My First Million: Laird Hamilton: The Big Wave Surfer Who Built a +$10 Million Business Empire

I used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about training.

So I'd be like, oh yeah, I can drink Pinot Noir, cup, you know, bottle,

two bottle, three bottles, no problem, eat dinner, go to sleep, wake up,

five a.m., train like an animal. What's the problem? No problem,

no problem, I don't see a problem. You could train hungover. Oh yeah, like an animal.

Yeah man, we're live, we just, we get things going and I can kind of fill you in.

You probably don't know anything about who we are, do you?

No, but that's not unusual. I don't know much about anything really.

Good. Hey, same. I mean, I've learned about you. I mean, I've, this podcast is called My First

Millions. Basically, I owned a fairly successful and big media company that I sold and one of our

products was this podcast and it's listened to by millions of people a month and it's mostly a

business podcast. I'm like a, I'm a health nut and a health nerd. I was a former college athlete.

So I'm going to talk to you all about like Laird Superfood and some of your businesses and stuff

like that. That's where we're going to spend most of the time. But the reason why I wanted to have

you on was because we have people, we normally don't have guests. Normally it's my co-host Sean

who's not here and someone was asking us like, who's your dream guest? And I was like, man,

Laird Hamilton, that's who I want. And they were like, why? And I was like, he, I had my description

as to why I liked you best, but you said it in another interview a while back. You said something

like your life is like a wheel and like business is one spoke. Health is another spoke. Relationships

is another one. And like there's all these spokes and like they all have to be nice in

order to make this whole wheel work. And I was like, oh man, that describes best why I like you

because you know, I like making money. I like being fit. I like having a lovely, lovely relationship

with my wife. I like doing all this stuff. And so I'm pumped to talk to you. This is a,

I'm normally never nervous to talk to anyone, but you're like when the first, maybe you and

Andrew Schuberman made me nervous to talk to you because like, I like, I admire you guys and I

look up to you guys. Well, I appreciate that. I'm, I'm, I'm thankful for that. I was talking to some

friends, telling them how I'm pumped that you're coming on and most people know who you are. But

then for the people who don't, I was, I was like, well, you know, he's done a lot of things. So I

don't even know how to describe you. I was like, he started as like a surfer and then like a big

wave surfer, then did some modeling and I always told my friends, I'm like, he's a hunk. You probably

recognize his face. He's a hunk. His face is all like you, because you're, you, you like represented

this quintessential surfer. But then you evolved where you and your wife now are quite popular

because you guys have this almost zen like attitude. And so a lot of people like, like me,

I turned to you just to hear like, what's your advice on living? You've also started

layered superfood. You have another fitness brand. What do you like, what would you say is

like, where are you now? And how do you kind of describe yourself in a sense or two is to

kind of your professional existence? I always, you know, because I, because of Hawaii, the way we

grew up, there was a lot of, you know, there was a, there's, I would say segregation, but I think

there's a lot of, just a lot of friction because you have all these different cultures. And I, so

my favorite description is somebody goes, well, you know, like, where are you from or something?

And I go, well, I'm a human from earth. So I'm a human from earth. And if you're something different,

then when, then we should probably sit down and have an incredible conversation. But otherwise,

let's get past that and then get into like, you know, what are these other things that we do?

You know, and I think it's, I think none of us are what we do. We are, we are who we are. And

then we do these other things. But I do, I do like, I mean, listen, I'm the water sports and, and,

fitness and, and, and health and wellness is, you know, I've kind of made a career out of that.

And so I do like, I've been fortunate to do that. That's been a, been a beautiful thing.

But I mean, I am concerned about, you know, being healthy and, and living a healthy lifestyle and,

you know, being a good example for my children, being, you know, having a good relationship.

I just, I just know, I feel best when I'm, when I'm, when I have all those things.

Yeah, I always knew you. I mean, I remember watching the doc, was it writing giants?

And a few, and a few other movies with you in it. And that's how I knew of you. And then I learned

about the layered superfood, the creamer. And I was like, Oh, this is great. So I've been a,

I've been a customer for years. But I never would have paid you as like a business guy. I remember

seeing you, maybe he was on some talk shows or something like that, where you had this like

electric golf, golf board, golf board. Yeah, the golf board. That was, that was awesome. And I'm

like, well, he's just like tinkering and inventing. And then I started looking at, then I saw,

layered superfoods go public. And I was like, and I remember reading the report, I was like, Oh,

shit, like we grew, I think when you went public, it was doing like something like 40 million a

year in sales. And I think it went public at a $400 million market cap. And I was like, Oh,

man, I never would have pictured this guy is like doing this stuff. What, what kind of, I know that

it was you, you were just tinkering with these mixes and a buddy of you, a buddy of yours was

like, All right, let's actually do this thing. But did you always kind of consider yourself

interested in going into business? Or was that just, what the hell? Let's just try it.

No, I mean, listen, early in my career, early in my career in surfing, I, I, I just, I looked at

like, you know, where the money was, like, where's the money in surfing. And at the, at the time,

it was in the apparel. It was in the apparel business. And so I went at kind of, I would say

18, 19, I got exposed to the apparel business went used to work in downtown Los Angeles in a,

in a, in a, a sweatshop learning from a Korean guy that came to America with $38 in his pocket

and had a $10 million sweatshop business making denim jeans and kind of learned the whole

cut and sew garment business and real, you know, and, and got to expose to every aspect of it.

You know, I think because of the, because I didn't ever really participate in the conventional

aspect, you know, the tour of surfing, I was always kind of, you know, kind of rogue in the

sense that I focused on big wave riding. I wanted to be a big, you know, I wanted to kind of, I

thought that that for me was the, that was the thing I was intrigued by. That was the thing I

was best suited for. There wasn't a lot of ways to, there wasn't a platform, let's say for me,

as an athlete. It wasn't like, you know, NBA or NFL where you got this huge platform, you go play.

And your wife was, was volleyball. So you guys were both like, you're both like giants and small

fields, which I always, I'm like, dude, that's crazy. They turned, not even just surfing, but

big wave surfing, which is still cool, but it's tiny and volleyball. And I'm like, I know both

of them. I knew, I knew you both individually. Yeah. Well, we had one, and I think that forced

us to be more creative and, you know, and do what we had to do. I always say, subsidize it, you know,

like, normally, you know, you subsidize your surfing with maybe some excavation work or something,

you know, you do some other, you do another job, surfers go work at restaurants, they,

I mean, they do whatever they can so they could be in the ocean.

Like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lane Bricks.

Exactly. Exactly. So you just do whatever you do to subsidize your, your love. But,

and if you can try to take both of them, you know, if you can turn your work in,

you know, your, or your passion into your work, that's a beautiful thing. But we've had to be

creative. I think both Gabby and I have always had to be creative in our career, just because

we were in such niche sports that it forced us to be a little bit more entrepreneurial in general.

We just, with our, you know, it's whether we were, you know, a she modeled, I modeled early on.

I mean, I did some film work. I mean, I do, we do what we had to, you know, we do what we have to do.

And then that kind of, you know, we've had sponsors and I think in the evolution of an

athlete, you have a tendency to, depending on your brand and, and, and your, you know, and what

you've, you know, what you've done, I think you evolve into wanting to kind of be your own sponsor

at the end, right? And, and, and we've been real selective. And I mean, it's been, I think that

that's been a, it's contributed to our longevity, but it's also been something that's encumbered us

a little bit, because we just won't do, you know, we won't just endorse and promote any,

anything for money. It's just we've been pretty cautious about things that reflect our authenticity,

things that are real to us. And so, you know, and I think that's what led us to a lot of these,

you know, the situation. I mean, with Laird Superfood, especially, like, I just wouldn't do other,

you know, energy drinks and other stuff that just isn't good for you.

You got to promote good shit.

No, exactly. And, and, and, and I, and you know, and so I, and I'm because of my surfing and,

and some of the feats that I've done and the innovations I've done, I have some people that

look up to me. And so I look at that as a responsibility to conduct myself in a certain way.

