Between Two Beers Podcast: Jemarl Paerata: Finding Purpose After Hitting Rock Bottom (Lowkey Legend)

On this episode of Between Two Beers, we talk to Jamal Pairata.

Jamal was the inspiration for starting our low-key legend series.

I heard him speak during a presentation at Dave Wood's Calm Under Pressure workshop

earlier this year, and was immediately captivated and knew we had to get him in for a chat.

These days, Jamal is a motivational mentor and the founder of Te Kai Arahi, where he

inspires people to reach their full potential, based on Te Omori principles and connecting

back to nature.

But his journey there has been one hell of a ride.

In this episode, we talk about why his dad was sentenced to 30 years at the Bangkok Hilton

in 1991, and how he tried to get him out.

His 20-year career as a professional firefighter and the trauma and darkness associated with

the job, his relationship with alcohol, hitting rock bottom and how he pulled himself out

of his hole, discovering his purpose, starting his own business and realising his vision.

Jamal is just at the start of his journey helping and building community, but his story

is one that needs to be heard.

Listen on iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts from, or watch the video on YouTube,

and follow us on Insta and TikTok to see the best video clips from each app.

This episode was brought to you from the Export Bear Garden Studio.

Enjoy!

Jamal Paerata, welcome to Between Two Bears.

Kia ora brothers, it's an absolute honour and a privilege to be here.

I'm excited, so thank you for the opportunity.

We are super excited to have you in the Export Bear Garden Studio.

You've got a hell of a story to tell brother, are you excited for it?

I'm really excited, I've been thinking about it for a couple of days and watching some

old episodes and you know, you've had a lot of amazing guests on here and I've been inspired

and that's what I love about these podcasts, especially yours, is that you can hear people's

stories and get inspired and so that's, hopefully after my talk I can, there's one person out

there that can be inspired by my story, then you know, that's why I'm here.

You've got a very excited person sitting over here who hasn't had the privilege yet of hearing

some of your story, Stephen speaks so highly of you, so you, like for me, a really anticipated

guest so I can't wait to crack into it.

Thank you.

So in February we had a guest called Dave Wood who is among other things, Israel Adesanya's

Breathing and Mindset Coach.

If you haven't already, go and listen to that podcast after you finish this, it's one of

the best we've ever done but after having him on the pod, it set off a chain of reactions

which led to Jamal being here today.

But I actually want to start by talking about Dave, there's so much love out there for

him in between two beers land, can you talk about the epic growth in his calm under pressure

workshop and also his business since he was on here in February?

Yeah well you know, I've known Dave for a long time and when he first got started with

his business, he was a full time paramedic.

My son actually who is a professional surfer and travels the world surfing, used to go

to Dave and get some training so we've had a pretty long relationship and you know I

live right next to his parents, he's got an amazing father who's a legend in his own

right and just to watch Dave how he set up his business and you know he's helped a lot

of people and he's grown it to what it is today, it's just amazing what he's done and

he's helped a lot of people, he's extremely driven and it hasn't been easy but he's had

a vision and he's just followed his heart and I feel extremely privileged to be involved

with what he's creating and yeah, since the podcast in February we've just been inundated

and I've just got back from Indonesia, we've had three calm under pressures, we're going

to have to book another one in December and the podcast has just absolutely catapulted

them in some ways and we've got people coming from overseas and look the next 12 months

are going to be really interesting and there's going to be a lot of growth there and I'm

just excited, I'm just really excited, really grateful to be a part of what he's created

for the community as well you know like he helps a lot of people out there and we're

all proud of him and yeah it's just an epic, epic story.

I can't wait for those royalties, those finest verses.

Surely, yeah there's a lot of it coming your way for sure.

The response to that pod was a real moment for us and I think it's when we first realised

the power of our platform because Dave was a guest who came on and I think the majority

of the audience wouldn't have known who he was by name but it's been one of our most

popular episodes and it just transcended everything, it was just people shared it and people got

so much from it and people went to the workshop because of it and I was one of them so I got

invited along to go to Piha and spent two days with you and Dave out there and like

you said it was a really surreal experience meeting people in the park and a lot before

and they were sort of like oh where are you from, how'd you find out about it, I listened

to this podcast bro, between two views, oh yeah man, that was my podcast, it's like wow.

