My First Million: Producer Ben Had A 90-Minute Phone Call With Mr. Beast, Hypnosis and More

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Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now.

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All right.

Back to the show.

Let's talk to Ben.

Ben had a big night.

Yeah.

So here's the, here's the setup.

Sean and I were chilling last night and we get a text from Ben and he says, hey, look who

just followed me.

And it was MrBeast.

So inside I was like, actually, even outside, I was like, my wife is Katie, I was like,

Katie, Katie, what's the, what's the start to happening?

And she was like, what?

And I was like, MrBeast, follow me.

What's a MrBeast?

I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like no days off on a road.

Let's travel never looking back.

All right.

Let's do this.

I've got a few things to talk about.

But first, Sean, let's talk to Ben.

Ben had a big night.

Yeah.

Why are we even talking?

We are now the sideshow.

We're the openers, actually, for the main event, Ben, Ben made event Wilson.

What's up, dude?

How are you feeling?

Well, let's, let's, let's not even tell them why we're just going to hype it up.

So here, here's the, here's the setup.

Sean and I were chilling last night and we get a text from Ben and he says, hey, look

who just followed me.

And it was MrBeast.

And I think it's, so for context, everyone, Ben is our producer here.

Ben has a podcast called how to take over the world.

It's, it's fairly popular, but growing quickly.

So your Twitter only has like a thousand or 2000 followers, right?

4,000.

4,000.

So we get this message and you said, hey, look who, look who just started following me.

And it was MrBeast.

And Sean and I made fun of you saying like, you know, that's nothing, no big deal.

And you sent a text message to us saying, uh, been on the phone with them for the past

hour and a half.

And we were like, wait, what?

And we don't really know.

We don't know anything else.

So yeah, of course there's going to be some stuff here that you can't talk about, but

what happened?

Yeah.

So, uh, I got back from Utah with my in-laws on Saturday.

So I was like feeling a little jet lag.

I was about to go to bed early, getting into bed with my wife.

And I looked down on my phone and I've got a notification.

Because MrBeast followed you.

And my first thought is like, oh yeah, MrBeast followed me like MrUnderscoreBeast, hey, give

me my social security number and I'll Venmo you $5,000.

So I literally, I saw it and I just put down my phone and, uh, like keep just like chatting

with my wife or whatever.

And then I pick it up five minutes later and I look at it and I go, I actually don't see

an underscore.

I don't, I don't see anything wrong with this.

And I click on it and it's verified and it's MrBeast.

And he just followed me.

And I was like, oh, that's weird.

Like you said, I only have 4,000 followers.

Like it's not, it's not a normal thing for like, I just, you know, pick up MrBeast.

And then I get a DM like two minutes later and, uh, he's like, hey, um, I listened to

your podcast.

I think it's cool.

I would love to chat sometime.

I don't want anything from you.

I just like want to learn.

And I was like, so I respond, I say, cool, yeah, let's, uh, talk anytime.

I'm free.

Like anytime you want to talk next week.

You sound like you're playing it cool, but inside what's going on?

Yeah.

So inside I was like, I actually, even outside I was like, and my wife is Katie, I was like,

Katie, Katie, Katie, when does this start to happening?

And she was like, what?

And I was like, MrBeast, following me.

She's like, what's a MrBeast?

And I was like, no, I got to call someone else.

That's what I texted you guys.

Cause like, she doesn't get it.

I need to talk to someone who gets it.

Katie, leave the room.

Like go get me a 12 year old stat who could have a discussion about this.

Katie, get your nephew on the line.

Yeah.

Uh, she's getting mad at me if I talk smack about her though.

Once I explained who he was, she was very, very excited.

She was, she was very, very excited.

So I, uh, I messaged him, yeah, and I'm like trying to play it cool, like, oh yeah, cool.

I could, I could make time.

No problem.

Um, and, uh, should I run or crawl to you?

And, uh, then he hits me with the Sean and he's like, uh, how about right now?

And I'm like sitting there, like in my boxers, in my bed, and I'm like, yep, I am 100% ready

to talk right now, uh, calm, call me.

And, uh, so he called me and apparently he does this, uh, at night he goes for walks

and he just calls people who he thinks are interesting and, uh, he tries to like download

their brains and learn anything that he can.

Uh, so, uh, we talked for like almost two and a half hours, uh, at the end and he's

a very cool dude and I learned a lot of cool stuff.

Well, well, like, yeah, I mean, what did you guys talk about?

Uh, we talked about a lot.

I like, it was, you know, it was just like a personal conversation.

So I'm not going to share everything that we talked about, but, um, oh, I mean, what,

for me, the, the coolest thing he did was, yeah, I've, I've known for a long time that

I need to take my podcast to YouTube and I got to ask him like, okay, so how should I

do this?

And he basically walked me through how he would do it, um, and how would he do it?

General game plan, uh, basically, uh, I was saying, you know, should I do segments, should

I do, uh, clips, should I, um, animate it, should I do me on the screen?

And what he said is do the full episodes, uh, you probably want to edit the scripts

a little bit so that it's not quite so casual, uh, because podcasts, like you listen to as

you're washing the dishes, like it doesn't matter that it's not gripping every second

of the, of the audio, but for YouTube, like it does need to be gripping every second,

like really needs to pull people second by second.

So he said, you need to edit your script a little bit for video, do animations, do it

highly produced and do the full episodes, like 45 minutes to an hour long.

That was the basic strategy.

And then he gave me some comps, some channels that I should make it similar to and, uh,

some homework to study up on.

What did he want to ask you, right?

Cause he called you.

So, um, you know, was he looking for something?

Was he just saying, Hey, tell me about, you know, I'm walking around.

I want to hear, I'm listening to your podcast and I decided I'd like you to say it out

loud to me live.

Go.

Like what, what was he, what was he interested in?

He was laying in bed and he said, Ben, tell me about my heroes and, uh, uh, no, he, yeah,

he, the funny thing was he didn't really know.

So we were just like talking about random stuff and he's like, I just want to learn

from you.

So I don't know what's up, man.

Like that's kind of how he went into it.

And I was like, I don't know what's up with you.

And, uh, so then we just kind of started chatting about random topics.

I asked him a lot of stuff.

I, he told me a lot of cool stuff that is not public information.

And, uh, and then at the end, he was asking me sort of about, um, like guru is honestly

very similar.

I told you about that finance guy who wants me to be his guru.

The background is that is like this person worth hundreds of millions of dollars, hollered

at Ben and said, just tell me what mistakes I'm going to make before I make them based

off of like historical people.

So Ben's podcast is he basically reads three books on Titans of industry and he breaks them

down into like a two or three hour podcast.

So, so by in theory, Ben's an expert, a three book expert on a lot of different people.

And, and, and if you're going to listen to one, go listen to Edison.

I think it's amazing.

Sam, what's your favorite one?

Edison to me is by far my favorite.

Uh, what's the richest Roth child?

I like the Roth child one, but I do think the Edison one is the, is the most impactful

because it like impact, we all know the outcome of Edison.

The Disney one people liked, um, I didn't like that as much because Disney like is not

as interesting to me, but, uh, that one's probably the most popular.

So interestingly I, for Disney, I almost did a follow up at the end of it because I listened

to Mr. Beast's interview on Joe Rogan and the stuff Mr. Beast was saying, I was like,

Oh, this person is so similar to Walt Disney that it's almost kind of spooky.

And maybe I should make a podcast just pointing out like a quick 10 minute one pointing out

the similarities between Walt Disney and Mr. Beast.

And when he got on the phone, he was like, I love the Walt Disney one that really resonated

with me.

And I was like, Oh, that doesn't surprise me.

This is why like you, you're, you're, you're pretty under monetized, but I think it's going

to catch up soon because I think what's going to happen.

And we said the six months ago, you make these comments like, Oh, you remind me of Walt Disney.

And so if I'm the person who like, if I'm Mr. Beast and you said to me, I go, really?

What, um, what mistake, like, what am I doing wrong?