I want to do that anyway for my own thing. So it's a little selfish in one sense. But, but, you

know, but like, like, again, Laird Superfood or XPT or, you know, leaving Laird Apparel, these are

things that, you know, reflect who I am. And, and, and, you know, it's like, not every single,

not every single, you know, everything in Laird Superfood is something that, that I love. I don't

make, you know, I don't want every flavor because I have to make flavors. Yeah, I saw like an interview

where someone was like, so what flavors do you like? You're like, I drink this one. And they're

like, well, I like this one. You go, I hate that one. Or something like that. I don't drink that

one. I like this one. Yeah, but you have to make stuff for people. You know, you have to make

stuff for everybody, right? Right. I mean, for me, I feel like the more successful the company

can be the, the more impact I can have. And are those the three like major revenue streams,

which is the Superfoods, it's XPT, XPT and clothing. Is that like your three main things?

Yeah, I mean, I'm always doing other, other stuff too. I mean, I do, I do, I do speaking stuff.

You know, we have other sponsors that we work with. And so, you know, those like media,

just like, that would be like a media category. So yeah, there's media, there's media. I have a farm.

I have a farming project right now that I'm working on as well. And then, and then,

and then there'll be some, you know, we, I work with Gabbook, Gavin, I work with Land Rover.

I work with Bremont watches. And so I have some, there's media, and then there's like some other

sponsorship endorsement stuff that continues on, which, you know, I think, I think part of the

reason why that stuff continues on at this point in my career is just because, first of all, our

authenticity and I'm continuing also to pursue athletic achievements as well. So I'm still

doing that, that stuff. And so that, that kind of, so there's, you know, again, there's a lot of,

a lot of spokes in the wheel. I remember I saw this interview where you were talking about

like taking the company public and you're like, we got to go there and ring the bell.

And it was just so much work and all this paperwork and I'm shocked that anyone can do this.

And at first, you guys were flying high, things were going well. As of late, the stock has been

crushed. Do you, like, what, what are those emotions going through, like,

right now, when it's gotten crushed? And do you regret taking it public? Because it seems

like a good business. I mean, you're doing good revenues. I think this year, the growth,

it didn't work out this year. I just read one of your guys' most recent reports. I think you

changed CEOs. What are the emotions now where things are changing? I mean, right now, it's a

tough world for, we're not alone. I mean, so that's kind of nice. It'd be like, if it was,

everything was booming and then you were having trouble, you might be a little bit like, well,

what are we doing wrong? So there's some of that. I mean, I wouldn't change a bit of it. I mean,

I could say, listen, coming from my background and my relationship with, like, being patient

and, you know, crashing and wrecks and all my, like, all the stuff that I've gone through,

hard to, I'm gonna be hard to phase, you know what I mean? Like, I'm, my family's healthy. I'm

healthy. We're, we're good. You know, it's like, I tell Gabby, I go, you know, we were good. We're

good. Now we're gonna be good. Like, it's all. Are you guys having like conversations when you're

like, did you have a significant amount of your net worth tied up into the company?

Uh, I mean, well, it's, I mean, listen, this, the stock value alone, it was, was substantial. So

it's, but again, that's counting chickens before they hatch. And so, and I'm not, that's not my

world. I'm not, that's not, I'm not that guy. Like, I'm not that, that, because I realize that life

is so temporary that if you think you can somehow, and that, and that you really don't have the kind

of control you think you have, everybody. I mean, so my, my, my, the university I went through, the

university of, you know, a big wave riding or the university of the ocean or the university of the

hard knocks, you just have a different perspective. So I've been, you know, of course, would I love

the stock to be going through the ceiling? Absolutely. But I wouldn't change going public. I wouldn't

go back and redo it because the fact is, is that that experience, right? At the end of the day,

that experience of going through that process, doing the roadshow, doing 90 zoom, one hour zooms,

over a three week period, all day long, every day, and there's all this stuff that we did.

And just that knowledge, you just can't, unless you've been through that,

you know, people can't tell, can't talk to you. Like they, they can say, Oh yeah, what's, you know,

or I know what it's like. Well, no, you don't know what it's like unless you've been through that process.

And, and, and so you can't really appreciate it. And so for me, I feel like that was an incredible

school of an experience that, you know, if there's anything you can take with us,

there's a great friend of ours who's a woman judge in the, from the South. And she always says to us,

invest in experiences. Because if there's anything that you might be able to take

from you when you do depart this earth, when you die, you know, it may be that, I mean,

you're not going to take in anything else. So none of this other stuff's coming with you,

not the value and the money and the car house and all the stuff that none of that stuff's coming

with you. The only thing that's going to come with you is the possibly could be these experiences

that you've gone through. And so for me, I feel like what an incredible thing. And we're, we're

the seat, the new CEO we have in there is incredible. This is only it's a little bit like

because, and I've, and I've done some pretty brutal endurance things in my career.

And, and, and I, and I, I know when, when you're digging deep and, and, you know, that's where

all the, that's where all the, the building comes from, right? That's where all the character

building and the polishing of the stone happens in when it's, when you're, you know, down. And so

for me, I'm just like been here before, probably be here again, no problem. I mean, here we, here

we go. So it's for me, I feel like this is, this is a little bit more like the rough, like the,

I would say the refining, you know, like you're getting refined right now. And, and so it's only

going to help us make everything tighter and make our, you know, what we need to do better.

Because if you're not getting bumped a little, if you're not getting pushed, then there's no

really, you know, I go, I give you an analogy of like a professional team, you know, you have

this beautiful team that you built and you go and you have an incredible season, but then you lose

in the finals. And then, and then the next season, they break the team up. And they're like,

well, you could have easily won, but you just, you just, you broke it up because you, and,

and the winning and losing, it's, it's, it's, I mean, the difference is nothing. The difference is

Yeah, it could be a couple inches. Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, my biggest thing is

just I, I need this business to be successful because the stuff's awesome. I need it. I need it.

I need it for my friends. I need it for everybody who loves it. I like, so that's the biggest,

you know, that's our biggest, our biggest, you know, for me, that's the most important thing is

that, that we continue to, to supply the people that we do and we continue to get new people in

there. And, and, you know, I think right now, everybody's getting squeezed, you know, I think

there's a big squeeze on the whole, you know, on the whole system. So, you know, that's, I mean,

this is, this is when the, this is when the tough guys get going. This is when the, you know,

and our, and, and, and our new CEOs and, and, you know, a hundred miler, he's a Merrick,

like he's a long distance runner. So he knows how to, he knows how to grind. So

good. Well, you, um, I read the story about how you used to make this stuff,

and you're using turmeric and everything. You're just making this, making what is now

a layer of superfood at home. How much capital did you invest to get it store ready and about

how long did that take? It was pretty, pretty, it didn't take, I mean, we, you know, the unusual

thing about the business was, is that, I mean, it could have been a couple 20, 30 grand or something

like that at the most. And that, but we went online first. That's why it was really not,

didn't cost us much to start. We made, uh, you know, a powdered version of my original recipe.

And then, and then about the third or fourth rendition through that, uh, we, we're just in there

looking like you're mixing like Coke. You just got like, you probably just had some scales at home

and a little zip like bag. And then, yeah, exactly. Well, and then, and then all of a sudden this is

it. And then, and then, and then, uh, and, and my friend that I was working with Paul Hodge was

like a startup, a really, and I had been working with him on the golf board on another project.

And, uh, and so, you know, we, we, and we had, what we did, we just started online,

which was fortunate. Like do you remember your first years of sales? What's that?

