Mamamia Out Loud: The Controversial New Birthday Rule

You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.

Hello, all can hear that.

She's made a podcast debut.

She's made a podcast debut.

They're her little oinks.

Mamma Mia Out Loud!

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud,

what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the 5th of July.

I'm Mia Friedman and I'm a grandma.

I'm Claire Stevens and I'm the world's best auntie.

I'm Elfie Scott and I'm not related to this baby at all,

but I'm very happy for Claire and Mia and Jessie.

Yeah, because Claire and I are the main characters in this story.

We did a lot, we did a lot.

In case you missed it or are new to the show,

Mamma Mia Out Loud is usually hosted by me,

Holly Wainwright who is on holidays

and Jessie Stevens who is on maternity leave

because she just had a baby a couple of days ago.

For those Out Louders who are desperate to hear a full baby update from Jessie,

we know that baby talk is not for everybody

and some people just don't care.

So we're going to release a special bonus episode today

with the rest of that voice note from Jessie,

plus Claire and I, Claire of course being the auntie,

me being her own mother.

We're going to debrief on how we feel about the newest lazy girl

to join the family.

But we have a jam packed episode for you today,

so let's jump into it.

On the show today, everyone is talking about cricket

and if you don't really understand what's going on,

where with you.

So we're going to explain it to you in a way

that even I can understand.

Plus in every romantic relationship,

there is a business owner and a shift worker.

What's the difference and which one are you?

And birthday registries are a new thing,

so is it okay to send people a link

to the gift you want them to buy you?

We are divided, but first.

In case you missed it,

there is a CEO social media fight happening right now

that we honestly thought would go away,

but now we're being forced to address it.

The fight involves two of the richest men in the world,

the Facebook slash Metta founder Mark Zuckerberg

and Twitter's owner Elon Musk.

This week, Metta will be launching Threads,

which is a social media platform

that is going to compete with Twitter.

And Metta are already approaching prominent figures

like Oprah to jump ship.

That's what we need, another social media platform

where people can say what they think.

Don't have enough, don't have enough.

This is being pushed by Metta

as a stable alternative to Twitter

that isn't being run by an erratic figure like Musk

and isn't a complete bin fire.

The rumors about Threads

and some ridiculous back and forth on Twitter

have led to a genuine conversation

and God, I wish that I was joking

that Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg

are going to battle this out in a cage fight.

I can't. I thought this was a joke.

I'll fight you, mate.

You know who does cage fighting is like maths contestants?

They all do it at fight?

Like reality stars, not tech billionaires.

Forgive my ignorance of which there is going to be

a lot exposed on this podcast.

Just wait till we get to cricket.

But what actually happens in a cage fight?

Is it two people just fighting in a cage?

I believe they are referring to an MMA-style cage fight,

which is brutal.

Is it roof boxing? Do you have gloves on?

It's a little bit of both, so it's a boxing and a kicking.

But we should note that Zuckerberg

has actually won medals in the past

for competing in jujitsu matches.

Musk has done what we think is a single training session

with a professional fighter.

The thing I found interesting is that Elon Musk

is six foot two and weighs a lot.

He's a big guy.

I didn't realise he was so tall.

I thought he was actually quite a short man.

Mark Zuckerberg is five foot seven

and is crazily fit.

So the smart money is actually on Zuckerberg, apparently.

Interesting.

He's a pretty athletic little dude.

But we don't actually know where this fight will take place

or if, in fact, it will.

But that is the context as to why

two billionaires are talking about wrestling with one another.

There it is.

Why don't they just get their rulers out and be done with it?

More controversy in the second ashes test at Lord's.

Oh, now this is going to be interesting.

Johnny Bestow's worked out of his crease here.

This could well be out.

Cricket has absolutely dominated news headlines

on the world in the last couple of days.

When we were at the hospital waiting for Jesse to have a baby,

both of the grandfathers were watching the Cricket streaming live

on their phones on Sunday night.

And maybe you too have heard the Cricket fan in your life,

or maybe the Cricket fan is you.

A lot of women love Cricket.

