My First Million: Meet The Man Behind Conor McGregor’s +$650M Empire

What was reported, I think, was 30 to Conor and 100 to Floyd.

Was that what was reported?

I think it was for certainly higher for Conor than I know.

And and, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around

there or higher, just depending on what he did again.

Wow. You really think that 100 million was true?

Well, I mean, I Conor was, you know, I'd say just under 100, right?

When it's all said and done.

So that's his part.

So again, he has a part, we had a partner in UFC.

So and I will get into the specifics.

But yeah, so for Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have

pulled in 100, assuming that he he didn't take it all.

I see all these interviews with you.

I see you on the UFC, like behind the scenes stuff.

And you're always wearing slick suits and you're dressed nice right now.

But I just saw that you're drinking out of a Stanley mug.

Just to remind everyone at home that no matter how fancy someone is,

we all have a little basicness inside of us.

You know, I always say, like, you know, it's business, much like sports.

You have to, you know, you wear your uniform to play the game, right?

But we're all human at the end of the day.

We all have our casual clothes there.

You know, I've always seen one interview you and I've watched a bunch of interviews.

There's only one interview that you weren't wearing a suit.

You're wearing like Lulu lemon and a hat.

That would be the only time I'm going to have to switch it up now, man.

That's that, you know, I have to switch it up, but it's a pleasure to meet you guys.

You should zig and zag the other way.

Because I think a lot of people in the like agents, talent management,

they are all like very slick looking.

You should go the other way, right?

Like you should go at least your as your main thing, because you were an athlete.

So I feel like you can pull that off.

And a lot of guys in that space will all look like suits to, you know, in comparison.

I'm going to have to, man, I'm going to have to to make people remember

that I was actually one of them before I became a suit.

Well, there was some bum out there in San Francisco,

who was the first person to wear just like, you know, pajama bottoms

and a T-shirt instead of a suit.

You just that's that's your burden now, I guess.

I was in Cali, too.

So I got to start just rocking flip flops, you know what I mean?

Just just I'll go with the flip flops in the shorts in Silicon Valley.

It's like the opposite.

Like I remember when I first moved here, I went to like this nice kind of like

club, speakeasy type thing.

And everybody's waiting in line and a guy walks up with a hoodie

and, you know, it just looks completely disheveled and the bouncers know, like,

all right, this guy's either homeless or a billionaire.

We don't know which one.

We got to just err on the side of maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg.

Let him in. Let him in first.

Go that way. I realize, oh, shit.

The status game is different here.

That's funny. I heard a lot about that.

Yeah, certainly counterculture, if you will, to business.

The novel bit, the New York and New York hustles all suit and tie,

whereas the San Francisco hustles definitely flip flops and holes in your T-shirt.

So your introduction here is it's it's it's there's you've done a bunch of stuff.

So you've started Paradigm, which is you just call it an agency, a sports agency,

sports management company.

I'd say it's a sports management entertainment platform.

It's what it is platform.

All right. With the most famous guy being Conor McGregor.

But I also think you have Izzy.

Do you have one more champion on there?

I thought you had three.

So Izzy is a former client of ours, but definitely was an amazing client

while he was with us.

Michael Bisbing, Michael Bisbing, Steve Warner Boyd Thompson,

Michael Bennett Page, Rico Verhoeven, past clients.

I'm just like Chris Lytle, who's actually one of my first clients.

That's how I got into the sport.

But yeah, very fortunate to work with some of the greatest fighters of all time.

So yeah, so just a bunch of ballers.

But then you also co-founded proper 12, which we're going to ask you all about it.

But according to the headlines, it was like a $600 million exit.

So you've had some, you know, maybe even more success there than the main thing.

What's cool is so you run a talent, kind of like, let's say,

well, part of your business is talent management, talent agency.

And that's cool.

There's a bunch of our audience that also owns agencies, which I think is great.

But what I liked about you is that you have also kind of the venture side.

So you're like creating brands and business ventures off the talent.

And we've talked about these kind of creator brands in the past.

We had, you know, Mr. Beast on here, and he's got all these kind of like

feastables, he's got other, you know, corporate brands underneath it.

We had an Instagram star, Danny Austin, come on, and she's got Divi,

like a haircare brand that's doing, you know, way more money than she can get.

Kind of just in versus like influencer brand deals.

And so what I like is that you've got and Rob Dierdek.

Yeah, Rob Dierdek, you've got both.

And that's been a theme that we've kind of been been playing with.

So I think we'll we'll try to hop around a little bit, but I definitely bless you.

I mean, I'll be remiss by then give you those two.

Sorry. Oh, wow, what a gentleman.

Look at that.

John may edit it out.

And then no, that's a character show right there.

I'm like, I'm talking if Sam's dying over there, I'm going to finish my point.

I don't care. He's good.

He'll come back.

No, no, I appreciate the recognition.

I mean, we certainly I feel we're one of the early, you know, platforms,

last agencies, if you will, that really saw not only, you know, an opportunity,

but more so wanted to do more for our clients, right?

And we wanted to disrupt our respective industry, but also think far beyond that

and not just think transactional.

And for me, in mixed martial arts, it was an underserved market.

And we wanted to not only advocate for our clients, but advocate for the sport,

really push fighter, fighter, not only earnings higher and higher,

which still have a long way to go, but they've come a long way from when we first

started in back in 2009 in the sport.

And we were very fortunate because we came in right before the first,

you know, right steal was was actually paid.

You know, the UFC was paying to be on spike prior to the Fox deal.

And as, you know, most people know, that's the main economic driver

of any professional sports organization, whether it's the, you know, NFL, the NBA.

And now obviously from, from mixed martial arts perspective, the UFC,

they were paying spike to put themselves on TV.

That's that's publicly known.

They were actually, you know, paying for that airtime.

So the original ultimate fighter and then all all that was broadcast on spike

back in the day.

Yeah, they were not only funding their own production, but they were paying

for that airtime and Fox was that really first paid deal.

At the UFC Garner, you know, and which was a monumental milestone

for the sport and for the promotion.

And the sport of mixed martial arts, you know, is is it wouldn't be here

without the UFC, which is the catalyst for where the sport is today.

Now you have other promotions that are competing and promotion

is very synonymous with leagues, right?

So when you talk about leagues, you know, there's certain terminologies

within the sports world that are very similar, although there's a lot

of differences as well, right?

In terms of, you know, athletes and that is MBA being employees

and then fighters being independent contractors.

So for us, we saw an opportunity of it not only being the fastest growing

sport and an underserved market for the athletes, but then also really

thinking beyond just management, how could we create, you know,

more value for the clients?

And, you know, it takes a special client and a special personality

like Conor McGregor, so I was very fortunate to sign him 10 years ago.

And, you know, and we had a vision and he was very, very bullish

about that vision as well.

Let's rewind. Let's rewind to that.

So you your stories kind of all give the first part very fast.

So you you play football at UCLA and I'm getting injured.

You move into a management side of things.

You got you got some kind of football players as your first clients.

And then you branch into MMA and you discover Conor McGregor.

Can you tell the story?

How did you? How did you discover Conor?

What was what was his situation like at that time?

And what was those kind of the first meeting?

It takes back to those days.

Yeah, sure. So I think taking it back to the first days,

the early days really working with guys like Chris Lytle, right?

Getting into the business or working with a guy like that.

I got to work with him for one fight and he retired.

So then it was being able to sign Michael Bisping, which was a massive

opportunity for me and someone that I'm so proud of not only as a client,

but as a friend as well, went on to be the first British champion,

first UFC champion from from the UK.

And, you know, he's a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up and coming

athletes within Europe, you know, Ireland included.

So I was very fortunate enough to start to work with Michael and other clients

as well earlier in my in my career in the UFC and mixed martial arts

in particular.

And so what I signed Connor was when he first came on to the to the UFC scene,

right? He was fighting in the regional promotion in Europe, cage warriors,

which is still around and still a, you know, that was called a mid major, if you will.