Do you remember your first years, uh, sales? Oh, I don't, I don't probably,

I mean, I think it happened fairly quick, but you know,

50, 100 grand or something like that. I don't know, something pretty quick, but it's,

but it happened real quick. It was like, you know, right away, it was like, okay, five, 10,

15, you know, it was like, we just marched into, you know, probably 100, 100, 100, 150,

something like that within, or even, even, even a little bit more after probably a year. I mean,

if you counted like making samples, you know, playing with it, getting everything, you know,

getting some packages of it, going online, getting the people, that whole process,

if you get to count that within the year, yeah, something like that. Nothing, nothing quick,

but I mean, the traction happened quickly because good stuff people put and, and I,

and I was able to tap into kind of a smaller group of, you know, friends, I would say friends and

following that, that was available to us and that, that helped us. I think it would have been a

little different if we were just starting from scratch with no, with no kind of nobody there to

do stuff with. And we got a lot of, and we got a lot of response to, we were, we had a real inner,

I would say a good group that was interactive, like they, we tried this one, oh, we don't like

that one, you know, that was engaged with us, that helped us. And that was a big piece of it,

that we had customers that were kind of more engaged with helping us kind of refine things.

I think that was, that was, that was also very useful in the beginning.

Well, you timed it perfectly. So like right now we're in the thick of like a health trend,

like, you know, partially because like, you go to my Instagram feed, it's like you and like all

ripped dudes, like, you know, they're like in ice baths now, which I do. And, you know, it's

knees over toes, like, it's like, we're in like, it's become cool now to be healthy. And like,

but you were talking about, and I read how you were like, dude, we've been using G for 20 years,

G is popular now, you've been doing a lot of stuff that is like considered eccentric 20 years ago,

which is now not quite normal, but it's more normal. You also said that you're like,

I'm obsessed with ideas and like figuring out what can be, what's going to work, what's not

going to work. Were there any other ideas other than some of the, than what is now superfood?

Was there any other ideas that you were tinkering with where you're like, man, I think this, this

thing that I'm doing on a day to day basis or this food I'm consuming or this trend that I'm,

or this thing that I'm doing now will become more popular and I should maybe pursue that.

Well, I mean, listen, stand up paddling. I mean, I don't know if anybody knows what stand up

paddling is, but I start, I mean, I did that for eight years alone. Like that, that thing,

and that thing was the fastest growing sport in the world for a while. Like it's, it's everywhere

in the, in the whole planet. I mean, as far as a sport itself, as a discipline, I mean, foiling,

foiling is another thing that I was doing. Like we're the first guys to really stand and, and

then we're the first guys to ride that you realize that you could ride, ride waves with foils. And

now it's, you got foil magazines and there's 10 different disciplines. And for those people that

don't know what a foil is, it's an airplane that rides underwater that, that is attached to a board

above. So you're, and I know people have seen them, you know, at this point, you've seen some,

either an electric version or some, I mean, that's what the electric one. Yeah. America's cups and

all the boats have gone that, that direction as well. I mean, most of my stuff has come in sport.

I have a, you know, I mean, you always have some funny ideas that, that, you know, that there's a,

there's going to be three customers or maybe four, you know, I mean, Xpt is another a big,

you know, a big, I mean, there's some stuff in Xpt. I have this pool training system that,

that I've been working on for a while that has, has, still hasn't really gained traction for,

just be, I mean, it's gaining traction. But again, it's.

But the breathing part of it, I think you have like a breathing part on the app.

And like, I know a lot of people who do that, that, I mean, it is, what's the app?

The app, how much does that cost? Or is it all free?

No, you, there's different pieces of the app. There's different stages of it. You can go to

xptlife.com. And then if you want the breathing app, you know, there's different, there's different,

and I don't know exactly what they're charging for the app, that the app right now, because we've

just came out with a specific breathing one, but there's, there's a bunch of different,

you know, there's different levels of, of your participation. And we do, we do a camp too. We

do like a, a two and a half day seminar. But you know, you know what I have, I say about innovation

and ideas is, you know, it's just a new application of an old idea. I mean, you think for, for anyone

to have what they would think would be an original thought at this point in humanity is insanity.

How, how could you have an original thought given the fact that there has been billions of minds

over, you know, hundreds of thousands of years that same, and also even in civilizations that we

don't really even know anything about. So the thing that you'd have a new, you know, kind of

some unique thought, I think it's more about these hybrids, these combining existing things,

maybe some new materials kind of, or some new stuff changes the way. I mean, listen, my, my whole

thing around like, for example, with Laird, with superfood is really based on using plants in our,

on the whole form and not separating and taking, you know, elements out and concentrating it or

trying to figure, I mean, a lot of that's based on really trying to figure out how to get a patent

and control and own. Yeah, I feel like, listen, nature made it perfect for your body.

Why don't you use it in those ratios? And it seems like whenever we don't do that, as close to

nature as we can, there's always a problem. There's always a problem whenever you're,

whenever you're giving the system something that it can't really relate to. And I think that that's,

you know, I mean, at least in, in, in, in the superfood side of things, that's a big,

that's kind of a philosophy that we use to help govern that, that, that brand. I mean,

part of the reason why I think there's such a crazy health thing, it was going that way anyway,

but I think people started to realize after the, you know, I mean, since the pandemic happened and

that the, that being healthy is really an advantage, you know, and I think because we have so much,

like, like we're in somewhat of a health crisis, just given, you know, diabetes and obesity and

just all this stuff that's, that's been happening. I think that the importance, again, back to what

I said earlier about putting value on things, you know, you put a value on eating really good

food, you're going to have really good food. If you just are like, Hey, just get that in,

you know, I don't care what it is, you know, let's just, you know, go through a drive through and

pick it up and just eat it because we were hungry and we want to get full versus no, I want something

that really tastes amazing and has, you know, and is, and is nutrient dense and all that stuff. So

again, I think we give the value to the stuff and that will bring, you know, that'll bring the

level and the quality of it. But if you don't make it important, then, and I just, I mean, yeah, I

just think that, that the, and then I have a philosophy about stuff that you do every day

anyway, like things that you do every day are accumulative, right? There's an accumulation.

I mean, there was a technique they used to use to kill the kings in the old days,

is you just give them a little arsenic, right? And then eventually, you know, in a year or two,

they'll send the king croaks and dies, but it was never enough to just be poy. It wasn't poison,

but it was just an accumulation. And I think, you know, I think that that's true with fitness. I

think it's true with, with, you know, with your diet. If you're just, you know, if you're, if you're

eating a little bit of bad food every day, that's an accumulative thing. If you're eating a little

good food every day, you know, and then that's an accumulative thing. And I think that's your,

I think that there's an opportunity to, to really have an impact on your, on your health. If you're

just, you know, hey, I'm doing, I'm doing some training every day. I'm, you know, I'm getting

a good night's sleep every day. I'm getting, I'm getting, eating good food every day. It's like,

this stuff over time is going to pay dividends. And it's, and it, you know, it's, it's a, I mean,

I just think that, that really speaks back to the philosophy about being patient and being,

you know, you're going to, I told you the story when I worked in downtown LA with the,

you know, that with that Korean guy, Mr. Chun. What brand, what brand were they making stuff for?

He was making oxygen. He was building gas and green line. So he's building all the

gas jackets that were made out of like old Levi jeans. They were, they take jeans and

they sew them all together and then they stone wash it. Was it like a, just like a big factory

with Koreans and he's just paying them nothing? I mean, well, more, yeah, but exactly. Yeah. But

I mean, pay probably paying them and paying them enough that they were able to support their families

and, and, uh, but he was had, like I said, big, you know, uh, tumbling, uh, washers and dryers

with pumice stone, but I'd sit in the end and try to pick stuff out. I'm like, I want to pick some

wisdom out of this guy. So when I'm sitting there one day and he'd always drink Miller,

Millers, he would drink Millers, which is the worst beer ever, but that's another story.

That's what I used to drink. Miller light, Miller light. That was my drink. You had high alcohol

content and low carbs. Exactly. Yeah. Cause that's so great. But he, he, he said, you know, he goes,

Oh yeah, when good times here, don't be too happy because after good time, bad time comes. But when

bad times here, don't be too sad because after, after bad time, good time come again. And I'm

like, there's some wisdom there. I mean, that, that means technically you'd be numb if you didn't

react to things, but there is wisdom in the, Hey, you know, when bad times here, don't be too sad

because after bad time, good time come. And when you're in the good time, don't be too happy.

