198 Land med Einar Tørnquist: Ukraina del 1 med Jørn Holm-Hansen

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UKAS announcers are swan brands, can they be announcers? Yes they can, I actually

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Hi, Sand! Before we start, I just want to suggest that it is possible for you now

to take part in a quiz where you can win, play, turnquists quiz race that will start

in the 198 countries app and you will have to enter the quiz code U1

this is the first episode of Ukraina, so it is U1 for Ukraina 1

and then it is just a quiz, it is based on the episodes you will hear now

so hear it again about the episodes first, at least two or three times if you are

completely sure and then answer 10 questions there and the one who does the best

will get a game in the post

remember to go out, 198 countries app, U1, enter the quiz code, turnquists

then it was time for Ukraina people, so I know that many of you

wanted me to take part last year, but then it became Russia or Russia with

Attegrön and I thought it would be a lot to go straight to Ukraina

and it was good to get a little air in between so I could see what happened

in the conflict, there is a little more overview right after

and that is why I am waiting for now to write a guest

and when it was first to write a guest to Ukraina, I thought it would be fun to get

for example, doctor of science and research and Ukraina expert Jörn Holm Hansen

welcome

thank you

people are not sure that they know you from before

what are you dreaming of today?

I am a state secretary, I work in the city and region research institute Niber

where we have a department for international studies and migration

there we work a lot with Ukraines and migration

that is true

then it is a little bit like that?

