GameStar Podcast: Was ist bei Cyberpunk 2077 schiefgelaufen? - Wir sprechen mit CD Projekt

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I hope that's not as bad as Mal and Mal's CD Projekt told us really exciting things about

the release of Cyberpunk 2077 about the problematic release and about what has been done in-game.

And now also in the add-on Phantom Liberty and in Cyberpunk 2.0 in the free upgrade will do.

In this sense, apologies for the tone and hopefully a lot of fun anyway.

2019, do you remember the year 2019?

It came to me one day earlier than we had just been yesterday and on the other hand, as

would that be the most distant past when we still had such powdery backpacks and phones

that still had big pink pockets in them.

In 2019, we were last time on a community party of CD Projekt to broadcast together,

of course, about Cyberpunk 2077 at the time.

And now we all know that Cyberpunk 2077 had a heavy release, but we are four years

later back on your community party, on the community party of CD Projekt, back from

the joyous release.

Because soon not only the first DLC with Phantom Liberty, but also Cyberpunk 2.0, a new

and better Cyberpunk, what would I call it now, we will talk about it right away, what

exactly that is, we will also talk about what exactly happened at that time and what

also happened in the meantime in these four years since 2019, what was just yesterday.

For that, of course, the moderation capital, as I learned from the YouTube comments,

Sheraleen Homan.

Hello.

Hello.

In 2019, it didn't even happen to me.

I've only materialized since I'm in your podcast team.

I've been materialized in the Game Store team since I was there in Anno 2020.

Yes.

And at that time, you saw this community talk round that we did in our Gamescom docu.

I saw that.

And it wasn't scared of.

No, I'm still here.

Okay, I'm proud of you.

With us here is of course the area of ​​the undead, who was also involved in the Cyberpunk

test at the time.

Hello, Maurice.

Then you yourself were a little undead, but I don't think he's as undead as the fourth

in our round.

Yes, every time I meet him, he has one more title.

He was last time, originally he was a level designer, then he was a senior level designer.

Now he is a level design acting lead.

I didn't have to read that right now.

No, that was so smart, Micha.

I'm so proud of you.

That was so good.

Yes, that was nothing to write.

I just had to fall into it.

It's nice that we see each other again.

I'm glad to be there.

I think it's where you just said that back then the technology was also much older.

I remember that.

Yes, that's a topic that I see through this whole thing.

The technology.

The technology.

Yes.

Destruction and, I don't know, outdated technology.

Yes, nothing works.

No, never heard of it.

The second reason for this fair is that people throw things at other people.

I can say it live here in the podcast.

Micha threw me on the fair with trash.

That's how far it has come, after I brought him a snack.

I agree with that.

That's true.

So it seems that every year on the Gamescom there is a new scandal.

After the story last year in Halle-Arst, we have now also broken a wall again.

Yes, and now you're so sorry, but I heard that you, our boss David,

hit glass with your hand, especially yesterday.

Strongly.

Yes, but obviously.

Yes, the mood is exciting.

Yes, yes.

You can see it.

It cooks everything.

Yes, it cooks.

Have you ever thought about it?

What would it be if criminals were unable to look into your head?

In Cyberpunk, something like that happens.

And I imagine it very ugly, because they would then know all my secrets.

For example, that sometimes I secretly take scenes from Star Trek with a finger tip.

It's not that important now either.

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You can find the link of course in the show notes.

And now it goes on with the podcast.

But tell me, I mean, that's of course the question that drives us all.

Talking about Cyberpunk now, talking about the release back then,

talking about the conditions that came out on the consoles,

especially what went wrong, what happened back then?

That's the short story.

Please put it in one by one.

Yes, exactly.

So that we can clip a short video out of it.

Wow.

Yes, so I think through the laughter and the comments,

it's not an answer that you can just give.

That's a lot.

Somehow not as running as it should have been.

And it sounds like that without being beautiful now.

But it's absolutely not.

I also think that it was a really unhappy chain of events for us.

At the same time, of course, the launch date on the,

especially on the, how do you say, last-gen consoles already?

Yes, we sometimes say that too.

That's what you said now.

No, we loved them.

Yes.

The Xbox One.

At that time.

Yes, it's been a while now.

Yes, that's just really super heavy.

Because we originally had, to call it one factor,

we originally had the plan to publish the game

so that we wouldn't land there from this next-gen area.

And we actually wanted to release it earlier.

And how I know that is the problem,

for example, that from a certain point of time you had moments

where the platform operators themselves then also wanted

that when the game came out, that at least with compatibility

then on the new consoles came out.

And unfortunately it's not like that, that it's just a switch

that you run like this and now it runs on the PS5.

Yes, PS5 on.

That's what you do then.

Nice verse.

Is it really an act?

Yes, exactly.

We know that.

And yes, that's the funny thing too.

There are also rules like, for example,

with Sony you can't play any game,

that's the same with Microsoft.

You can't play any game just for the PS5 Pro.

It also has to go for the base version.

And you can also understand why that's the case.

But to go into the complexity of it,

even there, where you would think it's one system,

the one has a bit more influx behind it,

but basically it's both PS4.

Now some things where you have such a bug,

it only exists on one of both platforms.

And still, implementation is all the same.

And then you really have a lot of energy

that flows in there to see where it comes from,

what can you do, is it code-based?

