Mamamia Out Loud: Jennifer Aniston, We Have Questions…

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Mamma Mia Out Loud!

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud.

It's what women are actually talking about on Friday the 25th of August.

I'm Holly Wainwright.

I'm Mia Friedman.

And I'm Claire Stevens.

And on the show today, a very famous man sends Jennifer Aniston flowers on Mother's Day every year.

Why do we know about this?

Plus, do women like being negged?

And if so, why?

And best and worst, which include a slogan that's driving me wild, Claire's brain, which apparently has holes in it, and Mia's new patch, which hopefully doesn't.

But first, in case you missed it, Fire Festival is back and tickets are selling out fast, you guys.

So the original Fire Festival back in 2017 was canceled and racked up $40 million in losses, going viral after it was promoted by people like Kendall Jenner, Bella Hadid, Hailey Bieber, none of whom actually attended.

And after marketing the luxury event to massive fanfare, attendees live tweeted the literal bin fire they arrived to in the Bahamas.

When Music Acts pulled out due to lack of payment, the luxury accommodation turned out to just be a dirty, swampy campground.

There was very little food and water, and what they were served with sliced bread with just two slices of cheese.

The festival's organizer, Billy McFarland, went to prison for four years for wire fraud.

It was such a good documentary.

And that documentary I have just never been so rude to.

One of the greats.

It's so good.

So he went to prison for four years for wire fraud relating to his role in financing the original festival, and now he's the one behind Fire Festival too.

So it was like a criminal scam.

Like it was a scam.

He's a con man.

He's a con man.

He's a con man.

And now people want to go to the next one.

So this week, the first 100 presale tickets went on sale for US $499, Australian $780 each sold out immediately.

In response to the announcement, one person commented, tell me why you shouldn't be in jail.

And McFarland responded, it's in the best interest of those I owe money for me to be working.

He still owes creditors $39 million.

The festival will go ahead in late 2024 with tickets being released in stages.

And the final stage presale last chance tickets will cost Australian $12,400.

Oh my gosh.

You guys, why are people going and isn't there a saying about fool me once something, something for me twice.

It's on me.

Well, I think that you can draw a comparison between this and the fact that Donald Trump is the leading Republican contender for the presidential nomination.

I mean, I don't know.

There's some weird collective amnesia situation going on in America.

I'm not sure.

I've forgotten.

You know what else it is.

Remember, we talked a while ago about how chaos is the new publicity plan.

This is a perfect example of that.

It's kind of the new version of all publicity is good publicity is that like people are just attracted to the drama and the chaos and they're like, I want to be part of that.

Yeah.

Which is again, me and not dissimilar to the whole Trump campaign.

The chaos theory of marketing that we unpacked a few weeks ago is definitely at play here.

I think you're so right.

Because everybody is thinking about the content they're going to make when they're waiting for the bus that never arrives and the tents that have been flooded or don't even exist.

And then because it's America, everyone's thinking about who can I then sue?

Yeah.

What class action can I be part of against the organizers?

So yeah, everyone wants to be in on it.

I guess, you know, he's going for a corrective experience and everyone else is going for good content.

Yes.

And this is why Jesse and I invented the council courtroom because Billy McFarlane's one punishment out of this whole thing.

Forget jail.

Forget fines.

It needed to be no more festivals.

They're not your thing.

You're not very good at organizing them.

You get in over your head.

And what's he done?

Fire Festival 2.

A new profile of Jennifer Aniston has come out in the Wall Street Journal.

And, you know, there are so few celebrity profiles these days because they just don't need to do them.

There's social media.

They've got their own mouthpieces.

They don't need to do them.

So when a celebrity does do a profile with a reputable media organization like the Wall Street Journal,

everyone's all over it because it's something to talk about, right?

So here are the biggest takeaways from this profile because there are a few.

Even though you would think, what else can we learn about Jennifer Aniston after all of these years?

The first is that the profile opens.

This is always my favorite thing about celebrity profiles.

The description, the scene setting, the world building as the journalist meets the celebrity.

What always strikes me as bizarre is when a celebrity as famous as Jennifer Aniston and as powerful as Jennifer Aniston.

And we know there are so many behind the scenes negotiations that would go along with this when they do it in their own house.

Why would you do that?

Because she likes interior design.

I can walk into a house and see what it needs and it's a fun process.

Some people dread it.

They can break up relationships.

I thrive during that process.

Like when Meghan Markle had the journalist from the cut to her Montecito house.

Same deal.

It is such a high risk strategy.

Not only that, when the journalist arrives, she's doing the splits.

Of course.

She's sitting on the floor with her legs at a 180 degree left and right angle.

So they're that far apart.

That is all about projecting a youthful exterior because little girls can do the splits.

And everybody after little girls has to work unbelievably hard on Pilates and extend bar to be able to do such things.

So that is what we call a humble brag.

Was she really doing the splits?

Well, yeah, the journalist has no reason to make something up.

Celebrities are bloody weird then.

It's also quite exposing.

Literally having your legs wide open.

Welcome to my house.

The body language of that.

Okay, can I just tell you what I found bizarre about this whole thing is how much she talks about Brad Pitt.

