Between Two Beers Podcast: Morgan Penn: Let's talk about sex

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Auf diesem Episode zwischen zwei Bären, wir reden mit Morgan Penn.

Morgan ist ein Symmatik-Sexologin und war der Star der wilden popularen Podcast,

der Trainee-Sexologin, und hat nur ihre Chartoppe neu eröffnet, die Sex.Life.

Nach einer 15-Jährigen-Karriere in Radio,

hat Morgan das Transitions- und Sexologin im Jahr 2019 gemacht.

Und es ist ein ziemlich interessantes Reisen.

Sein Job ist jetzt, um die Menschen die Empowerung zu finden,

um ihre Körper- und Sexualität zu verbinden.

Und um die Menschen mit ihnen selbst und anderen zu sein.

Wie ihr euch beobachtet habt, ist das nicht ein gutes Video, um die Kinder zu hören.

Es wird ziemlich grafisch in Patschern und verabschiedet.

Wir reden über den kulturellen Rippel-Affekt von Morgan's Breakout-Podcast,

warum sie von einer Senioredeo-Karriere weggekommen ist,

Sex-Avice für Menschen, Genital-Namen, die Rolle des Schämen-Sex,

Dating als Sexologin, Mythbusting, Squirting, ihr neue Podcast und so viel mehr.

Morgan ist ein Top-Tier-Gest, Fun, Authentik-Open und mit so viel guten Knowledge zu sharen.

Wir both love this one, and if you do too,

make sure you check out her epic new podcast, Sex.Life.

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Enjoy!

Morgan Penn, welcome to Between Two Beers.

God, that sounds good, doesn't it?

How good, how good.

Hey, we exchanged a few fun voice notes earlier today about linking up tonight.

And you said you were coming straight from a pussy portal.

I did.

And on the drive up, Shay and I were discussing what we thought a pussy portal was.

So my thinking was you talking to a group of women to empower them on the use of the pussy.

But Shay thought, what did you think, Shay?

I portal as like a transformational situation.

So I thought you might be one-on-one with a client,

hands-on showing them how the pussy can transform as a shapeshifter.

As I've heard you describe the pussy as a shapeshifter before.

Yes, Shay, miss, you win.

Because that's exactly what I was doing.

Wow!

Tim, that is amazing!

You're so happy. That is amazing.

I was hands-on, hands-in for three hours.

Wow.

Yeah, it's a long time to be inside someone, actually.

Yeah, and my throwaway line when we were throwing voice notes back and forth,

is that I cancelled the pussy portal appointment to be here.

I just want to be very clear to the two of you that that's not the case.

Oh, thanks, Shay.

That's not the case.

So I was confused.

Were you talking about that you had a pussy or that you were with another pussy?

It was just a gag.

I didn't put too much thought into it other than I didn't know what a pussy portal was.

Right.

And was just making like conversations.

In a three-hour session in a pussy portal, is that a standard sort of, what day are we?

Wednesday afternoon?

Hump day, of course, yes.

It is one of my services that I offer, which is a Yoni Mapping.

And I will do probably four of those a week.

And yeah, it's at least a three-hour session.

That's about the amount of time it takes for the body to unravel and to open

and the nervous system to downregulate.

And for a client to be educated on their body and map their genitals.

That sounds very interesting.

And it leads me into where we want to start.

Really nicely.

Yeah, really nicely.

Because Shay and I have been on a bit of a journey over the last week.

So we pride ourselves on the research we put into episodes and learning about our guests.

And we've actually both written down three things we've learned about sex and about intimacy.

And I want to read them out and sort of run them by you.

Yes, I'd love to hear this.

Okay, so the first one is, listen to a lot about the Trainee Sexologist Podcast.

And I want to talk about that a little bit later.

But there's one episode in particular, which kind of blew my mind and opened my mind.

And that was with Jay Reef.

Oh yeah.

When he, because for me, Jay, I don't know him at all.

I've never spoken to him, never met him.

I know him as a bloke bloke.

He's on the rock.

He rides a motorbike.

And the way he spoke about the intimacy with his wife and doing butt stuff and having sex all the time and sex toys.

And just the comfortableness and the way he spoke about communication was just incredibly eye-opening and I guess a little bit inspiring.

Did you get a ton of feedback on that episode?

Yeah, it was so refreshing.

As you said, to have like a man sit there in his power, unashamedly declaring what he does in the bedroom.

And so many people, I think it gave people permission to try different things.

And you know, unfortunately, but play, especially for men, is still quite taboo.

And I think there is like an internalized homophobia around that.

That's a big piece of why people don't.

But, I mean, a few of the things Jay said about that is like, you're missing out.

Like, that's a whole other pleasure land, you know, if you're not going there.

Yeah, I was so grateful for his open-hearted share on that episode.

It was empowering.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah, the confidence he spoke with.

Coming into a conversation like this, it can, I think the natural, I don't know, it's unnatural for me and Shay to be talking about sex in public.

Like, perhaps with most things.

But after listening to him and listening to some of your talks, I want to be comfortable with it.

And I'd love to go in deep in this conversation.

Yeah, amazing.

So yeah, the other one was, what is a yoni?

So one of my wife's friends said, oh, you'll be talking about yoni.

So what is a yoni?

And I found out is the womb, the source, the female organ of generation.

So yeah, I learned about the yoni.

And the other one is what is somatic sexologist.

So when we talked about getting you on the show, I didn't really know what that title was.

Somatic means to work with the body.

You help vulva owners build confidence on how to navigate their bodies better so they can have mind-blowing sex with themselves or others.

So I know what these things are.

There's plenty more to go through, but Shay, what did you learn?

So three months into a new relationship, hopefully I don't time stand or curse that relationship,

but communication in sex and new sexual partners and how important that is.

To Stevie's point as well, I think it kind of made me reflect on where we've been in the first three months,

where I'd like us to go and how important normalising that conversation is

and maybe not necessarily just having it in the bedroom, making it part of everyday comms.

So that was a really cool takeaway.

I need to read vaginismus.

I didn't know what that was.

It sounds horrific.

I know.

Well, it kind of sounds like Christmas for the vagina, but it's so not.

It's kind of the opposite, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Which is closing of the vagina so that nothing can go in.

Yeah, it's a contraction of the pelvic floor muscles, so the vaginal canal.

It just shuts up sharp and sometimes you can still get things in there with force,

which we don't want to be doing, but yeah, there can be extreme pain

and sometimes people will describe it as like hitting a brick wall.

Stabbing panes.

And yeah, you can't get a tampon, a finger, a penis, a sex-troy, anything inside.

Yeah.

Yeah, which is like, again, I think kind of the source of comedy in a way sometimes

like an everyday talk about how tight someone is and how much it's actually a genuine issue.

And I think that was one of the takeaways as well as normalising the conversations

and actually understanding the body situation behind those symptoms.

Not just that, but everything that's across it as well,

like across the whole spectrum of things, which is really, really important work.

That's such a great thing, actually, because yeah, it feels like the world is obsessed

with like tight posses, you know.

And actually when I'm working daily with people that have got hypotonic pelvic floor muscles

that are creating so much pain in a place that should be filled with pleasure,

it is the worst thing ever.

And that's when you realise like, oh my god, we don't need these tight posses.

Like they should be soft and malleable, like they're designed to push babies out, you know.

Shape shifters.

Shape shifters, you got it.

So yeah, it's such a great conversation.

I don't know how willing you men would be open to talking about this,

but like the majority of women, I'm looking at percentages here, like 40%,

you know, I have experienced pain during sex.

And I don't know if you've been with vulva owners that have like,

had pain during sex before, ever encountered that?

Not that it's been spoken about openly, if it was.

Yeah, which is, again, thought provoking stuff to kind of think about, right,

that people suffer in silence sometimes as well,

for fear of what the repercussions might be.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And the third, can I say my third thing?

Yeah, sure.

Or do you want to jump in on the...

No, no, yeah, I'll come to the party.

I'm a vulva owner that's experienced pain.

And I think, again, only, I've got a lot of learning to do and work to do,

but when that happened, I didn't think too much of it.

I thought it was just, okay, that's just for here and now, that's unfortunate,

but I didn't, it wasn't like I was thinking about the pain afterwards, you know?

Now, now I am.

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing, it gets quite normalized,

like pain, like in that area, you know,

because there's period pain and there's birth that are pains, you know,

but actually sex, there shouldn't be pain.

So it's common, yes, normal, no.

My third one is flipping from pain to pleasure,

which was I didn't realize how long the clitoris was.

I thought it was just the button at the top of the labial hood.

And apparently, it goes far deeper than that.

Sure does, it's got little legs that take it all the way down to the vaginal opening.

Yeah, so she's quite, she's quite long, she's quite big.

And she has been mis-sized in all textbooks for, like, the beginning of time.

So it's the beginning of time, taken in and out of medical textbooks.

And the thing is that those legs are also bits that can have pleasure.

So those legs sit on the outer labia,

which on the vulva, you know, quite often gets not much love in,

when we're working with, like, waking up that whole area.

