My First Million: Joe Rogan Offers $100,000 To Vaccine Expert For A Debate, MJ Sells NC Hornets For Billions & More

You want to know what I am, pro?

A freak show.

I love a good freak show.

Like, when people start fighting in the middle of the street,

or there's a car wreck, you know, I'm stopping.

I'm gonna ask him to pull that wreck a little closer

so I can see.

Like, hey, police, can you fill me in on the backstory?

What's going on?

Like, I love this.

What's going on, fellas?

What we got here?

We're live.

What's going on?

How are you?

What do you think?

I guess it's the first time we've talked since Dear Dick?

Since you moved into a small woman's bedroom or something.

What is this?

Where are you?

I'm visiting family for a month in Brooklyn,

and I've had a rent-a-place.

It's impossible finding monthly rent,

like a three-month rental.

Very hard to find.

So we used Airbnb, and it's the best I can do.

All right.

How's it look?

Does it look like Victorian or something?

Yeah, it looks like, I feel like my sister had this little princess bed

growing up, so it reminds me of that.

What you got today?

You got a, I could see you're eager for something.

What do you have?

I'm eager for something.

And let me preface this by saying, I'm not a political guy.

I'm not really conservative.

I'm not really liberal.

I'm not pro-vaccine.

I'm not anti-vaccine.

I'm not liberal.

I'm not conservative.

I'm best described as aggressive.

I'm really, not only do I, I just don't care is the thing,

but you want to know what I am pro?

A freak show.

I love a good freak show.

Like when people start fighting in the middle of the street

or there's a car wreck, you know, I'm stopping.

I'm going to ask them to pull that wreck a little closer so I can see.

Like, hey, police, can you fill me in on the backstory?

What's going on?

Like, I love this.

What's going on, fellas?

What we got here?

When I, yeah, when I flew here, I flew here, you know,

and I download TV on my YouTube app.

It was three episodes of cops.

That's the kind of guy I am.

So what's got your eye?

What's the freak show that's got your eye?

So basically this Joe Rogan Kennedy thing.

So here's the background.

Robert F. Kennedy, you know, he's, he's, he's Kennedy junior.

I don't, I don't know what his acronym is.

He needs a good like RFK junior.

RFKJ.

Is that it?

So basically this guy, he, I actually saw him talk a couple of times

because I like went through an obsession with the Kennedy family,

but he's Robert Kennedy's who's JFK's brother.

So he's JFK's nephew.

He's running for president now and he's been doing the pod circuit.

He went on all in and then he recently went on Joe Rogan.

And I don't even know all the things that he said because I don't

really care that much, but he said a lot of things that could be

categorized as anti-vaccine.

So, but, and here's what happened.

This is the cool part.

There's this famous professor and kind of famous vaccine guy who's

been tweeting all of his opinions and everything.

He tweeted out that he says Spotify has stopped even sort of trying

to stem Joe Rogan's vaccine misinformation.

It's really awful.

And from all the online attacks I'm receiving after this podcast,

it's just observed and it's clear many people believe this nonsense.

Now here's where it gets interesting.

Joe Rogan is a type of guy who doesn't normally respond to this type of stuff.

He kind of, he seems like he's got thick skin.

He doesn't really get bothered by this.

But the same, on the same day he replied and he goes, Peter,

if you claim what RFJ junior said is misinformation,

I'm offering you $100,000 to the charity of your choice if you're

willing to come onto the pod and debate him on my show with no time limit.

From there, it's snowball.

So now it's up to $2.6 million of other people.

So Bill Ackman put up 150K, Dave Rubin, Rubin 100K, Patrick Bate,

Patrick Bate, David 100K.

I think even like Andrew Tate is now offering 500K.

So now there's two point-

Don't forget, Jason Calacan has come in with a hard 10K.

Try to slip that in and say, I, I'm with you.

Put me down for, put me down for a buck.

Yeah.

Well, here's the thing.

I was like thinking about this.

I'm like, should I hop in on this and just like say some number?

Who's gonna collect?

Can I get-

Collecting from these people.

No one's collecting.

Yeah.

How could I insert this and how could I insert myself into this situation?

But now it's $2.6 million to get this guy on the show.

And I'm, I think he's said so far that he's not going to do it.

And I just thought, this is awesome.

I love a good freak show.

I love like, I think that we actually have a presidential candidate coming to our pod soon.

I don't know if you know this yet, but I've said it.

Don't tell me.

I'd love to be surprised.

Yeah.

I love a good surprise.

He's a guy, he started a pharmaceutical company.

His name's Vivek.

And he like, he DM'd me like six or 12 months ago saying he's going to run for president.

And I like laughed at it.

I didn't laugh at it.

I just didn't even respond, which is worse.

You know what I'd love to do because I think that guy's kind of interesting.

But I think what would be more interesting is if we have, cause he's kind of, let's say

a, you know, an upstart candidate or whatever, like he's like, you know, not the favorite.

He's not the leading guy.

I would, it would be great if we had two of the upstart candidates come on at the same

time.

And so we could debate them because it's actually kind of boring when you have one candidate

come on and they just kind of monologue their piece for a very long time.

Like I've seen a bunch of these guys go on podcasts and frankly, it's kind of boring when

that happens.

I would love to have like the most pipsqueak debate of all time.

It's like us moderating who don't know anything about politics.

Two candidates that only like half, half a percent in the polls.

And we're just like, it's, this is the showdown.

Hundreds of dollars donated to charity.

What's the question going to be like, what's your opinion on car crashes?

Like we don't know anything.

Like do you like websites?

Ending of breaking bad.

Good or a little underwhelming?

Yeah.

Call your wife right now.

Call your wife right now.

I want to talk to her.

I want to see what she's got to say about you.

Dude, like we don't know anything.

But last time, what was the Asian guy who ran last year who like said he loved math?

Yeah, dude.

Did he run and say, I love math?

I mean, that's just like, I think that was like a slogan was like, make math great again.

I thought that's what it was.

But he, he messaged me also like a year before.

Well, he messaged me before like one of our events, hustle county is like, Hey,

I'm going to run for president.

Can I come talk?

And I was like, I wanted you to be VP.

I was like, dude, you're going to make me look stupid by some crazy guy saying he's going to run for president.

You're like that guy on the street who like holds up a sign.

You know, it says like aliens are coming.

I can't associate with that.

And then turns out he kind of made a good run.

And so this time I was like, I have to take this at least a little seriously.

And so that's why we have to have Vivek on.

But yeah, what are we going to have two guys and be like, uh,

I'm right.

Or.

Yeah.

Ask them about their workout routines.

Cause we're going to compare you on things that we value in other men.

So, you know, like here's the situation.

Person breaks into your house and we just see how they react.

