Between Two Beers Podcast: Tom Sainsbury: Man of many faces

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On this episode of Between Two Beers, we talk to Tom Sainsbury.

Tom is one of New Zealand's most popular creative minds.

He starred on TV shows like Wellington Paranormal, Shortland Street and Educators, written over

50 plays and is widely loved for his short-form comedy videos where he satirises Kiwi characters.

He also just dipped his feet in the podcast game and in March released his true crime

mockumentary Small Town Scandal.

In this episode, we chart Tom's rise from Snapchat Guy to Household Name, courting controversy

in his relationship with Paula Bennett, the time he entered the race to become Auckland

Mayor, his weirdest jobs, dream dinner party, approach to monetising his content and much

much more.

Tom might just be the most loved man in Kiwi comedy and it's easy to see why.

He's gentle, authentic, incredibly observant and hilarious and his output of creative work

will blow you away.

You'll love this one.

Listen on iHeart or we'll get your podcast from or watch the video on YouTube.

A huge thanks to those supporting the show on Patreon for the cost of a cup of coffee

a month.

To get involved, head to BetweenTwoBeers.com.

This episode was brought to you from the Export Bear Garden Studio.

Enjoy!

Tom Sainsbury.

Hi.

Welcome to...

You could just sit with your hands.

Between Two Beers.

I need to use my sleeve.

Is that okay?

It's like a high school party when you're sleeving it.

Yeah, I know.

It's so easy.

Get into that export.

Cheers.

Welcome to the Export Bear Garden Studio.

Cheers.

Look at you guys.

Look at you guys.

Thanks for doing it in front of the mic.

Clink.

Nicely done.

That's a pro.

I've got it fully.

Yeah.

It's a pro right there.

Beautiful effects.

Yeah, we're very excited to have you on, Tom.

We're so looking forward to this episode and when we were talking about you coming

on the show, Seamus legitimately thought you were Mark Sainsbury's son.

And we laughed and laughed and laughed me and producer Adam.

But then in our research found out that not only do a lot of people think that, but also

it's something you get asked about a lot.

And to take it further, according to our friend Chris Parker, he said, you're actually

pretty chummy with Mark Sainsbury.

Yes.

I was at a wedding over in Bali of all places and this guy sat down with me, talking to

me with ages like, I really like your dad.

I love what your dad does and stuff.

I'm like, Ross, how does he know Ross Sainsbury and Master, Master.

The dairy farmer went along and took a long time to work out that he was talking about

Mark Sainsbury.

But yes, Mark Sainsbury and I are no connection at all.

And we've tried to chart it back because there aren't many Sainsbury's in New Zealand.

So we should be connected somehow, but we're not.

Because you did run the Mustache.

Well, you have run the Mustache a few times, but...

I'm a big fan of the Mustache.

The problem is, is when I'm doing characters, it's like all my characters suddenly have

Mustaches.

So I have to choose about when I have it.

But I love having a Mustache.

But it's not a shade on Mark's.

Oh, God.

Is anyone's?

No.

Can anyone's reach that?

War us wonderfulness.

I don't think so.

And that's probably what gave it away in the end.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just love the thought that we thought we had this classic zinger to start with.

Mark Sainsbury's son, how good is that going to be?

And I know, he gets asked about that pretty much every week.

And he, but we did, he rang me up and we did, he, I was his spokesperson for him, because

he does Men's Health Week every year.

So I was the spokesperson for him.

So we've done some work together and been interviewed by him and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Father and Sunday.

Well done.

Yeah.

Yeah, nice.

Bringing your son to work day.

We were scheduled to have a chat a few weeks ago, but you had to jump on a plane to L.A.

To get studio execs interested in a couple of TV shows you've written.

You got it.

How did that all go?

Look, it was character building.

It was, I love it.

Have you guys spent any time over there?

A little bit.

A little bit, you say?

A little bit.

You're understanding yourself.

Stephen went to college in America.

Well, are you talking about L.A. in specifically?

L.A.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Where'd you go to college in America?

New Jersey, you know.

Did you?

Soccer scholarship.

Yeah.

Soccer scholarship.

Yeah.

I really like Los Angeles.

It's, the level of stress is always there because if you've driven around, well, it's

so scary to drive around there.

And after you're there for three weeks, you're still like, I don't know, I'm still not entirely

sure what side of the road I'm meant to be on.

And the speed of which everyone goes.

But I had a good time.

I met all these kind of producers, kind of people who had really good meetings and things.

And they're all kind of yes men over there, which I really enjoy, but sometimes nothing

comes from that.

And it's also, when you get a project going over there, there's about 47 hoops of everyone

kind of coming together.

The fact that anything can come together is a miracle.

So there are people interested in my projects, but, you know, we have to get a good director

attached.

There's got to be, we've got to get a star involved, that kind of carry on.

Do they do their own due diligence on your previous work as well, or are you going in

sight unseen, just a guy from New Zealand with a script?

So I've got a manager over there who would give them some of my material and stuff like

that.

So they've got an idea.

Does it play as well in America as it does here?

I, they, the smart ones are like, we don't have a sense of, like Americans.

They're aware that the kind of sense of humor is a little bit maybe lacking compared to

if we were ours.

And of course, Tika's just, you know, paved the way for such an interest in New Zealand

comedy.

So they are aware of it.

It does translate kind of.

I think what doesn't translate is my energy coming in, because like, I hate talking about

myself.

Are you going to leave?

You guys are in trouble.

Well, I hate talking about myself in terms of like, boosting into a room and just selling

myself, you know, like I like being far more kind of self-deprecating or kind of that kind

of energy.

I feel much more comfortable like blowing my own trumpet comes very awkwardly to me.

And that's the land of blowing your trumpet.

You got it.

Yeah.

Which is why you're so well liked, I think.

Anyone who likes blowing their own trumpet, I feel like gets found out or you get too

much of it.

I agree.

I think there's a way to do it.

Like people, you do have to cut, like people don't have time over there.

You've got to be able to sell exactly who you are and what you've done and achieved

in a really efficient way, which I mean, which I'm lacking in.

So I could have done a lot better.

And you fly back and you don't really know how it's gone.

You're like, I don't know what's, if that was productive or not.

You got it.

Well, it's so kind of the whole thing is just until something, until like they're filming

it, it's all kind of could be nothing.

Like people getting excited and talking to you and things, you're like, that was such

a good meeting.

I really got on with that person.

Everyone seems to be really enthusiastic.

And then you just don't hear anything from them.

Like it's just so hard.

There's nothing concrete.

It's all just concepts and ideas.

And then last time I was there, so I was over there last September, it's an H, no, yeah,

HBO was bought by Discovery and they just kind of canned everything.

There was a film that was about to come out called Batgirl, I think, which was about Batman's

niece.

And it was all, it was been filmed.

It was all about to come out and stuff.

And they, Discovery bought it and then they just put a cancel to it because it was, it

was more cost effective for them to make it a write-off than to actually give it out to

the world.

That's obscene.

That's obscene, isn't it?

All those people's work.

And so even if you get something made, like, I'm just like a win, who knows what a win

is anymore.

Did you, did you come away with a few character ideas for some American people that we might

have seen some of your work in the future?

It's really interesting with, I definitely, there's so many characters over there, but

when I do, like, sometimes Australians were kept, but not really, and Americans' characters

don't work here.

Right.

Which is a shame.

The other audiences don't like vibe with it.

Because Steven does, you do a great American accent, Steve.

No, I don't.

I do.

South African.

Oh, sorry, South African.

Everyone has a South African.

Anyway, look, we've got a lot of places to get to, but I wanted to start in a really

random place.

Great.

So I listened to an interview you did a few years ago, and you were asked to create your

fantasy dinner party where you could invite five guests, and I loved it.

So you chose Suzanne Paul, Steve Parr, Michael Hill Jula, Jane Campion, and David Bain, and

fuck, it made me laugh.

And I think that probably only people 30 and up would really appreciate that list.

I think it also speaks to why you're so popular.

You create these nostalgic, fun, hypothetical scenarios and let people's imagination just

run wild with it.

So I actually wanted to talk about that.

Right.

Like, what a combo that is.

Can I jump in quickly, though, because four out of those five names are actually on our

list of guests that we'd like to have on.

Can you guess who the one that isn't on that list?

Jane Campion, do you want to?

How did you get that?

You share it's too obvious.

Yeah, you're not going to go vain, are you?

Really?

Yeah.

I thought maybe Steve Parr was a little bit obscure.

Yeah.

My mind went there, but then I was like, yeah, I think that you guys could get a great story

out of Steve Parr, and I'm here for it.

Is there any campaigning I can do on your behalf to get?

Where is Steve Parr?

Anyway, no one knows.

Yeah, let's put the better signal in.

We put a who would you like to have on the pod in Christmas New Year, and Steve Parr's

name came in, and I was like, that's a great, that's a great throwback.

I don't want to hijack the dinner party.

Please explain.

Steve Parr was so kind of influenced, because we used to sit around, ask family.

My parents don't really like television, but we did used to sit around, and was it

Sale of the Century?

Is it?

Yeah.

He would slide on.

And then would it be Jude Dobson was his psychic, or who was his psychic?

Yeah, that was Jude Dobson.

But what was who made it name?

Yeah, I know.

Jude Dobson.

I know.

There was a huge thing when she changed her name.

I know.

It threw me for six.

And so, yeah, what was it?

It'll come to me later.

But it was like, it was huge, and anyway, we watched that together, and we loved it.

Him sliding on.

Yeah.

And then the bloopers, then there was a blooper show up at New Zealand Funny Bloopers, and

it would have him sliding on and just sliding straight off and crashing into something.

So Steve Parr, he also had a mustache, right?

Yeah, very much so.

He had a great mustache.

Yeah, very much so.

And one of those really long microphones.

Oh, I love that.

And what was that, did you have to answer questions on Sale of the Century?

You must have had to.

Did you have to guess how much stuff was as it was coming along a little private?

Is it price?

It's price is right.

It's price is right.