Apparently even the Prime Minister has tweeted about it

and it has something to do with the ashes.

I don't really even know what the ashes are.

Are they the remains of an old deceased cricketer?

If you're wondering, like me, WTF is going on.

I can guarantee that there are many of us.

But fortunately, we have Mamma Mia Sports reporter Claire Stevens

on hand to explain what on earth is going on with the Cricket.

Claire, can you explain it to us in words that we could understand?

Yes. So something you may know about me.

I'm a journalist and a journalist does research to understand things.

They previously do not understand.

And I've had a very sexist morning because I've just called all the men in my life

and said, what be an ashes and what be happened?

And then I went up to the one British man in the office during a meeting.

He was in a meeting and I said, I'm so sorry, vibe on the ashes.

And he said, Australia, good Britain need to play dirtier.

So I was like, fun, fun, fun.

Was Australia playing dirty?

Is this like the sandpaper thing with the ball?

Absolutely not.

I've been charged with attempting to change the condition of the ball on myself.

I saw an opportunity to potentially use some tape,

get some granules from the patches on the wicket

and try to change the ball condition.

That's what I asked someone and they said, don't bring that up.

That's my last reference point for Cricket.

That's different.

That's the last news story.

So let's start from the beginning.

Please.

The ashes is between Australia and England.

Why is it called the ashes?

I don't know that.

But I do know it is always between Australia and England.

Are there actual ashes?

No, I don't think so.

In the producer booth, they are putting their thumbs up.

Apparently they're actual ashes of what we do not know.

Continue.

There are five test matches that can each go for days.

The recent controversy happened during the second test on day five.

Australia won the first test.

You've lost me already.

Yeah, well, we've won the second test.

Because it's like, think of it like a tennis game.

Like, you know how there are like five sets

and you've got to win three or whatever.

So Australia has now won two and this went down

on the day five of the second test.

I'll set the scene.

An English player named Johnny Bearstow is batting.

What do we know about Johnny?

The start of the ashes test at Lord's.

The prestige event at the home of Cricket

and a prime target for protesters.

The end of the first over balled by England.

Their chosen moment for disruption.

Evading security to reach the outfield

and spreading orange powder paint.

The hallmark of just stop oil.

England's Johnny Bearstow alerts the danger.

Carrying the defiant demonstrator back to the boundary rope.

Taking matters into his own hands.

Oh, I saw that was the protester in the nude.

Remember when there used to be streakers?

Yeah.

They were the good old days.

And I thought we all agreed that we just let the protesters protest.

But he clearly was like, I'm here to play the cricket.

He basically picked somebody up.

That's fucking awesome.

That's what we know about him.

I like his vibes.

So, Australia is bowling.

England's batting.

Johnny Bearstow batting for England.

Australia bowls and it goes through the wicket keeper.

So Bearstow doesn't kind of swing for it.

It goes straight to the wicket keeper.

And in Bearstow's mind, it's a dead ball.

It means that the wicket keeper has got the ball.

He's like, yep.

So you have like an over and that means you get six balls thrown at you to hit.

This was the sixth ball.

The wicket keepers caught it.

He's like, done dead ball.

Does Johnny get sent off at that point?

He's over is done.

What usually happens is players kind of start talking to each other.

We go to an ad break.

This is not like a significant moment in cricket.

But technically the umpire has to call it that the ball's dead or like over.

And the umpire had not announced the end of the over or declared play dead when Bearstow

walked out of the crease, which is his little kind of batting box.

And Australia's Alex Carey underarmed the ball against the wicket,

therefore getting Bearstow out.

Who's Alex Carey?

He was the wicket keeper.

So he was holding the ball.

Yes.

The crease is this little area marked out by chalk.

And it defines the area where the batsman operates,

and they cannot cross the crease if the ball is still in play.

So the debate comes from the fact that they're like,

Bearstow thought the ball wasn't in play, but no one had called it.

So it technically was still in play.

But from the English side, they're like,

it's a technicality.

You were being sneaky.

Oh, but it's totally within the rules of the game.

So it wasn't cheating.