And the reason I'm bringing this up is I'm not one of these guys that says like, Oh, like,

I think Jason Calcane has said this.

He's like podcasts are going to shape the next presidential election.

He said the next president will be, will, will be decided off of podcasts or

something ridiculous like that.

Let me, let me, let me look.

I'm not like an apps.

By the way, do we have a little beef with Jason Calcane?

He's kind of sliding into our mentions here.

He's coming in a little hot.

I got to say.

I like Jason Calcane's, but if, if you'd like some internet beef,

I would happily be the recipient of some internet beef.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're the chef boy.

Let's do this.

I like Jason too.

I've only hung out with him a couple of times that he's always,

he's always been nice to me, but he's been nice to me in like a root uncle type of way

where it's like, pat you on the head and get your compliment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's like, Oh, that podcast you have, it's really great.

I think it's precious.

You know what I mean?

Like he's like, Jason said he loved my startup, but then he said he was cute at the end.

Yeah.

What's up with that?

Yeah.

So, but if, if for the sake of entertainment, I'm happy to, I'm happy to call him out.

Well, I want to do two things.

So first on your birthday, I tweeted out, you know, just a little thing and then he,

he, he came into, I tweeted out a thing.

I was like, yeah, happy birthday too.

And I made up a bunch of nicknames.

I was like the vanilla gorilla, the long arm of the law, you know, whatever,

the 2% milk himself, Sam Parr.

And I was like, you know, gave you a little shout out like that, just freestyling.

And he replies with the, the, the like, hmm, think face as if, because I think I was like,

what the hell is this?

What does this mean?

And then somebody met, they were like, oh, I think he thinks you stole his stick from

all in where he, he gave them nicknames like the Sultan of science, the queen of quinoa,

whatever.

Right.

And is that a Jason Calcanus trademark?

Yeah.

I was like, oh, you think you started nicknames?

Can I nickname like the, like turning left?

Like, is that a thing?

Like, can we, can we trademark blue?

Yeah.

Ridiculous.

That's a little weird.

So yeah, I do think he passes it in the head and thinks it's good.

But then there was another, another hilarious Jason Calcanus moment I got to say from Twitter.

So, so I just replied and I said, I said, all in billionaires talking about billionaire

shit, MFM millionaires talking about millionaire shit.

That's a description.

So people liked it.

But someone, someone said, except Jason, they go, oh, they go all in three billionaires

and their friend Jason.

I was like, okay, that's a good bird.

And then he came back and said, you know, a bottom five lamest thing you could say,

he goes more like one billionaire and three centi millionaires.

Whatever.

Just roll with the punches, man.

You never want to say centi, centi millionaires.

That's like, if I had to insult someone with a hundred million dollars, I would call them

a centi millionaire.

Yeah.

Like five, eleven and a half.

Exactly.

That's got big five, eleven energy.

That's really good.

I do want to challenge, by the way, I want to challenge the all in podcast to a poker

game, by the way, I will play all of the all in podcasts.

I'll pay all heads up and a game of poker.

So I will play them heads up.

I'll put up a hundred thousand dollars.

And if they beat, if two out of the four beat me, they get the hundred grand.

But if I beat three or four out of the four, I get a hundred grand from them.

They only have to put up 25K each.

And I'll play them heads up.

We'll live stream the whole thing.

You really think you'd win?

We'll live stream the whole thing.

And I will go in order from centi millionaire to billionaire.

So I'll play Jason first.

Make quick work of Jason.

And then I'll go Friedberg, Sax and then Chamath at the end.

Because I think they think Chamath is the best player out of them.

Are you good?

I mean, I know nothing about poker.

Are you good?

I'm better than them.

That's all they need to know.

I mean, they named their pot after it.

I mean, they're basing there a little bit of their brand on that.

My nickname is the nuts.

And if you know about poker, you know what that means.

So we have our own nick names for ourselves.

All right, let's get back to it.

I don't know why I got on this.

We could wrap up this little part, but I'm not one to say like,

I'm not going to make an absolute statement like Jason did.

But I do think that there is like, we are going to see that this little

free show that's going on right now is awesome for RFK.

It's beneficial to him for sure.

For sure.

And I think we'll see a little bit more of podcasting.

And here's why I think that this is inside baseball.

A lot of people don't realize this, but so the hustle now is read by,

let's say, three and a half to four million people.

I have 250,000 followers on Twitter.

I think sure.

Yeah, it's precious.

Sean, you had 250,000.

I've got 250,000 followers on Twitter.

You have 350,000.

The pod, let's just say has 100,000 listeners per episode.

The pod consistently out punches in terms of engagement,

all of those things I would say.

Would you agree with that?

In terms of like people who actually like trust and will take action on

things.

Yes.

Yeah.

100%.

So I do think that for people who don't realize or who aren't in the

game, they don't realize that podcasts, I have significantly more

influence over people than I think any other medium that I've used

or that I have access to.

I don't have a big YouTube.

Yeah.

I think YouTube would do the same.

But yeah, podcasts definitely do.

I agree with you.

I think podcasts are a little bit of a sleeper still, which is,

you know, depending on who you are.

But I think people are shocked at how effective podcasts are at

swaying opinion.

I want to point out a couple other things.

So some people are saying, oh, Joe Rogan, you're just doing this

self-serving thing.

You're just trying to have this freak show, this debate to like pump

your ratings.

I would say not true at all.

Look at somebody's actions, not their words.

Joe turned down having Trump on his podcast.

He turned down having other presidential candidates on his podcast

that he thought would just kind of be promotional or not a good

conversation or bring unwanted attention to the pod.

Like saying no to Trump is saying no to ratings, especially in the

last election when he was kind of on the rise.

And he just said, you know, I'd rather not.

I'd rather not do that.

I'm not sure I'm the right person to moderate that debate.

And, you know, I don't think that they would be truthful.

I think they would talk talking points, you know, if I had Hillary

or Biden on.

So I'm not sure that that would be a good thing.

So I think you can't really say that Joe's just doing this for

ratings.

I think Joe actually, I think Joe actually thinks of RFK.

I think he actually sides with RFK and says, all right, if you're

going to say this guy's full of shit, come explain why and let him

let him argue with you and let's see where it lands.

That's the first thing.

The second thing is, have you seen this guy, this the scientist?

I saw what he looks like.

He looks like I would think a sign.

I mean, he just looks like a nerd, right?

Like an older.

Yeah, it looks like a guy like cosplaying Neil deGrasse Tyson.

So he, so check out this clip.

Do you take care of your immune system in other ways?

Do you take probiotics?

Are you cautious about your diet?

I'm not as cautious about my diet as I should be.

I'm a junk foodaholic.

That seems ridiculous for someone who works with health.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's going on with you, man?

Sometimes, man.