It's very much the price is right.

Yeah.

I've got real fortune in my hair as well.

Which was one of the leshmans?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The multiple leshmans?

I don't know.

So yes.

Lana Co-Craft was his off-sider.

Lana Co-Craft.

That's right.

Susan Paul off, hanging out with, but she's just quite good to have, because I like to

sit back and let the other people do the talking, so she'd be good at initiating conversation.

And she's had quite the life.

And I judged a dog competition with her maybe a month ago, and she'd just come back from

Chicago, and she was telling me about Chicago, her time in Chicago, and I love that.

Is that sentence something you never could have imagined you'd say, like, I don't know

how many years ago I was judging it?

Like you said it quite nonchalantly, I judged a dog competition with Susan Paul.

Because Susan Paul again was huge, like if you were homesick from school, it would just

be her ads on.

Yeah, Natural Glow.

Natural Glow.

And then who else was I?

Michael Hildjula.

Michael Hildjula.

I can't believe this list.

I can't even remember it.

It's not as easy.

Sue Michael Hildjula.

He is, and I follow him on, I've been trying to initiate a friendship with him on Instagram,

just sliding into his DMs, going, oh, a beautiful picture, stuff like that.

I'm just hoping when I'm down there, he'll invite me to his estate and want to go wherever

he lives.

And he hasn't bitten.

He hasn't bitten.

He's been like very cordial, cordial, and given me, you know, interacted with me, but

not really asking any questions back, so I'm just leaving that one for the last.

Thanks Tom.

Such an obscure Michael Hild reference from when I was a kid.

Apparently one of my parents' friends that grew up and that I grew up with in Topor,

she was his sweetheart back in the day.

And apparently the urban legend goes, he actually asked her to marry him and she said, no.

Now I don't know how much of that is bullshit.

And I also hope that she doesn't listen to this podcast because she has missed out on

a fortune.

Yeah, and the opportunity to be your friend.

I know.

Potentially fingers crossed.

I could have, yeah, I could have, yeah.

I feel like Baina, you'd be struggling to get much out of, that he would sit quietly

at the end of the table.

He would, and I'd love it though, like just to work it out, you know, and just to work

it out.

Work him out.

Yeah.

So that is kind of my wider point.

We can't leave out Jane Campion.

Jane Campion.

Jane Campion.

Who you don't, you don't want on our podcast.

Well, Jane Campion, like the other ones are kind of nostalgic and, I mean, she's a bit

more cool, isn't she?

Maybe not.

Yeah.

I would have thought you would have gone Anna Paquin if that's, because the piano, you

know.

True.

Hey, this is his list.

Yeah, sorry, sorry.

It's not your list.

On a second guess.

What a list.

Jane Campion, because she directed this, really obscure, she directed this film called Angel

at My Table in the 80s, 90s, with Janet Frame with the red hair.

The red hair in the hair.

And I, for some reason, as a child in his late, in his 7, 8, 9, 10, was obsessed with

their film.

We're the same vintage you and I, because I get the reference straight away.

I can see.

Yeah, red hair.

I don't know if you can still say red curly hair, but I think you can.

Yeah.

Safe to say that.

Sure, right?

Yeah.

I've got no one looking at you.

No, yeah, you're the authority on what's okay to joke about.

My point I was getting to was that I think, and we're going to cover this as we go on,

is that it seems you're a bit of an expert on observing and the human condition.

I know this is hypothetical, but the joy I can see in your face of thinking about

observing that situation, and we spoke for five minutes before, and you were sort of

working out, you were observing us to figure out which, I don't know, which box to put

us in?

Is that what you were doing?

Just to, like, just sink into the vibe, I think, yeah, but you guys are very easy

to be around.

But can I just say that that dinner party would be amazing.

What in it?

Absolutely.

Yeah, I think you wanted to create it.

Yeah.

We're going to see an invite.

Well, they're all still around, so you still got a chance to do that.

I'm thinking Steve Parr's going to be living in some obscure town somewhere.

I reckon he's lost the mustache, I think.

Oh, producer Adam's got the goods.

Can you, if we organise this dinner party, we will host the event.

Please.

We will emcee it.

And we'll find out Jude Dobson's maiden name.

Yes.

Bailey.

Jude Bailey.

No, Jude Bailey.

No, that's the mother of the nation.

Yeah, sorry.

Who's also on our list of potential guests one day.

We'll be right back after this short break.

So we wanted to, I said we'll start now, but we already started.

We want to start with a few fun little nuggets.

And we've asked Chris Parker and a few other friends to give us a info.

And he said, I think you should ask him about some of his weirdest jobs.

And we've got a few that we want you to talk about.

The first one that he said he played beetroot for McDonald's in an ad once.

Yes.

My first ad, the first job I ever got was on a Kiwi burger,

was on the Kiwi burger commercial.

And I was paying the slice of beetroot.

And it was a love story between me and the egg.

Like Kiwis love Hot Pools, Rubber Balls, McDonald's,

Snapper Schools, Warpies, Woody Fleas, that one.

You got it.

You were the beetroot in that.

I was the beetroot.

That was my first acting gig.

I know.

I don't know what else to say about it except it was all downhill from there.

Is it?

Because I think your first acting gig was a Canadian beer commercial.

Have I got that wrong?

You're right.

You are correct.

You are correct.

I did get it.

I did.

You're right.

I got it.

And do you know the story behind that?

I'd love to hear it.

So I went into the audition and they said,

because you've got a list of things that you,

they've got like, can you do these skills?

And you're like, I can't do horse riding,

but the job's not for a week.

I'll take your horse riding and then I'll go and quickly learn it for a week

and then it'll be an expert when it comes to filming.

And that one was, can you pyramid ski?

So which is where there's like three people on the bottom,

then two people on the shoulders and one people on the top.

And I take, yes, I could.

So I did the audition of me pretending to ski.

And then I came back and then the producers were there from Canada

and they said, I loved your work and stuff.

And it's like, so you can ski.

And I was like, you can pyramid ski.

And I was like, yeah, I can.

And I went home and I was like tossing and turning.

I was like, I hate myself.

This is terrible.

What's going to happen?

I can't, who's going to teach me how to pyramid ski?

And we're filming in a week.

So I rang up my, bravely, I rang up my agent and said,

look, this is the situation.

So she rang up the producers and said,

I wasn't comfortable pyramid skiing.

And they said, well, we still really liked them.

So we're going to have them for this other role.

So this other role was just me being a pervert.

I was looking through the keyhole.

I was at a party looking through the keyhole

at a beer glistening on, here we go,

a beer glistening on the sink.

But everyone thinks I'm staring at this girl getting,

girl like, she was a Brazilian model that came over

and they thought I was looking, perving at her,

but I was really looking at the beer.

I'm so focused on the beer that she opens the door handle.

The door handle hits me in the head and I go flying back

and into a beanbag and the other party goes

and everyone laughs and that's the kind of gag.

But so when you go in and you fill up this form,

you also fill out your measurements

for the clothes that you can wear.

Do you know that?

No, God, I just, I've somebody struggled

with clothes measurements in the past.

I just wonder whether this is going.

So I went probably 10 centimetres too small.

They, I arrived because, well, my waist was the worst.

Oh no.

And so I showed up and because I'd kind of shifted roles,

they hadn't really had a chance to kind of,

they were just clothing me on the day.

So I show up and put the pants,

the t-shirt kind of hangs over,

like the pants are so, like the vacuum tight

and my stomach is all over the bottom,

top, bottom can't be done.

And I'm standing there.

I'm standing there doing my bit and he's like, walk over

and so he's like, the action is you're dancing,

you're like, oh, what's going on?

What's shining through the keyhole?

Go over and have a look.

And like my walk is so kind of like kind of launching,

it's kind of like side to side because I can't walk

naturally because of the tightness of my pants.

And then bending over was more like a squat kind of like,

because you meant to bend over and lock through

because I couldn't bend over because my pants were so tight.

And he's like, no, what are you doing?

So you walk over and he showed me how to exactly like,

this is exactly how you do it.

This is after the third take.

Walked over.

I was like, okay, I'm just going to do it.

So I walk over and I bend over and I can feel

the material giving way.

And then they, then we go to the stunt where she opens the door.

I go flying backwards.

And of course what should happen is the tear,

my pants tear as I fall back and do my stunt,

my pants tear around me in the thigh just to expose the flesh.

So that's my first acting gig.

Plenty of pants going at that vicinity in the past.

Sorry to bring that.

Sorry to bring that.

That's a hell of a gig.

Sorry to bring that.

It's a hell of a start.

It's keeping it going.

Anyway, the ad aired in Canada.

Did Molson try.

Did they get it in that one take?

To bring in stunt pants.

She had to run off during lunch and buy a new pair of pants.

She came back.

She's like, I'm so sorry.

I could only buy it.

Well, she said she might have been being very nice to me.

She's like, I could only buy a size bigger.

So that was all that was in the store.

I was like, oh, that's no problem.

Put an arm that was still very tired,

but at least I could do the bending over and stuff like that.

So I think the lesson there is fake it till you make it.

If you choose to fake it till you make it,

be prepared for humiliation and embarrassment.

Just curious as to how the pyramid scheme would fit into that ad.

That was it.

So they were doing like about six ads.

One of them was with a Yeti or Sasquatch,

as they call them in Canada.

One of them was that one.

I would have gone the Yeti.

OK.

Let's introduce some gold.

So the next one on our list is worked as an insect acting coach.

Yes.

Yeah.

Oh, he was, I went for this guy.

So he was, his biggest talent was maggots, I'd say.

So whenever there was like,

because I was filming lots of like Xena,

or they were filming Evil Dead and things around.

Oh, I can't remember the film.

Oh, West Hollywood.

West Auckland, Hollywood.

That's right.

You got it.

So they had lots of like deceased animals

and a few horror films and things.

So they needed lots of maggots.

And that's how it kind of kind of met him.

And then he employed me, this guy,

employed me to go and feed.

