My First Million: Noah Kagan: Notes From Meeting Peter Thiel and Books that Helped Him Make Millions

All right.

Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now.

HubSpot just launched a Shark Tank rewatch podcast called Another Bite.

Every week, the hosts relive the latest and greatest pitches from Shark Tank, from Squatty

Potty to the Mench on a Bench to Ring Doorbell.

And they break down why these pitches were winners or losers.

And each company's go-to-market strategy, branding, pricing, valuation, everything.

Basically all the things you want to know about how to survive the tank and scale your

company on your own.

If you want to give it a listen, you can find Another Bite on whatever podcast app you listen

to, like Apple or Spotify or whatever you're using right now.

All right.

Back to the show.

Same with crypto.

When I was buying in 2015, people were like, I don't fully get it.

But there's something just interesting.

Same with when I joined Facebook.

When I joined Facebook, people were like, you're going to go work at a social network?

Okay.

Same.

You know, it seems weird, but there's just a lot of these really interesting use cases

that I'm very tempted and I'm very excited about.

How are you, Sam?

How are you today?

All right.

We're live now.

I'm good.

What are you doing?

Well, I just got back from Albuquerque.

I was hanging out with my family.

And then I just got home and there's like back-to-back meetings before we go to the

trail of lights tonight in Austin.

I know.

I know.

Neville and Neil, I've heard all about you guys are going to have some exciting times

tonight.

You weren't working today like a normal schedule?

I actually work really best in airplanes.

So I got up, worked in the airplane, landed, and then just been kind of back-to-back meetings

now until 6.30.

Do you enjoy having a normal schedule now?

I had some trauma, you know, by the way.

Like Silicon Valley tech worker trauma is like, my boss didn't give me a 20% raise.

It was a 10% raise and I am traumatized.

Like when I worked at Intel, all I did was meetings and it was like, and I was like,

this is the worst thing ever.

And now I'm, I'm in all I do is meetings.

Well, you know, I will say, I will say though, today I was in some meetings and I was interacting

and I was like, man, I love you people.

There's some meetings where they suck and you have to figure out how to get rid of them

or change the meeting.

And there's some where it's like, wow, we're business forward.

Like there's things that are happening that are making shit happen in the business.

So Noah, you know, Kagan's here, founder of this company called AppSumo, which we'll talk

about in a second.

But you basically like you, you kind of, I don't know, do you say you stepped away?

You weren't like actively running the company day to day for like a couple of years.

Now you're the CEO again.

I, so I was active for a long time.

Now I'm not active.

It's amazing.

It's the best.

I don't know.

I don't think I have it in me to, at least not right now, to go back and do that.

Do you think that you have it in you?

It's hard.

It's, I mean, I was not working, I mean, it sounds such like an ass stuff, but like,

I wasn't really working.

I was doing podcasts, which isn't really working and I was making a lot of money.

And now I'm working.

I actually think I'll make the least I've made this year in the past.

What does that mean?

You're making a lot of money from what?

Well, Amon, so we hired this guy to run absuma.com.

He was running it.

And I was like, Oh, well, let me make YouTube videos and I'll do podcasts and I'll like build

send Fox and experimental stuff.

And then I would get paid.

And then Amon wanted to step out and to be an advisor and I stepped in and now I'm having

to do all his work.

I will say, and then yeah, I think I'll make less money this year.

Two things with that.

One, sometimes when you criticize another, because I criticized Amon a lot, um, just

like, just like, you could be better.

You could be better.

Like why are you doing this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jewish mother like Noah.

Why not?

Yeah.

Your cousin, um, so you could have been like your brother.

He's a doctor and, uh, um, one under being in his shoes definitely makes me, uh, respect

him so much more, but just a lot, just a lot.

Like he's a very impressive guy.

Also get a deal with me.

But I'd say the second thing is that, um, the work now is harder.

It's hard, but it's much more rewarding.

And so I was even writing that down in my diary this morning.

I said, dear diary, hard work is rewarding.

Noah, you have the weirdest.

So like you talk about having a diary, you always talk about going to therapy, which

is no big deal.

These, none of these, these all these things are great, but you act like a tough guy sometimes.

And then you talk about like, uh, how you got to complain to your diary.

You kind of shock me.

I think, you know, I think of myself like a Chinese dish.

I'm like sweet and sour pork, you know, like you're not really supposed to have pork.

Is it you?

And then sometimes it's sweet and then sometimes you're like kind of sour.

It's just like, it's a, it's a mixed bag.

It's a variety.

It's, uh, entertaining.

You're, uh, since I've known you now for, I think like eight or nine years and you've

all, you're, you're, you're cagey with numbers.

So I don't want to push you if you don't want to be pushed.

Can you talk about how big you guys are now given?

I mean, in your YouTube video, I think you said a hundred million in revenue.

Yeah.

We're not going to hit it.

We actually missed our goal this year.

Um, it's going to be less than that.

Well, maybe you said 80 in another video, what you are, because someone doesn't want

to tell you how much they make is a cage.

Um, yes.

I don't think that's wrong though.

I don't like to, I don't talk about a lot of stuff either.

I say like round numbers sometimes or I'll just say, I don't want to talk about that.

All right.

How much did you sell the hustle for?

Let's try these.

Let's try KG numbers.

Um, 10s of millions of dollars.

Uh, yeah, I mean, how much do you make a year now working at HubSpot?

Well, I get paid, uh, I got, I get paid a whole lot of stock, but my base salary I think

is only $250,000 maybe only.

Well my stock is, is significant.

I will say this is, you know, in all these shows nowadays and crypto people, they always

like, this is not financial advice.

I'm going to give financial advice.

I buy a lot of HubSpot stock.

I think it's one of the most undervalued stocks on the market.

So, and by the way, I, when they bought us, I think it was, um, they were worth $17 billion

or $16 billion in late January around when they bought us.

I think today it's 40.

So yeah, it's going up a lot.

So, and, and that's why when people asked how much we sold for, I'm like, well, we

sold, I basically, I got 10s of millions in cash and then I also got HubSpot stock,

but it's already, it's, it's up significantly since we sold.

So, and I don't know like what price do you say and frankly, I don't know.

And I don't love exactly saying, what are we going to ask?

Who's wealthier?

You or Sean?

Oh, dude, I don't, I don't know.

I, I, here, I'll tell you this.

We did a podcast, we did a podcast recently and I basically said my goal was to make at

least $20 million by the age of 30.

And I did that.

Dude, good for you.

And that was the goal.

But you know, like I, I also don't, I own assets now in the, in some real estate and

I own HubSpot stock and Airbnb stock, but like you own AppSumo, which an $80 million

a year business, do you think you're worth $200 or $300 million?

I think AppSumo is worth somewhere between a quarter of a billion and a billion dollars.

Isn't that crazy?

Uh, yeah, I don't really look at that as part of my net worth.

I just look at my own, it's interesting, we've talked about this a little bit.

You like, I think there's Silicon Valley entrepreneurs that think about your valuation

of a company.

And then there's me and you who are normal people that are like, what's your profit?

What's your revenue?

All right.

You're worth a million.

Not like, oh, well, the multiple is this.

If they say multiple, they're Silicon Valley.

Well, uh, I mean, you guys would sell if you're, if you're, if you think you, if you said

that you're going to do in the range of 80 million in revenue, I mean, I don't know

how I would value that five times profits or five times that number, I guess, right?

I don't know, man.

It's a little surreal.

I, and I don't, I'm not sure how different my life would be.

My brother did ask me is like, if you were to sell, you know, how much would you sell

for?

And I was like, I don't know, like if it was a billion, that's like, and I think people

don't realize that.

Like when Mark Zuckerberg, I worked at Facebook and I, my, uh, Catherine's like, shut up,

talking about that.

But you got to give him credit, man.

He turned out a billion dollar offer at 24.

Yeah.

He's crazy.

Like dude, you took the first offers anyone offered you.

No, I didn't, but, but like, yeah, I was like eager.

I mean, I think I say that with love.

I say that with love, dude.

No, we, we, we had a few other ones, but it was a good one.

And I knew that hubs, I didn't know I was betting that HubSpot stock was a good buy.

And I think that I just like, I'm not in Zuck.

I can't imagine working, dude, he gets, do you think his life is enjoyable?