So, yeah, if you are stimulating the outer labia,

you are indirectly touching the clitoris.

Good knowledge, good knowledge.

That ties us quite nicely into a chat about the Trainee Sexologist pod,

because I didn't listen to this when it was broadcasted a couple of years ago.

But I listened to a lot of the episodes over the last week.

And when you listen to it like that,

and you're, the journey is happening in the space of, you know, a couple of days,

the evolution of your journey, Sharon's, your mums,

like, from that first episode to the end of the second season, was quite incredible.

And that first episode, man, like talking about the clitoris,

you explaining to your mum, was it, where, what the clitoris is,

or the size of it, or something like that.

Yeah.

And her authenticity and openness of talking about, you know,

looking at herself in the mirror, and the way that you spoke so openly,

and Sharon sort of described herself as quite prudish in the start,

and by the end, she was, like, right there with you.

Totally.

Can you talk to us about the journey of the podcast,

and where it started, and where it got to?

Yeah.

It's so interesting hearing you talk about it, you know,

because part of me feels like that was so long ago

and such a different version of myself as well.

So what I do love about it is that it has captured me in time.

And it was a very vulnerable space to be in.

Like, I had given up radio something I'd been in

for pretty much my whole working life,

to do something that my heart was just being pulled to.

And, um, yeah, I think there's a part of me that's like,

I cannot believe I told the world all that stuff that I was doing.

You know, like,

but I just, I just feel like there's so much power

in people sharing their truth,

and it just takes away the Fakima,

the shame about the stuff that we really keep in the shadows, you know?

And it's the stuff that we feel like we should hide

that has normally got the most power.

And so, yeah, it was just amazing,

as I was learning to be documenting what I was doing

and going through by sharing that with Sharon,

who's, you know, one of my best friends,

and then also the world,

because the feedback that I was getting was so validating

in times when I, you know, was like,

I don't want to put my finger in another asshole, you know?

Literally, right? This is not a figure of speech.

Oh, no.

Just for clarity for people that might not be aware of it.

You were literally hands-on training at the same time, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

I learned every inch of the body,

and I had to be, have my body on the line as well,

because I had to know exactly what my clients would feel.

And when people were coming back saying,

oh, my God, like, that's made such a difference to me,

or I love that, or that would make me go,

well, this is why I am actually doing it.

So I'm going to keep going, and I'm going to keep sharing.

And, yeah, it was a cool thing to do, I think.

And I think, two or three years ago in New Zealand,

that was quite groundbreaking in terms of podcasts

that came out, so that was fun as well.

Yeah, the snowball effect of it,

because you come up with this idea, you got your best mate,

it seemed like the chemistry is working well,

and then it gets released out into the world,

and you're so open, like you say,

like stuff, I don't know, if you would do the same again now.

But it catches fire, right?

Was it in the first few episodes that it got this huge following,

or did it take a while for it to build?

No, it was pretty instant, I think.

I don't even know why or how,

but I think it was because it was so refreshing to people,

they hadn't really heard anything like this.

And it was literally like word of mouth,

and like groups of women.

I would get hundreds of followers on a Friday night,

so obviously the gals were sitting around with their chardonnay

and talking about this podcast.

And then, yeah, it just had this kind of ripple effect,

especially for women, of going, oh my god,

there's someone talking about different ways of having sex,

doing sex, communicating, being different.

Yeah, it was crazy.

Yeah, it was, different and authentic.

I can't imagine what the DMs,

from women asking for advice,

was that almost a part-time job, getting back to people?

Yeah, it still is.

I think because I show up pretty authentically,

and on my Instagram I really share what's going on

in my life as well,

people feel like I'm approachable,

and I genuinely care,

and because of how I've shared so intimately

that there's nothing off the table,

and so people just like slip into the DMs,

like fully telling me their whole story,

or symptoms, or what's going on,

and just asking for help.

And it's been a boundary piece for me,

working out how to protect myself online,

what's appropriate, what's not,

capacity for what haven't I,

but I've just, the reason I do this work

is because I want to help people, so it's really hard,

but I do have a section on my website

which is currently not working,

which is Ask a Sexologist,

so that's normally where I refer people to,

where they can then write out their question properly,

pay me for it,

and then it's like a clean transaction.

Mate, like, it's actually,

weirdly, you've taken me back to a moment last week

and I've shared about a completely different topic,

but that whole idea of sharing some of the icky parts,

or the parts that aren't spoken about it,

like you said in The Dark Lands,

is a great kind of description of it is,

and how liberating that can be,

when it is validated.

I can imagine there were times during that pod

where you switched off the microphones, called it a night,

got home and went, oh fuck,

did I really talk about that,

and I'm really gonna really,

were there any times where you went,

actually, I'm gonna take that bit out,

because I'm not prepared to share that?

I don't think so.

Awesome.

I don't think so,

yeah, I definitely had vulnerability hangovers sometimes,

but I have got a great therapist,

who I share everything with,

and process things through,

so yeah, just everything felt good,

and safe, and right to put out into the world.

And even on Reflection,

I haven't listened to that podcast in a couple of years now,

but I just think it's like a beauty in its own.

I don't think you could take anything out of that.

It is what it is.

It's weird and wild, and it's great.

But it's everyday language as well.

Like the way that you use terminology,

it's not overly medical.

It's spoken in a way that is digestible,

and that people probably use in their everyday conversations

in the safety of a Prado,

driving up from Hamilton to Auckland.

That's really important for me.

I don't want to whip out all sorts of jargon,

but it's almost like bioavailability.

People have to be able to absorb it.

We need to be able to just chat,

and have that normal language,

so that it feels like there's nothing,

that people can't understand.

There's such a distance sometimes for people anyways,

to get to sex, to talk about sex.

If there's language,

that will just add another barrier.

That's what I personally think.

The end user, you're going,

okay, I know exactly what she's talking about.

I know exactly those feelings.

I know exactly that conversation,

and how hard it might be to have with a partner.

Yeah, thank you.

Do you feel like the pod had wide enough reach,

that it actually changed some of the dynamic

of society around opinions,

and the way we talk about sex?

And I think about that first episode,

with your mum on the fence,

about whether or not it's a good thing,

how she was at the end.

And I think there was a throwaway comment

in one of the episodes about,

it was a record year for sex toys sales

in New Zealand or something.

Do you think that that movement

was big enough through that pod,

to reshape those views?

I do.

It almost feels a bit like my ego

was wanting to go absolutely.

And then the other part of the humble Morgan's like,

oh god, I'm not sure.

I think it's a shift that happened.

And I really feel that because of the amount of stories

that came through from followers saying,

oh me, my partner, listen,

we can't wait weekly for that episode to come out.

We eat dinner together and we listen.

It became a ritual.

So I know that it wasn't just a woman

or a certain age bracket.

And yeah, I think the sex toy,

I mean, they did.

That totally has gone through the roof

in the last few years.

Extrem neutralized.

Yeah, I do, I do think so.

Normalization of sex toys,

again, back to Jareave.

Ich fühle, our friend group

has got quite an open

and honest communication

with each other around sex.

Failed with humour though.

And often it's after a few drinks.

We have this 12 pubs of Christmas each year we get together

and we have an agenda in each item.

Die Pubs, die wir haben, sind ein Sexual-Jährige-Revue, und wir sprechen alle über das Gute und das Beste, die wir haben in unserem sechsten Jahr.

Aber sechs Toys kommen nicht wirklich aus. Ich habe keine Gespräche mit meinen Freunden über sechs Toys.

Ich habe keine Gespräche mit einem Fleischleit, der nicht in einem humorous Weg gesagt hat.

Aber wenn ich nach Jay gehört habe, habe ich gesagt, vielleicht ist das die Sache.

Ja, das habe ich in deine Toys gebracht, weil ich das normalisieren möchte.

Wir haben noch ein paar Krawegs, Morgan hat uns gebracht. Was sind Krawegs?

Ein Masturbating-Age.

Es ist so wie ein kleines Kleid.

So, wenn du die Ecke öffnest, dann popst du aus.

Ich würde es mir wünschen, dass es ein bisschen Lube gibt.

Ja, ich sehe, dass es ein bisschen Lube gibt.

Ist das Spirmicidal?

Nein.

Nein.

Nein, wir benutzen das nicht.

Wir sind nicht in das Leben.

Aber ja, es ist vor allem über die Spitze der Penis.

Aber das ist, wo die meisten unserer Nervenden sind.

Ja, und dann...

Freunulum oder so, oder?

Freunulum, ja, das ist das.

Schau mal, ich habe ein paar Terms.

Ja, du weißt nicht, was ich meine.

Das ist das Helmet für jedes Langes.

Das Bando.

Das Unterseid des Helmets.

Ja, das ist das, was wir unter uns haben.

Und hier.

Wir haben viele Freunulums.

Die Frauen haben ein Freunulum auf ihrem Volver.

Ja, ich wusste nicht.

Ja.

Wir werden gleich wieder nach dieser Sorge.