So he kind of had animals, smaller animals for filming,

but he also provided all the animals for the Auckland Museum.

And so my job was to wake up at 5.30 on a Wednesday

and go in there and feed the fish and clean the tanks

and look after the geckos and things like that.

At the museum.

At the museum.

And then occasionally,

because I really just wanted to be on film sets,

occasionally I was allowed to come and wrangle like maggots.

And like, honestly, they're like,

no, the maggots aren't doing what they need to do.

So we need the maggot here and it needs to crawl.

Like just wrangling maggots is not the easiest.

So you want this maggot here to crawl.

So it has to crawl towards the camp and that kind of carry on.

But I also did a job with lots of grasshoppers as well.

You know, some kind of plague of the locusts kind of thing.

Sorry.

And anyway, so at the one day I showed up at the museum

and all of this, all of the seahorses stopped moving

and the temperature had got down to one degree.

So there had been some malfunction in their tank

and they were all suspended animation.

I was like, why are they all going to be panicking?

I think it was my fault of course.

I rang out my boss at like 5.30 in the morning and he raced in.

And we slowly brought them back.

Every 20 minutes you bring it up one temperature.

So I had to stay there until it got to like tropical sea temperature

and we only lost one seahorse.

Okay, we got most of them back.

And, okay, is this right to just throw, yep.

Yes, please.

So he also had, there was also an octopus, which is very cruel.

This is back in the mid, this is 2005.

When it was a little simpler time.

Simpler time.

We could get away with things.

And there was an octopus and there were two tanks.

So there's one tank, two tanks, maybe about three meters apart.

And one would have crabs in it and one would have octopus in it.

And the crabs would always be disappearing.

And so they set up a camera.

And what happens is the, it goes,

it goes out of the tank, slithers across, goes up, eats the crabs, slithers out.

And so I watched the footage of this octopus.

And then the octopus disappeared.

Oh.

And never to be found again.

So I hope it made a slunk into a sewer and was out to sea.

Oh, right.

Yeah, like a great escape.

Hopefully.

That's cold.

Did you have one more on your show?

No, we've actually combined the Auckland Museum with the Insect Wrangler, which is, yeah.

Okay.

That's great.

That is a really great start.

All right.

I want to move on to small town scandal because I've been listening to it for the last few days.

Please, please don't spoil it for me though, because I'm not at the end yet.

No, no, no, no, no spoiling.

And it's an amazing piece of work.

And from everyone I've spoken to, it seems to have been this huge success.

It seems like quite a difficult thing to put together, which we're going to talk about.

But my experience listening to it was going in, and I knew you play different characters.

I think there's 45 different characters in the podcast over the course of the six episodes.

You start off thinking, okay, that's Tom.

Okay, that's Tom.

Okay, that's Tom.

And then maybe, I don't know, 10 minutes into the first episode, you're not thinking that

anymore.

You're just totally encapsulated by the story, which is a real credit to the craft.

Can you talk to us a little bit about putting it together and where the idea came from?

Yeah, so I actually came into this very room and I did a food themed podcast with Ganesh Raj.

And I was hanging out with Sam afterwards, the producer, and he's like, come to me with

any ideas and stuff, and I thought with nothing of it.

And then he sent me an email, and so we kind of hung out.

And for some reason, well, I have been listening to, for many years, I've been listening to

true crime podcasts and really getting into it, really getting into the vibe of it.

And so I was like, oh, I'd like to do one of those, but how am I meant to do it?

I don't know any true crimes to solve, nor do I want to do that.

And so I proposed to him doing one where it's all scripted.

So it's like a parody of a true crime podcast.

And then the next step was me doing all the characters.

And he's like, well, we can get other actors in.

I was like, oh, I don't know.

I think I just want to do them all.

And so then I was months late with my first draft and it was ignoring the producer,

trying to avoid the emails.

He's like, where are the scripts coming soon?

Silence from me.

And then I was actually, yeah, last time I was over in the States,

I had this kind of a bit of downtime.

So I just kind of churned something out and kind of sent it to him.

And he was kind of into it.

And we kind of did some back and forth with notes and things.

The next thing I know, I'm recording it with our friend over here in the corner.

Producer Adam.

Producer Adam.

Producer Adam.

And we did one kind of episode together.

And we kind of had to focus.

You have to focus on all the characters because it would just become this blur.

The characters would all just kind of, their voices, everything just became unhinged

and I slowly became unhinged as well.

So we had to kind of focus on a character at a time, but it was all heavily scripted.

So you kind of knew where it was going and exactly how to kind of pitch the characters.

And then Adam had to do a lot of work of editing it together.

And there we go.

Because I've watched Seth MacFarlane in a live kind of reading of a family guy

where he plays all the different characters.

Yes.

That looks extremely challenging.

Yes.

Do you have that ability to do that?

No.

So I've got to, there's always, how I like to have it is like having a word or something

to get into the character.

So if I was to do that, I'd have to stop every character and have that word to get back

into that character.

Right.

So Sydney would be like Australian.

So yeah, Sydney, and then you're there.

And you were still there when you said there.

Yeah.

So Shay, I'm not sure if you said this or if you've read it somewhere,

but sounded like cereal, but with elements of the office in it.

Oh, great.

Is that a Shay original?

I said that, yeah.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I like that.

Is that the influences kind of coming into it?

No.

Not so much the office, but like, I love the office.

And the office is like influence both of them.

American and British have just influenced my life.

So yes, I think that's definitely.

Cool.

That's definitely forever there.

What kind of, in terms of a reference of comedy, like Katherine Kim kind of comedy

as well as a big thing for me, like the Australian kind of vibe as well.

So that probably influenced it too.

When you decide to come and attack the podcast medium,

which is different to other stuff you've done, theater and film and TV,

do you come in with any expectations?

Like, are you thinking, oh, this is the audience I wanted to get to,

or are you thinking like, if this is a success,

someone might pick it up for a TV show,

or are there bigger visions of it?

Not really.

Like, I wanted it to be like something in and of itself.

So I just wanted it to be like a complete artwork in there for the world,

rather than leading on to something else.

I think when I think of the audience, like my,

because I've got this kind of loyal audience on social media,

and the most kind of, the most kind of vocal of them would be females aged

like 35 to 55 would be my demographic.

Wine drinking women, white women,

and of course that kind of, for younger women too,

they do love true crime.

So I'm like, I felt like I was kind of catering,

I was kind of catering to them a little bit.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And the background for it is matamata.

Well, no, sorry.

The background for it resembles matamata,

which is where you grew up, right?

That's right, that's right, yeah.

And the small town New Zealand lend itself to this sort of true crime,

everyone knows everyone sort of thing.

And that's how I like to put it is that when growing up,

and I've also got Tai happy in my head

whenever I kind of think of Tohoeha,

which is a fictional town where it's set.

So it's probably more that the matamata.

The horse racing thing is definitely matamata

because I grew up in matamata,

and it's just horse racing's everywhere.

I think there's small,

what I always think about small towns

in terms of murder mysteries and things is that every,

like here you don't know who the policeman are,

you don't know who the law enforcement are,

but in matamata, in the small towns,

everyone, and so even the policemen are in potential suspects,

they're all kind of involved.

Because the small towns lend itself

to just that random cast of characters

that get thrown into a place, right?

And such a spectrum of them, yeah, yeah.

So like I said, it has been received well.

I know you don't like blowing your own trumpet,

but it has, it's done very well.

Is there a season two in the works?

Is there anything else?

Sam, the producer, he's sent the initial email,

so we're going to kind of work on something together.

It'll be the same kind of format.

We don't know whether it'll be any similar characters

or whether it'll be a whole new thing,

but it'll be the same format of me playing characters

and mystery to solve.

Yeah, very exciting.

Did you, just thinking of that,

you playing multiple characters,

like I think back to growing up,

Eddie Murphy's my kind of silent example

of a single person playing multiple different characters.

Is that kind of an influence as well

that you kind of looked through?

Eddie Murphy, yes, Eddie Murphy, definitely.

French and Saunders, if you know them,

they were really huge for me too.

And then later, Chris Lilly was,

like Summer Heights, I was really huge for me too.

And so, yeah, about Eddie Murphy.

What happened with Chris Lilly?

I loved Summer Heights High,

and that was a real, in our group at that time,

everyone was into it.

But has it been taken down?

I think no one's been taken down,

so it's because of him playing Jonah,

a Tongan boy.

So just the society's changed,

and that's no longer allowed.

What a great example of how things have moved.

Is he still, Carrie or not,

I haven't seen much sketch work from,

has he been cancelled as well?

He's making a podcast called Jermay's Anxious Character.

Jermay just talks as who talking about who life.

So Jermay from Summer Heights High.

It's really funny, I listen to it and I laugh out loud.

So I guess he's still trying to,

him as a clown, trying to work out the avenues

that he can still kind of go into.

They must be so disheartening as a performer

to have a body of work like that

judged in a different era's standards,

and then have it smudged from existence.

Something so celebrated for years

as this amazing piece of work,

that everyone's giving you credit like,

oh my God, Chris Lilly, you are absolutely killing it.

And then times change, and then it's like,

oh man, what you actually produced there

was really problematic.

Yeah, amazing, right?

I read a piece recently about how problematic

Ace Ventura Pet Detective is as well

in terms of trans and homophobia.

And I read it and I was like, oh yeah, shit.

Actually, if you view it with today's eyes

and you go, wow, this doesn't play so well anymore.

And it is, I guess, there's no risk

in what you do falling into those areas?

I tend to avoid doing, I mean,

I don't do anyone of any kind of other ethnicities,

or if, or that's not kind of like a commentary

or brown face or yellow face or anything like that.

I try to avoid those, but, you know,

I'll be cancelled for something along the lines.

I'm just holding, you know, just holding on until it happens.

Just bracing.

Yeah, bracing.

Enough time will pass.

Yeah, exactly.

We'll be right back after this short break.

All right, I want to start painting the picture of Tom.

I want to start picking up in Meta-Meta.