I can't imagine it's enjoyable.

No.

I mean, I guess he enjoys it, but I just think that that's hell to me.

That's why you used to have a virtual character enjoy it more for him.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I mean, like you and I have this buddy.

You remember that one time we were out to eat and you could say, isn't it?

I don't know.

You're, he's your friend.

So you could tell me if you want to say his name, but he was like, no, you're not growing

at three times a year.

What the fuck?

You're leaving so much on the table and you're like, dude, I just went mountain biking like

on a Tuesday and then on Wednesday, I like did this.

And then on Thursday, I did this.

We're going to make like 80 million in revenue this year and I own most of it.

I'm so happy.

And he was criticizing you as a friend and, uh, and I was like, no, is he, is he crazy?

Like you've got it.

This is perfect.

This is don't change.

This is perfect.

It's, um, I don't know.

I guess how you want to live, do you think that, I guess that changes over the years?

I mean, I think in your twenties, you're just like scrambling and wanting to, I know for

me, I wanted to prove myself.

I wanted to have status.

I wanted to have it.

And then as your thirties, you know, I'm still doing it.

What, um, no, I'm just like, uh, you know, you, you figure out more, what really gives

you fulfillment.

And I think everyone's got their own stuff.

I think figuring it out for yourself is a really tough thing.

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All right.

So when I started the hustle, I used to look at how many people had cold email in order

to buy ads in our email.

I would look at how many people I got on the phone and then I would look at how many people

followed up and how many people signed a contract and then how many people actually paid and

bought ads.

I thought I was a genius because I figured out very specifically how many people I had

to call to get X dollars and I was like, great, all I got to do is call this many people.

It made my life so much easier than just guessing.

Well, turns out this is a thing that has existed forever.

It's called a pipeline.

And if you do it well, you can predict how much money you're going to make every single

month and so you just kind of go out and get more salespeople or you go out and do more

cold calling or cold emailing or you create more content and get more leads, whatever.

When I was doing it, I was doing it by hand and that was a huge pain in the butt.

Turns out there's something that does this for you.

It's called HubSpot, the HubSpot CRM platform.

So with the CRM platform, it's pretty amazing.

You do a few things.

The first is forecasting so you can get a bird's eye view of your entire pipeline.

You can see what's coming around the corner.

You can see how big the quarter is going to be, how certain months are going, inspect

deals to see if you're on track.

And the second thing that's really important, I used to do this by hand and I learned how

to use HubSpot and it kind of changed the game for me, but you could do customer report

building so you can see where most of your sales are coming from, what type of tactics

are working, where to go get more customers.

It's pretty amazing.

So check it out.

You can learn more about HubSpot CRM's platform and how it can connect your business together.

HubSpot.com.

Check it out.

You...

How many people work there?

A hundred?

I think now we have 140.

Isn't that crazy?

It's... yeah, yeah, it is crazy.

Do you see it?

It was just started as a side...

Oh, sorry.

Am I cutting you off, dude?

No, keep going.

I want to hear from you.

No, it just started as a side hustle.

I was in a basement in San Francisco that was like, yo, I have a theory about what I

think will be big and I want to make 3,000 bucks a month.

Never was it like, I want to make millions of dollars or I want to have a bunch of people

or I want to have a bunch of customers.

Why 3,000 a month?

A thousand was for living, a thousand was for eating and a thousand was for saving.

That's funny.

That's almost exactly what I did too.

It was about that number.

Did you...

How big do you think it was going to get?

I never thought that far ahead.

I mean, there's a... go for it.

I keep interrupting you.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

No, that's all good, man.

Well, there's a quote I read by Paul Graham and it was like, if you're so worried about

what your company's going to be in 10 years, you're never going to make sure you can take

care of your customers today and your business won't exist in 10 years, so don't worry about

it.

And I just kind of... I guess that's served me well.

I think someone asked me, they're like, what did it take to become a millionaire?

And I think one of the things for me was just following the curiosity.

And I was curious about all this stuff that me and you get paid for.

Yeah, I mean, I'm in the same boat.

I think when I having 140 employees, I don't know if it would freak me out, but I remember...

Do you still look at your payroll when you pay it every two weeks?

Well, so do you want to just tell you the call?

Well, literally, that's why I was late to the podcast.

Because we're taking the whole team out to Costa Rica and then we're also... It was some

spend for advertising, it was like $50,000.

And I'm just like, yes, we make revenue, but at the end of the day, if you don't have income

and you're not a fund of business, you're going to go out of business.

And so I think it's figuring out how do you create checks and balances so I'm not stressing

about it weekly, but there's definitely some net income issues that are keeping me up.

And then we're doing budgeting projections.

And the fucked up thing with budgeting is if you budget for $120 million, whatever, $150,

and you spend on that and you don't make it, then yeah, you get kind of fucked too.

I think that you and I are similar in that when I see the... So I'll say, yeah, I want

to... I think we can hit $100 million in revenue.

And then they say, all right, well, then we have to spend $80 million.

And I look at it and I'm like, oh my God, what the hell?

What is this $50,000 expense?

What is this $10,000 expense?

Are you crazy?

We can't do this.

And I get fearful.

I think that's the cool thing about having a guy like Amen, where he's a little bit

less attached.

This company called Nerdwall.

You know Nerdwall?

Yeah.

Tim Chen gave me a little bit of money to start the hustle.

And it was his idea to give me money.

He was like, hey, can I give you some money to start this?

And I took it and they just went public at like three or four billion in valuation.

And I went to him one day, I go, Tim, we're spending $80,000 a month and expenses.

We're making more than that.

And he's like, that's crazy.

He goes, man, it's just an Excel number.

It's just a spreadsheet.

It has an input and an output.

That's all you should care about.

You shouldn't actually care that it's $80,000 a month.

And I still find myself freaking out over that stuff.

And so for you, let's say, I don't know.

I imagine your payroll is like $40, $50 million a year or something like that, or your payroll

and marketing expenses.

I flip out when I think about that because that's all basically your money.

Just with AEMON or someone else, you could be more detached.

I mean, AEMON always cared.

And AEMON, I have a lot of respect and admiration for him and he's still very involved.

I think the way that I've tried to approach it generally is two pieces.

Number one, when does the red flag need to be triggered?

So every week we have a Monday KPI sheet that they update our gross margin, they update

like customers.

And so there's color coding and it's like, okay, are there red flags in any of the numbers

that I need to call shit on?

And I think that obviously reduces your anxiety and it helps you make sure that you're trusting

but verifying.

I think the second thing around it is that how much, if something is a profitable spend,

how much should you spend?

It depends on, it all depends on a lot of different stuff.

But if you're spending money and you're making 30% profit, go all in.

There's no budget.

It's unlimited.

And I think that's part of the question with the spending for me is that where is our spending

very profitable?

Like, is it in marketing?

Is it in development?

Is it in sales?

Is it in the partner success team?

Or is there things like that that should be more like AWS where they're a little bit

more scalable up and down and they're not as profitable?

So we need to be mindful of that.

How big do you think this business could get in like 10 or 20 years?

Do you ever think about that?

I'm just trying to survive to next year, dude.

I mean, you know, it's funny.

We've had, as we've grown, and it's been interesting because I have my YouTube channel, which is

a very small team of like five people.

And then we have AppSumo, which is a larger thing.

I come back to the why, right?

Like on AppSumo, it's very simple.

We promote dope tools at great prices and we help people start and grow online businesses.

AppSumo.com.

And I think we have to come back to that because people are like, we're going to be in five

years.

I'm like, probably helping people grow and start online business.

No, I know you're going to be doing the same thing, but like, do you think that?

Revenue was, I mean, we were, yeah, we, we, we went to the spreadsheet and we tripled numbers,

Silicon Valley, double, double, triple, triple from in and out.

And we became a billion dollar company revenue in like five years or something like that.

I think right now, we're candidly, some of our mechanics in terms of the scalable business

means as we add partners, do we get customers and as business grow, the, the, how do I say

it more clearly?

It's just not adding up.

Like we added more partners this year and the proportional amount of customers did not

come with that.

And so we have to work a little bit more on that flywheel.

Well, I think that you must have sure with trends.

So we had trends that are subscription service.

We fucking crushed it during COVID.

We crushed it.

