Between Two Beers Podcast: Jeremy Wells: From Newsboy to Seven Sharp Host, Starting The ACC, Troubled Childhood, and more!

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Auf diesem Episode zwischen zwei Bieres, wir sprechen mit Jeremy Wells.

Jeremy ist einer der besten und höchsten Profil-Broadcasters in New Zealand.

Fünf Tage pro Woche co-hostet er Matt & Jerry Breakfast Radio Show auf HoDakie und 7Sharp auf TVNZ.

Und an Wochenenden kann man oft beherrschen, die kommentierenden Spiele, die man in der

Spur mit den Alternativen kommentieren koalitieren kann.

In diesem Episode, wir sprechen über die Möglichkeit, die Kosten zu haben,

so ein Busy-Works-Schedule zu haben, warum es von der Schule aus gespielt wurde,

war das höchste Punkt in seiner Lebenszeit, die magische Aura von Mikey Havoc und Newsboy,

mit Hilary Barry und Matt Heath, das Irony für Mike Hosking und was die Zukunft betrifft.

Jeremy's Style der Broadcast und die Kommerik im Zeitpunkt war eine große Influenz für uns.

Ihr könnt es sagen, aber wir waren ziemlich glücklich für diesen und hatten große Überraschungen

und Jeremy delivered. Ihr möcht das.

Schauen Sie auf iHeart und werdet ihr Podcast aus oder seht das Video auf YouTube.

Ein großer Dank für die, die die Show auf Patreon supporten, für die Kosten eines Kofferkoffee

im Monat, um zu sein, dass sie zwischen 2beers.com sind.

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von unserem Video und uns unsere private Facebook-Gruppe, HamBassiders, zu chaten mit unserer Community über das Show.

Dieses Episode war von der Export-Beer-Garten-Studie gebracht.

Viel Spaß!

Jeremy Wells, willkommen zwischen 2beers.

Danke für die Einladung, Steve.

Ich bin sehr froh, dass ihr euch auch einen großen Willen zur Export-Beer-Garten-Studie geholfen habt,

das ist wahrscheinlich ein bisschen wie ein zweites Zuhause für euch.

Ist es dein glückliches Ort hier?

Ich habe es nie vorhin gefeiert, also bin ich in einem anderen Weg gefeiert.

Und das ist vor allem ein Audio-Medium, so dass es nicht viel Sinn macht.

Normalerweise fahre ich hinter mir und schaue die Kamera und kommentiere Sport für die ACC.

Und was ich mache, ist, dass ich 2beer-Garten-Studie fahre.

Und ich fahre den Ort, wo ich normalerweise bin, das ist ziemlich...

Das ist ein bisschen verabschiedet.

Es ist ein bisschen ein Job-Interview, oder?

Es ist nicht so.

Es ist so wie wenn man in einer Van fährt, in der die Seen auf den falschen Weg sind,

in einer Sportstrecke, in der man durchgeht.

Und niemand wollte nicht auf diese Seen sitzen,

denn man beginnt zu fühlen, als man in Ripparua oder Rotorua fahre.

Ich war nie ein großer Fan, wenn ich in einer 4-Seat nach vorne fahre.

Denn auf dem Bus waren zwei Räume der 4-Seats.

Der war auf der Front, die 4-Seats auf der Front,

auf der ARA-Busse, die alten ARA-Busse, die alten Mercedes-ARA-Busse.

Und dann war es auf der Back.

Und ich war nie ein Fan von nach vorne gehen.

Ich mag noch nicht nach vorne gehen auf die Trainen.

Das macht mich schmerzlos, eigentlich.

Und du hast eine lange Geschichte auf den Trainen, auch, Jerry.

Ich habe ein bisschen Zeit auf den Trainen gespielt.

Und die Caboose.

Ah, ihr seht schon, dass ihr auf etwas, was ich vorhin gesagt habe.

Ja, wir werden noch alles gut machen.

So, lange Zeit, die Leser wissen,

dass ihr auf der Hitlist seid,

eigentlich, seit wir dieses Pod starten,

ungefähr vier Jahre ago.

So, eine wirklich große Zeit für uns.

Und wir haben uns nur auf der ARA-Busse geredet,

über unsere Broadcasting-Piloten von Influenzen.

Und für mich seid ihr alongside Mark Ellis,

der alte Caboose, und wahrscheinlich Lea Hart.

Es sind Leute, die mir wirklich geholfen haben,

durch meine Teenagers.

Shae, hast du jemand anderes auf der Liste?

Nein, ich weiß nicht.

Vielleicht Susan Paul und Anthony Ray,

in den Influenzen?

Okay, Influenzen nicht.

Ich meine, sie waren da auch.

Du hast mich auf den Spot.

Ja, das ist...

Ja, ja, ja.

Was für eine Show war das,

die Influenzen zu essen?

Und ich glaube, die Leute, die auf der Liste sind,

might not remember, guess who's coming to dinner.

Aber das war ein absoluter Ratingsjuggernaut

für TV2.

around about the time when I actually started

Broadcasting.

And that was on TV2.

And that was doing in those days,

20s, 20 early 20s,

which means 20-something percent of the people

in New Zealand at that time are watching that show.

Which at the time were so around about

over a million people watching that show.

Susan Paul turning up with Anthony Ray Parker

to someone's house and having dinner.

With cameras that they were using

where nobody would ever clean the lens.

And so you're looking through these horrific

early digital cameras, watching this

and it was made super cheap

and it just made so much money in those days,

that show.

That was the pinnacle of television in 1998.

Guess who's coming to dinner.

And I always thought they were a package,

so I was a bit ripped off when Susan Paul

wasn't in any of the Matrix movies

or the first Matrix for sure.

Because Anthony Ray stole the scene

in the, as dozer I think he was.

Was he in the Matrix?

Yeah.

Anthony Ray Parker.

Very much so.

Really?

Very much so.

If I'm proven to be wrong,

this is going to make a hell of an outtake.

But I'm pretty confident he was there.

Okay.

He's not related to Ray Parker Junior, is he?

No.

The Sun Ghostbusters.

No.

As a film hasn't aged well.

I watched it recently.

It's not the Bill Murray character

with the Pisting on Sigourney Weavers.

It's not Good Watching in 2023.

Yeah, because the Anthony Ray Parker,

well no, it's just Ray Parker,

Junior Song as well was actually a rip-off

of Huey Lewis' Song.

You got a new, has it got a new drug or?

You know that song?

No, I don't.

It got found to be plagiarized in the end.

Yeah, it had to pay a lot of money to share it with us.

Share in areas.

It's good inside.

It's an amazing encyclopedia of knowledge

up in that big old brain of yours.

I don't know about that.

There's information up to a certain point

and I've talked about this before.

There's information going up to around about 1992

and then it's very scarce from 92 on.

Before 92, I seem to have remembered everything

that anybody ever said to me.

So, the way we normally do things is canvass

our guests' friends and family to get some good oil

on some inside lines.

But it's a little bit different with you

and we got some good stuff,

but a lot of the feedback came back saying

his whole life is basically out there.

He just, he talks about it every morning.

Like, what do you want?

He's told all of his stories.

And I think that's actually probably

a pretty good place to start

is you're burning the candle at both ends.

You got the breakfast radio in the morning

and seven sharp at night.

And coming into this, we were a little bit

intimidated because I was such a busy guy.

How's he gonna find time for us?

But how busy is life for you?

Not that busy.

I mean, you do two things.

So, I've got to be at radio in the morning

and that's every morning.

And a big part of radio is turning up.

In fact, most of radio is really turning up

and just being there.

And if you're there, then it's all good.

And if you're in the studio,

just listening to what people are saying.

That's a great job.

Then after that, that probably finishes.

You have a bit of a meeting.

You talk about things.

You do whatever you're gonna do.

And then I probably get home at 10.30,

something like that, 11.

Then I like to do some exercise.

Maybe go for a run.

Maybe on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

That's what I do.

Actually, it's very structured.

And then I have lunch at home.

And then round about two-ish,

just after two normally, I head into TVNZ.

And I'm lucky because I live reasonably close.

And both TVNZ and NZME,

which is where I do Radio Hariki,

are very close to each other.

In fact, they're just across the road.

And so if I want to go between the two,

it's nice and easy.

So my life is really kind of contained

to quite a small area.

And then I'm there until obviously Seven Sharp's at seven.

And then I get home normally around about,

I don't know, eight o'clock, something like that.

And that's me.

That's me every day.

And you've been doing Seven Sharp four years now, I think it is?

This is our sixth year.

Sixth year.

Since 2018.

Does it feel manageable, this workload of doing it?

Yeah, weirdly enough, when I first started doing it,

I thought, oh, this is going to be intense.

And then I think like anything, you start doing it.

And then after a while, it's like kind of a fitness.

You sort of, you become more fit at it.

And it gets easier.

Also, I reckon broadcasting has a rhythm.

And I just lost my rhythm there.

But broadcasting has a rhythm.

And once you get the rhythm of it,

and you, then it kind of takes on its own thing.

And I think with Seven Sharp, when I first started,

and I remember the first Seven Sharp that I did,

I was absolutely terrified, because it's live.

And you come off the back of the news.

And there was a lot of expectation around what it was going to be

and all that sort of stuff.

And there were articles in the paper.

And Hillary and I were new.

We didn't really know each other very well.

And then you start off on that.

And they cue you in your ear.

I could feel my heart beating through my chest.

And with a lapel microphone that sits down on your chest,

I was absolutely sure that that microphone

could pick up my heart beating through my chest,

because I was so nervous.

And you're reading on AutoQ, but it's live.

You don't want to make a mistake.

The main thing is you want to get through that first show

and just not make a mistake.

And so that's quite freaky.

Is the nerves about the ad-libbing parts?

Or is it the AutoQ?

Or is it just the whole experience?

The nerves is just the idea that a lot of people are watching.

And I think you put the nerves on yourself,

because you just have a level of expectation.

You want to do well.

You want to not make mistakes.

It's really about not making mistakes, I think.

Because the ad-libbing part of it is just talking.

That's fine.

But when it comes to reading an AutoQ,

that was not something that I had never really read

in AutoQ before.

So that was quite a new area for me.

I'd done it a little bit on eating media lunch,

was reading in AutoQ in the studio.

But we'd do, I don't know, 12 episodes,

10 episodes a year of that.

And so we don't only read the AutoQ 10 times a year

for like two hours on a Sunday or something.

So, it is definitely a craft.

Reading an AutoQ is,

and a lot of people go ask reading an AutoQ, reading that.

It's actually harder than what people think.

I think, and it takes time.

And when you're learning live in front of half a million people,

it's quite a brutal place to learn.