Wir sprechen über ein paar mehr sexuellen Themen.

In der zweiten Halbzeit.

Aber wir haben inzwischen ein Weg,

unsere Gäste zu der Audienste zu introduzieren.

Wir haben ein paar Freunde, Familie und Kollegen

mit ein paar kleinen Bittes von Info,

um das Bild von wer du bist und wie du heute getroffen bist.

Wir haben diese Linien, und ich bin nicht wirklich sicher,

wo sie gehen.

Aber wir haben es gesagt,

sie könnten gute Gespräche sein.

So, Morgan, was ist deine Absicht mit Camels?

Ich meine, mein favorites Tier,

sie sind so majestisch und schön und humpig.

Und ich rote einen, als ich in Ägypten war.

Und das ist, was mich liebte,

weil ich diese große Biste zwischen meinen Lägen hatte.

Und ich musste sie aufhüpfen.

Und dann die Power, wie du siehst,

und die Pyramide passen.

Ich dachte, was ist dieser kleine Keywee Gau doing,

auf dem seinen Namen Richard?

Der Camel.

Und ich liebe ihn.

Die haben Fehler, wenn man sie nicht angeschaut untenen.

Sie sind so schnell,

die sind dann aber auch sehr langsam zu tun.

Ja, und sie sehen einfach jak blieb aus.

Sie sehen so schnell aus.

Aber das ist toll.

Ich habe ein demonstrate Leben für sie.

Hin Display momentan kann ich sie thousandern.

Ich sehe auch, dass der Camel zutreibende resultiere.

Wenn die Menschen voll der через.

Rogers und Gäste alpha.

und die Nativität-Szene um den Christmastag?

Ja, Smart Move.

Okay, und das letzte, was wir aufhören,

ist, sagen wir uns,

die former Arbeitskollegen von Trollen

auf Snapchat, als sie Bananen essen.

Ist das genau was es so ist?

Oh Gott, ja, es ist genau das.

Es ist genau das.

Ich habe einfach so eine

Faszination mit,

ich weiß nicht,

siehst du die Leute in der Welt

oder einfach auf Bananen chompen,

es ist so, dass es nichts mehr gibt.

Ich glaube so, ich habe nicht wirklich

zu viel Beziehung zu Bananen-Eating-Habit.

Ich glaube, es ist so,

es ist so, dass es sich

ihre eigene Lunchbox hat.

Du weißt, es ist so leicht,

aber ich sehe Leute everywhere,

wie auf der Strecke,

oder durch die Straße,

und diese große Dinge,

und es ist so normal.

Aber ich bin so...

Es ist sehr fällig.

Es ist so fällig.

Ja.

Und wie ich in einem

Office mit diesem Mann,

der auf einem Montag

eine große Menge Bananen hat,

und es auf den Tisch putzt,

und dann würde er sie einfach essen.

Wie zwei oder drei Tage.

Und ich konnte es nicht glauben.

Und also startete ich,

filmen ihn.

Und es wurde diese ganze Kult

folgen,

um diesen Mann zu folgen.

Und dann hat er mich auf den Kopf

gemacht, und er würde es

versuchen, es in private zu essen.

Und dann wird er nach unten

oder in einem anderen Raum

und dann würde die Leute mir die Hände geben.

Oh, die haben in die Blasen gegangen.

Und ich habe gesagt,

Great, thank you,

I'll get a text message

in the kitchen.

Holy shit, yes,

I'm on it, I'm on it.

Und er würde es wegrunnen,

und ich würde ihn schießen,

und er würde die Bananen

zuvor schießen,

um es aus dem Mund zu beweisen.

Es ist so funny,

denn ich konnte nicht das jetzt tun,

wie mein Leben so stiebt und verholt.

Ich kann nicht auf die Leute spieren.

Ich war so wie der Master

auf die Leute zu spieren.

Und ich war so wie der Bananenwatch,

Bananenratze und GLS.

Was?

Okay, was sind das?

Bananenratze,

wie Paparazzi.

Ja, Bananenratze.

Okay, all right.

Ja.

Ist das gut?

Don't you think that's right?

Ja, ja,

I got it straight away.

I'm a little slower on the update.

Bananenwatch makes sense.

Ja, ja.

Like Baywatch.

Ja, exactly.

Buffer Bananas, ja.

The third one, I'm not sure.

Ja, so,

you know that real cult classic

New Zealand Video Clip of

Go back to the commune, you fucking hippie.

Oh, shut up, you grape-looking slut.

I've missed that all together.

The grape-looking slut.

You don't know the grape look.

I don't know.

I don't know that either.

Oh!

And I feel like I'm pretty good with cultural differences.

Yeah, so do I.

Oh my god, it's so good.

There's like a protest happening outside of the Beehive.

And there's these like women protesting,

like really hearty,

and there's a guy that walks along that goes,

oh, go back to the commune, you fucking hippies.

And then they say, oh, you shut up, you shut up.

And he goes, shut up, you grape-looking slut.

Because she's like,

she's a bigger woman wearing purples.

Okay, we missed this all together.

It's horrific, but it's so funny.

I mean, this was probably like 10 years ago.

Okay, this is gonna make a great clip for socials.

Two of us like not knowing this at all.

Ja, so then once I saw it,

I was like, oh my god, this is so good.

And because I'm all about reclaiming that word slut,

you know, slut-shaming is so big.

But I think there's a room.

We should celebrate the slut, you know,

there is definitely room for the slut.

And so, yeah, anybody that was in purple,

I'd get them, I would get them.

And what was the outlet, Snapchat was the outlet?

Yeah, yeah, that was back in the day, you know.

Yeah, when it was big.

Yeah.

Before it was used just for hookups, apparently.

Oh, wouldn't know.

I love that, I love that.

That's giving us a little taster.

There might be some more that come out a bit later.

But I am keen to work through your journey.

And I wanna start with the decision,

cause a 15-year career in radio,

like that's the buildings,

you're starting to really make it in that game.

And you're quite senior at that point.

And then the decision,

and I'm not sure where it ties in with the podcast,

but when was it that you knew in your mind

that you were gonna become a sexologist?

And how long did it take you to actually take that jump?

Hm, yeah.

I think for the last sort of three years being in radio,

I knew that like my sole purpose wasn't being fulfilled.

And so I'd started looking for other things.

I had no idea what that would be.

Like I became a life coach on like spare time,

took like time off work to go and do that study,

come into radio, oh my God, I love radio,

I love wild people and the weirdness and, you know,

but then I was like, I still don't feel fulfilled.

And then I think I started following someone on Instagram

that was talking about their breasts

and just like talking openly about it.

And I was like, what the shit?

Who is this person?

Like this is so good.

And at the same time,

I was having like interesting body things happening for myself.

I started having really heavy periods

and I started going, what the hell's going on?

I went to the doctor, got medications

and then I realized, I'm quite a naturalist.

I don't wanna be pumping my body full of like painkillers

and blood suppressants and shit like that.

So I just went on a journey of discovering my own body

and through that I just realized

how disconnected I was from my body,

how I masturbated was so disconnected

from like a bigger sexual picture.

It was just a tap and gap, go to sleep

and how I was relating with people

wasn't that honoring of my body.

And I just like thought shit,

there is a different way of being in the world

in this capacity as a woman.

And that's what I'm passionate about.

If I can do it with myself and take myself on a journey,

I can do that with others.

And then I was like, okay, so is there a job like this?

And then yeah, I found out that there was

and there's like sexologists

and there's ones that are clinical

that work mainly just with psychology.

And then there are somatic ones who work with the body.

And to me, that just made sense to work with the body

because we have sex with our mind and our body.

Needs to be integrated.

Was it hard to break those past behaviors?

Once you identified them, like, how long did that take?

Or did you try and fail and slip back into old habits?

Or was it quite a linear process

once you set your mind to it?

I still go back there

because the neural pathway is so strong.

You know, like the way that we do something

if we've been doing it for such a long time,

that pathway is so, so strong.

And it's the way of being.

So whilst I even know better

and while I coach clients

how to, through masturbation coaching

and how to have better sex,

sometimes I'm destructive in that realm, you know?

Like, if I've had a real rough day

and I just feel like I just want an orgasm,

I won't touch any other part of my body,

I'll grab a vibrator.

Satisfy a pro, two for no.

That's right, Generation Three.

And I'll just like, husse that baby up

and then tap and get myself.

And I will literally throw

the vibrator across the room afterwards.

Like, ah!

Like, it's done its job and then I'm like, you know.

So, but I feel like shit afterwards

because I haven't honored my body,

I haven't made it a full body experience.

But the process at the start,

once I started, was easy.

Because I was like, oh, this is so good,

this is life changing.

But then I guess like, anything you plateau,

you go back to things,

that's why I'm always trying to evolve in this realm.

Because I'm always trying to make new neural pathways.

And that's how you expand pleasure,

that's how everything gets better, I suppose.

Was there support when you made the decision

to get sex?

Oh, we sort of heard from your mum

and Sharon what their views were.