And I think now sales slow down a little bit.

I think it's cyclical, but in this, the like, I bet, if I had a bet, COVID was like the

best times you ever had COVID, COVID was great, man.

I thought it was just great in general, right?

I thought it brought, there's a lot of good about COVID, just about humanity and not the

death part maybe, but like the bringing people closer.

I don't know, man.

I've been doing the internet shit since 2004.

I've never had a recession and it's not that I have some super power, but it's like, well,

the only way to not have recession is just keep doing things that people want.

And basically, I think one of the other key things to kind of consider is how do you have

discipline when times are good?

So you don't have to be as disciplined when times are bad.

And I think right now, candidly with absumo, I think we're being a little bit on discipline

with our spending and our hiring because times have been better.

And I'm trying to get that a little bit more tighter, whether the, you know, the future

is good or not.

Why the hell is the next years?

Why is your YouTube team so big?

Five people?

I don't even think it's that big.

I thought it was like a hundred people.

No way.

You think he has a hundred employees?

At least 50 full time.

At least 50 full time.

No way.

It's not a hundred contractors.

Yeah.

And are they, what's his name?

The Mr. Beast.

Jimmy.

Jimmy.

Are they all like, it's because it's like the Jimmy show, right?

So it's like, whatever he wants you do, I think that'd be weird to have 50 employees

where it's like, Hey guys, next week, I'm thinking I want to do this.

The reason I would hate that is because then you've got someone like, Hey Jimmy, what if

we had a Rolling Stones song in the background?

No, I don't want that.

Just like, let me do what I want to do, please.

Just like fulfill that.

So we have a head of staff and one thing I've never, one thing I hate, I hate when someone's

like, Hey, can you remind me about this?

And I'm like, no bitch, just write it down.

I just told you.

You want me to remind you, like do your job.

But I will say, you know, becoming CEO, which I never called myself over the years until

recently, and is that there is times where you're like, yo, remind me.

And you're like, Oh my God, you're gonna remind me.

Her name's Anna, who's head of staff.

She's phenomenal.

And then with the YouTube channel, I'm like, Hey, I want you to come back with more ideas.

Go pitch me 10 more ideas.

Go and they come back and they, I'm like, this is the best ever.

And so I think it is figuring out, you know, what areas you like to play in and then being

around people that you're just consistently impressed with.

But having people that'll do help you figure out shit.

Oh my God, it's epic.

Are you getting noticed on the street now?

No, not.

Dude, really?

You don't.

It varies in Austin.

You know, it's kind of our hometown.

So I think more people do it.

Um, not, not actually not even though the channel's gotten bigger, we doubled this year.

I actually used to get noticed a lot at the gym.

The guy, Hey bro, I'm like, Hey, I don't know.

I'm always still excited when people came and come and say hi.

I just got.

Did you get recognized?

Yeah.

Weekly.

Like this morning, just walking down the street and it makes me a little nervous sometimes

because I'm like thinking I got to like, uh, like, like, like, uh, I love smoking cigars

and I'll just walk around smoking cigars and I'm like, I don't want people to see me smoking.

It makes me a little nervous.

You know, don't you think it's flattering?

I'm always so, I always feel honored that like something I've worked on.

Yeah.

Something I've worked on has impacted this person and they're excited to say hi to me.

Like who have you seen that you've said hi to that you're a little nervous?

The other day I saw Logan Paul and I, and I, and I respect Logan Paul and I said, what's

up?

And I just, I just pounded and I go, I just pounded it while I was walking by.

He's huge.

You're Logan's huge.

Was this here?

New York when I was in, or I guess it wasn't the other day about two or three months ago.

I saw him and I, and I respect it.

I respect what he built and he was a big old dude and I, I could have stopped and be like,

Hey, like this is what I do for a living.

Your brother was on my thing and I probably, we probably got friends of friends, but I

was honestly kind of nervous and I just like, just pounded it when I walked away.

Well, you, I'm sure they'll do a Twitter thing like, Hey, I want to have Logan on the

show, but anyways, that's, that's awesome man.

It's the time of the year for one thing.

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Did you see my Twitter thread about when I met the Silk Road guy?

No.

You didn't see that?

I posted it the other day.

I was looking through old Dropbox pictures and I'll go to my Instagram or something.

You'll see it.

Yeah.

And I posted your, yeah, I want you to see it.

It's me with Ross Albright, the guy from Silk Road.

Oh, I think I remember that story you posted about it.

Yeah.

I talked about it like here, but I was looking through old Dropbox pictures and I found the

pictures of us together.

And I originally took them down off Facebook because I was nervous, but now it's no big

deal.

And I posted the pictures about how I met this guy named Ross at a party and we just

chit-chatted and he got arrested like a month later and I know, I recognized him and I was

like, oh my God, that was Ross, the guy we hung out with at the party.

How much better is your life now being rich?

Do you know that $70,000, that $70,000 study?

I've heard that.

It sounds like bullshit to me.

It's bullshit.

It's way better.

It's way better.

It's significantly better.

It's significantly better.

I think like, I still worry about stuff and I was just talking to my friend about this

today and I was like, why am I nervous about this and that?

I told Neville, I go, Neville, Neville bought this $800 vacuum and I was like, I went up

to his house to borrow it and I was like, I can't buy one of these.

It's $800.

It's expensive and he's like, why are you worrying about that?

I'm like, I don't know.

It freaks me out.

I'm afraid to buy stuff.

So do you have that?

Yeah.

Well, I think two things are interesting.

One, I went to the grocery store, I was with my parent, you know, for Thanksgiving.

My mom bought, we get grapes.

I really into green grapes lately and she's like, Noah, these are really expensive today.

Let's not get them.

I'm like, Deborah, it's your birthday.

I'm going to treat you.

You get two of them.

I don't.

No problems, anything that's health-related, I'll buy.

I don't know.

I'm still mindful of it.

I think what's fascinating on the other side of it, Sam, is like, I mentioned it to you

in text, but you didn't want me to talk about it, which is like crypto and NFT crap, which

all these, you know, former Shopify store owners now are crypto experts, which is funny.

And I like trade and I'll make, or I'll buy something and make like $100 or I'll lose

like a thousand.

And I'm like, not devastated.

Same.

And then like absumo, like we promote partners and, you know, we'll do like a million dollars

in a day and the partners make like 700,000 and our customers are happy and I'm like,

well, that's cool.

Yeah.

It's funny.

There's a phrase.

It's called a penny poor pound rich, I think, right?

Yeah.

Something like that.

Do you, we were talking about crypto, but you don't actually buy crypto, right?

You just bought a bunch at one time and you held on to it.

Oh, no.

Well, two things.

One thing I want to highlight.

So my business partner at absumo.com, you like how I plug it?

He actually had this phrase.

That was great.

He's like, no, don't confuse the ant hills for the mountains.

I was like, damn, that's good.

And he's like, when we're doing work at absumo and, you know, the different products we've

built or, you know, whatever it is, he's like, is this a macro thing or a micro thing?

And let's do the macro thing.

Let's get some fucking mountains, man.

He's like, don't sweat this bullshit stuff.

And I'm like, all right, but that's hard, man, especially.

I was telling someone recently where there's all these productivity tools and everyone's

always, everyone's always like, what's the latest product?

I'm like, you're not even doing anything.

Like don't worry about the calendar or the productivity tool.

Worry about just doing important things.

This is the best productivity tool the back of an envelope.

That's damn.

It's good.

That gets the job done.

Oh, my crypto thing.

Yeah.

I buy, I'm a boring investor.

So I think there's active income and passive income and I try to focus on my active.

So I just started buying in 2015 and I just put it on autopilot and I just auto bought

it every month for the past six years.

And it's like made up of a substantial, I mean, you've done well with it, I think,

which is pretty great.

I'll tell you the number on that.

That I don't mind.

What?

Okay.

I mean, you can.

I don't have to tell you.

It's fine.

I, if I had a bet, can I, can I guess?

Oh yeah.

Or I'll be cagey.

I would guess between one and two million, not four million, but it's four million.

Yeah.

Isn't that nuts?

Well, it's always so funny because then you're like yesterday I was this weekend, I was like

disappointed I didn't buy crypto punks when my buddy was like, you should buy it, buy it,

dude.