So, yeah, how did you become this sort of observational,

I don't master the human spirit, whatever you want to call it.

Was it when you look back on your childhood,

were your parents similar to you?

Did your siblings have a lot of sort of quiet time

just observing things?

I think that's a good question.

I think there's two sides of it.

It's one being not very popular or desperate to be popular

and wanting people to like, like a people pleaser.

And if you're a people pleaser,

a good tool to have is to be able to read a room

and to read how people are feeling, things like that.

So, from a very early age, I just wanted everyone to like me.

So, I think, but inevitably,

there were many disasters and often it didn't happen.

So, because desperation, desperately wanting to be like,

can also sometimes be enough putting energy to be around.

But I think there was that,

so gauging what people are like and knowing how to read them.

And also, my family is very good.

We would often, like, with love, laugh at the neighbourhood.

We would often, like, we loved just discussing the people

that show up to view novels that weren't really connected,

like the ham and cheese quiches at the WAC.

You know, we just love that kind of detail.

Like a family debrief in a safe space about, yeah.

That's what I still do that now with a cousin of mine,

is sit on the periphery of a situation

and then wait till everyone's gone and then rip everyone to pieces.

With love is the important part

and we'll get to the sort of characters in a Snapchat stuff in a bit.

But I feel like all of that stuff,

like satire is such a delicate blend of if it's done

in a mean spirit, it can be really wrong.

But if done with warmth and with love,

like you talk about your family laughing at the neighbourhood with love,

that's an important part of it, right?

I think the satire, like, I think that I've tried to be vicious sometimes

and I have been vicious,

but I think when you're in someone's shoes,

or their work, or you've got their face on your face,

inevitably you have some kind of sympathy,

you kind of understand them a bit more.

And I also think that I just naturally want to go

into their character and I want to kind of be that person

rather than a satire of, like, judging them while you're doing it, I think.

We'll talk about your prolific writing a little bit later on,

but that writing journey started very early in Matamata, right?

That's right, yeah.

So I watched Little Shop of Horrors at the Matamata Dramatic Society

and was, like, just blown away because I love plants

and then there was this carnivorous plant, I loved horror,

and then it was kind of a musical as well

and it was set in Skidron and I just loved everything about it.

So I wrote a sequel to it, which was beat by beat exactly the same,

but it was set in a school rather than at the florist

and then I put it on at my school.

How old were you?

Like, nine, ten.

Amazing.

Terribly stressful.

You used to have that script?

Oh, God, I hope not.

And, yeah, no, God, I hope not.

Had you seen the Rick Moranis version at that stage?

Yeah.

No, I hadn't, and then I watched it afterwards

because this back then, I think that, you know,

like getting a tape from the VHS, from, you know,

Video Easy or whatever it was, was actually quite hard in my situation.

I think for something, you know, like,

I'd be fighting with my brother and sister to get what,

so I didn't watch it, it was on television many years later.

Because you're the youngest of three.

Is there a big age gap between you and your siblings?

No, there's four years between me and my brother

and then six with my sister.

Right.

So, yeah, the writing obviously started at a young age

and you've been prolific.

I think the number I saw was 50 plus scripts you've written?

Yes.

Damn.

Yes, yes.

Like, it's the thing of any artist.

Like, you just think about, like, I'd be happy with probably two of those.

Right.

Like, you just, like, my soul cringes thinking about

what I put out into the world.

But two of them, I'd be like, OK, I get it.

You've got to slay a few dragons to get to the princess, right?

You've got to, you've got to crack a few eggs before you make...

Or prints.

Or prints.

You've got to crack a few eggs before you make an omelette.

That must be well over the 10,000 hour mark for mastery.

That's good.

Have I talked about that?

Have you picked this up from me?

No, I'm a Madwell fan, so...

Oh, yeah, I'm a big fan of the 10...

I think it's true.

Really?

I do.

So you must have done more than 10,000 hours.

Probably, yeah.

I think it's more, well, in terms of storytelling in general,

I think, yeah, probably.

How many hours you put in as an insect coach?

Being quite masterful.

Not enough, unfortunately.

I couldn't make that maggot do it.

I couldn't make that maggot walk to kill, crawl to camera.

And high school wise, I don't...

We're both Hamilton boys, old boys.

Yes, great.

I don't claim to know much of Matamata College's operatic

prolifancy.

Yes.

But were you the lead in all of the shows?

It took me a little while to get there.

I was the lead by 7th form, year 13.

I was the lead.

But I was duty in Greece when I was 14.

And then we did this one called Smitty, some kind of plane.

I was the nerd in that.

And so, building up to the lead.

Did your acting chops extend over to Hamilton?

Did you dip your toe into anything at...

What's that one, Clarence Street Theatre?

Yeah.

Founders Theatre.

You know what?

You know what?

I didn't.

Really?

No, I didn't.

People did do that.

I think my sister did it.

I think she was in the course for Jesus Christ Superstar,

and I just love that.

You didn't?

I didn't get over there.

You didn't get in your...

No, but we did have Sheila Wynne.

Can you remember the Sheila Wynne's chase?

Did your school do that?

No.

Sheila Wynne's Shakespeare competition.

Oh, maybe.

I don't know.

There's more Jonathan Ho territory.

Sorry, Jonathan Austin.

And the...

Each school would kind of do a little section of Shakespeare,

and we'd all compete together.

And then the winners would go down to Wellington,

and then the winners from that would go to the club.

I did do that.

I'd just make it to the club.

There we go.

We did Othello.

Perfect.

The old black ram is tupping the white you.

There we go.

Look at my guy.

Yeah, I do remember that.

I want to jump ahead a little bit.

When I was talking to Shay earlier about how excited we were to have you on the show,

it's mostly to do with your Snapchat and Instagram and Facebook characters you produce.

Again, same age, like the nostalgic stuff you've been doing with the playground,

and the ripped girl, and the billabong, and the school lunches,

and it speaks to me so strongly.

I was wondering if we could go back to the start and sort of paint the picture

from the beginning of Snapchat.

I think 2017, when Snapchat vids were like 10 seconds, right?

So you created your first one and sort of paint the picture

of how things evolved from there?

Probably started about 2016.

Everyone had had Snapchat for a year or two.

I don't know when Snapchat came out, but everyone had had it,

and I thought it was a bit silly.

And then I was like playing with it on someone's phone,

and then I was like, oh, there's something in this.

And then I downloaded it onto my phone and started just making little 10-second videos

and just sharing, not doing anything with them.

And then for some reason I started putting them on my Facebook page,

and I did that for like six months or something,

and then it was getting towards the...

My agent at the time suggested I make a public fan page,

and at the same time we were coming up to the election of the 2017 election.

So I started doing lots of kind of politicians and stuff.

So it was just this kind of storm in a teacup, everything coming together,

and me doing like one to two minute videos of politicians,

and everyone kind of following it, and then leading up to the election.

Can I just jump in here, because I've just had a flashback way wash over me.

Yes, love it.

And I think Stephen is really downplaying how much of an influence you have been on him,

because I now remember Stephen putting the filters on,

mimicking us as a friend group, recording them, putting them in our chats,

doing the bald head ones, you did all of those.

Yeah, because Snapchat had that thing where you could go

and find a photo of someone in your phone,

and then it would just put that face on your face,

and I thought it was...

Yeah, I think I was watching your stuff at the time.

I was like, oh, I can do this.

Yeah, I did.

It did not hit like Tom Scott did.

No, no, no.

I just...

That tie was tough.

Yeah, I really wish...

I'm going to go back in the chat.

I reckon we can pull some of those out from the archives, and really...

Thanks.

But I do remember...

I did catch on to you very early,

and I remember looking at your follow account, and it was low,

and I was like, fuck, this guy is nailing these.

Like, this has gone to explode.

Did you notice...

Like, was there a pace to how quickly the followers started piling up?

Not that I was really aware of.

I just remember my first video that got over 50 reactions to it.

I'm like celebrating that, thinking this is amazing.

And then when the next one got to 63, I was like, what?

This is amazing.

And then by the time the election came around,

I was getting 2,000 to 3,000 reactions from people.

But it's so...

All of it is so...

Is it female with the right word?

I don't know.

It's all it is, it's numbers on a screen.

There's no kind of...

You don't know what this...

You don't know what this...

It has no emotional impact on you.

You can kind of get it psychologically.

But to actually think about what that is, is incomprehensible for me.

Yeah, and to see...

This was, what, five, six years ago.

To see where you have gone to with your career and how it's built then,

it was obviously...

It started to explode from that base.

But in that base, as that's growing, you don't know what it means.

You don't know what a couple of thousand extra likes mean.

But what it does mean is that your brand is just sort of everywhere, right?

Yeah, it's just getting picked up.

What's really good, I think, is that people can kind of come and go.

Obviously, I've been doing it for so long now.

And it's fine.

People like me for a year or something and they're kind of following everything

and then they disappear and sometimes they come back.

The good thing about social media is that people can choose to follow

and enjoy and liken things.

And so, I don't...

I don't know, I don't feel bad about forcing myself on anyone.

And it means that you've got this kind of loyal fan base of people that really support you.

So it's a really good way.

I really like it.

Forgive me for this train of conversation because I know that you get asked about it a lot.

But it is so interesting and it's a real key part of your journey,

which is your Paula Bennett impersonations and Simon Bridges.

It seems like when you did Paula and Simon, I'm not sure of the timeline here,

that's when things really ramped up.

Is that fair?

Yeah, so I did all the politicians.

I tried to do all the politicians, but the one that always people kind of gravitated to

and liked the most was just me doing Paula was the one that really took off.

And in the end, like around the week leading up, the week before and the week after the election,

it was just Paula, Paula, Paula every day, me doing Paula, Paula, Paula, the Paula, real Paula.

And yeah, so it wasn't conscientious.

It wasn't kind of thinking about it, conscious, sorry.

But it just kind of happened.

And then the Simon Bridges thing again, because I saw him the other day and he's like,

he was very charming in things.

And he's like, where did the acrostic poem thing come from?