But that's when I met you and so this workshop is, it's part breathing, it's part mobility,

it's part reconnecting with nature, it's part stress mitigation and understanding our nervous

system but it's also part storytelling and Jamal led the Karakir on the first day, he

helped facilitate a lot of the group conversations where a real sense of community developed

really quickly, mostly through vulnerability and then on the second day Jamal spoke and

he did about a 30 minute talk which moved me greatly and everyone else that was in the

room, it was full of emotion, rich storytelling and I knew before you'd finished that we needed

to get you on the show and to be honest you were the catalyst for this low key legends series,

we've got guys with epic stories which are going to be so helpful to people and perhaps not with

the same profile yet but who knows for this platform we might make that work but yeah

in a weekend of powerful moments that was what stood out to me as being perhaps the most

powerful and I wanted to start by asking you about telling your story well and the art of

storytelling, how important it is for you to be able to tell your story and capture people's

emotions? Well you know we're Māori and storytelling is a massive part of who we are and how we

pass down knowledge and there's some great stories out there that you know that I love

listening to as a child and with a lot of the stories there's deeper meanings and morals to

those stories so the power of the story has been something that I've always been interested in

and hey we all love a good story that's what this podcast is about. I when I decided that I wanted

to you know uplift my life and change as a person I started investing in myself and started doing

workshops to try and get better and one of the workshops I did was with a guy called Donald

Miller, a business made simple because I was interested in this kind of stuff and it's all

around storytelling and everyone's got a story and with business you know there's always a hero

and the hero has a problem and the hero meets a guide and the guide helps him to solve that

problem you know you look at Star Wars, Karate Kid, it's all pretty much follows a similar

formula so I got really interested in storytelling and stories and I thought about my story how I

could help people and yeah I just had it in my mind that if I can tell my story and uplift

just one person and I always talk about that just one person then I'm happy to put myself out here

I'm happy to share be vulnerable because I know like like you said I'm just an average person

who's had an average life a really nice one but I made some big changes around my values and my

principles and my life has changed completely you know so that's why we're here today to talk a

little bit about that but in the back of my mind it's how can I help people well I've got a story

you know and the thing that I tell the Rangatahi that I work with is that everyone including myself

loves a story of adversity where someone messed up or someone had struggles and that overcame it

and they went on to do great things so from this moment on whatever's happened in the past

we have that opportunity to rewrite the end of the story so you know with these kids that have

had hardships and struggles and not just the Rangatahi just anyone that you have a you can

collect yourself and you can create a positive ending to this you've got a great start you know

if you've had trouble and hardships and not everyone has but if you have then you've got a great

start to a story and it's and you have the opportunity to finish that story and so you

know that's what I'm hoping with my story that um it's only just started and there's a lot to do

and uh yeah I'm creating my own my own ending if you guys don't mind I might just sit

and just listen to you no no not at all don't apologize because it's so captivating so so early

and I often say this at the end of podcasts is when I found myself sat and listening are the

ones that I enjoy the most and if this first 15 minutes is anything to go by I'm gonna absolutely

enjoy it so I'll try and chime in every now and again with with a question but I'll maybe

control yourself bro I'll leave the guidance to Stephen and I'll just indulge myself in this

keep an eye on me I can tend to go off and no this is your platform and your story to tell so please

we'll be right back after this short break

all right I'm gonna start with some words from Dave so we went to Dave and said you know give us

give us some insights on Jamal and he sent us some pretty incredible voice messages I'm gonna

break it down to some of the key points he said Jamal is an integral part of the workshop

and I couldn't run it without him he brings the sense of calm he's a very approachable guy

and people can feel it but there's also this fierceness in there due to his upbringing he's

been through the fire and I fucking like that and you can see both but it's all controlled

he gives this talk on the workshop and it really impacts people it is impact because of what he

had to go through to get where he is now and it's one hell of a story where he's at now is he just

wants to help people but you can't help people unless you help yourself first and the thing I

like about Jamal is he's done the deep work he's done the self-reflection to do that you have to

be vulnerable and dig deep below the surface and he's done that and after doing that you have to

have a really good idea you have a really good idea of who you actually are or who you want to be

and he's on a real journey his story resonates with people because it's so relatable to achieve

what he's achieved in a small space of time you have to have incredible self-belief and courage

and what he's built and building is outstanding pretty awesome words from Dave enough teasing

of the story I sort of want to get into it by um it's a hell of a trailer for a story that's coming

up yeah um tell us about yeah bring I think probably the best place to start tell us about

your family and your connection to PR um so look I I'm I'm a Manuhiri there visitor sort of thing