And that's the thing,

is that there was no rehearsal for Seven Shaps.

It's not like we did a,

we quickly went over what we were going to do.

You don't rehearse in using current affairs at TVNZ.

You just do, and you do it live.

And also, but I was lucky,

because I was sitting beside Hilary,

and she is like the best presenter,

I think, the best presenter in New Zealand.

And so I was lucky that she gave me incredible confidence

that she was just sitting there.

And I kind of just watched her,

and over the years I've just watched the way

that she does things, and she's a particularly good reader.

And also, she can go, and this is a rare thing in New Zealand,

when you go Auto-Q, and you can Adlib,

and you would never know whether someone's reading Auto-Q

or they're Adlibbing.

Now, that's a great skill.

That's actually quite hard,

because the two parts of your brain are completely different.

You're reading words,

and you have to read them accurately,

or you are thinking creatively out of your own brain,

totally different.

So you're going between two brains, which is challenging.

Tell me, is the Seven Sharp set,

like right next to the news set,

so did they just literally spin the cameras around?

Yes, it was.

In those days it was.

Now it's in a different place.

Now it's moved down to Studio 1A,

which is actually the first ever Havoc studio

that we had in MTV.

It's the same studio.

We're facing the same way.

Still a Soda Stream in the corner.

You know, what it probably is,

it's probably in the room next door.

I wouldn't be surprised,

because next door they do all the Foley

for Shortland Street,

and they do all the sound effects

that they put in afterwards.

And there's a whole lot of stuff in there

that's like, this is very familiar to me,

all this stuff from like 25 years ago.

But yeah, it's quite weird.

So we're now in the same studio.

Obviously a different set,

but yeah, we moved at certain times.

We moved because of COVID originally,

because we couldn't have Simon and Wendy

and Hillary and I in the same bubble.

We couldn't do that,

because if they lost presenters at that time,

there was nobody else to cover,

and it was quite problematic.

So things went weird during COVID,

and then we ended up upstairs,

and we didn't have a set,

and now we've got a new set,

which is somewhere slightly different.

But in those days it was opposite each other, yeah.

We kind of glossed over the number you said before.

I think I had a figure of 471,000 New Zealanders

every night, tuning in to Seven Sharp, roughly.

When you first took the job,

I'm interested in that process of how you got the job,

and then did your audition,

did your screen test,

but also thinking about that many people watching you.

Is that different to breakfast radio?

Yeah, I don't tend to think much about the audience.

I think that first time I definitely was thinking

about the amount of people watching,

and over time you forget,

and then you're just in a set with someone,

or you're in a studio with your friends,

you know, that's kind of how it is.

You don't think about it so much.

I think if you generally think about 470,000 people,

and then watching, it can be quite confusing,

because the other thing is 470,000 people.

If you saw them in a stadium or something,

that would be a lot of people.

It could be a lot of people.

And all those people have lives.

All those people have their own things that they're into.

They have cares, and they have worries,

and they have loves,

and they have torment,

and they have all sorts of stuff, tastes.

And if you start to try and think,

how do I make these people happy?

How do I 470,000?

You can't.

It's such a hard thing to get your head around.

So I think, I try not to think about any of that,

and I never kind of have.

I think the main thing is if you're with someone,

I'm sitting beside Hillary,

she's a friend of mine,

I'm thinking if you make Hillary laugh,

then generally you'd hope be entertaining

for some of the people who are watching.

If the majority of people are okay,

if they don't hate you, then you're okay.

And radio is different.

I think radio is a different thing in TV.

The two mediums are so far apart.

Skills that you use,

the type of part of your brain that you go to,

the rhythm of it.

All of those things are so different.

The idea that you could be on radio,

and then just go and be on TV.

Yeah, I don't know.

To me, they're different things.

Back to getting the gig, seven sharp.

Does someone call your agent or say,

hey, we want Jerry to come in

and do a reading for seven sharp?

Or how does that actually come about?

Well, it was just before...

No, when was it?

I think it was before...

Oh, now I don't.

I can't really remember exactly how it came about.

I remember John Gillespie,

who was the head of news and current affairs,

called me up and said, do you want to have a chat?

And this must have been just before Christmas,

I think, in 2017.

And I said, yeah.

And so we had to go to a secret location

away from TVNZ.

And he said, you may know,

but Mike and Tony, who did seven sharp,

are leaving.

And Hillary's going to be doing seven sharp.

And we were wondering if you'd be interested

in doing seven sharp.

Is it something that you'd be interested in?

And I said, yeah,

it's something that I'm interested in.

And then he said, okay, cool.

Well, we'll keep in touch.

And then we finished that conversation.

And then it must have been a week or so later

or something like that.

And then he came back and said,

can we sit down and talk about doing this more seriously?

I said, sure.

And then sort of started like that.

But I don't have an agent.

So I just sort of chatted to him myself.

At the time, you were very well known

for your incredible Mike Kosking impersonation,

which was so dialed in and so accurate.

You almost couldn't tell him apart.

When you're in that meeting and they've called you in

and they say, no, do you want to replace Mike?

Is there a moment where you're thinking,

hang on, this is a bit odd?

100%.

I thought, strangest thing in the world.

And look, it was at the time,

I think probably to a lot of people,

they'd be like, why the hell would you want that guy

hosting the show?

I mean, I remember accidentally reading a couple of things

and I was like, oh, that was definitely the sentiment.

And I understand the sentiment.

I can understand where it came from.

But yeah, going from doing Mike Kosking impersonations

and then later on when I got the job,

driving into Mike Kosking.

So I drove into his car park.

So I took over his car park.

I took over his computer.

I took over his desk.

This is the weirdest thing.

I took over his locker in the TVNZ changing room

and it still had his name on it.

So they hadn't printed my name at the stage.

And so I had Mike Kosking's locker doing his old job,

definitely not driving his car or his type of car.

But inside his locker, this is quite good,

inside his locker was a Kenny Rogers album,

like on vinyl.

Right.

And a Bible.

Well, the two things that he had left,

nothing else.

Everything else had been cleaned out.

No clothes, nothing else.

But there was a Kenny Rogers album.

Isn't that weird?

Yeah.

I don't even know.

Is that on brand?

I don't know.

I know.

Well, that's maybe why he left it.

Did you want it?

On the way up, did you harbour ambitions

of kind of doing genuine kind of current affairs in news?

Because we'll touch on it.

But that eating media lunch persona lent into that.

And then you were doing it.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, we'd have to call Seven Sharp genuine

current affairs in news,

which I wouldn't call it firstly.

It's more like infotainment Seven Sharp.

But no, I didn't like, you know what?

I've never thought that I was going to be anything.

And I've never been ambitious.

And I've never had ideas that this is something that I want to do.

Or if I do this and this and this,

it's going to lead to this or anything like that.

I've just kind of never been like that.

The first job that I ever did in TV on The Havoc Show,

I didn't know that that was going to happen.

All of a sudden, that just sort of happened.

And I was in that position.

And then as a result,

something else led on to something else.

And I found myself in that position.

And then it's been a just making decisions of yes or no

when you get offered things over the years.

And then you end up at the place that you end up.

But I've never thought,

I've never been very calculated in that way.

And maybe that's just how I am.

Or maybe I'm just too stupid to be calculated.

I'm not sure.

But I've just kind of ended up at this point.

It's quite accidental.

We'll be right back after this short break.

One of the most fascinating parts for me of your success

is how you are the same person,

but you're nailing both audiences.

Because the audience that the chat you have with Matt

in the morning on Radio Hodaki

is very different to the persona you put forward for Seven Sharp.

But it's the still based Jeremy

and you just kind of tailor it, right?

Like, what's breakfast radio?

What's the difference for you?

Well, breakfast radio is a lot of stories

about you've got to bring a lot of your own life.

And you've got to bring bits of yourself.

Because essentially nobody can see anything.

So all they're hearing is what's coming out of your brain.

So it's brain, to mouth, to microphone, to ear,

wherever someone's listening,

which is quite a pure kind of a process.

So you are creating everything that comes out of your brain

and someone else's brain and whatever is created from you too

goes into people's ears.

Television is about pictures.

It's not about words.

The words accompany the pictures,

but it's mainly a visual thing.

And you're stimulated by what you see.

And took me ages to work this out.

But I mean, Country Calendar is a great example.

Absolutely beautiful pictures.

And what draws people to Country Calendar?

You know, why is Country Calendar

one of the most popular shows in New Zealand

and has been for the last, well, 50 years?

It's pictures. The pictures are just stunning.

I mean, yeah, okay, the stories are interesting.

But essentially it's the same rural story,

isn't it?

It's never like at the end of the story,

they say, oh, and such and such,

something terrible's happened to them.

It's like always just a,

it's a rural story of people who take on a challenge

and then they go through the tribulations of that challenge

and then they end up at the end of the challenge.

I mean, they've often not succeeded hugely or failed

or it's just they've gone through, it's mainly pictures.

And so with TV, it's weird, it's what you see.

And on something like Seven Sharp,

most of Seven Sharp is stories, obviously.

And then Hillary and I introducing the stories

and a little bit of chemistry from Hillary and I.

But I'm not revealing much of myself on that show.

And so you can hide on television.

Whereas on radio, I don't think you can hide in the same way.

Radio, you can hear.

So much more than what you can see.

And someone's personally, if you know what I mean.

With the way that you respond,

the time that it takes you to respond to something

reveals so much more about yourself.

Whereas with TV, it's just, it's a visual part of it.

Really, it's almost like it's a fog over people

in terms of getting right through to someone.

Yet despite that, for people like me

that do book in their days with you,

you're still able to sneak in some really nice Easter eggs

into Seven Sharp.

Like, yeah, I believe he does take cash.

If possible, cash.

It was incredible last week.

It really was.

Is everybody in on that?

No, nobody's in on that.

I mean, our executive producer would know,

he knows what's going on,

because he listens to the radio.

And that target demo of me.

Yeah.

But what you're talking about is radio, a Hodeckey.

There's like a gag in Radio Hodeckey, right?

Let's try to slip some phrases into Seven Sharp.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, it stemmed from years ago

from the Scotty J. Stevenson Word Sneak,

where we'd give Scotty J. Stevenson

on Radio Hodeckey on Friday mornings

a word to try and sneak into a commentary,

because he was commentating Rugby at the time.

And that man was amazing.

Yeah, he was.

And it was, and because he would do it in a,

I mean, I'm just sort of plopping it into a place

just before the last part of our show,

where we come out of an airbreak and there's just a gap.

So we can always put in anything in there.

But he was genuinely,

I mean, one day we gave him number three bag,

you know, as a euphemism for a condom.

And he got it in there by this guy,

Arthur Morley scored a try,

and he said, and Arthur Morley,

and he goes, and the number three bags a try,

because he was a prop.