And I can't really remember.

I think I was just doing one for him.

I was doing a video of him and I thought, just as a funny idea,

I would just do an acrostic poem with Toad along the side and then just words that's fit with that,

like all I remember is R was retirement village.

I can't remember what the other ones were.

And then everyone kind of reacted so well to that, that that just became his thing.

And it's the same with all the characters.

I've got this wine reviewer called Fiona who's really popular.

She's still really popular now.

And I just kind of did that video just once, just as a laugh and I was kind of enjoying it.

And then it just, I guess, that's a good thing is that you can kind of see what's kind of working with the audience

and then just kind of go with it.

Is it that flippant?

The ideas, like, oh, this might work.

This will be a good idea.

Phone, record, send.

You got it.

Yeah, is it it?

Yeah, that kind of little thought put to it.

And when you do trying to kind of think about things,

because there's no way of telling what will be popular and won't be popular.

Like, I think as a general rule, Fiona will be popular.

But I can do any other video and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to why something works and why doesn't after all these years.

I think that's why it catches fire, the quickness you're able to turn these things around.

Like same day, there was that the famous one where Simon Bridges called Paula Bennett, Paula Benefit.

And I think maybe that afternoon you had turned that into a satirical video

which spoke to the whole ridiculousness of the situation.

And like that, that is gold.

Yeah, that's what's so good about it.

Definitely.

It's a short amount of time.

There was one interesting thread about Paula Bennett's office

thinking that you had like an inside leak into, like, what was going on?

Was it a Taylor Swift thing there?

That's right.

My Paula Bennett started using Taylor Swift's Shake It Off as her theme tune

just to deal with like all the highs and lows of campaigning.

And then apparently Paula on that very day had done the same thing.

And there was something about a new dress and there was also something about a car

that was happening within a few short days of each other.

I think that we were just, me and Paula were just the collective consciousness

binding together in the great ether.

But in reality, I don't know.

Danger is probably the wrong word.

But people like, I guess it's good that you bring attention to politics

and political issues through the stuff that you do.

But you're left leaning, aren't you?

And Paula being part of the National Party was kind of,

did that create your own kind of little internal dilemma?

Yeah, really good question.

It's kind of like all over the place because I don't want to be overly mean.

Like I wanted to critique what people do but not critique people.

That's my wish is not to critique people who they are

but like what they choose to do and choose to say is what you can kind of critique them on.

And it was two things.

Like I was having left-leaning friends saying, you're making her likeable.

So which is a bad thing.

And then I had my right-leaning friends or few that I have are saying that

why don't you take the piss more out of Labour politicians and things too.

So it was something to walk, a fine line to walk.

But you also found yourself in this weird space where you were bringing politics

to people who otherwise wouldn't be tuned in on it, right?

People were learning about political storylines and things through your characters.

That's right. People coming to me for their big responsibility.

I'd say the overwhelming majority of stuff you put out seems to be universally accepted

as good and funny. They're sort of cherry things.

But there are some and I've heard you talk about it

where you know they're going to cause some division

but you decide to put them out there anyway.

And I think one good example of that is when Jandals was run over.

Paddles?

Paddles.

Who's Jandals?

I love Jandals.

Paddles.

RIP.

And I think you said that you had like an hour moral debate with yourself

whether or not I'm going to go after this or not

and decided to and then, you know, like you expected, it caused division.

Just for reference, Paddles was Jacinda Ardern's cat.

Cat. That was run over, yes.

Just in case anybody listening didn't know the Jandals can.

Paddles reference.

Yeah, sorry about that.

So yeah, can you talk about that conscious decision of putting stuff out there

which you know is going to be divisive to your sort of overwhelmingly loving audience?

It's a good one and probably three quarters of the time I do post it

even though I know it's going to be controversial, I still kind of do it.

And why do I do it?

I don't like because it's such a good idea and it's so good to

and it's worthy of being put out there and it's kind of expected of me to make

some kind of commentary on it.

Another one was when all the bushfires had took out a billion animals in Australia.

And I did a video of a woman being upset about all the animals dying while eating

a chicken sandwich just to kind of highlight the kind of irony of the situation

and that got so much hatred as well.

When I did take down, I was playing a soldier going to Ukraine

and that was universally hated so I just kind of discreetly took that one off.

And in terms of, but then like it's also, I found it's like you can be contentious

and the next day comes around and you just put a new video and most people forget.

So you can kind of, yeah, and it's good to break eggs and make it all that.

I mean, if you follow Ricky Gervais as you tend to do, his stand-up is all about

those putting contentious things out to the world.

His Twitter account is all about that as well.

So yeah, I think there's a certain amount to be said for putting some,

I don't know the right word, but putting some questionable stuff out there sometimes

that does push people's thinking at the same time as being a commentary on what

we consider outrageous or not.

I agree. I feel like Ricky is so comfortable doing it though.

And I think I come such a people pleaser that it's just such a nightmare sometimes.

Do you get physically anxious when you're going to put something out there?

I do sometimes, yeah.

Right.

Or it's more, but sometimes, you know, half the time I put it out there thinking

there's nothing of it.

And then I'm like, oh, that's controversial.

And then it's too late.

People are just putting angry faces beside it.

And what's your connection with the comments?

Do you go digging in?

See what people are writing?

Or you leave that?

I leave that.

And I've also kind of entered any kind of, people can't direct message me either.

Oh really?

Yeah.

Because it's 90%, 99% of them are really good.

And then the 1% is the one that kind of gets to you.

I tend to read the ones on Instagram because I think that Instagram ones are like much

less contentious and it's just me doing stupid skits.

And I do read the comments of that one just because I kind of like to engage those people

and they've usually got something funny to say.

Just on this topic, I wanted this video of this, and just to about with, in sync with Paula,

I did this video of this costume designer in a small community theatre who was putting

on Legally Blonde the, was putting on Legally Blonde the musical.

This is all fantasy.

This is me making it up.

And I was talking, I was pitching about all this, the director and all the cast and stuff

like that.

And then I got all these messages because it was a woman who was exactly like this.

And there's one of the characters like, one of the boys in the cast, you know, he was

clearly very flamboyant and closeted and he'd lost a whole lot of weight in my storyline.

And then I got a message from this boy who had gone through exactly that tune.

I swear, I don't know anything about you.

It was just a coincidence.

Is there, with some of the stuff that you do do though, you must draw and lean on some

real life examples.

100%.

Yeah.

Does your friend group sometimes think, I've got to be mindful of what I say here because

this could be used in ammunition.

There's, yeah, 100%.

And sometimes I'm like, I have to send messages because sometimes it just goes into my head

and I don't even really think about where the source is.

It's just such a good idea.

And I put it on and my friends are like, hang on a second.

They were sitting in the strictest of privacy, right, you know, in the confidence.

And then other times I've also had celebrities or, you know, politicians and things that

are made.

Oh, I have to be really quiet.

I can't say anything around you.

But then they just open up to me anyway.

Have you ever had anyone come to you and say, I'd really like you to do me?

Could you parody me?

I'd really like you to do me.

Either either.

Whatever.

I wish more of the beginning.

First, the former.

I haven't had, I haven't had that.

I've had like Clark.

Oh, no, Clark Gafford wanted me.

I like he'd Clark Gafford wanted me to parody him.

Little realising I've already done him maybe five times and I didn't say, I just was like,

that's such a good idea.

We'll be right back after this short break.

So as this profile is growing.

I imagine that there's an avalanche of sponsors and commercial opportunities and people trying

to get on those pages.

But I've noticed there's never any ads, right?

They're all just organic.

It's just you've made a conscious decision just to leave it.

There's a few.

I've done a few like I've done one for corporate traveler, which is I kind of like when I do

do that sponsorship stuff, I'm like, I want it to be as brief as quickly as possible and

I just drown it in another quantity.

And I also want to like something like corporate travel, which is just an organisation to help

people to help people organise the travel for them.

I'm like, okay, that's the thing that I can kind of be on board with and there are small

companies, so I'm okay doing that.

And then there was another one that Charlie's Juice also got me to do something.

So I was kind of happy to do that.

The Graham Henry.

The Graham Henry one.

We got seen that as well.

We didn't do anything with it.

Oops.

Let it get out of the way.

I'm a corporate traveler one.

I just picked it as organic content.

I didn't make the link at all.

Oh, good.

Yeah.

Good.

Also, like I just did one inadvertently because I'm addicted to cross-codes.

So I just did one about cross-codes.

So everyone's like, are you getting paid to do this?

Because you know, I was just so kind of positive about cross-codes.

Yeah.

The longevity of it too.

Like it's still so prolific, right?

Is it one a day still?

Two or three years later?

Yeah.

That's such an incredible output.

Are you filming?

Are you having like a day set aside where you do like five different ones?

It's a good question.

And ultimately I'd love it to be like that.

But it's just like, my baseline is quite lazy.

And so like just doing one video exhausts me and lets me for the done for the morning.

So like, sometimes I've done two videos.

Occasionally I've done three, but it's hard to do more.

We've spoken to Haley Sproul and she is notoriously busy.

I had you pictured as the Haley Sproul version of yourself, like that busy.

Are you busy, busy, busy?

Because you say you're notoriously lazy, but I refuse to believe that.

I think that, I think lots of people, because my output and my work is so kind of,

everyone can kind of see it.

So I think that people, and I'm kind of there.

So people assume that I'm working behind the scenes.

But there are lots of, like Haley's doing, you know, radio every morning.

Like absolutely could not do that.

I don't know how you guys, I don't know how the world does it, the media.

But they're not monetising it much, I guess, rewards itself by so many people are watching these things

that other opportunities as the years went by came about because of it.

You got it.

Yeah, like I'd say, who knows, but maybe even 100% of all the work that I've got

has been a result of having a profile or, you know, even getting that audition

just because people know who you are and what you're capable of.

Is it a weird moment when, and I'm thinking of the, I think it was the People's Choice Awards in 2017

where you're on stage dressed as Paula Bennett next to Jacinda Ardern,

like talking to a crowd where you're like, holy shit, like this is just something I've just created from my bedroom

and now it's brought to life and this is a kind of a weird situation.