But your circle of friends, you know,

what did they say about it?

Yeah, they were all about it.

They were just, I guess, not even surprised.

They were, yeah,

they're like, if anybody's gonna do that job, it's you.

Everybody at work would come to me

and tell me their weekend hookup stories

or their, you know, issues they're having

with their partners.

And I was just naturally that person.

I guess I've always been someone

who people can talk to openly without any judgement.

And yeah, so everyone was like, okay,

that's pretty weird, but yep, go you good thing.

So you were an amateur sexologist

beforehand and then went into the pros.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, so I think it was only about a year

before I was like, I'm definitely gonna do that.

Before I left radio to go and study.

So how different is what you do now

from those first two years

that a lot of people might have heard

about on the podcast?

You mentioned before that if you went back,

you might not say some of the things you did

or act some of the ways you did.

Is it very removed from how you were then?

No, not really.

Like, I guess I've just like deepened in my work

and understanding and holding space for people.

My skillsets just gotten better and better.

And I think one thing I have struggled

with the whole way through is like,

there is this Morgan who is really wild and funny

and finds inappropriate things, like the best,

like the best.

And there has to be room for that in my life.

And then there is this other part of me

that is very reverent and strong and clear and professional

and holding it down and fighting for women

and that kind of stuff.

And it's about how do they coexist together?

And so I think now that, well, looking back,

that's still a big part of me.

But I've just gotten older and wiser and better, you know?

It's a little bit how we were thinking

of how to approach the chat,

because it's serious topics and serious subject matter.

But I think it's also delivered with some humor in parts

and appropriate parts, right, as well.

Like, is that how you approach your work?

Yeah.

Oh my God, cause we get so serious about sex.

You know, sometimes you think about like

having sex with someone else and it's like silent

or you don't talk and it's like you're down to business

and it's like the building, the building, the building,

it's done.

Okay, now we can giggle.

You know, if there's giggling in sex,

sometimes we think, oh my God, what's going on?

Or like, you know, and so I think to get people

to dip their toes into the sexual realm

that was still so filled with taboo

when I first started,

humor is the best way through, actually.

And that's a natural piece of me anyway.

So, and I think that makes people feel comfortable.

So it's important.

How often do your conversations in everyday life

just turn into innuendo?

It's really hard, actually.

Look at this all the time.

Yeah, it does, right?

Like, even in the voice notes,

I'll be like, am I reading too much?

We'll just go balls deep into it.

Yeah, yeah.

What angle are you gonna approach this conversation at?

Or are we just gonna go balls deep?

And I'm like, no, Shay, come on, no, come on.

And I was like, is she just laying bread crumbs out

for us to see if we would bite?

And I thought you were, yeah, very good.

Yeah, very, very good.

Very good.

I wasn't going anywhere with that.

It was just an observation.

Our audience skews more mail.

There'll be a lot of people listening

who might be hearing conversations like this

for the first time.

Is there, is there any advice?

Are there main things that men can do better

that are common, you know?

Like, what am I trying to say, Shay?

I don't know, I love how you tiptoeing around it, though.

It's good, just ask your question, man.

No, like, is there,

if you had a list of things for our mail listeners

to know about sex or things they don't know

or things they could get better in,

are they a go-to?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, what are they?

That list is long.

For both, you know what, for everybody, I think, is long.

But if men specifically, I would say the communication piece

could definitely use some work.

And it's around not trying to be the hero

like you know what someone's gonna like, you know?

It's actually about checking in, like,

do you know what you like

or what you would desire in this moment?

Cause I think quite often, you know, some men think,

okay, yeah, what do you like?

And then it's like, oh God, I don't know, like, in general,

or we need to kind of bring it back to like, right now.

Like, what are you desiring in this moment?

What would feel good for you, you know?

And then you can just like start from a place like that.

And then once you start having kind of sexual interactions,

it's not like a free-for-all

that has to keep continuing, like building.

I think it's amazing when communication can be weaved in

and there can be moments of like, you know, do you,

like in this moment, would you like faster, slower, the same?

You know, checking on things like that.

Pressure, would you like more, less, the same?

You know, things like that, is like, so,

it gives a chance for the person to really respond

with a detailed like response, you know?

And then gives you direction

and you want to be able to give the person

that you're interacting with exactly what they want, right?

So if you've come in all like, much so

and you've got this gusto of, I'm a good lover

and I know what I'm doing,

well, actually, you don't really.

So, yeah, kind of normalizing communication

all the way through, I think is hot.

And then slowing down.

People ask me all the time, like, what's the hottest sex tip?

And I'm like, slowing down, baby.

Which is like the most unsexy thing,

but it actually is the best thing.

Like we just huss through all the good parts

and the best parts are actually before

like the penetrative act, if that's where you're heading.

And I hate the word foreplay

because it means that it's like an appetizer, you know?

And the main event in something way better's coming.

I think it should all be a play session, you know?

And each bit can be just as good as the other.

So, making that before part way more expansive

is fun and exciting.

And, you know, that's the thing,

like if it's a man that's with a woman,

like, you know, Volvo owners take like 30 to 40 minutes

to fully engage and have arousal down in there

to get all the erectile network online

to be ready to actually be penetrated.

It's quite a long time, you know?

We've got quite a different like physiology than men,

how that arousal works.

So, yeah, giving time and space and...

When you're talking about communicating,

it can be difficult to have those conversations

with your partner if you're not used to it.

When people come to see you and they're your clients

and maybe it's a woman who's coming to see you

and they know we need to raise communication,

how do they get the man on site?

I imagine that can be difficult to get some men

to open up and meet in the middle with that communication.

Yeah, it is always like a little bit challenging

and I can tell if the man has kind of been pushed to be there.

But, it's quite, all you have to do,

I feel like with men in that situation,

it's just be really curious.

And a lot of men aren't heard in that area.

And so, I just start talking to him

and getting curious about his sex life

and what is he not saying, you know?

And what would he like to actually share

or what would he like to know?

And then once they both realise, like,

oh my God, there's things I don't know

about what my partner might like

or there is actually a whole nother avenue

we could be exploring, then, like, they're in.

They're bored into it.

They want to explore those avenues

and then they realise, like, the only way to know that stuff

is to have vulnerable shares.

And it's actually not that hard once you start, you know?

Like, I really recommend relationship check-ins

that happen once or once a week or fortnightly,

where that is an opportunity to check-in on the sex life,

check-in on the wellbeing of the relationship,

check-in on what you've done well as a team,

how you could support each other better the next week

und in putting sex in there just normalises it.

Schame plays a big part in some of that stuff as well,

like, like, shame towards acts that you enjoy

or things that have happened in the past.

Like, you talked about slut-shaming before as well.

But it's the same on a men's side as well, like,

and you kind of addressed it earlier on

around being embarrassed around butt-play or whatever that is.

Like, it plays a massive part in sex, eh?

Schame, shame in shame itself.

Absolutley.

In butt-play, in butt-play.

Yeah, shame is actually crippling.

It can actually put us in a, like, a freeze state, actually,

and it stops us from suppressing our truth

and takes us back to an older state, really,

because there's been something that has brought that in

that's normally an old thing.

Especially if it's sexually based,

it means that you've probably had a time

where you were feeling arousal in the body

and then it's been interrupted by something

where you've been shamed, like, you might have been caught,

masturbating, or caught playing nurses and doctors

with the neighbors, or something like that.

And that is, like, stuck in a cellular level,

because you were feeling pleasure and arousal in the body

and then all of a sudden such a jolt of shame

that can come over the body, yeah, can really, like, stay there.

So that I've worked with so many people with shame.

How do you work through some of that stuff?

Oh, yeah, well, because I work with the body,

we find where it's alive in the body and what it feels like.

It might feel like a really tight, lower belly.

It might feel like the throat is totally closed over

or fuzzy or whatever, and we just get to know it.

Just bring it into the light.

It's that same thing.

Once you can voice it, can see it, can identify it,

you take away its power.

Yeah, and then it's like small progressive steps,

which is different for everybody

of how that feels to slowly move out of that shame.

We'll be right back after this short break.

Do the people that come and see you, do they fall into categories?

Say a scalar 1 to 10, where one is just traumatic,

don't ever have sex, and 10 is great sex life.

With the majority of them fall sort of five and below,

is it not like people that are sixes and sevens

come and see you for advice on how to improve?

Is it mostly people that are really struggling with the whole concept?

Totally.

I would work into that scale, I would say,

yeah, probably six and below.

I get excited when it's someone on the other end of the scale,

because I'm like, yes, I'm not the ambulance

at the bottom of the hill, we get to have some fun

and really expand.

So yeah, that definitely happens,

but it's way more that people are disconnected from their bodies,

can't journey from their mind into their body.

Yeah, numb, painful sex, erectile dysfunctions.

I don't like that word, erectile difficulties.

Is that part of your work as well,

is like the language around those perceived inadequacies?

Yeah, because things like that matter, right?

Someone told me the other day that they'd gone for a cervical smear

and the nurses said that she had an unfriendly cervix.