But it was like $50,000.

And I'm like, that's fucking crazy to buy status and imagery and like, it's an investment.

It's only investment when it goes up.

It's gambling when it goes down.

Well, the NFTs I think are mostly fucking stupid.

Oh, don't get me started.

Dude, I just went on a deep hole.

Are you on board or not?

Dude, I just got scammed.

I lost.

I'm like, I can't, I don't even know what happened for the past two weeks.

I'm like, yesterday I woke up at eight a.m. to buy apes.

I just spent $1,600 on apes.

What of the four million in crypto?

How much did you, what's your, what's your basis there?

Um, I could pull it up.

It's probably maybe about half a million or 400,000.

Isn't that amazing?

Is that crazy?

Uh, yeah.

Well, I think I've always just, it's interesting because I've always, not always, when I started

using it, I was like, Oh, I can see why this is going to be big.

Um, but yeah, the return on it as an investment is pretty insane.

That's nuts.

What else, and like, what else could do that?

Like some public equity equities, uh, but you don't even angel invest, do you?

I mean, angel invest could do that.

It just takes forever.

Yeah, it's not.

I mean, I think the best investment for everyone is their own business.

So if you look at it like active income, like really creating your own company has pretty

much the highest multiples I can imagine.

So you can control it if you can get something to work because most of them don't work that

well.

Yeah, but you got to grind sometimes often.

I talked to this guy, I was biking on Saturday and this guy named Nick, he's like, man,

I got a grind.

And I was like, how much do you, I was like, how much does he make?

He makes these like 60 K. And I was like, why don't you, you know, it doesn't, I don't

care.

I'm not judging him how much he makes.

It was like, but if you're going to grind, at least grind something has higher upside

for yourself because it's the same amount of work.

Like he doesn't work harder than me.

I don't work harder than him.

I just worked on something that from a strictly financial perspective has a better opportunity.

When you were working with Amen.

So Amen is, uh, was your CEO and good friend, my good friend too.

When, how often, how often would you talk to him?

It varied like, it varied probably like once a week on Fridays and then one, a little bit

throughout the week, but they actually kept me out of slack.

They kept me out of everything because it's kind of like, you know, he's like, my mom's

a Jewish mother.

It's like, Noah, what's that on the screen?

What is that?

I don't know where to be out.

And I think that's probably the reason he wanted to step out and this is, I don't think

we're airing our private stuff.

Wait, he wanted to step out because you were nagging him.

Yeah.

I think to some extent, I don't think anyone feels really excited.

No one wakes up like excited, you know, unless it's some weird kink, uh, to be like, Oh,

what are you doing today?

And I think there's probably a little bit too much of that.

Uh, do you think that, I mean, I have, I've had people quit for that reason.

I do the same thing.

You and I are very similar.

You know that, right?

And I did the same thing where I'm like, why are you doing this?

What's going on today?

What are you doing right now?

Today?

Like what actions can we take immediately to fix X, Y and Z?

And I think you need both.

You need that urgency.

But like if you have a good, if you have a winner, you do got to let them chill and get

it done.

Um, do you think that amen, whenever I have hired people to run stuff, I always, I get,

I freak out.

I'm like, this guy's gonna, when he finds out that I'm like profiting off their work,

like they're going to bail.

This is so unfair.

And I hope they don't figure this out.

Did you freak out about that?

I used to have a lot of that where I'd never would post anything on social.

Same.

Like I wouldn't post any activity.

I wouldn't post like my, you know, our YouTube videos was like, hello, I made my first million.

Like I would never say shit about that.

And eventually, uh, I got to a point where I was like, well, am I helping these people

do their best lives at the company?

And what I, can I, am I doing my best to pay them whatever they want?

So like with amen, I'm not going to share his numbers, but I asked him, I was like,

how much do you want to make?

And he said numbers and he made more than that.

And so I never really felt this, I never felt guilt because that guy got more than he wanted.

And I got well too.

But I think within the company, it's also people are free to work wherever.

So it's like, how do you create an environment that people are like, yo, that guy's doing

well and I'm doing well.

Are you interested in any projects right now?

You had send Fox, did you shut down send Fox?

Uh, no, we're still running send Fox.com.

It's a MailChimp alternative.

Um, what do you like with have a projects are keeping you up?

The two things that I'm, I mean, number one is absumo.

So, you know, becoming more of a marketplace.

So you buy yourself software tools, books.

And then the second stuff is like, all this NFT stuff is mind blowing.

There's just so much.

So Sam, I think like you, you kind of smirk.

And you know, I, at first, I think that's what a lot of people have done with it.

Same with crypto.

And I was buying in 2015, but you're like, I don't, I don't fully get it.

But there's something just interesting.

The same with when I joined Facebook, when I joined Facebook, people were like, you're

going to go work at a social network.

Okay.

Same, you know, it seems weird, but there's just a lot of these really interesting use

cases that, uh, I'm very tempted and I'm very excited about what use cases.

So some of the really interesting ones, one is called city, Dow.

So basically everyone pulls their money and then they buy a city.

So they bought land in Wyoming.

And now if you own one of the NFTs or tokens within it, you get votes to what they're going

to do with the city.

That's amazing.

So I find, I find that really fascinating.

Plus everything's public.

So you see who's voting.

You see what the votes are.

There's not much hidden.

There's other ones that I've liked.

One's called head.

Dow.

It's kind of a stupid ass one.

I think conceptually it's really interesting.

I don't know if it's run well, um, but what I like about it is it is a, uh, fund where

you buy their NFTs.

So there's 10,000, everyone buys an NFT and if you hold the NFTs, um, and the fund goes

and buys stuff and based on your NFT, you get some return for whatever the, the fund

invests in.

So it's kind of like a index fund of crypto and other assets for the, I think there's

just something.

What's the city one called?

City, Dow.

The city.

Dow.

I don't know, but it's all public for the most part, but there's just, there's so

much stuff like that.

Like think about this.

You can do housing.

So like right now housing is like Noah owns a contract goes to the thing and all this

will, it's like, you can have a house that's shared by a thousand people or like Roblox

or Minecraft in the game stuff is really interesting where it's like, there's not like Facebook

and Twitter that get everything or Roblox.

It's like the creators and the consumers own the whole thing.

Same with the absumo.

Like how could we create it?

So the whole customer base owns absumo.

So they're incentivized even to start doing absumo more.

I guess it's kind of like owning a share in Amazon or deeper level.

Are you, have you ever like paid money to be part of like a membership group, like a

tiger 21 or anything like that?

Not yet.

I've always, not yet.

So there's this thing called a, what's it called friends with benefits?

Have you seen that?

I've heard of it.

And so I think the market cap is like hundreds of millions at this point.

And so it was basically a, a Soho house online.

So like cool New York young people paid either 500 or a thousand or $2,000 to be part of

an online group that held meetups.

And it was like hot people and fucking young people wearing vans and supreme and shit,

like cool kid shit.

And it was, you know, you had to buy an NFT or a coin to join the, the community.

And you're incentivized to make the community awesome because people could sell their membership

or like give it up and it could be worth more than when they initially bought in that.

And I think that's interesting.

There's just a lot of you.

I mean, it's still so early.

So what's going to like, what's going to like after the dust settles and the consolidation

of all the junk?

Cause I'll tell you, I jumped in, there's like all this discord, discord, you know,

it's like slack for juvenile delinquents.

Dude, it's so hard to figure out.

I feel so old.

It's hard to use.

It's not just that.

It's just hard to use.

And then it's just like so spammy.

Like I go in it and they're like, that is, there's just a lot going on in the space.

And so trying to, trying not to rush into anything, but just understand like, all right, I think

I've seen what we did a good job where people are like, I want to start businesses.

I want tools and it's like, how is entrepreneurship and startups and all that stuff evolving?

And there's definitely something where there's so much money and there's so much speed being

happening in this crypto NFT space that I find just, I don't know, at this current

time I'm like obsessed with the guy or the people setting up the town in Wyoming.

How are they going to make a profit?

How did they get paid?

So there's a lot of different, dude, there's all these different, I fully don't understand

every single one out there.

I'm not biology, but what they do is a few different things.

So one, they could keep some of the assets.

So when they, so they do a few different things.

When you mint the tokens or the NFTs to give out, you, people buy into it.