And I was like that, he did that on the fly.

He was commentating.

Like it was super impressive.

So anyway, it stemmed from that.

And then if we thought,

oh, if we can shoehorn some words,

and then, you know, that'll make a segment.

There's one really viral clip.

And I think you're talking about like extreme Frisbee

or something, you're like,

and let's go see him toss off in the park or something.

And then Hillary's giving you the little side eye,

and it's just like a little glance at Jeremy.

But there's other ones where it seems she's in on it.

And there was one, you were talking about a cat,

there's a segment about a cat,

and it was like pussy problem,

and pussy doesn't pussy there.

And then she's like a RIP pussy, I guess.

Yeah.

No, well, those ones are more,

I think I got those, some of them I've got in during,

during intros and stuff like the,

we sent Reese Matthews in to toss off

in the Queenstown Gardens.

That one was, it seemed obvious,

but otherwise it's quite hard off into shoehorn in,

but some to the intro.

And the other thing is that I might write something in

and then Hillary will read it and she'll sub it.

And she'll go, why the hell would you say that word in there?

And then she'll change it,

so it actually makes more sense.

And so that'll be the end of that one.

It's like, well, we've just got to say it at a different time.

But you do talk about that chemistry

between you and Hillary,

and it's incredible watching and viewing.

But as you said earlier,

you guys didn't know each other

really before you started the show.

So that's built organically over time?

Yeah, it has.

And she, I love Hillary,

and she's a wonderful person to work with.

I feel very lucky.

I'm lucky to work with both the people,

well, the main people that I work with in my life.

And you have partnerships at certain times as a broadcaster.

And it's an interesting area, chemistry, partnerships,

because most of the time people are thrown together

and they're not often even asked whether or not

they should be thrown together.

In Hillary's situation,

I think she was the first person that they wanted for that job.

And then I think,

you'd have to ask her,

but I'm pretty sure she then suggested some people

who she wouldn't mind working with.

And I think I was one of those people.

I think that's the way it worked.

I'm not sure exactly.

But so she did have a say.

And I'm always surprised when I hear about presenters

who are thrust into situations with other people

who they don't know

and they don't even have a say on who that's going to be.

Because ultimately, as you guys know,

doing a podcast, chemistry is pretty much everything.

And what is chemistry?

It's a magic.

It is this magic thing that happens.

And you know when it happens.

And it's actually, if you're totally honest about it,

it is the reason why you broadcast.

The magic is what you're looking for all the time.

And if you are open to the magic happening,

then these moments happen.

And it feels so good when it happens.

And you know when it's not happening,

you're quite aware of it.

And I reckon you get better over time

of spotting when it occurs and when it doesn't.

Yeah, I think, just before we move on,

talk about Matt Heath in this regard.

Because you guys have such great chemistries.

The perfect foil.

You guys are in such a routine now.

You've been doing it for so long.

But is he just the best to throw something to?

Because you know he's just going to pick it up and run with it.

Hey, seriously, Steve,

it's impressive that you know that.

That's exactly what the kind of person that he is.

I always know, if I'm going to say something,

he will come in with something.

He has something every single time.

And that is such a great gift

to work with someone like that.

I can't imagine now,

because Matt and I have been doing this over 10 years,

I can't imagine throwing something at someone

and they just come back with nothing.

That's absolutely terrifying.

Because you just...

It was shade before, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Oh, I think I sprained with Suzanne Paul.

Suzanne Paul, baby.

No, you scrambled well there, Chemist.

You did well.

But yeah, that is a great gift

to work with someone like that.

And he is 100% like that.

Because there's a lot going on in that brain of his.

Like at all times.

He can look at something very quickly

and he can go down three angles.

He's like in his brain,

each time you say something,

there are three options for him to take.

And it's interesting,

you never quite know which one he's going to take.

I don't know.

But I know that there are always options.

With some people, you might throw to...

I don't really...

I haven't worked with people like this for a long time, luckily.

But you would throw someone,

they just look at you blankly

and it's like, okay, well, I'm going to pick it up again

and let me go again.

Yeah.

And that's quite a difficult thing to do.

Yeah, his appeal seems to be

he's genuinely interested in everything.

Or got an opinion on everything.

Or a reference to everything.

Yeah, well, he...

Look, and this is no secret.

He's super smart.

As far as a professor,

his mother was incredibly intelligent

and he's gifted with a

large brain,

capable of storing huge amounts of information.

He's got a lot of information in there.

And he just, you know, digests,

podcasts and reads stuff.

Like, he just loves it.

And he gets in on something

and then he just goes deep.

He needs to know.

If he's going to be interested in something,

he needs to know exactly how it started,

why it's that he's not interested

in just kind of generally knowing about it.

He needs to know more about it.

He has to.

Otherwise, he feels like he's not...

Either he knows everything about it

or he knows nothing about it.

That's kind of...

He's a...

He's a pretty extreme dude.

Was...

Was that an arranged or an arranged relationship

to get you on to Hodaaki together?

It was, actually.

But it was something that we...

So I knew him.

I had known him for quite a long time.

I knew him in the 90s, late 90s.

And he had come to Radio Hodaaki

off an amazing piece of luck.

And luck.

How interesting is luck?

Luck is everything.

I mean, that's why we are here.

It's why we exist.

All of us three people.

And then the fact that we're now in this moment.

Crazy pieces of luck to lead to that moment.

But luck for him was Ian Stables.

And you've probably heard the story.

He's my neighbour in Hamilton.

Oh, really?

Well, he was meant to be the drive show Hodaaki

and he was also ready to go.

And then he had an unfortunate altercation

with someone at an airport.

And never quite made it

to the first show.

I mean, I think this was the Sunday

before the first show on the Monday.

Classic Stables.

And so that was the end of that.

So there was a very rushed call

that was put through to Matt

and said, look, would you mind doing a drive show?

And Matt was like, really?

Okay, so he started working at Radio Hodaaki.

And then over time, just all of his friends

started working at Radio Hodaaki.

And I was one of those people.

I must have come maybe a year after him

or something, started doing a sad day show

with Dr. Steve Simpson.

Of the Auckland University Physics Department.

And yeah, so then

when Martin Devlin stopped doing

the Radio Hodaaki Breakfast

with Laura McGaldrick there,

where they thought, oh, maybe Matt and Jeremy could do it.

And so we went through strange kind of

go along to a recording studio

and record a couple of breaks

and we talked about it and stuff like that.

And then they thought, oh, yeah, this is okay.

And so we started doing the brief show.

Amazing sliding doors moment.

Ne, we're stable.

Didn't know about that.

Yeah. Oh, it's the talk about luck.

Yeah. I mean, seriously.

If he hadn't have done that,

whatever he did at that airport,

God knows what the hell that man was up to.

But whatever, if he hadn't have done that,

then there's no doubt

we never would have done the show together.

We'll be right back after this short break.

We have had the fortune

of having a lot of successful people

at the top of their field on the pod

over the last few years.

A lot of them talk about

sacrifice or opportunity cost

that comes along with it.

And working breakfast

and working at seven o'clock

means you don't get those important times

with your family.

And I've heard you talk about this.

So you opened talking a little bit about

how difficult it was to factor that

into the whole scene.

Sure, sure.

Yeah, there's definitely an opportunity cost

to not being at breakfast

with your children,

you know, for 10 years.

And then added on to that seven sharp

and then not being there for dinner.

But those are two quite important bits.

And then obviously lunch.

Well, I am at home.

When luckily Tulsi's at home with me

for a lot of the time.

So we get to spend a bit of time together,

which is quite nice in the middle of the day.

But in terms of the kids,

no definitely there's an opportunity,

a massive opportunity cost there.

But I was doing breakfast radio

when the kids were,

in fact, I've been doing breakfast radio

pretty much since Mishka, my daughter,

she's now 13.

So since she was two or three.

So she doesn't.

And neither of my kids remember me

ever being around during the,

you know, I didn't see when they first went to school

and all of that sort of stuff.

And I think you can get,

if I really thought about it.

And there are moments when their behaviour is not great

and I immediately blame myself

and think when I wasn't there or something like this.

There is definitely an opportunity cost.

I'm not sure what that is.

It's time spent at meal times as a family.

And I think you create a lot of culture

during those times.

And you set up things.

I mean, my children, as a result,

my children's table manners are just disgusting.

I'm always talking to my partners like, oh man,

you know, because we always have dinner together

on a Sunday night.

And oftentimes lunches in the weekend too.

And just look at them.

They can't even put their knife and fork together.

So I was brought up in a family where table manners were

basically about 75% of my upbringing

was focused on table manners.

And then my children, it's,

and then if I then go out with my parents,

I can see my dad looking across thinking,

what have you done to these children?

They're disgusting, disgusting beings.

The knife and fork situations are lost art to a lot of people.

I think two thirds of this conversation

are very in tune with putting your knife and fork together

when you finish a meal.

And there's an outlier sitting amongst us

that doesn't do that.

Really? Really?

Wow, Shay, we've spoken about this.

Just an observation.

Just an observation.

Just an observation.

How do you?

You don't put your knife and fork together.

How does anyone know you've finished?

Well, I don't know.

I don't know if that's accurate.

Is that an old observation?

I don't know, you've changed.

Your father of four now.

Maybe you've tidied your act up.

But I definitely recall physically doing it for you.

But this isn't the right platform to air my dirty laundry.

Yeah.

Well, in my family growing up in the 80s,

there was such a focus on table manners.

I mean, my dad would just,

he would sit at the other end of the table

because I was the youngest.

So it went, you know, my dad at the end,

I was at the other end and it was against a wall, this table.

So then my mum and my brother

were sort of facing towards the wall

on the long part of the table.

And as a result, my dad just was focused on me

the whole time down at the end.

And he was so focused on me as he was at a point where,

you know, with soup spoons,

he was a scoop, your soup backwards guy.

Yeah, you got to tilt the plate away.

And you always go away from yourself.

You never like, so we were like five year old.

Breaking bars, you never cut your barn and like,

oh man, the manners.

With the hectic Monday to Friday we've spoken about,

and I'll move on soon.

But when you're there with the weekend

and you're there with your family,

do you feel an extra sense of pressure or self expectation

to be really present?

Like, do you detach from everything

and go about your life that way?

Well, I don't do much in the weekend.

So I don't go out partying with my friends

or like go and do things for myself

or play multiple rounds of golf or anything like that.

But I'm generally at home.

But my kids now are not at home, so they're out.

But I don't want to put pressure on my kids

to say like, you must hang out with me

because I feel guilty about the amount of time

that I spend with you during the week.

Because I think that would be unfair.