It was just not very cricket.

Exactly.

So the thing is, though, that everybody who knows cricket

knows that if Australian captain Pat Cummins,

who I just think it's really important to this conversation

that we all remember how attractive he is,

he's such a beautiful man.

I've actually never seen him before.

Oh my gosh, Alfie, you need to Google him.

He is beautiful.

And therefore he can do no wrong in my eyes.

Let the record show.

Yes.

Pat Cummins would be a bad captain if he had not seen this opportunity

and facilitated this moment.

It would be like, you're not playing properly.

Justice for Pat.

Now, a lot of England supporters are saying

that what Australia did wasn't in the spirit of the game.

Yes, it was technically within the rules,

but it wasn't in the spirit.

OK.

So that sounds like a loser's argument.

Exactly.

But the English side have said they wouldn't have let Bestow be out.

They're like, we would have called the batsman back

and they wouldn't have wanted to win that way

because they wanted to leave a certain legacy.

Now, my favorite part of all of this

is that British Prime Minister Richie Sunak has weighed in

saying Australia's actions weren't in the spirit of the game.

Downing Street said it was the Prime Minister's belief

that the Australian team had contravened the spirit of cricket

by stomping Bestow out when the England batsman

appeared to believe the ball was not in play.

And Albo said, fight me or bite me.

Oh, wow.

OK, so we've got a cage match with Richie and Albo too.

But don't worry, guys, Sunak has said he won't formally raise

the issue with Anthony Albanese.

And I want him to withdraw the British ambassador immediately.

I'm like, good, because you have countries to run.

Like, this is not that important.

This is a game with a ball and men wearing weird white outfits.

So the sense from people who know what they're talking about

is that Australia played fair, but we played a little bit dirty.

And the idea is for England, you can play dirty too.

This is all within the rules of the game.

Meanwhile, Australian players have been verbally abused

following Bestow's dismissal, and they were called cheats

and there were allegations they were physically contacted

by frustrated fans afterwards.

I mean, I look at all of this and think we wonder

why kids sports games get so out of control with parents

and all this.

When look at one of the most watched sports matches

and the ridiculous spectacle it has become.

Gen X Outletters might be able to cast their mind back to,

I think the 70s, no, it would have been the 80s,

where there was a very famous cricket game.

I think it was Australia Against New Zealand, I want to say.

It was the one where they wear the coloured costumes.

And Greg Chappell was the captain, I think.

And his brother was the bowler.

And it was the last ball of the last something of the end of the whatever.

And the other team could win if they hit a six or a four.

And so the captain Greg instructed his brother,

who I think was Ian Chappell, to bowl underarm.

An underarm ball.

I remember being a kid and just going, I don't understand.

If it wasn't against the rules, which it's technically not,

why did everyone just, because then the batsman threw his bat

and everyone left and it was drama for weeks.

And it's the same thing.

So it's like, it's not technically against the rules,

but it's not very nice because it meant that the guy had no chance

of getting a six, but that Australia did win.

But then if it's in the rules, how is it not in the spirit of the game?

Is the spirit not defined by the rules?

Cricket traditionally, right?

Especially in England and Australia is quite posh.

Like it's a bit of a posh sport, a bit like golf.

Like it's just not cricket.

It's not rugby league.

It's interesting that sports kind of fall into class categories.

And because it's posh, there seem to be all these unwritten rules.

Golf is exactly the same where it's like you are just so offended

by anyone who isn't playing in the spirit of the game.

Only if you lose.

And yes, only if you lose.

But men get so caught up in the fairness and the justice

and the opinion pieces that have been written about this moment.

It's just absolutely fascinating.

I will say the more you look at cricket, it is interesting.

Jesse and I did a canceled episode on the late Shane Warren.

And what a fun, great guy.

I tell you what, that episode was a lot better than the TV show.

So we will link to it in the show notes.

Our ladders, I hope that you are now somewhat enlightened.

And if anyone knows what the ashes are actually ashes of, let us know.

I dare you to have a conversation with someone in your life

using the information solely gleaned from this podcast.