And these are these are to some extent the professional

promotions, but their feeder programs and the larger promotions, if you will.

And he had just signed to the UFC and we were introduced

interesting enough like through Facebook.

And at the time it was he was, you know, looking at signing with one of the

agencies in the sport.

And I got an opportunity to pitch him and coach his coach, John Kavanaugh,

as to why I felt that we would be the best fit for him.

And so you got to, you know, put your best foot forward and

and give it a shot and hopefully you win that business.

And I was fortunate enough that, you know, we got first opportunity

actually to work with him heading into his, you know, his first fight.

We were so, OK, well, let's pause now.

Let's talk after this first fight.

So he beats Marcus Primage.

Was that the 50 G baby?

Yeah, that's the famous line that fight.

And after that, his second fight was his U.S. debut

actually against Max Holloway.

And we started to work with with one another heading into that fight.

And so the rest is history.

But one of the things, you know, you recognize is not only his athletic

ability, but then he adds special, special, not only talent inside the octagon,

but you could tell he was very special and charismatic.

He had that it factor that, you know, is is I think it's it's once in a

it's once in a generation type of of an athlete as well,

not only from a physical perspective, but a qualitative perspective.

And so, you know, the sky was going to be the limit

in terms of what we could do together.

And was that I mean, I've seen all the there's these older interviews

where kind of saw his acne, he has no tattoos, and he says, like, you know,

mark my words, you will see me in the UFC.

You will see me as a champion one day.

And then coming up leading up to that Marcus fight.

And then I think it was Dennis Silver in Boston.

I remember correctly, like in the early days,

you still see that he has some type of star power on camera.

But behind the scenes, even at a young age in his early 20s,

did you notice that the confidence and the star power was there

just in your normal hanging out sessions?

Yeah, you could definitely see his charisma behind the scenes.

And, you know, he was like I said, he was very witty,

very, very confident, but also very engaging.

You know, I think one of the things I always tell people is that,

you know, majority of people in the world know who kind of a regret is.

And I would argue that most of them have never seen him fight.

They've actually seen more of his interviews and and and him talking

because, you know, when he talks, you can't take your eyes off of it.

That's right.

He's just so fun.

And whether you love him or hate him, you're watching him, you know,

and that's that's I think what makes him special.

Yeah, you find a Conor is kind of like we've had guys on this podcast

that are like, yeah, I discovered Uber.

I was like the fifth investor in Uber or, you know, like their early investors

in Facebook or something like that.

Right. It's like a it's like an angel investment that goes on to become

this is what we call it's like a unicorn, right?

That's like this billion dollar brand that you discover at that early age.

Where were other people pitching him for business at that time?

Because I remember that first brimage fight.

There was like a hype around him.

Like even his entrance, people were like really excited about him.

And I didn't know who he was at the time.

So I don't even know how people were so excited about the guy at that time.

So I imagine that, you know, there were other agents trying to win

that business at that time.

Do you have any good fun anecdotes or stories of like your hustle at that time

to get him or was it like, no, people, it was kind of like a like an ignored asset.

People didn't realize that this was going to be that he was going to be a big deal.

And it really what it didn't look like it was like this hotly contested thing.

No, I definitely think that people were were, you know, hot on him.

But I think everybody was pitching him on the same idea.

It was more transactional.

And I think what were I stood out, Sterly, was because I had a broader vision.

I had a broader vision of creating IP, you know, and creating media and content,

but also creating business ventures.

Right. And I really was bullish on that idea.

And I remember even when I first launched Paradigm 2009, my business plan

was not only to be the best in class from a management perspective,

but build clients media and IP, whereby building more brand equities to them.

And that would yield not only more answer revenues from a sponsorship

perspective, but increase their value from a from their playing

contract or perspective, athletically, and also leads to business ventures.

And, you know, I was laughed at when I first had that business plan.

It's too busy, focused on what you could do, you know, like, and I think that

that's what stood out to him because he had that vision in himself as well.

And it was even if you think about what we did back in 2017 with the Floyd fight.

I mean, everybody thought we were crazy, you know, that that fight was never going to happen.

And everybody doubted us.

Everybody, even some of those ended up doing the deal and partnering with us.

So ultimately, you know, we had to believe in ourselves and more importantly,

go out and actually execute, right?

Because you can have dreams, you can have visions, you can start something.

But if you don't execute successfully, it means nothing.

And now that trend is common.

Those exhibitions now are commonplace.

You see everybody now taking place in these exhibitions.

And there's an appetite from a consumer perspective for these unique matchups

where people are matched up from different sports just to compete in combat sports.

And then we even launched our venture on the back of that.

We launched proper 2018.

And so, you know, again, at that time, I think it was maybe George Clooney

and and maybe Puff Daddy at the time, you know, but I don't think anybody else.

Now, like spirits, everybody has some type of a liquor brand that they're hot in.

And and then Ventures is commonplace as well.

So, you know, to me, I'm proud of the fact that we had this vision

and we were able to execute more importantly, you know, because it's very hard to do.

It's hand to hand combat every day entrepreneurship.

I want to ask you about the proper 12 stuff.

But before that, so like I grew up watching entourage.

And so you see like Ari Emanuel or Ari Gold dealing with like crazy young actors

who have monies and money and it's like, you know, drugs and sex.

And then ballers, it's like drugs and sex as well.

But the difference between, you know, ballers, what's an NFL?

But then there's the difference, I imagine, with UFC fighters where it's

you're not an actor, you're not a player.

You're going to get out there in your underwear and fight to the death

in front of millions of people.

Can you like tell me a little bit about the difference between managing

someone like Connor or Izzy like these like because I imagine them.

Are they crazy?

What's that mindset like on a daily basis in that mentality, particularly

when it comes to business?

Are they have you found that you've got to hold them back

from being so aggressive sometimes or what's that like with that type of athlete?

Well, first of all, I don't think they're crazy per se.

So it's not, you know, because of the profession or the sport that they're in

that that they tend to be maybe a little bit, you know, crazy, so to speak.

Right. I mean, like when I say crazy, I mean, like high risk, high risk.

Well, I think, look, it means depending on the field you're in,

that's subjective what you think high risk and not most.

Totally. Most people that come to say, if you're a neurosurgeon,

you're going to think the combat points is super high risk, right?

But ultimately, I think every human being is different.

There's certainly there's certainly when you're that competitive,

you're going to be driven.

You're going to be more aggressive.

And I think I see it even in business at the same at the highest level.

There's there's that chip on the shoulder.

There's that edge that that every high level competitor has,

whether it's an athlete in different sports, whether it's a businessman

or woman and at the highest level of their respective field.

So obviously business acumen varies, right?

So if you're talking about an institutional investor versus a professional athlete,

that varies. But even within the sport, you have athletes

that have a very high level of business acumen.

Conor's not trained from an institutional perspective.

He didn't go get his MBA.

He doesn't have that that academic background, if you will, right?

But he's a very natural businessman.

What's what's a story as an example?

Well, I mean, the story is proper 12.

I mean, couldn't easily taking a check from a sponsorship perspective

and been so short-sighted as opposed to putting up our own capital initially,

finding the right operating partner, finding the right strategic capital,

supply chain, route to market, going out and creating our own,

working without getting the sponsorship check for X amount of posts

or Y amount of appearances, if you will, for an ultimate windfall

that changes life and is generational well.

So that in itself is a great example.

You guys have like Jameson, like, hey, we want to sponsor you.

And you were like, dude, fuck this, Conor, let's do our own thing.

He's always had a desire to get into whiskey.

It's like he's Irish.

It's part of their DNA, right?

And his grandfather was a was a whiskey man.

And we always had that idea when we were approached by a sponsor

and it was like, do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check?

Or do we just go and own our own business?

And when you study the category, you looked at the TAM

and you looked at the opportunity, you're like, we could this is right for disruption.

We actually could really come in and do something here, right?

And so that that's a perfect example of his natural business acting, right?

Because it's hard to do that, especially at that level.