I was brought up in near Te Aomutu in a little village called Waikiria and my father was a

prison officer so I had a pretty nice upbringing you know I had had had a really nice family you

know there were some arguments my father you know everyone says this about their fathers but my

father was tough you know my father's a hard man my father went to Vietnam he was brought up in a

big family and you know you just got the sense that that he he was very tough and I knew that from

a young age and I heard rumors of that so yeah my dad went to Vietnam he signed up he volunteered

because he wanted a big OE he jokes about that but you know I think something in him really just

wanted to get away and and experience the world but he came back and became a prison officer and

in Waikiria there was a little village and all the prison officers families lived there so he had

a tennis court rugby grounds around 1973 when I was born long time ago there was a lot of boys

that were born that year so we used to have this village and we used to have free rain and so unlike

now like our parents had trouble keeping us inside and we used to just run around we'd go

ealing we'd go swimming we'd just roam in the bush and it was a really really happy time and

um yeah I can't we had our own personal problems as a family like anyone but I didn't really have

like a any hardship in my life when I was a kid growing up it was it was quite pleasant to be honest

yeah and then things changed when you were 17 well what happened was I I went to boarding school

I was there for a couple of years and so what I want to kind of stress is that like

along the way I started picking up some habits of behavior some thought patterns you know there's

these there's all kinds of patterns that you have and while I was at boarding school you know there

was a little bit of hitting that went on and it wasn't the best way to get get the best out of me

and so with that came resentment and so I started resenting people and I started blaming you know

I missed out on a rugby team and I thought you know that I should have got in it and so I used

to hold this resentment inside myself and it kind of followed me um through my life on reflection

when I think about that school there were so many good things you know the tikanga Maori that rugby

and on reflection of my story I actually left that school really resilient you know I was really

strong I could handle myself um just one story I I think while I was at Tipenea you know because I

had a had a tough father I knew the tough attitude but I wasn't tough you know and the boys at Tipenea

were tough they were strong and um I ended up getting into a fight as you do and I got a hiding

in front of everyone you know and from one of my good friends and that was humbling for me not

only did I get a hiding and I didn't I didn't perform very well I got it in front of everyone

and everyone saw it and so that stuck with me as well and I kind of held on to that as I as I moved

through my life but on reflection I realized how good that school was actually for me like some of

it wasn't good the hitting and the bullying and stuff like that but I was resilient I was tough

I went through a period of self-destruction in my life and um you know I never ever got another

hiding like that and you know I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing but it taught

me morals it taught me respect it taught me a lot of a lot of really cool things and when I finally

drop resentment uh I some really cool things have happened and I'll talk about that a little later

while I was in boarding school my parents decided to shift to Australia and said you know do you

want to come to Australia or you can carry on at boarding school and I'd been there for two years

coming up to my third year I decided to shift to Australia with my parents um while we were there

you know things didn't go well uh my parents broke up my mum came home so you know you can see

things are starting to unravel for me having a nice time and now I've started to have a bit of

conflict my mum's left uh broken home staying over there with my dad but my dad was my hero

and I love my dad and I was playing rugby I had a leg I had a job

I left school I had nothing the first thing I did is I went to the second hand store bought a lawn mower

and I had I had a car I bought a lawn mower and a weed eater and I just went around and started

mowing lawns I'd mow like three or four lawns in the morning by about two in the afternoon I'd have

150 bucks and then I'd just go surfing it's not not such a bad existence right no and I was always

kind of entrepreneurial you know I was always survivor and I always knew the value of money so

we were there for you know a good three years and about a year and a half it was just myself and my

dad and then my father said to me look do you want to go back to New Zealand for Christmas I'll get

your ticket and so I was just jumped at it you know I was surfing went back to my mum lived in

Taranaki where my family are great surf so I came back for for Christmas surf caught up with my

family and then one day when I came back from the coast surfing I got back to the house and I walked

in and I looked around I was like someone's died you know it's straight away you can feel that and

I said what's happened you know why why who who's died and they said it's your father

and straight away I thought he'd been in a car accident or something and I was like okay this

is pretty heavy and then they said he's been detained at Bangkok Airport and he's been arrested for

you know trying to smuggle drugs out of there we don't know where he is but he's in a lot of

trouble and yeah and that's when you know like my world came apart and and I was just shocked I

couldn't I didn't know how to handle my emotions at that stage I just had anger and you know the

resentment and yeah it was a really tough time for our family it was really full on

so your dad is sort of an upstanding member of society um prison officer for 15 this year

you got that right um former soldier and a poet um unblemished rec criminal record yes this comes

as a huge shock you find out that he's been um trying to smuggle heroin through Bangkok Airport

425 grams which is punishable by 30 year prison sentence did you I mean you've

just had so many questions like do you have answers of what was going on look yeah my dad was at a

midlife as well you know and he was struggling and you know luckily we know a lot of things that

can help us now that he didn't have access to and he wanted to I think he wanted to get a house

and try and sort his life out and he was struggling uh we were I come from a culture of really big

drinkers and so that was a big part big scene he had friends from Vietnam that were over there and