And like at the time the adrenaline was going, there were so many people backstage,

like I couldn't think about, I had to remember my lines.

I had to, they were giving me cues and stuff.

You're so kind of caught up in the adrenaline of it.

So when it's happening, you're not even, you're not even, I wasn't even present.

That's not true afterwards, you're like, that is pretty crazy.

And it was also pretty crazy when you do think it's just me on my couch making this video

and, you know, some of these videos are getting 100,000, 200,000 views

and you're like, all these people are just privy to my living room

and I'm not even aware of it.

But do you get become more comfortable with it?

Like your stuff, man, the one of you dancing in the banana the other day

had me fucking laughing, just the silly little dances.

And you're like, he's just put this up.

I don't think, yeah, obviously, you know how many people are watching it.

That one's a good one because the kitchen was a tip.

So I was like, look, the least you can do,

Sainsbury, is clean the kitchen before you film.

We had a musician example on a couple of months ago

and he did a viral video with his girlfriend

and she was dancing around in her undies

and I think it said like 40 million views.

Yeah, I just uploaded it to YouTube and said 40 million views.

It's crazy.

It's a lot of eyeballs.

And the eyeballs peaked during COVID times.

Has that seemed to have slowed down for you at all?

It's really interesting.

I think what was COVID was sustained,

like every single video got an audience.

Now, and I'm kind of okay with this,

it's highs and lows.

Like sometimes there are just times when people just aren't engaging with it

for a couple of weeks or whatever,

and then even an event will happen,

a politician will say something stupid, I do a video

and then I just get a whole burst at burst again.

I think that's good because there's definitely saturation point

and people get so bored of you if you're always hitting that level.

So I'm at peace with that.

And Paula and Simon have now left the politics world.

It is an election year this year.

Do you start to rub your hands about the characters that might come out

that might give you some fodder?

Well, as I was saying to Simon Bridges when I saw him last week,

the characters aren't there so much.

There aren't the outrageous people at the moment.

Judy Collins is still there and so maybe it's time to get into her more.

I'm just hoping, it's when the campaigning begins

is when people start to shine.

And so I look forward to it.

Could we see Fiona back on the campaign trail at all?

That's such a good look.

I'm thinking someone needs to,

but to actually get a political party, it's quite involved.

You've got to get like hundreds of people.

You've got to get like different people to fill in.

I mean, here we go.

Secretarian president right here.

So tell a story because you had this on the nose.

I'm not really sure about this.

Fiona.

Ranford.

Merrill T.

Yeah, that's right.

Merrill T.

2019?

I don't remember.

She was up against who won that year.

Phil Goff won that year.

So that was two.

The one before.

That's right.

This one.

And she, the thing is you've got to,

it was all embarrassing for me.

Someone told me to do it the day before.

I was like, that's such a good idea,

but the close-off was the next day.

So I went in to,

you've got to go on in person to sign up.

And I went up there.

And I wanted to put it under Fiona's name.

But they're like, no, it has to be your name,

but you can have a photo there of Fiona.

So I gave my little, my, my,

so I had to go on and get a passport photo of Fiona.

And hand that to them.

And then me just stand at the counter while she went

and talk to her boss.

I was like, this is so embarrassing.

And she's like, that'll be fun.

That'll be a lot of fun.

And then it just kind of came out and happened.

And also, what was amazing about that,

I did one, I did do a debate with Phil Goff,

who was the three biggies,

the ones that got the most votes.

And then me, the four of us were debating each other.

Anyway, the rest of the time I was like,

all the other, so many people try to be me.

And you're like, these people have got no idea.

And it's just like a who's who of,

like just the outcasts of society.

And we had to do all these kind of debates and things.

It was a glorious character study.

And did you debate in character?

I debated as her representative.

So I became her for that particular debate.

For the other one, we all had to do an air grace.

They invited me to this air grace of all the mayoral candidates.

I thought Phil Goff, et cetera, would be there.

No one was there except for me and someone from,

you know, someone from Pococoa,

and that's running around doing an air grace.

But I ended up getting, do you know how many I got?

I think 3,000 or so votes.

I was going, I was thinking,

because if you get over a hundred,

you get your $200 entry fee something back.

So I was like, if I get to 200, it'll be fine.

But also people were like, what if you get mayor?

He was paying this to me.

Like, what if you actually become, what if he becomes mayor?

Donald Trump.

He ended that prison in the fucking United States.

And it also happened with the...

Thanks, bro.

It also happened with Ukraine's guy was a comedian

who did it as a joke.

People were like, what if you become mayor?

And like, the day before I was like, what if I do become mayor?

I was really thinking it through,

but how I would do and change my life.

And then Phil Goff beat me by 171,000 votes.

Reality check.

We all are your friends there,

like in the debate, like coming along and on the get.

Was it like live audience?

There was, yeah, it was a live audience,

but no, no, it was just me.

There was no genuine supporters, just me standing up,

going, they're like, what are your policies?

They're always like, they were like,

and we're going to deal with Queen Street, blah, blah, blah.

I was like, okay, we need more wine.

We need more vineyards.

Like just serious, serious, serious in the May.

It was just a mockery of democracy.

So was that a, what were your genuine takeaways

from that experience?

Did you have any, because you are a study,

a student of human behavior.

So you must have had some kind of genuine takeaways

from that experience.

It was fascinating seeing them.

God, what's his name?

What's, it's not, who's the guy I'm thinking of that?

He's...

Jude Dobson.

Jude Dobson.

I mentioned recently, God, who last name.

He's a guy who was in politics for a while.

He was going to be the mayor.

Can you remember?

Ruth Hart?

Jude Hart?

No.

Len Brown?

No.

Anyway, you'll know him.

Anyway, it was interesting to see them, him and Phil Goff,

really going at it on the debate stage,

and then just being like normal,

just quite casual with each other afterwards,

and like how much of it is performative?

80% of it's performative.

Well, in that regard,

you should be a shoe-in for the general election.

What will my party be called?

Sainsbury's.

The Sainsbury party.

The polite party.

Sainsbury and Sainsbury.

People police's party.

Yeah, yeah, PPP.

You and your dad.

Okay, that's great.

So all of this stuff,

these characters you create on your own,

you're the director, you're the actor,

you're the writer.

But as we build into the rest of your prolific work,

you're working in teams.

Like a lot of writers' rooms.

They're dynamic, different.

Are you okay taking feedback from others

about what you're putting out here?

Good question.

I struggle sometimes.

It's an ugly thing.

I wish I just could take on any criticism or any notes,

even though when I know it's good,

there's some kind of like,

there's some kind of,

something there that reacts to it badly.

Even when the notes,

I'm like, oh my God, that makes so much sense.

So I'm working on that.

In terms of the writer's room and stuff,

when it's not, well, sorry,

that's when it's my idea,

and if someone's giving me feedback

on what my idea is,

that's a little bit harder.

But if I'm working for someone else,

it's absolutely fine.

And being in the writer's room,

I tend to either want to become the boss,

or I'm happy to be a team player.

Yeah, who's advisor,

when you're writing by yourself,

who is qualified to give you advice

on what to change?

It would be like,

it would be, say I write a film script

or something like that,

and then you send it to a script advisor or something,

you know, there's various people,

and I get it, you have to,

someone's got to kind of test it.

It's usually, it's usually the film things

that are the issues.

It's an ugly quality.

Yeah, I've written down,

so when on your IMDb page,

late this afternoon,

just to see sort of what you've been in,

and it's a long list there.

Oh, is it?

Well-rounded too.

Who updates this?

I know, it's like Wikipedia, who does this?

But for the listeners who don't know,

like, I'm just going to read a few,

like there's Super City, Shortland Street,

Golden Boy Educators,

which I love educators, by the way,

Wellington Paranormal,

the Adventures of Susie Boone,

like, that's a very small list.

That's a very small portion of the shows

you've either been in, an actor or a writer.

But I've heard you say that,

you know, directing is actually your,

your dream job would be directing,

rather than acting or writing, is it?

I think so.

I think it's a hard one,

because I do kind of enjoy everything.

Writing, I find, is the hardest,

but maybe it's the most,

well, I don't know.

I think if an amazing role came along,

I would kind of give up everything

to do the acting role.

The problem with acting is that

you're essentially a warm prop,

you're doing someone else's kind of thing,

and it might be an amazing role,

but then like someone else has got

this different vision from it,

and then it all becomes murky,

and then blah, blah, blah.

So, I think with directing,

you're the one to,

you've got the most control,

but you're also the one that's,

if things go wrong,

you also like to blame for it.

And I think that's the most satisfying place to be.

Because you can do an amazing,

you can be acting in something

and giving it your all,

and you could do a really good job,

but an editing could come along or something

just ruins the whole work,

which is, so you're like more or less in control.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

When you arrived in Auckland 23 years ago,

straight after high school,

it was with ambitions to be

like a drama actor, is that right?

That's right, yeah.

And then kind of comedy hijacked it.

Yeah.

That's my initial, yes,

I just wanted to be a dramatic actor,

and then I hung out with all these dramatic actors

who took it all very, very seriously,

and they did this technique

called the Meister Technique,

which is really drawing on yourself,

and it's a really good,

it works really well for some people.

And it took me a good 10 years

to realise that there's this other branch of acting,

so Haley Sproul's really good at this,

which is quite clownish,

which is like you kind of take an element,

you can just have a silly walk and something,

that becomes a character and things like that,

so it took me a long time to discover

the right fit for me, for style.

Is the anxiety or nerves the same

for like theatre acting versus stand-up comedy?

Like is stand-up comedy something

which terrified you to start with,

and now you're comfortable with it?

Because you came into that quite late in your career, right?

You got it.

I kind of came into it,

there was a whole lot of us actors at the time

and who wanted to kind of work regularly,

and that's what stand-up allows you to do,

you can just kind of do a gig anywhere,

any night of the week.