He wasn't making, you know, a ton of money yet up until we got to the Floyd flight,

which is by the way, when we announced our entry into the market,

we announced our entry into the whiskey market in our post-flight press conference.

Yeah, I remember he's holding the glass at the post-flight.

We started, though, the process in 2014.

And we were doing a lot of research and development and pivoting from different

groups. And ultimately, we found the right, you know, formula, if you will,

and the right team, et cetera, right?

And the rest is history.

And that, to me, takes a lot of, a lot of intelligence for an athlete to do that's

not trained, hasn't had the experience of building a business and, you know,

more over the patience, right?

To really bet on himself.

How much of your guys' capital did you put up to get it off the ground?

And do you remember what your first year's sales was?

Well, I'll tell you, I can't disclose all the information just through

district confidentiality provisions that exist with our partners and our acquirers.

So I got to be safe.

But I can tell you that we put up probably a few hundred thousand of our own capital

initially. I could say that, right?

And that's, you know, I mean, most of that went to lawyers, if you will,

just before you can get started.

So, but it's like strategically, I think the way we set it up.

And we have great partners, you know, one of our partners is an operating genius

and is a wizard in the spirits business, Ken Austin.

So I got to give him a shout out because I.

Yeah, he had another company, right?

I mean, he did it on his own.

Then he did it probably with us.

He's done Teramada now.

He's done the Lolo.

Jim Daniels, he's a, he's a, he's a geek when it comes to the spirits business.

You know?

And when you find people like that, are you doing just like a, like a 30, 30, 30,

like, you know, you guys all split equity?

Well, I can't go into the details of the cap table.

I wish I could, but again, the strong confidentiality provisions and all

agreement, but it was a, it's a fair deal.

And I think everybody's happy in the end.

But moreover, you bring on a black belt that knows what they're doing.

Because at the end of the day, that's part of operating a business and being successful.

It's like, you know what you don't know, but essentially, no matter what the

cap table looks like, you got to make sure you bring on that, the right

expertise, right?

From an operational perspective, you have to have all the right ingredients to be

able to execute successfully.

So even with something like that, let's say, just to put this in perspective.

So the decision to say, well, we could just take a straight sponsorship deal, get

a check, make a few Instagram posts and, and, you know, cast that check versus we're

going to do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand.

The payoff difference, I imagine, you could tell me from, I think it's probably

a hundred to one, would that be approximate?

So like, you know, if you just say, okay, over a few years, we would have a kind

of an alcohol sponsor and we're, we're doing, you know, kind of these, these

scheduled posts with them or commercials with them or whatever it may be.

I think it's probably something like 50 to 100 X bigger return by doing the work.

Is that, I would say it's a, it's a multiple of that.

A few hundred.

Do how much for the sponsor should have been, I mean, I mean, back in that,

back at that time, you know, when we first started the process, it would have

been like two, 250,000 or something like that.

I would have been a big one.

By the time we launched, he probably was in the seven bigger range.

Yeah.

In terms of sponsors, sponsorship annually, right?

That's like an annual deal.

Annual deal, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

So a million, some, some millions per year in order to promote a whiskey versus

hundreds of millions.

Yeah, exactly.

So I would say, I would say like, it was, you know, you could run any, you know,

analysis, even an, an, an, an MTV and look at like how we won and won big.

You talked about the Mayweather, McGregor thing, how that came to like, how

that, nobody's thought that that was going to happen.

And then it, it actually happened.

And it was kind of amazing.

I remember vividly where I was.

I remember I was in, I was in Australia and I had to get up at a certain time.

I was at a bar at like five in the morning or something like that to watch that fight.

But I also remember the buildup.

Like there was the kind of back and forth almost flirting on, on social media,

talking, talking trash to each other to try to generate interest.

Cause I think both guys, Floyd and Connor, probably the two smartest

businessmen ever that come through combat sports.

And they kind of knew, okay, this is the right dance partner for, for us to

like execute something orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do.

And, um, and I remember at the time it was seen as almost like the Elon Musk's

Mark Zuckerberg thing today, or it's like, wow, that'd be crazy if it happened,

but there's no way.

I mean, just to get all these people to get them ever to agree, um, seemed impossible.

Can you take us back?

Like, uh, you know, like, I see all these videos of you like hanging out at

Connors house or whatever.

And like, you know, the behind the scenes stuff, there hadn't

been just like a couch conversation where you guys are like, okay, could we do this?

How could we do this?

What, what was that early days?

Like before it came to fruition.

So I, to your point, I think, you know, you have two of the smarter and

shavvy business men in combat sports that really understood, you know, the modern

day fandom of both sports, right?

And early days, like he wants to do it.

And then it would be shot down by UFC, by, by members of the media, by whoever

that just doubted that it would ever happen.

Um, and I think that the banter is really what allowed it to happen because once

they started going back and forth and you could actually see the level of engagement

and interest from a market perspective and from a consumer perspective, it was

hard to deny it, right?

It was hard to deny it because it was like, this is real.

It's viable.

It's a, it's a win, win scenario and a win for all parties who'd be involved.

Why not?

Right.

The fans want it.

The fighters want it.

And, and moreover, the numbers were speaking for themselves from an analytics

perspective.

So that allowed us to really use what the two fighters were intelligently doing on

a very instinctive level, right?

There wasn't plan that wasn't scripted.

It was very instinctive.

But moreover, I think what my job is, is to look at the data and be like, right,

there's something very viable here.

There's something that, you know, you have to be able to take and continue to,

to, to advocate and push for your client because you could effectively have a

successful business opportunity, even for the UFC.

And so that I think it took them a while to come around, but eventually they did

because they realized there was just such amazing and intense interest around

this event that it was real.

It wasn't a gimmick.

It was something that everybody wanted to see.

And so I think that was a credit to them too, because again, it went against all

their, their, their normal business practice.

They'd never done something like that before.

And it took, you know, I think for them to see the substance of it all, to

then move forward with us.

And ultimately it was a huge success.

I mean, over four million buys.

I mean, I think there's probably, there's something, there was some report

I remember receiving.

It was like hundreds of millions of illegal streams.

I mean, like, it was still a bit over four million buys.

You know what I mean?

Like, so could you imagine if like, it was the most bootleg fight ever?

Yeah.

If we would have just been able to even just plug some of those holes and how

many more buys we would have had, right?

But I mean, it was such a commercial success.

I mean,

Can I ask you a quick question about those buys?

Yeah.

So you said, you said four million buys.

I'm not, I'm not attacking this strictly about this fight.

But when I see pay-per-view numbers, like with the headlines are, I think most

of them are complete bullshit.

I think that with a fighter says, like, for example, I remember Floyd has

multiple times said he's earned nine figures.

So a hundred plus million off of one one fight.

And I think I've seen Conor say, I think he was just talking shit, but he's

like, oh, I'm making this much money off this Cowboy Seroni fight.

I think those are nonsense.

And the reason I think they're nonsense is it's almost like a rapper bragging

about how much money they have.

And it's like, you're not, it's part of your brand.

And also no one's incentivized like Dana or Showtime or HBO.

They're not incentivized to like tell the public that.

Yeah, this dude's full of shit.

We gave him $2 million.

He didn't earn $20 million off this thing.

Oh, well, I know.

Let me, let me get this public information.

That's a loaded, because there's certain elements of that, you know, could be

hypothetically true.

But for example, compensation is not fully reported.

When you're talking about UFC, particularly MMA, like that's not

fully reported what the persons will be at the highest level.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Oh, so it's actually more.

It's even that true.

Because it's just what's reported to the commission and assuming that

they don't have, let's call it another agreement.

So that's actually in terms of pay-per-view, there's a speculation.

So for example, main back in particular, there was, you know, I think there

was rumors that were starting to trickle in that it did over 60 million

buys or something to that extent, you know what I mean?

But it landed in like the four, three, four, four range.

And that's, no, that's actual, right?

I mean, ultimately, you know, that's, those are not fudge numbers.

And so what you were hearing about what potentially Connor made and potentially

Floyd made, on our side, I know it's more true.