And of course there is a typical bug fixing process.

And now you have to imagine that through the delay,

actually the idea was to say,

okay, we want more time to solve the work that we have.

But unfortunately it was never that easy,

because in the end we got a bit more work.

And in the end I think we had between 8 and 9 platforms.

If we had PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, all the Xbox consoles,

Stadia was also part of it, PC.

And if you think about it now,

the fact that bugs only occur on one platform

is already a huge burden on work.

And then we are sometimes slipped into it,

because there is simply one obligation of the other,

and then you have to do that,

which of course is not an exception.

In the end it should be,

but the other thing that I also find very interesting,

because I'm not in the processes,

but of course I am aware as someone in the industry

that there are a lot of complex processes taking place.

Every time we open the door, the music is always louder.

Yes, this music, what does it do?

Well, in any case, it also depends on such a release,

a lot more than just saying,

now the game is coming out,

now you can download it,

then there are deals with publishing partners,

distributors, for example,

and then of course also brand deals,

and marketing campaigns that not only come from us,

but also from chains, for example,

GameStop or something like that,

everything is coordinated and timed.

And then also things like that,

CDs have to be pressed,

and then they have to be delivered all over the world.

And if you then have such a postponement,

then everything is thrown away.

So I think you can imagine without a great expert

that there is such a release,

so such a delay is really expensive.

Well, and you really have to survive five times

to do that, especially if you don't do it long enough.

And then there are also such specialties

with the Börsen situation in Poland,

is that taking it with a grain of salt,

because I am not a finance expert,

but there is a situation that everything that is important,

everything that is important,

everything that is important,

everything that is important,

everything that can have an impact on the action course,

has to be communicated in public.

What does that mean, that if we have such a delay

that we have to work with new release data

or something like that,

it has to be broadcast immediately.

We can't drag it around internally for long,

or something like that.

What then means that such a delay

is decided by a very, very small circle of people,

and then suddenly comes,

also for the developers.

And sometimes there are situations where you think,

you hope that, but you are still full on course.

And then the team meeting comes

and in the end you know that it will be delayed.

And then in five minutes,

or maybe even in the meeting,

the press department is already out.

I was actually there once, when it was postponed.

Was that the delay in December,

when I was with you in Berlin

and we played Cyberpunk?

Exactly.

And then you saw the mood,

how we all surprised each other,

very serious and so on.

So it's not just these things,

but that's how it goes on with the partner.

So also so briefly and these are,

yes, okay, so all the plans,

we also have to adjust everything.

And now imagine,

you have all these partners and a lot of money

and now you have to sit down

and make the decision.

Do we play it a fourth time?

Or do we bring it out now?

And where is the greater damage there?

And that's just a decision

that I would never want to make.

I thought you decided that.

Yes, very alone.

Now you've got me.

And just how many lives are there.

Because you have to think,

okay, what impact does it have

on the financial situation of the studio

and all the heroes who are paid there

and of course also on the morale of the team,

who are already on the sprint.

And then you say, yes, we have to

put the money a little further back.

And I think what's there

is actually a negative calculation

for us.

That we didn't say consequently

for the first time or even for the second time,

maybe even for the third time.

We take the data out for the first time

and do it for the first time.

And these are things that

are behind me, you can always say,

obviously, but at the moment

there is just so much together.

And then you have to

take care of it.

So I can't call it a number.

But you just have to think about it.

You can probably calculate

what the costs of

something like that

would have been from the fourth delay

and how bad

the backlash was

and how bad the cost was.

So maybe

as a developer, I got a lot of money

and it was of course

really bad, but it's just a question

of how fast I live as an internet user

and whether

the costs

would have been calculated.

Sometimes the worst storm,

the worst.

We still have people who always came

but then you really had

a half-year storm and it was shit

and then the people went on

and then the next

one came.

Wow.

There is someone, an old veteran

of the gaming industry,

who is cynical because of many fights.

Yes, yes.

And they are sitting on it.

Wow.

I'm not that old

and cynical yet.

You are not that old and cynical yet.

You see, the developers

are always like that

in the gaming industry.

At first

I made a video

where I broke a lamp

for ugly devs like you

and that's how I thought.

Yes, no, then I want to go

on the record.

All game developers are ugly scam artists

and this man is very special.

He was also alone,

sorry, to all the problems

also the Witcher 3 console versions

Cyberpunk,

actually to everyone.

Witcher 1 at the time.

I don't think you were there.

That's true, that's true.

But also Witcher 1 has some problems

that we want to leave to you.

Yes, that's true.

But still I have to say,

it was an impressive Maurice impression

of you.

Maurice is really great.

Yes, your Maurice is 10 out of 10.

That's a shame.

They are connected to me.

Yes, it's a revolution.

I want to defend myself

but

if you have such friends,

it's also a strategy.

It's unfortunately an absolute truth.

It's much heavier to defend yourself

than just to attack someone else

and say,

okay, my politics

is maybe shit,

but if he is elected

then the hut will really burn.

Because he does

then he offers you your schnitzel.

That's true.

How okay is that now,

when we turn it into such a table here?

It's almost the same.

I mean, here were the people

who put this round table in here.

You know exactly what you're doing.

That always makes tableware,

but I can ask a very serious question.

You are at fault.

We would like to have four culls.

I have no chance anymore.

No, I'll just ask the serious question.