But here we go.

She knows what people want.

And also maybe the journalist to their credit was just good at getting her to talk about those things.

She says it took two years to recover from her divorce.

Took the world a lot longer.

We're still not recovered.

No.

It would take me a lot longer than that to recover from Brad Pitt, I have to be honest.

She said because friends came to an end in 2004 at the same time pretty much as she was divorced from Brad just a few months later.

And she said she was slower than some of her castmates when it came to looking for other work because I'd gone through my divorce

and there was a real shift in my life that in terms of coming out from under the rubble of that.

I found the interesting part was that so her and Brad Pitt had their own production company called Plan B.

Yes.

And then she left it and kind of left it to him.

And Brad Pitt has a bloody track record of starting businesses with spouses and then taking it when the marriage ends.

And that is upsetting to me, Brad, because share it please.

Well, no, that's our custody.

I mean, you know, financial settlements work like the Chateau that he had with Angelina.

You don't want to share something after you've split up.

Well, why does he always get it?

Well, she didn't want it.

He wanted to produce.

She's never wanted to produce.

And he's just sold that, I think, or part of it for hundreds of millions of dollars.

Now, the third thing we learned, and this is a really interesting thing.

And I need Holly to explain why we've learned it.

Adam Sandler sends her flowers every Mother's Day.

Now, they've been love interests on screen in three different films, none of which you've probably seen.

Just go with it, Murder Mystery and Murder Mystery 2.

They're all bad.

All of them.

So Adam and his wife, Jackie, are very close to Jennifer Aniston.

And she said to the Wall Street Journal, the couple sent her flowers every Mother's Day.

Holly, please explain why she's saying this.

This is really interesting to me too, because as we all know, one of Aniston's most.

And by the way, all her friends call her Aniston.

I know this because she hangs out with this very particular group of Hollywood people,

the Jimmy Kimmels, the Jason Bateman, the Adam Sandlers.

And she hangs out with lots of couples or she's friends with all these.

And they all call her Aniston.

I've never heard any of them call her anything else.

So I am also going to call her Aniston because I'm desperate to be in that circle and be drinking margaritas with them in Cabo.

Anyway, Aniston spent, as we all know, 20 odd years fighting off.

Is she pregnant?

Isn't she pregnant?

Is she going to have a baby?

Isn't she going to have a baby?

Obviously, we all know the story that came out after Brad left her that he wanted to have babies and she didn't want to have babies because she was too career focused.

And we all know that she's also deflected that in the past and said that isn't true.

She once wrote a whole essay for the Huffington Post about how the interrogation of her fertility has been one of the most damaging things both to her and other women.

But now she's at a place because she's out the other side of that, you know, like she is.

How old is Aniston, Mia?

Fifty-four.

Fifty-four.

Fifty-four.

Fifty-four.

Mid-fifties.

I think that could be a little bit of a furphy.

She's mid-fifties.

Mid-fifties.

So pregnancy watch has ended.

There is no longer any kind of endless pictures about like Miracle Baby, Aniston's twins, all that kind of stuff which she lived with for a long time.

She now has license to talk about it without, you know, the relentless speculation.

And she does talk about it quite a bit in this.

She talks about how in her thirties and forties she'd gone through all this hard stuff.

She says she went through IVF.

She was drinking Chinese tea.

She says, you name it, I was throwing everything at it.

And I just wish someone had said to me, freeze your eggs, do yourself a favor, which in itself is a very interesting quote.

Dropping the detail about how her friends, particularly her famous couple friends, sent her flowers is a very specific detail that allows you to know that this is an area of great sadness for her.

And so it hoses down all that speculation that it was because she was too ambitious.

It's because she was too cold.

It was because whatever it says, I have lived, I have lost.

And the thing that I find interesting about it is it does open the sympathy door, which isn't necessarily a door I would have thought she would want to reopen because it's very boring all the years of poor Jen.

But that's what this is about.

It's about us rewriting that narrative in our heads that if she wanted to do it, she could have done it.

I think it softens her in this day and age where we're obsessed with vulnerability and we're obsessed with knowing the reality behind these celebrities lives.

I loved hearing that detail that despite all her, you know, success and all her fame that there are painful parts to her life.

It is an interesting story to tell and I'm sure it will annoy a lot of women who think, oh wait, I chose not to have children or I didn't have children and I'm OK with it.

I don't need somebody to send me flowers every Mother's Day.

But there was something about that friendship that really humanised her and also humanised Adam Sandler, who I see as a walking punchline.

That's why it's a very specific detail to drop because she could have talked about the IVF and the Chinese teas without going as far as, you know, my friends know this is such sadness to me that they send me flowers every year

because as you said Claire, we don't live in a world anymore where that's our default or at least we shouldn't, where that's our default reaction to someone who isn't a mother where we say, oh, poor you.

This is opening the poor you door, which is why it's quite interesting.

The next thing we learned is that she was always apprehensive around Harvey Weinstein, although he never assaulted her.

She wasn't one of the 80 women, including Gwyneth Paltrow and Ashley Judd, who came forward and talked about experiences with him and he is, of course, in jail.