Um, or like, uh, I'm thinking about doing X, Y and Z. Did Walt do this and like, did

it work?

It did not work.

Like you're this weird fortune teller type of person and that did, did he say something

like that to you?

Yeah, a little bit, um, a little bit.

He got into the like, well, what mistakes should I look out for?

Like what do you think that, um, like, what do you think I need to be wary of?

And like,

There's a Charlie Munger quote that's like, um, tell me where I'm going to die.

So I know I never go there.

Right.

Like I'll just make sure to go there.

It's kind of that.

But I'm sure there's also the upside, right?

Like it's not just what mistakes, but like, how did they make their greatness happen?

I think that's actually more of what people care about.

How do they make their greatness happen and then kind of draw parallels to my own life

of like, yeah, I am, I am just like Edison and the Rothschilds and Disney after all,

you know, uh, so similar, right?

I think, you know, like for Mr. Beast, I think the parallels are super easy with Walt Disney.

The thing, the only time that Walt Disney slowed down in his career was for like a

decade and it was because Walt loved to be working on a new thing, but a certain point

everyone convinced him like, Oh, actually you have this enormous multimillion dollar

animation studio now, you just need to be working on pumping out more full length animations.

And like when he did that, the whole thing kind of went downhill.

And then he goes crazy and he starts obsessing over little toy trains and like really going

off the rails, but those, those model trains then get bigger and bigger and becomes Disneyland.

And that is when he comes out of his funk and starts innovating again.

And so for Mr. Beast, it's just like the, don't let anyone convince you that you need

to be working on the reasonable thing.

Like you need to follow your unreasonable passions because some, somehow great things

are gonna come out of that.

So that's kind of the parallel.

For context, Walt Disney, I can't imagine he was more successful than Mr. Beast was

at Mr. Beast's age, but how big was his business when it, when you say things were going, were

being, becoming unsuccessful and he started focusing.

And what does focusing mean?

Like was he, was he the CEO of this company?

Um, Walt was essentially the CEO of Walt Disney Studios.

Yeah.

And this is basically in the forties and early fifties.

And it was, um, not huge, huge, but it was like hundreds to maybe just over a thousand

employees is how big Walt Disney Studios was.

Damn.

Well, Ben, I think this was cool as hell.

So happy for you that that happened.

These are cool moments along the way and sit kind of like signals that like you're on the

right track.

Uh, you know, Sam discovered you, I don't know when, uh, he came on a year ago.

It was a year ago.

And you did this.

Awesome.

There's somebody put a Twitter clip up.

You, you did some interview and you were like, you're like, I'm listening to my first

million.

And I hear Sam say, uh, man, I found this podcast.

I love it's called how to take over the world.

And I thought to myself, huh, there's another podcast called how to take over the world.

How cool is that?

And then you're like, Oh shit, he's talking about me, Ben Wilson.

He just said my name.

And then, you know, and then we basically, then I went down the rabbit hole after Sam

said it.

I was like, that sounds like really interesting.

I don't like to read biographies, but I think I'd like to listen to two hours and like,

that's just, you know, like one commute.

And I could like know the story of Edison.

I listened to the Edison one.

I got hooked.

I called you basically right after that.

I think I DM'd you and called you and I was like, Hey, let's partner.

Like, I think your thing is going to blow up.

Come work for us on our podcast.

And then we will help cross promote your podcast and like, let's take this to the next level.

And these are the little happenings that happen along the way.

And now, you know, Mr. Beast following, you know, Sam and my lead of recognizing your

talents for what they are.

And, um, and so, you know, honestly, like, I think you have a great thing going.

I'm really happy for you that, you know, this happened.

I think it's such a cool thing that happened.

I think what would be cool, and I think this might happen, Ben, here's how I'm going to

predict that's going to happen in the next month.

You're going to record an episode with Jimmy, Mr. Beast, you're going to record an episode

with Mr. Beast.

And I think you, if you, you should ask him, you should text him and be like, Hey, next

time you want to do a Sunday talk, can I just record it?

And we're going to talk about history and I'm going to make it an episode.

Do you care?

And every, it's going to be really cool because it's going to be like when Elon Musk went

on or when like, I forget it was like Elon Musk went on a couple, like, like, uh, he went

on a way, but why?

Hardcore history.

Hardcore history.

And it's like, dude, well, hardcore history is like bigger than you, Ben, but the, even

to the mainstream person, they were like, why is Elon Musk appearing on this nerdy niche

thing?

And it blows it up.

And that's what's going to happen.

It's going to be all the young people are going to be like, why is Mr. Beast on this

history thing?

What is going on?

Who is this?

And I think that's what's going to happen and your life is going to change.

I predict that's, that's, this is, this is how that story is going to play out.

You should definitely reach out with some idea.

You just need to, what's, what is the idea of how he could join you on the thing and

like, just get that one thing right and it'll be like an inflection point for, for you and

what you do.

Well, it should be, it should be why Mr. Beast is the new Walt Disney and you're going to

be like, and I'm going to tell you, I'm going to, Jimmy, uh, it seems Jimmy, right?

I'm going to tell you why, how you are just like Walt Disney, but I'm going to do it in

front of everyone.

And you can ask me questions and I'll explain to you why, uh, that's, that's why I think

you are just like him.

I think that'll be really cool.

I think what I would want to do is if he would let me like go down to North Carolina and like

interview his parents, interview his friends and like actually kind of make like a semi-documentary,

uh, audio documentary out of it, the making of Mr. Beast.

Uh, that would be sick.

And also you could, it could be like, this is the part one of maybe, of hopefully many

parts to come and I'm going to do this, you know, I can, I can kind of document your whole,

whole thing, how this turns out, but you're only 20, what is he, 25, 26 years old, something

like that.

It's like, you know, this is, this is part one.

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You know what's funny?

Part one.

I was talking to him and I was talking about like, just look at the smile on your face.

This is like, you know, wow, I have never seen this sort of deep happiness inside you.

This is amazing.

So I was talking about like, yeah, these guys call me up and think I'm their guru.

And so like, I might do like a consulting business off of it, like coaching type of

thing because there seems to be a market for that.

And he was like, oh yeah, I could see that.

That seems like something I would have gone for when I was younger.

And I was like, when you were younger, you're 24 years old.

How much time is there of when you were younger?

He's like, I used to feel just like that yesterday.

He's like, yeah, when I was younger, you're like, I have a child, seven years older than

you and I have a child.

All right.

I mean, that's funny.

That's awesome.

He just picked out you in a very nice way.

Yeah, he did.

He did you a favor.

He kind of like shit on you in the most gentle way possible in a way that's helpful to you.

Yes, exactly.

Well, congratulations.

That's cool.

Let's see what's going to happen.

Thanks guys.

All right.

Sean, I have what else we got?

I've got a few interesting things for you.

Let me tell you the first interesting thing that I'm doing in my life and kind of an interesting

business.

So I'm on this app called intro.

Are you using intro?

I don't use it.

No, but let's explain what it is.

It's basically like you call an expert for an hour and you pay for the time and you do

like a 15 or 30 minute call with them.

Yeah, that's all it is.

And that's not the point of the story.

But that's like, that's all it is.

It's just you pay money to talk to people, consulting and my buddy started it.

So he asked me to do it.

So I said, yeah, fine.

I'll sign up, whatever.

So when you and I were in Miami, this man and woman, this husband and wife came up to

me and like started talking to me about hypnotherapy because they knew that I was afraid to fly.

I've got like, I have a pretty hardcore claustrophobic thing.

I don't take subways that don't fly.

And I also have an addictive personality and I love sugar.

And so they like knew that and they were trying to pitch me and they on like using their services

and they kept emailing me and I just, I ignore everyone.

I don't reply to email really.

And eventually they book a intro call with me and I charge like, I put it at like two

grand an hour and they're like, Hey, you're never answering our emails.

And to be honest, when I met them, I did, you know, I, you, we do the nice thing when

we meet people.

Oh yeah, you know, this sounds great.