But I think if you're present and you're around,

what do you do in your parent?

You kind of look at your own childhood, don't you?

And you think, okay, what worked, what didn't work?

Where can I make changes here?

And some people probably overcompensate in some areas

and they probably go too far.

I remember my dad, see, my dad worked long hours,

similar hours to me actually, except he wasn't at home

in the middle of the day.

And he traveled a lot, he was overseas a lot.

A lot of the time, my mum would just be,

my mum would be looking after us kids

and she was very capable.

When he was in the weekend, he was around a lot.

But on those days, I don't think people

had much to do.

But he was at home a lot.

And so I kind of remember, I remember that.

But he was not the kind of dad

who was playing with me all the time.

And I've never been the kind of dad

who's out there constantly playing with their kids.

If my daughter or my son say to me,

do you want to go and do something?

I'm like, yep, I'm into it.

But I'm not kind of there forcing the issue.

I don't know whether that's,

I think sometimes you're doing that for you

and I think as a parent sometimes you've got to think

about what you're doing for you

and what you're doing for your children.

And your children's life,

and this is a great thing that I think

when you realise this as a parent,

it really sets you free.

Your children's lives aren't yours.

And yes, you do have a massive influence

of your children, of course.

You brought them into the world,

you bring them up, you do your best.

But they only spend about 18 to 20 years with you.

The rest of their life is spent by themselves.

So really what you're doing

is you're really equipping them to be by themselves.

And to make sure that they're going to be happy

and they're going to be able to sustain themselves

in their lives.

And it's not about you.

And you, as a kid,

never love your parents as much as your parents love you.

I think growing up you think, yeah, I love my parents,

but then you don't realise until you have your own kids.

It's like, no, no, you love your children so much more

than you love your parents.

And that's evolution.

That has to be that way.

So, yeah, I kind of hope that I...

How did I get onto this?

I kind of hope that I want to...

I want, you know, Tulsi and I, we both agree on this.

We want our children to be free to do what they want to do.

And I don't want them to think I'm doing something to be kind

to my dad or good to my dad or anything like that.

I'm like, don't worry about me, I'll be okay.

You guys go out and do what you want to do.

It's for you.

I'm keen to talk about your parents.

You sort of mentioned your dad, Sir John Wells,

helped set up what we know as Sport New Zealand and Merchant Banker.

And your mum, Lady Cheryl Wells, Silver Ferns Manager for years.

Your brother is a commercial lawyer.

There's obviously, and with the career...

And you've done some stuff.

And you've done some stuff.

You've done some stuff.

But I guess the question is, is there anything looking back

that you can see Foundation bricks that laid the path to the success?

Why were they such successful people?

And what did you pick up from that?

It's weird, I never looked at my parents and thought

that they were successful people.

They were just my parents.

And now I look back and I think, yeah, they were successful

in their own fields.

My mum was involved in Netball.

And she's managed the New Zealand Netball team for a long time.

And that kind of came later.

That came in when I was sort of 15, 13, 14, something like that.

But she was always involved in Netball.

My dad was not really involved in Sport.

He kind of just worked when I was growing up.

But that's the thing with our family.

We're all kind of my brothers things and my brothers things.

I mean, I don't know.

I was kind of doing my own thing.

We all are quite different.

We're similar, but we're all involved in different areas.

And I'm happy about that.

I wouldn't ever want to go into my father's business

that he ran as a merchant bank.

And I didn't even know what a merchant bank was.

And then I remember, sort of in my 20s,

I remember saying to my dad, something around friends

whose kids went into their family business or whatever.

And I said, it was never an option for me.

And then he said, why wasn't that an option for you?

And I said, well, I think you didn't ever want me

to go into the family business.

He goes, I would have loved you to go into the family business.

But really?

Firstly, you never even explained what you did.

Secondly, I didn't even think that that was,

and he said, oh, you could have been quite good at doing that.

And I thought, I'd never even think that that was ever an option.

So, yeah, I think the family that grew up was just the,

whatever is your family, it's just your norm.

And that was just kind of my norm.

I think now I look back and my brother's

done very well for himself and the legal world.

And yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, we've all just kind of gone our own ways.

Was, is there anything that works for us?

Is there anything that are bringing that home,

the incredible sense of humour that you do have?

Like anything in and around the home,

or did you just kind of pick that up on your journey as you went?

I don't know, and I don't consider myself

that I have a great sense of humour.

But I think the bits that probably shaped me into being what I am,

was having, I mean, I went to like a reasonably conservative strict school from five,

which had quite strong rules around it.

So you become quite good at finding the ridiculous,

and a lot of it was ridiculous.

A lot of it, for example, Assembly at,

I went to St. Kent's Prep School in Remueira,

and Assembly was, there was a teacher called Mr. Perry,

and he must have been in the Army or something, I don't know.

He was this old guy, he's the deputy principal,

and the teacher of the Form 2, the top Form 2 class.

And he used to stand, and he would go,

Skull, at the beginning of the Assembly, so you'd all be standing there,

and he'd go, Skull, where do I already be standing?

He'd go, Skull, Attention, and we'd have to stand up.

So you'd have to, you'd stand with your feet out of part,

everybody would be doing this, so you'd be five, I was five.

He'd go, Skull, and then that was, get ready.

And then he'd go, Attention,

and at that point you'd bring your right foot in towards your left foot,

and then at that point the Headmaster would walk in to the Assembly,

and you'd have to stand there straight, and then he'd go, At ease.

And then you'd be able to put your foot back to a wider staff.

And then the Headmaster, Mr. Irwin, would then say the Skull Prayer,

and then you'd be allowed to sit down.

Well, that is ridiculous.

I didn't know it at the time, I just thought that was just how it was,

but there was a lot of weird stuff that was going on.

It was a strap.

My people were strapped, and I don't know.

So I think probably, but it was weird,

but it was also quite staunch, that culture,

so it took quite a lot to push yourself up against it,

and you knew that you couldn't break it,

because the structures around you were quite solid,

but you definitely poked them,

and it was a funny thing to be a part of, definitely.

Moving through the Skull Years,

and I've heard you talk about this a bit,

so give it as much or as little detail as you want.

But grew up in Auckland,

and parents found marijuana in your room at 14.

You got sent to Whanganui College,

where you were expelled there for weed.

And I've heard you describe it as the lowest point in your life.

Yeah, give it as much or as little as you want,

and perhaps what you learned from that period.

Well, yeah, so it was a crazy time,

and looking back on it,

I feel like I was a different person,

but I'm obviously the same person.

But yeah, I was at school here in Auckland,

I must have been at the end of year 11.

What's that for form?

For form.

And it was a Skull Holidays,

and I was experimenting at the time with marijuana,

as it seemed that most people and people I knew anyway of my age were.

And my parents were reasonably conservative,

and also they were very staunchly anti-drugs.

And look, not anti-alcohol to a point,

but certainly anti-getting wasted.

Like they always had alcohol on the house,

and they always drank, very moderately.

They're very moderate people.

They're not extreme people.

And so I think they were,

my mother particularly would have been disappointed to think

that I was interested in chasing some kind of experience through,

you know.

Devil's lettuce.

Yeah, through drugs.

Because she doesn't really understand why you'd want to do that.

To her, that makes no sense.

Why would you want to lose control,

or why would you want to feel different?

Whereas I thought, well, that's actually quite interesting.

So anyway, they found some drugs in my room over the holidays,

and then immediately within about,

it felt like two or three days.

It was coming towards the end of the holidays.

I was at Wanganui Colleges, I was in the Headmasters office,

and I was, you know, doing an interview to go to school down there.

Because I think my parents thought,

the problem is Auckland obviously,

there's drugs in this big city.

Send them to Wanganui.

There'll be no marijuana down there.

That was quite a prestigious school back then, wasn't it?

Wanganui Colleges.

Yeah, it's like a very traditional school.

Yeah, it's very old.

I think it was set up in the 1860s or something.

And it was based very much around an English public school.

And so anyway, I went down there for a year.

That was all good.

And I enjoyed it.

I made good friends, went to boarding school.

It seems odd, but I sort of just took it on my stride at the time.

I said, oh yeah, okay, this is what's happening.

I'm going to try and make the best of this situation.

It's not really where I wanted to go,

but I thought, well, what choice do I have?

So I was down there, and then at the end of the year,

you get to choose a week of experience at the end.

And once you've done all your exams and all that sort of stuff

in sixth form, there's this period of time in those days

where you had nothing to do.

Do you remember that?

Yeah, I do remember that.

And I didn't have anything.

And I did Kung Fu at school with Mr. Pinkerton.

It's a real Hamilton Boys reference out there,

which will get a lull for people.

Well, I do remember that really vividly.

Yeah, because you finished in November or something.

It was weird.

And there was just this period of purgatory,

where nothing good came with that period.

What a 16-year-old is going to do

when they've got nothing to do or something bad.

So anyway, at school, instead of sending you home,

they sent you away at boarding school

to a community experience week.

And you could choose different things.

My choices were, I remember an old person's,

a retirement village, and you stay there for a week.

On site?

Yeah, you stay at a motel.

Oh, I think, and that one was in Whanganui.

So I think we stayed at school

and they drive you with the school bus there.

There was Lake Alice was a,

in those days they were called mental hospitals.

They're not, obviously they don't even exist anymore,

but that was what they were called in those days.

Like a institution, a psychiatric ward, yeah.

And then another option, there were other options.

And then another option was the NSAD

Drug Treatment Centre in Martin,

which, I thought to myself, well,

of all the options here, I can kind of,

this is kind of interesting to me.

I thought this is, this will be interesting,

whereas the other, I'd heard terrible stories

about what having at Lake Alice

and I didn't really want to be dealing with old people.

So there I was.

And then before I went along there,

we were staying in a motel

because it was in Martin

and the school was in Whanganui.

And I was like, yes, finally teachers are not looking.

You know, we can do whatever we want.

And I knew that we were working during the day

and then you'd cook your own meals at night

and then just hang out in the motel at night.

And I was like, no teacher with us, all good.

So I thought, now's a good time too.

And I'd spent the whole year,

I hadn't smoked pot all year, I'd been good.

Cause I'd sort of promised my parents that I'd try my hardest.

And it'd been a good year.

And then, so I thought,

I'll treat myself here, finish my exams.

And I won't get in any trouble for this.

So then anyway, I got a cap of hash oil or cannabis oil.

And then went away there

and then worked away for a few days

and met a whole lot of good people.

It was really interesting.

I was enjoying it actually.

And then having interesting conversations with people.

And then I wasn't,

I hadn't smoked any of the cannabis oil at the stage.

I was sort of waiting for an opportunity at night

and it hadn't presented itself.