I was like, what the fuck does that matter?

What does that even mean?

Like, that is so gnarly

and it really impacted that woman, you know?

And so the language is important, how we talk about it.

Like, that's why I get clients to name their genitals

so they can almost personify them

and have a different kind of entity.

Or like, it's a reclamation of that area if you can name them.

It's language, it's powerful, yeah.

It's fucking fascinating,

I feel like we're getting like a free session here,

which is good and bad.

But it's incredible and we've normalised mental health

and talking about mental health.

And it's not, it ain't weak to speak in those clichés.

And it's almost like we need to do the same

in the sexual health realm as well, right?

To bring that, we need a catchy cliché

for something that we can talk about.

But it's important for mental health as well.

Absolutely, I feel like it would feed hugely into that.

If you're not having a good sex life.

Or one at all for a long time.

If you've gone through a dry spell and you recently entered a new relationship.

Like, that period during the dry spell

is incredibly challenging for you, speaking as a man,

to your masculinity and your sexuality.

Because then you start to dip into pornography in areas like that,

where it's a whole other ballgame in terms of how that impacts on you.

And now we're really opening the door out.

Yeah, talk about it.

Thanks for sharing that.

And was that because you actually had a desire to be having sex with somebody else?

Yeah, totally.

And that just wasn't happening.

Totally, 100%.

And like I can recognise the damage that that did as well.

And trying to unpack and unwind that

and put the genie back in the bottle to a degree.

Yeah.

Like coming through that whole journey.

It's a fucking mind fuck.

So then going into relating with another after that.

Hard, hard, hard.

Like initially.

Yeah.

And I feel like listening to some of your work has helped in that journey of unpacking as well,

even just in a week, about being like, OK, fuck.

Like, that makes sense now.

That makes sense now.

Now I want to go home and have a yarn and talk about some of this stuff,

which is in the dark lands and you don't want to talk about.

And you don't want your mum to listen to this podcast

and have to hear it or your big brother or whatever it is or your sister.

Fuck, for that matter as well.

But like if it helps somebody else, then kind of I'm happy to kind of lay it out on the table.

But yeah, that's really, really interesting areas

and really damaging areas, I think as well.

Yeah, beautiful.

Just a big statement.

Just a big statement without a question.

Yeah.

I guess the question is how damaging is porn?

Yeah, it can be really, really damaging.

The addiction to porn is huge and really crippling for some people.

It's all consuming.

It's like, that's where people are going for their dopamine hit,

feeling like they're connected to watching a fake, well, I mean, it's a real life person,

but it's not, you know, it's like these false connections,

false feeling like you are being attracted, you're attractive or you can do something or yeah.

But then the reality hits that you are just alone in your home

and you're jerking off to a stranger and it's the pandemic and you can't get out.

I know, shit, I feel you.

How am I, yeah, I get it, I get it.

And it's escapism as well, like I see porn being used for that.

And I think what it does is it sets up these unrealistic expectations

then when you go to relate with a warm, blooded human

and about this false sense of what they might like as well

or what would unfold in a sex session

because it is pretty different from the kind of porn that most people are watching.

And we don't give enough credence to actually what's happening subliminally to our minds

in that moment, the conditioning around how to treat a lover, what's normal,

what bodies look like and normal, you know, all that kind of shit.

We know they cut off their labia and...

Yeah, they just get the dudes with the biggest schlongs in as well.

Exactly.

Which, again, if you're an average sized dude,

yeah, like you're looking at that guy for fuck, what the fuck am I going to do here?

There's Mandingos.

Yeah, yeah, exactly right.

Mandingos?

You can't work in the sex industry and not know what a man, a mandingo is.

No, what's a mandingo?

Steve, do you want to take this one?

Well, from what I understand, it's like a variation of a cuckold

where a gentleman can't pleasure his partner.

So he gets a man with a very large member to come in and do the job.

OK.

And their names are Mandingos.

OK.

From what I understand.

Yes.

I love it.

Wow.

Holy Hicke.

Yeah, we're learning.

That's scary.

My question on the porn thing was, you know, when we grew up, porn was harder to access, right?

Like, you might tape a Sky One at sort of 10 o'clock at night or the VHS and play it when you can

or you download some dodgy image from the internet, which would take about 10 minutes to come through.

We had a penthouse with a title cut off out of the Mac alignment.

It should have been sent back to the publisher, but someone's dad owns a dairy and that does circulation.

Yeah, you got it.

Or you threw the saloon doors at the video easy and your mates are betting on who's going to go

and take the DVD back home.

Anyway, but now, click of a button, right?

It's there.

You can be within a porn site in 20 seconds.

Yes.

Have you noticed, or is there any documented societal changes about how accessible porn is now versus

sort of our generation, I guess, when it was harder to get?

I look, this isn't really my area of expertise, but I do know that, yeah, there's lots of studies out there

that are saying that because of the accessibility, that's where the damage is coming in.

It's almost like normalized, you know, there's no shame in watching porn anymore.

It's like, that is what it is.

And I was even on a locals page the other day and someone took a screenshot of their computer

and like one of the tabs was Red Tube.

And everyone was like, good one, Steve.

And everyone, he's like, I don't care.

I told you to crop that up.

I'm sorry that I used your name.

I've been a Red Tube in years.

But yeah, I think it's just getting more and more prevalent.

And I think what's scary is the whole AI porn that's coming through as well.

Deep fakes.

Yeah, terrifying.

It's a whole other thing to navigate.

You know, like porn has been, and you might have heard this on my podcast as well,

is that there was this whole, I think it was in Hastings or around Napier area

where there was all this like weird little group of children, intermediate,

they were all circulating porn.

They'd had some kind of link to something.

And so they're like 11 or 12 and they started having sex,

but not penetrative vaginal sex or having anal sex.

And it was like doing internal damage to young girls.

And they had to be like community meetings with counsellors and nurses and police

and the parents to like try and stamp it out.

It's pretty gnarly.

Yeah, because they didn't know what they were doing.

They were just watching this type of porn that was about butt sex.

I think that's normal.

It's interesting areas as well, because then while you're in kind of porn

and it's not a direct link across,

but sex work as well is being brought into the spotlight,

which can also be used like for a therapeutic basis,

as well as, you know, it's called the world's oldest profession.

But there's also sex work for functional reasons as well, right?

And people reconnecting that maybe don't have a partner to be able to do that with.

Yeah, surrogates.

Surrogates, right, okay.

Yeah, and I think it's really important work.

Yeah, you are a sex worker.

You are helping people.

You'll be referred from like a psychologist, a psychotherapist.

They can do referrals.

And it's about bringing someone back into their sexual selves

through actually performing sexual acts

and engaging with them in that manner.

It's a wild concept, but being a hands-on body worker myself,

I can absolutely see how that would be so healing

and taking the pressure off.

And so many people have got fear around connecting sexually with somebody else

or having trauma.

If that's the first time connecting with someone,

is there a safe place that, you know, your psychologist has recommended you to.

Amazing.

But I think, you know, any kind of sex work is still very valid

and should be supported and protected.

You must have a real feeling of satisfaction in your job.

People coming to you with these traumatic or issues

or this big part of their life, which is so important,

which they're struggling with.

And then you help them to grow

and to become what they're capable of.

But do you feel that?

Do you feel like this is so rewarding, your line of work?

I think sometimes I forget.

You know, I definitely do.

And then I'll receive an email from someone with the gratitude

of really sharing the difference that I've made or breakthroughs,

especially with clients that have got vaginismus

who haven't been able to have sex for their whole adult life

and have only just found out that there is people like me

that can help overcome it.

Having pain-free, pleasurable sex.

Yeah, to me, in moments like that, I feel it.

I get it.

I get how big and important this work is.

But yeah, I guess I get a little bit desensitized to my work as well

and just think, you know, another client, here we go.

But yeah, I guess that's the thing.

So many people show up on my Zoom consultation.

Absolutely nervous, you know,

with these are things I've never told anybody before

and they're willing to divulge it all to me

and hope that I can actually help them.

And so it's a very, you know,

like for me, I don't take that position lightly ever, you know.

And then when we can have big breakthroughs

and I know that there's a difference that's happening.

Like, that's just amazing.

Yeah, that must be special.

Because you've got such a public profile and brand now, I guess.

And I'm not sure how long this has been the case.

When you're in the dating field yourself and, you know, meeting partners,

do they treat you, do some of them treat you differently

because they think you're the sex guru

or does that create any sort of complicated situations?

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely interesting dating

through the years throughout these different times of...

Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of people slip into the DMs

that are hopeful of like something

and I know that they've just got this kind of like image of me

and I posted a lot of photos of like in lingerie

or nude of me because I'm trying to normalise the body,

either in a sexual state or just the body.

I'm trying to give a transmission of just body neutrality, body love.

But I can see how through the lens of somebody

who might be desiring me, that is an invitation.

So, but I, you know, I never like engage in that kind of chat.

But yeah, I don't know.