Like, you know, maybe I'll do it sometime.

You're just trying to be polite.

And I said, let's find a time.

Yeah.

Let's find a time and let's run away from potentially talking to each other.

Yeah.

And they booked a call with me and they go, you said you're going to do it.

We can't get you down.

So we're just going to pay you money right now and we're going to sit down and do it

hip.

Uh, a hip, uh, what's it called?

Hip?

What do you call it?

Hypnosis?

I guess a hypnosis session.

And I'm like, okay, I don't know what that, what that's about, but I do it and it kind

of has changed my like the game for me.

And so what?

Yes.

And I'll explain to you what, but, uh, I keep getting the words screwed up, hypnotherapy.

What is it called?

It's, uh, they, uh, this woman.

So she has an app.

Her name is grace.

I think get grace.com is like her app.

And then I don't know, I think like grace.tv, if you go to get grace.com, I'm sure you'll

see all about her.

Her name is grace.

And she told me, she's like, look, here's the deal, uh, a handful of executives pay

me a million dollars a year to do, to be their personal hypnotists.

I'm not going to pay you that or I'm not going to charge you that.

But if you like it, you have to tell people about it.

I said, whatever, fine, but I'm not paying you a million dollars.

She's like, that's fine, but you just get, let me give you five sessions.

And if it changes you, let me know if you want to talk about it.

And so I do this, do this thing.

It's totally worked.

So basically what it is, is you know how you do, uh, breath, work and meditation.

You just like kind of like sit down and get quiet and like you hear like a voice in your

head, like it's maybe it's your headphones.

It's Andy from headspace.

And he says like, all right, imagine like the sun is pouring on your mind or on your

brain and it's leaking down to your body and causing you to like relax and you're filling

with like relaxation, whatever.

You basically do that, but then she talks to you while you're in that state, you know,

that meditative state.

And she says things like, you know, imagine yourself on a beach in your safe space and

imagine like there's four year old you and you're explaining to him how you're trying

to overcome like, you know, the sugar addiction or whatever the thing you're trying to overcome.

And so, uh, and tell me what you say to that person.

So you're basically just like talk, you're getting spoken to and you're sometimes speaking

back in a meditative state, not like that interesting.

When I did it, I was like, Oh, like, I thought I was going to be in a trance, but for some

reason this has been wildly effective.

I think it could be placebo.

I think it could not be, but I don't care.

I haven't had sugar in like three weeks since I started this and I like am like kind of

an addict with that stuff.

And it's like to the point where I get sick if I think about it, it's been crazy fascinating

and she gets these, she gets all these people to pay her a million dollars a year.

Is that crazy?

Is that real though?

Who's paying her?

Did she, did she name names?

Who's paying her a million dollars a year?

That sounds a little far-fetched.

It does sound a bit far-fetched.

On her website is the founder of Clearco, Clearco, what are they called?

They're called like Clearbank or something.

Yeah.

They were.

That guy is one of her testimonials and then she told me other people who, uh, I actually

don't know if I'm allowed to say who those other people are.

Oh yeah.

That's great.

But do you, do you believe?

Her website?

Her website is gracesmithtv.com and on there you could see testimonials from people.

So could it, she be like kind of pulling my leg?

Yeah.

I mean, I didn't like look at her financials.

Yes.

100%.

But I don't know who, I mean, would someone lie about that?

She looks way different.

I, for some reason I imagine her to be like 70, but she's not.

She's very young.

So Grace Smith is the world's leading hypnotherapist.

It is a seven figure investment to work with Grace.

Uh, wow, that's, that's amazing.

You could work with her team for less or download the Grace app for free.

Okay.

Grace app for free.

That sounds promising.

All right.

So the, uh, the founder of clear bank.

Wow.

She's been on, uh, you know, whatever, something that looks like Jimmy Kimmel, but it's not.

It's called the Noite Quantenilo Gentili.

Oh, it's the Brazilian version.

It's the Brazilian version of Jimmy Kimmel.

Yeah.

So yours was around sugar or was around for your, for your flight?

We're going to, we're going to address the, the flying thing later, but I was going to

try and do sugar and, uh, it's actually been effective.

I'm, I'm shocked to say it's been effective.

That's kind of crazy.

Um, I like it and it makes me want to do it, which I think is probably, you know, pretty

common.

She told me to tell you that you can do it for free too.

If you want.

Oh, okay.

Great.

How do I get over my, what do I even have?

I don't have as many.

Yeah, the problem is, is that you're like emotionally healthy.

So I like, I don't know if you have issues, um, get over this happiness thing I got every

day.

Yeah.

So I don't know if like it's going to impact you.

I don't know.

Like if you have any diet or it could be food, it could be food related.

Like, you know, do I really want that cheese pizza?

Maybe I'll just never eat a cheese pizza again after I talked to grace.

That could be kind of nice.

It just kind of interesting, but it could be a thing where it's like, man, I got to

meet this woman every week and like, if I tell her that I ate sugar, I'm going to feel

like an idiot.

So I mean, that could be a, I don't know what it is, but it's kind of interesting.

Well, I started using that, uh, my body tutor after you had mentioned it on the podcast.

So like,

Did you really?

They definitely had a bump.

I signed up.

I paid for it.

So I was like, all right, let's try this out.

It's legit.

Right.

For multiple weeks.

It's super legit.

I mean, it's like, there's no like hocus pocus.

It's like, just straight up, here's a kind of like a coach who's a nutritionist who's

like going to really help you.

So I have this woman Haley helping me.

I don't know if she's the one same one you have.

I have Heather.

Okay.

So, um, I don't know about Heather, but Haley's amazing.

And so, uh, and a lot of it's just like the basic psychology of accountability, right?

Like I tell her I'm going to do something and I take a photo of every meal and I have

to think to myself, am I going to either a be a big fat liar and just not take a picture

of this like, you know, bag of cheez-its that I'm about to eat, or am I going to take a

picture of it and be like, yeah, I know I told you I was going to eat good and then

I just ate bad, even though clearly I could have just not ate, you know, not eaten bad.

And so it's helped so much to clear up, like, you know, just like, I don't know, let's

call it 30% or 40% of just random bullshit mistakes that I would have been making, plus

then there's the strategy, like, okay, she gave me this, I'll share an example, a specific

example.

So like she told me this thing, she goes, all right, uh, I snapped a picture of a meal

I ate.

She goes like, whoa, big meal.

And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

You know, whatever.

You know, her job is to kind of judge my meals, right?

Okay, fair.

And she's like, do me a favor.

Before you eat, I want you to just, on a scale of one to five, just take note, just like

at the beginning here, I'm not going to change anything in your diet, but just observe how

hungry were you when you started the meal?

Like if one is absolutely starving and five is absolutely stuffed, like, were you starving

when you, when you decided to eat, or were you like a two or a three on the hunger scale?

And then when you were done, were you like, um, so stuffed, I need a nap, or are you like,

you know, okay, I'm full.

I'm done.

And she's like, don't change anything.

Just like, give yourself a number before and after, after every meal.

So I started doing it and she's like, I was like, so what do I want?

Like, you know, started at two and ended at four.

She's like, no, you kind of want to start at a three and end at a three.

Like, you know, you basically want to be like, okay, it's been about three hours.

I think I'll like, I'll eat now.

I think I could eat.

I don't have to eat, but I could.

I could definitely eat right now.

Cause you're creating like patterns and being consistent and when I'm done eating, it's

like, I don't stop eating when I can't physically eat anymore.

I stopped eating because like, cool, like I've had enough of my meal and I can move

on.

I know that there's going to be more food in a couple of hours.

I don't need to like, you know, stuff myself to the brim here.

And so literally these like very small, like nuances.

So I had noticed, oh man, I really do tend to eat bad when I get to a one.

Cause then I'm just like, I'm redlining.

I gotta, I just like my decision making is very poor there.

So I'm like, normally if I like eat at a two and I finish at a three, I'm like very proud

of like those, all those meals.