On the Floyd side, I don't know if he divulges who he splits it with or, you

know, what that, what that looks like on his side.

So I can't comment on his, right?

But UFC was our partner.

So I know what they're reporting for Connor was Connors.

What was reported, I think was 30 to Connor and a hundred to Floyd.

Was that what was reported?

I don't think so.

But maybe, I mean, in terms of what you're talking about, reported to

the, the commission of the papers.

No, no journalist ever actually like breaks that down.

You know what I mean?

So that's what I'm saying.

Like these numbers are so high.

And I hear that.

And I was higher.

I think for, for, I think it was for certainly higher for Connor than I know.

And, and, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around

there or higher, just depending on what he did again.

Wow.

You really think that a hundred million was true.

Well, I mean, Connor was, you know, I'd say just under a hundred, right?

When it's all said and done.

So that's his part.

So again, he has a part, we had a partner in the UFC.

So, and I won't get into the specifics, but yeah.

So for Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have

pulled in a hundred, assuming that he, he didn't take it on.

Didn't have partners.

You split, right?

You're a business guy.

So you see what Floyd did in the boxing business, where he basically

became his own promoter, runs his own, runs his own ship so that he can take

the lion's share of, of the revenue or the profits that come from an event.

Where like in the past guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed

because they're out there fighting, generating all this demand that they

look at 10 years later, they're like, where's all the money?

And the promoter is basically enriched themselves in that way.

And obviously the UFC is totally different.

It's like a league.

It works differently.

But a guy like Connor is essentially as big of a brand as the UFC, the UFC.

Like, you know, let's say it's debatable.

They're in the same, like they're the same like air.

And if Connor McGregor was to go do a fight on YouTube, Pay Per View or

whatever he wanted to do, he could pull the same numbers as a UFC card

without the UFC's promotion.

Do you think like, I guess when you see what Floyd did, do you think anybody's

ever going to do that with the UFC or in MMA, where they're going to become

their own promoter and have their own shows?

I think the sport is still young and is still evolving, right?

And while the UFC is to some extent synonymous to a league as a promotion,

it's still structured to some extent, you know, like price fighting, right?

There's still Pay Per View.

And even though there's rankings, sometimes you'll see the rankings are

not, it's not true meritocracy because it's still price fighting and

entertainment to some extent, right?

And I think that they have come a long way, but they still have a long way

to go in terms of how much fighters could earn, should earn.

But the end of the day too, from a boxing perspective, I think that's why

boxing has been on the decline.

It's still fragmented, right?

And there's the end of the day, there's not a true promotion

that's stood the test of time.

I know top ranks have been around forever, right?

But who do they really have?

Matching seems to be doing more.

Obviously, Premier is still around and still, PBC is still competing,

but you see it kind of fragmented, right?

Canelo fight for matchroom one for a couple fights, and I'm fighting for

PBC for a fight.

And the difference is though, I think in boxing, promotions could fight each

other, and so they have to agree on that, right?

I think in MMA, it's going to continue to evolve, right?

You now have the ability, can Connor do that?

Of course, I think Connor is one of probably the only person

who carries his own show.

It's very difficult to do, right?

It's hard to go, how many million tape-reviewed sellers are there in either sport?

Not a lot.

You know, it's not that easy to do.

So I think that from a UFC perspective, they've always looked at it as like,

look, we're building something that's sustainable.

And they are correct in that regard, but I think that fighters definitely

should have a bigger piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow,

which I think they've come a long way, but they still have a long way to go,

right?

Yeah, I was going to say, you know, the other group that's trying to do their

own shows is the kind of Jake Paul, Logan Paul style thing, where they're doing

these kind of like kind of celebrity matches, high interest fights, and getting

people to buy paper views for that seems to honestly be working.

Like, you know, like, I don't know what you think about those guys, but I personally

used to be like, oh, you know, kind of wrote them off as just like kind of like

they were like in the jackass crowd of like the YouTube generation, the

Vine generation.

And then they said they were going to do this boxing thing.

Who knows how seriously they'll take it.

But honestly, like, they've done a good job of actually like building up

interest and pulling these events off and being like respectable, showing up

very respectably and winning several of these fights.

You can't hate on them, man.

You can't hate on them.

Me, you're putting me tied.

Actually, our client, Dylan Danis, is fighting Logan Paul coming up.

Dylan Danis is your client?

Oh my God.

That is so funny.

Are you the genius behind his current marketing strategy?

Is that your, did you sign off on that?

No, no, no, that's all I'm doing.

I thought you might have been his client.

There's a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dylan are getting into it.

And Nate, there was a beer on Dylan.

And I saw you in the video trying to be like the father in the whole, like,

you're like, hey, Nate, Dylan, if you guys please walk away.

Is that good?

Didn't work out.

My kids didn't listen.

You know, but no, I, you know, you got to give those guys credit.

I mean, look, I think they're, they're, they're putting in time in their

craft, they're, they're going in there and, and they're not only, you know,

taking a shot at risk it, you know, I could argue that they're not really

doing it against real boxers.

That's true.

You know, I think they're being more strategic.

And, but, you know, again, credit has to go to Connor, right?

Who created that trend?

Who started that?

It was West versus Mayweather.

And then now, I mean, even if Floyd goes and fights someone else, he doesn't

get the same result without it being another two, two A side guys facing each other.

And while I give all of them credit to, I don't think you've seen this

blockbuster event that anybody's been hoping for.

So, so at the end of the day, you know, there's a market, though.

There's an appetite from a consumer to go look at, you know, me and you, Sean,

I don't, I think we may only get a hundred people that tune in, but

on the left, there's a market there dreaming on YouTube.

Sam is going to have to pay.

He doesn't get to underestimate how many people want to see me get my ass up.

Side by my friend.

I think you're right.

You're right.

So what are the, they've been begging to get Connor in that there.

I think that that's the white whale that Jake Paul is chasing.

What is the percent chance that a fight between Conor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens?

I mean, right now, Connor's focused on Michael Chandler.

I'm saying ever, ever.

I can tell you, Floyd, Floyd, the rematch is there.

Logan Paul wants to fight him.

Jake Paul has a lot of possibilities, not zero.

Yeah, it's not zero.

It's just not top of mind right now.

Right. So you need to take off your sports jacket.

You need to have a proper 12.

You need to like, I want the non-politician answer that you, you, you managers are so good.

I'd say the best of everything.

This is funny.

It's like, I wonder if I just wore a freaking street wear and, and, you know,

and died my hair, bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young folk rock

kid, you know, if everybody would really just hear what I'm saying,

the Steve's not bullshit.

I'm just telling you the truth.

Like if he's going to fight Michael Chandler next, right?

It's not.

And we're not thinking about that, you know what I mean?

But ultimately, of course, we know he wants to fight.

Of course, we know it's there.

And of course, I think everybody keeps doing their thing.

It's going to be a market for it, right?

And so, well, let's talk about the, the biggest of these freak show fights

right now is Elon versus Zuck.

And it was one of those things that like, in our world, it's like, that's never

happened in the kind of business and tech world.

And then Dana comes out and kind of certifies it.

He's like, no, they want it to happen.

We're talking to them.

We might make it happen.

We're just, yeah, but he always does that.

Exactly.

It's Dana White.

So you never know.

Uh, but, you know, it was interesting that he got a little bit more heat from that.

What's your take on that?

And again, same question.

He does that, but I don't know if Dana would have gone on a limb

if he hadn't really talked to both, right?

I mean, well, I'm sure he talked to both, but I know, I don't think that he

would have done that, you know, and, and even Zuck training with fricking, you

know, a bunch of different fighters, Izzy and Volk and, and John Jones and,

and then, uh, Elon bringing in GSP and, and do you believe it'll happen?

And if so, I believe Zuck would be down.

Yeah.

Catchweight, whatever.

It doesn't matter.

Yes, I agree.

Like I think Zuck is down.

Zuck is, uh, is, is, is truly, you know, training.