What interests me

especially in the context of Cyberpunk 2.0

how much time

would you have had or needed

when the release was

that you said

that would make you happy

if it was six months in one year.

Exactly, you have to

have a hard time.

You can't ask that

because they say

I'm sorry, I'm afraid.

What should I do?

I just had

an interview with a developer

from Warhammer 3.

You asked him

if it doesn't feel like a whirlwind

after ten years,

part three.

Now we'll do a re-work again

because we already have three re-work

and nine more questions and he said

that's totally awesome for me as a game developer.

I can do so much iteration

over years.

Do you want unlimited time?

Do you have a question

from a questioner?

I'm trying all the time.

Go!

Do you know what

the room is rising to your head.

That's really...

Thank you all.

Do you watch it as well?

Yes.

As a practitioner.

No, it's

a very, very interesting question

because

especially in the background

we would like to have

unlimited time to develop

until it's done.

I personally don't think

it's good.

I don't know

how many of you

tend to have

perfectionism

because you always

find something to do.

If you don't have

then you always do something new

and start again.

I talked to

Miko by our localization director

and

he said that

our voice cast

in the

expansion, the German voice cast

sounds much better

because sometimes more

experience has been collected

in the time.

What is your own language

in Leibach?

You already have it.

Everything is clicked here.

I like

Stammtisch-Muris.

Much better.

We just learned

how to develop

a voice model

in AI.

We then publish that

so that people

can hear the sounds

from the bass.

A dev with Leib und Szene.

Always new features.

We come back to the question.

New features

are also great.

When we look at

things to push

we do a lot with NVIDIA

the path tracing

when we are in the technological

area.

It's

a lot of fun.

Of course it's tough but if you

get the first toy

that no one else has

and then you can push

and set new standards

then the developer's heart will open.

It's not just about technology

but also about design

and ideas.

We are now

in front of the question

of our current project.

What do we do next?

What do we do next?

What do we do next?

It's really hard to say

because

we could say

we needed almost 3 years

for the Aldi patches

and 2.0 and

the expansion

but it was

an open heart.

The game is already out

and that makes

the development much slower

than if we didn't

launch it.

Because you have to fight

with a lot of regression.

If you open up a system

and fix a bug

then there are

those things that you know

because you have a bug

and now you have 10 bugs.

It's not untypical

and there has to be

a lot of time and energy.

Our patch processes go into

the fight against regression

based on the original

and you always have to test it.

Is everything that was

still healing or do you have to

do something now?

Or was

the engine

a special beast?

Last year

the message that you want to

continue with the Unreal Engine 5

was the red engine beast?

I wouldn't say that.

Of course

every proprietary tech

is out there.

We have one thing in common

that the developers

are

constantly working on a construction site.

What

has an advantage is that

you can of course make your own wishes

and then cut for yourself.

Not only on your

own work flows

but also on the games and

technologies that you want to do.

But the disadvantage is that

you also have to fight against

the fact that the thing is

unstable because new features are

being built or

there are always

Markels there.

The comparison is always

to make the developer like that

and that's not just for us.

In the worst case

you are on a railway

but you are in front of the rails.

That's how it feels sometimes.

The red engine

has a lot of technologies

that don't exist

in a different way.

Our open world streaming technology

our Realtime Global Illumination

I don't know

if it's a wild project

but it doesn't have

a different studio.

There are technologies that are

really awesome and

we are now trying to

reproduce

in Unreal

but

but

I almost lost the question.

That's what I'm talking about.

Let's see if it's going to be late.

You just have to lie in front of the rails

while you talk.

That's what I'm talking about.

That's how I live

my life.

I'm on the Games now.

In any case

it's there

we have great technology

but it's also a huge

effort.

The bigger the effort

the more expensive it will be

for us.

The idea when we switch to Unreal

is that we could have

a solid base

which is stable

and all the resources

that we normally put in the rails

can be used

to improve the train.

These things

are special

especially for us

and

you can

put the resources in the rails.

Okay.

I would like to know

what you anticipated

what would happen

at the launch.

How did you feel

when you thought

we had our best

and also the PS4 version

we already had

a little bit

you thought, oh god

they will all hate it completely.

I think developers often have

new rotors.

I just had a story with Fabian

how you showed him

that Fabian, we can

not bring Latent Wine out.

We had to shorten it so much.

It's way too small.

People will hate it.

What was the mood

for you and the team

at the launch?

To stay in Blallen Wine

it was really catastrophic

because

we had a day

where we had to cut

and rescope.

We thought

from our point of view

we cut 50% of the planned content.

And of course

there is a big expansion

and we had to think about it.

No, we had to cut it.

Look at you.

It was crazy

that he drove us.

If you put it in

and put it in

it feels quite catastrophic.

But we want our fans

something good.

Sorry,

can you repeat the question again?

Where did you expect

what would happen at the launch of Cyberpunk?

To be honest,

I thought

it wouldn't be that bad.

It's because

as a level designer

I don't have

much insight

into the console style.

It's easy

because it's quite irrelevant

for my work.

I build my level and script

and my enemies

and the only thing I do

is to keep Red Engine

very designer friendly.

The only limit I had to

deal with was

an NPC limit.

That for active fighting NPCs.

It's not like

in the city we can render a lot

but people who are smart enough

to fight cost more

performance.