I just don't get it right.

So you live in large, we call it.

Like that mouth pleasure so much you're willing to sacrifice a little

bit.

I mean, I have to concede that's the case.

Do you take vitamins?

I don't take vitamins.

Really?

Yeah.

Wow.

What about essential fatty acids, which are great for your brain,

fish oil, all these different things that are fantastic.

I'm not going to argue with you.

What's going on with you, doctor?

You got it over me.

You got to listen, but you would have a much better argument.

You're making my wife stay here.

If you're taking care of yourself 100% instead of just concentrating.

But you still need your vaccines.

I'm sure you do, but vaccines aren't going to prevent cancer.

No.

That's true.

We got to get you healthy, buddy.

Yeah.

Can't be pushing only chemicals and injectable forms to facilitate health.

Fair enough.

Yeah.

Not chemicals.

They're vaccines.

Oh, I'm sorry.

What's in them?

What?

I mean, it's some sort of chemical now.

No other antigens, right?

What's the fluid?

Macromolecules.

What's the liquid stuff?

Typically it would be saline or, you know, saltwater.

So it's him on Rogan.

It's the same scientist, I believe, on Rogan.

And in the past.

Peter.

So he's talking, and he's talking about vaccines.

And he says something about, he says something about, he's very pro-vaccine.

So he's like, says something about vaccines.

And Joe's like, yeah, but you know, like, not everybody feels good.

It's like putting chemicals in their bodies.

Like, oh, it's not chemicals.

It's, uh, these are antigens.

These are, you know, cells.

And he's like, okay, well, you know what I mean?

Like just putting something else in your body.

Like, you know, are you taking care of the main things?

And he asked Peter.

He goes, he goes, do you do other things, uh, to be healthy?

Cause like Peter's kind of like, you know, he's circular in shape.

And so, uh, and he's like, well, you know, I, I do, I dabble in junk food and Joe just

starts pressing them.

And I've never really seen Joe do this, but I think he wanted to make a point.

He's like, how, how much are we talking?

Like once in a while or like every day?

And he's like, no, not every day.

Like, so how often?

And he's like, I don't know, like every other day, and he's like, uh, what do you, what

do you have?

He's like potato chips or, you know, a candy or whatever.

And he's like, do you exercise?

And he's like, basically this guy over like a two minute period is like, yeah, I eat

like shit and I don't exercise.

Um, and Joe's like, isn't that crazy?

Like, shouldn't you like, you know better than that, right?

Like you're saying people are crazy for not taking vaccines or pushing against them,

but like you are not doing the basics of human health.

Like you're not exercising.

You're not eating in a nutritious way.

Like, don't you see that?

That's a problem.

He's like, yeah, I should, you know, no one's perfect.

Uh, and he's like, he's like, do you really just love that mouth pleasure so much that

you like goes in on him a little bit, which, which I've never seen Joe do.

He's like generally like quite like amenable.

Like, you know, he's not really, doesn't really do that.

But I think for him, it is like a, you know, he plants a flag around like you got it.

He's like, it's not negotiable.

Like, you know, he's like, you know, for me, I travel somewhere.

First thing I do is I go to the gym.

It's just a non-negotiable.

It's just something I do.

And then the other guy goes, yeah, I do that too.

And I was like, no, I don't think you do that too.

You're going to tell him, look at his face.

He's like, yeah, but it's different maybe the way I'm doing it and the way you're doing

it because look at what's happening here.

Dude, whenever I, uh, when I go and pick which doctors I'm going to use, uh, like when I

go to a new city or something, I definitely, their body matters.

Right.

Right.

You don't want the bald barber.

Um, yeah.

Like I, I went to one doctor and she had this beautiful vein up her bicep and I was like,

I'm in.

I'm in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

I was in.

There's some other strange stuff about this guy.

Like, uh, his daughter has autism and he wrote a book called like Rachel's vaccines

didn't cause Rachel's autism or something like that, which I just thought was like a

really, I don't know.

I can't imagine as a parent doing that.

That sounds like just very aggressive.

Yeah.

Um, so anyways, I would say, and it's funny to see the debate here because some people

are like, there's on both sides.

There's the Rogan, you know, macho bro, which is basically like, yeah, bro, showdown, let's

go.

I mean, behind the school, the three PM, they want to see a fight happen and they really

just want to see him like get punked is kind of like one energy.

And then the other energy is like, this is a stupid.

This is not what scientists like trying to bully a scientist into debating when that's

not his skill.

Like this other guy's, he's a politician.

He's going to have talking points written for him, all the stuff.

Well, he's not a politician.

He's not a, he's a wannabe politician.

Well, yeah, I guess trying to be currently, but they're basically like, this one guy's

like, you know, uh, this is what he's doing.

He's going around talking about the stuff he's been doing that you've been giving talks

on the stuff for a long time.

And this guy's, you know, trying to just be a scientist.

He didn't sign up to be like kind of a debater of the stuff.

Um, so that's like the other point of view and they're sort of like anti bro in that

way of like, you can't like, uh, stop trying to make this a fight.

That's like anti science to do that.

There's one guy who I really liked his name is Yishan Long.

He used to be, he's like from the, uh, from the tech world and he, um, he worked at Facebook

early on.

He was the CEO of Reddit.

Oh, he has a, he has a new company where he's trying to plant trees.

Yeah, exactly.

Uh, he's trying to change the climate by planting trees.

Uh, I just want to read you what he said.

I thought he had, uh, I thought he had a good point.

So he goes, every science and tech person is currently on the bandwagon calling for

the vaccine doctor to go on rogue and a debate should be ashamed of themselves.

Um, if you care about the truth of science, like, uh, kind of a podcast debate is probably

the worst thing to advocate for.

Usually that argument goes something like this, if you're the Vax doc and you're so

sure you're right, you should be willing to go on and defend it.

Otherwise you lose credibility.

That sounds like a good statement, but he's like, uh, it's an example of what Plato, the

philosopher would call, uh, rhetoric's oral spell in simple terms, what he's explaining

is like, there's a difference between what is actually the truth and what can be said

in a very persuasive way.

And you should want a medium where it's all about who could be most persuasive.

You should want to, if you want to debate to the truth, you should do it in a way where

per, your charisma, your persuasiveness, your loudness, uh, your on the spot thinking

is D prioritize compared to just like making your most logical argument and then letting

somebody take time and refute it.

And he's basically like, I call it the Malcolm Gladwell effect.

You know, like he writes so well and even though it's theories, I'm like, Oh, it must

be true.

Right.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

You, when you hear somebody who's so eloquent, you can, you can conflate how nice it sounds

and how persuasive it sounds for how true the actual argument is and vice versa.

Somebody could be so dry and boring that even though they're saying something that's really

on point, the message is not received by the, by the market.