yes it is a little bit like that, I am not involved in that

I work with other things with Ukraina and that part of the world

also around the country I work a lot with

Russia, Poland and so on

but a few years ago we finished a pretty big project

about Ukraina, about regional differences

and regional, national cooperation power

and then how do you get this country to hang together

when there are so many major regional differences

when there is language and understanding of Ukraina's history and so on

and we thought that the differences are not as big as they are often imagined

and people were interested to be together in this state

even though it was a little different, not a little different language at home

it is like that, in a way, under pressure you get together

while in a way you have a little freedom, it makes and shows a lot of people

yes, but it has actually been like that all the time

and Ukraina has not been under the same pressure as they are now

or came under in 2014 when the Crimea was annexed

and in the summer the Donbass was dissolved by separatists

with support from Russia

but it has been like that all the time

and you want to be together

even then you talk about being pro-Russian forces in Ukraine

and you talk about the military point in the oligarchs

and the population in the east and south of Ukraine

and you talk about Russian at home

and it is kind of like that, it is oriented towards Russia

but I think it is a little exaggerated

that I was pro-Russian

because they understand that I want to be a part of Russia

but I want to have a relaxed relationship with Russia

continue to read Russian books

Russian popular music, Russian TV shows

travel and trade

and seek jobs, work migration

Russia is perhaps the largest country in Europe

when it deals with work migrants

and not out of Russia's neighboring countries

and between 2-3 million people have traveled there

for work migrants since 1991

I want to talk about the other Ukrainians

who live in Russia

who followed what they were

a part of the United States

and it was work places and so on

around Ukraine and Russia

for example in North Russia

there have been many Murmansk-English

there are a lot of people

from North Russia and Ukraine

it is a little exaggerated

because I thought that

I do not know this situation well

but I thought that

the eastern areas had a long-term connection

to the fact that many people wanted to be a part of Russia

but it is more like a landmark

that they love their neighbors

yes, and they know more about Russia

than the people in Denmark

these people in eastern Ukraine

they know Russia

and Russia has not always been as poor

as it has been since 2012

it has been a relatively civilized country

from the year 2000

and the standard of living there

has been higher than in Ukraine

and it is a country

it is strange that it can be heard now

a country where many people have seen

a little more often

and at least seen

with the relaxed eyes

if you look at the metaphor

there are so many Russians

who are trying to have a lot of business

with Russia

there are not many who talk about it

because I have been called up all the time

so he wants to talk about Russian schoolgirls

every time a country wants to be taken

but they never play with Ukrainian schoolgirls

they have had influence

the Russian schoolgirls

have been under administration

since the year 2000

but the Russian schoolgirls

are rich

because they take

the big businesses

such as the Soviet Union

and the metallurgy

the work of metallurgies

they have not been interested

to become underage in Russia

because they want

to take the things

as they say

where they have influence

and control

but they want to take

an open front in Russia

because of their approach

to Russia

and to buy

their products

I get the impression

that the Ukrainian schoolgirls

have come to power

in the same way as the Russian

the Soviet Union has collapsed

this hyper-commercialization

where they would share

the same thing

but different differences

technically

but it was the same thing

where

at that time

around 1990

the neoliberalism was piqued

everyone believed

in the thesis

that was developed

and many in the world

in Russia

they had no such

insight into how things worked

in a capitalist country

they had learned that it was wrong

and they had a schematic

Marxist thing

and they had a completely different thing

and what they did

was

backroom talks

some kind of

business

some kind of

business

a bit of vodka

a bit of salt and cucumber

and with ministry

you could get

high demand for production

and then you could get

high demand for production

and then suddenly

capitalism would be

terrible, not natural

it would be a huge transition

and it is a bit different than

what they did in Poland

where it went more slowly

and where it was much better

without the

oligarchy

that you got in Russia

but

we privatize everything

we have capitalism and we have capital

but nobody

had money

to buy

anything

and it didn't have any promise

you have to take care of

the financial promise

that you have in the market

and it didn't have

the management system

that they had set and led

the big companies and had good contacts

and information

to take part

in the legal

vacuum that was

I think

we have a new record

how early we let it slide

today we have come to

ask questions about the pictures

on Twitter this summer

it was

not fair to live

at work as a colleague

it was

we drove around

we already had

new contacts

but when you say fair

it was actually very nice

we ate good

food

and drank hot oil

and it was nice

you were in Vest

and we were

in Råd and Ivano-Frankivsk

and we were in the city

but relatively at least

it was big

and big

it was one of the biggest in Hapsby-Rike

if you don't remember Hapsby-Rike

it was a pretty big country

it was

after Vienna

Bidapest, Praha and Trieste

that's what I'm saying

it was big

it was a bit from the camp

it was a bit from the camp

so it wasn't like

you felt like

you were thinking in detail

no

we had a flag

we didn't have

a single wing

but those who lived there

it was often

a wing

it was two days after I left Lviv

there was

a missile strike

where five people

hit a building

in the roof

it was

it was scary

it's pretty close to the pool

it's very close to the pool

it's close to the pool

and the areas we were in

are areas that

actually came to Ukraine in 1945

and had previously heard

that the pool was not there

but they were far

away from the worst camps

and that's what people do

to get more safe

in Norway we have a lot of

8 million people

who are travelling back and forth

so it's hard to say how many they are

but there were 8 million people

travelling out of the country

after the war started

but also 6 million people

who are internally affected

who live in other places in Ukraine

and they live in big cities

in this area

so there are some

needs

it's a drink on the trick

for children and for schools

and the community

doesn't have much money now

because the public sector

has to be responsible

so this is a little

thing

that I hope

in other countries

that will help the economy

in a 5 billion

per year

I hope that some of the

funds will help

in the community

and in the area of Ukraine

where this

big public press

is happening

for example in Bolivars

and Skihöje

Have you been to Ukraine many times?

Yes, I have been

to many places

in Ukraine

Have you been to Donbass?

No, I haven't been to Donbass

and it's a big concern

because I plan to

actually

with a bit of an original

holiday

But it's

it was

interesting

to talk about heavy cities

strong economy

and understand

the situation

in a way

it's fun to talk

with people

and now

it's not

possible to talk about it

but it's

very fast

to be misused

that

you support

separatism

What is the name of Donbass?

Is it Donetsk Basin?

Yes, Donetsk Basin

It uses

areas with

a lot of

a lot of

minerals and stuff

I don't know

about the old harbour

or the old sea

that's probably enough

I don't know

but at least

there are a lot of cool springs

that they found in the 17th century

That's right

and started to be used

by the Russians

at the time

they would try to modernize

for example

by building a railway

to the Mürmansk

1912 and Transibirsk

and so on

They needed fun

to drive the locomotive

they needed

to stand

there was a violent boom

in 17th century

there was a valiser

John Hughes

who had the experience

from Gulldrift

and who led the work

He was the one

who introduced football

to this area

Donetsk

or Sjaktjorda Njesk

who died before

and has roots

in the working culture

around the Sjaktjorda Njesk

who took the initiative

to build this area

and it was

an industrial heart

in the Sarusland

and the Soviet Union

came from the entire

Sar-Imperia

and the entire Soviet Union

a kind of

mixed population

and that's where

it's fun

and then there is the landscape

where the Ukrainian language

and the Russian language

and so on

Is it Russian or Ukrainian?

It's Russian and Ukrainian

Is there anyone who speaks Polish?