So she said she never had any bad run-ins with Weinstein, although she does remember feeling wary of him.

She said he's not a guy you're like, God, I can't wait to hang out with Harvey. Never.

You are actually like, oh, God, OK, suck it up.

She says, I remember actually he came to visit me on a movie to pitch me a movie and I do remember consciously having a person stay in my trailer to which Harvey Weinstein issued a lengthy statement because he's in jail and has a lot of time on his hands.

And his statement really showed that he's not learned a lot over the years since he was exposed and then charged.

Because he said, you know, I met with her when she was doing this movie derailed and she would have complained to her manager or her agent or someone if she was uncomfortable and she was never uncomfortable.

And it was like, dude, you still don't get it.

Mate, that's the point.

Yeah.

People didn't feel comfortable complaining because you're in a position of power.

He also says, which is such a nag.

He also manages to say in that statement.

And I was like, Harvey's still commenting on things.

But he also says in that statement, when Brad left her, she was making that movie and I gave her the choice to suspend production.

And it's like, it's such a just a nag to throw in there like when he left her.

It's so bizarre to me that Harvey Weinstein is still making statements on this when it's like, honey, there is no way to repair your reputation.

Just let it stand.

So I don't know why she spoke about this, but the sixth thing that we learned is that a psychic predicted she'd meet Brad Pitt.

And this is where things get a bit woo woo.

She says, I'm a businesswoman who's got a crunchy side.

And she says she visits a psychic and one time a psychic correctly predicted that she would meet her future husband Brad Pitt.

The article clarifies that the psychic didn't predict meeting Pitt specifically, but a description that fit him.

I don't know.

What a bizarre detail.

Why? Why is she still talking about Brad Pitt?

It's very Jennifer Aniston every woman, right?

Because it's like, we all know, and I'm myself in this, we all know plenty of women of an Aniston-y age who like to put their crystals in the moon.

Like we all do.

And I think that it's very Aniston every woman.

She's like, I'm a sharp businesswoman, but also psychics salmon sperm.

She talks about rubbing on her face for her youthfulness.

She does.

Yeah.

The salmon sperm's different.

I'm going to get to it in one second, but I just want to just say one more thing about the Brad story.

If you draw a comparison between the only other woman I can think of who has a similar, would you say, experience to Jennifer Aniston being Nicole Kidman,

who was dumped by Tom Cruise, who ended their marriage after 10 years.

She does not talk about Tom Cruise in interviews.

I think that's because she's with Keith Urban.

But Jennifer Aniston's been with lots of people since then.

But she didn't speak about Brad when she was with What's His Face?

No, it's because of the NDA, Mia, you know that.

Brad remains the defining relationship of her life, her canon event.

Whereas, you know, most people would not even remember, well, certain people would remember that Nicole's even married to Tom.

It's not really like, I don't think Nicole's proud to have been married to Tom Cruise.

Not proud, but like, it's not really funny to hang your hat on.

Whereas Brad Pitt, you were married to the hottest, most sought after person in Hollywood.

If I was Jennifer Aniston, I'd be dropping that name everywhere.

Also, she just can't not talk about it, can she?

It's all anyone wants to talk to her about.

It's such a defining moment in her life.

Well, it's all anyone wanted to talk to Nicole Kidman about, and she just refused.

But she promised not to tell. You know that.

So you mentioned salmon sperm facials.

She did say that she'll try anything once when it comes to her skincare, including salmon sperm facials.

The quote is, first of all, I said, are you serious?

How do you get salmon sperm?

That question remains unanswered, but she does say she doesn't know if the salmon sperm facial had any effect,

but she does back her weekly peptide injections.

I do think that's the future.

Now, that's something you can't do in Australia yet.

It's not approved, but in America, very big.

One more thing that I'll tell you.

She brings her own Pimento stuffed olives to Europe.

Oh, Jesus.

She's very specific about her martinis.

She likes Pimento olives because one time she had a rogue incident in Europe with a calamata olive,

and she was upset about that.

Nobody wants a calamata olive in their martini.

I have to say, these celebrity profiles.

God, I find them overwhelmingly boring.

Like all of those details.

I love them.

The thing about the olives.

They're just very safe.

She also spoke about cancel culture, and she just said, I hate cancel culture.

I don't like it.

The whole thing about letting Pimento into your house and all that stuff,

if you read a really good celebrity interview by a really high profile magazine,

you know, as Mia just said, they're not really going to say anything very insightful or controversial,

but you learn a great deal about somebody by looking at their house.

Imagine if somebody came and interviewed me here and they were like,

we walked into Holly's house and there was an inch of dust on the skirting boards,

and it smelled slightly of cabbage.

I mean, like, you would immediately go like, yes, we know a lot about Holly from there.

I love them.

I think it's the only real way you get to see somebody.

I don't have bad habits.

Salt.

I over salt things.

Mother Mia, out loud!

A defense of nagging is going viral this week,

and I really don't know what to think about it because generally I hate it.

First of all, what is nagging?

It's the process of criticizing someone to get their attention

and make them more susceptible to whatever it is you want them to do.