So he basically says, uh, he's like, you know, if you really wanted to do this, this is what

you would do.

Uh, so I, I just to finish the Plato thing, it's basically, um, uh, oratory.

So just going in verbally, you know, giving like a speech or a presentation, um, is the

medium where you're most likely to have people fall under a great oratory spells.

And he's like, people are more like sheep than you, than you want to think.

And a great order can get people to do crazy things.

And if you've ever seen Hitler give a speech or, uh, you know, Mussolini give a speech,

you could see how a great order from, and you've seen it in the good direction and the

bad direction, how a great order can move people to do something and believe something

that may not, they may not have actually believed otherwise.

Uh, so anyways, his, his point was like, if you really want to do this, they should do

it through long form boring writing.

One person should write down their argument with, uh, sources cited, give the other person

time to respond to each line, each paragraph of that argument.

And then you'll have basically both sides of the argument written out.

Uh, nobody wants to do this because this is boring.

And, um, if you actually wanted the truth, though, that would be the way.

And I thought that that was really good.

And it reminded me of something that was in companies that I had also seen from,

from, uh, Yashon's blog, which was, he was like, yeah, in companies, the same thing

happens, um, the person in a meeting who is tall, charismatic, uh, willing to put

their opinions forward, basically they are a hundred percent confident in their

opinions.

Yeah, exactly.

Sound familiar?

No, I'm not holding up a mirror right now.

Um, but basically that person is going to like disproportionately sway what

actually happens and, um, and actually there's another method.

So he basically, it's called the Delphi method and the Delphi method was basically

this method where, um, you bring up a topic, uh, everybody sort of presents,

everybody gets the same set of facts, then you write down your initial thoughts

and statements and then they're circulated.

Everybody reads everybody's initial thoughts and statements anonymously.

You don't know who said this.

So you can't just, oh, the CEO thinks this.

Okay.

I guess it's right.

Uh, you just judge it by the merits of the argument anonymously, everybody

reads it and then you can go revise your statement based on new information that

you've got and you update it and you pass it around again until you get to,

you know, uh, a sort of like, you know, what, what, what people believe is the

strongest, strongest meritocratic, um, argument after several rounds.

How do you spell that?

It's called the what?

Delphi D L P H I.

And there's a couple of benefits of this first anonymous.

So it's not just like the, the, the highest ranking official gets their way.

Second is it's time delay.

So you don't reward time, like for a great decision, you don't need to think

of the answer like right on the spot.

Like if it takes you five minutes to think of something, five minutes is nothing,

but in a meeting, five minutes is everything.

You can't just sit there quietly thinking and formulating an idea for,

for 15 minutes or an hour, uh, the meeting's over by then.

And so the argument has moved on by then.

So this time delay and anonymity is really important.

And I love this.

And, um, I'll tell you, I shared this with, uh, with the CEO at Twitch and I was

like, I think we should do this.

He was like, dude, I love this.

This actually would solve one of our biggest problems I think we have in our

meetings, which is people think that my opinion is the answer is shouldn't be.

I'm actually usually the least informed on the topic because I'm the furthest

away from the data.

Um, and secondly, like we reward the loudest, the loudest mouth and not maybe

the most thoughtful person who, who could have an answer.

And it's really hard in a, in a normal meeting setting to get that person to speak.

Um, then I'll give you one more data point.

Josh Elman, who's a, an awesome dude friend of the pod.

He's a, he's a VC plus like now he works at Apple, but he was basically like

the growth guy at Twitter, the growth guy at LinkedIn, the growth guy at Facebook.

Like he would like lead growth at like three or four of Robin hood, Robin hood.

Uh, he invested in discord.

He led growth at like four of the biggest consumer hits there's ever been.

He for fun, the other, you know, while he's kind of like, you know, just kind of

goofing off now, he for fun built this Slack app that does the same thing.

He's like, yo, Slack is kind of rewards the same thing.

Like whoever's online the most gets to like say the thing in Slack.

Um, and he created this app that was like a time delay.

So you, anybody could prompt a question and then everybody has a certain amount of

time, like in the question, it'll say, you have, you know, we'll, we'll read

the answers in four hours.

So anybody could write their answer within the four hour period.

What's it called?

Oh, thinking time is the name of it.

Um, so just Google Josh Elman thinking time.

It's a Slack app and thinking time.org is the, is the URL.

And basically it just gave you time.

And then you could say, all right, here's what I think, I think X.

And then it tells you all the answers will be released together in 30 minutes.

And then in 30 minutes, it posts everybody's answers at the same time to

prevent group think, and I just love this.

Cause I think these little like nuances actually can really change the way

any group of people interact.

Um, cause I know I'm guilty of it all the time.

I'm, I'm loud.

I'm persuasive, but that doesn't mean I'm smart.

It doesn't mean I'm right.

And, uh, I like actively look for methods or tools to counteract that.

This is, um, A, awesome.

I'm going to use these things.

I like that B in real time.

I just want to call out what just happened.

This is called a good partnership where I bring kind of shit.

And Sean just kind of polishes that shit and we somehow get something amazing.

This is, this is, this is called chemistry.

My friend, this is, this is how it's done.

That was, that was beautiful.

I didn't know you knew all that stuff and you tied it around perfectly.

I'm actually was asking those questions and I'm writing notes.

I'm actually going to go use this thing thinking time and the Delphi method.

That's awesome.

Um, I've got a few more things, but you want to go to a quick one first.

Uh, I got a simple business opportunity for people.

So I don't know if you know this dude, but, uh, so Google analytics,

which is the most popular analytics tool on the planet is, it's just like,

basically shutting down.

They're not saying it's shutting down.

They're like, it's changing for the worse.

Like I would love to see, actually I want to film a commercial on behalf of all

marketers out there of the Google fake Google, how fake Google analytics commercial

where it's like, but what if we made it worse in every way?

What if we rethought it and removed all the key functionality and replaced it

with vague analytics?

Wouldn't that be better than precise analytics?

It's like people wondering why I think the reason why is because of all the

privacy stuff, the cookie stuff.

So basically the same thing that happened to Facebook where Apple changed

their rules, the iOS 14 rules, and all of a sudden Facebook ad performance went

down and it was like, yo, genius is over there.

Why, why is, why is performance down and why don't you have attribution?

Like, why don't we, you know, if I spent $1,000 on this ad, did I make

900, 1200, what did I make?

Why can't you just tell me that?

Uh, you know, I put your pixel on my website, you know, your Facebook,

you're the biggest geniuses in the world.

It's impossible.

And the reason why is because now legally they're not allowed to like use

this type of tracking that they used before where it's not a technical

problem, it's a regulation problem.

Meaning the site that serves the ads can't also track the users on third

party websites.