And then one of the patients there came up to me

just before I was going to leave

or probably on the third day and said,

I heard you've got some drugs and I said no.

And then they said, well,

that's not what one of the other guys who was here said.

And I said, okay, well, that's not true.

And then sort of described what I had

and where it was and all sorts of things.

And at that point I was like, oh, this is not good.

I found myself in a kind of a difficult situation.

And he was reasonably coercive.

And I didn't have the skills to negotiate my way through it

as well as I would have liked.

And in the end I ended up giving it to him.

And not, which is a terrible idea.

And sounds, I mean,

that sounds like the worst thing in the world.

But I didn't, I didn't want any money for it.

It wasn't, in the end, I actually threw it on the ground

and I said, if you want to pick it up, that's all good.

Because I felt like I didn't really have an option.

And then, and he did, he just picked it up.

And then he had it.

I think he swallowed it, I assume,

because the next day when I came in,

it was, so I went home that night thinking,

that was a mistake.

This is gonna be, this is bad.

This is bad, this is bad.

Because you were 16, 17.

Yeah, I was 16.

End of sixth form.

And I knew that what I'd done was wrong.

But I just felt like I didn't really have any other option,

even though I did have an option.

I mean, the thing is, I, he also was saying,

you know, I'm gonna tell the people anyway, you know,

and I was like, I'm fucked here.

So he then swallowed it, then came back the next day

and people just shaking their heads.

And I knew exactly what was gonna happen.

And I saw him and he was like, he was, he was really stoned.

You know, it was what he was, he just had red eyes.

And a stoned person at a sober.

Yeah, really upset.

Rehab facility.

Boy, did they stand out.

And, and I, and then we had the family meeting

and then they stood up and they made me stand up.

And then they said, you know, Jeremy, you know, what have you done?

And I said, I told them what had happened.

And, and then just, you know,

one by one people just stood up and just laid into me.

I remember just standing there in tears.

It was pretty brutal.

And, but fair enough, you know, I, I take, you know,

I was like, well, this is fair enough.

And then, and then the guy called me into the main office

and said, you know, who was in charge of the facility

and said, you know, this is obviously not an ideal situation.

I said, no, I know.

And he said, I've got to tell the school.

I said, yeah, I understand that.

And then they, and they said, don't worry, I'll talk to the school.

And I'm sure they'll understand these, these Drogatics.

Because this person, everyone was called an addict,

even though this guy probably was just trying to get off a lighter sentence

because he said, said that he was a Drogat.

I assume, you know, and you go to a rehab facility

for six months and you get a lighter sentence.

But, but everyone was considered an addict,

even if they smoked marijuana in those days.

So he was like, these addicts can be very persuasive

and all that sort of stuff.

So the deputy headmaster came and picked me up

and then drove me back.

They put me in solitary confinement at the school

and they went through my study and looking for drugs

and all sorts of stuff.

And I really, I was, I was being treated

like I sort of deserved to be really,

which is essentially a criminal.

And marijuana at that stage was illegal.

And I think even cannabis or maybe even like Class B

or something, who knows.

And, and then my parents came down

because they were, you know, I was going to be expelled.

So they came down and then I remember walking

into the headmaster's office.

There's my parents, there's a headmaster.

Very traditional old room.

My parents just, I've never seen such, you know, disappointment.

And, and then, you know, I got expelled.

And then my parents then had said to me before I left,

you read, this is your last chance.

Because before they'd sent me down to Wanganui,

we'd been having some problems.

And then they said, this is your last chance.

And, you know, if this, if you mark this one up,

that's it.

You're not part of this family anymore.

And I was like, okay.

But I thought, you know, I won't make it up.

I'll be okay.

And so at that point, you know, when we, when we then,

when we walked out of the headmaster's office,

my parents were like, oh, we told you what we told you.

And see you later.

And they just drove off.

And so I was just left in Wanganui by myself,

standing outside the headmaster's office.

They've gone.

And, and then I go back to the sanatorium

where I've been staying, which is like the hospital thing.

Solitary confinement.

I was getting my meals bought to me, like a prisoner.

And then that night I got put on the northern train

back to Auckland and ended up going and staying with a,

a friend of mine for a few months.

And so that was it for me.

That was a, that was my expulsion.

And, and, you know, my parents practiced saying,

I guess what they thought was tough love back in those days.

Pretty, a pretty brutal manoeuvre by them.

But I got to say quite good, because if that hadn't happened,

I don't think anything else in my,

I think a whole lot of other things would have happened

that all worked out quite well in the end.

Yeah, bold strategy.

Bold strategy, which just paid off.

That's cool, that's cool from my parents.

My parents are pretty tough people, you know.

They, at their heart, they're also like very principled.

And I think they thought, well, we said this

and we have to follow through with it now.

But I mean, you'd never do that now, would you?

No, no.

I mean, I wouldn't do that to my kids.

But look, in the end, it was, it was probably the right thing to do.

Well, it was the right thing to do.

Well, thank you for sharing it.

There's one point I just want to kind of go back on

as well as just for clarity's sake,

that trip home on the Northerner, after you were expelled,

is that a different trip to the trip on the Northerner,

which I referred to earlier,

which is the story of you losing your virginity.

I just want to make, just for clarity's sake,

that they're two different Northerner trips.

Totally different Northerner trip.

There was, I made three trips on the Northerner

in my year at Wollinow.

Two very memorable.

For very different reasons.

Yeah, there were two, you're right.

There were two very memorable ones

and one that I can't remember anything about.

In fact, was there?

I think they may have only been two.

They were both very memorable.

Yeah, I lost my virginity on one

and the other one was a different feeling altogether.

I remember going home and I remember being on this train

and I thought, God, this is a disaster.

You know, what are you?

I never thought that I was going to be a person

who'd be expelled from the school.

I just wasn't that type of person.

You know, okay, I pushed the boundaries at certain times,

but I was never like, I was not an expulsion.

In those days getting expelled was a big deal.

Oh man, that was a big deal.

Because before that we had canings

and all sorts of stuff.

But being expelled, that means you're a bad person.

That means you're a bad, bad person.

And yeah, I just remember,

there were a couple of incidents there

and definitely, I used to smoke in those days

and I remember being up the front of the area where you smoke

and it was nighttime because it left at 11 o'clock in Martin.

So you go through the night and I remember thinking,

what do you do in this situation?

I thought, I think you're meant to kill yourself.

And I just thought, I think that's what I'm meant to do.

That would be the honourable thing to do in this situation.

You know, he brought such shame to your family.

And luckily, I just didn't have the guts to do that.

But I mean, looking back, that was a moment,

but yeah, I just wouldn't even have the guts

to be able to do something like that.

But it's definitely a thought that I had.

Yeah, well thank God you push through,

because so many people do have those thoughts

and take the other path.

Yeah, well luckily for me, I wasn't a case of so much,

you know, as I said, I wasn't.

It was just a thought.

But that was not something that was really an option for me, luckily.

So life is in disarray.

There's only one thing to straighten you out,

and that's a little trip back down to Hamilton.

And that's a year at St. Paul's.

Now, you probably don't know this,

but we're proud ambassadors.

We're both from Hamilton.

We've got this movement going.

People really proud to be from Hamilton, proud of the city.

And it seemed like it straightened you out.

Oh, it was a good school when it was a good time.

And I met great people.

I met ACC Hedgy Lane there using my team, cricket team.

I met some, I met great friends.

It was a much, it was a much less strict school,

St. Paul's in Hamilton.

And the headmaster there as well, Steve Cole,

understood boys and had, I think he'd done a few things himself.

And so he realized how boys think.

And I think he spotted a kindred spirit in me.

I've seen him recently, actually.

And he was very good to me, I've got to say.

He did say to me when I went to the interview

to go back to school.

Because eventually I ended up reconciling

with my parents after a couple of months.

And then they said, look,

you've got to go back to boarding school.

Otherwise you can't be part of this family.

I was like, okay, here we go again.

So driving down to Hamilton.

And he said to me, Steve Cole was like, do you hear me?

Normally, because he spoke like Graham Henry.

Normally, I would give people two or three chances.

If they did something wrong at the school, for you,

you get no chances.

You do one thing wrong,

and you are out that door quick as a flash.

And I remember, that was the thing

they said to me in the interview.

But then luckily nothing bad happened.

So he didn't see you stoned on the roller.

He never caught me doing anything.

He didn't want to catch you doing anything.

Actually, that was the difference

between that school and one thing.

One thing, they wanted to catch you doing bad things.

They knew that people were out there doing bad things.

And they wanted to find them.

Whereas in Paul's,

they knew that you were doing bad things.

But they did not want to find them.

At Hamilton, baby.

Yeah.

If he doesn't hit us in the face,

we'll just let it slide.

And I was super lucky as well.

I had a housemaster there called Paul Wilson,

who, Jesus, he was a nice man.

And he was a classic example of like,

if everyone's nice and everyone's getting old,

I'm not going to go looking for problems here.

And as a result, everybody got on better

and he just gave you a little bit more rope.

And things were just a bit easier.

Because it's quite hard being at boarding school.

When do you experiment with all of these things?

We're meant to be a teenager.

At school the whole time, it's hard to do.

Before we move into the Have-O-Days,

Claim to Fame has been wedged

between Dan Vitori on the St. Paul's Honours Board.

Was that for a fiver?

Yeah, that's right.

Jeez, that's my proudest moment.

As, yeah, I got five wickets against Hamilton Boys High

in 1994 in a Gillette Cup match.

Wow.

Yeah.

Six for 24.

And we bowled them out for 108.

And got into the Gillette Cup semi-final as a result of that.

That's my greatest moment in life.

There's no doubt about that.

Everything was coming together that day in front of the school.

I think I was embarrassingly,

in those days I celebrate wickets a little bit too much.

And I think at the time Ian Bootham

was doing some weird kind of dance

where he'd stick his fingers up in the air

and sort of shake his bum.

And I remember at the end of it,

my mum came down to watch and at the end she goes,

you bowled well today,

but did you have to do that?

Every time you got a wicket?

Like, yeah, unfortunately, yeah.

Do you ever go do any old collegian events?

Ever roll into Hamilton these days?

Can we count on your support as a ambassador?

Is basically what I'm saying.

Look, I had a great time in Hamilton

and I will always remember the wonderful hospitality

that was shown to me in the Wakato in 1994.

I'll never forget that.

Very good.

And the good natured vibe in the Wakato.

And also the fact that in the Wakato,

drinking is just, it's,

oh, it's quite impressive the way that,

I mean, at our school, we had alcohol at our ball.

I mean, how many balls?

Yeah, I went to a St. Paul's Afterball once.

I ended up in Topol.

It was a hell of a night.

It was a hell of a night.