Always at this one miles.

Great shot.

Oh, it's a big E.

Straight over the top.

The little man is at the big fella for six.

Mamma Mia, out loud!

Are you the business owner or the shift worker in a relationship?

There was an episode of the Imperfects podcast,

which we love here at Mamma Mia,

where one of the hosts, Hugh Van Kylenberg and his wife, Penny Moody,

had a very raw conversation about their relationship

and how at the start of their relationship,

before they even had kids,

Hugh had said to Penny,

I really want to be a stay at home dad at some stage

because Penny was very career focused.

He was less career focused.

When they actually had kids,

it happened to coincide with this podcast that he was doing,

Taking Off.

And the Resilience Project.

And the Resilience Project,

where he goes around Australia and talks to people about being more resilient.

Without sort of ever discussing it,

and then they had a second child and then a third,

they fell into really traditional roles,

where Penny was at home with the kids and doing all of that,

and he was working.

So when they were talking about it,

this idea of one person sort of coming in and out

and the other person having the vast share,

even though on paper you said you were going to do it equally,

one of Hugh's regular co-hosts on the show is his brother, Josh,

who's also got little kids and who experienced a similar thing with his partner

when they had their little child, Orgy.

And here's the analogy that he used about the difference between

being the person who's got the vast majority of the responsibility

and the one that sort of dips in and out.

Yeah, I do do a lot of things,

but I also realise that a lot of the things I'm doing

are kind of like shift work as opposed to running a business.

And shift work can be hard and it can be very tiring

and there's nothing easy about shift work, but you switch off

and it doesn't carry on to the next thing.

And then I go off to work, so some maternity leave at the moment,

so she's there all the time.

And I started to realise, I don't know certain things about Orgy's routine,

about when he's supposed to have bottles

and if we're moving on to a different type of food now,

I didn't know there was a thing that happened with Charlie's childcare

and I was like, I actually don't know what our plan is for a three-year-old

kinder and four-year-old kinder and so if knew everything

and had it all figured out and had been doing all that thinking.

And it became really clear to me the amount of stuff

that even though I'm doing a lot, that a lot of the jobs I take on

are in and out shift work as opposed to great analogy.

That is a really good analogy.

Claire, you were the one that wanted to talk about this today.

What do you think?

I'm obsessed with this conversation.

I haven't stopped thinking about it.

It was an uncomfortable conversation to listen to,

I think because I hate thinking about this stuff.

I hate thinking about the load of a household and household tasks.

I wish it would just sort itself out

and you didn't have to arbitrarily do anything about it.

But in the episode, Penny talks about reading a book called Fair Play

by Eve Roddsky and how she purchased this Fair Play deck.

And it's a set of cards that helps you divide up the mental load.

So there'll be a card for grocery shopping, for cleaning, for school forms.

And the idea is you get these cards, there's a whole lot of cards

and you pick the ones that apply to you, there might be certain things that don't.

Like doing a lawn, I don't have a lawn.

And if you get that card, you hold the entire mental load of that job.

I assume you could do this in a share household as well if you've got flatmates

but this is particularly looking at couples

and even more so, I suppose, couples with kids.

Although every household has a lot of mental load.

And if you're not familiar with the term mental load, who even are you?

But it's the invisible stuff.

It's the thinking, oh, it's such and such as birthday

and when are the kids immunisations due and what night do the bins go out

and all of those things that often usually fall to the woman.

Yes. And so the idea of playing this card game,

which does not sound fun at all, but Hugh and Penny went out for dinner

and divided these cards up and it's that nobody is holding the mental load of everything

and then assigning jobs out, you completely own it.

So it is not that Hugh has school forms, for example,

and then Penny nags him about it, he has the school forms.

And if school forms don't get signed, that's on Hugh.

And one of the things that I thought was most interesting is that the rules of this

is that you can't split jobs, which sounds counterintuitive, right?

Because if you go cleaning or shopping, that's a big job.

But as soon as you split it, it then becomes, well, who's doing more?

But if you've just got the whole job, well, then if something's not clean, it's on you.