And this is why portfolio company triple whale exploded on one of my investments

exploded in popularity and is now like, you know, on track to be this huge

winner because let's say you owned an e-commerce store and you were using

Facebook and you're spending, like we spent hundreds of thousands on

Facebook ads every month.

Um, we, we have to know is, you know, how, how our Facebook ads are performing.

And when Facebook's ability to track that got cut off due to regulation,

people were like, what's another solution?

And triple, it was like, Hey, we have this thing called triple whale fix.

So we can tell you more accurately than Facebook, how your ads are doing.

And so everybody signed up, triple whale takes off, does amazing.

And so, uh, I think the same thing happened to Google where Google had to,

because of the privacy reasons, be like, all right, you know what, we,

yeah, there's going to ballpark because of the ads business.

We got to just, you know, lick a finger and, and, and guess, you know,

roughly you got about this much, uh, traffic conversion, et cetera.

And so, um, not great.

So they're upgrading to this thing called GA four.

It's called a Google analytics lackadaisical.

That's like the new update.

That's the update.

After six beers and it needs a nap.

Um, yeah.

And every marketer I know hates this thing.

And also nobody knows how to migrate from Google analytics to GA four.

It's like a, there's like, every time you log into Google analytics,

there's literally like a ticking countdown.

Like it's, you know, season four of 24.

It's like, you're like, your analytics are about to explode.

You need to go learn this new tool that by the way sucks.

And you need to migrate everything over.

Cause in 14 days, there's no more Google analytics for you.

And, um, so me and a bunch of other people are like, how do you do this?

And we try to migrate over, didn't we're like, is this working?

I don't know if this is working out of the box.

And I think right now there's a very simple business opportunity for somebody

to go be the GA four export expert, put out a ton of free content and be like,

I will handle your migration for you.

And you just cold email every business owner that you can think of it, maybe

in the e-commerce space, that's where I would start, but if not e-commerce,

SaaS businesses, whatever, and be like, Hey, do you want to help migrating

over to GA four?

I'll do the whole thing for you.

It's done for you turnkey.

Just pay me, uh, you know, $1,500 and, uh, and I'll do it.

I think you could, I think somebody can make a million dollars in the next six

months, just migrating people over to GA four and auditing their GA four to be

like, Hey, is this set up correctly?

Um, just as a one person service business or a two person service business.

I agree.

I need it.

I need it.

We've been trying to like figure this out.

I don't even know how to set up reports.

I was out of the game for about a year and a half and then I came back and

everything done changed.

I don't know how to do it.

Dude, you, you know what else has changed is pronouns and Google analytics.

What the hell just happened?

I take two years off and business doesn't work the same way anymore.

There's no office.

Dude, everything has changed.

Another thing that's changed is newsletters.

Like people are asking me, like, what do we do for this newsletter?

And I'm like, dude, I don't know.

It's been two years and in that amount of time, everything has changed.

Like when we started the hustle, it was us morning, brewing the skim.

And I always, I don't like saying it this way because it sounds like it's a

bigger deal than it is because it's not, but we kind of like pioneered this

very small industry and now people take it seriously.

And there's all these like agencies around it and they tell me what they're doing.

And I'm like, I don't, I don't get any of that.

I don't understand how any of this works.

It just, things have changed very quickly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, I was going to say something, but I decided to, to, um, take the high road on,

on something that I was going to call someone out on Twitter, but I just decided

not to do it.

I think you'll know who it is, but, uh, yeah, I'll avoid it.

Um, okay.

I got another thing for you.

What?

How would you like to hear about a business deal that, uh, involves one of the goats,

uh, that involves billions of dollars that involves a messy divorce.

Let me tell you the story about Michael Jordan selling, uh, his team right now,

the Charlotte Hornets.

That was related to a divorce in a roundabout way.

So the story actually, so, so a lot of people are looking at the story right now.

And they're like, Michael Jordan bought this team for, I think 275 million

dollars and it's about to sell for two billion dollars.

The whole thing, did he sell the whole thing?

I don't think anybody, I don't think any of the NBA owners own 100%, but I think

he's the majority owner.

So he, um, the valuation of the team at the time was 275 million and he bought it.

And now it's going to sell for two billion dollars.

MJ strikes again, the goat, the goat strikes again.

The guy's going to make, you know, more money doing this than he ever made

playing and more money on this, probably than he made through his Nike deal as well.

So, you know, found a new, found a new way to like, you know, double his wealth.

But what's interesting is actually who owned the Hornets before MJ did.

Uh, so I don't know if you know, uh, do you know the story?

Do you know who his owner was?

This guy Bob Johnson, does that sound familiar?

Most generic name I raised.

I know eight Bob Johnson's.

Well, do you know the one that was the richest black man in America at a, at a

given time?

Well, okay.

We're narrowing it down.

No, but maybe he's the guy who started B.T.

So yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I listened to his, uh, his wife was, uh, his wife was like also the, the head

honcho, I think, right?

Him and his wife kind of ran it.

I'm not sure about that.

So he starts, um, B.T.

with like a, he has $15,000 of his own money.

He puts that in, he gets $500,000 from a guy named John Malone.

And he's like, look, there's no cable network.

There's no channel that's caters towards black Americans.

And he's like, you know, we can do this, we can build this up.

And so they had music, obviously.

So it's basically like the black MTV, they had music, they had award shows,

culture, whatever.

B.T. is a winner and B.T.

wins, he sells B.T.

to Viacom for $3 billion, which is just an incredible outcome.

All right.

So he.

Did he own the whole thing?

Yeah, they were the, I don't know what John Malone got.

I don't know if it was a loan or equity, but like, yeah, he owned the majority of it.

So after everything is all, after everything settles, Bob Johnson is reportedly

worth, you know, about a billion and a half dollars, 1.3 to 1.5 billion dollars.

And he diversifies.

He puts a bunch of money into real estate.

He owns hotels.

So he owns hotel chains.

He owns, um, uh, you know, a bunch of different like assets, basically.

But they're all kind of like cash, cash, heavy assets of building hotels.

That was a lot.

Um, he had like, I think a casino type thing or like some, some gambling

thing or whatever he needed money for that.

Um, so he's put it out a lot of cash, then he gets divorced.

He gets divorced and his wife gets 400 million out of the 1.3 billion awarded

to her in the judgment.

So that judge made a, uh, you know, gave her a very nice, uh, settlement or

very nice, uh, ruling guess who she marries a few months later, the judge.

No way, no way, I don't know if it was a few months later.

I shouldn't say that Mary's the judge, which is just incredible.

Wow.

That's an incredible anecdote.

I wasn't, I honestly wasn't going to tell the story until I heard that.

I was like, Oh, I gotta tell the story just cause that is, that's how

think that is amazing.

