Mamamia Out Loud: The 'Disgusting' Wedding Vows We Can't Agree On

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Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud.

It's what women are talking about on Wednesday, the 29th of March.

I'm Holly Wainwright. Sorry, it took me by surprise.

It's always a shock.

Look, my mind wandered off because I started thinking about Claire Stevens being here for Jesse.

I started thinking about the wedding and all that happened in like a 0.5 second.

I forgot my name.

I forgot your name.

I'm Holly Wainwright.

I'm Mia Friedman.

And I'm Claire Stevens filling in for Jesse.

And on the show today, three children and three adults are dead after yet another school shooting in America.

It's hard to know what to do with the despair and how even to cover this story.

But there could be some answers in a congressman's Christmas card that's going to blow your mind.

Plus, does Ruth Witherspoon's divorce announcement tell us something about how non-famous people should share their breakup news?

And the viral wedding vows that everyone on the internet has labelled disgusting.

But first, in case you missed it, Prince Harry unexpectedly turned up in London this week.

And he flew in, everybody, hold on to your pearls, on a commercial flight.

Did he fly a business?

I imagine so possibly first, but definitely commercial, not private jet because he's learned his lesson about what happens when you fly private.

People wag their fingers at you.

He flew in to surprise everybody by turning up to the first day of court proceedings against the Daily Mail's parent company.

Now, this is not the one that him and Meghan had specifically about the letter and all that stuff.

It's not that.

It's not the ones about the leaks.

It's one that he and six other famous names have brought against the Daily Mail's parent company,

alleging that the mail habitually utilizes unlawful information gathering while the publisher has denied it.

Now, the interesting thing about Harry turning up is he didn't have to.

Like, he wasn't giving evidence.

He wasn't on the stand that day, whatever.

He just chose to go.

And a lot of people are like, why?

And then I read a story that told us exactly why.

He wants us to look and everybody stopped looking.

They've all tuned out.

They're not listening to like celebrities whinging about the media, that kind of stuff.

But if Harry turns up and waves outside the court and smiles at people and then looks very serious and concerned, everybody goes, oh, this must be important.

I read that piece too and it called it a stunt.

It said one word explains it and the word is stunt.

And I thought that was really harsh because he is part of this case and he has to deal with everybody.

Following him and photographing him and using his image and his face and his name to sell their newspapers and get clicks on their websites, including the Daily Mail, who he is in this court case about.

And of course, he's going to use his face to put forward his side of an argument or his perspective on something.

Like, that's his right.

His face is his intellectual property and that is a power that he has his presence.

But after all the stuff about, I too scared to go to London.

I can't go to London without the security, et cetera, et cetera.

I mean, I assume they're not paying for his security or maybe they do when he's in London.

Look, he's got the best selling nonfiction book of all time.

I think he can pay for his own security.

I think that the money concerns about paying for his bodyguards may have gone.

To me, it means that even if he doesn't win, there is still going to be enough media coverage of this to have an impact.

And I think that's why he is there.

And the case I kind of liken it to is Hugh Grant.

And all I know there is that bloody news of the world or whatever it was ended up having to close down.

And I think you need a celebrity name and a celebrity face attached to these cases in order for people to care and for courts to pay attention.

We know that that's what happens even if he doesn't win.

No, I don't think it's about whether the courts pay attention, but I think it's whether you get any attention in the attention economy.

And we know that celebrity is the best way to do that.

And he hates, hates, hates these sections of the media.

So, hates all the media.

In his dreams, he's like, we're going to close it all down, Megs.

That's what we're going to do.

This is what he referred to in the documentary, right?

And I think briefly in the book about text messages and emails.

They were being intercepted, but I thought that was news of the world.

I didn't think that was Daily Mail.

I don't know if this is a different case.

Or it is a different case because all that news stuff was ages ago.

Yeah, and was settled.

Here we are again, searing pain and sadness descending tonight on a Nashville, Tennessee community where a heavily armed shooter walked into a private Christian elementary school this morning and murdered three children along with three adults and what police call a targeted attack.

Aren't you guys tired of being here and having to cover all of these mass shootings?