No, that's not it

It's not

I notice

that I have written a lot of people

who never come over

because it's very easy to talk

I think we should go now

into the fact of boxing

and then we'll take the history

and try to take a chronological

and we'll start with

the fact of boxing

The main thing

of boxing

is the basic

things

and

the main thing

is the basic

things

of boxing

and so on

in fact of boxing

I'm wondering

what the basic things are

And that's the main thing we started with. And it's called, of course, Kyiv.

Yes, because it's not Kyiv.

No, it's called in Russian, but it has been written in Ukraine for a long time that the official name is Kyiv.

Yes, because what did they say? If you read Kyiv in 2010, what did they say?

They asked who you talked to. I was there for a long time, and I noticed that it was a bit different.

Yes, exactly.

It was very much Russian on the street, but it had something much better with people from the university there.

And then they insisted on speaking Ukrainian, and then I couldn't speak Ukrainian, so they had a talk.

Yes, because there are so many differences between the languages.

Yes, because one of them is not the mother-child language, and some of them are relative.

I understand most of the part. I understand very often what they talked about, but not exactly what the conclusion was.

I understand that they talked about each other, but if they were against each other, I didn't always get along.

So one from Moldova and one from Malmö that met each other?

Yes, one from Moldova and Malmö that has never heard the other dialect.

I say that they are like Norwegian and Swedish, because I have spoken Ukrainian for Slavists on the line.

Have you spoken Ukrainian for Slavists?

Yes.

That was such an excuse to talk about that, but I mean that they are like Norwegian and Swedish.

And if you have been to Berlin or Paris, or you are Norwegian and haven't been exposed to Swedish,

you don't want to understand when they say Poyke and Flicka and Kawaii and with the French.

But if you are Russian and live in Ukraine and have heard it around you,

I would say that that is not a big problem.

It is a team that I would now start talking about in Norwegian.

It would have been a bit heavy, and I would have started to talk about it slowly.

But it is possible, and you can get used to it.

So it is not a very big problem to say that when you are in a community house,

and you are going to live in a search centre in the middle of the country, you have to fill a form in Ukraine.

I understand that.

Okay, but Kyiv is the capital of the city.

3 million?

3 million, yes.

And is it there now that the streets are closed with pigtro and sandbags and people are in search centers?

Or is it a bit of a common...

Since I was on a job tour in Ukraine, I have had a very busy working day,

so I was not allowed to go as far into the country.

So we did not go to Kyiv.

But I have talked to the people who have been there, and they tell me that we are sitting at a courthouse restaurant in Zola,

and why are the people so mild, and the police are still sitting there.

I have also heard that these police officers, or when you get a call from the phone,

they also say that you do not have to get injured.

You actually have to do that.

Yes, I have talked to the people who were there, and the police officers are going to the hospital,

and they also tell me that they do not want to get up when it comes to the night,

so I just go to bed.

So people are a bit...

Maybe a bit too little, I think.

Yes, quite a lot.

So you get a hit, and then we run away.

Yes, and it is not so good for those who are sent out to the hospital and say that this is completely safe here.

No, they have to be in front of you.

And I think that if we had come to the same situation in Oslo, or in another Norwegian city...

The first time you do that?

I think we would have been more scared, so we would have run away from the cellar,

and the police would have done that.

Okay, so Kyve, what can you say about the city,

how does it differ from other cities in Europe, such as in Fredstead?

What kind of destination is this?

It is a pretty compact center in Norway.

It is a compact center, and if you like city environments and pulsating cities,

with a lot of fine old architecture and flat churches,

you will like Kyve.

I think it is a very nice city.

Some people say that everything is too big and stuff,

but the question is if you like it, and it is very equipped.

It is a bit...

It is bright, isn't it?

It is bright.

I think the world's deepest metro station is the nearest deepest metro station.

Yes, Arsenalka.

Yes, I think it is in the second place after Pyongyang.

It is also easy to forget in Pyongyang.

They have, of course, the deepest one.

People have not been to Pyongyang.

Yes, I have been to both stations.

Yes, but Kyve does not continue if I have to...

You have a lot of freedom when you have to move around.

There is not so much that fits you in Kyve as in Pyongyang.

It is not.

You have been there, too.

Yes.

Of course you have.

Are there other villages you would like to push forward

as such interesting destinations in Kyve?

Yes, because I have thought that Ukraine is supported by

incredibly many fine villages.

Yes.

I have worked at the Biforsk Institute.

Paturinansbida.

Well, no, I like villages.

Yes, Arsenalka.

