think it's more interesting to go the opposite way.

But it's just basic marketing and like she was dressing like this

and she was playing a serial killer.

I would find it more interesting.

I agree with you. It's basic marketing because it is literally all the Barbie movie.

She looks like Barbie.

They're posting all the things of the actual Barbie wearing the outfit.

And if you see a photo of Margot Robbie,

like you've also got to think this sounds really bad,

but marketing has to appeal to the lowest common denominator

who's going to pay for a ticket and go to the movies.

I get it.

And if you see a photo of Margot Robbie at the Barbie premiere

and there's there might not be kind of branding around and she's wearing

all black and he's making some really amazing statement.

Double denim. Nobody's that smart.

You just need to see Barbie.

But also people like sparkly pink shit, they do, you know what I mean?

The world has gone mad for Barbie pink for the last two years in the lead

up to this movie.

So I think this movie's marketing is clever because it's letting us have our cake

and eat it. It's a clever feminist take on Barbie.

Also, pink sparkles wear heels like that's what everybody wants.

I just hate the argument from this journalist that

Margot Robbie has to dress a certain way in order to be taken seriously.

When she was one of Australia's most accomplished actors

and has her own production company that has produced films like Promising Young

Woman and the Netflix series Made.

And it's like, well, if she just wore D on Lee, we might be able to take her seriously.

And also, of course, the irony is that the better this movie does,

the more power she'll have in Hollywood to do whatever she wants.

Aversive films, which that film and that show that I just

stated are some of the most feminist things to come out of Hollywood.

Out louders, what do you think? Hop in the Facebook group, pop on Instagram.

Are we on threads? Who knows? Maybe we are. Go find us.

Mumma Mia, out loud.

If you want to make Mum Mia out loud part of your routine five days a week,

we release segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays just for Mum Mia subscribers.

To get full access, follow the link in the show notes

and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

It's Friday, and it's time to wrap up our week with Best in West.

We all know the rules.

We like to end on a high note, except when you get an exception,

like a letter from Mia that says you don't have it.

Cagually, I allow it.

Yes. So, Holly, let's kick it off with your worst of the week.

I've been on holiday, as many of you know, and I'm about to tell you about that,

because no question, it was my best.

But my worst of the week was what happened just before we went on holiday.

My worst of the week was what happened just before we went on holiday

and then has kind of been the undercurrent, the only negative undercurrent in the holiday.

And that's that my beautiful doggy, Tuna, who you've all heard about,

on the morning that we were leaving.

So we had to leave where we live, because we live two hours from the airport.

We had to leave at like 8 a.m.

And at 6 a.m., Brent's like, I'm going to take the dog for a quick walk

so that she's had a walk and then a house sitter was arriving

to look after the dog and the house for two weeks.

On that walk, Tuna gets attacked by one of her best friends.

Tuna plays with this dog all the time.

It's not like some nasty, unknown dog ran up to her.

She plays with this dog almost every day

and for reasons that are only apparent to that dog on this day.

He went for her and he bit her really badly on the neck.

Brent had to wrestle the dog and back at the house oblivious,

because Brent never takes his phone anywhere. He's such a boomer.

I'm working my way through my holiday list and Brent comes in the door

with poor Tuna and he's like, she's been attacked.

She's got this cut in her neck.

So he had to go after the vet.

She had to have stitches.

We had to leave her there and then the house sitter was going to collect it.

So I've had the best two weeks ever.

I was about to tell you about.

Tuna has not.

Tuna has had a bad two weeks because she woke up from her anesthetic,

got picked up by a strange man she didn't know and then came home

and was obviously really anxious

because she's pretty much destroyed everything in the house while we've been gone.

She's chewed up her bed, not a good bed, not her nice fancy sash bed,

but her outside bed is in pieces.

Every plant in the garden has been torn up.

Everything has been chewed.

It was been my poor doggy has had a bad couple of weeks.

In her defense, she got attacked by her best friend

and then thought she got abandoned by her family.

So I say fair enough, Tuna.

The only happy thing is, is we got back yesterday

and I was really worried that she was going to be, you know, damaged, like really, really.

But she's just so happy to see us and so calm again now.