So in a way, I think there's something to be said about that.

Can I ask you about your house? I, I've, I've studied or I've, I've seen your house in the setup

and I've talked to a ton of friends who are like, Oh yeah, we went to Laird's, which is,

you're, you're like, you're, you're like the Bono, you know, you're a one man, you're a one name

guy now, which is cool. But they're like, Oh, we went to Laird's and we did the pool thing. And

it was amazing. And like, one of the things that you've done is like, you're living like every,

like many men's fantasy, which is to have this amazing house that's like community and, uh,

you have people coming and going and it's all in your terms. And I think it's pretty cool.

What year did you buy that house and how much should it cost? What do you,

do you, like, you know when that was? I mean, it was, well, I don't know. I don't remember

exact figure, but it was cheap for Malibu. Crazy. But we've been here for 25 years, 20,

26 years. So, you know, what's the values of, of, you know, I mean, things for a million dollars,

25 years ago, or 25 million now. Well, is that a big deal for you at the time?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, when Gabby, when I, when we looked at that house,

because it was, the guy had built it for his, the guy who built the house built it for himself. And,

and he was a Greek engineer, the one here in Malibu, uh, because I also, you know, I'm from

Hawaii and so we have a home there that we just, we just finished during the pandemic. But he was

built it for his house, his, his family. And then he, and then during the process, I think him and

his wife kind of had got divorced, which happens a lot to people because building houses is very

stressful. Like it's a very stressful thing. But I said to Gabby, I go, I showed her the house that

she looked at the price. I go, don't look at the price. Look at the house. Just think if you want

the house. Like before you look at the price to let it affect you, whether you want the house or

not. Look at the house because, you know, sometimes I think we get in the way of, oh, well, that's

how much it is. I can't get that and dictate instead of, well, no. So let's see if you want it or not.

Like, why would it even matter what the price was if you didn't want it anyway? So first,

let's see if you want it. So we went, we came and looked at the house and she was like, oh,

it's amazing. And I stood across at this house. I stood across the street. I didn't even come

into the house and I just looked and I could see the ocean. I could see this wave that I love to

serve. And so I just stood and I was like, I love this house. And she's like, well, you haven't been

in the house yet. And I go, I don't even need to go in the house. I'm good. If you're good,

because I could be on a, you know, I could have been on a, you know, in a tent right there looking

at the, at it. So that, you know, the, what do they say about real estate

and rest and probably restaurants, but real estate is, and houses, location, location, location,

location, location. It's all, everything's about location. If you're, if you're, if people are

trying to buy things and for value or keep value or have an increased value, it's all about location.

I mean, you can always change the house. You can rebuild the house, but you can't change where it

is. And so I think, you know, that's one thing about when you grew up in Hawaii and you live

in an environment where people work all year to save up to come on vacation for one week.

And then you live in that environment, you kind of, I mean, if you don't, if you have your head

screwed on correctly, you realize what, how fortunate that is, you know, that, that that's a

fortunate thing to be that, and those, and that those are to be cherished, those places that,

yet that people seek out to just, you know, be able to go there for a week and you live there,

that's a pretty, that's a pretty fortunate thing, but also that you, you'd need to realize that

that's, that that means it's a special place, you know. I always see videos of these athletes coming

and going, how many days a week are you actually having people come and do those workouts in the

pool? Well, Gabby does her, she has training in the morning. It depends on the time of the year,

you know, normally, most of this is in the summertime because you have football, basketball,

a lot of times it's off season. Guys come, you know, I have a, just I'm connected with a lot

of different athletes and a lot of different coaches and a lot of different physios. And so

people, you know, guys get hurt and then they're coming out of an injury and then they'll send

them to come see, to see, you know, to see us. Are you charging them? Or is this just like,

you're just doing it for fun? No, it's, no, because it's, if you, if, if you charge people,

then it's the dynamic changes, you know, and we really, we like to, I like to have that sign that

says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, like kind of thing. Like I think that

that's a better, that's a better relationship. I mean, we don't have to, we don't, we don't need

to. So it allows us, we have the luxury to be able to not have the charge because we're able to,

you know, we're, there's other ways to earn a living. And so, but that does set up a really

nice environment. I have, like I have a young, a young man that's been living with us and,

and training, training and learning about training. He's becoming, you know, very

versatile and just advanced and because he has such exposure. And so, like, he'll,

I'll, we'll get guys to come in and guys that want to get, get work, you know, worked with.

I'll have him, and we have other, other trainers with XBT and we have other people that we know

that, hey, if you, if somebody needs a trainer and they, and they want to run through a lot of this,

the stuff that we do, we'll, we'll, you know, what do we say? We have people for that. But

yeah, we have people for that, that do that. And then the rest of it, you know, normally we kind

of have a communal training, you know, like on, on, on certain days of the week, we have some kind

of regulars that kind of come and train on those days. You know, we do like, it'll be maybe lifting

and, and stuff and dry land stuff on, on, you know, like Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, and then Tuesday,

Thursday, Saturdays is, is can be the pool stuff, depending on, on, on who it is and what we, what

we do. And it's, it's not a lot. I mean, there's, at times, there could be a fair amount of people.

You know, the, the, the stuff that we do does weed out some of the people just because it's,

you know, we're, we're, we're here to work and, and it's, and it's a, and we have a, you know, a

big, probably the most important piece of it is this community, right? That we have a little,

that we have a really nice community that, that that's what you realize that we all are looking

for, right? We're all looking for a little tribe to belong to. I mean, that's, I would, I would

blame, I wouldn't say blame, but I'd say that that was part of the success of

something like CrossFit, that it was really had less to do with the work, work out itself

as it did that you were part of a tribe and you had a community and people that were like-minded

that were training with you and so on. So I think that's a big piece of it. I think that, that,

you know, that we need that yet. I mean, listen, some days you're just down and you're like,

hey, you know, and I don't feel like doing anything today. And then somebody's out there,

okay, ready to go. And then you're like, okay, let's go. And then you just, so, you know, and

vice versa, they might not be in you are. And so I think that we, we kind of lift each other up.

I think that that's part of, I mean, we humans are communal creatures. And I think we operate well

that way as long as we have like-minded people. I was looking at like some old photos of folks

in your pool. I think there was like a whole bunch of, and yeah, you had a whole bunch of

basketball players, like Joakim Noah, Grant Hill, a few other people who, who have you worked out

with back there that has put you in awe of, of their fitness or their athletic ability.

I mean, listen, I get so many crazy guys. I think I, I mean, my problem is I probably have a skewed

bar, like my, you know, I don't, because I'm with, normally I'm always with all these freaks,

right? So it's a little bit like hard to out freak the freak, you know, like you, when you got,

you know, I got, when you guys got, you got, you know, guys like Christian McCaffrey or, or,

or, you know, or Jalen or, I mean, just, you just have the level of athlete that you have is,

I mean, I think there's some, there's always, you know, the, the, the people that surprise you

are probably people you haven't heard of that, that come there that, that have a certain mindset,

because some of the pool stuff that we do can be, it's stressful, you know, and so sometimes,

you know, you'd, you'd, you'd think you'd get this big super strong guy and he freaks out and

then you get some kind of more frail, you know, lady that just has a, you know, mental giant and

can just handle, you know, being in the ice and drowning in the deep end and, you know, so it

doesn't, I think it's pretty, uh, that's why it's kind of neutralizing. There's a neutralizing

aspect to the environment because it's, first of all, you're always going to have somebody that,

you know, you're always going to, you're always going to, you're always going to have somebody

that can out, you do you in something, right? You cannot do them, they cannot do you. And so

our approach is more about you finding your own barriers and then trying to lift those up, right?

You try to, you try to, and, and don't use other people as a reference to you. I think that's where

we run in trouble. You know, we get in trouble as you start comparing, you get over there and you're

like, okay, that guy's doing this and which, what do they say? Comparison is a death to happiness.