If it is fun perhaps to be there.

Yes, the building is a bit like that.

There are surprising things all the time.

They have very many fine villages.

I have not been to one Ukrainian village

where I have liked very much.

Do you think so?

Harkiv in the east.

Yes, it is the biggest village.

Yes, and it was the capital in the first period

of the Ukrainian Soviet Republic in 1934.

It has a very good atmosphere

and very fine architecture.

There is opera, which is a concrete class,

which I think is very nice,

but I think it is art.

It is brutalistic.

Yes, brutalistic.

Yes.

And then there is something called Dersprom,

which was the capital for the planned economy

bureaucracy in the Soviet Republic of Ukraine.

It was the capital that was built

constructively.

And it worked.

It could not be more Soviet.

It was like Stalin hated it.

He did it.

He wanted to build it.

He was very conservative.

He liked architecture, opera,

things with more crime.

It should be that a person should feel a little

in front of the big high culture

with Thorna and Spir

and then become an architect.

Is it bad for the band to have an architecture director

that you get Stalin on the team here?

Yes, they should think about it.

Yes, they should think about who it is.

They will not have a hard time at least.

So, Kharkiv is an attractive city to travel to.

Of course, not right now.

But that was one of the beginning

that became hard-working at the beginning of the war.

Yes, it became hard-working.

And those of us who have collaborated with you,

which is a sociological institute

on the other side of the building,

there was the other building that was damaged

under the innovation.

Is it there in such a picture that there was

just a rocket right through the whole building?

It was a different city that was a little more new.

I do not know which city it was actually.

No, there were a lot of them.

But it was very dramatic there, one moment.

People spent the night down in the metro station

and, as you can see, the participants were,

or the participants were, so to speak, taken.

We had good colleagues there.

Some of them were there, for example,

familiar with our issues.

Some of them went further into the buildings.

And one of them came to us

at the city of region research institute.

We met with the parents,

had a meeting,

stood there and fought for a place,

arrived at a train where we were told

that it was going west.

We drove through the night, through Ukraine.

It was a huge, good train system.

We talked about it, perhaps.

I did not go to the city visit.

We had two of the most active passengers there.

Yes, but one of them came there,

sat there and filled the train.

At night, you had to turn on the lights.

Everything was like that.

You had to be able to ram them,

and the train was redirected all the time.

And then you had a lot of trains,

so they could operate.

A few months later,

I spoke to a Norwegian,

and he is now a full-fledged,

one of the most active researchers

at the institute,

with a lot of projects,

and lectures, interviews,

and so on, in Norwegian.

So you have...

A city.

Yes.

Odessa.

Odessa, I want to name it.

It has been in the long run for some years.

Do you have it?

The southern city?

Yes, the southern city.

There is even a black-haired artist.

Yes, it is a black-haired artist.

It has a beach promenade,

with beach beaches.

There is an old staircase,

an iconic staircase,

which is built up...

On Temkin Stairs?

Yes.

It was established,

at the end of the 17th century,

when Katerina Store was Kaiserinna.

Kaiserinna in Russia.

And the ugly Turks,

or the Osmanians,

out,

that is to say,

the Crimea-Canada,

which lies under the Ottoman Empire.

And it is established in this city.

Yes.

So it is like St. Petersburg, number two.

Yes.

It is a big one.

It is established in the world,

in Europe,

and it is established in...

Odessa,

which is established in Europe,

with a lot of French and Italian architects

who came in.

And this is much more...

Petersburg is a bit more...

strict and cold,

in the cold,

also in the climate.

Yes, of course.

Yes.

So it is like Odessa,

much more...

lively architecture,

and the climate makes it very lively.

And there have been

a lot of different folk dances

that have been performed,

a lot of dances.

And people from all over Europe,

because Katerina Store

took these premises,

or under the Russian Empire,

was to invite people

who could

accommodate the people.

And then there were Russians,

and what became later Ukrainians,

which then became called ruteners.

Yes, ruteners,

because there is a word that comes in when you read the stories.

What is ruteners?

It is the eastern Slavic

and orthodox

folk dances

that were first performed

under the Great Patriarch

with Lithuania,

and then it was

smelted with pollen,

and then under the pollen.

So it is still

the 13th detail.

And then they were called ruteners

and called themselves

for themselves,

and later they got

a 17th detail,

a movement that was not

as much as the Ukrainians

on the other side of the border,

namely in the Russian Empire,

that they should

get together,

and then they started to call themselves

Ukrainians.