So when I create the baseball cards and I sell it to you, it's like one ETH each for you

to buy.

I, the city Dow keeps all that.

And then they could decide how much of that goes out to use to buy land.

They could say 80% buys land or 50%.

They can decide that.

The second thing they do, which is really interesting, this is what's really clever

about NFTs stuff is a lot of times on the secondary sales, the original owner gets

a cut.

You know that?

Yeah.

I didn't know how much though.

So it varies.

So you can have a thing where if I create NFTs and it's ever resold, I get 5% of all sales

forever.

That is crazy.

So there's just, there's some really interesting things.

And then you can have people contribute more.

There's just a lot of variations.

And look, in the end of the day, people have had partnerships.

So this is not brand new.

I think the, the medium of exchange through crypto and all this stuff is creating new,

new opportunities.

Would you, you and Neville and a couple of other friends went and hung out with Peter

Teal a few weeks ago and you could decide what you want to publicize or not.

But one thing that I think I can say is, um, I think he said this to Neville or something

where he was like, you know, businesses are, are neat, but they die.

And he said something like a city, any city that's ever been a somewhat major city, it's

never died before.

And apparently his obsession right now is on cities.

And I actually invested in this one company where they're doing a gene editing, you know,

gene editing is not familiar.

It's like basically the, the kind of explained like I'm five version is if you get a disease

in your skin, like goes away or something happens to your skin and it gets messed up.

Gene editing, you can tinker with someone's genes and it will grow, they'll grow back

new skin.

Whereas before they probably wouldn't have the issue with gene editing is that it's

highly regulated by the FDA.

And so like the future of gene editing could be like, if you're an amputee, you can grow

back a new leg or, or you could grow a new liver or kidney or whatever, you know, shit

like that.

And Peter teal has this city in like Bolivia, somewhere in central or South America.

And he basically is like the founder of this city and this company that I invested in is

based out of that city because there is no FDA in that city, which is like potentially

horrible, but it's kind of interesting.

He said that he's in, he's incredibly invested and interested in new cities.

And I think so.

I think that that's cool.

When I hear about all these new startup people, like Mark, Lori, the founder of jet, he has

a new cities.

I think these new cities are actually incredibly fascinating.

Yeah.

I, I'm more interested in kind of like shared home ownership.

I think there's something just kind of clever, like how do I own a building, but there's

a lot of people that own it and a lot of people can use it.

I think there's just like too many people that have too much house for just one individual.

So I like the concept of that.

What did you think about office?

What did you think about meeting Peter teal?

You know, what was it?

There's a lot of interesting things about him.

Um, I think when I tweeted about this at no Kagan was that his, he just uses like an

iPhone seven.

All right.

What are we on now?

What I've got the new one.

What is that?

Yeah.

13 pro dot five.

And he's on a seven.

Yeah, and he had like, you know, crappy ass new balances.

He looked like he was wearing like Mervin socks and like, you know, like Wrangler jeans.

I gotta give a fuck about it.

And, you know, what's he really, you think he was wearing Wrangler jeans Wrangler.

Just like North like Kate Martin jeans.

Just like normal.

And, you know, but he also had three security guards and, you know, cameras and they checked

the building, all that kind of stuff.

I think I admired that he is a thinker and it made me appreciate, you know, I met him

when I worked at Facebook and I still remember this story.

He like bought into our poker game and then he had to go meet with Zuck and then he lost.

And then he's like, Hey, can I get my money back?

And then Boz who's now like the CTO was like, fuck no.

He asked for his money back.

Yeah.

Peter did.

And I was like, can't believe that also we would say no to the guy who's the only, you

know, the main investor at the time.

I think the other thing that I appreciate how much was the buy in like 10 bucks and he asked

for it back.

Yes.

He's doing it, dude.

Like I was kind of surprised he wanted it back, but then I liked that Boz like, fuck

you.

He told it.

He said that exactly like that.

He said, fuck you.

No.

No, no, no.

He just was like, no.

And then the funny thing about that I like busted out.

I don't know.

Me like 20 minutes later and I go outside and his like half a million dollar McLaren is sitting

outside.

It's like, all right, all right.

Did you tell him that?

Do you remind him of that story when you're with him recently?

No, I don't think he remembers me.

But yeah, I think the second thing about him is that he's a very, I have, I'm just looking

at my notes of him.

I don't mind sharing.

I think just like he's just a deep thinker.

It just felt like this guy's like really like him and this is another, you know, him and

like Keith Reboi and all these guys, there are a lot of history readers.

They're like deep ass, like reading boring fucking books about 1900 history that I just

won't, I'm not won't.

I just don't do.

And I think that gives that's where a lot of their advantage comes from.

So Ben, who's on this podcast has this podcast that's on history and he just talks about

historical figures and he does a biography on them.

It's incredibly fascinating.

And right before you came on, we did a whole podcast on history and how you could just

learn, you could learn.

You basically could just not make the mistakes that other people have made just from reading

about them.

So it's kind of interesting.

Keith Reboi, I don't know Keith Reboi other than Twitter, dude, he comes off like such

a jerk on Twitter.

I don't know if I want to hang out with him, but I definitely would want to meet Peter

Teal.

Dude, Keith's the legend.

I love me, Keith Reboi, him, David Sax.

I don't listen to the all in show.

Have you met Keith?

Is he cool?

Keith is sharp.

He doesn't really respond to me.

He doesn't respond to me as much anymore because I've been trying to get him on my show on

the no Kagan show and but he's just fucking bright, man.

Like the guy's very bright.

I think he's very astute.

I also like people that have a, I think lately I'm more considerate and I like when you're

he's at a level of wealth in the hundreds of millions that it's just like, fuck it.

And he's like, yo, that guy's a dumbass.

San Francisco's bullshit.

I think this is crying.

I have a lot of admiration for anyone who has that too.

I just think that you could do it.

I don't think that you need to be polite all the time.

I'm an asshole too.

I just think that like when you are a boss and you're a winner and you maybe pick on

the weak ones publicly in a in a rude and abrupt way, it makes you look weak and soft

and like a bully.

And I think that I that's how I don't like how it comes off online.

But whenever I have seen interviews with him, he seems incredibly kind.

Not kind, but polite.

I don't know.

I mean, I think, I guess I also agree with his opinion.

So I don't mind his approach.

Like he's like, lives warm and sucks.

Miami's the best.

Here's like businesses that I'm, um, you know, really bullish on you like Miami.

I'm more neutral to it.

I haven't spent enough time.

It seems appealing.

Like there's, I really wanted to go to art basil.

Like that's on a bucket list, man, to see all the cool art and FTE and just like the

vibe.

Uh, I'm not, I think every city's got every, every, everyone has a calling when they get

into a city.

Miami's never called me to live there when I visit, but it's enjoyable.

Would you stay, I do intend to stay in Austin for a while.

Yeah.

I think it's also, if you ever feel like stuck in life, like I was feeling a little flat

and like frustrated with a lot of work, shit going on and you know, I don't know, I wanted

pity party and I think to take, you know, to take a power party and you got to get the

fuck out.

So like I was in Albuquerque last week.

I'm going to go to Cabo this weekend, going to go to the Bay Area in LA in a few weeks.

I think you need to get the fuck out sometimes and just change geography.

So tell me about Peter Teal.

What do your notes say?

Let me look at my notes.

Um, I would, okay.

Here's a shocker.

This was shocked me.

Sam, if you had five, he's probably worth like 10 billion.

I was like, Peter, how much are you spending on longevity?

And he's like, almost nothing.

What that's crazy.

I would like that.

I spent everything on that.

I was like, dude, drop a bill.

Give me a billion.

I'm going to sell it.

So he doesn't spend anything on longevity.

He spends very little.

He's like, I do, he does some stuff like mail things to help, but like very like, I thought

he would be like, yeah, I have scientists on staff and I have an institute and I'm like,

you know, and the other thing is I was like, Oh, do you have a crazy diet?

And he's like, he's like, none of that really is going to move the needle dramatically.

He's like, I eat dark chocolate.

I eat chocolate cake at night.

Like he was telling us how his assistant hides food from him, so he doesn't eat it when he

travels.

And I was like, you think the guy who's like this genius and which he is, it's like hyper

discipline.