I'm not sure, but something like that. I've always hated that phrase when they say

comparisons of thief of joy because I'm like, yeah, that's true. I shouldn't compare myself,

but I love to compete. And so like, well, that's different though, but that's different.

That's different comparing and competing. Yeah. Like I like seeing guys and I'm, or in business

and I'm like, this person's doing this revenue, they're at 50 million. I'm like,

oh, if that dumb ass could do that, I definitely could do 70. Let's crush them.

Or like, I've got a joke. I'm like, people are like, oh, you got to let go of that grudge. And

I'm like, this grudge fuels everything I do. I've like, I like, the reason I like work out hard is

to like prove my ex-girlfriend from high school that like, you were worthy. Yeah. Yeah. Like

everything I do is because everything I do is because of a grudge. I'm like,

rage is the greatest fuel on earth. And so when people say like comparisons of

thief of joy, I'm like, oh, I get so much joy proven like these idiots wrong and like,

letting a 20 year comet sit on my back for those years of how I wasn't like, you know,

fit enough or successful enough. Like I love that stuff. You know what I mean?

Yeah, but you will, but you know what's interesting because that's, I will say,

because I can relate to that. I mean, listen, a lot of what I've done is because of that.

Like so, but then at a certain point, then you get to this thing and then you're like, okay,

then what, then at some point you achieve the thing you're trying to do, you prove your point,

and then you're sitting there going, okay, now what? And then you're like, okay, do I have to

make up a new one? Or maybe I can create motivation out of, out of success or contentment or something

versus. So I think there is too. I think that can be, I know for myself personally, I've gone through,

you know, being driven and motivated to achieve certain things because of, you know,

frustration and proving the work to the world and, and, you know, and all those things that I went

through that drove me, but then, but then you achieve it. And then you're like, okay, now,

what, you know, what am I going to do now? Like now how am I going to adjust to be able to continue?

And so at least in my, I can say, you know, and listen, if you're a competitor, you're a

competitor, that's just a vicious, like for me, I think I'm, I am such a vicious competitor that,

that I would, I almost, I can barely actually even compete because I just, because of, because

in a real, if you look at real, if you look at competition in nature and the brutality of it,

like the real, like the real thing, not just these contrived things of like the real, like for real.

Yeah. Then you're like, okay, well, maybe I better figure out how to constructively vent that stuff.

Do, does that, does that, does that carry over to, to business too? I mean, are you talking,

I think Mike, I think, I think his name is Mike, your new CEO. Are you like, you know, we need,

I want this much profit. We need this much growth. Does that carry over to business as well?

Yeah. I mean, not, not that, not that way. Not, I mean, it, it, it, you know, I mean,

it, maybe it should, but it, not that, I think it's, mine is a more, you know, mine is a patient

thing. Like I have a, like, I, you know, my favorite term is the victory through attrition.

Yeah. It has to be a cockroach.

That's like, like, like the last guy standing, like I'm all about that. Like you can be like,

yeah, yeah, yeah, you can have your little wins, your little wins, and your little wins and all

great. But I'm talking about like at the end, when you're the only one left on the battlefield

and everybody's laying on the ground, then you don't even have to be any good. You don't even

have to be good. You're just undisputed. You're the guy. Cause so, and I think, I think for me,

I feel like, and I'm looking at the greatest competition is life, right? The greatest competition

is life. Like you want to talk about the real game, the game, the real game, like, because all

these other things, they're games, they're right, but the real game, the big game is life. The big

game is, you know, is like the quality of like at like relationship, father, you know, how like

your life, like that's the big game. That's the real game. That's why I said, when I talk about

the spoke, I go, yeah, business, that's one spoke, make sure it's nice and tight, good, cool. But

if you're all there, then you got these giant holes in the other spot. I'm like, sorry, lost

the game already. But you've not always been that way. Have you? I think I read some old stuff

where like, I think your wife filed for divorce and you went at one point and you guys like,

you've thankfully made it work. I think at 01. Yeah. I think you, I don't, I don't remember if I

read that you had a drinking problem, but I think you said that you wish you had told your younger

self to quit drinking earlier. So I don't know if that was like a problem or not. Like I know that

you, and if I just were just to stereotype you, I'm like, I bet you were like a wild guy. Anyone,

if I'm stereotyping a surfer who like goes out hard and does everything hard, I'm like, I'm sure,

I bet you picked some of your vices with that same, or you use that same energy sometimes for

devices. When did, were you kind of like, you weren't always this wise, I'm sure. And what made

that switch? Well, no, I mean, well, okay, let's, let's be, let's be clear that for sure work,

right? Sure, work in process, work in process now, work in process. Then I mean, I, I always,

you know, love sleep. I always like, even within my, I mean, the thing about like,

my thing about drinking, like I loved, I loved wine, I drank, I, that was when I always said I had,

I had two French habits, because I worked with a French company for 20 years. And I,

my two French habits were espresso and Pinot Noir. And then it was like, and, and, and like

everything I do, I have a tendency to do it, you know, in excess, like if one's good, then two's

better. So that's the mentality. And so in a way, but as far as like, as far as kind of my, I mean,

listen, I first of all, I would have never, first, I never, Gabby and I would never have gotten to

be together. If I didn't have a certain, if I didn't have a certain, I'd say calculation,

morality, values, I mean, there's certain things that were, that I've had my whole life, right?

That it since I was, since I was young, it wasn't like I got them. I had the, I had the basis of it.

And then that's been just the process of refinement. Again, all loose spoke, like, Hey, you know what,

this, this, this drinking thing's an issue, because I don't have real power over it. I want to prove

to myself, I do, I come from a, you know, I, I always say I come from a long line of alcoholics,

but we all do. I think it's a human, you know, I always say out being an alcoholic, it's like

being a surfer. There's no one that doesn't love surfing. Well, there's no human being that doesn't

actually like alcohol. It's just whether you drink or not. No, I love it too. I'm, I'm 10 years sober

too. I, I loved it. So I got 15 years, I got 15, but my thing was like a, you know, my mom said to

me once when I was a kid, she said, if you can't be true to yourself, you can't be true to anyone

else. And so I thought, hmm, let me see. If I say, Hey, I can stop drinking anytime. And then

the next day I drank or the next week or the, or the next month, then I really don't have a lot of

power over it. Right. So then I want to have, so now I want to be like, I want to have some power

over it. And so that was a discipline thing too. And you know what, what do I saw also said,

all the dumbest things I ever did were when I was drinking that all the stupidest things I ever,

I've ever done, usually some alcohol was somehow involved in there because, because

like it says in the bottle, impairs your motor skills. So, so let's not forget. So, and so in,

in, in a way, those things like the, in my relationship, the Rocky times in relationship,

those refined, you know, and, and, and motivate you to make changes, you know, all those things,

okay, drink in the thing, you know, like just all these different, these things that, and there's

things I'm still working on and probably will always be, but that's a continuation of, of trying to,

to get better, like get, get, get better and not, and, and, and which means that you're saying,

Hey, there's things that you think you could do better, or you could be better, or you could make

changes, or you could, you know, whatever, whatever those are, I mean, they're, you know,

what do they say about sin? You know, let he without sin cast the first stone, no one seems

to be able to throw one because everybody falls short. So, I mean, it's about being honest too,

like being honest with yourself and being like, okay, what is it? What do I, what is it? Which,

which thing? And then you know what, you just start eliminating, you start, okay, let's work on that

one, let's work on this one. And then, and then as you go. And so that's, I mean, I'm in that,

I'm in that, in that process. And, and, and, and you get success, you get, you get, you get

success. I mean, I use, I used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about

training. So I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I can drink Pinot Noir, cup, you know, bottle to bottle,

three bottles, no problem, eat dinner, go to sleep, wake up, 5am, train like an animal. What's

the problem? No problem? Where's the problem? I don't see a problem. You could train hungover?

Oh, yeah, like an animal. Oh, fuck that. You've puked in the ocean. Using that, using that guilt,

using that guilt and prove like a proof, like all proof. Let me show you what a man I am. You

know, I'll show you what I can do. And so I hope your pool had a good filter, man.