In any case,

this is a milder

system,

Moldovians,

Bulgarians,

Greeks,

Serbians,

Germans,

and so on.

Do you think this system is good food?

Yes.

Because you have also written

311 articles

and one of them was

the Austrian kitchen.

What do you think?

Yes, I have the answer

because it is a very important

Russian kitchen.

It is a big Russian kitchen.

And it is also an authority.

Mine, I think, is that it is

a spirit called mayonnaise.

It goes in there.

Yes.

It is...

What kind of power is that?

All of these three things

are for themselves

in moderate quantities,

but it is more than that.

Yes, it is.

We use

red vegetables,

a lot of pork meat.

It is difficult to say that it is

completely separate,

Ukrainian kitchen.

Because here it is

sliding and sliding.

I have written the article about

borscht.

Yes, that is the soup.

Yes.

Which is to be made so thin

that when you put the sliver

in the pot,

the sliver should stand.

You should get it in the soup.

Yes.

It should be so thin that

you do not get it in the soup.

Yes.

But it has it in the pool.

And it has it in Russia,

and it has it in Lithuania.

Alfa.

But then I got

such a reader's

introduction to the article

that I have to stress

much earlier

that this is a Ukrainian soup.

Yes, that is true.

And the other countries

I have mentioned

have to get another one.

So this is a kind of

politicized soup?

Yes, a politicized soup

that is always in Ukraine.

But they are proud

of this soup.

The Ukrainian version

is very good.

Yes.

But what they are very

popular is

the one called Salo.

Yes, Salo.

And it is great

from the beginning

in Sweden.

Yes.

It is great.

It is just great.

Isn't it?

Yes, it is just great

under the sun.

Yes, exactly.

So it is just great.

It is great.

So the one that is

really under the sun

on Riba?

Yes.

Well, not at all.

Is it on the back?

Yes.

Yes.

But the clothes

do not go away.

They sell it,

eat it,

in thin sheets

with salt and pepper

and other things.

And the leader

of the Vaska

or Horylka

that is more like

a spirit.

It is the best

Austrian food

in the nation.

Yes.

But it is

followed by

many Ukrainians

and also

no Ukrainians

it is very healthy.

There is a lot of

breastfeeding and such.

These

baboli

or baboški

are the best mothers.

The best mothers

always want

to put

something on there

so that you

do not get sick.

So that

you become a

strong man.

Yes, exactly.

I eat a lot

of fresh food.

You eat a lot of fresh food.

Do you combine

some vegetables

and such?

Yes.

Salt and pepper.

Yes, salt and pepper.

But

that is

absolutely the case.

Everyone who

supports you

can buy it

in shops

at least here in Oslo.

Ekomarket

for example

is specialised

in

European

Eastern European

things.

Handcraft food?

Yes, handcraft food

and

such as me

who

spends

a lot of money.

And then you can

almost ask

what kind of

things could you

put together

in Ukraine?

It was

so-called

hryvni.

Hryvni?

Yes,

hryvni.

Hryvni?

Yes.

What is

it called in

Russian?

Hryvni

Yes.

It is

like

old days.

I do not

know exactly

how old

but in

old days

it was

about

half a

pound

alone.

This

was

about

a quarter kilo.

So it was

connected to

a real value.

Yes,

it was

and then

they had

Soviet

rubles.

These

loaded

money

cells.

They

were

used

many times.

They

were

very

soft.

After 1991

they were

blown up.

Suddenly

they introduced

a

Carbovanet

which was

between

the city.

In 1996

they introduced

a

hryvni.

They

always say

H

instead of

G.

Yes,

because it is written

that H

is a

job.

They say

Hitler and

Hansen

and not

Hitler and

when they

talk about

briefing

they say

briefing.

It

becomes

a

consequent H

then

NG.

We

didn't know

that.

I just

thought it

was

such

a

foreshadowing

of

policy.

It

is

a

lot of

H.

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Both big, like me, and too small, like you, eventually, I don't know if you're big or small.

And if you haven't tried a songbook yet, as far as I'm concerned, Bookbeat on the 6th, this is a lot of fun.

I thought I could come up with a little book tip from Hofta here.

Then I can take one that is a bit safe, which is Blomåne by Jon Nesbø, for example.

It's also what I have in my head today, which has traveled to LA to drink here, the cozy start.

Because life has gone to a certain extent, so I'm very happy with this.

And let me tell you, it's nice to drink here, but not completely.