And regardless of this fight or not, he's in there.

Does that mean you think Elon might not be down?

Cause that's our theory here on this podcast is that Elon wants to talk about it.

Look, from the outside looking in and all the information that I have, which is

probably less the way you have being in the tech world, you guys have some

fricking secret telegram groups and shit.

Who told you about that?

Dude, for knowing you or like knowing what I think of you, you're probably

going to be bad at it.

You know, I'm like, yeah, I'm definitely going to pursue them, you know,

but so long as we get some rights, not just transactional, we got to build

something together, you know, but, no, but I, I, I think it's up to Elon.

I truly think it's up to Elon, you know, and I don't know.

Do you think Dana came out and said, if it happens,

they probably looked at the numbers though for both X and threads are like,

this is great.

Yeah, but Zucks more serious.

Like, no, don't talk about it.

I saw those techs exchanges and all that kind of stuff that kind of

were leaked and like I said, Zucks, Zucks, Zucks, Zucks, Zucks about it.

He's not, he's not bullshitting, you know, Dana has said, if it happens, it

would be the biggest fight ever.

He thinks it would surpass Floyd Pacquiao.

It would surpass Floyd Connor.

He thinks it would be that because it's just like, you know,

the freak of all freak shows in that sense, like it crosses over into so many

different, like fan bases or domains, you get all the combat force people,

but you'd also get the business people to watch.

I think so.

I think so.

And I think it would also be the satisfied ever.

Yeah, it'd also be really lame to watch.

It was actually, it was actually, it was actually kind of fucked up the way

Elon was all about it.

And then all of a sudden it's like, it's not going to be the U.S.

day. It's going to be charity.

Like, wait a second, you can't play along all this fucking time.

And then, and then all of a sudden pull the rug, you know what I mean?

Like, did you see the video of him curling a 40 or he had like a 20 pound

or 40 pound weight at his office and he did a live Twitter where he was,

he's like, I'm curling to prepare.

It's like, no, I swear to God, if you think doing curls at your desk

is how you prepare, you're, this is not going to be good.

Sport, buddy, sport, man.

You know, I didn't see that.

That's funny.

That's hilarious.

Dude, I want to ask you, let me ask you about some other slick guys.

So basically a lot of people who don't watch the UFC, they don't know that.

So Dana's the front guy, you know, he's doing a lot of the match

setting and he does all the talking and he seems like a wonderful businessman.

But the Fratida brothers interest me most because they were, I think,

I think Dana only owned like four or six percent of it when it sold.

But the Fratida brothers owned most all of it, besides some outside money

because they were already wealthy.

But they seem like those guys, they don't do a lot of interviews

and they're a little bit behind the scenes.

They seem like sharks.

Have you learned anything interesting from the two brothers and Dana about business?

Well, so obviously, look, they sold their business now, right?

Endeavor ended up, you know, William Morris at the time, they bought it.

But I had the pleasure of being able to, you know, deal

across from Lorenzo Fratida on particularly on a couple clients,

particularly Connor, obviously at that level.

And they're very savvy businessmen, very, very composed.

You know, it's not it's the dynamic when I'm on the opposite side.

Naturally, it's adversarial a lot of the time, right?

And so, you know, at the end of the day, I'm advocating for my client.

So it's it's I'm not their best friend, right?

It's not like they're going to invite me over for Christmas.

And and but but we do have we did have a respectful relationship.

And I really, really enjoyed dealing with someone, you know,

that has been not only stressful in our sport and a pioneer in it,

but was a super successful businessman in the casino business and other businesses as well.

So you learn you learn from the interactions and the dealings

and the negotiations that you're doing.

Like, for example, when Mayweather McGregor happened,

and we basically got what we were achieving or striving for from a negotiation,

like kind of I really we had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo's office,

we're like, fucking did it, you know, it was like a moment, right?

And so do you guys like keep a straight face till you get to the parking lot?

Yeah, you get like giddy.

It's our hug and a chip.

Well, in the meeting, in the office, you have the smirk, you know,

you don't get really right.

And then, yeah, when you get in the car, you celebrate, you know.

But yeah, man, I think it's the human shit.

I think that's what people don't realize.

I mean, it's like it's the same in all sectors, all sports.

And even the most composed person that doesn't do any interviews,

I'm sure have had those moments in their own, you know, journeys as well, right?

I read on front office sports, I think it's called.

It's like a sports publication that the final exit for

proper 12 was six hundred million dollars.

And I think that was only four years after you started it.

It's six hundred million dollars in the ballpark.

Three years.

And I can tell you, listen,

if it's probably printed, then you've got to go with that

because I can't necessarily comment on the specific numbers.

But we're still involved, too.

It's not, you know, at the end of the day, it's it's we we're still,

you know, part of the team, we're still pushing it to grow the brand.

We just came out with a new flavor, our Irish apple flavor, which is amazing.

You know, dangerously amazing, too.

Because I, you know, you just it drinks and it goes down so easy.

But yeah, man, I'm super proud of that.

Was that was that like a new level for you, wealth wise?

And I mean, or were you able to make money a little bit along the way?

You know, I think that was a whole another level, right?

That was a whole another level where you're able to achieve, you know,

your your your your, you know, your ultimate goals, right?

But ultimately, too, you're you're you're proving your concept.

You know what I mean?

Like ultimately, like we're not having to go sell the platform.

We're creating liquidity events by creating opportunities left and right.

And that's just for clients.

Now we're creating ventures that are, you know, creative to the platform.

We have a smart basketball technology called who we have, you know,

some other ventures in the pipeline that are coming out that are very,

very much focused on on advocacy for the entire sport and creating something.

Well, we're putting our own capital in these things to create

opportunities for everybody else, right?

And so and there's other things that we're creating specifically for our

clients, right?

So, you know, in lieu of of of of of, you know, having the opportunity

to invest or, you know, an athlete, not maybe not having the brand equity

to go start the old venture, how can we bring them along to ride with us?

You know, for the next proper 12 us, if you will, right?

I always like to ask people this because I remember, you know, when you start

out in business, typically you have kind of nothing to your name.

And you've got this literally nothing credit card debt, like nothing.

So you start at zero or usually you go below zero.

You dip below zero for a period of 20 below zero.

Well, the funny thing is, and this is what people don't appreciate.

Like my wife now, she was my girlfriend and she had a job.

And we were literally back now credit cards.

And for the first seven years of paradigm, I didn't take a paycheck.

I was paying team members and staff before I was paying myself.

And I think people lose time to that, you know, it's like, but then when you

have huge success, you still try to do right, take care of people.

But even that's sometimes no good deed goes unpunished, right?

But ultimately the it's a war of attrition.

You have to be able to withstand all of it and really believe in what you're doing.

And, you know, you should sandwiches daily.

Right.

On your way there, you know what I'm getting at?

You eat these sandwiches for, in your case, seven years.

In my case, I remember like sort of eight or nine years straight of just

like in my case, it was just kind of failure.

But like in your case, at least you were building it up.

And then you finally have the moment where it's kind of like validated,

realized a payday comes in, you get a windfall along the way.

And like financially, sure, that's exciting.

And things change at a logical level.

But before it hits the logical level, there's kind of the emotional level of like,

what does that feel like?

What thoughts go through your head at that time?

We had a guy come on the pod.

He's like, dude, I used to just every day for the next week, I just drove to the bank

and I would just go in the ATM, put my card in and say print receipt

because I just wanted to see it.

And he's like, I didn't even have anything.

James, he's like, I didn't even have anything I wanted to spend it on.

He's like, I was just I was just amazing to look at that

because I knew the seven year or whatever the years that go in to not not

being there, not having that.

And we had other people that are like, you know, oddly numb feeling.

I didn't feel anything.

And other people are like, you know, I had a conversation with myself.

I said, all right, now I'm here.

Here's this pivotal conversation I had myself.

So I always like to ask people about that moment

because I think there's usually something interesting that happens.

It's not just like just another day.

So it's surreal to me because, you know, on on one end, it happened

during COVID. So it was a real fuck.