So little things like that or, you know, certain like, like, Hey, give me a, I was like, you

know, give me a grocery list.

I'm going to Whole Foods, just give me a grocery list and I'm just going to buy only that shit.

So I only have that to eat at home.

Like, let's make this simple.

And so she gave me like an exact grocery list and I went and bought all that stuff.

And I was like, yeah, this is great.

So it's an amazing service.

Yeah.

My, my coach was like, anytime you want to snack, cause I would like snack a lot.

She was like, get a baked potato, put it, a paper towel over it and rinse the bake, get

it wet and just put it in the microwave for five minutes and just eat that.

And I started eating that.

I'm like, Oh, this is delicious.

This tastes wonderful.

And it's only 150 calories.

So like, I was like, what the fuck is a sweet potato?

I didn't know what a sweet potato was.

You know what I mean?

That's what you call your girlfriend when you're in high school.

Yeah.

It's like Dave Chappelle when they do switching spouses, when the black guy goes with the

white family and he goes, what the fuck is a parsnip?

Like he doesn't know what a parsnip is.

I was like, I don't know what a fucking sweet potato is.

Who's Renee Zell Wisher?

That's what he says.

Yeah.

That's anyway, it's been a good service.

I like my body tour.

It's good.

Me too.

Me too.

This is not an ad.

We're not paid to do it.

I genuinely like the product and it's helping me.

Wow.

Also, it's like $700 a month and I don't want to spend that anymore, but I said the only

way I'm quitting is it when I hit it.

$200, $250.

Something like that.

I do the thing where they call you every single day.

They call me every morning and I can't cheat because my wife and family knows that I'm

doing it and they're like, oh, you're going to tell Heather that you just ate that?

Well, that was the biggest thing.

I had to make a decision.

Am I, is this 100% honesty or is this 90% honesty or 60% honesty?

There are levels to this whole honesty thing and so I was like, all right, I decided if

I'm going to spend this money, I got to do 100% honesty.

I don't know this person.

I've never met this person.

She's going to be my little confidant of every single thing I eat in the exact thing.

Yeah, I did just put ranch on my potato.

That happened.

I can't explain it.

I just did it.

And so I'm like, I got to take the actual photo of the actual thing every single time

no matter what.

And I think that also, the commitment to actually doing it right is what actually makes you

get a good result from things.

Do you want me to keep going?

You want to do another one?

Do you want me to do another one?

Yeah, let's go.

All right.

Have you heard of Aviator Nation?

No.

What is it?

All right.

So this is this week's Billy of the Week.

So basically, have you heard of Tom's Shoes?

Remember Tom's Shoes?

Like, give one, buy one, give one type of thing, you know, like the hipster shoes.

Well, anyway, the guy who started it, his name was Blake.

By the way, you go to Africa.

Is everybody just running around to tell him shoes?

They better be at this point.

Yeah, at this point.

Yeah.

20 years, Tom.

Yeah.

That's for sure.

Tom's Shoes better be like the official shoe of like South Africa.

They got it.

Everyone should have a pair of Tom's Shoes.

So her name is Paige.

How do you say their last name?

Mykoski?

Blake?

Like that.

And so anyway, so her, this woman Paige and her brother is Blake, the guy started Tom's.

They got kind of popular and they got seed money because they were on like this thing

called, you probably knew all about this, The Amazing Race.

And so they like did that and got a little bit of seed money, whatever.

So he starts Tom's, the same day she starts a different company called Aviator Nation.

Now you are not in the target demographic of Aviator Nation.

It's mostly women, particularly like young, like high school and I think middle school

girls, like it's like a status symbol a little bit.

But basically she taught herself how to sew just like on YouTube and she started going

just like fairs, like Venice Beach flea markets and things like that.

And she would sew like these interesting stripes on like old vintage sweatshirts, like, you

know, nothing like breathtaking, but kind of cool.

And like she would be making like five or 10K a day every once in a while when she would

go and it was kind of working and she bootstrapped this business to the point of 16 years later,

she owns 100% of the company and 2020 it did 70 million in revenue, 2021, 110 million in

revenue.

And in 2022 it's going to double again.

So it's going to be north of 200 in revenue.

And last year she paid herself a $50 million dividend check and she's buying a lot of,

she's, but yeah, she's buying a lot of real estate with it.

And in this article I read Forbes was like, we estimated that she's worth around $350

million, but she said the number is at least double that.

And she recently acquired her ninth property, a $15 million lake side house in Austin and

she has other homes in Malibu, Venice Beach, Marina del Rey, in a Aspen ski chalet.

And she says that if, if she didn't subscribe to my first million, none of this would have

happened.

That is fucking crazy, dude.

Yeah.

She said she reads the milk road every day.

Yeah.

She subscribes and shares with friends like unbelievable.

Yeah.

What a sweetheart.

And have you, have you ever heard of this business?

I've never heard about this until Forbes did an article on it.

No.

And this, I'm, I don't know why, but I'm almost mad.

I don't even know what I'm mad at, but I'm just like this, because you go to the website,

you go to the website and this literally could be like someone's school project.

This could be like an Ali express demo site.

This could be, and I don't, I don't mean that to, to kind of shit on it, but I'm like, what

am I looking at?

It's basically like a shirt with four stripes on it.

It's like, you know, like a sweater with a lightning bolt.

It's like a dude wearing black shorts with a yellow stripe on the side.

And the short, oh, wow, the shorts are a hundred and sixty eight dollars.

Yeah.

So, and I forgot to add that.

That's like the shtick, which is it's like sweatpants are a hundred and sixty dollars.

So like the items of clothing are a luxury brand.

Yeah.

A little bit short of luxury, but like basically my friend Joe told me that his kid, he's

like kids wear it or they always like are wanting it because they'll see girls in school

wearing it.

And it's like a hundred and fifty dollars for a pair of sweatpants.

And so it's a little mystery box for me.

Like how do you do this?

How do you make something just like arbitrarily cool and in demand when it seems like there

are a trillion, you know, like alternatives to this?

And like I kind of get it when it's like established brands.

It's like, oh, yeah.

Well, you know, Louis Vuitton or whatever they have this like history of like being seen

as valuable, so therefore people will continue seeing it valuable.

This is just like some woman at her dining table was like, no, you know what, three stripes

on the hoodie, eight hundred dollars.

This plan will work.

And like somehow it did.

I don't explain this to me.

Well, so like makes my head hurt.

Listen, in that book, what's Peter Teal's book zero to one?

He talks about like he's like, there's like basically like these, I don't remember the

words he used, but he said like there's like a moat or like the truth.

Like you have to know something that no one else knows.

And basically you have to like figure out some a secret, some type of like technology that

others haven't figured out.

But he goes and Peter Teal is like this kind of like autistic-y like genius and he's like

the fifth one is branding, which I don't know anything about that.

I don't know about cool, but I know that that's like important.

That's kind of like what he says in the book.

He's like branding is like a moat, but like, you know, I don't know anything about moats.

I just do technology.

And I think that I've been chatting with a, remember how we had Sophia Amarosa on the on

the on the pod?

She's the one who started Nasty Gal and she's got all these other new projects going on.

And like a woman like her, just everything she does to me, it's just like cool.

It just looks.

Well, when I met, when we, when we met her, I was like, oh yeah, like whatever you are

selling on buying, like dig your vibe.

You seem awesome.

Like you're wearing like six rings right now.

I don't even know one.

I feel like I should own six now.

Like, I don't know what's happening, but like I am drawn to your lifestyle, your charisma,

your whatever.

Like the, you know, whatever, like, you know, that works for Nasty Gal.

I think it works for like goop and shit like that, where it's like, there's just something

about certain taste makers and trend setters where you're like, exactly.

All right.

I just want to like, I just want to drink whatever you're drinking.

Well, if you Google this woman page, she kind of has that vibe.

She's like the Jessica Simpson version of Nasty Gal, like maybe a little bit, like maybe

like a little bit less like edgy, but like still cool, you know, like, like just a little

bit more like, she always looks like she just got back from Coachella.