So, so did, did, did, but then they, did they freak out afterwards and appeal it?

Or is that a thing?

I don't think it was done.

So, so he, so this happens, he buys an NBA team.

So he buys the Bobcats at the time, um, for $300 million.

And, um, I think there were like the expansion franchise, basically.

And so, but they're burning money.

So he's losing 20 to $25 million a year.

He loses another 200, so he buys it for 300, then he loses 200 million operating

the thing and just operating expenses, which is crazy because there's this famous

phrase when it comes to NBA teams that nobody's ever lost money running an

NBA team and all the owners claim they're losing money, but it's really just

like a negotiation thing against the players.

They don't want anybody to know how much money they're actually making or they'll

run it at like a slight loss, but the franchise value is appreciating like crazy.

So they're like, Oh, poor us.

How could we ever afford to pay for our stadium?

It's like, dude, you bought this for 300 million.

It's now worth three billion.

Like, I think you can, I think you can afford it.

Um, so he's losing money.

He's got all his money tied up in investments.

He's got a ton of debt.

He's using a ton of debt to build this thing.

He's like, all right, look, I need to turn this team around.

He hires Michael Jordan.

So he's like, Mike, come, come work for the Bobcats.

You're from Charlotte and, um, you know, come work for the local team.

You, you run the team.

So he's Michael's running the team, but Bob is getting stretched for cash.

And basically he's got too much debt and his shit's all about to come do.

And so he's about to lose his entire empire because he can't come up with

enough money to pay off his, his, uh, his note.

And they're about to take all the collateral.

So he's about to lose all his hotels and his, his team.

Do you think that in those situations, which has happened a lot, they go to the

ex-wife and they're like, Hey, uh, do you remember that time that I tried

to make sure you've got nothing, but you still got something.

Can we talk?

You know what I mean?

Like, I wonder if there's any, I wonder if that I've never been close to

this is where we had our first date.

Uh, you know why I brought you here.

I just wanted to see if you had any of those feelings left for me because, uh,

I'm about to lose it all.

So he's about to lose it all.

And he's like, okay, I need to like sell the team or something, but the

team is losing money and they're the worst team.

They're the sorriest team.

So he wants to sell it for like, you know, 350 million or something like that.

Can't find a buyer.

MJ comes to him and says, all right, I'll buy it.

Um, I'm going to buy, I'm going to buy it for, I'll put down 25 million in cash.

Just 25 million and I wanted out of $275 million valuation.

So he gets like a 25, 30% discount on the team.

Cause Bob's under pressure and has no other choice.

Basically he's like, but here's what I'll do.

I'll assume all the debts of the team.

So I'll get you off this debt, which will relieve the pressure on you.

So MJ buys this team for only 25 million down and now is going to sell this thing

for two billion, which is like a, you know, a hundred X cash on cash for

true for him buying this team, which is just an incredible move.

And yet another reason MJ is one of the goats.

There's a shark.

Is that story popular?

I've never heard that.

No, that's not popular.

That's a, that's a, that's a MFM original and MFM classic soon to be copycatted

by all of our little fanboys everywhere who will take this and turn this into a

thread and newsletter, a tick tock and an IG reel for themselves.

So, you know, it'll be everywhere soon.

The one thing that another interesting twist, it's going to be, here's what

it's going to be called.

It's going to be called like Michael Jordan made money.

He became a billionaire in ways that you didn't even realize were possible and

has nothing to do with him playing and has nothing to do with Nike.

Here's the story of how Michael, Michael Jordan turned $25 million.

And you broke your hook for you to, um, there's, there is more to the story

potentially.

So the team has sucked ever since Jordan bought them.

And like, basically he actually underperformed like the team sucked.

The franchise values are down.

His franchise value should be up more than it is.

He, so he didn't actually maximize the value on it, but it just shows when you,

when you buy right, it's hard to, you know, hard to lose money at that point.

The other rumor is that MJ is only selling the team because he himself owes

a bunch of money.

That's the other rumor.

I don't know if this is true or not, but.

Well, there's always these crazy conspiracy theories that he's like a

degenerate gambler and like there's always, there was a, I listened to a podcast

called conspiracy theories, and it was how the mob, um, made him retire from the

NBA or something like that.

And then they, there was even theories that they killed his father, not the

conspiracies that they killed his father because he owed money.

And that the commissioner told him, you need to take a couple of years off

cause we could suspend you, but that's a bad look for you and us.

Cause you know, you have this gambling problem, so you just disappear.

So, you know, that's the, that's the conspiracy theory.

Who knows if that's true.

The other version of this is the guy who bought the team.

Now it's got Gabe Plotkin.

He's the guy that ran Melvin Capital, which is the, the hedge fund that the

Redditors did, the Wall Street, uh, Betz guys blew up in the GameStop thing.

And so Gabe lost like $500 million and that they, his fund was about to go

under and then he gets bailed out by what's his name, Ken Griffin.

The rumor is that Michael had given Melvin Capital a lot of money, hundreds

of millions of dollars to invest on his behalf and that they had lost it.

And so, um, he needed cash and so that that's why he sold it.

And now he sold it to that guy.

He sold it to Gabe, which is pretty crazy.

This is, this is juicy, man.

This is, this is a, this is a juicy grape.

This is a, this is a grape of a story.

I love this is a big, a lot of what I just said is stitching together pieces.

Cause people don't come out and say everything, uh, but they do say pieces.

And then you kind of have to assume things in between the game.

And he's protected, Jordan's protected pretty hard.

Like, I remember, uh, you remember that rapper, Camillionaire, uh, he told this story.

He, he like, cause you know, rappers love, uh, Jordan because of, well, he's like a

good, like, you know, a black, a black man succeeding and they love his brand.

And Camillionaire was like, nah, man, Jordan's the worst.

One time I tried to get an autograph from him and Jordan goes, nah, I don't give

autographs or take pictures with N words.

And, uh, like, there's like this store at Camillionaire was like, huh?

And he's like, at the time he was like, I was famous, like, not famous enough that

I thought like Jordan would bow down to me, but famous enough that like, I thought

maybe I would get like a, oh, nice to see you.

And he's like, I, I got nothing.

I got nothing from Jordan and he's an asshole.

And I, and, and I don't remember how he explained it, but it basically I was like,

Oh, Jordan, not a nice guy, not, not, not nice at all.

I would have thought that it was like a story of like, everyone knows that he's

the jerk on the court, but I would thought like, oh, maybe that just like ends

once you retire, but it sounds like maybe that's not the case.

Yeah, I don't know why that would end when he retires.

Okay.

Yeah.

So that's the, uh, that's the Jordan story.

Where do you want to go next?

All right.

I have got one interesting thing.

So everyone wants to say, Sean, what's your ecom store?