I think they are probably more,

it's probably more nerve-racking to do stand-up still,

because it is just you, I think.

Like when you're doing an acting with another actor,

it kind of shares the load a little bit,

so I would say it was still more.

And you're stand-up, are you doing characters?

No, I've tried it, and it just doesn't,

you've got to really commit if you're to do characters

and stand-up, and I'm much more kind of easy breezy,

and it's usually just me with a mic just talking

stupid stories about trying to get maggots to perform.

Because character comedy versus stand-up comedy

have very different types of comedy as well.

Yes, absolutely.

The thing about doing just regular stand-up

is that you can be a lot more kind of shifting,

and you can kind of move,

you're like, oh, that story's not working,

I can just jump onto my next story.

Whereas if you're a character, you've got to commit to it,

and if the audience isn't vibing with it,

you kind of trap with them till the end.

But like, yeah.

What about your singing journey?

Good question.

In the doldrums.

We subscribe to the theory that your voice gets better with age.

Is that something that you've found?

No.

Sometimes I record myself going,

what, it's because I've been taking lessons for God knows how long.

I've improved, but I've probably gone,

most people would be at 5 out of 10,

and I've gone from a 1 out of 10 to maybe a 4 out of 10.

Well, 400%.

Yeah, you've improved enough to be a contestant on the Masked Singer.

You have got it!

Eliminated too early, in my opinion.

She's a big reality TV.

What's your favourite?

Well, you're going to think,

oh, you're just saying this because you've seen it in your research.

But I do like Survivor, I do like the study of human behaviour.

Big brother, those sorts of shows.

I feel like I'd win one of those competitions

because I can manipulate people, I think, with my charm.

And you've got pretty high props on yourself.

Yeah, big time.

And also you can just say,

yes, that's the main thing.

With the Masked Singer,

that was, well, the first one that they got,

thankfully I got to choose my own songs.

Other people didn't.

People with ruses.

Well, the good thing about Bonfunk MC is it's essentially just rap.

There's like two lines that you have to reach.

You have to be on...

There's two bits in it where you have to be in tune.

The rest of it's just free-form.

Just all over the place.

Free-style.

But the dancing was impressive.

Big sweaty mess when their head come off.

Oh, you wouldn't believe that.

And also you can't see,

all you can see is basically from...

You can barely see anything.

And they're like, really,

you're encouraged to dance as much as you can.

It was a wonderful nightmare.

And did I hear the judges calling you

thinking that you were Richie McCaw, which is a...

I know.

But...

they knew it was me.

Oh, really?

Oh, you're shattering the illusion.

They knew.

They said that I was the only one in their first one.

They knew who it was.

I was like, what?

What am I even doing here?

They knew beforehand or there was a tell?

Or there was a mole?

They could tell, I don't know,

just me mincing around on stage.

There's only one person that can be

at Sainsbury.

Because we had Mikey Havoc in here

shortly afterwards.

The secrecy involved in that show that he went

was like it was top secret, secret stuff.

Oh.

You had to be in...

Yeah, it was incredible.

Some would say too much,

but still.

Still, yeah, it was really incredible.

You had to stay in your room.

You had to be there all day.

You had to eat lunch.

You had to be carried.

You had to kind of be carried out in your suit

because no one's allowed to say.

All the audience, when they did the reveal,

the audience had to leave.

It was incredible.

And Dancing With The Stars is an ambition,

a genuine ambition of yours?

It was for a long time.

And now I'm like, I don't know anymore.

Because we did, or I did, we did.

We did.

In April Fool,

which had me as announcing myself

as a contestant on Dancing With The Stars,

playing into my love of reality shows,

I think about 90% of people thought it was genuine,

which I don't know if that speaks to the calibre

of people that go on the show.

My popularity, or people's faith in my ability to dance.

It was quite, it turned a bit,

I don't know what the right word is,

but it was an overwhelming landslide

of positive, like really, really excited

that Shane is going on the show.

It's going to be so great.

I'm going to follow every step of your journey.

Well, the show's been cancelled for two years now.

Yeah.

I'm excited about you getting on to,

I'm excited about you getting on to an island somewhere.

I think you should.

I'd love to.

I just don't think I'm at that level.

Unless there's like,

they still do Survivor,

Pleabiddishan or something like that.

There's always a few sort of shitters in there, I know.

Thanks.

Thanks.

You haven't been tapped up for a celebrity treasure island,

or a...

I was for this last one,

but a job, the timing just didn't work.

Right.

A job, like a two-day job for America came up,

and I was just like,

I have to choose this,

rather than have this amazing adventure.

But you do have a love of Survivor, right?

I'm right in quoting that.

Yes.

And is that the study of kind of human behaviour

and how they interact with people?

And just the formula is so clever.

It's just, you know,

who's going to be eliminated this week?

It's just so clever.

Do you have a favourite series or a favourite?

Yeah.

From America.

Okay.

I'm an Australian Survivor fan.

Oh, see, everyone's just talked about this one.

Was it a hero's versus...

Was there one that's recent?

A villain's versus...

Everyone's raving about it,

and they're like,

you have to watch this,

especially for one specific episode.

So, yes, there's someone next one.

The one that I love is called

Survivor Gabon set in Africa.

Oh, nice.

Your, like, friend groups,

peppered with comedians and people of profile

who are often in these reality shows,

do you always go out of your way

to watch them when they're on,

or is it just too much?

Like, would that mean

watching every show that's out there?

That's a really good question,

and the answer is I don't watch them.

I don't watch them.

I watched...

When I was about...

When I was almost doing this last season

of Treasure Island,

I did watch one in completion.

I was like,

I love it.

I'm hot.

I really enjoyed it.

So that was the Karen O'Leary,

Paulina Lau,

my friends who were in that one.

But, yes, I watched...

Well, as soon as I knew Chris had won,

Chris Packard won,

I watched probably the last...

Yeah, was that secret?

How early did you get the tip on that?

Can't say.

Can't say.

Just pull the curtain back on one more show for me,

and that is Snackmasters.

Yes.

Did you get to taste the final versions

of what everybody brought out?

Yeah.

Unfortunately, not always.

Also, I'm a vegetarian,

so the meat and the chicken ones...

Yeah, the big vehemence pie

would have not a fence and cheese.

I did have sneaky things,

but it wasn't part of it, yeah.

How close were some of those concoctions to the ones...

The licorice all sorts, for example, did you?

None of them tasted...

The ones that I tried

were definitely not.

Right.

But some of them were remarkably looked like it.

Okay.

Yeah.

It was a great show, premise for a show, I reckon.

Yeah, so another one...

We're doing it again,

but I'm like, I don't know what the snacks are going to be,

but now that's opened up,

because how much is made in Australia,

which we weren't allowed to go into last time,

because of the lockdown.

So who knows?

Pineapple lumps.

Shay talking about a reality TV show Snackmasters.

I think that's your happy place, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, the KFC and the Big Mac with the fries,

I just felt like...

Because you want to be able to recreate them at home,

if you can.

Okay.

The chip one, they gave me...

Because I went out to the field where they grew the potatoes,

and they gave me the potatoes.

I was like, you know,

I'm just going to experiment with this,

because this is a specific breed of potato.

And I made chips.

I made Eater chips or Eater Riffles chips at home.

Really?

Yeah.

You can make it.

You just have to get the right potato.

Did you put them in the air fryer,

or just the...

No, I just...

No, I just got the fat bubbling away on the stove

to open chuck them in.

Right.

I think we've lost a lot of...

We've lost a lot of our listeners,

but it's very...

I'll pull us back out of here.

Yeah, and we won't keep you much longer.

But I am interested in, like, the structure of your week,

because we've talked about...

There's so many little bits and pieces.

There's videos, there's writing,

there's stand-up comedy next month.

Like, do you have a structure to your working day?

Like, are you good at mapping out

what part of your day you're going to do what?

No.

Very fast and loose and deep.

Because it's so varied,

and, like, there's no real weekends or anything like that.

I think I get this wonderful window,

and it's been happening for the last decade, maybe,

of, like, from seven in the morning till ten,

there's quite a bit of energy.

And then from nine p.m. at night to midnight,

there's quite a bit of energy, too.

So those are my...

The most productive things.

And sometimes that's...

There's something quite nice about nighttime.

If you're not going to be getting emails,

or you're not going to be distracted,

so you can kind of focus

and just do your writing all of it in those times.

So, secondary to that, how much of your day

is just trawling through social media,

getting ideas or seeing what's trending?

Yeah, I need to work out...

Because sometimes I get my screen time thing,

and it's like five, six hours a day.

Like, oof.

But some of that works, you know.

I need to work out how much time

she's spent on social media.

There would be a good...

I get into the zone,

and sometimes hours can go past of just scrolling.

Do you have a preferred medium?

It would be...

TikTok or Instagramary.

Like, I just go on to...

Because I love Instagram,

and that's where I kind of post my stuff.

And I do kind of like seeing what my friends

are up to and things on these stories.

But it would probably be Instagramary also.

Yeah, it's a real...

You can lose a lot of time in there, can't you?

Steven got me onto TikTok,

and I think I lost a month or two.

Yeah.

And then I've had to just push it to the side

because it was just only fans' links.

It speaks to my algorithm.

Mines or cats or people having disaster...

Like, either cats, disasters,

or people falling over skateboarding.

Mine is parenting hacks and street fights.

And golf, is that what you got?

Golfing and golf, yeah.

Yeah, golfing and golf.

It's a real eclectic mix.

I can't even talk.

I did want to...

I was meant to talk about this earlier,

but in around the 2017 period,

you went and spent some time with Hamish and Andy,

and you worked on their show over there.

Yes, that's right.

That was kind of...

I mean, they're always big and they're still big now,

but that was kind of like at the height of stardom.

Was that...

Do you have any memorable...

One I can...

Well, it was...

So, with them, I went over and I did a show.

They were doing a show where people come up right in with silly stories,

and then they get reenacted.

And I...

The one that I auditioned for and got was about...

was set into need and someone ate a shit.