Honestly, like my sex life has really changed

since I've been doing this study and then doing this as my work

because I used to be quite carefree with my body,

like in terms of sharing it with others

and then I've had like big long-term relationships

and different chunks.

But then, yeah, like ever since I do this work,

it's been tricky for me to find someone

that I deeply connect with

and want to go that deep with.

So, yeah, like the last person I was with

was for like nine months

and luckily like he didn't care all about the Instagram life

or what I shared or didn't expect anything,

you know, on our first date or second date

I made him do like an exercise with me, you know,

to connect in and he was like sitting there

on my bedroom floor going like, oh my god,

this is so weird, you know.

But he was like, I guess I just have to be up for it.

But yeah, I guess, you know, the desire of the body

of like wanting to share with someone else

actually is there, but I know how to really self soothe

with my own self pleasure.

So it's not like I go out there hunting for sex or a partner.

I'm at an age where I really want to nestle down

and have a baby and do that part of my life.

And so, yeah, that person has to really fit into that

and I really understand that I'm an acquired taste

because of what I do and what I share with the world.

And so that person has to be pretty cool.

We'll be right back after this short break.

You talk about self pleasure and self love,

that's more than masturbation, right?

I think people's rudimentary understanding is

it's just jacking it, which isn't the case.

It's a whole wider kind of philosophy.

Yeah, yeah.

It's funny, I was just looking at myself today in the mirror

and going, oh my God, I fuck, I love myself.

I love my body so much.

It's not how I look.

I've just got such a sense of what's happening in my body.

Sometimes I fixate on my lungs and I'm like,

oh, can you even believe there are these two hunker Monkers

in here just going for it without me doing anything?

My autonomic nervous system is just telling them to breathe

and my heart's pumping.

I just was able to walk in here easily.

My cute little toes were attached to my foot that did that.

I wouldn't care how I looked.

I've just got such a deep gratitude and love for my body

that has just rippled out.

And when people are like, oh, self-love, love yourself,

like, oh, it's such a crock of shit, you know.

So it's a whole rah, rah, rah.

Self-love to me is like choosing yourself, you know.

It's staying with yourself when you want to abandon

in the hard times and just watch Netflix.

It's actually doing the work and looking in the mirror

and doing mirror work or like crying

or letting yourself feel things.

And so self-pleasure goes hand in hand with that.

Like, if I've had a real shit day,

I know that I can heal through self-pleasure and self-love

by staying with myself when I want to escape.

And for me, self-pleasure is about the whole body.

And so I will actually set up time and space

and like light incense and candles

and decide and get all of, like a few toys out

and tools that I'm gonna use on myself.

And then I start, you know.

And it's a full body experience

and it might not even get to the genitals, you know.

It's not about, like you say, going for it.

It's about tending to what the body actually wants

in that moment.

And sometimes I just end up there like lying on the floor,

like stroking my forehead, you know.

Like, and that's all I need.

It was a bit of self-soothing.

So, yeah, other times it's like absolutely wild.

That sounds amazing.

And I can see how pure and positive you are

about the state you're in.

I'm just picturing Shae coming to me

and saying, I'm just gonna set aside 30 minutes.

I've got all these processes in place.

I'm gonna go and self-serve.

I've got my flashlight ready to go.

Like, it would take an incredibly strong person

and not that you're announcing that to anyone publicly.

But do other people do that?

Yeah, yeah.

They do, because I tell them to do it.

Yeah.

Because that's part of like masturbation coaching.

Lots of people just don't do that

because they don't know how to.

You know, they think that they have to just like...

Pop on the laptop and go to open a window

and scroll through 20 videos

and then find one and just go.

Exactly.

They get into bed, rub one out, go to sleep.

Yeah.

There is another way.

What?

You know, or do it in the shower or, you know.

And it is about, for a pleasure expansion,

it's about doing things differently.

It's about creating those new neural pathways of pleasure

where your body goes, holy shit.

How much more expansive does this feel

to actually move my body

for five minutes beforehand

and touch my whole body

and get it alive and buzzing.

Sex is a whole body experience,

but we get so genital focused.

But what that actually does

is it just contains it down in that area.

So the orgasms are even like quite short and sharp, explosive.

And there's like so much more pleasure potential there,

especially for men.

I reckon, especially for men.

I think that's the thing I've taken away the most.

I mean, I've been self-pleasuring

the same way for 25 years.

You know, the same thing you did.

And I imagine, speaking on behalf of people,

most people do the same thing.

You've just got your routine and that's how it's done.

So it's not until you have a conversation with someone

like, no, take a longer time, set things up.

You know, where do you stand on?

A concept like semen retention.

Oh, look, it's a little bit happy-dippy for me.

I mean...

This is my Instagram knowledge.

My little sigma male kind of hat on.

Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting concept.

And I think, you know, some people believe

that the ejaculate is the life force.

It's seed. It's like powerful energy.

And there's a part of me that really resonates with that.

And so a lot of men that practice semen retention

is that they're trying to hold on to their life force energy

so that they can orgasm, but they won't ejaculate.

I think ejaculating is really healthy for the body,

for like unclogging the pathways and, you know,

and actually just on that note I'll say,

I don't know if we're going to talk about the prostate,

but prostate touch is so important for that.

Like, if you're massaging the area

and getting good blood flow in there,

like chances of prostate cancer will go down.

Really?

Yeah.

For the gentlemen listening that don't know

where the prostate is, it's located...

In the anus.

In the anus.

So, yeah, it's about second knuckle deep

towards the belly.

Is it dependent on finger length?

Yeah, that's maybe just my little wiener finger.

Those nanohands of yours.

Who told you about them?

No, but no, it's just...

They are nanohands.

Why are they... I heard you're a hand model.

Oh my God, yes, yes, once.

I specifically said no hand close-ups,

but an engagement like a ring store booked me for the ad.

And I was like, this is such a stitch up.

They don't look like nanohands.

Well, they are.

You're going to have to have a look up close.

They're like sun damage, they're spots, they're wrinkly.

Yeah, what is the definition of it?

Okay.

They're wrinkly ears.

Touches rough.

Oh, do you give your consent for me to touch your hand?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, they're smooth ears.

No.

You want to talk about rough skin, it's these elbows,

but I'm trying to hide those,

because I didn't moisturise them today.

You should lube them up.

Use your lube in your masturbator egg.

I don't want to waste that.

I don't want to waste that.

Where were we?

Oh, God.

I did want to go back to something.

The sense of taking time and 30-minute self-pleasuring sessions.

My situation, I've got three young kids fourth on the way.

It's hectic.

There's no, and I know you're going to say you've got to make time for yourself,

but it seems pretty unrealistic in my world for me or my wife to take that time daily

or have many times to fit that in.

What's your advice on people with super busy schedules?

Is it just about prioritising yourself?

Ja, it is, but it is finding those little juicy windows together,

whether or not that is texting each other throughout the day,

when you're apart with something sexy or thinking about each other

or I want to do this to you.

It's about what Jay Reeve was saying in his episode.

It's always about simmering,

keeping that fire kind of burning in some way,

so that when you do have a little window of opportunity to be together,

it doesn't feel like such a fast stretch to try and get to a sexy place.

It's always about whatever you can do to kind of keep the fire alive

and the connection, little touches, a smooch that goes a little bit longer

or something whispered in the air.

I think desire, letting your partner know that you're really desired, feels so hot.

You're like, oh my God, yes.

So then yes, unfortunately the prioritising of time does have to kind of come into it.

And a lot of people find scheduling, intimate time together really unsexy,

but I'm all about it.

We schedule everything else and we're living in these stupid lives

that we were just meeting and work and everything that has to go into normal day life.

But we've got to do it with sex as well.

If we want a different body, we've got to prioritise going to the gym.

On a healthy sex life, we have to book it in and prioritise it.

So, yeah, but if you can find those little sweet spots throughout the day

or during the week to connect on a just a general stoking the fire way

and then find a little window where you can...

A little sex appointment.

Yeah.

But I don't want to...

Fuck off, what was I going to say.

I don't want to jump in here, but it's also, I guess important,

if you do schedule that time, not to make it just a transactional appointment,

where you're like, okay, fucking Friday, eight o'clock,

it's like in sex time, like it doesn't have to be intercourse every time, right?

I love that you said that, because that's really important

and think that is what actually turns a lot of people off from scheduling it

because it's like, oh God, what if I don't actually feel like it then?

So then it adds this pressure.

So what that time put aside should be about is like intimately connecting

whether or not that's talking about your feelings

or what you really need to get off your chest,

whether or not that's a back massage,

whether or not that's just like sitting, holding each other

or really getting down to business, either or.

But it is about just making that time to just be together.

And so many people are like, I'm too tired

and I really get that and you're like, I just want to watch Netflix.

The thing is that sexual energy, orgasmic energy

is that same kind of life force energy

and it does energise you as you're sort of doing it.

As you pick up as that energy moves through, it does revitalise you.

So, I mean, I know you can be really pooped afterwards,

but during, it brings you to life.

So sometimes it's just about starting.