We had a limit of 16%

per fight.

It's good but

it couldn't be active.

That was the only limit

I had to deal with.

I had a few moments

where I really fought.

For example

now I'm sweating a bit

but I'll try to keep it short.

What are you talking about?

I don't know if it's difficult

but this shopping center

has shown you a huge location

and the full effect

to keep this limit

was so hard

and there

a lot of

creative and active scripting

where NPCs

are switched off

from time to time.

There's a moment when the door is

behind you and you can't get out of it

and then it's like

everything you didn't kill

is despawned behind you

and you can't look back.

Especially because the location

was so bad.

In any case

I didn't have much

to do with the console version.

On the press events we had

we always had the PC version

because it's the best version.

You want to promote it.

The console version

of course I wasn't aware that they were not so good

but I was

absolutely aware of how bad they were

and it was like

I had this naive hope

that the people

who were responsible for it

will be able to handle it

because I know that they are good and they are.

Second,

Witcher 3 wasn't that good

at the launch

but it was like that.

And

there was the hope

and it was really...

I'm really at the evening

we had this launch event

because it was digital

because of the pandemic.

I went to bed

and I was happy

to read the feedback

on Twitch or Twitter.

I woke up the next morning

and I saw my DMs

and it was

something different.

It wasn't what I expected.

I was really excited

about Fabian

and I was like

what's going on?

But

she wasn't good at it.

What are you doing?

You sit down

and say

I didn't...

It was really mixed

and very disappointing.

It wasn't unbelievable

but I was really

surprised that

it was approved

without knowing

but

the first thing you see

is so emotional

you don't think rationally

and

one thing

in the frame

it's

really unhealthy.

You read everything

and you see everything.

That's

really dangerous.

Anyway

I got a code

and looked at the PS4

and

it wasn't a good experience

to see it.

I saw the console

and it was

the PS4 Pro

and the next-gen

compatibility

and it was cool.

But

I don't want to

experience it again.

What's

changing now?

What has changed?

What was

the first thing you noticed

in the studio?

When you found yourself together

what's next?

A lot of work

was created.

It was

a bizarre time.

We had

a lot to do with the internal leaks.

It was a good time

for the studio

to have

reliable e-mails

and so on.

They were well-meaned

where you have to

travel again and say

let's do it again.

And then

there were

a lot of delays

and

a long e-mail spread

started to

reverse the leaks

and how many developers

started to

say

it's like shit

and there was a huge break

between the

management

and the developers.

But

it won't get better

by having reliable information

and so on.

It will get better

by giving

everything to me.

And

the developers

said let's

travel again

and not

continue to travel.

And

the result

is that we are

not done yet.

We will probably

be able to

evaluate

our games

and

especially

in terms of crunch.

The whole overtime

topic

is not only mental

but also physical.

So

I don't know how long it is

because we are now

from Waterfall.

We are now

completely focused

on agile work.

But for us

it makes a lot of sense

because the core

that came out of it

is that

there is a lot more

autonomy

and ownership

is the word

in which the developer

is influenced.

Nowadays, we work

less in large teams

that work

in larger content blocks

but rather in smaller groups

that have smaller chances of playing.