Sorry.

I didn't see that coming.

And so, I was like playing a scarfie.

I was playing a Dimitriun scarfie.

I freaked out because I was so adamant that I looked exactly like

the person that it was based on,

that they said,

are you okay with contact lenses?

And I was like, yeah, I'm sweet as with contact lenses.

Put them on.

I was like, this is terrible.

I can't handle this.

Is she putting it on?

All my reflexes were saying, don't do it.

Finally got them in.

Like, at the beginning of the day,

I was like, you just have to count every minute to get through this day.

So, I was worried about the...

Once I got used to the contact lenses, it was good.

And Hamish and Andy were so inspirational.

Really?

They were so inspirational that they were the...

I mean, it wasn't...

They were there...

Because they filmed me a bit talking to the people later.

But they were both there kind of watching it,

making sure everything was good,

working on everything in their lunchtime and stuff like that.

I really liked them.

They were welcoming everyone to the set.

They had a really good vibe.

Yeah.

Which, again, speaks to why they're so successful.

Because you can see that, that authenticity and that friendship.

And that's cool to know behind the scenes there.

And that's how they really are.

Oh, God, so you don't have an opposing story about them?

No, not at all.

I'm sort of...

They're, I guess, in a way, you know,

two friends who are on this journey of

whatever broadcasting and seeing where it goes,

but inspirational in a different sense

that is a path we would like to...

Yes.

I've got three things to round out what I had on my list.

And they're all quite eclectic.

One was...

Got it on reasonable authority that you are known to party

with some of your fans after shows.

50-plus women in particular.

Is that...

That's right.

Is that true?

I'm kind of open to it.

Like, I've done shows all over the country now.

And if someone's like,

hey, do you want to come out for a drink?

I'll be like, sure, let's do it.

And one time I did this.

So this group of women in Christchurch,

a group of about six women in their late 40s, early 50s,

came in and they were so pissed during the show.

And then they left, I did another show,

and then they come back and they've been drinking the whole time.

I said, oh, come with us, Tom.

And they dragged me downstairs to the pub

and one of them got on the table and started dancing and collab.

Like, it was just...

The whole thing was carnage, but it was brilliant.

And is that a regular?

Not that degree of intoxication,

but I've definitely, yeah,

it would be, I would have done it at least 30 times.

Wow.

And the last two,

one that took me completely out of left field

was practicing Buddhist.

That's right, yeah.

And what does that, again,

I have a very rudimentary appreciation of the religion,

but what does that really mean for you in everyday life?

Or what should that mean for you in everyday life?

Everyday life, that is,

if you're kind of like firing on all cylinders,

like a chant in the morning and the evening

and you'd read a little bit of their kind of scripture

and then you'd also partake in group chantings

or hanging out with other Buddhists

on a Sunday and stuff like that.

Talk about life and philosophy.

And have you travelled to Japan

or anything to kind of further that experience

or further that knowledge?

Yes, so I went to Tokyo,

they've got, so Sokogakkai,

or the Nitrin Daishounen Buddhism,

is the branch which is kind of like

Christianity into like Baptist

or Anglican and things like that,

so I followed this one.

And there's a whole, there's a university in Tokyo

and there's a whole kind of community

and everyone in that community is practices this Buddhism.

And it's just, they're just so zen

and just so sunshiny.

So it's a wonderful area to be in.

Does it lend itself to helping you with your work?

It, yeah, good question.

It probably, it probably makes you,

well, it's all about compassion and things like that,

so it probably helps me try and be more compassionate

to my characters, but also kind of,

it motivates you to make everything as good

as it kind of can be.

And so I guess that helps as well.

Awesome.

Just one last one for me,

and it might be a bit of a fizzle

because I'm not really sure

if it's a good story behind it,

but we asked a bunch of your friends

to tell us, you know, good yarns

or little nuggets about Tom.

And one said there's a good story about a birthday cake,

and it was a party where,

I can't remember if you were moving the cake or something

and it's just, there's been an absolute disaster.

There was, my very good friend Nick Samson was turning 30.

He'd organised this venue.

His girlfriend had made a cake.

There was a big three and a zero.

I can't remember.

The spirit took over me.

Chandelier was playing.

The spirit took over me.

Half of three was gone, most of zero was gone.

I picked it up

and I bought it ceremoniously

put in the middle of the dance floor.

It was a big kind of spectacle.

And then I danced in the cake,

writhing around in the cake

and things like that.

Just covered in cake.

And then Nick got really angry,

yanked me off,

and it wasn't until his hands were grasping

and he pointed me aside.

I was like, what have I done?

Where did I go?

And what have I done?

That seems a bit off-brand for you.

I don't know.

There's some drugs.

I can't remember,

but I do remember afterwards mopping up.

I was like, well, I have to mop up the floor.

It was just icing and cake and every crevice.

Ooh.

Not my crevice.

The party goes.

My final one and it was...

I think it's really amazing

and that is that you are a biological father.

Yes, that's right.

Two children.

That's right.

And you are a sperm donor.

That's right, yes.

And I gather from listening to this in the past,

that that's not particularly...

What's the word?

It's not a service that a lot of Kiwi males offer up.

You got it.

And was that like a...

What drove you to that kind of place?

Good question.

And so, yes, so when I was doing it,

there was only seven men in the whole country

that were kind of donating anonymously

or two people.

I wasn't donating anonymously.

At least a couple approached me to father,

a child, excuse me, a child each.

And they just reached me through a mutual friend

and I started taking...

The reason I said yes, I don't know.

Lots of things happened in my life.

I'm like, why did that happen?

And the reason that happened was because I was starting

doing improv quite regularly

and the rule of improv is always say yes to everything.

And so, like, I sat down, I was like,

I'm going to say yes to everything.

And so they're like,

do you want to father our children?

Yes.

And so that's how that began.

And so now there are two children running around

and one of them I'm going to be hanging out with

so my biological son, who's four,

I'm going to be hanging out with him tomorrow.

So for an hour and a half,

so if you've got any tips, play where should I go

and what to do.

Yes, we can talk.

Steven's the one.

But no, I think maybe it's a call out

to any male listeners that are interested in doing that

because there are a lot of people

that aren't able to fall pregnant

or require that service.

Yeah, huge numbers.

And if you're thinking about it, just check it out.

There's lots of websites that you can go on to

and you just have to kind of test your blood

before and after the samples.

I don't want to go too much into the detail of it,

but again, my reference point is film.

Yes, it's worse.

Is it?

The room.

The donation room, yeah.

Yeah.

The room that I went to was carpeted.

Do you know about this?

It was fully carpeted.

So walls and ceiling.

What?

You would think a room that required this

would be easily wipeable, right?

But no, it was carpeted.

It was carpeted.

And down the middle, there was like office dividers.

Oh.

And then on one side, on both sides,

there were two lazy boys on either side.

I'm like, why are there two?

So I was like, so if they have fast turnaround,

you've got two lazy boys.

But you could hear the other person

just over the other side of the wall.

Anyway, so you're on a plethora of lazy boys.

They had one warehouse stationery filing cabinet on the side,

and inside had a well-thumbed penthouse,

and then that was it.

Oh, they had a sink.

Wow.

And you have to be very, you know,

one of the times, you know,

you've just got to be really precise.

There's a real precision to get it right into the right place.

I don't want to, again, get too graphic,

but I don't feel like the penthouse

would have done much for you.

No, it didn't.

So thankfully, I had Wi-Fi.

I see you're able to bring in your own.

Yeah, okay.

Very good.

That rounds out my list of Tom Sainsbury topics.

There's a good little stream there.

Before we wrap up, what's on,

is there anything you can talk about

which is coming up that you're working on?

Yes, I'm going to,

so I've directed my first feature and acted in it,

and it's going to be out in the Film Festival,

International Film Festival,

in July, August.

Oh, awesome.

Yeah.

International Loop Track.

Loop Track.

New Zealand International Film Festival,

so there'll be Auckland, Wellington,

Christchurch, Dunedin.

Brilliant.

And I was,

International Comedy Fest, Best Foods,

International Comedy Fest,

is in May?

That's right,

but that'll be,

this will be posted after that, right?

Yeah, I was thinking that.

I was thinking that, too.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that.

I hope anyone listening enjoyed your show,

because you are performing it, right?

That's right.

Yeah.

Have you done any podcast hosts

on any of your little videos before?

No, I haven't, but I did,

kind of,

well, I did someone who was like,

it was at BFM and should have left BFM,

but he was kind of going into podcast,

but out of spite and anger.

Yeah.

Okay, well,

I don't know what your experience has been today,

but we'll keep our eyes peeled

to see if anything pops up,

which mirrors how we are.

But anyway, thanks so much, Tom.

This has been awesome.

Like I said, both big fans of your work,

you bring this glow and energy

and fun and zestiness,

if that's a word to life.

So thank you so much for coming in

and sharing some time with us,

but I'm not the outro guy.

It's a big shame.

Yeah, to Steven's point,

it has been amazing,

and I think it's your

relatability with your content

that just speaks so true.

I laughed for ages

at your School C,

the School C skit,

because it brought back

such nostalgic memories

of actually being in school,

and then you doubled down

with the Poppa Jax,

and all of these references

that are just so accurate

and so...

they just evoke such great memories of growing up,

and the fact that you're putting them out there

in the universe is amazing.

But I think one of the parts of your story

that you're putting out in the universe as well

is the humility

to donate

and for you to father to children

is incredible,

so that that bloodline continues,

and you may not be day-to-day

involved in those kids' lives,

but the fact that there's

a little bit of Sainsbury running around

with two little people...

Beware world.

Yeah, long may that legacy continue.

So thank you all the best for all your endeavours

and look forward to whatever

may come from your body of work.

Thank you very much.

Cheers, Tom.

Hey guys, if you've made it this far,

hopefully that means you've enjoyed this episode.

And if you feel strongly enough about it

to share on social media,

that would be much appreciated.

Also, make sure you subscribe to the show

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Catch you next week.

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