I love that Jay Reeve has become the sex guru,

but it just made me think again when you were saying that.

It's like, when I make out with my wife,

there is an expectation because, like I said,

the busy schedules and work and kids and stuff,

that it's probably going to lead to sex,

because it usually does.

But yeah, you stope those fires, you keep those embers burning.

Jay Reeve style, the good times will come.

I think that's a really important thing to actually touch on at this point

is that I work with a lot of women who push away affection from their partner

because they think it's always going to lead to sex.

If they actually melt into a hot kiss or a smerch,

they think it's going to mean that it's all on.

And so they're actually depriving themselves

and their partner of just a nice intimate moment.

So what I suggest is to really have lots of moments

where it's just a hot smerch, or it's just a bum grab

or a little rub up against or a whisper of sweet nothings

with it not leading to anything.

Because I think what happens to a lot of women

is that they're so touched out, they're so taken from

within the household of jobs and stuff.

I know I am generalising here, but it's like,

I see a contraction that happens in a lot of my clients

where then when their partner starts to approach them

and it might just be a hand on the back

and it might not be wanting to lead to anything else,

but they recoil because they just think,

oh my god, all he wants from me is sex.

So keep up the loving touches that are not going to lead to anywhere.

Have those hot smerch sessions that never lead to anything more than that.

That's really good advice.

Really good advice.

Can I touch on taking this slightly in a different direction?

Some urban myths that I made note of in preparation for coming in here

that you may, these may or not be factual,

but seven sneezes on a woman is equivalent to an orgasm?

Is it a legit quiz?

No?

No.

Okay, okay.

Again, these are things that you're kind of...

Some will hit, some will miss.

Yeah, you're conditioned to kind of believe are true.

Wait, have you grown up believing this?

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, is that not...

Just on a woman, not on a man?

Well, I don't know, I never reached seven.

I had heard something about seven.

Yeah, don't call, don't crochet on me like I'm the A-hole here.

I think it was back to primary school days.

Do you know that if you sneeze seven times in a row,

it makes you have an orgasm?

Yeah.

And no one ever gets to seven.

You get to four or five.

Like, oh, just two more and I would have got it.

Yeah, no one questions it.

That's so funny.

But how good does a really good,

relasive, like, relasive sneeze,

that feels like a full relasive,

almost feels like an orgasm, doesn't it?

No sneeze I've ever had, has matched my orgasm.

I take that for free.

Wow, we...

I got asked to describe what it feels like the other day

and the closest I could get in terms of description

was a golf ball coming out of a hose pipe.

Is it for a sneeze or an orgasm?

For an orgasm.

For a male orgasm.

Is it painful?

A golf ball out of a hose pipe.

Yeah, like a just a...

That sounds like a golf ball is quite a big thing

to get out of a hose pipe.

Yeah, it feels painful.

I was thinking painful.

Oh, no.

I know as it feels painful to me.

Oh, okay.

All right.

Are your orgasms painful?

Bad description, no, no, they're not.

Explosive?

Yeah, kind, yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Maybe that's not a good description at all.

Maybe that's why I got quizzical looks back at me

from that description.

Like has the hose turned on full ball here or...

Yeah, there's flaws.

I feel like it just gets stuck on its way out.

Yeah, but how good when it comes out.

Yeah.

Oh, do you feel like you have to really work for it?

Nah, you guys are really digging away.

It was just a rudimentary description,

but clearly I'm off the mark on that.

Squirt is just pee?

Oh my God, no, it is not.

It is ejaculative fluid.

Okay.

Yeah, it does come out of the urethral lining.

So sometimes there is like a tiny amount of pee,

but like the proteins in it are very different from your own.

Okay.

Am I right in thinking that when woman squirt,

it's like a tap that is quite difficult to turn off,

that some people, they will always squirt after they do it once?

It can be.

Yeah, it actually...

Some people are quite easily wired for that.

And so sometimes when the floodgates have opened,

it becomes the norm.

It's a little bit like a neural pathway as well.

Like once you've done it,

and it's like such a good time for the body,

it'll keep on doing that.

But again, it's sort of something like semen retention.

You can kind of train yourself out of it.

It's like most bodies are wired to be able to squirt,

and not all do,

but you can actually make yourself do it

if you are a very diligent student.

I didn't see myself asking a squirting question in this pod,

but I just wanted to show that I had listened

to one of your podcast,

because I heard you talking about squirting the other way.

So good.

It's really nice.

Do you think squirting has been really like sexualized

in terms of like porn or like guys,

oh yeah, she squirted it on my face?

Oh yeah.

So do people want, like do men want that?

Yeah.

I think in reality the mess and the cleanup

would just be an admin nightmare.

If it happened again and again and again,

maybe a once off,

like a one might stand,

you'd be like oh my god,

she squirted it everywhere.

That was amazing.

Yeah.

I feel like it's a hole in one in golf.

Like everyone wants to achieve it,

at least once in their life.

Right.

But yeah,

you wouldn't want to hit a hole in one in golf

every time,

because you've got to shout the bar.

At the clubhouse afterwards.

Is this an allergy card?

No, I'm just really in a golf phase,

which is your area.

Fuck, I don't know where I've,

where I've, how I've landed up in golf.

I'm flustered.

Yeah.

There's more than two female orgasms, right?

Like I was always thought there's a clitoral orgasm

and a vaginal orgasm,

but there's more than just two.

Yeah, I mean there's multiple ways

to orgasm in the body.

And I hate getting kind of stuck on like,

oh there's a cervical orgasm,

there's a P-Spot,

there's a K-Spot,

there's an A-Spot.

Chorgasm I've heard as well as another one.

In the core?

Yeah, when you're working out.

Yeah, yeah.

Really?

Not me.

There's energetic orgasms.

You know, there's airgasms.

There's, you know, yeah, it's all go.

What I think is better about that

is to just know that the body is orgasmic.

Right.

And all parts have got pleasure,

things that can really build to places

where you feel like there's a release.

I have so many people that come to me

that I call them pre-orgasmic

because I think everybody can orgasm.

But they're like, I've never orgasmed.

I'm like, tell me what it feels like.

Tell me what they experience in Peter.

And then they say, go for it.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, it's amazing.

Please carry on.

I can't.

Okay, because I'm glad,

I'm glad you said that the body is orgasmic.

Because another urban myth,

one of my mates said that he brought

his partner to orgasm just by touching her nipples.

Yeah.

And we always called bullshit on that.

But is that possible?

Oh, absolutely.

And I used to have a partner

that his nipples were very sensitive.

And if I really focused on there,

he would ejaculate.

Oh wow.

Yeah, it's a real thing.

I mean, there are a lot of nerve endings in the nipples.

So it's definitely possible.

How is Sean doing?

Yeah, we're listening.

You've flustered me.

The golf ball in the hose pipe, sorry.

Yeah, I know.

God, I'm gonna have to paint that,

I think, just to get it out of my body.

Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Is that the end of the urban legends?

That is all the urban legends I had, I think, yeah.

Oh, thank God.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's all of them.

Yeah, I've ticked them all off.

I'm glad I've got to 40

and I've finally got to the bottom of some of those.

I have another question about men receiving the squirt.

Yeah, please.

Just because, I mean, I had talked to my lad friends

about things all the time,

but I just haven't had this conversation.

So do you feel like men would think that it's an achievement?

Yes.

That they've done it?

Yes.

That they have made...

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like building a deck or something like that.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Oh, good.

Yeah, yeah.

I think because it's...

Because I, and this might be wrong,

I would assume it's linked to an orgasm,

squirting an orgasm.

Can be separate.

Well, I didn't know it could be separate.

Yeah.

So to make a woman orgasm during sex

is kind of like an achievement.

Okay.

And so that is just proof of that achievement.

Aha.

An extension on that.

Achievement.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, this is so interesting.

I think all.

Does that answer surprise you?

It affirms, I guess, like a little bit surprised.

Oh.

What did you think?

Well, I think because like for me,

when I'm with a lover,

there's such a big part of what I've done

for myself to be orgasmic.

You know?

So they play a big role,

but there's also like I'm using my breath.

I'm connected to my...

I'm softening.

I'm opening.

I'm letting tension go.

I'm, you know, like having this deep presence

of all the work that I've done to like unravel my sexual body

will make for explosive orgasms

if the person can like meet me in that realm.

Interessant.

This draws into something that I learned as well

on my journey this last week.

Yeah.

The ego.

The male ego.

And I think the male ego is connected to...

I can't speak on behalf of anyone else,

but I would think that I've had sex with someone

and I've squirted.

That was my doing.

That was I was...

I was the one who made that happen.

And I've sort of realized that, you know,

there's work to do,

but yeah, it's a bigger picture.

And I'm thinking, you know,

when I...

talking about ego,

when I get rejected,

and like I've said, my household situation,

there are a thousand good reasons why I get rejected.

I can take that really personally

and I really struggle for sometimes days after that

because I feel that I'm not wanted.

But I realize that it's not personal.

It's just, you know,

I hadn't done the groundwork through the week.