And then if we run out of milk, it's on me.

It's very clear because I think one of the most toxic thing in any relationship

where you live together is when one person starts to feel resentful,

that they're doing more than the other and that just becomes corrosive

more than anything else, I think.

And what they pointed out, one, they pointed out there is a lot of privilege to this

in that there are single parents who actually don't have anybody to divide the load up.

They also acknowledge that in their case, there are things they can outsource.

People can't always outsource things.

And I have some tension around this because I 100% want to do it with my partner.

I think it is absolutely genius to do it in any relationship.

But I have had friends say to me, friends who might have had kids in the last few years

and they're seeing how this whole mental load thing goes.

They've given me the advice and especially Jesse, the advice going into having a baby,

do not go into having a family with the expectation that it will be fair

because you will only be disappointed.

Do you agree with that at all though?

I don't.

The only reason I think that's interesting is because I remember a conversation on Out Loud

from some point last year about whether you're a giver, a taker or a matcher.

Basically, who are you in relationships?

And you guys made the point that in order for a relationship to be successful,

you both have to be givers.

You can't be matches.

It can't be that I will only...

What's a matcher again?

So it meant that I will only do something for you if I think that you would reciprocate it.

So you have to give sort of unconditionally.

You both have to give unconditionally for things to work.

Oh, that's hard.

I know.

A lot of people aren't naturally like that, right?

So you kind of do have to give them the boot a little bit.

So I looked at this and thought,

is it that you're doing everything on the condition of everything being fair

and is fairness an unrealistic goal?

Alfie, I need your idealism.

Yeah, actually, I am going to be idealistic about this.

Yes, 50-50 should always be the goal.

And I am very adamant about this.

The mental load is the only thing really in my relationship that causes fights

and blowout arguments.

I am a very tidy person.

I do not like dust accumulating in my house.

I do not like a lot of mess in my house.

And Evan does not appreciate that nearly as much as I do, although he is fine.

But I just think that it's something you have to strive for.

And it's the burden a lot of the time for heterosexual women in relationships with men

that you have to constantly try and pick them up to your standards.

And I find that so frustrating.

It makes me want to rally against the patriarchy.

But I think it's something that you always have to strive for

because I don't want to carry on those kind of like traditional roles.

I think that it's really unfair for women.

The reason I don't want to ever do this card game

and please God do not let my partner be listening

is because it would expose how little mental load I carry at home

because he would have all the cards and I would have none.

I'd like it on the record though.

You are very much the exception to the rule.

Oh yeah, I know that.

I've got a couple of other friends who are like me.

I've found them.

But yes, I know that I am.

And it actually causes tension in our relationship, Elfie, too.

I have to say the other way.

And I assume in relationships between two women

and perhaps relationships between two men as well,

there will always be a disparity, right?

There will always be someone,

often it's the person who's the best at it.

Like it'll be the person who's either the most organized

or who has the highest standards.

So I listened to what you were saying just then, Elfie.

And I said, but that's not fair to expect your partner

to carry the mental load of a standard

that doesn't belong to him, that's much higher than his.

Like he would be happy with no dust, right?

If people were sick from the dust, like I'm not talking about,

he would be happy if the toilet was never flushed

or that there was rotting food around.

That's different.

But if it's on the edges of how neat do you want things to be

or what's your level of tidy,

I don't think it's fair to expect someone else

to carry the same mental load as you if yours is higher.

But I know that's exactly the same thing

that causes huge tension in our house.

Probably the only example I can see in my own life

of a truly equal relationship

or something that feels closer to this

is looking at Holly and Brent.

Like I think Holly-

If she was here, she would.

She's the only person I know that it is equal.

She refers to him as a dozebund.

What's a dozebund?

He does all the things.

He does, but also it's not completely equal

because there have been times

when Brent's done a lot more than Holly

because Holly's been a bigger breadwinner than Brent

and she wouldn't mind me saying that

because she's written about it.

But she's very much the same as you, Elphie

and she's a good role model for you

because she's executed it, right?

So there have been times when Brent's done more

and they've found their balance with it.