And then he helps an older film producer called Lucille,

under such a narcotic cartel, who is a bit on the rise of their skin, and how do you deal with that with a million dollars?

She has given Harry Hole a hostess and company on a discredited dress plant.

And here you can think, here, everything that can happen here, you find out if you read Blomåne by Jon Nesbø,

as the rest of the world has done before, so just do it.

And if you think this belongs to the harbour of Tøftut, then you should think,

Osson, this story will be, when it will be read by the bashing of the grass rust.

This story, think about it.

It will not be heard in the channel, much tougher than the voice you have in your head.

So if you are a woman on a book, and are a bit unsick on Osson, you are going to start,

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So if you are a woman on a book, and are a bit unsick on Osson, you are going to start,

then you get 45 there, with a free end.

It is a lot of interesting stuff, that the Ukraine also introduces.

If you say that in 1991, it was about 52 million,

2022, there is a new year here, which is about 43 and a half.

How many people are there now, in September 2023, when you play this?

It is difficult to say, because there are so many who travel abroad,

and then come back, the number of people has gone back quickly, since 1991.

It has been like this, there have been some people counting since 2001.

No.

But this year I have not been able to answer that.

There have been such attempts, people counting, in 2019, for example, before the innovation,

and then it was down to 41 or 43, and then again we helped mobile phones.

They were down to 37 million, so it is a transition country.

Yes, 36 and a half is the lowest number I have found.

Now everything is a bit base here, but it is enough in that area,

if you move from here to the airport that has registered you abroad.

Exactly, they lost 12% of the population when Russia occupied Crimea,

and the so-called People's Republic in the East,

Luhansk and Luhansk.

And then there are 8 million people who have traveled abroad, as you can see now.

So it is down to 20 numbers in a country, and it is a halving of,

perhaps a halving of what it was in 1991.

And it is almost dramatic for a country.

So this country where people have been quite instilled in,

or there are many who have thought about traveling,

or at least take a job that works as a migrant in other countries,

and a lot of people have traveled to Russia,

and after 2017 that the EU has approved,

or the same work has been approved as a requirement for the Ukrainians,

and there are a lot of people who have traveled to Poland,

perhaps at least one and a half million, and Germany.

Exactly, it is, I think the city wins to get back to the country,

and the country loses, we will see more of that in the world,

now we will just find out which countries limit Ukraine here in 2023 to.

Moldova, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Belarus and Russia.

So there is Romania in there too.

Romania, of course.

Yes, what Moldova has approved from the citizens there,

so they get a little limit more about Romania and Ukraine.

Absolutely, I live in the area where there is a part of Romania,

which is very popular, that I am a Romanian.

Yes, but people are popular, that's what they are.

Yes, yes.

Let's not get away from them.

So there is the Black Sea and the Asov River,

I remember the Asov Valley, it is located in the mountains,

where there were hard camps,

control rooms in Ukraine.

It is the Republic.

The Republic, controlled by a president called...

Volodymyr Zelensky.

Volodymyr Zelensky, he is called Volodymyr before.

Yes, he is from a city called Kruvir, Russian Kruvoi Rosh.

He is an industrial city in the east of the country,

and he started with the metro.

And there I speak almost all Russian,

and his growth and environment was in Russian language.

He was one of those who had a career in Russia,

as a mother and son-in-law.

Both in Russia and Ukraine, it was a very diverse country,

and in the culture, very, very long.

Russia was on the Ukrainian side, which was on the Russian side.

I myself had Russian TV at home,

and I have seen a little bit of Russian language,

and I have seen a lot of opera, which is pretty bad.

There are not as many foreigners as opera singers.

When it comes to Russian music, it is often said that it is from Odessa or Kyiv.

But it has not been possible in Russia to see that it was...

Maybe if I had been a little more observant,

I would have understood that it was fine.

But they were more of a generic, post-Soviet environment and audience.

Yes, I understand that.

I understand that Zelensky was a little bit like a star in Russia before,

but they have maybe stopped sending awards to President Zelensky.

What is his name?

Volkut Tiener.

Volkut Tiener has a net-hop, which he was famous for.

Yes, he has an appeal in the entire Soviet society,

because he plays on things that people recognize,

such as speech recognition, authorities, corruption,

snusk, nationalism, and anti-nationalism.

He has sparked in all directions.

I have seen quite a lot of those episodes.

And it is quite funny.

Is it like we Norwegians had understood the news in that humor,

or is it a little too far from how it works?

I think a part of it had understood,

without knowing the region,

but a part of it was lost.