How is this still happening?

How are our children still dying and why are we failing them?

Three children all aged nine and three adults are dead following a school shooting in Nashville, Tennessee.

Police responded to calls for shots fired at the Christian Covenant School and killed the shooter, a 28-year-old, on Monday morning.

Armed with at least two assault rifles and a handgun, the shooter entered the Christian Covenant School from a side door before opening fire.

Officers were on the scene within about 15 minutes of receiving the first emergency call.

At this point, we don't know the motivation for the shooting.

There's talk that there's a manifesto that police are going through.

The shooter had purchased seven guns ahead of the shooting, legally bought from five different stores.

And this was the 129th mass shooting this year.

This year.

This year.

It's March.

In the US.

Shit.

And the 89th school shooting.

This year.

Shit.

Yeah.

Reacting to the shooting in Washington, US President Joe Biden urged Congress to pass more gun reform.

Yeah, we know how this works and Congress says no and people wave their guns around.

Exactly.

And everyone donates to the National Rifle Association because they get scared that their guns are going to be taken away.

So it's a good day for the NRA.

And the Nashville Mayor, John Cooper, expressed his sympathy for the victims and wrote on social media that his city had now joined the dreaded long list of communities to experience a school shooting.

Earlier this week, we were talking about what conservatives were trying to ban in schools.

Talk about periods, for example.

Showing the Statue of David.

Should they not be more focused on gun control?

No, I think books are much more dangerous than guns.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, we're being flippant, but obviously it's a horrific tragedy.

It's important to stay horrified.

But it's also, you throw up your hands and you say, America, what's wrong with you?

I know I get in trouble from all of my American friends and American out louders when I say that.

I know it's not everybody in America, but it's just disparity and despairing.

Seems unbelievable to Australians and not only Australians, lots and lots and lots of other nations too.

That parts of America, not all of America, but parts of America are doing things like, in Tennessee, they have recently banned drag shows.

So no drag shows allowed in Tennessee.

But assault weapons, get in there, you know, like buy as many of them as you want to do anything other would be to restrict our freedom.

But one of the things that is really shocking, I think, to our eyes is that a photo came out of a local politician called Andy Ogles.

He represents the Nashville district.

So this is his district where the shooting happened, the school shooting happened.

And they showed his Christmas card from a couple of years ago, 2021, which showed his whole family, including his three teenage children holding guns in front of the Christmas tree.

Now, I know that this distinction doesn't even matter, but they're not just guns, right?

They're not like just a pistol or just a rifle that perhaps a farmer in Australia might have to kill roos.

They are assault weapons that you see on the fields of war.

It looked to me like a joke, like you've got the incongruity of the Christmas tree and everyone dressed in there like Christmas morning pajamas or festive clothes.

And it looked like they were all holding water pistols, except they were black and they were assault weapons and being at the camera.

And in the hands of teenagers.

And there was also a child in that photo too.

Yeah, it looks so disturbing.

And so a lot of people called him out because he, guys, you just need to know that he did offer thoughts and prayers to the victims of the shooting.

And when he did that, a lot of people said, yeah, probably time to apologize for that photo because that is the thing.

We just can't get our head around the normalization of purchasing and owning these kinds of weapons next to a tragedy.

Like what happened at this school?

The way that I often feel about this is it feels like all the noise of culture wars that we're endlessly reporting on and talking about at the minute that everybody is looking the wrong way.

Because when you are looking at legislation like I was just talking about that you can ban drag shows and you can worry about what books are in the school library and you can worry about, you know, whether or not the art teacher is showing a penis in a statue.

And yet America's blind insistence on holding onto these laws above all else because as me is referenced already today, what everybody says when these things happen and they happen with terrifying regularity is you've just illustrated clay.

I mean, those numbers are terrifying about how many school shootings have been already this year.

What happens is that people get very upset for obvious reasons.

People get very upset about the horror of this and the fact that they can't feel safe sending their kids to school that teachers can't feel safe going to school.

A debate will erupt about what they need to be metal detectors at the school gates and they need to be teachers need to have more safe rooms and guns and all of that will blow up.