Yeah.

Oh, you just got back like, she's not going to do coke with you, but like, she'll have

like really good peach iced tea, but it's still like cool.

And like, you're always like, you're like, oh, what the, what the fuck is this hibiscus

stuff?

Like that type of vibe.

And anyway, I like her.

I love this woman page.

I have been reading all about her.

This company is really, really cool.

And you're in the, you're in the e-com space, a bunch of our friends are in the e-com space

and it's really hard right now and I read about this woman and I was like, oh, well, she sure

makes it look kind of easy.

It's kind of, I think that's why I have such a big reaction to it because I'm in e-com

and I'm just like, how, how the, oh, how do you do this?

You know, you ramped up to 200 million in sales with like the most competitive common

category, like shirts.

Oh no.

Yeah.

Okay.

What makes your shirts good?

They're just cool.

You know?

I'm like, yeah, yeah, but that doesn't count for a hundred million.

It's like actually it can if you really are cool enough and you build that grassroots thing.

What I want to learn, and I don't know if there's a way to even like figure out this

backstory without doing a bunch of work, but like there is something to like the foundation

of cool, right?

So like, how do you build a frame, a foundation or like a ladder that will, that will like,

you know, started, it sounds like she went to festivals and she's in the, for the first

store was in hate Ashbury and in San Francisco and it's like, with the right group of people,

you start getting going and then it kind of like spreads from there.

And I've never understood that when it comes to fashion.

I don't, I never understood.

But her brother has that too.

So if you Google Blake Myoski and you see like his house, like he's got like a vintage,

like a vintage like Toyota Land Cruiser truck with like a golden retriever and like a cool

like Pennington, Pendleton, whatever it's called, blanket, like laying over the hood

and like skis on top of the truck in front of their Malibu, like even though it's like,

you know, they're just wealthy.

So it's maybe it's easy to like have all that cool shit.

There is like a sense of style that he's just always had.

I think part of the cool thing is you just, you're just good looking, to be honest.

I think that's definitely like, I think Brad Pitt could wear anything and then I could

wear the same clothing.

It's just like, he just looks better.

He's just better looking.

I mean, of course, like he's cooler, but there is a few other things I think that are a little

bit more learnable and replicable when it comes to that, but these people definitely

have it.

It reminds me.

So yesterday I was talking to my mom and my mom's in town or my mom was like visiting

my house and I started doing this thing.

I did a podcast with my mom where I was like, I really want to hear my mom's story.

Like, because we all talk to our moms, but we don't like really talk.

It's like surface level stuff where it's all about the kid and, you know, moms are great

because they're like, you know, they're all about you.

They're like, how often do you really sit down and ask them questions about like them

and how they grew up and what made them them?

So I recorded this podcast with my mom because, you know, parents are getting older and I

just always wanted to have it.

It was amazing.

And one of the things she had told me, I don't know if I shared this story on the podcast

before, but she had told me like her trip to America, like how she got here.

And it wasn't hardship.

Like it wasn't hardship.

Like, oh my God, we were smuggled in in boats and like we had to like, you know, walk through

the Rio Grande with just our nose above the water.

Like it wasn't hard like that.

It was hard in the way that's like very relatable and that just unknown, but you just don't

know what you don't know.

And then you're in a situation and there's nobody to help you.

And so she talked about like, she got on the plane and like, she saw the seatbelt.

They're like, fashion seatbelt, ma'am.

And she's like, you know, like a plane seatbelt is not like any other seatbelt you've ever

seen.

And she's like, she was like, and she's just like clacking it together over and over again.

And it's like goes in and like, she was so happy.

Like, oh my God, like thing number one done, like I could do this.

And then she was like, all right, I'm flying to America.

Like I don't want to miss my stop because she'd only ever been on a train.

So she's like, wide awake for like 16 hours of a flight being like, when are they going

to announce like the America stop?

And I need to get off this, this plane.

And like, she didn't know that a plane just like goes to one place and that's it.

And there was like so many things.

Like when she got to the place that she got to JFK or something like that, she needed

to transfer to Pittsburgh.

She just didn't know.

She was like, I think I'm in America.

Like I didn't really know beyond that, like I have to get to Pittsburgh.

What is a Pittsburgh?

And she's like, she was like 20 at the time.

And like her 20 is like today's like seven year old, like because she had never been

to a restaurant.

She couldn't speak English.

She like, she told me once, she's like, yeah, right before I went to America.

She told me this yesterday.

She goes, I went as like our school thing, we went to a restaurant and I'd never eaten

outside of my house.

And so I was like, okay.

And she's like, there was like a fork and knife on the table and I didn't know, like

I knew what they were, but I didn't know how you hold them.

And she's like, I'm looking around and everybody's doing it so fast.

And I'm like, okay, what are they doing with their like, how do they pick this up like

this?

And she's like, I basically didn't eat.

I paid for the most expensive meal of my life and I didn't know how to get the food

into my mouth.

And I was so embarrassed to use my hands.

I just didn't do it.

And so I was hearing these stories and I was like, we all have these moments where like

the world seems too mysterious for us.

Like this is like, I don't know what this, this black box is like completely foreign

to me.

And I don't know how to operate it.

And like her trip to America had like five of these, like she was talking about like

when she finally got off the plane and the American guy had met her and it was like, okay,

you clearly look like completely panicked and he was like, are you, do you know, like

where you're going?

Do you have family to come pick you up?

And she's like, no, like, do you have somebody's phone number?

Was she able to college or something?

She was even younger.

She was actually, she was 17.

She started high school three days later in America when she came.

And so she, she came because if you come right before your 18th birthday, you're not an adult

yet.

So you have to do way less paperwork.

So her dad like put her on a plane at 17 was like, go, you're like, you're about to

turn 18 in three days.

Like you need to get over there.

And so her brother was here, but here, you know, like, she didn't know how to get to

his house.

She didn't know like all the steps it takes to get there.

So this guy was like, do you have her phone number, his phone number?

And she was like, yeah, yeah.

I have a phone number.

And he's like, okay, let's go to this pay phone.

And he's like, and she was like, I don't know what this is, like, I don't know what this

device is.

I don't have money.

And I don't know how to do this.

So he pay, he puts quarters in and he calls.

And then she's like, she talks to her brother and brother's like, well, you're here.

Like, I didn't even know you're coming like, okay, stay exactly where you are.

Don't move.

I will go to the airport and I'll find you at the, at the phone booth.

Do not move.

Like one step.

And she's like, okay.

And she's like, the guy who had helped me like set up the phone call, he had to go catch

his next flight.

She's speaking English.

She could like read English, but she couldn't speak it.

She had never practiced speaking.

So she like, you know, it was here and she's like, oh, shit.

And so she was like, I, she was like, I'll never forget.

She's like, I was trying to, like, I was done with the phone call, but I didn't understand

how to hang up the phone.

I couldn't, like, I couldn't figure out how to get the pay phone back.

Like what was the original starting point?

I didn't remember.

And she's like, I remember I just like left it hanging, like the cord hanging the phone

to swing.

I like walked away and I was so scared.

Like the police are going to get me for what I just did.

And she's like, everything was so new.

Like, you know, on the way home, we stopped at a 7-Eleven and I was like, this is a palace.

Like look at how much stuff is here.

Look how bright these lights are.

I've never seen lights so bright in my life.

And like, you know, every little thing was so amazing.

And so I say this for two reasons.

One is if you haven't done like the kind of like podcast with your mom, go do it.

It's amazing.

Even if you don't have a podcast, you don't need to publish it.

Well, few people are going to have it as good of a story as that.

I don't know, like I feel like everybody's got a story when you start to dig in.

And then for my mom, it was almost like she didn't think about this stuff.

Like it was only like halfway through when I got to like the interesting bit because

it was all like just so buried in her head.

You know, what does she remember from 40 years ago?

But then she did remember once I got like on the right trail.

But the other thing is like, when I hear this story about this woman who, you know, just

put stripes on a t-shirt and like grows it like crazy.