Like I said, my drinking problem had to do with wine only, never hard, you know,

I mean, okay, not never hard booze, but I was pretty smart about that. But,

but even within that, I had, you know, there was some sort of control, but I'm just speaking in

general as a thing to refine, right? As you go, let's just try to, let's try to continue to,

to, to polish the stone. You're kind of going like one path down this longevity thing and

healthy living thing that I love, but I love freak shows. I love like people who are just odd

balls and a guy we had on here one time, his name is Brian Johnson. Have you seen Brian Johnson

from blueprint? I mean, he's like, total freak show when it comes to longevity. And I love that

people are brave enough to do what he's doing because like, you can always learn cool. Well,

you need to be doing extremes. Is any blending his food every day? I think Gabby did a podcast on

him. Is that the guy he did? He's doing all tight. Yeah, that's basically, he's like, yeah, he's

like, I'll like give you, I'll give you like the, the clip notes, but basically he's probably

close to a billionaire. So he started a company that he sold. So he's got plenty of income and

money to like be playing around. But basically he's like, I'm going to become the most tested

person on planet earth. And I'm going to try to, he goes, I'm going to try to decrease my biological

age faster than my chronological age, which obviously is going to be impossible at one point.

But he was like, let's just see if I can get, make my body younger, even though my age gets older.

And so he like does crazy amounts of tests where he's doing tests weekly and he's spending millions

of dollars doing it. And he blogs and documents it all on his website blueprint. But some of the

crazy stuff that he's doing is he's like, well, through my tests are showing that like this vegan

diet or vegan lifestyle is working well for me. Therefore I am only going to eat these same three

things every day. And he like measures the calories down to like the, he's like, you know,

it's got to be this amount of calories, the servings, the workout has to be this. And I'm like,

I love that weirdos like that exists because we're going to be able to learn some cool stuff from

him. Have you been paying attention to that? And what do you think about those people that are a

little bit less? I mean, he, I don't know if he's like, I think at one point you said science

follows intuition with him. It's like, let's go science and let's see how that makes me feel.

But have you been paying attention to that? And what's your, what's your take?

Well, Gaby did a show on, on Brian and a podcast went and interviewed him. And so here

and I have a conversation when she kind of filled me in about some of the stuff that he was doing.

Did she go to his house?

She did. Yeah, she didn't. She ate some of his, she ate some of his goulash. She ate some of his

nutty pudding. Yeah, his blended, blended it. And I mean, listen, you know, when you chew food,

when you chew food, you create saliva that you create enzymes in your mouth that go down with

the food to help digest the food. And one of the worst, if one of the ways that if you really want

to become like allergic or have a, an allergy against something is just eat that alone every

day all day. But, but that gets into, I'm into a whole, you know, I'm, I, I'm into, I guess for me,

I just feel like you can't hack your way around biology in my, in my, in my, the world of my

thought. And it is interesting. I think you can use hacking to support work. You know, I think,

I think, uh, first of all, I think in the diet, one of the most important things is diversity.

I think that's one of the most important. I mean, the problem is, is it's hard to,

to not get bombarded by a bunch of, you know, things that aren't good for you as well. But,

you know, through that, so it'll be, it'll be, it would be interesting to, to, I mean,

Gabby would be a better person to have the conversation about, but I am always interested

in watching. I think there's so much, uh, I don't know. He, I mean, I do appreciate that he's doing

like the guys going through it, going through it, but, but as far as, you know, what, what,

you know, we're, what we are and what we're doing and what we need, I'll be interested in, you know,

I'll be interested to see, uh, first of all, what, what it, what it, you know, what it does.

I, um, I think more as an entertainment.

That's what I'm saying. Like I love that. Like, uh, I don't know if you pay attention to fighting,

but you know who, uh, Nate, do you watch fighting like MMA?

I don't, I don't watch a lot of it. I know, I know I have a bunch of guys I know that do it,

but I, I, yeah. I mean, I, I like, I always say, I love a freak show. I like fighting, boxing. I

mean, I love just like some crazy event. What do you think about, uh, uh, wrestling?

WWE wrestling or, uh, WWE?

I mean, I love that stuff. Do you watch that?

What's that? Oh yeah. Well, I'm a friend of mine. My friend of mine brought me to it. I never even

watched it and I have a friend that really is into it. And so he, he, he brought me and I go with

him, but I only, I live vicariously through him because I'm amazed just how, how into it he is,

how much he knows about it. But it's just a girl man soap opera soap opera soap opera.

But it's fun. I love that.

I love it. It goes to our, you know, it goes to our deep.

It serves a purpose. Oh yeah, it does. It goes right to the, I want to say some,

yo guide is underwear. It's like fighting and arguing about shit. You know what I mean? Like,

let's just like, I just like, I like me. I like weirdos. I like freaks. Just like, let it be.

Well, and also people from outside really, they think, they actually think that the audience

thinks that everything what's going on is real. They don't realize that everybody in the audience

knows exactly what's going on and they're just participating in the whole show and then it's

all part of the whole thing. It's pretty. So yeah, the humans are, I mean, listen, humans are

entertaining and, and, you know, just watch them. When you're like, I have this like image

in my head of what you are and like you running your businesses. I'm like, is he like totally

out of the picture on a day to day basis and just talks to the CEO once a month.

And I was like, actually, what's that? What would that look like? Like when we got on here,

your wife helped set up the camera. Are you even using a computer or a phone on a daily

basis? Are you totally detached? Yeah, no, I use a phone. I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not a social media guy. I don't spend very, I mean, listen, the phone for me is

communication, weather, weather and news and new and new stuff that and when I say news, I mean,

more like investigation stuff like, but, but I mean, listen, I'm, what's investigation stuff?

Uh, just trying to understand what the truth is about whatever and everything. So they just,

they just, I'm, I go into, if I'm interested in something, if they, you know, if I'm interested

in some political thing, I like to look like understand exactly from my own, not just take

the advice of people that are telling you about it, but actually like understand the real stuff.

So I have a tendency to, but I'm just using, like I said, the thing for a tool. So I hardly,

I hardly use it. I talked to Jason all the time. I talked to, uh, you know,

Blair to peril, uh, the lady, you know, the lady that's, that's running that right now. Yeah,

I'm, I'm in communication with, with these because, because it's, first of all, it's got my name on it.

So it, you know, it's, it has to do with my brand and, and we're just, we're vested in,

in it and interested in it. So we're, I mean, all this, the, the, I mean, I'm also,

so yeah, I mean, we're, we're, we're, we're, we spend, you know, we're, we're multiple times a week,

if not every single day I'm communicating with those brands. Uh, and, and, you know, either

discussing, okay, promotional this or, or product development or, you know, whatever, whatever.

Yeah. We're, we're, so I, um, I, uh, I, I think I told you, I, I started this company and sold it

and, uh, when I was 30, so I was able to like, uh, financially get some, some, some really nice

security there. Yeah. And I look at the type of life that you live where, um, so I also,

I split time between Austin and New York, my wife's from New York. And so we, we spend there all

the time. And I have a handful of projects, uh, that I'm working on. I got a, a, a, a company with

the CEO, uh, that runs it. So a, a bit similar ish to, to what you're doing and God willing,

some of them will be huge. What I'm curious about, because there aren't that many people

in the situation where I want to go to, um, and where I'm in now, but you definitely are, uh,

which is how do you break up? How are you, how do you map out your personal finances? So because

you said that you have this one farm as a project, you have three or four, five different businesses

right now. You have two, or who knows what you have, how much real estate do you just like,

is there just like one revenue stream where you're like, that's just the, like, for example, the app

might have high margins. So you're like, Oh, we'll just live off that or media appearances. I bet you

I can just pay, I can make a million bucks a year and that will be what I live off of. And then all

the rest I'm going to reinvest or I'll put into the, a Vanguard, just normal index fund. How does

that, how do, how do you balance all your different things when it comes to a personal finance

space? Uh, uh, I mean, uh, well, I, first of all, I have smarter people at that than me. So I have,

I have, I have, I have the, you know, I have people that, that, you know, I have specific,

specifically a woman that I work, that we've worked with for a very long time that does like,

you know, management, that, that sort of stuff. I would say, uh,

account, accounting and, and finance management, just because that's, she's into it and, and, and

good at it. And that's what she's interested in. So we have it, we have that, you know, that's a big,

a big piece of it. I think that, uh, you know, I think one of the, I mean, for me personally,

I don't, I think that, that that can be a, a, such a consuming whole, like that, all of that

stuff that you can just get swallowed into that and, and lose every, you know, lose your connection

with everything as well. I think that you have to, I, you know, what part of it has to do with

how you look at it. Like what's your, what's your, you know, what's your faith, you know,

like what kind of faith do you have? What kind of belief do you have that everything's

going well or not going well? And do you think that you're going to control

everything and that, you know, how much control do you think you have and all those things? I think

that's a piece of my, I think of my, my philosophy. Um,

Which, so does that mean that you just don't stress out a significant amount about finances?