And then the people who are very passionately anti gun will share their petitions and their donation drives.

But even though the president of America, Joe Biden is on the record as saying that he would love to ban assault weapons and he actually was part of an administration in the nineties that did ban assault weapons for a time.

But then the Republicans got in and rescinded that legislation.

So even though you've got political will from the Democrats to make it happen, they can't make it happen because there is just this massive stopgap with the Republicans who feel so strongly about this issue that it seems.

And I know this is like hyperbolic language, but it seems like they're happy to have collateral damage in the form of little kids and teachers and first responders and school bus drivers.

And you know, there were 19 kids shot last year in that shooting in Texas in May and it's just mind boggling for everyone else.

And it's part of why I think like when I was growing up, we used to look at America as a very exciting, progressive Disneyland kind of place, the envy of the world in terms of its freedoms.

And I just don't think anybody thinks that way about America anymore.

And this is a large part of it.

And the responsibility of teachers.

So out of those three adults, one was a teacher, one was the head of the school and another had an interesting title that I didn't understand, but sounds like some kind of support person at the school.

There were calls, which seems to happen after all of these tragedies.

Republicans say it's fine.

Teachers just need guns because then teachers that could shoot back and there were teachers saying, so you don't trust us to choose how to educate your kids.

You don't trust us to advise what books they should read, whether we should teach them about the Statue of David.

You don't trust us to do that, but you trust us to have assault weapons in a classroom around your children.

I feel like with these stories, you hear them and sometimes you see a headline and you look over it and you just can't process it.

And sometimes it hits you.

And for some reason, this story hit me and potentially it's because and it's such a selfish way to look at it.

But the Australian actress Tamyn Sersock lives in Nashville and her daughter was in the school next door.

Just as this news broke yesterday, she shared what it was like to get that phone call to say there's an active shooter.

Your daughter's school is in lockdown.

I'm getting on here because there's been an active shooter in one of the schools in Nashville in Green Hills.

It's right next to my daughter's school.

She's on lockdown, she's fine, but check on what's going on.

It's really close to home.

It's close to home for us.

I'm sure it's close to home for a lot of you.

Just I can't believe this keeps happening.

And there was something about it being somebody I've got a bit of a parasocial relationship with that she posts about her family and her life in the US that I just could not imagine.

Can you guys imagine?

This is why my ex-pat friends are planning to come home, the ones with kids, so many of them, because I'm hearing this from Americans all the time.

The weight that you carry when you drop your kids at school.

I mean, everyone carries a certain weight about a fear of if something's going to happen to their kid, but they've got imprinted in their mind all of this coverage and the reality that it happens so frequently.

There's a process in place.

Everything from thoughts and prayers to the active shooter, all the language the kids know they have to talk to the kids about it.

And they just say it weighs on you in a way that you don't even realize until you're out of there.

And the other, you know, data point on this one, which is nobody knows what to do with except the people who are using it as part of culture wars is that initially it was reported that the shooter was a 28 year old woman.

It's now being reported that they have male pronouns and that they identify as trans and no one really knows what to do with that except conservatives who are going to weaponize it.

I've seen a lot of horrible messages around that, of course, on Twitter.

One of the things I'd say about that is that how many school shootings did you say there had been so far this year?

89.

89 school shootings within three months, 89 different shooters, 89 different people with their different motivations, which I'm sure all have some things in common and some things not in common.

And there's no question that you have to obviously deeply investigate the motives of anything like this because the only way they're really going to stop is to figure out why beyond the access to guns people are doing this and it's become,

I was almost going to say a trend then because it is also true statistically that there are more school shootings than ever since the pandemic, that they're on the rise, that last year there were more than there have ever been before.

So I think, of course, we're interested in who the shooter is and this one, as you say, has a complexity around it because the gender of the shooter is unclear.

But really, that's not where we should all be looking when we're looking for motives for this.

89 shootings so far this year, that's mind boggling.

I think conservatives will do anything to look away from the common denominator, which is access to guns.