And I'm saying that kind of like, to me, it looks so simple, but obviously there's more

to it.

I just don't know what the more to it is.

And I'm sure there's people who listen to this podcast and they hear these things.

I hear us talk about many things.

And they're like, I feel like you guys say it like it's so obvious, but it's like completely

not obvious to me.

It's like, where do, how do I hang up the pay phone?

Like how do I connect the seat belt?

Like, I don't know.

That's okay.

Like there is that everybody's got that black box.

And then like later you look back and you laugh and you're like, I can't believe it.

You and I, you're, I don't, you're not an immigrant, but, but you and most all of my friends and

I think you as well, all of our friends are either immigrants or kids of immigrants.

I feel like I'm like the only like not, not one of those that I'm, I'm close with my,

my wife is that my family's that you're that and what you, what you notice talking to these

people and a lot of you and I are friends with a lot of immigrant entrepreneurs or children

of immigrant grants and their entrepreneurs and you, you like, I often wonder, I'm like,

how are these people succeeding when there's it's, they're coming from a place where things

were much harder.

You know, like I, I didn't learn how to, I didn't have to learn how to, you know, use

a pay phone.

I just knew.

And you hear the story about your mom and you're like, well, that's why they succeed

so well because well, she had to learn how to use a fork.

Like that's like, I imagine like pretty humiliating and you're frightened.

You get on a plane to like, you know, it sounds like to her, it'd be as, as if you sent me

to the moon.

Mars.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

You're like, what the hell?

Like I don't know.

I don't know anything.

And it's like, well, okay.

I like landed it.

I found my brother somehow.

Like what's the worst that could happen?

They're going to send me back to this place.

I mean, like, you know, it can't be that bad, failing, failing at least.

And so when you talk about people who are like, well, I don't know what to do.

It's like, yeah, but like, it's kind of straightforward.

You just can't really be afraid to do it because like the worst that's going to happen is not

that bad.

Like, you know what I mean?

Right.

If this woman from India can come knowing nothing and she ends with like this big family

and she's, your parents are pretty successful.

Like it can work out if you just kind of take a little bit of risk.

It's pretty inspiring.

Yeah.

I think that's where two common immigrant traits come from.

Number one, like a willingness to grind it out in a way that's like, nothing is beneath

me.

You know, like, okay.

Like she was like, you know, two weeks later, I had a job as a waitress.

Like the person who had never been to a restaurant now was hired as a waitress in America and

couldn't speak English.

And she's like, my brother was like, how the hell did you get a job?

And she's like, I don't know.

You said we needed a job.

And so like, I just kept going to different places every like hour.

I just went to a different place to interview and this one liked me and they just gave me

the job.

Okay, I have to go at like four in the morning before school and like help clean the stuff

and then I'm going to go at night and like, that's what I'll do.

And so you get this like grit side, but then you also get the like kind of like why are

immigrants so cheap because like they've operated with no safety net before.

And so now when they have some resources, they're like, don't squander them.

We remember what it was like to have no resources with no back, no net to catch you if you fall.

And so like, yeah, don't like spend too much, even once like a lot of immigrant parents end

up in America, like they end up getting rich, but they still live very cheaply.

And I think it's because like, if you've lived, it's like, you know, somebody who's like,

I don't know, they like grew up in the woods and it's like, oh, why do you sleep on the

floor still?

It's like, I just do.

Okay.

Like don't ask me too many questions.

It's like, I know I have a bed now, but like, I don't need, I don't need the bed.

I don't want to use that right now because I feel like, you know, anything could happen

right now.

And so a lot of my the same fear.

And a lot of my friends, so my mother-in-law's from Haiti and I would talk to her.

So she, did I tell you how she started this pillow business?

I don't know how big it is exactly, but I imagine mid six figures and she took, she

asked me to, to take, drive me two hours to the airport.

And I was like, why?

She's like, I want to ask you how Shopify works.

I think I want to create an online store where I sell these pillows and I'm like, all right,

whatever.

I'll explain to you how to do it.

But I, like people ask me this all the time and they never follow up and they never do

anything.

And so she calls me six weeks later.

She's like, all right, I got my first sale.

Now what?

And I was like, oh my God, and I was talking to her and the way that they would describe

it, you know, my in law, my in laws as well as my other, other immigrant friends.

It's kind of like what's interesting is when you take like these immigrants and you put

them in America where there's like a pretty strict rules and laws like in like mostly

the government can't take things from you and like your stuff is mostly protected.

It's like, well, this is easy.

This is not easy mode.

Like, like we all know the, we all know the rules and we know that people are mostly all

going to follow the rules.

Like this is easy.

This is just a board game.

Like you just got to play it.

And it's, so I'm always inspired hanging out with those types of people.

Yeah, for sure.

Me too.

You said something just now, which is like, I think is an important little thing, which

was I tell people to stuff all the time and like very few take action, you know, like

most people just don't do anything with this.

I've been kind of, I've been admiring, there's been a bunch of people who have built cool

shit for us that like, I just want to call out is kind of awesome and I don't know where

it leads and I like that they did it knowing not where it leads, but something good is

going to happen.

I'll give you, give you a couple of examples.

Somebody created this thing.

I don't know if you saw it.

They put it on product and it's like the MFM ideas system.

I wish I knew the link off top of my head, but if you go to product and you search my

first million, um, basically he went and indexed like, I don't know, 30 or 40% of all of the

different ideas we've said on this podcast, well, we're like, Oh, MailChimp, but for inside

your company, because you need to write internal newsletters, blah, blah, blah.

And so they'll take that idea.

He timestamped it.

And so you can go to the website and it'll be, you'll just be like, give me an idea and

it'll give you an idea.

And then it says, listen to it and you click it and it opens up and Spotify or whatever,

some player, like exactly where we talked about that idea.

And I was like, wow, this is so awesome for us, but also for anybody who's a fan of the

podcast, um, and immediately I was like drawn to this person and it's such a, it's such

a hack to stand out just by like doing a useful thing.

And there's so much energy that gets spent like reading books, listening to podcasts,

like ask, asking people for advice, you know, and it's like, dude, you know, instead spend

actually like a one third of the time and actually like build something or make something

that's like kind of interesting.

That will get you so much further.

There's another guy who built this thing called write like Sean.com.

Have you seen this?

That was really good.

It was great.

This guy created this thing.

He trained GPT three, like, uh, like the AI model or whatever to on a bunch of my Twitter

threads and he goes, Oh yeah, I trained this AI to write like you.

So watch, you can just type in any topic and it'll spit out a Twitter thread and I was

like, okay.

Yeah, I did it.

It was awesome.

It was great.

It's actually awesome.

This guy, someone put it in there.

He put it in, I'm going to pull this up pretty amazing how the, the language like it is,

it is like you, I put something in there and like the cadence sounded exactly like you.

So, uh, okay, so this person, uh, where's the one, somebody wrote how to pick up girls

or whatever.

Okay.

Somebody wrote how to be happy.

And then it goes, you don't find happiness.

You create it.

Most people go through life searching for happiness.

They think that when they find the right job, right relationship, right house, they'll finally

be happy.

But the truth is happiness comes within.

Here's how you create it yourself.

Number one, do something that makes you happy every day.

It doesn't have to be big.

It can be small.

Like, this is a fucking computer that's writing a very realistic, you know, looking thing.

Here's another one.

Um, why we don't do public math, right?

The, somebody's a fan of the podcast, he goes, we don't do public math.

Think about it.

When's the last time you did math in public?

I mean, really did math, multiplication, multiplication, not mental math, but using your

fingers, a calculator or a piece of paper, when's the last time you saw someone do math

in public?

It's almost like we're ashamed of it.

We don't want people to see us struggle at math.

We think they'll think we're stupid, but the truth is math is hard and it's normal to struggle

with it.

So let's start doing public math.

Like it, it like changes our whole perspective by the end.

Let's practice public math period together.

How does, how did, how did, how can I make one of those?

Cause I would like to do that for my stuff.