For example, if we look at the expansion

it has several main quests

and every main quest

has a relatively small

multidisciplinary team

that can

work almost completely

autonomously

that works

by having

our writers

we know where we want to go

but then the team

says

you have to implement this part

before we

implement it

and then the director

and the leads

take a

accompanying role

because the job

is good and fits

in the overall vision

but

it's a pity that the thing is not out yet

because you would like to

talk about the content

but we have

I worked on one quest

that we would have

never been able to do

under the old Red Zone

and it is also a complete novel

for our games

I'm looking forward to it

I really don't want to

take away the surprise

and we are very proud of that

we also have to fight a lot

especially because it is so different

but the team comes there

because

we show you that it works

the crew works together

how to pitch it

what exactly they have to implement

so that it comes over

which elements you have to work on

and

therefore also from the developers

we have these huge milestone planning

processes

where it was before

to give the director

what has to be done

and now it is

that the director

set relatively vague goals

we want the game

in this state

is to the point that

it should be completely playable

when we develop the quest

and

the teams themselves

think about what we have to do

to achieve that

which work steps are exactly

and we will then

accurately determine

how much time this work effort

would cost

and then we give it back to our director

and say

can we do it in the time frame

or can we not do it

the team will not make the decision

ok, watch out

if you want to have all of this

then you either have to extend the time frame

because it does not fit

or you have to decide for less

here we make the decisions

we work with the outcome

but there is this exchange

and that works very well

for us, the expansion is completely established

we are in such a situation

crunch

to complete

to avoid

to not have

and

we also have very bad processes

that

make it difficult to do

that was sometimes a bit too harsh

in that sense

if

you always have a situation

where one is really excited about it

or is just in his flow

and he would like to use an hour

or something like that

and even that we could not do for a long time

because we are so focused

that it is very difficult

we have so many

if you want to do an hour

you have to

we have a tool for it

you have to find a request

for the exact hours

and reasons why

and then as a lead

I get this notification

and then I have to do it

when I do it

this information goes

I have such an overview

how many hours it would be

how long you do something like that

then goes to

my boss

who actually sees that Miles has an overview

and if there are too many

there is also a limit

then I will be responsible

because there is too much

and so far

I had to request

I think only once

because

then really

and I know it myself

sometimes you have to be so crazy

but

we try to

always say to Miles

maybe it is not so important

maybe we can do it differently

and then

when these tracked hours are not only paid

or paid out

but also as

close to time

as holiday days

and I think that is

a relatively healthy means

that we have now found

it was really at the beginning

that if we had an overview

before we had this request tool

then you have it directly

from your lead

from the producer, from HR

and so you were contacted directly

and said hey nice

very very good

so to speak

it is definitely

the scale is

the scale

all these

the

the terrible situations

it is now

that there was never a better time

in our studio

to be there

and remote office we do

also complete

so it is

the perks

that you have as a CD project

you also work on great projects

and as a developer

of course it is also fun

to get the money

and also to get the time

then something like the 2.0 update

to be used

and also so much time

so you have to think about it

we are working on the expansion for almost three years now

so Witcher

two expansions have been launched in a year

but that was also under great crunch

crazy

when the plan was created

for this update 2.0

so you started to think

ok we want to

like before the enhanced editions

with the Witcher games

we want to put

such a last milestone

and what comes in

when did it start

I think the Elan

was always pretty early

I think what really helped

is that we saw

that the first bigger patches

that we got out

that every patch

improved a little bit

and I had

I don't even know who told me

because I told you

that we really almost fanatically

look at all our metrics

for example the Steam User Reviews

and every percent

point of the upgrade

is now very, very positive

and

it's like Maurice at YouTube Likes

yes

it's really like that

of course

to see and watch

and to notice that the work

that you put in there is so worth it

all like Micha Graf

I have a YouTube channel

that is completely gone

in the sense that I'm not like that

Maurice is like that

I'm just for art

we do that

we can be

super rewarding

super positive

or if it doesn't go well

but if it goes up

that's when you see the effect

of hard work

that's important

because when you sit and work hard

and you have a release

or you have a different feeling

that doesn't bring me on

that doesn't bring us here

that's very bad

and then we have to

have to

we have to

have to

have to

have to

have to be better

so that we can deliver

our content to the quality

because you want to improve

the base game

and I hope you can see that

because you said that

I had a police chase

in Phantom Lover Tree

with this Bargast Söldner

who takes over the police

role

but they drove into cars

and shot at me

and I can shoot back from the window

what is that for a game?

a better game

but honestly

that's a thing

where I think

it doesn't really need it

because Cyberpunk 2077

even without the police chase

it's a great game

a great experience

but it was one of the things

that got a lot of requests

from people who always said

hey you drive through a city

that's a very strong GTA

and we are used to

being able to teach this anarchy

from the police chase

was it really a thought

to say we want to fulfill this wish

for the people?