I think you know I haven't really talked to him about the details of what went down but at the

core of it I think he was really struggling his family had broken up and I know what that's like

and he wanted you know a better future and unfortunately he went down that path and uh

yeah he ended up in prison and for quite some time he was looking down at maybe the death penalty

so if if you're of a certain age there's a term hotel Bangkok which has particular connotations

which I believe is where your father was yes so like I remember growing up so I'm about 10

years younger than you and I remember growing up and it was referenced on tv it was referenced in

tv shows and it was portrayed as like the worst of the worst place that you would want to end up

without telling your story did you get an opportunity to to visit those conditions

or get a chance to see him while he was there yes yeah we did we went over and visited him

I want to look my father is so tough that not once did he complain you know not once did he

send us any sort of um feel sorry for me letters or anything like that he took it on the chin and

I'm sure he had his own struggles at the time because contextually it's still a letters time

it's a letters time it's not letters we didn't it's not a facebook it's nothing like that is it

no it's letters and we've got a lot of letters there he's a great writer he's very well read

you know he's a poet and he's uh yeah he was very resilient as well and we ended up going over there

what we did is you know when I met Mal she she said look I can get him out and just

so you know Mal's an investigative journalist Melanie read Melanie read yeah and so you know

if early on when I met her she said look I can get him out and the truth of it is you know like

she did so much on her own we put together a documentary when I say we she put together

a documentary and part of that was we flew up to Bangkok and we went and visited my father

and we smuggled some cameras in there for the documentary with my son oh and we we basically

had a pram and we filled it with about five cameras and so when we got to the x-ray machine

we pulled the cameras out gave them to them and then we had like a tally tubby with a little hidden

camera and we folded up the pram pushed it over here they kept all the cameras and they put our

bags through the x-ray and so then when we got to the other side we opened the pram put the tally

tubby up on top of the pram just unzip that press record and then push the push the pram along and

just videoed everything just pause there like that is amazing story did you think through the

consequences that might have been there should you have been caught yeah we we we did uh we we

thought them through I don't know if you've met Mal but she's a extremely you know courageous person

and and she's very driven and you know I had full total belief in what we were doing and there was

some risk oh yeah there was there and the consequences could have been quite bad

but we wanted to get my father out and we came from we felt at that time that he had done enough

time in there it was about he was up around about eight years heading towards 10 and yes he deserved

to be punished and no one no one ever we never ever questioned that but we thought you know 10 years

would probably be enough in that prison and he'd fought for his country some things happened in

Vietnam that went too good and that that plagued him as well so that contributed to to why he did

what he did and um yeah we we saw my dad and it was emotional and he came out of the cage and

he just was he just didn't he didn't look phased he looked straight he looked he did look very tough

and he he he he there was no fear in his eyes and when he came out he was pretty pretty strong

was it different to how you had remembered him yeah yeah there was a change there was was the

purpose of getting the cameras in to expose the conditions of the jail and get him out what was

the thinking behind it okay so the the documentary was he he'd had some trouble in in Vietnam and

there was another documentary about that and in a nutshell he they were crossing a river someone

got shot and they tried to cover it up and that that affected all of them and so they had a big

part to play for all of them actually they all had trouble they'd all gone down this road that

that wasn't good and so we wanted to show that he'd done his time this is what had happened to him

we've got this documentary here's the conditions he's in and we didn't we came back Mel didn't

finish the documentary but there was a letter sent and said look we're looking for a king's pardon

we need the prime minister to to put a signature on this and depending on whether we get the

signature or not we'll kind of dictate how the documentary ends

did you get the signature yeah wow yeah we did and and got him out so you get a 10 years later

you get him out and i'm gonna move us along because there's so much to come this way i feel

like we could be here for 30 minutes i got so many questions but um you get him out it's had this

effect on you already and what do you do personally because you you run away to the chatom island

yeah well after he got arrested i couldn't go back to australia so yeah i my mum was born on the

chatom islands so at about 18 19 and i was i was just in self-destruct mode i was really angry i had

a real fuck you attitude towards the world you know i didn't really care about myself yeah i was

wanting to disrupt i wanted it and i couldn't cope with people talking about it i couldn't

talk about it myself and i got an opportunity to go to the chatom islands and and i took it

and i took it and i went and lived down there with my family and i loved it i loved living there

and i loved uh everything about it i got job on on fishing boats and dive boats no one really

knew my story you know and uh it was an amazing time of my life and that's where i met mal as well

so yeah i ran away down there um fast forward i had a job in the when my dad came home i was