So most famously, it's a strategy employed in a heterosexual dating arrangement

where an insecure man will criticize a woman to get her interest.

So there's a very famous pickup artist called Neil Strauss,

who wrote a book called The Game that all kinds of idiot men read in the naughties,

and he said,

nagging serves two purposes when you're trying to pick up a woman

to momentarily lower a woman's self-esteem, always helpful,

and to suggest an intriguing disinterest.

Now, generally speaking, it's what we would call a toxic thing to do.

But in this piece in the cut, writer Magdalena J. Taylor explained something a bit more surprising,

which is to sort of look at why it works and why often women actually like it.

She writes,

perhaps what nagging really has going for it is that it's inescapably personal.

It requires effort and attention to detail.

You can message a dozen women the same compliment on hinge,

but honing in on some little detail of a person's profile you can lightly joke about

takes a bit more time and energy.

You can't perform a roast without knowing your subject.

To be nagged, in other words, is to be seen.

This makes perfect sense.

Claire Stevens, do you like a nag?

I hate that there's an element of truth to this article.

I hate it.

But it is a very small element of truth, and it comes with a twist.

So I do remember having a boyfriend as a teenager who would comment

on very personal, specific elements of my appearance or personality,

like the way I drank from a drink bottle or the way I did my makeup.

There was tension in me that I was like, I feel a bit shit about myself,

but I found it hot because I was so flattered that he noticed.

And I almost think at that point, even more than being liked,

I wanted to be noticed and I wanted to feel seen.

With that said, as that dynamic went back and forth,

it turned out he didn't actually like me very much.

And then I went into a very healthy relationship with Rory,

who noticed things but with a complete bias to being flattering.

And I realized you can actually show someone you see them

by giving them a compliment rather than an insult.

I was like, whoa, he's not just ragging on me.

With that said, I do think there's a difference between nagging

and just having banter and being funny.

Because the writer of this piece in the cart referenced

chicken shop date with Amelia DeMoldenburg.

She referenced the one with Matt Healy,

who's a very controversial musician,

was going out with Taylor Swift recently.

And it was about how basically Amelia and Matt Healy were nagging each other.

How long did it take you to get ready for this date?

I'd like to say that I can't interest for the occasion,

but this is kind of how I dress.

It looks like you're going to a funeral.

Listen, you're gorgeous.

Yeah.

But I'm going on tour for a very long time.

So you're not available?

I didn't think I would be your type.

Well, you're here.

But the fact is it was charismatic and it was engaging and it was funny.

And that's why it worked and it was going both ways.

What the writer of this piece in the cart doesn't acknowledge,

I don't think, is the longevity or the quality of relationships

that start or are based on nagging.

Like it's hot for five minutes.

And then you're like, nah, shut up.

Stop being mean.

When does it become cruel?

So I remember when I was working in a bar in the US

and I heard two men sit down

and one man was training the other man on the game.

The Neil Strauss book.

Which was about how to pick up women by treating them badly.

And it was the cringiest thing I'd ever heard

and we all took turns at walking past and taking their drink order

so that we could pick up on the embarrassing conversation that was happening.

But what I realized, it was so embarrassing,

but it was also a man looking to another man

because he did not have the social skills to interact with women.

There's nagging when it's a charismatic person

who's sort of having banter with you and knows the line.

And then there's nagging when it's somebody

who doesn't have the social ability to tell where the line is

and they just say something mean and you go, what the hell?

But isn't it like flirting in that it's flirting only if you're interested?

If you're not interested, it's unwanted attention.

Yes, 100%.

Yes, but I also think it is also what comes out of their mouth.

I have been out with friends and a guy has come up

and said something clearly meant to be a nagging thing

and he is very attractive and has everything going for him

and something comes out of his mouth and you go, ew, no.

It's very fine line.

I like nagging in friendships.

Yeah, nagging in friendships is affectionate.

To me because it's a very Australian trait,

the taking the piss, right?

Very Australian and being sarcastic.

And that's what the root of Aussie banter is to me.

And I know a lot of Australian women who've tried dating,

particularly in New York,

where they'll be on a date and they'll be, I guess,

nagging and taking the piss and thinking that they're having great banter

and the guy actually is just really offended.

And I have one friend, a guy actually just got up and said,

you're being really rude to me.

I'm not going to stay here and just have you be rude to me.

And she's like, oh, I thought we were getting on really well

because it's a very Aussie sensibility.

And to me, nothing makes me happier.

I guess you'd call it nagging.

I do feel really, really seen when my friends nag me.

I do. I love it. I love nothing more.

It's part of our self-deprecating nature.

And I think when it comes from a place,

why the Amelia de Moldenburg Matt Healy thing works

because they're also coming from a place of being self-deprecating.

The joke is on her that she's like,

I am desperate for a boyfriend.

The key, though, it can't be something that you feel insecure about.

No, no.

Yes, that's exactly it.

I was going to say the thing about nagging in friendships or otherwise

is it only works if it isn't actually pushing on a bruise.

If it's pushing on a real bruise or sore spot for you,

that's where the line crosses.

It's like me when you've said a few times on the show,

there are some things that people will say about you.

It's a lot statement that actually really upset you.