He's like, no, I'm not.

But he also knows he's not.

So he accommodates.

So I think I was just shocked that he's not doing more longevity.

We talked about, um, on the podcast, we talked about this guy named Brian Johnson who started

brain tree and he's like a billionaire guy now.

And he's got a whole website where you can look at where he's spending millions of dollars

a year on his longevity and you can go to his website and look at all the stuff that

he's doing.

And it's incredibly fascinating.

And when I saw that, I'm like, this is exactly what you should do if you're, if you're that

wealthy.

And I'm amazed that Peter Thiel doesn't do that.

Yeah.

That was shocking.

I was shocked that he had low willpower.

He talked to, you know, cause you kind of, you watch all these fucking videos and you

listen to the podcast, it's like, I wake up at five and I have, you know, celery and I

take a cold shower.

He's like, nah, I like eating chocolate cake.

And he's, you know, and he was drinking wine and like he eat carbs and I was like, he's

a fucking human, which made me have a lot of appreciation for him.

And I, I mean, and I felt like he also was very generous way more than I thought.

He stayed and talked to us the whole time, like four hours without checking his phone,

without tweeting any bullshit.

And it was very present, which I really appreciated.

What else?

Uh, what else?

I'll tell you a phrase that he's, I read the book.

I read the book.

I was going to say, I'm trying to buy time, but I thought you were looking at your notes.

Sorry.

No, I got the notes right here.

Dude.

I read this book with him and Ryan Holiday and Ryan Holiday said something really,

I thought cool about him where he said, basically, if you ask him a question, he'll say, well,

you know, some people believe this.

Other people think that it's this, this and this.

Like he like looks at, uh, he looks at all sides and he doesn't actually always tell

his opinion.

It's an interesting thought.

Um, I think one of the things he had a lot of phrases, do you want to hear from you?

These like kind of, he just had these phrases.

I'm like, man, these are great phrases.

Look ahead function.

I thought that was good.

What's that mean?

Uh, basically like how are you looking and when you're thinking about a decision, how

are you looking ahead to what the outcome could be?

And I thought that was really clever.

Like how much are you thinking further ahead on things, uh, zombification.

He's like, everyone is a dumb ass.

There's no, everyone has like the same thoughts.

He's like, I'm looking for anyone who has unique thoughts, um, incremental versus monumental

shifts.

Yeah.

That's a baller.

That's a baller one.

That's a really good one.

Um, companies are mortal.

Yeah.

I was, I was thinking about that and we, I was talking in a novel, he goes, yeah, Peter

told me about this and he, uh, and I was like, yeah, I think that's true.

And I was trying to think of like a city in America that is like just gone away and one

that was at least a mediocre city and there's nothing.

Well, I think the thing that I never thought of that he had, I was like, whoa, that's so

interesting.

Like we think of cities as like, um, he was trying to talk about how cities, you're kind

of like a shareholder of a country and I never thought about that.

He's like, you can, you know, remote work is the worst thing that can happen to cities.

Did he have an opinion about that?

Yeah.

He thinks places like California and San Francisco or people can vote now with their feet.

And so the ability to work remote now hurts them.

Um, yeah, and, and, and I agree with that, but doesn't he live in LA?

Yeah.

That's kind of weird.

Right.

I, I admire that.

I think I get annoyed with people like, I'm in Puerto Rico to save Ford Nichols and I'm

like, well, yeah, but you have to, Puerto Rico is actually not horrible, but you have

to live there.

Yeah.

There's no fucking power for two weeks if there's a hurricane and look, there's, dude,

you're on the beach.

There's, I love Mexican food.

It's got margarita.

It's got a good life.

But at the other side of that is like, is that how much is it worth to live a suboptimal

life?

And I admire that he's like, fuck it.

I'm in LA.

I'm going to live baller, um, even whatever tax rate this is.

I read that in that same book, what's that Ryan holiday book?

It's awesome.

Do you want me to tell you or not tell you?

No conspiracy or conspiracy theories or something.

Yeah, that's it.

Is that what it just conspiracy theory?

Is that it?

Conspiracy.

Um, he's in that book.

He said that wherever Peter teal goes 24 hours a day, he's got a black Mercedes waiting

for him.

Oh, that, that's what was outside the car.

That was outside the restaurant.

Was it a black Mercedes?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He had a disco ball inside.

It was crazy.

And I think I'm almost positive.

He says it's running at all times.

He tells them he asked, they have to have it running.

That's really interesting.

In the book.

That's what he said.

He goes, he has a Mercedes form all the time and, uh, apparently he's got like some residence

or something in New Zealand where, uh, I think there's also a jet waiting for him, uh, like

in a close vicinity wherever he's going.

And he goes, just in case if anything bad happens, he could bolt to New Zealand.

I think the question that I'm curious that you got me thinking about for myself or for

you or for the audience is that if we had a billion dollars, how would we live differently?

What do you think you do?

You still want to do stuff.

Right.

Like you still want to work.

Like work is fun.

It's like, oh, it's like, dude, sit around all day, see how that goes.

It's fucking boring.

It's fucking lame.

Um, not too much.

I think I would just do the things I'm doing at a higher level now.

I would like not worry about buying houses.

I'm not sure.

I do.

I don't know.

The absolute most stuff is hard.

I don't think I would pay right away to get out of it, but I'd try to figure some,

something else.

It's, it's tough.

Like I got another like year or two in it for this, this role, uh, then probably buy

houses and I'm just trying to figure out how to adjust the work to only do the area

I want.

I would accumulate large amounts of land and I would create nice residents on all of them.

So me and my friends can just go and like, it's so rare that we can go someplace and

do whatever we want.

And that's exciting for me.

Like that's what we, we should do.

Do we have any friends that have lots of land that we can go and shoot guns and drive

motorcycles and shit and just be like 12 year olds?

That's what I want to do.

I thought, I thought what you were going to say, I was really hoping Sam, our answers

would be like, you know, I would take that billion dollars and give it out to the world.

Well, I'm not giving it to the world, but I would like anything like, like I felt bad.

Do you remember that Tony Shay, Tony Shay, the guy from Zappos, you know, that's sad.

It was sad.

And, but when I saw that, I'm like, man, I wish it didn't go that way.

But at the same time, like he would travel with an entourage and I'm like, that is sick

as, you know, the substance abuse things was bad.

But wherever I went, I would just say crew who's, who's coming with and you and I have

a friend, this guy who started rent jungle or not rent jungle, jungle scout, Greg Mercer.

And he bought these fancy seats to F one.

And I don't know how much it costs, but I bet you this box costs 50 to $100,000.

And he was like, um, hey, do you want, do you want to come?

And I just had cheapo tickets and he's like, we took care of everything.

And I was like, what?

I was like, well, how much is it?

I'll pay you.

He goes, no, no, no, it's cool, man.

It's fun.

I like Sharon.

She brought me and it was awesome and he's told me stories about how he takes people

to tell you ride.

He just, if he's doing cool shit, he's like, Hey, anyone who wants to come come with me

and it sounds awesome.

That's what I want to do.

I did, I think I'm told this, I did my will like a year ago and then it was kind of like,

it was surreal.

I was like, well, I guess I'm going to maybe die one day, but then it really inspired me

to live while I'm here and spend the money now while I'm here.

So even with my brother, I'm like, do you want to kill me and get the money now?

Or can I just give you some of it now?

And it's just, it's exciting to start thinking about how to live like you have the will and

like live like you're dead and enjoy the money with friends like you're talking about.

I think that's a great way to approach it.

Do you, are you going to have kids anytime soon?

I mean, it feels weird making a will where you got to like give shit to your mom and

your brother.

Yeah, my brother has a kid, which I was like, that guy's going to get all this money.

Like that's crazy.

It's not even yours.

Yeah, it's not even mine or it's not like it's not your kid.

I mean, it just feels weird that like you love him, but you're not, it's not your, your

blood or your, your, you know,

It is part some blood.

I think some.

Uh, yeah.

I think I'll have kids.

I mean, I, maybe I'll go to sperm bank and just donate a ton and then each of those

kids gets like a mil.

Maybe they get each one of them gets a crypto punk.

Yeah.

Shit.

We're going to wrap up here in a minute, but this has been a me entering episode.