and the other thing

that we said

we really need to work on some systems

so that we can have it

in the expansion

and stuff like that

and then we thought

if we open it now

how do we

give it to people

just as expansion content

or whatever it is

of course we will make it

more expensive

and now it will cost

as I said

as much as it costs

and then you get a really

awesome version of what's up there

but that was also too stupid

and also before the background

that we are the ones who have something to prove

we said hey cool

then just let us update

and then

really here

how do we say we have a butter at the fish

and just a little

and then we really started

really active there I say

to find out what you do

read a lot of community feedback

where do you press

and there I say

this expansion just increased

and I'm really happy

that it worked like that

because some things have

as typically with us

or maybe even in life in general

thought we have a few things

a little easier to imagine

that is never

what we thought it would be easy

but there are

moments where we thought

that is a thing

which we haven't really calculated

that we have to take care of

because for example what do you do

when you play the basic game

and the police trigger

while the

I'm spoiling a little bit of the basic game

while the follow up

after the parade

and now you have to

what do we do there

in that case we even have

the whole quest

in the autonome in this system

but

then there are so many presidents

we have to take care of

when you talk to an NPC

and then the police tell you how it is covered

when Jackie is standing there

waiting with his noodles

and then something happens

so we had to make a whole pass

and then really

to see that it doesn't break

through our good community

and

then you have to say

but when we have these

vehicle hunting

then the traffic has to react better

because that doesn't work

if the people don't go out

and so on

there was a patch

so small updates

but now we have to take care

they also have to cover themselves

when there is such a car

and you see

there is such a chain of features

that then just like oh shit now we have to do that

we have to do that too

now we can also call it 2.0

or something like that

what I wanted to ask there

that fits to this whole topic

vehicle chase hunting and police and so on

I imagine that it has played a huge role

for you that you just

were not at home in the setting

so you had a lot of time

to get used to medieval fantasy

and modern settings like cyberpunk

and cities work completely differently

so alone something like how cars work

in the world, how mini maps work

in the city differently

than just driving

in such a fantasy village

it has played a huge role for you

or that you just couldn't use

the experience from which you were

absolutely, so that has

also it was exciting

also for the first person

so the change

level design is much more complex

there we are

probably with such a certain naivety

because we just thought a little bit

hey people, we actually

want to build on the success

of the Witcher, we know how to do RPGs

we know how to do Open World

we basically do that

setting and cooler

and then we make a new dialogue system

and build some other things and we push

every feature just further than it was in Witcher

and

from that point of view, you can

maybe understand a little bit why we

decided to not really build a police system

because in Witcher 3 we also didn't really need it

we have such a very basic

so how do you stand, then you can

box a weapon and then it was somehow like that

and we said from that point of view

yes, the focus is not on

the story and the quest

and we actually didn't want

sandbox armor to run here

because it wouldn't fit the character

it's not indescribable

and

we got annoyed

but it also

is a bit

the progress in the game development

in itself, because

with additional time

the standards and

the expectations, the minimum expectations

and no one expects nowadays that

the loading screens

will always be raised

and

there will be a time when you

are still playing as a game that you have a loading screen

and you think

why do you have loading screens

and so it is

with the feature that

at some point you

expect a certain degree

of realism and simulation

how we have determined painfully

and

yes

the cool thing

is that

we couldn't

use special features from Witcher

or there the experience

but generally the direction

for example the

cinematic or film approach

to the dialogue system

that is based on the experiences we

did with Witcher

the

what else was there

generally how we write

romances and what roles

the relationships are not only romantic

but also have to other characters

again on a different level

compared to Witcher 3

and that was

a tragedy for me at the launch

as a designer

who has something to do with performance

that is

if you look at it

from our point of view how we looked at it

then you can say objectively

that actually every single feature

has done a

evolution

the crowds are

better than in Witcher 3

we have more people who have

reactions, Witcher 3 was

much more primitive, the dialogue system

of course

generally

we have a character

that you can create

you can create the clothing system

and everything in comparison to Witcher 3

so much more

RPG options

much more than in

Witcher 3

but then the game comes

in a broken state

on the base console and

nobody talks about it

it took a really long time until we

saw that people

talked about the designs and the quests

the qualities of the game

and that is where

really the passion

as a level designer, quest designer

game designer is

because there are so many thoughts

and

that probably

was the thing that pulled me down

most of the time

which quests are particularly cool

which moments were great

and of course you always hope

taxis, element taxis

dude, I learned something today

yeah

then you had to ask Miko Eimer

later

dude, yeah

I learned something there

yeah, well, the...

can Miko Eimer talk about it later

ask him about the Delavane

Taxi Quest

I found out that

I went from the same

expectations

in my expectations as you

in the original development

and I think that's why I wanted

despite some critical points

more than

because also regardless of the technical

there were some

critical points, partly very loud

disappointed expectations

and me, as someone who is

much more a Witcher fan, as a GTA fan

they just went on like

hey, what? Police, I don't care

I wanted a Witcher in a cyberpunk

universe and in better

and that was actually a lot more

you don't even need the GTA frame

a simple person with a simple dimension

just one of the best

APGs ever in a more complex setting

in better

I didn't want more and this simple

task you delivered

in a way

thank you for saying that

as a real observation

I would also underline that

especially for our fans

who come from Witcher

I would also

observe that the people who

instead of playing with the Witcher

or because they played Witcher 3

they really came

to their costs

of course we also try to

expand our audience

because it's the people who

didn't play Witcher before

the first game and then

expected GTA

they of course were disappointed

but then you have to say

of course we are always warned

we can go back to Fabian

Fabian is there, where is he?

back there

but

we didn't have the claim

as a developer

to do that

how was it for you as a developer

did you observe

oh shit

either for self-employment

or even the other departments

selling something that we don't

do in that sense

I hook up and do my Witcher quests

and Fabian

hooks up and turns the people into GTA

so I can't develop

was there this kind of disconnect?

imagine

that you

put your heart and blood

into one thing

and really burns

and realizes that the whole world

finds that cool

and wants to play that

and really has the value

that the whole world is hyped for

so I think

if you try to

put yourself in the position

then you can probably

understand what I hope

when I say no, you're screwed

it's hard

to keep the ground

so

you have to say that

so you walk around

and that's

God's will again

but you walk

you were

there in E3 2018

when we were at Keanu Reeves

and you meet Keanu Reeves

but that too

and then

the snake on the E3

you can't imagine that

people in the world

who never had anything to do

they tried to

get into our presentation

and you walk with a cyberpunk t-shirt

from Hideo Kojima

who wants to take a picture with you

and you sit there and say

okay, I'll start to understand

how you can lift something up

and you sit there with the colleagues

and the game is like

it's not a bad game

and you have a bus show

and all that

it was also fun

he had a lot with the community

and

there were also great things

and

but

especially from the point of view

that the area where you work

you know what goes in there

how much energy flows in there

and that it's really paid attention to

because the quests weren't

or even the levels

they weren't necessarily

then

you can easily say

I think that's really good

I wouldn't say

that they walk around and say

fuck yeah, best game ever

we have a video of you

that's why I'm too much a developer

because you can see

the mistakes on your own

everyone who draws will know that

so I would

I think

it's always a bit

we've seen it in other games

it's always this

there can be

a lot of expectations

depending on what you show

and how you show

where people start

to wish

to play things they already know

like a GTA

when you say

there's a city

I'm waiting for a city simulation

or you say

as I said

we collected community questions

because there were some

in which I was asked

if this game really

is a

anatomically correct

survival simulation

in which I have to eat and

go to the toilet

I never asked this question in an interview

but those were things where people

saw this

that it's independent

in this game everyone gets wishes

and projects that you could have

the generation of the game

we always get there

who wants to go to the toilet

who wants to

did you confirm that

before your next game

but

I would also say

we had this interruption

with these 1000 NPC routines

in one podcast

where a

community member said

that it was meant well

we won't be able to build

1000 NPC routines

because we now have 12 million NPCs

so it won't be

handcrafted

for the English language

so we wanted to translate

how did you do that

because of Google Translate

and there

we had 1000 NPCs

and

once on the internet

where the main character is

that

flies away

and there is still

me

that was

Philipp

I was written

that you are the guy who said

that you are 1000 NPCs

but that's not true

we have

even more German devs

I have already drawn

and he didn't want to leak anything

I don't think that's okay

especially the person

who translated it

has also tried

to correct

the thread

but

the correction didn't work

Reddit

if Reddit

is bad

then you can't do anything

Twitter

especially

I don't know

because

we have to be careful

I can't read anything

because I only make video content

you can read a video description

that's true

are they still handwritten from you

or have you already picked them up?