It was a weird fucking time for all of us, right?

And, you know, you you you you you get there.

And honestly, it's like you're pinching yourself.

And, you know, because it's a new age, you don't have to necessarily

go to the bank account to print the receipt anywhere.

You could just look at that.

I surely did not a few times like what, you know?

But also like you have to make decisions like I we we hired more people.

We gave people raises.

We gave people bonuses that had nothing to do with that part of the business.

And and we invested back in the business.

And so I was first thing I bought was my mom, my house and a car.

And so I like, you know, I was trying to really, you know, stay grounded,

you know what I mean?

And more importantly, like try to do right, you know, as best as you can

by for those that are important to you, both family and on your team, right?

And ultimately, still like just enjoy the moment because we were kind

of everybody locked in at home.

It was, you know, every night, it was for my wife and I was just surreal.

And it's like, you know, then you start to think about, OK, well,

you tell your kids, you know, how do you raise them right way?

How do you make sure I'm hungry and you know what I mean?

It's not about that.

A lot of things change, right?

Because it's like you get there and you start to realize

you've got to start planning, thinking and and acting differently.

But then also other unintended issues start to come up, you know,

like, you know, I forgot more money, more problems is true, you know,

at the end of the day, what problems just a lot of different things.

I think people want shit, people want shit.

I don't think people think that they deserve shit.

Unappreciative people, no matter what you give them, you know,

they just unfortunately have a self inflated view.

You know, I think there's a whole list of issues that come up with it, right?

That's the reality.

But it is you got to take the good, the bad, the ugly and just keep rolling

to bunches and level up and level up and evolve.

That's what it is.

I thought you were going to say you had a red panty night.

I was I was waiting for it. That was the.

You said it for me. I did.

And you had two bites of the apple, right?

If I remember correctly, like, I think you guys,

did you guys sell a portion of the of the business early on?

And I think you sold half of it and then another, I don't know if it was

the half or the rest or another big chunk. Yeah. Right. Yep.

Was it a hard decision to sell or did you have 600 million reasons?

I mean, it was, I mean, look, first of all, it was an amazing

of the time, but always after the fact, you're like, now we still have,

we're still part of the business.

So we can still keep making a lot of money into the next decade

or in longer, you know, at the end of the day.

Because it's always difficult to think about, oh, what it should have

could have, right? But you've got to be able to count, you know,

the fortunes of it all, you know, and be grounded in that positive reality.

It's not a negative thing. You know, it's very easy to always

Monday morning, morning quarterback, something like, oh, we shouldn't have

sold because there's this and that.

You have those regrets, which I think is normal, by the way.

I think most people who may be most, I think who they sell,

you all, if you sell it right, you tend to sell early, right?

I mean, that tends to happen.

I think I think the way we structured the deal allows us to really

not only made a ton of money, but we just continue to make a ton of money.

And and, you know, ultimately, have I had those thoughts?

Sure, you always think about it.

And because for me, it's more so, OK, it's about execution, right?

So not only to be executed, but then how's the deal, how's the terms,

how's this, how's that, you know, so I'm kind of like constantly watching

this film to make sure that I'm learning and growing as an entrepreneur,

because I'm not resting on my laurels either.

I'm not done, right?

And so I'm still playing the game while you play the game.

You got to be able to not only celebrate the victories, but watch

the tape back and see where you could have gotten better, right?

That's the only way you're going to be the best at what you do.

So I have a partner who a business partner who basically he was he

was already successful before, but his second company, he was about to get

a $200 million check for the sale.

And it was like a one of those like click baby websites on Facebook

that showed like top 10 lists.

And then Facebook changed the algorithm and the sale sale dropped

from 200 million to like 30 million.

And it was just a massive issue because of platform risk.

And there's a lot of fear of platform risk.

Do you do you view Connor as like your platform risk?

Like if he really because he gets in trouble sometimes,

he gets accused of a lot of stuff.

Sometimes maybe he actually did do it.

Sometimes he didn't do it.

Do you get nervous about platform risk with Connor of like, shit,

if he does something really bad, I'm, I'm fucked.

Yeah.

Well, he's been accused of a lot of things and he's never been that's

best of the facts, right?

But obviously there's always risk and everything.

And I think when you look at, you know, such a, you know, Connor's

kind of like an enigma, right?

And so there's certainly going to be those that may be diverse

and not want to do anything, but at the end of the day, whoever

gets involved with us understands the McGregor brand, right?

And understands inherent risks that potentially come with that.

But ultimately they also look at the track record and that is always

going to win the day, right?

Cause you could make all these claims, accusation, whatever, but ultimately

with the facts of the facts and the results of the results and the data is the data.

So I think when you look at all those things, some of all parts is why we

have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners and we continue

to incubate and launch other exciting businesses and around the kind of brand.

For me, he's the biggest client.

He's the, he's also the top one percent, you know, pop culture brand in the world.

So it's like, unless I go inside the other people in that small bucket, if you will,

he's always going to have, he's always going to have, you know, that, that let's

call it, you know, proportionate risk value across my platform, right?

But ultimately we're also, you know, much more than just one client and we're

building something that for me is into the future, right?

Sean, do you see what happened with Barstool?

So basically Barstool Sports sold to a betting company, a pen, yeah.

And I don't remember the final sale, 600 million plus, Dave made a killing.

I think he got stocked, I think, right?

A lot of stock.

Yeah, he got a lot of stock.

I think he got some, I think he was able to sell some.

I know, I know that the on Wall Street, you could see that he did sell a little bit.

And he basically, after three years, Penn was like, shit, you guys are insane.

Like you're, it's really hard for us to do like, because we're regulated as a casino.

It's really hard to let you do what you want to do without hurting us.

And ESPN wants to do this big deal with us, but they won't do it for with Barstool.

You know what, Dave, here, look, just have the company back.

And if you ever sell it again, we get half of the profit.

Cool.

And in exchange, we're going to do this ESPN deal, which is going to boost our stock.

We're good.

It was like the greatest coup of all time of like, you know, Dave getting Dave selling

it and then them just saying, here, actually, we don't want this.

You know, maybe we have a world where the buyer of proper 12 is like,

Hey, this was cool and all, but you know what?

You could just have it.

It's yours now.

You can have it now.

I think I was brilliant.

It's a great move for him.

And I think he still has Penn stock too.

So then the stock goes up and he went in again.

So good for him.

Yeah.

Then that's an interesting sector where we're getting ready to enter into as well.

So that's a, I'm interested to see what they do with it now, right?

Barstools and see what they end up, who they end up, you know, partnering with to try

to get that off the ground.

You probably, I'm guessing you kind of studied other people who had talent like

this, like, I don't know if you're in a group chat with like Scooter Braun and

like, you know, John Chihiti or some of these managing, you know, the sort of the

big stars, those same top 1% kind of like people who can move the needle.

John's a, John's a, John's a friend.

I don't know Scooter, but John's a friend.

Who's John?

What's his last name?

The guy who manages the NELT boys now.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John's and stuff.

Um, yeah.

So he's, he has, he has probably, he has, he has like a dozen or so, some of the

top podcasts and personalities, you know, he's, he's, he's a, he's certainly

a entrepreneurial respect.

And he, um, and so you, you kind of studied them a little bit.

If somebody was studying you and they see what you're doing with Connor and how

you built, like, I'm just going to name them off.

So you did a whiskey brand, proper 12.

You have Netflix documentaries and like entertainment that way.

You have Roadhouse, just like the new movie coming out.

You have the August McGregor, the, the suit lines.

You have title, which is like those recovery spray.

You have the fast app, which is like fitness, like app plus, and I think like

gyms coming or whatever, like, you know, something like that.

Like a fitness brand that obviously fits.

Hey, we have actually have an event based, uh, competition coming with three

called three KO.

So that's going to be, you know, think of, of Spartan race meets, meets, meets, uh,

CrossFit games, you know.

Very cool.

So you have that.

You have, uh, I think it's like a mobile game that he's in.