Hey ladies, you know how for a royal wedding you can go to the TAB and actually place a bet on the colour of the hat the queen would wear? Well, Jessie's wedding this week is kind of like the out louders royal wedding and I guess that would make Nia the queen.

So I think we've missed the opportunity here to be able to bet on what colour Mia would wear, which obviously Mia would wear all the colours, so maybe it would just have to be limited to like her shoes or her bag or something like that.

Anyway, as I'm sure you know, all of us can't wait to see your photos from Friday, so I hope it's a great day. Bye.

A plain colour background, an understated font, a brief but considered message and a request for privacy.

This is what we've come to expect from the celebrity divorce announcements, which keep on coming.

And just this week, Reese Witherspoon joined the movement and shared a statement announcing her separation from her second husband, Jim Toth.

They said, we have some personal news to share. It is with great deal of care and consideration that we have made the difficult decision to divorce.

We have enjoyed so many wonderful years together and are moving forward with deep love, kindness and mutual respect for everything we have created together.

Our biggest priority is our son and our entire family as we navigate this next chapter.

These matters are never easy and are extremely personal. We truly appreciate everyone's respect for our family's privacy at this time, Reese and Jim.

Now that's a structure that's pretty familiar to you, probably could have been spat out by chat GPT.

You have an opening statement announcing your divorce, a recognition of your years together, the prioritisation of your children, the privacy request and a sign off.

These are pretty wallpaper these days and they certainly follow a template.

But what if you're not famous? What do you do then?

There is become a trend that I would argue is required for normies, regular people to announce the ends of their relationships.

Here's a little video that was posted to Instagram, I believe, of someone you don't know. And this is what she said.

My partner and I recently made the very difficult decision to end our 12 year relationship and the only life we've ever known.

Our relationship was incredible. It was loving, supportive, respectful and we were a solid team that was building a beautiful and full life together.

But at some point we realised that we were holding each other back.

On my end, I was on a path to become the most authentic, genuine and pure version of myself that started with my career change from finance to fitness

and then blossomed into a full shift in how I want to live my life in an open, vulnerable, deep, loving and adventurous way.

And he's on his own epic growth journey too.

I love the background music. You can't say it obviously because this is a podcast.

But it starts with images and video of her crying and then happy times of them walking together in the street and sharing cocktails.

Holy, this all started with your mate, Gwyneth Paltrow. She and Chris Martin pioneered this different form of celebrity divorce.

Usually it was just left up to publicists to confirm it right when the gossip columns.

But they got in early. She said it was a year after that actually separated that they released this statement about their conscious uncoupling in 2014.

But what if you're a regular person, Claire, you're married. If you get divorced from your husband, what are you going to do?

As somebody who knows content, breakup content, that engagement, that TikToker who did that video, she knows.

It's going to get great because people who are in the throes of heartbreak are going to look at that and really highly engage.

It's also very gossipy.

Even if you don't know the person, you're like, but why? Like when she was like, I was on my own growth journey and I wanted to be the best, most authentic version of myself.

I'm like, what? So what? He didn't. He just wanted to sit at home in his truckies and therein lies the problem with all of these announcements.

They never tell you why. Not really. And they're never going to tell you why. So why are we so obsessed?

But I wish that they did all I want is an unfiltered divorce announcement.

I think these are useful though. In all seriousness, I think these are useful because I've separated from my husband before, soon after we got married.

And I just did it the old fashioned way because it was before social media and I just relied.

I called a couple of people, but I just relied on the old fashioned grapevine because, you know, bad news travels fast.

Did it ever get reported in the media?

No, I wasn't that much of a public. I was magazine editor, but I was, yeah.

Well, interestingly, my miscarriage did, which was only just a few weeks later.

That was reported yucky. Anyway, it's different now because before you were friends with who you were friends with.

But now the people who follow you on social media are the people you don't know or people that you might not be in close contact with.

Like it might be someone you're friends with, an old neighbor, someone you were in high school with.

And so what happens when, you know, they liked your wedding post, Claire? And then what happens when you kind of just turn up with your arm around a different guy?

Well, for me, I do feel like personally, if I have seen you get married and I've done a like, I've done a comment. Congratulations.