So that's a happy note.

But we have all learned some lessons about how to look after a dog.

My best, though, is being on holiday.

I heard while I was away.

So I caught up on all the shows yesterday when I was traveling back.

I binged.

How good was I driving?

Just out of 10.

How good was I?

So good.

Well, I'd give you like a seven out of 10, maybe.

Yeah, I think I got better as time went on.

It was really good.

I listened, of course, to the throwdown between you and Elfie about work, which I loved.

And I loved Claire said how much she loves work, but she also loves holidays.

That's me. I just love holidays.

And so I've been in Borneo, which is in Malaysia.

I had never even really heard of Borneo before we decided to go.

But I just knew it was jungle and wild.

And it has been amazing.

And one of the best things about it, we went on this tour with Intrepid Travel

and it's a small group tour and it was all families.

So there were four families, lots of kids.

The kids all entertained each other.

I've just spent two weeks of not making a single meal or packing a single lunchbox.

Just heaven.

The kids all played together, had a great time.

I saw monkeys went to the jungle.

I swam with turtles.

We saw turtles laying the eggs.

I just had the most amazing holiday.

And we got to spend lots of time together, but then also time apart.

And I just loved it.

Best was holiday Borneo and Trepid.

Amazing.

This is a slightly embarrassing question because I've been to Borneo.

Is it a country or is it a city in Malaysia?

Borneo is an island.

It's the largest island in the world, but it's divided and owned by three different places.

So some of Borneo belongs to Malaysia, some of Borneo belongs to Indonesia

and a little slice of Borneo is a country called Brunei.

So it's like different places.

It's so interesting.

It's mostly Islamic, so it's culturally quite different.

It's unbelievably beautiful.

Going somewhere that's really different from home is so kind of energizing.

And it feels like a real holiday.

You know, so yeah, it was amazing.

Claire, what was your worst of the week?

My worst was a very unexpected emotional breakdown.

I mean, both our bests are baby, obviously, because it would be rude not to say.

Which I'll get to because I've got a specific lunar best.

But Jesse hasn't had that third or fourth day baby blues that everybody talks about,

that you have a day where you just cry.

She hasn't had that.

And for some reason I did.

So I spent all of yesterday, my day where I had so much work to do.

I just cannot explain how much work I had to do.

And I just sobbed.

I heaved.

I felt like I was going to vomit from how hard I was crying.

And then I didn't really sleep because I stayed up for hours

looking at videos of Luna and crying.

I know this is out of order, but that was also my worst.

It's what's wrong with us.

I cried all day yesterday.

It was day four.

I'm also being a sensitive little flower about lots of things in my life.

So anything sends me over.

But what were the tears about?

Because at one point I was used to go first.

So I was sobbing and sobbing and sobbing and couldn't work out why.

And, you know, I'm not necessarily a cryo.

So I was like, I don't know.

Like, I got to work through what is this?

And then it clicked.

And when I realized what it was, I turned to Rory and just absolutely lost it.

I think I'm crying because Luna isn't mine.

I think that's why I'm crying.

I think that's why.

Yeah, is that why you're crying?

Because I was crying.

And I said to Jace, our poor husband, I said to Jace,

Claire gets to just go over there whenever she wants and she keeps sending

me photos of Luna on her chest and I've only held her for like 30 seconds.

And I feel like I can't go over there and Jace is like, but it's OK.

There'll be plenty of time.

And then she won't remember like the chance to bond with her and be gone.

Oh, my God, I think I had this huge thing of like, she's not mine.

So I'm not allowed to just see her whenever I want.

I'm not allowed to just like Jesse and Luca have to establish their own routine.

And that's hard because she's feeding all the time.

And like, I'm not entitled to like photos and videos whenever I feel like them.

Yes, even though I want them.

And there's a weird heartbreak in loving something so much that is not yours.

It's not. She's not mine.

And there's boundaries between you and the thing that you love so much.

That's actually the best bit about it, people, you crazy people,

is that you get all the chance of love and cuddle a beautiful baby,

but you don't have to not sleep for 10 years.

This is actually an upside, not a downside.

Claire, you've got a whole night at the hospital with her.