And like earlier you said, when I bought that house, you're, you were like, Oh,

that was a lot of money for us back then, but I was like, fuck it. We're doing it anyway. We'll

figure it out. Yeah. That's kind of like your, your, how you live when it comes to finances.

Yeah. Which is, which I think for a lot of people, they just can't operate like that.

And I think, I think, I think for me, I just feel that just feels more,

that just feels better. I, I, I just feel that feels more natural. I just feel like, you know,

because, because I've just, you know, I've just seen, I first of all, I've had the, I've had the

fortune to be exposed to a lot of wealthy people in my life, like a lot of crazy wealth and, and,

and seeing people that had no nothing and all of a sudden they got everything and I've seen people

with everything and they lose everything. And so I've gotten to watch a lot of it and I just feel

like, you know, there, there's a level of imprisonment that happens when you, when you,

you know, and, and I think, I mean, a lot, that's why when I say faith, I mean, you know, they talk

about, about, you know, you, you saving up, you know, in your warehouse with, you know,

where moth and rust can eat, you know, like, you know, like there's some stuff to do with that.

I think, which I think you can't, you can't always, it's not so simple to, to, to be that way.

And I think it's harder for, you know, I think it's, it's a hard, it's hard for people to, to

operate like that. But having that, you know, having that belief, it's like people talk about

visualization and visualizing and, you know, having that, I mean, it's real. That's real stuff.

Like if you think it's not real, you're, you're mistaken that you, you, you, you think you can,

you can make things, your belief in it definitely will be supportive of it happening. I can tell

you that for sure in both ways, right? Like in both ways, you can make things be, you know,

like Gabby says, if you have an ouch, God will give you a hurt, you know, if you walk around going,

ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, it'll be surprised if stuff isn't just hitting you all the time. And so,

and I think vice versa, it's the same way the other way, which is, you know, what is that? You

know, you have little faith, I provide for the birds, you don't think I'll provide for you.

Like, so there's some of that, that's real stuff, like they didn't just make that stuff up out of

the sky. That's a real, that's real thing. So I think there's something to be said about that.

It doesn't mean be stupid. And, you know, it doesn't mean just, you know, just ignore your,

your reality. But, but there is something about that that's real that, that I think can put you

in the right state of mind to not just be caged by this stuff, because this is a caging area.

That's an area that we can be caged by. No, I, and I'm, I'm one of them. I'm, I, I'm caged by,

it's like, when I was broke, and then I was not broke, and I'm like, oh, shit, I've just like

created a prison a little bit where you get, when you stress out over running out. Yeah.

Yeah. Because we're, because we're, because we're, yeah, we're scarcity creatures, right? So we're,

we have this whole scarcity thing that's in us, right? So, so, and, you know, my mom had another

good saying, which was be, the way God punishes you is he gives you what you ask for. So be careful

what you ask for, because you go, hey, I just want that, you know, I want that big house. And then

you're like, yeah. And then all of a sudden, with that house comes all this other stuff, like all the

stuff that comes with it, which means that there's a bunch of stuff to break, and there's a bunch of

thing, and there's a bunch of stuff to maintain. And there's a, you know, it's so it, and, you know,

and that could be overwhelming. I think, I think that, you know, that's why you see these guys

that are these big, these big hitters, they're kind of, they're not bogged down by all that

little stuff, right? They're not, they're looking in, they're looking in, in a, in a, at a bit, at a

bigger, a bigger thing. But that being said, you know, you know, like I said, there's, there's

something about being prudent and, and having the right people around you that can, that, that you,

because it takes it, it takes a, what do they say? It takes a village, but it, you know, you

got to have, you got to have people that, to help because there's not, you can't do everything. You

can, you know, and it's like, and so that you, you need to be, you're only as good as, you know,

as the company you keep. So I think that that's another important piece too, like people.

Well, no, I mean, and that's one of the reasons why I look up to, we've had, I don't know if you

know Rob Deirdic is, but he's pretty amazing where he's another guy where I'm like, layered and robbed,

they've nailed it, where business nailed it, personal life. You never have totally nailed that,

but you're like, or do really well, fitness nailed it, like self-awareness nailed it. I know you,

we'll wrap up here in a minute, but my last question was, I think last year on your guys'

YouTube, Gabby asked you, what are your goals for, it was at the end of 2022. She said, what are your

goals for 2023? You go, this year, I want to be more of a savage. I want to be more, I want to do

more savage stuff. Like I want to get like dirty and do something. What is an example? We're more

than halfway through the year. What's an example of something that you've done so far that's savage?

And you also talked about visualization over the next six months and 18 months. Are there any

particular experiences or goals that you're trying to do that would be, that would check that box of

being more of a savage?

Well, I mean, listen, I have the niche. For me here, I'll give you an example. For me, I've always

wanted to kill an animal. I wanted to go and kill a deer or sometimes I have cows in my ranch. I was

like, I want to slaughter it with my hands and I want to eat it. I was like, I don't do that enough

and I eat a ton of meat. I got to do that. Yeah. And that's an example for me, which is not that

that's not too savage. But what do you have?

I go for moose. I go for probably in September, I'll go get a moose and so I can

fill the freezers for the winter. But I grew up at a farm too. So I've already dealt with the,

you know, and I've hunted, when I was a kid, we hunted boar and stuff like that. I mean,

for me, the savage stuff comes more with the ocean. Like with the conditions,

I had one trip already to Peru this summer. I mean, most of my savage stuff comes from the

environment. So I need to, you know, and normally, you know, I mean, listen, we had that giant Malibu

fire. I fought my house for, you know, I fought that fire for four or five hours with a suit and

pump. And then I had a flood in Hawaii after and I was like, you know, at night with boats,

you know, rescuing people off the top of their roofs of their houses and stuff. And

so I have to be careful what I asked for. Because before both of those things, I said,

I just need some action, you know, I just so again, you know, back to what my mom said,

be careful what you asked for, be careful. Yes, you got to clarify. So you have to clarify what,

you know, what, what that, what that is, you know, I think it's because it's easy to make a blanket

statement. I just want to, you know, it's like I said, when I was young, I wanted to be surrounded

by women. You know, I just want to be surrounded by women. Like, and then now you are right. Yeah,

I have three daughters. So, you know, again, I should have been a little more

how clear in my definition. Do you read a lot of books? I listen to a lot of books,

but I read, I read some and I'll read and listen, but I, but I listen to a lot.

What are the best two that you've listened to in the last 12 or 18 months?

Oh, well, I did, I did, I liked, there was a book called Life After Life that I really,

I really enjoyed by, what's his name, Moody. And then, let me see the,

you know, there's a gnarly, a really pretty heavy one called,

Embrace the Fearless, Embrace Fearlessly the Burning World by Barry Lopez. He's pretty radical.

And then I went, I went full conspiracy. Oh, actually, the psychology of totalitarianism

was pretty, was a pretty heavy book. That's the one you were referring to when you said

you went full conspiracy? No, the full conspiracy was called The Trap. That one's called The Trap.