Very happy for you. I feel like I deserve an explanation.

There are several people on my Instagram. It appears that the marriage has broken up.

Actually, there's one of two theories. A, the marriage has broken up. B, their partner works for AZO and can't be on social media.

They're the only two options because the partner ain't appearing on Instagram.

Holly, have you ever gone looking for confirmation that someone has split up?

I don't believe you have to announce it.

When I think about my friends, my real life friends whose relationships and marriages are broken down, they still do it the old fashioned way.

That's still how you do it.

You tell people when your friend tells you, you say, are you all right for me to tell other people if they asked me?

And they say yes or no. And then the news just travels.

I don't actually know any real life friends of mine who've done like a big divorce announcement on Facebook or anything.

So I think that still is how it works. I think read between the lines.

What would you do?

I wouldn't do anything. I think read between the lines.

I think if somebody's partner suddenly disappears from their social media for a long time

and this person seems to be like posting about lots of other things and having a life in lots of other ways,

but they never mentioned their ex, just assume.

But then when they post a picture with them with a new partner, for example, are you just meant to carry on?

No, you look at the comments and you see what their friends have said.

Because if the friends say, love you guys, congrats, then you go, OK, I understand why Reese with a spoon has done this.

And I actually think it's a fascinating example of how media has changed.

Then instead of waiting for it to get leaked, she is getting ahead of it.

And it's also refusing to be shamed. I'm not ashamed. I'm just putting this fact out there.

Why would you be shamed?

Well, I can imagine that if...

It's very Catholic of you?

No, it is very Catholic of me, isn't it?

I'm more thinking of people who have had a very, like celebrities, a very high profile wedding.

And then people are very invested in that story.

I don't think anyone was invested in her and Jim, like most people didn't even know they were married.

Oh, I knew they were married.

He's a big deal agent in Hollywood.

He represents all the stars. It was like a massive Hollywood power wedding.

I've seen architectural digest in their home.

I remember their wedding pictures. They got drunk soon afterwards and she got arrested.

I could tell you much, much, much, much about them.

But I don't think that's true that they get out ahead of it.

I think that they've probably been separated for ages.

You want to control the timing of the information, no question.

And that's my question about real life people.

I know that they are real life people, but we all know breakups take a long time,

especially if you've been together a long time, like something's happened or not happened.

Very often it's not that someone's cheated. It's just an accumulation.

So Trini Woodall this week, right, has posted her partner Charles Sachi has not ever been on her social

and she refers to him obliquely as C or occasionally Charles.

And she doesn't speak about him much, but she'll talk about my partner or my man.

This week she was quiet on social media, posting a lot of content that wasn't, you know, live.

And then she posted new home, new life, new location, and everyone's like, ah, okay, you've moved.

Everyone has such a parasocial relationship with her, her followers.

She probably doesn't want to make an announcement, but she kind of has to.

Or you said to Holly that you wouldn't. I can't imagine that you wouldn't.

Why would I?

If you and Brent broke up, you'd have to.

I don't think you owe anyone anything, right? Like you owe your real friends.

Like if I broke up with Brent, I'd tell you guys.

Well, thanks.

But how would you talk about your life in terms of explaining why you moved

or referencing the kids weren't with me this weekend?

I think what this is my thing is that don't you just at some point,

that's what your content for want of a better word would morph into

and everybody just travels with it.

I don't think people need the static post with the letters on it

and they're like, this is my big reveal.

What you're not accounting for is what do you do with all the DMs?

All the DMs and the comments of people that say, hey, what's happening with Brent?

Well, I haven't seen him for a while.

Yeah.

Is everything okay?

But those people are just fishing for gossip.

And what do we do in real life with people who are fishing for gossip?

We give them the gossip.

No, we don't. We blank them.

I blank them all the time.

Like if I'm out for dinner with somebody and they start going like,

Oh, I've heard that such and such and blah, blah.

And I don't want to talk about it.

I'll just change the subject and that's what I'd do on social media as well.

If you want to make out loud part of your routine five days a week,

we release segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays just for Mamma Mia subscribers.