Whereas this is like the conversation

that Holly and I had with Jesse

about are you a tag team or a three-legged race person?

And Holly's very much you're in the three-legged race.

So once the baby comes, you do everything together.

You shouldn't divide and conquer ever.

Whereas I'm, you divide and conquer, right?

If you're the breastfeeding parent, for example,

or if you're the stay-at-home parent,

you do carry more of that mental load

and physical load too

because you're physically there.

So maybe that's why the cards are good,

so that you say,

well, if I do this, this and this with the kids,

you have to be responsible for all the cleaning

and all the shopping, which are big tasks

to balance it out.

I think this conversation between Hugh and Penny,

they both acknowledge that the problem is the patriarchy.

It is not any individual.

The thing that struck me...

But what does that even mean?

Like, we throw that word around.

Like, what does that even mean?

Oh, it's patriarchy.

It's the much traditions and it's the feelings

that are imbued in you from childhood

that like men don't have to say,

clean up after dinner.

It's all the tiny things that accumulate over time, right?

And the thing I noticed is that even listening to them

split all these duties

and really try to reset their lives

so that it is a far more equal relationship.

And it sounds like they're really getting somewhere,

even with Hugh compromising with work

and that kind of thing.

I don't have close to me in my life

any role modeling to show me how this works.

Holly.

But I'm not in Holly's house.

She won't let me.

Like, I can't come and watch.

We need a live stream.

I know.

We really do because I look at my upbringing

and my mum still to this day,

all the groceries, all the cleaning,

all the laundry, including my dad's washing.

And to me, absolutely absurd.

Why is my mum doing a grown man's laundry?

And I want to live a life where I challenge all those things

and I have these cards out

and I'm able to divide it all up fairly.

But I almost cannot picture what a life like that looks like

and I really, really want to be able to.

I think I did have more of that role modeling growing up.

I mean, my dad's career always took priority

and my mum scaled back her career

so that because he had to be away a lot,

he had to travel a lot

and it just wouldn't have been possible.

And he had the potential to earn more income.

But at home, there were lots of things he did.

My household is incredibly traditional as well.

My mum is the homemaker.

She's responsible for the household.

My dad is responsible for working.

And I agree.

I think it's really hard to try and find an appropriate role model.

But I also think it's really hard

when you're in a relationship, Claire,

and you're trying to break out of that mould.

I don't know how you do it.

Like, I think that the card game is a fantastic alternative,

but I would love to hear from people about suggestions

of how you actually reach equality.

I have a confession to make.

I still don't know what night is bin night.

I don't know either.

And in the house we lived at before,

we'd lived there for, I don't know, five, six years, maybe.

It wasn't until COVID

that I had to find out where the bins were kept.

Outlad us.

Tell us if you got any hints.

Clearly, I've got no advice to offer at all.

We'll pop a link in the show notes to the Outladers group

and our Instagram page.

Mumma Mia Out Loud!

If you want to make Mum Mia Out Loud

part of your routine five days a week,

we release segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays

just for Mum Mia subscribers.

To get full access,

follow the link in the show notes

and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

I want a party with roomfuls of laughter.

Ten thousand tons of ice cream.

When asking the simple question,

what would you like for your birthday?

What response do you expect?

Usually you'd hear no gifts necessary

or your presence is my present.

Especially for non-significant birthdays,

not the big ones.

But there is a new trend

that I would really like to talk about today,

which is birthday registries.

Now, in the modern age,

a registry isn't just limited to one store,

like a wedding registry used to be.

You could set up an Amazon wish list.

You could DIY and make up your own gift list

and then share it around,

attach it to the event invite.

It's up to you.

So are people doing that now?

Like come to my birthday party.

It's a dinner at this restaurant

or it's a party at my house.

Here's a link to my birthday gift registry.

Apparently this is a thing now.

For milestone birthdays

or just for any old birthday?

Any old birthday.

And I have one question for you both.

Is it okay to tell someone

exactly what to buy for your birthday?

I say yes.

I say, we kind of do it now, family now.

Mum will say,

what do you want for your birthday?