Tell me all about it.

And you give out little nibbles and you kind of tell people, you know,

things are going well, but you want to know what the problem with ecom and also a

lot of other businesses that we talk about, the things that are somewhat easy

to start, the valuations are shit.

Like, uh, uh, a decent ecom business right now.

What do you think it sells for five times profit?

Yeah.

One times revenue, which is usually, which is the same thing as five times profit

from most of these.

So the thing is about, is like a lot of these businesses that we talk about and

what people initially start, particularly like the really crap ones, like a drop

shipping or things like that, or an agency, they don't really sell for a lot of

money.

And so I like to research businesses that a can last a really long time.

A lot of ecom businesses, well, a lot of businesses in general don't last long,

particularly ones built off of Facebook and things like that.

Um, or it's a struggle at least.

And also B, they sell for shit.

One type of business that I've brought up consistently is trade shows.

And the reason why is I've noticed a trend where a trade show business can last many,

many, many decades.

Sometimes there's many examples of them lasting a hundred plus years.

And these businesses that are okay, like they're not that fast growing, but they're

good, man, they're consistently selling for 10, sometimes 15 times profit, which is

pretty good.

That can be three times revenue, whereas a media property like the hustle, if it's

only okay, that will sell for five times profit, sometimes six times profit.

It depends how fast it's growing.

But I was reading a flash in flames.

This is like tiny, tiny, tiny trade publication that I read.

And they're telling the story about this guy named Tony Robinson.

He started this company in 1991.

He started this company called UKI.

I believe it's UKI media and his SEO is screwed.

You don't want to be Tony Robinson.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's screwed for a bunch of reasons, but he like never, never gives interviews.

He's like a pretty low key guy, but it's called UKI media and events.

And you could go to the website if you click it.

It's like, it looks old.

It doesn't look special.

And most of the people in the pictures look like they're above 60 years old.

So it's like not like particularly new looking or they're not at least trying to

like be cool.

And, but here's what's interesting.

So they own 17 B2B trade shows and they own a couple magazines, but almost all the

revenue comes from these trade shows.

And their biggest one is a 24 year old thing called the Automotive Testing

Exposition or Expo.

And it's basically, this is like a niche amongst niches.

It's not a car show.

It's a trade show and core exhibition that has, it's where the people making the

machines that help you test if your car works.

So if you're building a Tesla or a Ford or whatever, you're constantly testing

like your new self-driving system or you're testing like, I guess, different new

components in the LCD screen, things like that.

There's people who are building machines to test that.

This is a trade show for those people.

And I was like doing more research about this.

And he was saying, he goes, I chose, I chose to specialize in transportation

and avoid developing products and what's he say, whatever.

Actually, I was going to quote something.

It's not that interesting of a quote, but here's, listen to the revenue.

2019, they did 32 million with 30% margin.

So they made $10 million in profit.

Let's skip 2020 and 21.

They only did 8 million in revenue.

How they still did 8 million in revenue during those periods, I don't know.

2022 post COVID revenue of 26 million, same margin of around 26.

So they did 6.7 million in profit.

2023, the expectation is 30 in revenue, nine in profit.

And there's a rumor that they're about to sell for around 12 times profit.

So this $30 million a year trade show business is about to sell for somewhere

between 100 and 120 million in revenue.

And he's done this multiple times.

So he had one for aircraft interiors expo.

So like people building aircraft interiors, he sold that for 10 times profit.

He also had a magazine company that he sold for only four times profit.

But he's done this multiple times.

And there's this guy in Hampton, his name's Jonathan Wiener.

He's done the same thing.

He did money 2020.

He did shop talk.

And I think he did one more.

He sold each of them for around $100 to $150 million.

And it was like 13 times profit.

I'm going to ask him to come on the pod, but it's just crazy that these trade shows

are consistently selling for 10 or 13 times profit.

Now, here's the opportunity.

If I'm listening to this pod and I'm trying to start a business, what I would do,

there's a whole lot of niche Twitter handles.

There's the strip mall guy.

There's the used car salesperson guy.

There's the used watch guy.

I don't know this for sure.

But I bet it's not just you and I, like a pop culture type of person

who's just like paying attention because it's fun and we're outside.

But I bet there's people like the strip mall guy.

And I bet there's dozens and dozens of other people like that

who are in these really niche in which the actual industry insiders follow them

and they get they get a kick out of them.

It could be like the motor home guy or it could be the, I don't know, whatever it is.

I think you could partner with some of these people and build these trade shows

because the way these these particular this guy, Tony Robinson,

the way that his thing works is I think access to the events are free.

But what they do is they hire salespeople and they pay their salespeople a lot.

You give them, I think he even says in the article, it's like 80 grand a year base.

But up they can earn $300,000 a year.

But what they do is they sell spots or boots at the at the trade show

and they create a map where you can like see it all.

And it's just like real estate, different locations, you get higher prices.

And it's basically like, you know, it's not like a conference like what I used to do,

Hustle Con or Ted Talk, where you're going to like watch content.

Like the content is not important.

You might have speakers, but that's just to attract the right type of people.

It's really to do business.

And so this small, I bet you there's a lot of like 10, 30, 40 million dollar

your businesses that sell components that sell Toyota.

It's like just your door handle.

I don't know something.

And they do business there and they say, all right, great, I got five leads.

That was five leads.

I can probably get a few million dollars if I can close one of those leads.

So it's worth it for me to pay $50,000.

I think someone could do some of these trade shows with a lot

of these industry insiders on Twitter.

And I think that's an interesting opportunity.

And I think it's significantly better than many of the other opportunities,

including agencies that a lot of people are starting online.

It's harder, like if there's bad weather, you're screwed,

or if there's a pandemic, you're screwed.

But these things can sell for way more money

and they can actually last for dozens and dozens and dozens of years.

So that's my pitch on trade shows and a small opportunity.

Yeah, I love it.

I think that's great.

Nobody talks about trade shows more than you in my life.

And I was stunned when I heard about that guy who did Shop Talk, Money 2020.

And I think they did the health care one.

I forgot what that one was called.

Those are it's really, really remarkable.

I don't fully understand it, meaning what don't you understand?

Like, let's kind of walk through it.

So basically, what's the draw to get the attendees to attend?

How do you tell the what is the value prop for the attendees?

Is it meet others in your industry?

Is it see these vendors up close and personal?

Is it listen to these famous people, three famous people talk?

What is the core draw?

Well, I think it's all of the above, but let's go through each one.

First, one you didn't mention is I think sometimes it's like, oh, sick.

I could justify a free trip to Florida.

Like, I'm going to go hang out with people and also, oh, hey, Bob,

who is not really our competitor, but he's in our industry, he might be there.

So maybe I can go and shoot the shit with Bob and hang out with him.