I've literally I went and visited and the first few times I saw her,

I didn't even ask to hold her because I'm so conscious of not overstepping boundaries.

As I said, I think if it was my daughter, I would overstep them.

But because it's my son's baby, I'm just like so conscious.

And I know that I'm down the pecking order after you and your mama.

And I'm like, after that, obviously Lucas before that.

So I drop over food and I don't even knock on the door.

All I can do is buy things.

But that's not ultimately that satisfying.

You say that, Holly, but I have this weird compulsion of like,

I want to change her nappy.

I want to change her nappy.

And I am sure that you are going to get a lot of those opportunities.

We feel so hormonal.

It's five days.

It's five days, people.

You two, both of you need to.

She's a long game.

She's going to be around a long time.

When do you think Luca and Jesse might want to go away?

And you and I can just move in.

I'm counting down till Luca comes back to work.

Yes.

My best of the week was, I don't mean to brag, Mia,

but spending the night in hospital with Jesse the night after Luna was born.

So I remember saying on this podcast a few months ago,

I think it was my worst one week when I was feeling in that I was worried

I would never get to share a bed with Jesse again,

because our relationship would fundamentally change.

But that second night I hopped into bed with her.

I gave her a cuddle and we listened to Luna's guinea pig noises.

And we just talked and talked.

Jesse just kept saying, like, there's so much I have to tell you.

There's so much I have to explain.

And I was like, I know because she was so tired.

And I was like, I know you've got so you've got forever to tell me all the things.

But just staring at Luna.

And then if she kind of started to cry,

kind of take her for a bit of a cuddle so that she didn't wake Jesse up.

New Out Loud as we should point out that Claire is Jesse's twin.

There's some people in the Out Loud as Facebook group,

a lovely lady posted yesterday saying, I'm new to the podcast.

I'm a little bit confused.

I need some backstory.

So it's not that Claire, as Jesse's fill in during maternity leave,

just turned up at the hospital and climbed into bed with her.

I swear we have history, but that was my best.

It was like being close to my sister in a way I didn't anticipate.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, well, my worst you heard.

My worst was yesterday.

They're really emotional and everyone's like, he's so excited.

And I'm like, yeah, but like I'm actually I've been really weepy this week.

And it's also, I think, taking me back to

Luca and having him and that feeling and missing that feeling.

And yes, you know, there's something so magical

about those first few days and weeks where like, and just

I don't know where to put this and I don't have any role models for what this feels like.

And I've got no friends that I can ask because all my friends still have much younger kids.

Anyway, my best, though, is that while I was weepy yesterday on day four,

I think it was Jesse was not.

And she decided she texted and just went,

I really need to record the birth story for the out louders and I need to do it today.

And it was like, Holly had barely landed.

She just arrived home and I was like, oh, where are you?

Jesse needs to debrief.

And so we worked out what are we going to do?

We'll just do it on Zoom, essentially, and we've recorded it.

So out louders, we have a very special episode that we're going to drop for you next week.

You don't have to listen if you're not interested.

But Jesse really wanted to tell her birth story.

She was so adamant that you've all been through so much with her and her leg

and all of these things and she feels like your family.

And she said, I just have this urgent desire to tell because we were like,

oh, maybe in a day or she goes, no, it needs to be this afternoon.

So I was like, she's like a woman possessed.

It's so it was so lovely because obviously I was away

and I missed all the excitement of the birth, not that I would have been at the hospital.

Out louders also knew out louders.

I am the only member of this team who is not actually related to this baby.

But I was still very excited about it.

You practically jumped on.

Watching Jesse just reminded me of that love bubble of the first week of motherhood.

There is so much to come.

There is so much to happen.

So much has already happened.

But she is just like she's a different person, flying high, flying very high.

I want some of those hormones.

I know. So we basically just and I've experienced this before

when a woman starts telling her birth story, you can't interrupt her or stop.

So basically she we got every detail.

We interrupted a few times to ask some questions, but she really needed

and she kept saying, I need to get the details down before I forget them.

And I'm like, you won't forget them, sweetie. Don't worry.

But it was beautiful.

We'll be dropping that next week. That was my best.