I hadn't kept the fires burning.

It was just I expected the tap to turn on.

And then when it doesn't,

then I think that it's me.

And that's my ego thinking that...

where it's sort of totally not the case.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that.

I reckon a lot of people will resonate with that.

And it's funny how rejection

feels so much bigger in this realm.

You know,

if, you know,

you'd ask for a cup of tea

and your wife said,

no, I'm not making a cup of tea.

You wouldn't think twice about it, you know.

But sex, it's like, oh, that hurts.

So yeah, I think that rejection piece

doesn't hit as hard

if there's more of a constant communication

happening around it as well.

Because what happens when there's two bodies

that are cohabitating together,

having different arousal levels,

different experiences in the world,

one person can just get turned on

and they are ready to go.

But we've got no concept of what's happening

for that other person's body in that time.

And we can kind of go in all hot and heavy

or however we do approach it.

And that other person can be totally caught off guard.

Like, I'm feeling so far from that right now.

I cannot even believe you're in that realm, you know.

And so, yeah, it's about...

My wife's in the third trimester with that fourth kid.

So there's a lot going on.

So I'm coming in with a full head of steam.

She's like, no.

Are you fucking kidding me?

No.

And I'm like, oh, I'm not attractive anymore.

So then what do you do?

Do you self-pleasure?

Or like, how do you work through that?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it's self-pleasure.

It's fine in time for myself.

We talk about, well, Bond talks about seasons a lot,

which I've actually heard you speak about

and a lot of other women, which I wasn't really.

I'm not sure if you've heard the term seasons before.

But our season is...

On the golf ball in the post pipe.

Our season is pregnancy.

So my wife has been pregnant

or breastfeeding for the last seven years.

So, you know, we go through these phases

where it's really good

and we tend to have a baby when that happens.

And then pregnancy can be difficult

and there's all that stuff that goes with it.

So it's sort of right in the roller coaster,

but being aware of the bigger picture

and knowing that this is a lifelong journey.

There will be peaks and troughs.

And when there are times when she doesn't feel like it,

that, yeah, self-pleasure, you find a way.

But yeah, I just think in this communication thing

is just being able to front foot it

and talk about it

and not feeling like it's this taboo subject

that needs to be hidden away

and just being confident with it is my learning.

Yeah, I love that.

And I love a little game

that I quite often give to clients

to just bring into their household,

which is I have a desire.

And you can say that to your partner

in any context, like, I have a desire.

You always got to say that, but sexy.

I have a desire.

And then it can be anything you want.

Like, it could be,

say if someone was like chopping some carrots,

not a very sharp knife, okay?

Just imagine this.

And then someone comes up behind and says,

I have a desire.

I want to lick the back of your neck

right up to your hairline.

And it's like, that's kind of weird, kind of sexy.

Okay, you can do it, you know?

Yeah.

Or it's like, I have a desire for you to, like,

just show me your willy from, like, across the room.

You know, things like this.

And it's like, it's so playful.

It's creative.

And it can be turned from something really cheeky

to something really hot quite quickly.

And if you normalise that to connect,

to play, like in your everyday life,

it's a really easy tool.

And you can have fun with it

so the rejection piece doesn't hit so hard either.

Yeah.

And you know, if you're really pissed off,

you can say, I have a desire for you to take the rubbish out, you know?

I have a desire for you to shut the fuck up.

Yeah.

A little in joke.

That's nice.

It's really nice.

Man, this has been great.

It's covered a lot of ground.

Tell us about the new podcast though.

Because there is an exciting new release coming out.

I believe it will be released by the time this one is out.

So, yeah, what's going on?

Yeah, so this is called Sex.Life.

And it's kind of my belief system

that how we do life is how we do sex.

And so everything comes back to sex.

And so the dot represents that middle bit of life.

Everything that happens in between.

And I went on a journey to a sex school.

This is a journey piece, kind of like my old podcast

where you literally every episode, something wild is happening.

As I'm learning in this new sex school.

It's pretty much a cult.

It's pretty much a sex cult that I went to.

Which your mum joked about, I think,

on the very first episode that you were joining a sex cult.

Yeah, but I wasn't.

I was in a very safe place.

Lo and behold, give me three years later

and I'm actually at a sex cult.

Doing wild things that I never thought I would do.

Wilder than what I had to do in my training.

Do we have to wait until the podcast drops before?

I mean, I could def...

I did a lot of...

Like, there were 50 people on the training

and I did a lot of things with a lot of people witnessing.

That was when I was in my sexual body with another person.

But it was just, I don't know, it's hard to explain.

I mean, there's all sorts of weird shit.

From having the ground, like, connecting with, like,

Papato Anuku, like, the earth, to, like, having my ass eaten, you know.

It's in front of 50 people on a temple night.

You know, it was just like, it was just lots of weirdness.

Things that I never really wanted my mum to...

When I told my mum about that particular piece

and I came home from that, she was like,

oh, God, oh, well, love, I'm just so pleased

that you could feel so comfortable in your body to do that.

You know, she really is a trooper.

She's a real supportive one.

So, yeah, I kind of went undercover into this sex school cult

because I knew dodgy shit was going on down there

and I guess I feel like a little bit of duty of care

to find out what is happening in the sexual realms in New Zealand.

But I'm also looking for my own expansion

because I feel like I can only ever take my clients

as far as I go myself.

It's one thing to teach from a textbook,

but one to have, like, a lived experience of stuff.

So, yeah, I just went and, like, put my body on the line again

and, yeah, I had energetic orgasms

and it was a great, it was a great time.

How are you feeling about putting this one out there?

We spoke at the start about, you know, having some nervousness

about some of the stuff you're doing,

the stuff you've explained.

Is there nervousness? Are you confident?

I'm really nervous, I'm really nervous

I'm going to piss off the cult.

Yeah, because they say not to share what happens there.

But I didn't sign an NDA.

I've signed a few in my time, so.

So, there is that, but I am nervous.

I am nervous because it's next level.

Like, last time my podcast was about my training,

there was a real purpose for what I was doing.

Whereas this time, it's like, I'm a very,

like, I'm well established in my work

and I've got my professional reputation on the line.

But again, it comes back to this,

like, there is all these parts of me and that's okay.

And as humans, we are complex and we are layered

and we do different things.

And I think that what is nicely weaved into this podcast

is my co-host, Hailey Sproul.

We're sharing things about our own personal insecurities

around bodies and sex.

And it's just so relatable, I think, for people.

So, I hope, like a trainee sexologist,

it takes people on a journey of their own questioning,

like what they think is normal,

where they could expand in their life,

what they could try a bit differently.

And learn lots, like learn to shed the shame

and shed the taboos of sex.

I guess I just had to take it another step deeper.

It sounds incredible.

I'll be listening.

That's a great sell for the podcast,

for what it's worth.

Thank you.

Wow, wow, yeah.

I don't really know what to say.

I am going to start wrapping us up.

Shay does the outros, but before I throw to him,

thank you so much for coming in.

We weren't really sure where the conversation was going.

We didn't have the framework,

but I feel like we've touched on a lot of really important areas.

It's been great.

Like I said, through your work, podcasts and interviews

and just listening to you, I've learned a lot.

I'm on the beginning of the journey,

but yeah, it's been great.

I'm not the outro guy.

I'm so pleased.

Thank you.

Can I just ask one more question?

How's your bladder?

Good, no, fine, yeah.

I drank a lot of water for the listeners this morning.

Wow, done.

My mum will be proud of that, too.

Good question.

Really good question.

Thank you.

Outro, okay.

This, like Steven, I didn't know where this one was going to go.

And I feel like this is one of our more important podcasts

that we've done in 122.

Wow.

Because it is awkward subject matter

to speak about for everyday people.

And I feel like even in the week

that Steven and I have been preparing for this,

we've learned, I'm speaking on your behalf as well.

Don't do that.

Don't you ever.

We've learned heaps.

I've learned so much about myself,

about my relationship with sex, my approach to it as well,

which can only serve for the betterment of

not only a relationship, but also a relationship with others,

but a relationship with myself, too.

And I hope on hope that more of our male listeners

take these initial steps like we are

in improving and addressing some of those areas

that operate in the dark lands

that we don't want to talk about.

And if we're brave enough to speak about

how we're feeling and what our mental health is,

I feel like we should be brave enough to speak

about how our sexual health is going as well

and creating safe spaces and friendships

to be able to talk to those and deal with them

sincerely, with empathy, but also with humour,

because I feel like that's, as you've said,

is the best way to do that.

So I'm nervous about how this is going to go,

but I'm excited about the impact

that it'll have on me personally.

So thank you very much for coming in and sharing some time

and sharing some of your incredible wisdom

picked up along the way of an incredible body of work.

Oh, that is so beautiful.

Thank you.

I feel like you really get it.

And I also have those wishes.

I hope there's a big ripple effect from this,

because, yeah, we all need it.

Awesome. Thank you.

Cheers, Morgan.

Thanks.

Copyright WDR 2021

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.