It just still write emails for me.

So what do you do?

Like tell GPT three to read all of your tweets and it gets to show you should just get this

guy.

So this guy, odd, odd little pickle is his name is his like Twitter handle.

I told him, because I put it in my newsletter.

I was like, check this out.

This is awesome.

And it like crashed his site and it ran up a thousand dollar bill before it crashed the

site.

He's like, ah, no, my side project.

I was like, dude, I'll like, I'll pay your bill.

Just let me own the thing and I'll pay your bill.

Like it's my, it's right.

Like Sean, I'll buy it off you and then you don't have to worry about this stuff.

And so I think it'd be cool to like, like, I love, uh, John Steinbeck.

Um, I've been reading it, you know, you, you don't even know who that is, do you?

Famous American author, whatever a classic American author, like, you know, like, he's

like from the crew that wrote like, uh, catch her in the ride, that type of crap.

I would love to like write my marketing emails like those guys.

And I think it'd be cool if I could, if I could figure out how to like teach GPT three.

But, um, you want to go to a different time in the background.

I don't know if you could hear it.

It's all right.

What topics you want to go to?

Um, well, there is a couple others on this, like GPT three thing.

Yeah.

Like, um, so basically that like this, the AI has gotten really, really good at really

specific things.

Like, I don't know.

Have you played with Dolly?

That's the other one.

That is the craziest shit on earth.

That is way crazier than GPT three.

Dolly.

What it is.

It's the picture version of this.

You just type in any concept.

It's like, um, Sam Parr surfing while smoking a cigarette and it'll generate like 12 pictures.

Like AI illustrates Sam Parr on a surfboard smoking a cigarette and it'll give you a

bunch of variations.

Dude, I told it to do wild shit.

I said, do real life grownup Cartman and Bart Simpson.

And it made a real life, like it looked like a photograph of what a grownup Cartman from

South Park, a cartoon looked like.

It was crazy.

It is so impressive.

It was crazy.

This is like the demo version.

It's not even the real version.

I'm going to start doing a thing.

Um, there's this company I want to invest in that does this with voices.

And so, uh, basically he sent me a clip of, um, of Gary V, reading the milk road.

So it was like, you know, the, it goes, good morning.

You know, it is like the Gary V voice.

It read the thing and it sounds exactly like Gary V. And then he's like, here's Jordan

Peterson doing it.

Here's Joe Rogan doing it.

Here's Gary V doing it.

And he's like, if you give me like 16 hours of like your podcast audio data, like I'll

just, I can make your voice like a synthetic voice.

So then you could like, you could just type something and, um, it'll do, it'll record

the audio for you the way you talk.

I was like, what in the world is going on?

So this stuff is so amazing to me.

It's really captured my fascination.

And it's just the beginning.

Like this is going to get so much better and has all kinds of crazy implications.

Like, Hey, you're not going to know what's real and what's fake, like cause fake and

real are going to be like indistinguishable, like a, like a deep fake video or like a photoshop

photo, but for everything, for voices, for videos, for drawings, for whatever, uh, Twitter

threads.

Like it's not unreasonable that like most of the content you read on the internet is

just going to be written by computers.

Dude, like you're going to go on Twitter is just going to be auto generated content

from brands and people that are, you know, just plugging it into the AI and AI is spitting

out good content for us all to consume.

Like we may not have Hollywood at some point, it'll just be like computers making movies

and the rest of us just like, you know, wall, what's that movie where they're like fat people

sitting in wheelchairs and just like sucking down slurpees and watching stuff.

It'll just be that cause it's like, oh, we don't need to do the work to make stuff anymore.

So the computers make awesome movies.

We just watch them.

Dude, let me, let me tell you a quick story as we kind of wrap up real quick about, you

know how like, you know, it's not for a little while, it's been not cool to live in a city

lately and it's been cool to live in like a less popular places like Portland, Austin,

that type of thing.

Last night I went to a wedding, I went, it was my wife's buddy's wedding.

So they weren't like, you know, my friend, they weren't like what I thought, like, you

know, our startup eating nerdy friends and I sat at this table and listened to my table.

I didn't know who any of these people were there.

We just started chit-chatting.

The person next to me started a business that had raised $30 million at a start.

And these, all these people are about 28 years old had raised like $30 million.

The person next to them had a company that in two years hired 300 people.

The person next to them had a startup that they sold for $140 million.

The person next to them had a VC fund that had a billion dollars raised and they, this

person graduated college in 09.

So however old you are, 33 with that.

And then the person next to them was a partner at one of the biggest management consulting

firms.

And so it's like mostly like, and then there's some poor like English teacher in the middle

who's just like, what am I, what is this?

Come on.

Come on.

Let me do it here.

Well, I'm the one doing real work out here.

So no one was douchey at all.

So the reason why I even knew that was because they like had seen Sarah post about me and

they're like, Oh, you do the podcast about startups and I was like, Oh yeah.

Okay.

So you must be in startups too.

Yeah.

I work at this company.

Oh, what do you do there?

Oh, I actually started it.

So like they're trying to, they're being cool about it.

So it was pretty inspiring to be around these people.

I'm used to like, you know, sometimes being like a big shot sometimes amongst my, my

like non entrepreneurial friend group.

And I go around these people and I'm like, Oh my God, like this is like incredibly motivating.

I actually think that there's a world where it's a little unhealthy because you're like,

you know, like this money shit doesn't actually matter that much, but it's so it's kind of

bullshit that I'm like comparing myself to others, but it's incredibly, incredibly motivating.

And that's something that I miss about San Francisco.

And we had that for a little while.

Yeah.

That is, that was the best part about San Francisco by far.

Like people will be like, how's San Francisco?

It's like, Oh, well, the city is basically Gotham city.

You know, it's cold.

It's not actually like warm California weather, you know, it's super expensive.

It's you know, all these things, but the upside is like, you know, if you want to hang out

with some of the most ambitious, interesting people who like look at the world a little

differently and are kind of crazy enough to go pursue it, you're just going to keep bumping

into them like everywhere you go, regardless of what you're doing.

And sure enough, your brain will start to change to be more like them.

Dude, what's funny is I feel like our friends weren't even ambitious.

Like, you know, like Jack Smith is not an ambitious person.

He just like works on interesting things and just so happens that they become huge money

making operations or like we have a few friends that are ambitious, but then we have a bunch

of friends.

It's just like, I don't think Jack, I think is more of an outlier.

Jack is more like just like curious and mischievous more than he is ambitious.

But I don't think most people are like Jack.

I think Jack's a bit of an outlier.

I don't consider myself to be ambitious.

Do you consider yourself to be ambitious?

You are ambitious.

Yes, you are.

A lot of our friends to me, I'm just like, we're just like doing interesting things

and it just so happens that the output is.

Yeah.

But yours is like, okay, Jack's is like, I like doing interesting things as in like

he'll build a ergonomic chair in his garage to like see what that's like.

Your version is like, I like just doing interesting things that are highly profitable.

And like, there's a caveat, there's like an important caveat to your like, you're not

like just reading novels from like, you know, 18th century, you're like, okay, how do I,

you know, spin up this thing that's going to get to six figures in revenue very quickly.

Right.

Like that's, that's your version of what's interesting.

It's what's interesting to you is kind of the, the hook, right?

So like what's interesting to people like, okay, Furkan, I would say is very ambitious.

He's not very money-minded, right?

Ambition is not money.

It's like, but he's like super interested in new tech.

And so, you know, our office would have like, oh, he, you know, here's why, why doesn't

the TV remote work?

Oh, sorry.

I changed the TV.

I got the chip out of the TV.

I put a Raspberry Pi in.

And it's like, why can't I use this beer tap?

Oh, cause I put a fucking like drone that floats above it and like, you know, what is this?

Where's my computer?

It's like, oh, I needed a place to put my 3d printer and like eight out of 10 of those

turned out to be just like, you know, money sucks.

Like there, there was no commercial value in the Raspberry Pi or the mini drones or

the 3d printing or any of that stuff.