Hold on, the alcohol at the Afterball,

but actually actual ball.

I mean, who turns up and we've got drink tickets

and you're allowed five drinks.

I mean, really?

Yeah, five.

We're allowed five drinks.

Standards.

Yeah, like beer or wine.

What the hell?

That was a good time.

Yeah, sounds like we've got them.

Ambassador, put them on our list.

Definitely.

We'll be right back after this short break.

All right, I'm going to move us along.

So you finish high school.

High school years, we get through it.

Drop out of AIT in a day after dropping out

of the Journalism course for missing classes.

Wells was invited to co-host the first episode of Havoc.

Is that the timeline?

Is that factual as well?

Because sometimes these exact timeframes get stretched.

No, that was it.

I think if I remember rightly,

and sometimes you create these stories in your mind.

But I'm pretty sure what happened was,

I was in my last year.

I was in the last term of the last.

Yes, I was.

It was divided into two semesters in those days,

for some reason.

I was in the second half,

and I hadn't gone to a whole lot of lectures in the morning.

And it meant you didn't get terms requirements

to sit an exam.

And so I wasn't allowed to sit the exam.

I remember the head of communications at the time called me

and said, you can't sit the exam because you haven't gone

to these lectures.

You haven't got your terms requirement.

And I was reading the news at BFM at that stage.

And I was reading the breakfast news with Mikey Havoc.

And it was on at the same time as a lecture or something like that.

And I thought to myself, this seems a bit unusual

because I'm actually doing some kind of the same sort of thing

that we're meant to be studying here.

I'm actually doing it in the world.

And I did say that to the head of communications at the time.

But she was like, no, that doesn't really work like that.

That's not part of the requirement.

So she said, sorry.

I remember being quite upset about that.

I was pretty gutted because I would have liked to have at least

been able to sit the exam.

And that meant that I would have had to come back

for another year at the end of that.

And not that I was doing well and that caused any way to be fair.

I think C's get degrees.

And I think I was just getting that.

You know, I really just, I was mainly focused on going out.

So you're reading the news for Mikey.

We've had him on the show.

He's one of the most charismatic,

you're a very charismatic person,

but Mikey Havoc in his prime, in his pomp,

just seemed to have this electric energy.

Did you gravitate to that straight away?

Did you know, did he have an aura around him

from the first time you met?

Oh my God.

Did he ever, like, on another level?

And at the time, definitely the most,

the funniest, most charismatic, sharpest,

well, you know, considered person that I'd ever met in my life

and so worldly and had such interesting opinions on things.

And I must have been maybe 19 or something when I met him.

And he was very hospitable to me.

And really welcomed me in.

And, you know, I, it was such a great time of my life

when I first met him.

And I can't explain to you how that guy,

if he was in a room, there was nobody else,

there was nobody else who would want to give a room energy.

He had an energy that was unmatched.

And look, a lot of people would say that,

you know, that may have come from different reasons,

but it wasn't, it came from inside of him.

You know, he was amazing, he was the best company

you could ever imagine.

What would, you know, if you go and hang out with other people

after you've hang out with him, and it's kind of like,

I don't know, it's like going from drinking absinthe

to, you know, a water or something.

Like, he's just, he has an amazing energy about him.

The story I'd heard about how Havoc started was

that he met Neil Roberts at a nightclub

and kind of charmed him and while I'm over,

and then he decided to give him a show.

Have at a show.

He did, that's exactly what happened.

And I remember him coming into radio on the Monday morning,

or maybe the Tuesday, and I was doing the breakfast,

and he goes, guy, this is the craziest thing

you have to do in the weekend.

Because I think it was at, it was at a place called the Staircase,

which was like a bar on, a nightclub on K Road.

It was like mainly a gay club that did night,

that did dance parties and stuff.

And yeah, I remember him coming in and saying,

I met the head of TVNZ on Saturday night,

and there we are, you know, dancing away.

And he said to me, you know, I've just bought MTV,

and I bought the rights for MTV Europe in New Zealand.

And he goes, I need local content.

Would you be interested in doing a show?

And Mike, he's like, yeah.

He goes, yeah, I said, what did you say to him?

He goes, of course, I said yes, of course.

And he goes, and I've got to get a prop turned

on by the end of the week.

And so, that was how, that was, that was born.

And I think then Mikey went away and came out

with a whole lot of crazy ideas that he'd always wanted to do.

And the other thing with Mikey, he was,

he knew how to use language amazingly,

and he could paint superb visual pictures on radio.

But what people didn't see was,

he also was very visual, you know, with things that he'd do.

And he was going sketches to friends all the time,

like the things that he would do, he was always acting

and being funny.

And he had love using props.

And yeah, he was an incredibly creative guy.

And so I thought, and TV was made for him, you know.

And yeah, so then he put that prop in,

and then Neil Roberts, I think, said yes.

How quickly into it did you realise

that it was something pretty special?

Because it blew, it was so new on TV screens in the late 90s.

Well, there was, there was,

you have to look around at what else was on at the time.

And I think our show was a reaction to what else was on.

And Mikey's probably told you about this.

But it was a lot, things were very safe

on New Zealand television in the late 90s.

And we would, I think probably previous

to the kinds of things that we were doing in terms of the tone,

probably the only other thing that was around before us

was probably Marcus Lusher's Segments on Newsnight,

which had the same kind of sensibility

as things that we were doing.

Marcus Lusher, also coming from BFM.

Paul Cassely, being the Director

of Marcus Lusher's Segments on Newsnight.

But I remember watching Newsnight as a kid.

It was a TV2 news show with Ally Moore.

I used to host it.

And before that, Simon Della on Ally Moore.

And Loreley Mason at certain times as well.

But anyway, Marcus would sit there.

And then at the end, you would just wait

for these Marcus' Story at the end.

Because he'd go to an organic rubbish collections

and just walk around and talk.

And he was so funny and absurd.

And that was kind of,

you didn't see a lot of that on TV.

It was all pretty straight down the line.

And heavily manufactured.

So I think when we first started Havoc,

there was not a lot of, we had stuff going on.

And Mikey was a surrealist in the greatest sense of it.

And so it was just really about putting

Mike's surreal brain and putting pictures to it, really.

And I think Neil was smart to be able to work that out.

I remember having a couple of conversations

with Neil before he died.

Because he died very young Neil.

Probably in his early 50s, I think, of cancer.

And him talking about Mikey and Neil had a huge admiration

for him and his creativity.

And yes, Neil could spot it straight away.

Good on Neil.

But so could Mike, he talked about you on the show.

Because originally you were on,

and you were kind of going to be a bit of a silent guy

who might chip in every now and then.

And we watched back that first episode

the other night with the Blombs.

It was very Havoc, but it was a bit awkward.

And you were doing the soda machines.

And then as the seasons went on,

your role became more and more.

And you really fell into this character.

So he's seen something in it.

Were you in 1920?

Yeah, I think I was 19 or 20, yeah.

But I think I did start as a researcher.

I was going to be a researcher on that show.

I mean, I wouldn't even know how to...

There's no Google in those days.

So what was I meant to do? Go to the library?

I think I did go to the library a couple of times.

Maybe in the first couple of weeks.

I can't remember.

Maybe the first couple of days anyway.

But then it kind of evolved.

But I think we knew that we kind of had a chemistry anyway

from radio.

So there was something there.

And then it just essentially evolved.

And it was allowed to evolve.

Because there was no pressure.

I mean, you could do whatever you want.

You could take a shit in the corner of the room

and that would be something.

I remember one day we decided

that we were going to trash our set.

Mike probably talked about that.

And we actually took to the set with Sledgehammers.

Like, this is a set that's made using TVNZ budget.

And we were listening to a, I think it was,

Rage Against the Machine video.

Because we used to play like two videos in a show.

And we just started smashing up the set.

Because we just kind of felt right.

And we walked out that night thinking,

yep, nothing unusual about that.

And I mean, the people who made the set must have been like,

you arseholes.

What did you do that for?

There's nothing about that.

It was just kind of, it's just that kind of anarchy.

And then also Paul Kassely met Mike at that stage.

And that was a great creative relationship

in terms of that show.

And I'm sure Mike probably talked about that.

But Paul had, as I said, worked with Marcus.

Paul was also Station Manager at BFM for a long time.

The alternative culture in those days was quite strong.

And there was a real difference between

Alternative and Mainstream.

And we were very much in the Alternative camp.

And we saw ourselves very much as outsiders.

And we liked being outsiders.

And Paul was an outsider, and Mikey was an outsider.

Even though he had quite different brains.

Together Paul could make the things,

Mikey's ideas, he could make them into television ideas.

And those two had a very strong relationship.

I think you solidified your alt status

when someone nailed their penis to a crucifix.

Oh yeah.

That was, don't watch it.

And then cut it on fire.

I wasn't sure about that detail.

Yeah, no, they lit it on fire.

Yeah, so, yeah.

It's a lot.

Well, in those days as well,

we were looking for the worst thing possible.

So the whole thing was like,

what is the worst thing that we could do on TV?

It's up there.

And that was right up there.

But someone sent that in to us.

Because they obviously got kind of the sensibility of the show.

But I just remember thinking,

my brain process was very much,

what has never been done on TV before, we must do it.

That was kind of where we were at.

It's funny thinking back.

Like, you know how disjointed your memory can be and unreliable.

A lot of those havoc episodes live on.

And I went searching for one of them, the live eye.

Where you're wearing the thing

and you're going in with a prostitute.

And it's like the state of the art, technology, TV and Z have got.

You've somehow got a hold of it.

And this whole scene has kind of played out.

There's no sex involved.

But I went looking for it, but I couldn't find it.

But it was a really sort of,

it was a clip that I kept referencing

for maybe 10, 15 years afterwards.

Because there was that conversation.

It's like, so, how about them warriors?

Does that not exist?

I couldn't find it anywhere.

Oh, thank God for that.

But I, that's a good story.

Because we, the time, there was prostitution law reform,

which was going on.

And at the time, I think prostitution

had been decriminalized in New Zealand.

And so that was a topic du jour.

Let's get our teeth into the topic du jour,

which is this issue.

Because nobody else would have been touching it.

It would have been one of those things.

And I remember Michael sitting down

and saying, okay, what do we do?

And I remember saying, well,

one of us has to have sex with a prostitute.

It's just, of course.

And he's like, yeah, okay.

And then we're like, how are we gonna do that?

And then at the time, we were involved,

because we worked at TVNZ as part of TVNZ.

We had access to the news library.

And Paul Casley used to just take images

out of the news library.

And so that was,

and then create new stories out of it.

And I'd voice them.

And we had access to all of the things

at TVNZ, like everything.

And quite a large budget, stupidly.