they are all handwritten

I even add my discord link

but really

when we talked about the video

it was really cool

we also talked about it

I think it's always good

if you

want to reach one

to see that

it's not as black and white as our stories

but

everything is really complicated

the devs are always bad

and

in this discussion about the Baldur's Gate

and the devs are all scared

you can see that

it was a

very self-sufficient

discussion

that one of the devs said

that every studio can make a Baldur's Gate

which is a really correct statement

and

I think the problem was

that one of Diablo 4 answered

and said yes, that's true

and Diablo 4 is

in the public perception

and then it was made

look at it, finally Blizzard

said we don't want to

put in so much effort

because a private dev

made the narrative

and the devs were scared of Baldur's Gate

and I don't want to say

that I'm the biggest pro here

in the development mindset

but you just have to

talk to a game

and you know that

oh, a great art work

and a game has success

that's bad for me

because every dev

that I know

and I was just talking

to one of the devs

who said

Baldur's Gate is what we all want to do

a game that has a vision

that is brave

that deviates from the standard

and is really celebrated

and I did that as a video

but no, the devs are not like that

there are

industry-proof forces

please don't innovate

please be sure

but that's not the level designer

that's not the quest designer

who then thinks

oh shit, now the devs want to make good quests

like in Baldur's Gate

oh man

but it's a bit like the start picture

of Sabapunk and the other discussion

about that

ok, ok, ok, another question

last time I was on Twitter

because I really said

that there will be a hint after the other one

and then

I post the thing

and then 5 minutes later

the discussion begins

about the start picture

and I was like, what's going on?

you have to be like that

as a developer

but it's much more nuanced

and much more complicated

and I find it interesting

there is actually one fear

that's always the fear

in front of the other fat game

that might take place in your release time

that's the only thing

I can imagine

for us it was

of course it's a theme

when we look at Phantom Liberty

there was also a bit of thinking

ok, when do they want to publish it?

and how do we put ourselves in there?

I can imagine that all the games

that all the developers

use Dying Day

when they see you

in a similar genre

or in a setting

try to get as far as possible

I can also imagine

that some devs

very, I don't know,

angry, sad or something

that they already put their game

in front of Starfield

and then a very spontaneous Baldur's Gate comes

and says, we're coming too

and then it turns out

that Baldur's Gate is much bigger

than anyone else

everyone knew it

there will be a audience

it will probably be successful

but not one of the most successful games

on Steam ever level

and I'm really sorry

with all the developers

I don't know how Shadow Game is

it's a great game

I can imagine it very well

because it's also a top-down tactic

what Baldur's Gate is

in a certain way

that a lot of people say

especially in Act 1

after two weeks

I don't need any other game

I can imagine that

one game where

every studio has

absolute dreams

is of course GTA 6

nobody wants to

when it comes out

the speculations

that I know

because we always talked a lot about cyberpunk

when Shadow comes out

I can imagine that

I can imagine that

absolutely not, we shouldn't

strain this old room

rather than in October

and then you have the Call of Duty

in October and you're like

shit, you won't do it

that's a thing that

the developers do a lot

and the absolute super-gau is

when your release time is cool

but one of these games is destroyed

exactly, in Elden Ring

and that's why Horizon

was added

that's really...