It was just like the fifth one where he's like, yeah, I'm playing around with this like

crypto thing.

This thing called Ethereum just came out and it's like, just happened to be that that one

was like one that turned out to be extremely profitable and like, you know, change the

world in a bigger way.

But you know, the interest was in, let's say for him, tech or like our buddy Xavier's

is like, dude, how do I provide electricity to people in Africa who don't have it?

Right?

That's ambition in a different way.

Right.

And that was inspiring, right?

Like I was like, holy shit, you're the biggest solar provider in Africa.

And I guess what I mean is like in New York, I noticed that the ambition is like, let me

crawl up this ladder and climb to the top of the ladder because I want to be number

one.

And I'm going to kick other people off the ladder and make sure like stomp on their

faces.

I'm going up so they can't get as high as I am, whereas it seems that maybe I'm just

being like, just, I just think our shit don't stink, which is it's more like, let's create

new ladders.

You know what I mean?

Let's just make our own ladder.

New York.

It's like, here's the test of New York.

It's like, do you know which finger can take the least amount of pressure before it gives

up its grip?

It's like, yeah.

Step on the ring finger.

They're done.

Whereas in San Francisco, it's a little bit different.

In San Francisco, the virtue signaling is different.

What you get rewarded for is different.

You get rewarded for, I'm solving some big problem at scale, billion users, billion

dollar prize.

That's what you're going for.

And it's okay.

You're high status if you're broke, but going for a big, big prize.

Whereas in New York, you don't get high status for broke.

It's like, no.

In San Francisco, it's like the guy with the biggest ratio of wealth to poor looking is

like the winner.

You know, like you, you have to be like the most raggedy looking dude with the most amount

of money.

Yeah.

Make the most money and then give up all your possessions and live on the street.

Like that is the like peak, right?

That's like Jack.

Go look at Jack Dorsey.

He's like, okay, you build two multi-billion dollar companies, but then you grow a homeless

man beard and you like pretend you don't care about it.

You give all your money away and you wear a tie-dye T-shirt and like, you know, you carry

around a notebook and like that's, you know, while you walk barefoot.

It's like that, that's the highest status like person you can be in Silicon Valley.

What did you think of the Peter Lovell's podcast?

I thought it was dope.

Like, I think he's great.

I like him like, you know.

I always liked his content, but I like him.

I didn't know him.

And I like the way he thinks.

I like the way he acts.

I thought he was, I thought he was pretty honest.

Like he didn't come on here and try to perform.

And he got the vibe.

He got the, you know, I think he's a hit, he's a hit.

I like him.

There's a handful of people who we were friends with and who we've talked to publicly who

I think I would put in the category of like, oh, they've kind of figured it out.

And of course that they're flawed and they make mistakes and they're not always happy

and whatever, just like normal humans, but like in general, they've kind of got it figured

out.

I would say Darmesh is in that category where it's like, oh man, you've like, you have a

lot of the boxes checked of like, you seem happy.

You seem like you got a good family.

Your career is good.

Jack Smith, our good buddy is another one of those people.

He started a company that he sold for $800 million, but like he's not that like he doesn't

really care about that.

And he'll never tell you about it unless you ask about it, but he's happy and healthy.

And then this guy levels Peter Lovell's.

I would put him in the same category where it's like, you kind of like seem like you

know what you want and you stick with it and you have principles and you're, you're achieving

exactly your ideal life.

And that makes me happy.

By the way, you know, the, you know, the tell that I figured out, like the, what's the quickest

way for me to pick up on is that person like those people, like our, some of our favorite

people are like that.

I put Suley in that category.

I put Furkan in that category.

I put a bunch of Ramones in that category.

It's what percent of your like, kind of when you talk about yourself or what you're doing,

what percent, there's two tests.

One is what percent of a conversation do you talk about yourself versus your ask questions

or you're interested or curious about other things, other people, other things.

And then the second is when you talk about yourself, what percent is talking about the

past stuff you've done versus stuff you're interested in doing or the future.

And it sounds very simple, but I'll like, if you go to their bios, very few of them even

have their last company in their bio, whereas if you go to my bio, it's like sold Bebo,

right?

Like number one, the first thing I write in there is like sold the thing, you know, like

I've done something cool.

Please ask me about it.

I love to tell you about my wins and like, you're fairly, you're, you're fairly close

to being in that category of like, I feel like you know what you want.

And even if you don't get what you want, you're still mostly happy.

Yeah.

And the thing that's helped me is like, uh, I've, I'm getting away from doing that.

I'm getting away from basically trying to like seek validation in some way.

And then the second, like that's, that's why we talk about our past, right?

To like kind of like give ourselves some status or get some validation from others.

It's like, you know, here's my background.

Here's what I've done.

Therefore, please give me some respect and, and whatever else.

And once, once I picked up that these other guys do that very differently, I started to

shed that it's like somebody will bring something up in conversation.

I think of an anecdote where I can tell them a really cool story of how I've done that.

And I'm just like, well, that doesn't actually add to the conversation.

They're already convinced.

Why do I need to do that?

I don't need to, I don't need to perform here.

It's fine.

And so I like let that go.

And that thought never used to be let go.

It always used to be something I would immediately jump in at any opportunity to kind of like,

you know, hey, can you validate my parking here?

Hey, here's my ticket stub.

Can you please punch a hold on it?

And like, that's how I felt like I was doing stuff.

And then I noticed these guys don't do that.

And I talked to, I remember asking Suley ago.

I feel like you never, I kind of have to brag for you when we meet people because like,

dude, they don't even know who you are.

They don't know you're like, how much of a hitter you are.

And you want to look, and Sean wants to look cooler that he's associated with Suley and

bring it.

Yeah.

Why did I bring this guy to this meeting?

Yeah.

Because this guy's fucking awesome.

And like, hold on.

You didn't do it.

You didn't brag.

Let me brag.

Yeah.

And, and I was like, I was like, why do you do that?

I was like, I was like, I also feel like you don't even talk about or think about like,

all the stuff you've done in the past.

And like, he was like, he's like, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know, I don't really

do, I don't really feel the need to, he's like, you know, I heard Kobe Bryant give a

talk once and he's like, it was after Kobe retired and he was talking about like the

new shit he was into.

He's like, cause I don't know if you know, Kobe started like making little mini movies

and like, he like got really into storytelling and movies and like that was like what he

wanted to do, right?

Great stories.

Great movies and stuff.

Yeah.

And so he was like creating, he created like a production company and Kobe had said something

that was like, I need my next 20 years to make my last 20 years like a footnote.

Like the next 20 years need to be the best thing I've ever done.

And this is coming from one of the greatest hall of fame basketball players.

Whereas if you see what most players do when they retire, they go put on a suit, they put

on 30 pounds and then they go sit at an ESPN desk and they talk about how the players these

days don't get it back in my day.

We used to be so great.

And like they, and they never like move on to the next great adventure and they don't,

they think it's, it's implicit that the best work of their life was behind them.

And that's why they gained the weight.

That's why they aren't as happy.

That's why they're nostalgic for the good old days.

Whereas somebody who looks at it like, oh, this next chapter is my best chapter.

And that's a different, that person's going to like go through life a little differently.

And so he told me, he's like, when I heard that, I thought the same thing like, oh yeah,

great.

My next company needs to make my last company be this like little afterthought, like we'll

put it in the appendix of like stuff I'm done.

And if I think about it that way, then I won't put so much emphasis on it.

I won't use it as my crutch as like a way to get kind of respect or attention or anything

like that.

I'm going to only make my new thing the way I do it.

And I really respected that.

I was like, that's great.

Have you heard the song, a game it feels good to be a gangster?

Of course.

Basically.

And one of the lines he says, real gangsters don't flex nuts because they know they got

them.

And that's, that's what we're talking about here.

You don't flex nuts because you know you got them.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

I think that's the episode.

Let's not talk about it.

Yeah.

I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like no days off on a road.

Let's travel, never looking back.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.