I think that that's why when it's done with love

by people who know that and they know your parameters

and they know where to go and they know what line to not step over,

it's fine.

But like you, Claire,

I definitely had some relationships that were based quite heavily on nagging

and it was very sexy because then you become really obsessed

with winning compliments and approval from those people

because they seem quite hard to get.

You know what I mean?

Like if somebody's always criticizing you, even if it's only in little ways,

then when they do throw you on the bone of a compliment or say something nice,

it feels amazing.

But then having deeper experience of it has made me actually really, really allergic to it

because the reality of dating someone who constantly criticizes you is awful.

It's terrible for your head and I've been there.

It's interesting because young women in my life, my niece and even my daughter,

I see teenage boys learn how to nag really early

and they might go the way I get the attention of that girl in the class

or that girl in my extracurricular, whatever,

is to start saying little shitty things to her

because she'll kind of bristle and go,

oh, and then she'll notice me and she'll pay attention to me.

And I always say to them, it's a tactic of insecure boys.

I don't want to be dismissive, but silly little boys

who can't get your attention any other way.

And I think that's also true of grown men is if they're still hanging on to the idea

of like the way to get a woman's attention is to linguistically pull her pigtails.

You know what I mean?

Then this is not a mature human being.

This is not a person who understands kindness.

I am really sensitive to criticism from Brent.

It's really funny because he is generally a positive kind dude.

When he criticizes me about something, it gives me a hard time.

I know it's quite serious and it absolutely cuts me.

I get really upset about it.

Really? I'm the same. I'm the same.

Like, it's a good thing because it will usually make me act on it.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, I'll be like, oh, shit, I really better sort that out

because it's really upsetting him.

But I am very sensitive to criticism from him.

See, nagging is kind of white noise for me, whoever it comes from.

I just sort of take it all on the chin.

I want to point out that I've been doing some reading

and listening to a few podcasts about this lately

about coercive control and that sort of thing

that nagging can often occur in an ecosystem of abuse.

I've had that.

Yes, where you're trying.

It feels very different.

You don't feel seen.

You feel belittled.

Yeah, you feel small and you feel insecure and you feel less than.

I can see how it can seamlessly transition into a place

where you're trying to win the approval

of someone who relentlessly criticizes you

and that can manifest as power and control in a relationship

and chip away at your self-esteem.

And I genuinely do believe that had I, you know,

ended up in a relationship with the guy who used to do this to me,

I would be a very different person

and my self-esteem would have eroded over time,

so what's sickening about it is that I found it hot.

But the fact is I would have been a very different person.

I think my confidence would be gone.

I don't think I would have taken the kind of risks

that I've taken in my life

because it makes you self-conscious

that somebody is looking at you and noticing

things you do a bit strangely

or it makes you so self-conscious.

Whereas like you say,

Holly, Rory thinks that I am just the greatest thing

and having that kind of safety net.

But then when he says something,

hey, sweetie, so you haven't done a load of washing in three weeks.

That's not what negging is.

That's feedback.

That's feedback, which is a gift, as you say.

But no, that's not negging.

Negging is how you nailed it.

It's about trying to get your attention.

And the worst relationship in my life started with negging

and it worked. It got my attention.

It became very, very toxic and poisonous

and it was used to throw off the power balance

because he was punching above his weight with me

and by the end of it held all the cards somehow

and I had none and my self-esteem was in the toilet.

You felt like he ended up flipping that dynamic.

Yep, started with negging.

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It is Friday, which means it's time to wrap up the week

with our best and worst holly.

Please kick us off with your worst.

My worst is a political one this week.

Obviously the campaigning around the indigenous voice

to parliament is ramping up.

You will hear us talking about this on out loud

over the coming weeks and months

with people who know better than we do about it.

But my worst this week is the campaign slogan

that the no side have taken

and is all over my social media,

which is if you don't know, vote no.

So all over my Instagram and everything from this side,

it says don't know, vote no.

Now, I don't want to get into in this best and worst

about yes, no, whatever,

but it is the most cynical slogan.

It is the most cynical, shameless slogan

because most people, if they don't know something,

will be like, oh, I don't know something.

Isn't that even a little bit embarrassing

that I don't know that?

And I'm not saying that it is

because this is a very complicated constitutional issue.

But like emotionally,

you would expect that people might react with,

I don't know something.

Maybe I should find out.

Maybe I should ask someone.

Maybe I should read something.

This absolutely plays to the idea of no.

If you don't know, it's not good.

You know what I mean?

Like if there's something you don't understand in it.

I mean, I agree with you.

I think it's a genius line

and I think it doesn't just speak to the idea of

if you don't understand something, don't vote for it

in terms of anything that's different, don't vote for.

But I think it speaks to the yes campaign's inability

to have a tagline and put across a clear message.

And I think that that's been incredibly frustrating

for many of us who would like them

to have had a clearer message.

And I'm reliably informed that it was only this week

that the yes campaign have briefed agencies

to come back with a campaign slogan.

And apparently the referendum's going to be announced next week.

There's going to be a six week campaign and then we're voting.

I guess my worst, I know it's not my turn yet.