Maybe it is lost for me too.

Yes, as the Republic said,

it is the Economist Democracy Index.

The Democratic Index, which I have widely used in Volkut Tiener.

I am not super impressed by Ukraine.

It is just Russia, Belarus, Turkey,

and Bosnia, which is the least democratic in Europe.

I follow that index.

Here Ukraine is at the level of Liberia, Honduras,

and the countries we want,

maybe it has been a bit of a shock for us to get to know each other.

Does it make sense?

Yes, it makes sense.

Is it corruption or something?

Corruption and anti-nationalism,

comrades in the populism, as it is called.

I am not entirely sure how they make that index,

but it is well-known and proven.

It also depends on the fact that you actually have parties.

You have a lot of parties,

but they are not actually parties.

They do not have a member base.

They do not meet local members,

what local members are going to send a proposal to a party program.

A little bit of a struggle, at what level?

Then you come to a meeting, and then you know about it.

It is just determined by some practices.

It is very difficult to find out the difference between the two,

and then each time they are chosen.

I have to admit that I have a power shift,

which is very different from Russia,

where Putin has been sitting since...

But do you know what the president is talking about?

Yes, but that was the prime minister.

Yes, of course it was.

The time has passed.

So it is another time,

and after a few years,

at the bottom level, people are unhappy.

It is not like a political choice,

that it gives some change.

No, no.

It is the same corrupt thing.

The politics comes from above,

not from below.

Yes, it can be seen.

And then there are some...

not like...

programmatic parties,

that are difficult to see the ideological difference.

Did people choose to vote for those who look nice?

Yes, it has been a tendency,

that at the end you vote for a candidate who comes from the east,

or a candidate who comes from the west.

In the west, there is always such a...

almost nationalist candidate,

who says that they want to enter Europe.

And then there is a candidate in the east,

who is a little more like that.

We have to cooperate both ways,

multi-vector, as they say,

a little with Russia and a little with EU.

And it is beautiful,

that one of the others says he wins,

and the other says he wins again.

And M. Zelensky was something new,

that was wrong, like all the other competitors on the side.

And he had great success in the whole country,

even though he was completely in Galicia,

in the West.

So he had more numbers.

But he didn't have any program.

No.

He was the leader of the so-called kandis populism.

And then came a kandis who...

Do you remember Tula Medinarge?

We created a satire from...

Yes, all of them.

But what he signaled,

was that when we created Ukraine,

which is for everyone,

all the ways to be Ukrainians

is as much as you respect

the state in a way

that this is the case,

the projects that are Ukraine.

And that would have been great.

And also,

we had to get to Fred in the East.

It would have been...

It was a terrible war,

in 2014,

in the East,

where Ukraine was shot

in the face of the so-called

People's Republic,

in order to take it back

to the other areas,

where it was possible for the people

to put their rights to the law,

but it was also shot in the back.

So it was pretty big human suffering.

How are we supposed to do that?

It was very loose.

The whole thing was very loose.

Was it Fred there, actually?

No, it was Fred there.

How is his state now,

in the same way as before

when he was elected,

and now he is keeping

the popularity going now?

Yes, he led the same thing

as the other

presidents,

and the government's majority

in Ukraine.

The right to vote.

He was very angry

about the opinion of the people

before the war,

and he didn't

have anything to say.

What he had

thought and got,

he had powerful enemies

in the camp that was shot

in 2019,

around Petro Poroshenko,

the chocolate oligarch.

He was

on the way to the west,

the candidate, because the west

knew who he was,

and he was more and more

nationalist,

but he was

further integrated

with the west, so he supported

him, and maybe

Zelensky was

a bit insecure

about the criticism.

Do you remember

Zelensky was a narcoman?

Yes, it has been said a lot

in the war, but I'll tell you.

But that was an idea

that Putin didn't have

to suck his own breath.

But that was

Poroshenko's flight.

It was a real deal, they had

spread earlier, so he just

picked it up from that flight.

So the narcoman killed a Nazi,

what do you think it is?

I don't think it was to

deal with the Norwegian politics.

How, just look at

the democracy and corruption.

When we were playing there,

there was a scandal with

Erna Solberg and her husband,

who had actions in the

President's office.

How did that happen?

If that had come to Ukraine?

Yes, they had that.

They had that.

But it had

really been known.

You can say that, but

even more so there.

But people react, people are not happy

in that situation.

What is

sad about that is that

you spread yourself

with a good reason.

It is such a mistake

for all politicians,

even those

that you vote on.