And so we then asked Paul Cutler,

who was the head of news and counterfeist,

do you mind if we borrow the live eye?

We're doing, we're filming a segment.

He was like, okay.

Like, they didn't even ask what for.

And so we packed it up inside of a brothel.

And then we went into the brothel.

And then we, we,

and then I went in with a cricket helmet with a candy cam

stuck to this taped gaffer tape.

It's right.

And Mike was inside the live eye guiding me.

We did a paper rock scissors before that.

Who was going to have sex with a prostitute?

And I, I, I don't know whether I won or lost.

I can't remember, but it was me.

And then Mike was like, it's gonna be okay, mate.

And then it was me on the phone,

the segment before was me on the phone to my partner

at the time saying, oh, yeah,

I've got to have sex with a prostitute.

Like explaining to her.

And then anyway, I ended up going in there.

And I didn't actually have sex with her.

I was kind of pretending.

And we, we, we, she was a prostitute.

That was, that was sex worker.

That was, that was true.

But then so there I am doing that.

And then I think I put a picture of the news talk ZB,

the radio lineup in front of me.

Just in case I needed,

in case things went on for some time.

And I've got a Mike in the live eye,

who's directing me, just giving me tips

on what I should be doing, what I shouldn't be doing.

And then, and then in the end,

I think I ended up zooming into Murray Dekas' face upon climax.

But the funniest thing about that was,

we did the show and that was all fine.

My mother at the time was a manager

of the New Zealand Nepple team.

And she was on camp in Auckland

before they went away to the World Games.

And she never watched the show, thank God.

She never watched any of our Havoc shows.

She knew that it was just best that she didn't watch it.

But that night, the girls in the Nepple team,

Bernice Mini, was the person who said to my mum,

come on Ducky, there's her name,

come on Ducky, let's watch during this TV show.

And my mum's like, no, no, it's fine.

And the girls were like, no, come on, we'll all sit down.

And so the entire New Zealand Nepple team,

of all the days that they would choose

to watch the Havoc show with my mum,

was that episode.

And so they sat down and watched that.

Now, can you imagine my mum,

she's watching me pretend to have sex with a sex worker,

with all that sort of stuff.

And then the Murray Deaker thing at the end.

And she has never, ever mentioned to me

that she ever watched it.

She's never told me the story.

The only Bernice Mini was the one

that told me the story about 10 years later.

And I thought, oh, my poor mum,

having to watch me do that.

Poor Lady Cheryl, yeah.

Yeah, but I'm pleased that that doesn't exist anymore.

Yeah, we'll go looking for it again.

So as this sort of snowball is building

and the show is so popular and it's you and Mikey,

you're such recognisable characters.

Like we talked about now,

there's so many different avenues for people to watch.

Then it was like three channels

and everyone was watching the show.

When you went out touring around together, was it,

was it hysteria, was it,

was it people lining up in the streets to see you guys?

Yeah, there were a lot,

because I think New Zealand was quite a different place

in those days.

A, there was no social media.

There was no internet.

There were, in some parts of the country,

one channel,

like, for example, the West Coast of the South Island.

They didn't even have a TV2.

They learned TV3.

So it was a different cultural landscape in those days.

And TV, people who were on TV were kind of novelties.

You know, nowadays, it's like, whatever.

But then it was something different.

And people never,

people didn't see you or hear from you very often.

So I think people wanted to know more.

So they wanted to see what you were like.

They wanted to see you in the flesh.

So yeah, when we'd do our, our Salat tours,

we'd go places and it was early days of cellphones.

And so people would text other people to say,

oh, you know, have a can use boy,

or filming something in, in the main street of,

you know, Westport or something.

And next thing you know,

there'd be like, yeah, heaps of people

who come down just to kind of stare at you.

Sort of see you where the, where the, you're real.

But it was, it was quite a different time.

I mean, nowadays, I think now,

if I go to a, like a town, a supermarket or stuff,

people will look at you, definitely.

But it's not the same as what it was in those days.

It was a completely different vibe.

But social media means that people get you the whole time.

They can get you, they can, they can basically communicate.

They can DM you if they want to and you DM back.

So yeah, it's a different, there's a different,

there was a distance in those days.

Do you look back?

Are you the sort of person that looks back

when you look back on Havoc and Newsboy?

Is that something you're proud of?

Do you, do you look back in it?

Are you really happy with the work you did?

No, no, I'm not.

And I don't look back.

No.

And I do occasionally,

if I'm doing something like this, I'll think about it.

But before that, I don't really have any thoughts about it.

And I mean, I, look, I, I'm not, it is what it is.

It was something that I did and I can't,

it's like the fact that I gave, you know, a cannabis,

a cap of cannabis oil to a, to a, you know, recovering drug addict.

It's like, that is something that I did.

I can't take that back now.

And it is, it is what it is.

It's probably not the best thing to do.

And if I was, I would do it again.

Only because if I didn't do it again,

who knows what would have happened.

But, but it's not something that I'm proud of.

And so I don't know, I don't look back on things and go,

you know, I'm particularly proud of this

or particularly proud of that.

I can't think of anything that I'm particularly proud of.

Is it the same with eating media lunch

and the unauthorised History of New Zealand?

Do those two pieces of work as well kind of sit in that space?

Yeah, well, I'm, I'll tell you what I am proud of.

And if I'm honest, I'm proud of the, the team that,

like I'm proud of the partnership that I created

along with Mikey to, to make the Sellout Tours.

And I'm proud of the part that I played in the,

in the Havoc Show and the, being a part of that team.

I'm proud of the, of the teams that I've been involved in.

But my own kind of performance inside of that,

I don't want to watch that stuff again.

I'm not really interested.

There's a memory of it in my head and, and it, it, it happened.

And I have weird memories of, of stuff from the past.

But I don't want to go back over and relive the gold.

You know, like, I don't, I don't think it was gold myself.

But, but I, I was definitely proud to be a part of the team.

And, and, and when people come up to me and say that they enjoyed certain

parts of it or something like that, that makes me feel good.

But, but yeah, it's not something that I really go over or anything like that.

Getting target.

It's one of my all time favorites.

Your that was a great, see.

Just for what it's worth.

Yeah, no, that was a great performance from Ed Cake.

And he's a musician.

Ed Cake from Breserkreding Cake.

And yeah, he stomping around.

And he put it with a heck of a pissy.

His lines and that, because that was all, he adlibbed all of that stuff.

Wow.

It's just so good.

It's an incredible performance.

He bought something completely so bizarre.

Is that the one where he's glad wrapped in himself and he takes a shit on the,

in the pot on the, on the, on the top.

Yeah, that was never part of the script.

Any of that was never part of the original idea.

That was just Ed and a stomping bit.

But there's this bit where he's stomping around.

That guy is a genius.

He's incredibly clear.

I mean, great musician and just so unusual.

I won't keep you too much longer, but I'll just move you along.

I do want to talk about the ACC because you're such an integral part of,

of its beginning and where it's come to now.

And the cricket commentaries, like when that thing,

when you had the caravan and you're on the sideline of the games and it was you

and Jace Hoyt and Mike Lane and, and the crew and Lee Hardall together.

Like there was such a magic happening.

And I think a lot of it came down to your expertise in calling the game.

So it sounded like a real cricket commentary.

And then just that absolute sort of nonsense.

The filth around it, but the ball by ball is an incredible combination.

Yeah.

Finally.

Well, thank you.

That it's a, it's a funny thing because it was originally, it was a parody.

I mean, it's a, like most of the things I do,

including what I do on seven sharp now is a parody of someone doing it.

You know, I'm pretending to be someone and that's kind of how I have to do it.

I'm not really that.

I'm not really a cricket commentator.

I'm not really a television host.

I'm just someone pretending to be a television host.

I'm not really a radio host.

It's just all a parody of, of those people.

And I think with, with the ACC, when G Lane and I first started talking about it,

we were very clear that it needed to still be cricket commentary,

even if it was a, it was a parody of that,

but that bit of it was a crucial part to it working.

I wasn't just some friends standing around crapping on.

And so when we made that role and thank goodness that we made it really,

really clear from the start, that, that no matter what happened,

everything had to stop as soon as the bowl was about to bowl.

That's when the ball by ball person took over.

And also someone had told us that that's how commentary teams worked.

Like we didn't really know because we've never been in a commentary box before.

Someone said like, there's a ball by ball person.

There's a comments person.

It's like, okay, that makes sense.

But I, that is the ACC and those in cricket commentary,

particularly is something I'm, I'm super proud of.

And I'm, I'm very proud of, again, the team of people that G Lane and I put together,

because Lee Hart and, um, you know, G Lane wouldn't,

they didn't really know each other particularly well and, um,

you know, Matt didn't know Lee Baker and,

and Paul Ford didn't know Lee Hart or like none of these people.

The connection was really through G Lane and I.

And in my head, it was just like, okay,

who has the same sensibility as us and the same idea of the absurd

and knows something about cricket and was also a person who is a generous

person who can listen and then take it somewhere interesting.

And so, and after the first commentary in Napier that day,

I thought to myself immediately, I went, yeah, this is, this is,

I knew immediately that that was going to work.

I was like, this is, this is something here.

We've got something.

Was that after, guess the commentator's perineum?

No, that was later on.

That was in the World Cup.

I, look, I thought the, I thought the one where we,

each one of the commentators shared their ejaculate onto a.

No, the chap side.

I thought that, that's good.

Like looking back on, I'm actually quite proud of that.

Because that's going into an area,

nobody can ever go down there again.

Where that's 100% a first in World Commentary.

And nobody can ever take that away from us.

We are definitely the first commentary team to all ejaculate onto a Tissue

and then to run a competition of who's ejaculate is who's.

I'm proud of that, I am proud of that.

If you've this far through the episode, go back and,

and you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to Mike Lanez

because he tells an amazing story

about the most disgusting story ever told on the ACC.

I think it involves a businessman's sock

and it might have been you telling it.

Oh, yes.

We don't need to, we go over that ground.

The weird thing about the ACC and where we went,

we never planned on going, we never said,

okay, we're going to make the worst,

we're going to say the worst things that could possibly say,

like nobody ever planned that.

It just always ended up descending

and because there was no censorship rule

and because we were on the internet,

there were no broadcasting standards,

we could go anywhere, which was just so freeing.

And that's why we ended up going,

we never planned on going into any of these places.

But it was a place that you just realized,

you could just let the dogs off the leash

and just see what happened.

And it's very liberating that.

What the ACC has become, it's branched out,

you know, it's live events now, it's commentaries,

it's a suite of podcasts.

Are you involved in the vision of what you want it to be

or are you sort of hands off in lane sort of tax care there?