And I say, I want this.

And that is because there is no one

so terrible at gifts as my mum.

One year she bought Jesse a blender for Christmas.

And Jesse was like, what the hell is this?

What's wrong with a blender?

It was a weird gift.

She was like 16.

Some people buy bad gifts

and I think in this cost of living crisis

we ain't got time for wasting money.

Even for our wedding,

I did a wishing well.

Best thing I've ever done.

I don't want the guilt that comes

with someone buying you a gift

that you didn't want

makes me want to vomit.

It's stress.

It's admin.

Because do you re-gift it?

Can you take it back?

Couldn't you flog it on eBay?

Exactly.

I don't want to do any of those things.

And then I've got some weird contraptions

sitting in my house

that I never asked for.

I do have to say

I hate registries of any kind.

But the reason I hate registries

is because I never notice that there is one

when I get the invitation.

And then it is an hour before I have to go

and I check the address

and I see there is a registry

and obviously I don't buy anything.

And then I go on there

and everyone's already bought all the things.

Except for like the $15,000 gift

that nobody bought

because they're not a bloody idiot.

So I don't like registries

but I do like someone

being very direct with what they want

and my favorite thing

is when someone wants money.

Really?

Oh really?

And who in your life

just says give me $50?

My brothers do it.

I just want money.

Do they specify how much money?

No, they'll just say money

but you kind of know what the vibe is.

And then the best thing

is my bank details

and I go I can do this

from the couch.

I'll give you $100.

This is absurd.

I hate to sound like

the English cricket team right now

but this is not in the spirit of the game.

Like gift-giving

is not about somebody

just deciding what they want.

That is not part of it.

It is 50% me deciding

what I would like to give you

being thoughtful

and then it is 50%

you either receiving it

with joy or lying to me.

And misinterpreting it wildly.

I think my problem is

I come from a family

of terrible gift-givers.

So I've never been

pleasantly surprised by a gift.

Perhaps if I was more surrounded

by people who are good gift-givers

I would be more inclined

to enjoy that.

I have to say,

Mia Friedman,

you're a great gift-giver.

I'm the worst gift-giver.

No, you're not

because you're not like

here's a gift it's Tuesday

because those people stress me out.

People who just do a lot of gifts.

Here's a gift for a significant event

that I've seriously thought about.

Claire, I think you're confusing me

with someone else.

Can we talk about a gift that

Mia has given you?

For my wedding,

Mia got an artist

to do a sketch of my dog

and it was the most beautiful thing

and it is hung in my home

next to my dog

and he loves it

and I have never seen something

that I went,

I wouldn't have asked for that

but it is all I've ever wanted.

That was the high point

of my gift-giving

across my life

because I also did it the same

for Jessie and Lucas.

It was very easy

to do both of those things at once.

That is wildly out of character for me.

So I was going to say

the reason I love this idea

of gift-giving for registries

is that I have a really hard time

with birthdays

because I find that

specificity of it too hard

so I am more a person

that will find something on a Tuesday

and give it to someone

and will not even know

when their birthday is

even though they've been

my friend for 25 years.

Because I find the,

oh God, it's Tuesday,

it's Paula's birthday,

what will I find for Paula

and then I'm seeing Paula tonight

and then I just get something terrible

and we're all embarrassed.

So I have to say as someone

who is useless at gifts I would love

to just be sent a link,

would make me so happy.

And I go one step further

as a gift-taker

on my birthday,

I just buy it for myself

and then tell my parents

to transfer me the money.

That's not gift-giving.

I'm just asking them for money.

And then I just send them a photo

of whatever it is that I've bought for myself.

Oh my God, that would not go down

in my social circle.

It's so good because I also don't like

people to buy me gifts

that I don't want.

I'm with you, Claire,

I find being given gifts

very stressful

because it's never something

I would have bought for myself

because I will always have bought

the thing for myself that I want.

And so then there'll always

usually be something wrong with it

and then I never feel like

I can be grateful enough.

You don't know how to react.

No.

There's no proper way to react

but then-

Healthy looks horrible.