My worst is my frustration with the yes campaign's ability

to articulate itself and to have given a free kick in that area

to the no campaign with this, if you don't know, vote no.

It's just so easy.

But I hate that that line, if you don't know, vote no,

is just so obvious the holes in it.

If you don't know, literally do some research.

That should be our approach.

It's like if you don't know, don't get vaccinated.

If you don't know, don't play.

Exactly.

It's just so stupid.

If you don't know, don't believe in climate change.

You don't know about life is complicated.

Things are complicated.

I mean, I agree with you, Mia.

You've got to fight fire with fire.

And I remember a really interesting Trump era episode

of, I don't know, something by Kara Swisher

where she's like, it's kind of really galling

that often the best slogans, the punchiest slogans

will come from people who you don't necessarily have

a lot of respect for.

Not that I'm saying necessarily in this context,

but because they're willing to go there

to the lowest common denominator, which is like,

don't do your research.

Don't find out about it.

Don't look at more who's got time, which is a truth.

But that's an absolute truth.

But it's like, if you're doing the Michelle Obama go high,

you're not going to go there.

You don't get to use those tactics.

It's really interesting.

My best is really silly and frivolous.

On Saturday night, I was home alone, which was a marvelous thing.

Well, my children were there, but they'd gone to bed

by this point.

Tuna, my dog and I were sitting on the couch

watching the September issue, which is an old...

It's 15 years old now, that documentary,

and it's about Vogue magazine.

And the thing that is amazing about it is it's only 15 years old

when you watch it with this lens.

It feels 200 years old.

Anna, would you stop it?

Is anyone coming to this run-through except me?

We're going to go!

I'm with the international renowned editor-in-chief

of American Vogue, Anna Wintour.

The single most important figure

in the $300 billion global fashion industry.

She is watching more closely than the movie stars

or the runway.

Oh, no!

You are so influential with the designers.

If we get behind something, it sells.

Because of Anna.

Oh, my God.

Anna is like Madonna.

Like, there was no social media.

They didn't have smartphones.

Anna Wintour's just sitting in the back of her, like, black limo

being taken from here to here, like, looking out of the window,

because she couldn't be on her phone doing emails.

Nobody had, like, filler and injectables.

Everybody looked sort of like the middle-aged women looked

like middle-aged women, and you were like,

oh, my God, where have those women gone?

It's really fun, frivolous.

I loved it.

It was a glimmer for me sitting on the couch

watching the September issue with Tuna.

Over to you, class Stevens.

My worst for the week.

And guys, I am so aware that I am a wingy,

negative person right now.

But I'm going to stay on that train because it's who I am.

It is my pregnancy brain.

And this is probably terrible for women

that I am even calling it pregnancy brain.

But I have stopped sleeping,

which is a lovely thing that happens for a lot of women

during pregnancy.

So I am just getting, like, a couple of hours a night.

I have tried a bunch of things for sleep,

and then, of course, you feel really guilty

that what you're taking is not good for the baby or whatever.

Are you uncomfortable or is it a mental thing?

So I realized last night what it was.

I laid in bed and I was like, I'm tired.

It's not that I feel awake.

And then I was like, I know this feeling.

It's panic.

Oh.

It's panic.

Yeah, we're on the verge of panicking.

Okay.

And so I think it's just a lot of emotional stuff.

But the fact I'm not sleeping means that my brain isn't working.

And I keep doing really, really strange things.

And I feel so sorry for everyone I interact with.

I did something really dope with our producer last night.

We had, like, this back and forth.

And then I had to just say, I'm so sorry.

I just wasted your time with me being an idiot.

But the thing I did this week was I was reading a book in the bath.

And I had, like, two chapters to go.

And then I put the book down and I thought, what a great book.

And I put it back in my bookcase.

And I went along with my night and I got into bed.

And I went, you didn't finish the book.

You don't know how the book ended.

Because you didn't actually finish it.

What an idiot.

And so I'm just...

I just remembered that you forgot.

I'm getting dopia and dopia.

I hear things come out of my mouth that is not correct.

And it's just very odd.

So I just apologise if you see me walking around in public

and I'm walking backwards and I...

Well, I think you've been holding it together pretty bloody well.

I have clothes inside out.

You really have.

I think a lot of it might be in your head, honestly.

But it's just very dopey.

But my best semi-related.

So we've moved into our new place.

And guys, I'm nesting.

And I've never been good.

I'm terrible at things like interior design.

But I got Jessie's help.

And spending time on Facebook Marketplace.

I mean, Rory, do walkthroughs of our house

and be like, what should we do with this space?

Do we think a lamp should go there?

Do we think a little piece of furniture?

And being able to nest and actually feel like this is a home

rather than just because we've always still renting.

But because everything's been temporary,

I've never actually invested in the space where I live.

It's also psychological.

It is also about when we are pregnant, nature makes you want to have little moments

and buy flowers and put them in vases.

Exactly. I've got flowers.

I have new linen.

It's soft.

Soft things on surfaces.

New towels, new candles.

My bank account is looking absolutely appalling.

But my home is looking quite cozy.

My worst of the week.