To get full access,

follow the link in the show notes and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

At the other end of the relationship spectrum

and in anticipation of Friday when Mamma Mia outlouse official wedding of 2023.

It's happening.

Don't want our guys will be live streaming for subscribers only.

That's a joke.

That's actually a joke.

The legal purpose is that's a joke.

We bring you the most embarrassing wedding vows on the internet.

A lot of people are sharing and finger wagging about these vows

that this American guy called Michael Lantini made to his bride

and the mother of his two children that have found a big life.

Where else but on Tiktok.

Here is what Michael Lantini said in front of the celebrant who happened to be his mother.

Only two things are required to keep me happy.

Keep my belly full and my balls empty.

So you're amazing at half of it.

We really need to get you some cooking lessons.

Even when my belly isn't full,

there is no one I could ever love more in this lifetime

unless I actually get a chance to meet Margot Robbie.

Since the beginning I was always told life gets even better

when the kids fall asleep and you tell me to come to the bedroom.

Nothing's better than the sound of gagging and headboard slamming.

Michael.

P.S. since you're so good at making decisions like Mary and me,

you can choose whether tonight's going to end with being a toaster strudel or a twinkie.

What is a toaster strudel or a twinkie?

I don't know.

I was going to Google and then I was like, no, don't do it.

I loved the voice you heard going, Michael.

That was his mama.

Who was the celebrant?

As you said.

So the response to these vows,

the most common one has just been a single emoji, red flag.

Lots of people are just posting red flag, red flag, red flag, red flag.

To me, the fact that he talks about sex and cooking lessons

and Margot Robbie and his vows while in hers,

because I watched hers too, because I was invested,

the first thing she says is when I first met you,

I didn't think I was good enough for you.

And all you're doing is screaming at the screen.

You are good enough for him.

You are too good.

That's insightful too.

That's also a red flag.

Her vows.

And she said, I know I'm no model and I can't call for all this stuff.

But the first thing I thought when I watched these vows

is that these vows were not for her.

They were for his friends.

They were for the audience.

They were like, if I'm going to say some nice,

lovey-dovey things,

I've also got to throw in some things for the boys.

That was very much my vibe.

And I know people can say whatever they want in their wedding vows

and that weddings are a performance.

But this is gross.

But to my two married friends, is it as awful as it looks?

So it's gone completely, absolutely viral everywhere.

And it becomes the thing where I'm not sure how it was originally posted,

whether it was the photographer posted or the videographer posted it.

Videographer posting it.

And I think they were a bit horrified.

And then the thing is that people then stitch it

and share their opinion about it.

And you cannot control,

I think TikTok more than any other platform,

you cannot control how viral something goes

and whose hands it ends up in.

But that's just the internet, isn't it?

I think at least on Instagram,

you feel like you're sharing it to your network.

On TikTok, who knows who you're sharing it to?

I'm torn about this because on the one hand,

it is absolutely disgusting.

And there is something viscerally sad

about looking at that woman

and seeing how she has put on a wedding dress

and she has turned up,

she is the mother of his two children

and she has wanted to marry him

and declare her love for him in front of everyone they know.

And then he has made her the butt of a joke.

There's that.

And now she's a butt of the whole world's joke.

On the other hand,

I'm a little bit uncomfortable

with us being offended on behalf of other women.

She's laughing throughout it, right?

Which we all laugh.

She was covering her face.

I don't think that's indicative of the fact

that she was fine with it.

We all laugh when we're uncomfortable.

So there's that.

But I guess my question is,

if she genuinely thought that was funny

and she genuinely thought

that's what our relationship is.

I would say this is a woman

who has been negged so much by this man,

who brought up another woman in their wedding vows.

And how she's...

Well, it wasn't Margot Robbie.

How much she's caught it.

Is that okay?

No, but I mean, it wasn't like your cousin Sandra.

That would have been worse.

Jesus.

The bar is low.

The bar is very low.

I think that there was so much revealing in that

in terms of how he sees the purpose of his wife.

And it was about how he felt.

It was about, I love you a lot.