I actually think it's going to go over kind of well.

I think people are going to dig it.

You know, I got nothing to say to that.

I thought it's interesting.

I mean, talked about a variety of subjects and then what, what do people want out of

the show?

Why do you think people listen to something that like entertain like empty calories,

frankly, business advice?

So there's a few things.

One, I will say I'm shocked anyone listens, but at this point we're at, we're at, we're

like over a million downloads a month now, um, which is crazy.

So some episodes like 50, 60, 70,000 downloads, which is pretty crazy.

Um, two, shockingly, people find us funny.

Like that's what the comments say, which amazed me.

And three, I would say Sean's really good.

I think Sean's good.

I think a lot of people listen for him.

You're good too, man.

You did a good follow on.

I mean, I think what it is is you're the only ones left podcasting.

Like everyone gave up like a few years ago and you're like, no one told you so you kept

going.

It's been so hard.

It is hard, man.

But I think that's, you know, you forget, my mom always says this, like you forget how

hard the last lap is.

And I think sometimes when you just kind of push through and you're like, oh, I guess

that wasn't so hard as a further way you get from it.

What is YouTube easier, you think it's hard that you could define easy, right?

Is the bullshit answer?

Well, um, yeah, it's challenging in a, in a different way.

I think the intimacy of an audience is really high with podcasts.

Like they're really spending a lot of time with you YouTube.

It's harder to be successful on it.

I think it's harder.

I don't know, harder, but the year is a broader audience available for you to reach.

So that's why I spend all my time, that's why I stopped podcasting more or less.

I still have my show that no, Kate and presents, but you know, of my content creation audience

building 95% of that's in YouTube world.

The things that's harder for people to do it, like you can't just go, it's so hard.

It's so hard.

You put out a video and like, well, all of it takes forever.

It's just like, I think, you know, the bullshit answer is find the thing that you could work

forever on my video that I made my first YouTube video.

I'm going to start doing one a week.

I got 3000 views, baby.

Oh, which one?

The drinking one?

No, the real estate one about my project.

How many views?

Two to 4.3 thousand views, 2.4 thousand.

That's good, man.

Like, dude, I didn't even remove the descript logo at the bottom because it cost $25.

And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to even do this next next month.

Did you edit yourself?

Yeah.

Good for you.

There's no editing.

They're just like, I spliced clips together.

How was it for you?

How was this experience doing it?

It sucks.

I hated it, but it's cool to see the result.

Like I understand why it's good.

You know who the best at here's the best YouTuber I think out right now.

He's out of this world.

Nick Bear.

Oh, dude, love Nick Bear.

Nick Bear is the best YouTuber I've been seeing lately.

The other day he put out basically a documentary and he's doing like one or two a week.

He did a documentary in the Leadville 100.

This 100 mile race he did.

Nick Bear is the most impressive YouTuber I've seen lately.

Do you agree with that?

Have you had him on your show?

Yeah, but it was a little bit more, it was before he was really famous.

Nick is just dope, man.

He's just like a good dude.

And like, when you find out he like started his business at 4 a.m. when he was on base

in Korea, they're like, damn, that's like, I'm not surprised when people are successful.

I'm like, oh yeah, you put in the work and you stuck with it for a long period of time.

That's it.

Did you meet him in person?

Yeah.

It's awesome.

Is he just yoked?

Yeah.

I'm going to, I think I'm going to work out with him next month or in January.

Oh, you kept up with him?

Yeah.

I think part of it is like, you know, I've said this before, it's like most of my network

is from who I know.

And so Nick, I got to meet him and help out, help his stuff.

He helps me out.

But there's certain people that you see like Nick that you're just like, yeah, man, I hope

you get there.

And he's getting there, obviously, but there's just people you want to see succeed.

I think people don't want to see me and you succeed, Sam, but they just can't stop us.

Some do.

Some are like, no, why do you say that?

I want to see you succeed.

But I think it's just not enough to stop.

You and I are very punchable.

That's why we do boxing.

We let other people have a chance to punch us.

Let me ask you a last question.

What can I learn from Nick?

From you knowing him?

Oh, I would definitely have him back on the show.

When he was on the show, he was super like almost naive.

Like it felt like, like not, but that not a bad way where he was like learning as we

were talking to him.

He acted like he was unaware of certain things and I'm like, dude, I know you know about

this, but you're just like a sponge and you're just trying to get me to tell you everything.

So, you know, he was just interesting.

He just felt like a student.

Yeah, that's, I mean, it could be as, I don't know if he's trying to be strategic about

that.

I think that's interesting.

I don't know.

I guess with Nick, I'm impressed his involvement from like someone who was a Marine or I think

he was a Ranger to a business operator.

Also he's kind of in a, in a, to somebody's to commoditize space.

Right?

Like sugar powder.

Yeah.

The powder that get everyone gets from the same place, but you put a different sticker

on it.

I think I've been impressed specifically with Nick, how he evolved from like, you know,

I'll be straight, like a meathead jock lifter to like one, a content creator at like an

elite level from the storytelling.

And I think he's just his physical fitness and is really well rounded.

So well rounded, man.

Who on earth can weigh 195 pound and, you know, squat 500 pounds and run a three hour

marathon.

It's so interesting.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of good YouTubers out there, man.

It's just unbelievable how much great content is being created.

What do you like?

We'll wrap up with that.

Who do you like?

Uh, let's look at my homepage.

So obviously, no, okay, again, Colin and Samir are studs.

I love Colin Samir.

Oh dude.

You know who's the best Andrew Callahan channel five.

He was the all gas.

No breaks.

Wait, what?

Oh, he is.

Dude.

Watch the chat bake.

Channel five with Andrew Callahan, uh, watch the, um, watch the pickup artist boot camp

or check.

Oh yeah.

This guy, he used to be part of like a business that he bailed on.

He was, I think for vice or something like that.

All gas.

No breaks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's sick.

Colin and Samir are sick on, on just specifically on creators.

Um, I like watching, dude, my weird freaky fetish lately is just, I love watching like

outdoor survival.

Yeah.

Same.

Which ones?

Uh, who's the guy in Ohio, Dave Canterbury.

So watch Dave Canterbury.

I'm just writing all these down.

Dave Canterbury.

Yeah.

Dave Canterbury.

Architectural digest is gangster.

I love seeing like celebrity homes.

Do you like primitive technologies?

Uh, I think I've seen him.

I think I, I'm pretty aggressive on unsubscribing for some reason I unsubscribe from them.

Dude, I'm looking at Dave Canterbury.

He looks amazing.

This is exactly how I want my guys to look.

Well, have you watched the show alone?

No.

Oh.

Oh, on Hulu?

Yes.

Were there out like, have you met like the guy that looks like a, like he, like he's

wearing like bare skin around.

He looks like a Native American, the white dude, but he's like, I actually don't know

where he is.

And then there's another guy who was in the caves of Missouri.

Uh, there's a bunch of weird ass people in there, but dude, it's epic.

So I definitely would recommend alone.

So I like all the survival stuff from that.

I watched a lot of, dude, this is the weirdest one.

I watched a lot of squash videos.

I probably watched like, like it's on right now.

Squash this while you're talking to me, Sam, I have it on in the background.

Like hydraulic hydraulic press, no squash, like the game, like the British Gabe.

Why are you watching that?

I just leave it on.

It's just like white noise.

I put on the background.

So I watched a lot of that on YouTube.

That's kind of a lot of, that's the main things like outdoor survival, architecture,

of course, Neville and, uh, that's about it.

All right.

Well, Ben, what do we think?

What are you going to say?

Well, I'll tell you some, I'll tell you another good book I read, man.

I'll tell a weird one.

Dude, I've been reading all crime books.

So like, like, like the real murder mystery.

Well, yeah, I like that, but like, I just like one on 9 11, um, another one, what's

the favorite book this year?

Favorite book this year.

Okay.

You're going to like this one because you do this.

It's called travels with Charlie in search of America, John Steinbeck wrote it in 1930

and John Steinbeck, you know, famous author.

And he was like, you know, I live in Cape Cod and I'm rich now.

I'm in my sixties.

I've been reading, writing about middle America for the past 50 years and I'm so out of touch

right now.

And he just drives his, uh, pickup truck around America and just talks to people and writes

about it.

And it's amazing.