It shows that Zelensky has

money on a tax paradise,

and such things come

all the time.

And corruption is

bad.

I had a little hope

that this innovation

would never be so bad that

it did not go for any thought.

That the innovation would feel that

now people are

in at least as long as

the country is under brutal attack

from another state.

But it has not happened.

The military defense department

has been excluded

again.

The pressure in Ukraine

is not completely controlled.

So it is not under

the current situation.

They have been told

that the top military

has bought food

for the boy and the girl

at the front.

It is a price that is three times as high

as it really needed to be.

In the middle of the camp,

between the camp and the camp.

In general,

they take the food out of the

friends who are at the front

and attack each other.

And those who

lead the committees

with

almost the most

recruiting soldiers,

they take about

100,000 Norwegian crowns

to make people disappear.

So

it is like corruption

itself.

It is a very bad

thing.

But it is incredibly difficult

and

I understand that it is very cold.

It is also difficult

to come up with these things.

What I have done with the recruiters

is that he spanked everyone.

He spanked people.

And there are only new ones who are corrupt.

There are people who have been at the front

and who have become extremely

unhappy because they have been hurt.

It is the Greek invalids

who are going to lead the committees.

And it is Selenskis who think

that they know what this war is

and that they will

be more honest

than the others.

Let's see how it works.

It is an industry and a party.

It is not that you have to work five years

to be with a party.

Yes, a little life experience

can be good.

The older I get, the more

I understand that.

A little life experience.

Is Ukraine

bigger or smaller than

Norway?

It is bigger, I think.

It is almost twice as big as

Norway.

If you take what is FN

as a limit around Ukraine

it is out of

3,745 km.

It is the biggest country

in Europe

to take the new FNF.

In Russia,

in 2014,

there was a real deal with 42,000.

Then there was the full-scale invasion

in March 2002,

Russia took

161,000 km.

It is responsible to check

if it is the same.

Ukraine again robbed

the Russian forces

controlled around 15%

of Ukraine,

around Norway.

We have to say that

we are at 63,700 km

square

and flat.

Appropos flat.

What is the highest level?

I think I know

that you have to lie in the carpet

and that it is not so much higher than 2,000 m.

2,061 m

Is it Goverla?

Yes, it is Goverla,

I think.

It has something to do with the capital.

Yes, HOV.

95% of Ukraine

is paddy flat.

It is paddy flat and

it is a lot of black soil.

Yes, and it is exciting.

It has been a lot of

happiness and worries with Ukraine.

Tell us about the soil.

It is

a soil that has been

renovated and contains a lot of cold.

It does not look like the kind of soil

you get in the house you are going to plant at home.

Yes, it looks very similar.

If you do not have such a big finger

you can

put it in the pocket.

It is the same in the pocket.

They have it on the pamphlet in South America

and in the North America.

It is the world's best.

It is the world's best.

Do you think that is what you are going to say?

Yes.

It is also called a bridge curve.

It is a bit strange to talk about a country.

This is black soil.

It is not just Ukraine,

but it is also

Russia and other countries.

It is also the Volga district

in Russia,

North Caucasus,

Kuba,

which is located in the east of the sea.

Kuba?

Yes, Kuba.

The northern part of Kazakhstan.

Really?

It is the longest.

It is almost certain that

it must be Nyebr.

Nyebr is 2,201 km long,

where of 1,121 of these

is then

in line with Ukraine.

I will talk more about that flag.

They have it.

What does it look like?

It looks blue and yellow.

It is blue and yellow.

You can see

how it looks like

with yellow and sky blue.

It looks like from the wind,

when you walk through Ukraine

on a summer day.

You can see

the Ukrainian flag.

If it is autumn and winter,

you can see

the dark green and light green flag.

But it is like

the landscape.

You can find more theories.

It is the most correct way.

There is someone who claims

that the yellow and blue flag

was a collaboration

with the Swedish

king, I don't know.

Carlton Trotter?

Yes, it was a Cossack

headman, Ivan Masepa,

who worked with him

to fight against the Poltava.

He was beaten by the Poltava,

where the Swedes were beaten.

That is the end of the Swedish

history.

That was it.

But there is no reason to believe

that the flag was made today.

I don't believe that.

The flag was made in 1848

in a collaboration with

the so-called Folkvården in Europe.

It was a lot of British

among those who

lived from a flag.

That is the first time

that we have seen

the box.

But we have to call it

next week.

Are you ready for that?

Yes.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.