You get, you do like kind of the, the celebrity fight with Mayweather's.

There's all these different things you've done around that person, that brand.

And I'm sure some of them worked amazingly and some of them probably were

too much work for what they were worth.

And you just, you learn as you go, right?

You're not, I doubt you, you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had

everything right from day one.

No way, no way, right?

So if somebody was studying you or somebody had, you know, it was, it was,

it was with the next McGregor was with another star creator.

Would you, what would be your kind of like advice to that person?

How would you advise them based on your learnings of the last 10 years of trying

to figure this out?

Yeah.

I mean, first and foremost, I'm still learning, right?

I'm still learning.

I'm still growing.

What I would say is, you know, you have to be ready to, uh, you know, not only

dream, but act on those dreams, right?

And come prepared from a research and preparation perspective, building out a

plan and be fluid because it's not always going to go to plan, right?

But if you're prepared and you do have a plan, you're, you're likely more, you

know, you're likely to execute, even if you have to deviate a little bit because

you have to stay fluid with what reality hits you with, right?

Um, you have to also have thick skin men.

Like at the end of the day, it's a war of attrition.

You're going to eat shit sandwiches daily for a long time.

And so you got to be able to withstand that with a smile, but be able to see

through all the noise, the pressure, and more importantly, have that ability to

communicate with that, with that client, right?

Cause you guys got to stay in sync in terms of what you're building.

Um, I would say, you know, one of the things I wish that we've done, build a

team around you that's more experienced than you, right?

Because ultimately, I think that that's what's going to allow you to

accelerate your plan as opposed to bringing people and then having to deal

with other things like those people turning on you for one reason or another.

How big is the paradigm team?

It's still boutique.

So we're about 15 on the whole core level, but then every

brand co if you will, uh, has his own respective team, right?

Um, and what I would also say is, you know, don't, don't stop innovating, right?

Um, don't stop trying to create new opportunities that have to align, right?

With their client, right?

Organically, but you got to make sure you're able to clearly define that.

What's your criteria?

So like you've gone into these 10 different categories.

How do you pick which category to go into?

What, what is it?

Well, first of all, I have to align organically, right?

And they have to have a genuine interest because you can't sell something that's

fake.

I mean, everybody thought, and it's another thing.

Everybody thought proper told was going to be a gimmick until they tried it.

It's obviously, if you don't drink, you don't drink, but as you try it, you're

going to be, oh my God, this is great.

Make sure we created a substantive brand, right?

It wasn't going to be just something that we just put a space on it and try to sell.

And that's important.

I know to him as well.

And that's why he believes in, in, in the ventures that, that, that, uh, that

he's involved with.

He's very passionate, but it's, they're of substance as well.

They're quality.

So you have to understand the market.

You have to understand the players in the market.

You have to understand how you fit in or how you can disrupt the market and grab

market share, and you have to put a plan together that allows you to have a

higher probability of success with the black belts that are going to help you

operate the business, you know, and then having all the other components that

making sure that you could actually build a product or service or substance.

By the way, did you ever consider just putting his name on it?

It's like, you have like, uh, Jameson or Johnny Walker or Jack Daniels.

Like McGregor's name is so famous.

It's interesting brand decision.

It's actually take, it's taken.

We didn't think about that, but there's a, there's a, the McGregor clan, I think

it's a Scotch, I'm not mistaken.

So that, that was certainly considered.

We, we also considered notorious Irish whiskey at one point.

Right.

Um, and, and, you know, again, even early, earlier days.

No, proper 12 is a good name.

Proper 12 is a great name.

Again, what's it mean?

Like the, is it like the 12 districts of Dublin or something?

Dublin 12, so each, let's call it borough or city where the Dublin is, is a

number and where he's from is Dublin 12.

And so, and proper, I mean, they would say that was a proper night out.

You know, like, uh, it was proper, good time.

And, um, so it's, you know, proper number 12.

That just made sense for the brand.

And again, after pivoting several groups and finding the right partners, you know,

we came up with the brand together and.

Sean and I are big fans of, of words, you know, like, we'll hear someone say

something and we're like, oh man, the language they use was beautiful.

That was really good language, whether it's writing or just someone talking.

The cool thing about Connors, he's, he's got a beautiful vocabulary and beautiful

timing and beautiful phrasing.

So he uses wonderful words.

And so like, I remember when he was fighting Jose, although he would talk about like, he

was like, if this was another time I would storm your pavilla.

And then he like talks about like what he would do to them.

And, uh, like he, he, like, you know, the whole red panty night, like he just has like

really funny, catchy phrases.

I guess Trump kind of did this too, where he just like, they're just really

catchy stuff.

Are you guys ever just shooting the shit?

And you're like, oh, that's a line.

We're going to have to, we're going to have to use that very naturally.

Going back to the acumen.

I mean, that is stuff that it's not rehearsed.

It's very much stuff that he just comes up with.

But we'd be there and he'd say some stuff like, that was hilarious.

That's another, that's another McGregor ism.

You're like, put that in the bank.

Use that one.

I have two fan service questions that are around that.

Number one, during the Mayweather press tour, which was just like, that was,

that was so much fun.

But it looked like, cause all UFC press tours are the same.

You go, you sit and they ask you questions and then you react.

Whereas that one was like stand up and give a speech and it almost looked

like Connor was almost ambushed.

Like, oh, I just got to give a 20 minute improvised speech in front of millions

of people right now.

And then he kind of did it.

Was that an ambush?

I always wanted to see, no idea what the format was going to be like.

And Sam, yes, it was exactly at the time, but just thinking back to it.

And the timing kind of comes up from whether it's the, you know,

and you had the birth three, whatever it may be.

It was such a great experience, man.

And it was like once in a lifetime thing because, you know, Sean,

it, there was no format.

It's your point.

I don't know if he felt ambushed, but certainly we're like, Oh, what?

How is it for this one?

How is it for that one?

Right.

But the energy of all of them was out of this world.

And so I think that they fed off that energy, which gave them the ability

to deliver these legendary lines.

They answered back and forth.

I remember watching it and it was clear that he was like, wait,

there's no fucking questions.

I just have to, I just have to go.

Okay.

I'm a comedian now.

All right.

Bet.

And he said this line.

He goes, you know, they, they've tried everything.

They didn't tell us the format.

My microphone doesn't work.

They're trying to put me in a uncomfortable situation, but they don't know.

I thrive in uncomfortable situations.

I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech.

I really love that line.

That was, that was great.

But I also have another kind of fans service question on almost the other side

of the coin.

So as you can tell me and Sam, both fans of you, of the UFC, of Connor, like we,

we really, uh, it took a lot of inspiration from some of the, you know,

it's just a badass thing to go out there and just fight and, and put yourself

on the line like that every single time.

There's something to be admired on that for sure.

And I think Connor came in with a very, uh, like at the beginning, how could

you hate the guy?

Like he was, he was bold.

He came from nowhere.

He was like, you know, this guy who was like, you know, apprentice plumber and

then was like, all of a sudden beating everybody exactly this way.

He said he would.

His fighting style was electric.

Like there was nothing to dislike about the guy I thought on the, on the come

up, uh, I'm sure some people did, but like the majority of fans I think were,

were, were on the come up or just like, this guy's incredible.

And then there's sort of almost like a heel turn now where, um, I know a lot

of people who I watch fights with, they're sort of feel like he's kind of jumped

the shark like, oh, you know, now he's this like, first of all, she's like

super jacked now in this huge way.

He's like more of a boxer.

He's, he hasn't fought in a long time.

You know, he talks trash.

Maybe he's crossing the line too much.

Oh, he's getting in trouble.

Like there's all these things that honestly, like, I know he's your client

and he's your friend and probably never gonna say a bad word about him.

But I think there are some fair criticisms that like, you know, it's

understandable why somebody who was a super fan might now feel like, uh, you

know, I can't really, you know, get behind everything that I'm, that I'm

seeing here, um, do you think about that at all?

And do you, uh, I guess like, what's your reaction to that?