And it's my belly and it's my balls

and it's the sound that I love.

I mean, Jesus.

And you get to choose which of these sexual acts

I perform on you tonight.

And their kids were there also, as well as his mother.

You've got to wonder if that's what he says at the wedding.

What does he say not at the wedding?

Do couples usually okay their vows?

Like Claire and Rory for listeners who aren't in the family,

got married a month ago.

And you wrote your own vows

because everybody does these days.

I can't remember the last time I went to a wedding

when the vows were just your standard.

I don't think I did, but that's showing my age

because that was like 20 something years ago.

So did you know what he was going to say

and he knew what you were going to say?

Because the other thing I felt really bad for about this woman,

although I agree with you, Claire,

I don't think we should necessarily be offended on behalf of her,

is she went after him and she had this kind of look on her face

that was a bit like, oh, his were all a big joke

and now mine are like, oh, you're my person.

I love you so much.

And anyway, so back to the question,

did you know what he was going to say

and did he know what you were going to say?

No, and the idea is,

and I'm sure most people do this,

the celebrant read both of ours and gave us feedback.

Okay. So she, her job was to tell us if the tone was different, if one person was going

funny and one person was going serious and to edit it for length and that sort of thing.

And it was a little bit funny because she tried to edit for a reason.

And then he just, he was like, you can't edit my words of love.

But I think that role is actually really important because I don't know why for some

reason I look at this guy and he's an absolute pig, I wouldn't marry him.

I think that goes without saying, but I'm also not marrying him.

She is marrying him.

And when you see something like that, I guess you think it's a really weird situation

being in front of everyone you know.

And sometimes you misread the room and you think, oh, I thought this was for the boys.

I thought I was doing this for the boys and like, I don't think he is embarrassed.

But what I mean is I wonder if this video has been taken out of the context it was intended

to be in, which was, which was his family and friends.

Who knows.

Still humiliated her and objectified her and degraded her and sexualized her.

And that's not what any bride wants.

I have a question though about writing your own vows.

It feels to me like vows have now become this wedding speeches.

Like it used to be that you would say all those things in the speeches,

but now the bride and groom have to essentially do it twice.

Yes.

And that's why we did like a joint speech that was mostly just thank you and then did a song.

Because you felt that we'd said the bits to each other.

But interestingly, when it comes to wedding vows, so there was this other video that went viral

on TikTok a few weeks ago and it was an influencer who I won't name, but her husband on their wedding

day gave a speech that was a little bit what people's vows have become.

It was kind of him saying how much he loved her.

And I saw this clip of him delivering this speech and he is sobbing.

And it was the most beautiful 30 seconds and I got a pang of did Rory cry that much?

Why didn't Rory say those exact words about me?

And so I was like, oh, I feel a bit uncomfortable about that, which I have thoughts on

sharing all the things from your wedding and I don't know, deciding what's personal and what's

not. But anyway, I think I feel a bit funny about seeing the most personal thing someone's

ever going to say about you on the internet.

You know, there are two schools of thought about this, that a wedding is not really about you

to because you two know how you feel about each other.

It's about declaring to everyone else how you feel about each other.

There's a performative element.

Yes, but should you be performing to people you don't even know?

Well, exactly. And also, that might depend on the couple and the situation and all those things.

My favorite part of weddings are the speeches, like I love it.

And I love getting those insights into people's relationships and all that stuff.

But I, presumably, if I'm in the room, I know you at least to a point.

So it's interesting, but do you want the entire world to know?

Yeah, I don't know about the toaster and the twinkie.

Yeah, that might be an in-joke.

But when I saw this husband's speech and he's sobbing and talking about his wife and then

you see her reaction, she's crying.

And I thought, what a beautiful wedding.

What a beautiful moment.

Then the internet, because everybody's got a lot of time on their hands.

I don't know who did this, found out that what he had said, his words,

were actually a poem from the internet.

And it wasn't original.

The way he said it sounded like it was original.

He got torn apart.

It was reported on in mainstream Australian media.

I felt so uncomfortable about that.