I go, I kind of go all over the place. I have a really good one on water right now.

You know, I'm, I like fiction. I like, you know, I like factual books. I'm not a big fiction

guy. I like, I like. Can I give you, let me give you, so I read a ton. I read about,

I only read history, basically, mostly historical stuff. Okay. I'm going to give you three,

three in particular. Okay. I thought that you would like. You know, Dan Carlin? Of course,

hardcore history. Yeah. Cause Dan, we know Dan, Dan's a buddy of ours.

Really? He's cool. Yeah. I'm going to give you three in particular that you're going to dig.

Okay. The first is called The Wager. So the first two books I'm suggesting are ship books. It's about

shipping ships in the 1800s. Yep. So the first one's called The Wager. And so these crazy guys

would sail, you know, their 1800s ship from England all the way down through Argentina,

Argentina, and Cape Horn, and they got stranded and it took them two years to get back. So you'll

dig that one. The second one is called The Heart of the Sea. It's this, uh, if you ever read Moby

Dick about the whale that sinks the ship, there's actually a true story behind it. And so Nan Tuck

it originally was for Quakers who were whale men. And so these whale men would, they would, they're

fucking animals. You want to be talking about savage. Imagine sailing a ship with no electricity,

no, like, way to talk to anyone for two years, all the way over sometimes to the Pacific, to

Africa. And they, um, basically their ship was sunk in the middle of the Pacific and it's about how

they got back to South America. And then the last one that I think you'll really dig, because I wanted

to give you three books on being the savage. The last one was called Undaunted Courage. And it's

about the story of Lewis and Clark. Okay. Lewis and Clarks, they were, they were savages. They

were in a good way. I like their zone. I've been up in Washington where their, where their, their

trail was in their, their hardcore. Those guys are, they're honorable, but they were bad to the

fucking bone. What I liked is they weren't, they weren't killing anybody. They were just,

they were making maps. So yeah. Yeah. And they would meet these natives and they were like,

Hey, we're in peace. We're going to be cool with you. But it took them two years, two years and

four months to go from St. Louis to the Pacific and back. And it's a crazy story. So those are the

three that I would recommend for you. And then I just finished a story about John Wilkes Booth,

the guy who killed Abe Lincoln and the 12 day man hunt to find him. So I read a ton of that stuff.

Yeah. There was a great, I just had an ocean one too that I can't remember what it is that

it's about the, uh, oh, what's it called? I can't, anyway, there was a great one, a sailing one about

the race from Hobart, like the race from New Zealand, uh, the one that they do.

And there's like, is there a, is there a storm? Is there a storm in that one?

Yeah. Yeah. Crazy storm and the, and the boat and the, the guys get, yeah, it's, it's intense.

The, on that race, because that's one of the craziest races in the world.

Yeah. Yeah. Those, those stories, you know, I, I work on my computer throughout the day.

The, the, the hardest points in my life are if I go boxing or if I have a hard workout and I'm

like, I need some pain in my life in order to realize that, like, uh, to turn down my, the

volume of my daily life because my daily life is soft. So I need to read about something hard

because I can't exactly go and experience lots of hard things. So this is why I like,

like reading about these books, particularly the ship book. So I thought you, you, you'd get a kick

out of those. Absolutely. Well, yeah. Cause those are, those are, I mean, at sea is a real thing.

And especially those guys weren't exactly, uh, watermen too. Like you fall off the boat, you die,

those guys, those guys couldn't even swim, which is crazy. That's what I'm saying. They weren't

exactly watermen. They couldn't even swim and they would live on a ship for 20 years of their life.

They didn't even know how to swim. And also if you fell off a ship in the ocean, those sailboats,

they, or the ships, they can't turn around exactly. You know what I mean? So they just

fucking left you. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. This is, uh, that's hardcore. Well, we, we live in a pretty

soft time right now. This is a pretty, it is soft. It is soft, which I'm thankful for in some capacity.

Oh yeah. You know, like, there's no doubt. But like, so, so that's why I think we have to stuff in

do particularly young men. I think, yeah. Well, that's why they like you. I think it's because

they see you risking your life on a wave and then they like, all right, well, I'm not willing to

risk my life in a wave, but I'll go to a pool and lift out and work, uh, move weights at the bottom

of the pool. Cause at least, uh, that's a little bit of hard. You know what I mean? I think that's

why a lot of young men admire you. Yeah. Well, the stress is good. It's, it's, we need it. We're

designed for it. And you know, that kind of constructive stress that you can control the

environment. Uh, and, and because it's the other one, if you induce it, you don't always have the,

you don't have as much participation in the outcome. If it's just being sub, if you're being

subjected to it, you know, like a giant wave, it can decide not to let you up versus at least in

the pool, you can always just let go your weights and swim to the surface. But we kind of have to

induce it now. It's almost like we're forced in, you know, a lot of the stuff that we're doing is

we're inducing things that we were getting naturally. Like we were getting it from, it's like now we

don't get enough sun. So we got to supplement and take vitamin D. It's like we're having this,

we're having to make up for the fact that we're not getting a lot of this stuff that we need

biologically. And then that's, and that stress, that's why the heat nice is great. That's why the

breath work was great. That's why the pool stuff is great. Cause it's, it's a one of, one of the

ways to stress, to stress the system because the system really needs for it to really work

correctly. It needs a certain amount of stress and not stress of, Hey, I owe taxes or Hey, I'm in

the traffic, but like some other stress is a little more, you know, a little more just purely

physical. So yeah, I remember looking at buying a treadmill for my desk and then I like was like,

what the fuck am I doing this life? I'm going to put a fucking walking treadmill on a desk.

We don't walk and then I like, I, I smacked myself. I was like, this is not the life man.

I'm, this is literally a hamster wheel. What am I doing? I'm not buying a treadmill for a desk.

If I got to buy a treadmill for a desk, I'm, I'm broken. I've lost.

Yeah, but we're almost forced into that. So we don't, I mean, it's like, I was,

like I said, I was in Europe and all they do is walk over there. You know, it's like they do

a lot of walking. We don't walk as nearly as much because we just don't live in those.

I mean, I guess in New York you can, you know, where you have, where you can just, if you want,

you can just, you can force yourself, you have to force yourself, but in Europe, they really

do it a lot. They do a lot of walking and you realize how well we, we, our system really

does well with walking. Like we're designed, we're walkers. Like that's our, one of our big

evolutions was that we came up off all fours and started walking. And so our metabolism and

everything just functions a lot better when we walk. And so it's, it's, you know, like you said

here, now we're having to like buy things so we can stand in a room and walk. It's terrible.

Yeah, I know. I, I, I almost bought one. And then I was going, I like went through an existential

crisis. I'm like, what am I doing? I don't have to do this. I'm not going to.

Better to go, better to just force yourself to go for a walk in the park or something,

you know, make them make time.

Right. Well, I appreciate you doing this. I, I really admire you. I, I, I admire the family

you've built, the, the life that you've built. I'm excited that we were able to talk.

Sam, I really appreciate your time and thank you. I appreciate the admiration and

you know what? It seems like you're, you're already, you're already there already. So

that's the, that's it.

I, I'm basically, I, I read history because I like to see the mistakes as well as the

wins that people have made. And that's one of the reasons why I like following you is I'm just like,

what wins did he make? And you know, that kind of helps point to me to the direction,

what mistakes did he make? All right. I'm going to try and avoid that one.

Yeah. And hopefully it works out, but you've definitely kind of paid the path for me and

a bunch of other people. So I appreciate that.

Well, I think, I think that's one of the things that makes humans unique is that we can learn

from the other people, you know, how to and how not to. It's like, so that's the, that's a,

that's when one of the things that really helps us, you know, is that we can, if we can, I mean,

the best is to learn from other people's mistakes, you know, but we have a tendency

sometimes to need to make them ourselves. That's part of, part of being human, I think too. So

all right. I appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.