I don't really know how to phrase the question, but I feel like you're one

of the few people on earth who would have an opinion about this that I would

really care to hear.

I mean, look, it's just like you are engaged with these conversations.

Naturally, I'm going to hear everything, right?

From people around me, you know, whether it's my friends or there's family.

And ultimately what I'll say is this, like, you know, everybody's

entitled to their own opinion.

I know who the person is.

And obviously I do have an intimate relationship.

It's something that's more than just transactional.

It's more than just a client and business partner.

Someone that I'm, I'm loyal to has been loyal to me.

And so at the end of the day, you know, I know that history, once it's

done being written, will be interpreted by everybody differently.

He's definitely not perfect.

He's definitely made mistakes.

A lot of the criticism, too, is subjective.

It's based on where, where you stand and what you believe in or what you

want to see, et cetera.

But A, A never been legally, all those accusations have not been legally

found to be true, right?

B, it was a cleanest and most tested athlete before he got out of the

soda pool and when he returns to fighting, he's going to do it the right

way and everything's going to be legal.

So everybody can say what they want to say.

There's nothing that was done wrong, right?

And so he's, he's constantly being vilified because ultimately the

stuff that they loved him for, he still does.

They'll outspoken, they'll says what's on top of his mind, but maybe

because he has the riches now and it's not the rags anymore.

Sometimes we try to tear some people down.

I don't know why I can't tell you, right?

But ultimately I do know proofs in the pudding, he has to continue to go

out there and show that he could continue to evolve, be the best version of

himself, not just athletically, but as a human being as well.

And ultimately that's on him to do.

And I can't do that for him.

You can't do that for him, but criticism is going to come.

And when you're, when you're in the public eye, you got to be ready to, to

take it on.

And at the end of the day, heavy's the head that wears the crown.

You can't just want the good and not take the bad with it.

So ultimately that's something that we constantly talk about.

Something that I know he says, I say to him, we talk about, he understands

that, but it doesn't make it easy.

It doesn't make it easy because ultimately it's like, you know, you

talk about that, the aha moment, and I don't know how many entrepreneurs

you've had on this podcast, but when they have that big moment, they don't

need to be seen by their everybody.

They're probably enjoying it with nobody watching them, or if they go

somewhere, nobody really recognizes who they are, right?

Myself included.

So ultimately it's very different.

And that doesn't, you know, essentially absolve him of the

responsibility that he has to take upon himself in certain instances.

But more importantly, it makes me understand pressure is real, not only

to win and succeed, but another level to live your life so visibly for

everybody to just critique every little thing in today's world, man.

Everybody has an opinion, you know, you guys, before you met me, you

thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared visibly, or

visually to you without ever talking to me before, right?

So it's like very easy and fast judgment based on whatever your

belief system is, how you were raised, your experiences with someone

that looked like me, whatever it may be, or your opinions of agents,

just because you watch Andros and Pollars.

But I can't change that ultimately, right?

And so when you live in today's world like that for everybody to critique,

man, it's going to come with not just the good, but the bad and the

ugly as well, and you got to deal with it.

I like the fan questions, you know, this is, it's fun.

We've had Ariel Hohani on here, you know, we've become friendly.

We've been asked, and I think we've talked to Mike Bisbing.

We've talked to a bunch of folks.

It's, you know, Sean and I are super fans, so it's always fun to like

get like the insider.

How many fights have you guys been to in person?

I've only been to three or four.

I think there's, the in-person event is definitely like the best

in-person sporting event.

But in my opinion, if you're like a, like a nerd and a true fan fan,

it's so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on, and to

like, to see like the replay of the Sean Malley knockout on Saturday.

Like it was really awesome to be able to like see it close up.

There is one challenge with UFC, which is that the cage and the

cameraman on every post of the cage does kind of screw up the viewing

experience, depending on where you're at.

Like I'm sure if you're right next to the right ring side, it maybe you

don't have that issue, but like we went to one event at the Vegas place, the

one where Mazvedal need aspirin into like, you know, you know, the next realm.

And, uh, and, you know, the guy, I saw it, but the guy next to me, like

literally couldn't even see the thing because it was like a split.

It was like in the first five seconds of the fight.

And secondly, like, you know, just because of the cage, like if you go to a

football game or a basketball game, it's open field.

It's, you know, it's very easy to see what's going on, whereas you're

almost watching on the Dembotron.

Well, it's interesting.

First of all, I think, look, there are pros and cons to your

both your points, the energy of big fights is something else.

It's election.

I mean, just the walkouts and the crowd and you feel it.

And then you hear the thuds and, you know, it's like, it's, it's pretty,

pretty amazing.

I was at a Jorge and Nate and it was like spectacular.

Right.

But you, it just, it's just nice to be able to like, you got to go home and

watch the replay again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But then from a view perspective, to your point, unless you're like the

first few rows of the floor, it's actually that the, the, the mid

low riser, which is the perfect view because you're looking into the

octagon, but you're still really fairly close.

And I think that's the best view live, right?

But nonetheless, no matter where your seats are, I think for big, big, big

events, the, the electricity of that place is something else, you know?

So what's going to happen?

Like I'm following this whole circus with Dylan, Dennis and Logan.

I've, I've never even seen Dylan, Dennis train.

I went and watched his two Bellacher fights, but that was like years ago.

What's going to happen?

Like, I don't know.

I've never even seen him spar or anything on like leading up videos.

What's going to happen on that?

I mean, then August, it's August 14th.

Logan is, is obviously has a leg up having, you know, box before, right?

Yeah, but that was years ago.

I think he's bigger.

No, listen, listen, I, I, I get it.

Um, you know, the fights actually scheduled October 14th, but, but Dylan

has made all the necessary, necessary adjustments to his life, his preparation.

But this is his boxing debut.

So he has to go in there and really prove it, right?

Now I can tell you the banter that's going back and forth.

I mean, you know, he's confident in his abilities and he's definitely

putting in the work.

So ultimately you don't, you don't make, you know, you don't take that

position at the banter that he's doing.

If you're not going in there with some level of confidence in yourself, right?

So, and I, and I'm sure it's given Logan a little bit more training for it,

right?

Cause ultimately it's, it's personal now, I would imagine, right?

Oh yeah.

Not even Connor, you know, King of Trash, Connor wouldn't even, he never even

went that far to talk about family.

I don't like that he's talking about family, but I like it in the sense of like,

I'm going to stare at it.

I'm a kid on the internet and I think it's funny too, you know, like it's too

far, but at the same time I'm like, but it's there.

You know what I mean?

I'm watching that.

I think what's interesting is the, you know, love it or hate it, the

engagement for that is through the roof.

And, you know, it should help show the fight.

And more importantly, like it's about now performing, right?

Cause ultimately you can talk all you want.

Now you've got to go in there, but he's made all the adjustments to his

life personally and professionally, which, which I'm very proud of him for doing

that will give him that, that, that high chance of winning this.

I think he's going to press and shock a lot of people.

People are not giving him enough credit.

And I think when he goes in there, it's, it's his time to shine.

Now he's put it, he's going to put, he's going to basically put his money

where his mouth is, because the mouth is getting it ready.

He's going to make people want to watch him love him.

Well, you, you were kind of implying you're like, well, it doesn't matter

unless he loses.

And I kind of disagree.

I think, I think he's already won whether he loses or, or not.

Like he's already got to, like from where he was starting to where he is now,

like, you know, he's already got the, it'll be okay.

He'll, even if he gets knocked out right away, he'll probably be better

off than where he was.

Oh, this is a great opportunity for him.

No doubt, no doubt.

Thanks for doing this, man.

Uh, where should people follow you if they want to get more?

Just, um, my first and last name at Audiotar, Twitter, Instagram, Threads.

Um, X, sorry.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah.

At Audiotar X, at Audiotar Threads, at Audiotar Instagram, I think one

of three still remain.

All right, Audiotar, thanks for doing this, man.

All right, just Sean, Sam, thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

And that's the pod.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.