Tone shift.

What makes me really happy at the moment is watching Chicken Shop Day

with Amelia DeMoldenburg.

It's a series that you can watch on YouTube or Instagram or TikTok.

I always get them on TikTok.

And if you haven't heard of it, you've probably seen clips of it

or heard jokes or references that have come from it.

So, for example, remember, I think it was during lockdown,

potentially just after lockdown that Louis Theroux went viral.

I do like music a lot.

I love all kinds of music, as long as it's groovy.

OK, but I know you can rap.

Well, I mean, I know you have rap, sorry.

I have rapped in a program I did a Weird Weekends episode about rap.

Can you remember any of the rap that you did?

My money don't jiggle, jiggle, it folds.

I like to see you wiggle, wiggle for sure.

It makes me want to dribble, dribble, you know, riding in my fear.

You really have to see it six feet, two in a compact, no slack.

But luckily, the seats go back and got a knack to relax in my mind.

I'm sipping some red, red wine.

The idea behind Chicken Shop Date is that it's an awkward date

in a very unfancy chicken shop with Amelia DeMoldenburg

and a famous person who might be a musician or an actor or a YouTuber.

And she's always shamelessly flirting.

So she's done Louis Capaldi and Ed Sheeran and the Jonas Brothers.

And she's deadpan and awkward.

And sometimes there's actual sexual tension there.

And sometimes she's just crossing a line.

So does she play a character?

Yes, yes.

And she says that it's like a more heightened version of who she actually is.

She's English, if you want some context, she's English.

So she's got that very, like, dry English vibe.

Her most recent episode is with Jennifer Lawrence.

And it's just so great because she has such a famous person sitting there.

And do you think she asks anything about her craft or anything like that?

No. Do you have a big family?

I have two older brothers.

Yes, they single?

No, they're both married.

Cool. Well, I'm interested.

I was just wondering. Yeah.

She now does red carpets for a lot of big events

and she just uses it to flirt with hot famous people.

And she knows all their star signs.

There's a great video of her with Andrew Garfield on a red carpet

and there is real sexual tension.

Hi. Hi.

How are you?

You might we must stop meeting like this.

I only ever want to see you.

What?

And I don't know, I don't know.

That's not the end of the sentence.

That's not the end of the sentence.

I only ever want to see you in these kinds of situations.

What about other kind of situations?

Not interested, not interested.

There's an element of truth to it that, yes,

when you meet a hot famous person, you also just want to flirt.

Do you know what's interesting is that I was listening

to Louis Theroux podcast this week and he interviewed her

and I'd heard of Chickenshop date, but I'd never quite got it.

What I loved about listening to that is she's really smart.

She's been doing this for 10 years.

She's so business focused and she's so strategic

about the guests she has, what she does,

and she's sort of very open and honest about it.

She once dated a rapper called H, I think from Manchester, maybe.

She dated him after doing a Chickenshop date with him,

but it only lasted a few days and she's pretty much been single for 10 years.

And she feels like she won't meet someone until she finishes the series.

She's really interesting.

And she scripts it all and it's just so incredibly clever

and it's tiny clips that just go viral.

So how can people watch it?

YouTube's best place I find.

Yeah, yeah, they're episodes that are YouTube first,

but you will probably come across the clips on Instagram or TikTok.

Just search Chickenshop date.

That is all we've got time for this week.

But if you're looking for something else to listen to, why don't you?

Oh, my God, I can't wait, by the way.

I have to break script to say when are we recording the next

and just like that recap that I am allowed to be on?

Because I have been shouting at you all while I've been away.

I need to get on this show.

Am I allowed on the show?

Yes. Good.

While I've been away, my lovely co-hosts,

Mia and Claire and the excellent Laura Brodnick have been recapping

and just like that.

And episode four is up now.

The link to it is in the show notes.

I can't wait to be on.

I am in love with that show now.

Thank you for listening, my friends,

to Australia's number one news and pop culture show.

This episode was produced by Emily Casillas

and Susanna Makin with audio production by Leah Porges.

And we'll see you on Monday.

Bye. Bye.

Shout out to any Mum, Mia subscribers listening.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.