I do like-

I'm not angry right now.

I almost think

giving gifts

is less about the person receiving

and more about the person giving.

Like I get more out of giving a gift.

Do we still have to be giving gifts

for just regular birthdays?

I understand a milestone birthday

but if it's just like

your mate's birthday

and you're going out to dinner,

do you still like have to give them a gift really?

Just a little something.

Why not?

It's too stressful.

I had a recommendation before we go

and it is to follow someone

on Instagram

who I have discovered.

Melissa Pateris

is a woman who made a video

and out loud

or actually sent it to me,

DM'd it to me.

She's-

has done this very instructive video

about how to fold a fitted sheet

and look,

I know that a podcast

isn't a visual medium

and you can't see it

but I just wanted to play it for you

so that you can get

a little bit of a vibe

for Melissa Pateris

and why I've become obsessed with her.

Now I know a lot of you

are still struggling with a fitted sheet

so I'm going to show you

the fastest and easiest way

to fold a fitted sheet.

Now just think of the sheet

as TikTok.

The top two corners,

they're the lesbians

and the bottom corners,

they're the straight married ladies.

All you're going to do

is let the algorithm

shove the straight ladies

into the lesbians.

Now the truth is

the straight ladies

aren't going to know

how or why they ended up there

but one thing's for sure

they're not leaving.

So that's kind of the vibe

of the video.

I've never felt so sane.

That is my absolute experience

of TikTok as a straight married lady.

I am with the lesbians.

I don't hate it.

I'm not leaving.

I don't know if they care

if I'm there or not

but it was such a great way

to remember how to fold a fitted sheet

because I've watched many videos

like that

and I've never been able

to remember the technique before.

She is obviously American

and in 2020

she started making these videos

during lockdown

and they just took off

and she did an interview recently

and she said before I knew it

I was the laundry lesbian

and she even met her fiance

via TikTok

who's probably a straight married lady.

If you search Melissa Pateras

P-A-E-T-E-R-A-S

but we'll put a link in the show notes

I highly recommend.

If you're looking for something else

to listen to

yesterday

we spoke about our true feelings

about work.

It was a throw down wasn't it Elfie?

Yeah we got to tell a little bit of a fight

for the first time.

Wasn't awkward at all.

I facilitated an argument

between Elfie and me

which is

a debate, a respectful disagreement.

Yeah I like watching other people fight.

So they had a really meaningful discussion

which included

whether there's a generational divide

when it comes to attitudes about work

and we also discussed

hustle culture.

It was a great discussion

a link to that episode

will be in the show notes.

That is by special request

because Elfie and I touched on it last week

I think in best and worst

and I said my worst of the week

was hearing how much Elfie

didn't like work

made me feel really sad

and weird

because I love work so much

and a lot about loudest said

we'd really like you guys to explore that

a little bit more

because some of them said

I felt really seen by Elfie

and some of them said

I felt really seen by me

because they love work

and so we just wanted to

get into the nitty gritty of it

and also is it awkward having

a conversation when I'm technically Elfie's boss?

Have you seen the poll in the out loudest group?

No.

Do you want to guess which way it goes?

Oh I bet they're not on my side.

It's overwhelmingly Elfie.

It is wild how much of a winner I am.

It's like 90% Elfie.

I'm clearly a freak in this conversation.

Out loud as you can listen right now

we'll put a link in the show notes.

Thank you for listening to Australia's

number one news and pop culture show.

This episode was produced by

Emmeline Gazillas

and Susanna Macon with audio production

by Leah Porges.

Thank you Elfie for filling in for Holly

while she's been in Borneo

with the orangutans.

She'll be back on Friday

but we'll be seeing you very soon.

Thank you so much guys.

It's been lovely.

Let's work for you.

And remember if you want to hear about

Jessie's baby news

we'll put a link in the show notes to that as well

but it will just come through your feed.

Just go listen to that.

Bye.

Shout out to any Mum Mia subscribers listening.

If you love the show and want to support us

subscribing to Mum Mia is the best way to do so.

There's a link in the episode description.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.