Well, I'm pretty hands off and it would be kind of,

I mean, I still chuck my aura

and where I think that I should chuck my aura

but in terms of the day-to-day running

and how it all works, that is G-lane

and G-lane is amazing at moving things forward

and he has the ability to have about seven or eight balls

in the air at any given time

and you would never even know

that he's juggling all of these things.

It's just like each thing he's got,

seems he's got 100% attention on.

And meanwhile, I've never met anyone

who's got that mental agility before.

You know, it's pretty amazing.

And he can also go very much from

that creative part of his brain

into an administrative world.

He can walk over that bridge very, very easily.

Most people struggle with that,

but he can deal with all of that stuff really, really easily.

But in my mind, I like where it's going

because I think it has to expand.

And I just love the idea, this main sentiment

which will always be with the ACC,

which is entertainment and making sports

and whatever else we end up covering, entertaining.

And that's the main part of it.

Because I think that's,

or that was the thing where we started,

that was the bit that was just missing,

some kind of entertainment aspect to it.

We've been to a lot of places,

I just want to touch on the late night big breakfast.

Was that, for all of the things you've done,

was that one of your most enjoyable pieces to put together?

Because it seems, despite your deadpan delivery

on 90% of what you do,

to be an incredibly fun environment of just chaos as well.

Great to be a part of that

because I was sitting beside Lee Hart and Jason Hoyt.

And to be part of that dynamic

and the chemistry between those two,

because they have a great chemistry.

And just to watch how that works.

I mean, I think you can see when you watch.

I am most of the time bewildered,

it is, because I didn't know what was happening.

And no one knows what's going on in Lee's brain.

Like, I think Lee totally knows what's going on in his brain.

He's well aware of, he's actually very organized inside of his head.

But it does not seem like that from the outside,

which is brilliant.

And to watch him and Jace interact.

And I was like, I will always be thinking,

do they know what they're doing here?

Like, does anyone, is this a plan?

I didn't even know.

I just sort of turned up for a couple of hours and shoot it.

And then go home.

So when I watched the final product, I was like, wow,

this is amazing.

This is A, not what I thought it was going to be.

And Lee, not only is he an amazing live performer Lee,

but then when he's actually cutting things together

and the stuff that he does post production,

he's very, very clever.

I remember watching Olympico, this dates me a little bit,

but I sent that to so many people.

It was like, you need to watch Olympico.

And it was you, Jace and Lee,

and you had like Daniel Loder and things on.

And that was kind of the basis, I think, of the big breakfast.

But the same dynamic.

Yeah, it was, it was the basis.

It just worked.

Filmed in a car park in a caravan again.

I think we were as a campervan that one, I think.

Yeah, it was a campervan.

It's when you break character,

is the funniest parts that I find,

is like when Mike the Mongolian Throat Singer is on

and you're in tears, it's,

there's all sorts of little,

if you watch closely,

you can see the parts where people break.

I think Lee must deliberately leave them in the cut

because they're so good.

Yeah, well, that actually was the only time

I'd seen Lee break character.

Like, he doesn't break character ever.

And Hamon Jace, and Jace is quite good at holding it in.

But that was, the reason that I'm laughing so hard

and that Mike the Mongolian Throat Singer

is because I saw Lee break.

And he never breaks.

And so when someone like that starts laughing,

it's like, what a great, that was a great joy

that Mike the Mongolian Throat Singer.

Man, yeah, but that's that thing

that we're talking about earlier,

which is that magic thing.

It's like, what is that?

It's hard to say exactly what is,

but that is, I reckon, that is why I,

and I'm not sure about other people broadcast,

but that is why I do what I do,

is for those moments that are elevated,

that are magic moments,

they come from somewhere and they're different.

They're different than when you hang out with your friends,

because you're being filmed and all that sort of stuff.

But those are the best moments of your life as a broadcaster.

I'm going to start to wrap us up.

I had a bunch of big questions at the end.

We've actually worked our way through them, through the episode.

But there's one that I wanted to get to,

and it's kind of like looking ahead to the future.

And is it, are you a retire early kind of guy?

Like, are you go hard for a few more years

and then take the feet off?

Or will you keep going for the foreseeable?

I think my feelings on that change every day.

And sometimes they change three or four times in that day.

So I don't know.

I think I just kind of keep going and see what happens.

I don't know.

Retire and then what?

I mean, the idea of retiring would be quite nice.

What would be nice to have like a sabbatical like

for like two months a year or something,

where you don't have to do anything in the middle.

Like, to have more holidays would be quite nice.

But I don't think that kind of works.

But no, I think I want to keep doing things.

I think if I wasn't broadcasting now,

I think it's in me.

And I think if I wasn't doing it,

I think I'd be deeply unhappy.

I think that's what happens as a broadcaster.

Before Steven starts the pre-wrap up,

can I just ask one question?

The pre-pre-wrap up.

How lucrative is it being the face of a New Zealand power company?

Ah, well, I'm not.

Do you mean was it?

Yes, sorry.

Was it?

I have.

Is it?

Was it?

Ah, look, it's reasonably lucrative.

And I mean, when that happened at the time,

again, timing is everything.

But it was just coming to the end of eating media lunch.

And I've never done anything commercially before.

And then Chris Bleakley and John Plummer,

two guys that worked at Satches and Wellington for a long time.

I think they wrote the bugger ad.

They came and they were working for a company

called Assignment Advertising Agency.

And they said, we look after Meridian, blah, blah, blah.

And we think it'd be quite good.

We've written these ads with you fronting it,

basically being you as you are on eating media lunch.

And I said, oh, yeah, okay.

I don't know if I'm just doing ads or whatever.

And then they said, you know, you could,

if you don't like a word, you change a word,

if you don't like it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then it ended up happening.

So I said, yes.

But even though at the time, I thought,

hmm, I'm not sure about advertising.

I've got to be kind of be careful here.

In the end, that was a good decision.

That was a lucky decision because it was a 50-50.

But that was definitely the right thing to do at the time.

Because then eating media lunch, nobody wanted,

well, we didn't want to make any media lunch anymore.

And then I had other ideas that I was putting forward TVNZ

that weren't getting commissioned.

And so that really came at a good time.

And also I think at the time,

that's doing a bit of radio and other stuff.

And it was not a massive commitment.

It was sort of like 10 days a year or something.

And it certainly pays a lot more doing that

than it does doing radio or doing television.

You know, that's just the way that it is.

So I was very lucky with that.

And it was a good company.

They were great people to work with.

Meridian is a very, you know, it's a good company.

It's 100% renewable at a time

when people weren't really that focused on that sort of stuff.

So that sort of felt like that was okay.

You ready for the pre-wrap?

This is a pre-wrap.

You go pre-wrap.

All right.

I just want to say thanks for coming in.

Had high expectations for this episode.

Well, I'm sorry.

I think you've delivered.

But reflecting on it, the stuff you shared about the high school,

the difficult years through the high school

and the fact that you were even thinking about,

you know, ending it or things got that bad.

And to see the success you've had,

I think is a good lesson and good for people to hear

who are going through their own struggles

to see, you know, push through it, come out the other side.

But the breadth of your career

and your life has brought me so much joy.

So thank you so much for coming up.

Well, that's such a nice thing to say.

Thank you, Steve.

That's very very kind.

I'm not the outro guy though.

See, if someone says a nice thing about you,

it's like, oh, that's, you know,

that's well worth everything that you do.

You know, that's what it's all about.

You hope that you entertain people.

You never know.

And then you meet people and someone says something nice to you

and it makes you feel bloody good.

Strap yourself in.

You spoke about luck earlier.

And like, I, like, you're right.

Like, it's amazing luck that we're in this position

that we are right now.

But you kind of make your own luck as well.

So I'm really, I get really inspired

when we get the opportunity to talk to people

that I've looked up to for a long, long time.

And incredibly lucky, I think, to have seen your body of work.

No matter, no matter what, you talk about magical moments.

Some of the stuff that you've created since 1999,

they're magical moments for me.

They've accompanied me through times that I first saw them,

through times when I was away,

that I wanted to tie myself back into New Zealand,

times where you're feeling blue and you think,

I'm just going to pop that on,

because I know it's going to give me a chuckle.

So from that perspective, thank you very much

for providing wonderful, wonderful, magical moments.

And it's really humbling to be able to share what we do

with someone like yourself, like Matt Heath,

like Lee Hart, like those people that we've looked up to

and pick their brain and hear that their stories

are not too different to ours in their own way.

And it's just incredibly uplifting

to kind of keep persevering and keep pushing forward.

So thank you very much for spending some time with us,

because we know you're an incredible.

Not firstly.

Don't be silly.

Don't be silly.

The idea of a body of work,

I think that doesn't sound right to me.

It's not really a body of work.

Over the years, you just do some things

and then maybe you look back on it

and you say it was a whole lot of stuff.

But I don't know if I'd refer to it as a body of work.

But I'm pleased that it's brought you,

even a little smile in the corner of your mouth

would be enough from me.

So thank you.

That's a very nice thing to say.

And I appreciate it.

I don't necessarily agree that it's what I do

has had a huge effect on people.

But if it's made people smile

or it's brought any joy or hasn't brought bad things,

even if it hasn't brought bad things,

then I reckon that's good.

But just touching on that luck thing

is an interesting one,

because you might think that you make your own luck.

And I think to a certain degree,

you do make some decisions.

But the fact that you were born,

where you were born in my situation, 1977,

to loving parents in New Zealand,

like what a crazy piece of luck that was.

And that's where it starts.

Once that first piece of luck.

Now, I didn't create that.

I had nothing to do with that.

I didn't do anything for that.

And I could have been born in 206 B.C. or something

and been a slave in 206 B.C.

or two, born slavery.

And now, that would have been a tough situation.

So, the fact that you were born in that position

and then the bits of luck that happened off from that schools

and people that you encounter

that you have nothing to do with is,

I think the most fascinating thing in life.

Luck is the most interesting thing in the world.

To me, anyway.

But I'm not sure I actually believe in the idea

that you actually create your own luck.

I think that the original luck that's created

has nothing to do with you,

which is the most amazing thing in the world.

Even the fact that there was even a universe.

Do we want to go back that far?

We have.

But I reckon that that's a big thing,

is that you've got to recognise in any given situation

that really it's got nothing to do with you.

That really, there's a whole lot of other situations

that have put you into this situation

and you should always feel lucky for that,

because it's so little to do with you

and more to do with everything else.

Well, I feel incredibly lucky today.

Cheers, Jeremy.

Thank you.

Hey guys, if you've made it this far,

hopefully that means you've enjoyed this episode.

And if you feel strongly enough about it

to share on social media,

that would be much appreciated.

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Catch you next week.

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