some of the developers at Guerilla Games

and they were already at

Zero Dawn

with Breath of the Wild

they took it apart

it's a really good game

that's in the shadows of a better game

and this time

but also really what's bad about it

because

you really have to be really good

to update Horizon

and that you really

both times

we have a really fat 90's

but unfortunately

an absolute decadent title

now exactly on us

you could play less

you could completely destroy Horizon

but then it's

Breath of the Wild

and Elden Ring

exactly in the genre

and I really know

the developers

just because

Horizon

here, connected West

is in every area

better than the previous one

and you can really see

that people really thought

like, hey, how do we do this

cooler and better than the previous one

and they really wanted to prove something

and they also

didn't really listen to it

you have to say again

the internet debate

and I think that's what

you think

that you can't

express your opinions anymore

because there was this debate

oh, look, some designers have said

the Elden Ring user interface

is not perfect

and sorry, it's not perfect

this weird soul thing

I really like the Elden Ring

but this weird soul thing, which I think

everything in Soulsbikes is perfect

the camera management is flawless

it's never wrong

that's why it's good

the interface is always super intuitive

to work with

if you target it, you're really good

that's not true

the real Soulsfans, to whom I also count

hate everything about the camera management

and playing Souls

if you're really a Souls fan

it's a cut-off

that says on the second level

Soulsgames are perfect

Soulsgames have the worst

and worst hitboxes I've ever experienced

the camera is absolutely

terrible and I hate everything

next round

especially every time you make a boss

who's too big

but then the internet

was usually called Horizon

as an example

that's how you play shit

look

here's the Elden Ring

here's Horizon

everything is stupid

and bad and repetitive

and sadly Ubisoftic

in the game design

and I thought

what the fuck

just because I compare a 90s game

with a 95s game

that's so bad for Horizon

it's really difficult

because I'd like to be more open

about the whole process

and talk more about it

and give this context

in such formats

if possible

because

you can't tell us

about the polarisation

on social media

when I say

this Baldur's Gate

is exactly the topic

some people tried to

talk about it and bring the nuance

but it was like

you think Baldur's Gate is shit

or something like that

or you just don't know

how to play a game

that's not true

that's something like that

if

as a person

we could

talk a bit more

about it

then we would be able to learn

more about each other

I would say

this is an appeal to

local movies

but

it's not a beer

but it's really

who would like to be

roasted away

except you

and it's really like

if I have to be afraid

because I give a bit of context

there's a big scandal

it's a matter of condition

but at the same time

you also have problems

because no one wants to talk about crunch

because

this is also a

nuance topic

I already mentioned it

the people who are

in flow

or who are

excited about their work

that they want to get it done

and

if you can't

talk about it

then you don't hear about it

and then nobody talks about it

because

the other side doesn't know what to say

and the topic is

twice as complicated

because it's always like

if you think about

controversial issues in the game industry

you might want to work with other games

and then you look at it

and it's like

it can be a problem

complicated

I would like to

appreciate more in this context

maybe as a conclusion

that I really admire it

and I think it's nice that you

gather as a team and say

although everything was hard

after the release

and you probably had to do a lot

on a private level

but that you gather and say

we want to close it well

we want to get something out

we want to find a nice final

with 2.0 and addon

and we want to get something out

and I really think

it's a nice end for Cyberpunk

and a nice final

let's hope it's going to be good

it's just nice

I want half of the game

the party is already there

it's just nice

you also write

meta critic reviews

it's just 0 and 10

these are the last two questions

is it the end

for Cyberpunk 2077

could there be anything else

if Phantom Liberty is successful

or do you say it's the end

I would say

it's the end

we are full of

DCQ

we have

a new studio

because

from the background

I said

to hire people

to have a studio in the USA

to have a talent pool

where you only get a hard one

and they all come to Poland

and

we wanted

as a studio

to have 2 AAA productions

at the same time

that's our next evolution

and

we are leading everything

and I think that the expansion

to get involved

even if I don't

talk about hours or hours

because it's so subjective

in terms of

people who know

how we do expansions

they won't be disappointed

I think the thing is packed

because the 2.0 update

also belongs to it

everyone gets it

but in release time

we are also similar

and I think

that the whole package

can be seen

and it's not just

in terms of the community

what we think

what they should get from us

but at the same time

we

how we set our standards

and how we want to deal with it

because we don't want

if we

come up with the new Witcher

or Cyberpunk

that it will be so bad

but

we don't really see ourselves

we don't see ourselves as the studio

we don't want to be the studio

that's known for the broken releases

or something like that

and in that way

we have to say

that for us

the silver lining of the whole thing

is to reflect

and then to process

our own processes

and

then you can speculate

how would CD Projekt

if this never would have happened

who would

be such a great employer

we would have listened to the crunch

it would have been worse

for us if we would have come up with it

so that everything

would run smoothly and so on

we all got crunched and so on

same shit as everywhere in

soviet

I don't know

last question

a happy end for you personally

not that it would be your end

but the happy end

for me it's really

I've been working

for a longer time

than full time on the new Witcher project

tell us more

next podcast

we'll do another hour

we accompany the development

over the years in such formats

but

you already said

or your old ego

someone

by the way

on your twitch

how do you call it

a community point thing

so that you can activate it

so that you can talk

I want to suggest

or

so that you can give it

and then you can talk for an hour

anyway

it's still not out

and

I think

no developer

can trust

to lie the day before the evening

we are very confident

we brought the game with us

the people can play it and convince themselves

we have it here

we show from an expansion

an hour long demo

you have to pull in

from us

the game

the picture we have here

is actually more than 3 months old

that you played

and I hope you haven't seen it

it plays around

I would say

and we never had

so long before

the release

a product that was already so finished

it's still not perfect

but in the last 3 months

something has happened

we didn't just stop

the supply

is definitely there

and when it comes out

and our dreams come true

I would say

all is well that ends well

very nice

a very nice ending word

thank you for this round

thank you very much

always a party

because we always

we always party

how long is the game?

it's my watch after midnight

awesome

now you can play with Charin

after midnight

it was almost 24 hours

wake up

I felt like a healthy

work process

work is no longer dead

that's the topic

and I always thought about

a hot ones format

but it's about

getting the people as tired as possible

that was the idea

but you hold it through

we don't get it yet

it's the concept every time

if you are alone with me

and tell me for example 2 hours

what you are talking about

your ending word

it's really cool

you are

you are

almost only there

you only need an outlet

tell me more

yes yes

it works sometimes

I can totally recommend the Scaliance talk

coming to a GDC near you

exactly

at this point, thank you very much

thanks for watching

see you next time

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