I know I said that it was piggybacked on Holly's,

but my other worst of the week, which I will surface,

is that the new season of But Are You Happy is back.

It's not my worst because it's back because I love that show.

It's the podcast that Claire hosts,

where she talks to people who look like they have it all,

but in actual fact, they don't.

Spoiler alert.

But for this first episode, I love what you do.

It's episode zero of the season.

You do something about yourself that sort of sets the table

of the themes for the season,

and it's about your own vulnerability

because you ask your guests to be vulnerable,

so you pay it forward and you're vulnerable yourself.

And what you did in this episode zero was that you read

the meanest things that you could find on the internet

about yourself that have been said.

I know.

You didn't just stew in them.

You did have a psychologist who was amazing,

who sort of talked through which of them you found,

particularly hard and which you didn't.

I felt very protective hearing you doing that,

and I wanted to ask you, you're not prepared for this,

why you wanted to do that?

Because in a lot of the episodes this season,

I talk to public figures about the things they've read

about themselves, heard about themselves,

what hurts, what doesn't.

And I sort of thought, I'm asking them a question

that I've never interrogated myself.

And my point also was that, you know,

I'm interviewing Maddie J and Laura Henshaw

and these people who have, you know,

hundreds and thousands of Instagram followers

and huge followings, and so what they're dealing with

is in a certain stratosphere, but actually all of us

from the moment we interacted with other people,

we have to work out what to do with what people think of us,

and I've never known how to deal with that.

What you're meant to take on, what you're meant to leave,

what to pay attention to, like I've never been able

to comprehend that people don't like me

or that people are talking about me badly,

and that's what I wanted to talk to the psychologist about,

was to kind of face my biggest fear and then say,

how are you meant to live when you know

people are saying the stuff about you?

Because you have to.

Yeah, I know, I understand.

It was a really interesting episode,

and I think out loud as I think what we might do

is put it through this feed.

I mean, by all means, please go and subscribe too,

but are you happy?

Next week we might pop it through this feed

because it's just so good,

but I didn't like it and I felt sad,

I felt upset, I wanted to protect you from you

and from those mean people.

Darling girl.

My best is very basic.

Lots of people who are on HRT might know

that there is a shortage,

a worldwide shortage of HRT,

which is good news in that more and more women

are getting the help that they require

with perimenopause and menopause.

I've been on patches for a year or two now, I think.

Anyway, my patches ran out and I panicked

and so I went to see my doctor,

a fantastic doctor and out louder, Nicole,

and she said, well, there's no patches everywhere,

there's a global shortage,

but you could just use a different delivery mechanism,

which is a gel.

So you have this gel and you have a pump or two pumps,

whatever it is,

and you rub it on the inside of your upper arms.

So I tried that for a couple of days,

but that was just a bit annoying

because the patches, the ones I was using,

you just put one on every four days.

The gel, it's just a bit messy and then I'd forget

and I don't know if it was workings,

I was feeling a bit weepy.

Anyway, I went back to see Nicole and I said,

is just there another form of patch?

And indeed there is.

And so I got a script,

I managed to find it in stock somewhere

and now I've got my once a week patch

with a different brand name.

It's better.

What does it do?

It's estrogen for me.

That's what I...

So I've got the progesterone.

You need both.

I'm not a doctor.

I talk to your doctor,

not giving medical advice,

but it's about putting back the hormones

that naturally deplete as you get older,

which are basically estrogen progesterone.

And so, yeah, I'm happy.

I've got new patches.

Good to go.

The one thing I would say, dear science,

could you please, I know you're busy trying to cure cancer

and stuff and please don't take any time away from that.

But like on your coffee break or something,

could you find a way to not have the patches leave the residue

in a ring all over the skin?

Yeah.

Because it's annoying.

Anyway, just to mine a detail.

Thanks, science.

Claire Stevens,

you have a quick recommendation for us before we go.

I do.

So I am one of those people who is really bad with names

and I hate saying that because it's a cop out

and it is purely about laziness.

I'm not going to pretend

that it is anything other than laziness.

I don't think it's laziness.

I think that there are some people who are visual people

who are good with faces.

I'm very good with faces.

Other people who are good with names.

Some people who are good with dates.

But what it is, is that I wasn't listening

when you first said your name.

I wasn't listening.

And the reason I wasn't listening is because

I was socially anxious about meeting a new person.

So I'm quite good when I absorb names like passively.

Like I would know the name of everybody in this office

because you just kind of pick it up day to day.

But it's more when you're in a social situation.

Someone introduces themselves and two seconds later

I'm like, well, whatever you said wasn't going into my head

and now I have to introduce you to someone else

and I can't do that.

So Comedian Dane Cook who's a little bit controversial

but putting that aside, he has a hack.

I came across it and while I'm not following it entirely

I've made my own version.

I enjoy the premise.

Here's what he said.

If you cannot remember people's names when you meet them

watch this.

I got you covered.

This always works.

When the person introduces themselves

take the first letter of their first name

and immediately picture killing them with an item

that starts with the same letter.

Whatever you're going to kill them with

picture an area or an injury that also starts with that letter.

So it goes like this, ready?