But I guess that's kind of the risk of us turning weddings into not just an event for

your family and friends, but turning it into a content moment.

Is that you lose some of the special beauty of that?

Like if those words meant something to her, then who cares if it wasn't original?

Yeah, a lot of pressure on people who aren't content creators like we are.

Like to have to write it.

All the people Google best man's speech, best wedding vows.

Jesse crowd sourced what readings should be done at her wedding.

Like not everybody can find the words for the thing that they want to say without help.

And that's fine, right?

Because we all have our strengths.

This guy, I would love to know whether this guy now that this has gone TikTok viral,

is he like, oh, or is he modified?

And is she modified or does she think it's funny?

Because that's really what matters here.

I mean, everything that he says there is definitely a red flag, is definitely a sign of toxic masculinity,

is definitely a sign of all the patriarchy bullshit that marriage is supposed to be about.

Keep my tummy full, my balls empty and all that awfulness.

But if they found it hilarious and touching and true to who they are, is it any of our business?

I have just one recommendation.

I think it's one that we all share.

Succession is back.

Succession is back.

It's the final season, season four.

Episode one, the monsters dropped.

Outstanding on just so many levels, it's hard to even discuss.

Oh, succession, if you're not aware, it's like a family drama, generational media company,

a bit Murdoch's.

It's just glorious.

There's a patriarch called Logan and his three children, Shiv, Roman and Kendall.

And it's just a circus.

People are calling it the best TV show that's ever been written.

That's just me.

It's one of those shows.

I read this great article after I watched the first episode on Monday night.

And it said, sometimes watching succession, it feels quite highbrow.

And you feel like sometimes you're nodding along, even though you honestly understand 20% of it.

Yeah, I find it a bit highbrow.

I very rarely understand.

Like some of the deals that they're doing, I'm like, what?

What's a PJ?

Oh, it's a private jet.

But what I like about it is that it has white lotus vibes, which is that you can analyze it

to no end.

So you watch it and you go, oh, I think I picked up on some clever things there.

And then you read about it and everything from the blocking of the characters,

where they move, where they're situated.

Wardrobe.

Like everything means something and is really clever.

And the details working in media in that first episode,

they talk about trying to launch something called the hundred.

The concept is just genius and someone in media needs to do it.

Substack meets masterclass, meets the New Yorker, meets the economist.

It's just so clever.

And I thought it was so funny, the dynamics of the different siblings.

I have a weird soft spot for Kendall as the eldest child.

I can relate to a weird sense of responsibility.

I don't, people hate Kendall, but I love it.

You've got to get a baseball cap.

My question is, because I think succession is the show that's a cool club show, right?

Like you're in the cool club if you like succession and you know what it is.

If people are listening and they're like, I've never really got it.

Can I catch up?

Can I jump in at this point?

Is that possible?

Don't jump in at this point.

But you can always go back and start at the beginning.

Like you can.

It's not a show that's dated.

The whole thing's taken place over about two or three years is the whole timeline.

So you absolutely can go back and watch it at any time.

It's not going anywhere.

Sarah Snook is the Australian actress who plays Shiv Roy.

She's my shiv's brilliant.

Oh, it's a masterclass in acting, I tell you what.

It's on binge also.

Love it, love it, love it.

Watch the hell out of it.

Monday nights.

I would like to shout out to yesterday's subs episode because Claire Stevens does

a brilliant job of talking us through a celebrity feud that you may have missed.

And you'll be like, I don't care.

I don't care about silly celebrity feuds.

But this, I have a theory that celebrity stories in our modern age tell us a lot about

the way that we all communicate.

And basically every feud is about nothing.

Like, who follows who, who liked what, and a misplaced emoji and the world can end.

And so we talk through one that involves Hayley Bieber and Selena Gomez.

And I think you should listen to it because I thought it was very funny.

Thank you for listening to Mamma Mia Out Loud.

This episode is produced by Emma Gillespie with audio production by Lea Porges

and assistant production from Susanna Makin.

And we'll see you tomorrow.

Bye.

Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening.

If you love the show and want to support us as well,

subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do so.

There is a link in the episode description.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.