Do you know who Lieutenant Dan is?

And, um, Forrest Gump, yeah, he's the narrator of the audio book.

So that's a good one.

And then empire of the summer moon.

You'd like that one.

Oh, I heard that one.

The Comanche Indians, um, and they're, they're just nutty.

Like the Texans were evil and the Indians were evil to each other.

The Indians and the, uh, uh, Texans were just like, it's about how they just destroy each

other.

And then finally the operator, which is basically the guy who killed bin Laden.

And he like tells the story of finding bin Laden and that was really good.

Some of these military books were kind of weak.

No man, that one was pretty spectacular.

Yeah.

He talks about like finding a, he goes in depth about hunting down bin Laden and, and

shooting him in the head.

Like it's intense.

All right.

A few questions here.

One, do you get books from the library at all?

No, but either you or Neville have been bragging about how amazing it is.

Dude, I'm a huge library guy.

There's a Chrome extension called library.

Uh, it's called library extension that'll show you if you can get digital or audio

books for free.

And it shows you when you go to Amazon.

So you just put an Austin library.

Dude, I use all the time.

How do they make money?

I just donated.

I don't know how they actually make money.

Okay.

But thank you for those books, dude.

Yeah.

Library extension.

You just add the Austin library.

Uh, one book I read recently, dude, that is so good.

I think you really enjoy it.

It's called free country.

It's two guys in Europe who backpack, who try to go from the bottom of UK to the top

of UK biking and they just start in their underwear.

That's all they start with.

Uh-huh.

Is it amazing?

Wow.

What?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they start at the bottom of the UK in their underwear.

That's it.

And they have to get to the top of UK on bike in three weeks.

It's really good.

It got like crazy good reviews.

Audio book or download?

Or audio book or normal?

I think the audio book is good, dude.

All right.

I think I got it at the library for free.

Oh, and it's on Kindle unlimited.

It's free on Kindle.

Dude, hell yeah.

All right.

I'm, I'm going to do that.

Any other ones?

Uh, that one was awesome.

I really enjoyed that.

I didn't know if you wanted more.

Yeah.

Dude, we're reading the same travel stuff.

So I'll give you another one then.

Um, little golden America in the 1930s to Russian journalists from the USSR were welcomed

into America and they just traveled for, uh, four months are all over America.

And they're like, you know, it's pretty crazy in America.

And they just like, you just explained from their perspective what America is about.

They're like in America, everyone's so optimistic.

For example, we met these guys.

That's cool.

And it's, no one knows about it in America, but it's one of the most popular books in

Russia.

In Russia, you book read you, uh, uh, what else, oh, there's some other good ones.

You read about the, dude, you know, Ryan Holiday's book list is really good.

Uh, his email list, his email list, he just recommends books.

I don't know how he, he consumes so much.

It's like 10.

It's like 10 a month.

How it, there's no way he, he does an audio book.

No, I think he reads, he's probably like, it has to be paper.

And if it's not this like certain density of organic paper, I won't read it.

He once said it, if you're not taking notes, then you're not reading effectively.

I think that's true.

Yeah.

But that's like a, I mean, I'm not going to take notes on like killing up bin Laden.

I don't think, but most of the books on Kindle or physical, I either highlight and then I'll

reread them.

Yeah.

But dude, if I'm just listening to like, uh, a book like about these guys walking around

their underwear, trying to like get from place to place, I'm not going to like, you

know, or like fight club, I'm not going to like write notes.

Any other ones?

Um, dude, Trevor Noah's book.

I was like, yeah, I don't care about that guy.

Everyone talks about that book.

It's, it's, it's just a really well written book.

It's like, well it's like David Goggins book.

I'm like, all right, David, you're going to yell at me.

You're really hardcore.

I get it.

You could do pushups or pullups.

That's great.

His book, if you haven't read David's like everyone talked about it.

It's honestly a phenomenal one.

It's very well written and two, it's just a great story.

The audio book is cool too.

Yeah.

And the Wright brothers, I got that.

Oh, I read that one recently.

Amazing.

That was awesome.

I drove to Dayton, Ohio after I read it because it was so good.

Oh, that's good.

Did you read million little pieces?

No, what's that one?

I actually think you'll like that one.

It's about drug addiction.

No, but it's a true story.

That's the crazy part.

Okay.

I really enjoyed that.

These are just ones from this year.

All right.

I'm going to read it.

Wait.

I think this guy, James Frey, million little pieces, didn't he, isn't he famous for a bunch

of stuff?

Yeah.

He actually wrote a few other books and then there's some like drama about him.

Oh, they say that he lied about his book.

My, yeah, apparently he, it's made up.

There's debate about that.

So it seems like for the most part, a lot of it is not made up and there's just a few

pieces that are.

Yeah.

I remember this because he went on Oprah years and years ago and there was this big controversy.

Okay.

I'll read it.

So she talks shit on him and then she actually apologized, I believe, because I got you after

you read the book.

You're like, is this real or not real?

I can't believe it.

That's how crazy it is.

Yeah.

All right.

I'm going to read it.

This is good.

This is the best part.

I'm going to read all these things.

I mean, I, I could, I, I try to walk a lot.

So I listened to all these audio books.

So I'm going to, I'm going to download this one.

A million little pieces.

I'm going to get the guys doing the underwear thing and I already installed the library

extension.

Bro.

Game over.

This little golden America.

Do they have an audio book or it's just paperback?

You can do a paperback or you can, there's free PDFs online.

Did you see the description of it?

It's interesting.

There's like no reviews of it.

But in the first page, they go, we translated this into Russia and yet no one or into English

and yet no one in America knows about this.

However, in Russia, everyone reads this book in schools like this is like the kids summer

reading for schools.

It's like very, very, very popular.

You see it?

Yeah.

How did you hear about this?

Goodreads recommended it to me when I was reading the in search of America, the John

Steinbeck book.

I love that.

That was one of the best.

Like I, it was like, I got addicted to that.

It randomly popped up on things recommended and it had five out of five reviews, five

out of five stars on, on Goodreads and it had like 3000 reviews.

But when I Googled it, I couldn't find a thing about it.

So I was like, this is kind of intriguing.

Did you look at it on Goodreads?

I did not.

It's so funny.

Goodreads.

I saw someone talk about this.

Maybe it was you.

It was like the site that hasn't been updated from like 1960, but it's still dope.

It's still like a great, just like there's nothing better yet.

It's badass.

Uh, the guy who started it spoke at hustle con his name's Otis Chandler and his grandpa

started the LA times and Otis sold to Amazon for like a billion dollars.

I think either.

I think it was a billion or a hundred million, but he sold it to him like 10 years ago or

something like that.

So we just knocked it out the park.

Do you ever, you ever blown away by like how much awesome books are out there that we

don't even know of?

Like this book existed.

I never even fucking heard of it and it's got it on the reviews and I'm like, I did not

know that.

Yeah.

And I've always thought I want to read all this, but then, you know, I started thinking

one time I, I listened to like thinking real rich on audiobook and I loved the narrator

and I was like, I want to remember those narrators or the, the audio guy.

I want to remember his voice because he's so good.

And I looked at what else he had done and he's read like a thousand self-help books.

And I'm like, wait a minute.

You've read all these and you're still fucking making 50 bucks an hour read these damn books.

What the hell man?

This is not effective.

And so after that, I, I almost quit reading business book or self-development books entirely.

Yeah.

It was just boring.

I'd rather read like biographies or like I'm reading this book, this running book right

now out of thin air.

You're the best.

Right?

I just started.

It's really interesting.

I'm liking like, I guess outdoor activity books.

Well, out of thin air, that's not, that's a different one.

Wait.

Out of thin air.

Oh, you're thinking of the one about the guy in Alaska who, what's out of thin air?

Oh, it's about the Kenya.

Yeah.

This guy like goes and runs with Kenyans.

Yeah.

We're thinking of into thin air, the John cracker one, which is also awesome.

But okay.

Someone gifted me this out of thin air book and I wasn't sure if it was that good.

Is it amazing?

Yeah.

So far, pretty interesting.

I mean, I'd go read free country.

That one is like, I didn't want to read it because I didn't want it to be over.

All right.

I'll read it.

All right.

I got a rock.

I feel like I can rule the world.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.