I'm Dane Natalie.

Nice to meet you.

You meet Natalie.

You think to yourself nail gun to the neck Natalie.

You'll visualize it.

You'll never forget the name.

Oh my God.

That's so much.

That's full on.

No, because I then remembered that whenever I tried

to memorize something at school or uni,

I used a literation or would remember a word

and each letter of that word stood for something.

Can we do a less violent version?

Yes, I have a less violent version.

I have a PG version.

But what all you need is like a little way for you

to focus for a second and associate it.

The way the brain works is that once you've got

a few associations with that name, it's embedded in you.

So mine way more PG.

It's just that I'm like, okay, a person and I'm saying

that they went somewhere with someone or doing something

that's also with that letter.

So Mia, Mia went to Marrakesh with her mom.

That would not help me remember anything.

Because I feel like I forget when Mia went with someone,

that lady.

I'd be like, hi, Marrakesh.

No, no.

Giving yourself that moment.

I've now got two associations with Mia.

It's very clever.

Holly went to Holland with her hamster.

Like, boom, got it.

Holly, never remembered your name before now.

And now I know that you're Holly.

I don't think it's going to work.

But I implore out louders to try it over the weekend

and tell me if it works.

I wonder what the theory behind it is.

Is it just that what you say is that having a couple

of associations or is it just pausing to consciously

file that name carefully?

It's both.

And I remember when I was studying, there's a rule

about like, you have to ingest a piece of information

like three different ways in order to remember it.

So if I am being like, Mia, Mia went to Marrakesh.

Mia went with her mom.

Mia went to Marrakesh with her mom.

Then that has embedded it in my brain.

I will never forget it.

I would also love to hear from out louders little hacks

you have for just being like these bloody social butterflies.

People really socially intelligent.

People repeat your name.

So you say, hi, I'm Claire.

And they say, hi, Claire.

That's good.

But the hack I need is how to ask someone their name

when you have met them many times, but you don't know it.

That's the hack I need because there are lots of people

in my life who I might know, you know, acquaintances,

whether it's school moms, whether it's people at work,

but I don't have much to do with them who you can't ask them

their name anymore because you know them too well,

but you don't know what their name is.

And I've never found a polite way of doing that

because people get really offended, including me,

when you go, I'm really sorry I've forgotten your name.

Then I'm like, well, I was not very interesting to you.

There's no polite way to do it.

You just have to move away and meet new people.

If you're looking for something else to listen to today,

we had a lot of thoughts.

It was the last episode of In Just Like That.

We've done our final subscriber episode about it.

I was going to make it both my best and my worst

because all my worst is the show,

but my worst is also that the show's over.

I feel just so complicated about this show.

So strong opinions loosely held.

There's a link in the show notes if you want to recap

of Just Like That.

We have a very neggy relationship with that show.

Listen, before we go today,

someone in the Mamma Mia family is leaving work today

because they're going off to have a baby, like many,

like many, many of my colleagues at Mamma Mia at the moment

in their baby season.

And that is our amazing head of podcast, Eliza Ratliff.

Now, all of us have worked with Liza

in different capacities for many, many years.

Liza's worked with Mia since she was an intern,

probably in her late teens, I'd imagine.

And now she's a married woman

who's been running a podcast department.

She's going off to have a baby.

Like it is mind boggling.

And we just want to send our love and appreciation to our Liza.

I know that all the out louders will want to do that too.

We are so happy and excited for you.

Another little girl for the Mamma Mia crew, Mia.

I know. We're just doing second gen of Mamma Mia.

I saw Liza today.

I walked in and saw her and it's her last day in the office

and I started crying.

I feel really emotional.

I know Liza, as you say, hasn't she started here as an intern?

I've seen her become the absolute powerhouse that she is.

She's instrumental to this show.

She was the producer and then executive producer

of this show has been for many, many years.

She's been my producer on No Filter pretty much since it started.

I think since it started.

And yeah, she's like a part of my brain.

She's a corporate memory here.

She knows everything.

She remembers everything.

We're so excited to see this next phase of her.

And it's also what she's always injected into our company

and into this show is Liza is from Barbara.

She is a country girl at heart and not just at heart, but in life.

And she always just reminds us that not everybody lives in the city,

that there's a lot of different experiences out there.

And she's made us better at what we do.

And we are so influenced by everything that she's taught us.

So we wish you well, Liza.

I mean, you know, you can't go anywhere as if you can never leave.

She's just a genius.

And if you've ever loved a Mamma Mia podcast,

that's why they leave us.

You love Liza.

Even today she was solving problems we could definitely not solve.

We cannot wait to meet Liza's beautiful baby girl.

She's one of our favorite people as well.

One of our colleagues and she's just absolutely brilliant.

So we'll miss you lots and lots, Liza.

Thank you so much for listening to Australia's number one news and pop culture show.

This episode was produced by Emily and Gazillas.

The assistant producer is Tali Blackman

and there's been audio production from Leah Porges

and we'll see you next week.

Goodbye.

Bye.

Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening.

If you love the show and want to support us,

subscribing to Mamma Mia is the best way to do so.

There's a link in the episode description.

Thank you.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.