But I could bring like eight of my teammates and we can justify this trip.

I think that's definitely a thing.

The second way that you get the so it's all about this is a marketplace.

So you need the attendees to be there.

The second place, the second way you get there is you need like interesting

speakers, so it could even be someone who's not even related.

But it's like, oh, wow, this one person, like Gary Vaynerchuk.

Like, that's not really in our industry, but like whatever.

Like I would I've always wanted to see what he had to say.

Like, all right, cool.

I can get that person.

And then the third one is let's just see the latest and greatest technology.

And so we can spend one day like getting to know what's going on in our industry.

But I really think a lot of times it's rooted in.

I want to get out of the office and I can justify this $3,000 ticket

and I can get five of my co-workers to go and it's an easy justification.

But in this one, they're giving away the passes for free.

Is that correct?

The this UK, I think.

When I went to their website, they advertised free passes.

So that's the extent of my research.

Gotcha. OK. And then in money, 2020, they charge people. Right.

And so how do they sell those tickets?

How do they how do they build the brand from scratch?

Is it content first, free content?

Then they lead up to it?

Or are they just cold emailing?

What do you know about how that guy, Jonathan Wiener, or whatever his name was,

how they did it?

Well, so that's why it helps to have some type of audience.

And so what you'll notice is a lot of these companies, their trade show and media businesses.

So oftentimes they'll create a blog or magazine in order to get some type of audience.

And then they'll use that to like use their authority to sell tickets.

But other times, I think what you can do is you can just cold email a bunch of people, to be honest.

I think that in order to get.

Look, I said when the first year that I did Hustle Con, I charged $300 and I was a nobody.

So like, I didn't have an email list.

I had nothing.

I got the right speakers and I was able to get 400 people to come.

And that was only in six weeks time.

I think it's actually significantly easier than you think.

If you go into a niche to just tell a handful of people and those handful of people tell a handful of people

because a really successful show in a particular, in a small ish niche,

you can do a lot of damage with a thousand or two thousand people.

But then you really start making revenue after a year.

What trade show would we do off MFM?

Let's say we could get magically get somebody to organize this whole thing because we don't want to do it.

What could we use our distribution for that would be awesome?

Well, I would never want to do this because I think this because the value here is low, but podcasting.

So you could do a podcasting point.

You know, we have 30 friends who are big ish named podcasters.

You could do a podcasting trade show where you have like, what are we using now?

Riverside.

Riverside would be a booth and like, fuck, I don't know, like all this shit that we use.

It's just like the podcast, the business side of podcasting is just so small.

But it's like, oh man, but small is good.

Small is good.

The problem is that the contract values were exactly the issue.

You need something where people spend millions of dollars.

So the podcasting would.

But like, but would you ever want to go?

You don't leave your house.

So but hypothetically, a person like you, would you want to go and like,

shoot the shit with some other guy who's a little bit ahead of you and like just hear best practices?

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Maybe. OK, so podcasting is one. What else?

I don't know, dude. What what what are you interested in?

Oh, it's not what about what I mentioned.

So what do you think? What niche do you think?

What type of niche do you think would work?

So for example, these these guys are doing auto parts and the automotive industry

because it's B2B and a bunch of people are selling, you know, high price things.

We've seen that money 2020 was like, hey, fintech is going to be a thing.

Let's just make the number one.

I don't even know if those are trade shows as much as we're conferences,

but like, let's make the fintech conference.

Let's let's make the e-commerce conference is kind of what they tried to do with those

to like ride an upstart wave.

We could probably do something either involving investing or high net worth people.

So where and your your booths are

different type of like a question that you and I and our friends constantly ask each other is like,

does anyone have like an accountant to they trust or I am having this tax issue?

What are some lawyers that I can trust?

I think you could do something in that vein.

I would have to narrow in on what it would be.

I think you could do something like that where like one customer for a particular law firm

could earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in a lifetime of fees or or or a net worth

or a financial advisor could.

I think you could do something in that vein.

By the way, we've been to a couple of these.

Farmcon, I think, is exactly this.

So that's for the agriculture industry.

We went to that.

Another one is back when I was doing the sushi restaurant.

I remember we somehow were at the QSR.

I don't even know what it's called is the QSR event.

And I just remember that the CEO, the guy who created it is last name was hamburger.

And I was like, like, I forgot what's the name of that effect

where people end up living up to their name?

Like there's like some there's like a whole subreddit about this.

Reddit, people would be just a big juicy guy.

I mean, what would you just just basically this is just the idea of

somebody whose name John Hamburger ends up creating the quick, the fast food

trade show like, you know, Usain Bolt is the fastest man on on earth.

Like, this is just too good to be true.

Like if you're that wolf of franchise guy who we like on Twitter,

oh, yeah, this is what he should do.

You could pull off you could pull off something like this.

Now, it's really the logistically, it's still like this isn't easy.

This is there are some challenges, but it's not easy.

It's a problem that's been solved tons and tons of times.

Like it's not like you're inventing.

We're not inventing anything new.

This is a S. This is we're selling t-shirts.

You know, it's still like revolves logistical issues.

But like it's it's not you're not inventing anything.

Yeah, yeah, that's cool.

All right, I think that's that's good.

I'm going to save my other topics for the for the next episode.

Did that not tickle your fancy?

It does. It seems like you know, it's good when I'm

slacking in the background because I'm just like, oh, here's a half baked idea.

Here's a half baked idea of what could happen.

I think the trade show stuff is actually pretty fascinating.

And I like, you know, I think there's two ways to approach a business.

One is like, what do I love to do?

And let me just follow the like follow my curiosity, follow my natural,

like scratching my own itch type of thing.

And then the other is like the cold calculating like, all right,

let me work backwards from businesses that sell with high multiples.

And I'm just going to go fishing over there because I don't know.

I don't know what my passion is.

So might as well just go calculate the best opportunity.

I've actually done both in my life.

Both can work. You can win both ways.

I think it is better to win when you follow your passion.

But like, but if you're not going to do that,

this is a fun way to reverse engineer what business you should be in.

And I don't want to say this is like an absolute thing,

but it appears as though the company, there's lots of buyers for these businesses

because the way that like there's a handful of publicly traded companies

as well as some really like heavy, heavy, heavy backed PE companies

where what they do is they just buy like eight of them and they put them together

and they do synergistic stuff to reduce costs and whatever.

And it seems as though it's a very, very high buyer market,

whereas like Econ, for example, I don't know if agencies are like this.

I don't know. They might be. They may not be.

But some of the things that people start there,

they seem a little bit more difficult to sell,

whereas these things aren't as difficult to sell.

Totally. That's right.

Good stuff. All right. That's a good episode. I like that one.

That's the pub.

Let's travel never looking back.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.