working in the film industry we were living at piha and uh he came home and he he moved in

we got a little sleep out and he came home and he lived in the sleep out at piha so you know the

it was an amazing time it felt a lot of release for me my son was probably about five then four or

five and yeah he came and lived with us and and you know that's a story in itself to getting here

but there was some big changes but we got him home and that was the main thing so link us up to

firefighting because you did near close on 20 years in the fire surface and as you're telling

your story i'm thinking of this limit similarities with dave intensive care paramedic you're in the

fire service and now you're in these totally different careers but i want to hang out in the

fire for a bit because we've got a few questions about what life was like there like what was your

experience as a firefight quite often my questions all surround like what i've seen on the small

screen is my reference point for what the reality of a firefighter must look like which is entering

burning building saving people putting fires out and being a hero i imagine that's a very small

percentage of what the reality of a professional firefighters life is like well for a start you

any firefighter will will just cringe at the word hero you know they don't i don't think that's what

most firefighters don't want that word associated with them it's a team effort obviously but look

i i worked in the film industry for about seven or eight years you know on a bit of a tear and

then i decided look the fire service i had a friend that was in there i liked the hours i

wanted to surf more it was a bit more stable and um yeah i got into the fire service and i loved it

you know like all jobs that i've done i i i love them and i when i first joined it was it was an

eye and in the first five years you learn so much but that job i met the leaders that i had the

organization the brotherhood the sisterhood i can't say anything bad about that job and the job that

they do and a big shout out to all of them and everyone in emergency services that do an incredible

job out there every day and to answer your question you know the the life of a firefighter yeah it's

not all about kicking down doors and bursting into to burning buildings and cutting people out of

cars a massive big part of it is cohabitating on a fire station you know that's huge you know you

have to be able to do that you have to be able to get on with people and you have to be able to

play your role and do your part the thing i liked about the fire services everyone does have a role

and everyone has a procedure you know there's a procedure written out there so any incident you

go to you know your role this is what you do you do this this this this and you know in the middle

of chaos and you've got structure and it's all written out there you can just revert straight

back to your procedure okay my job is seeing safety i need to do this i need to get these cones out

i need to get this door off you know we need extra great and i really i really did love it and

yeah like i said it gave me a lot and it's built me into the person i am today was was that

role that metaphor of having structure and chaos did the fire service role give you structure

in a life that had been chaos it did it did it gave me uh you know like we did two days on two

nights um and then four days off so we had a had a had a four day swing if you like

and i had to be there you know every every um fourth day i'd have to be at work and you know

you rock up you have your routine and so i got a routine and you know when you do it for that

that amount of time it just becomes clockwork and i needed that i needed that to stop me and it kept

me kept me quite level even though i you know i had four days off to to do other things and and

you know like i said i've always been a heavy drinker and reverted to that what's interesting

is that i started picking up some more bad habits and you know patterns dealing with trauma when i

joined man you don't you didn't get vulnerable or anything you're like you would go to a we go to

something traumatic it's like if you're not over it by the time you get back to the truck by the

time we get back to station you know it's gone and so that's how i used to deal with it and we

used to deal with it um with a lot of black humor between ourselves because it's heavy man it's

heavy it's heavy stuff and when you dive deep into it and when you really think about what just

happened in that incident when you get back you could be dwelling on that for a long time and

it does nothing so for me i'd get it and i'd just go boom put it to the back of my head get it put

it to the back of my head just you know try and suppress it really has that changed now do they

have better capacities for dealing with trauma they do they do and they have a lot of therapists

and the like that you can go to they have a number you can call i mean the best therapy for me

was sitting around the smoko table that's when we do our therapy that's when we talk that's when

everyone knows their role and and and you know you learn from the older guys about about um

about how to deal with some of the stuff and there were times when we'd be on station and we

wouldn't be vulnerable but it was pretty tough because you know firefighting you need to be

courageous you need to people are counting on us to come and save the day you have to be strong and

also in a station at the station you can't be too vulnerable you'll get eaten up you know you will

and and this goes for a lot of people out there they're in survival mode and and to be vulnerable

it can be detrimental to to their to to their lifestyle you know they could just get eaten up

and and that could have a whole lot of different uh consequences there's a real parallels to

Detective Inspector Scott Beard as well for 40 years in the police service of being a teenager

when he first started investigated his first murder through to where he is now and speaking

of the support structures that are now put in place to support those people that are in those

emergency services because it's your first responder yes generally first on the scene

yeah yeah we're right and then the role you know it's fire and emergency in New Zealand I always

like fire service because that's how I you know that's how I identify it but the role has got bigger

because you know with the with the fire safety there's not a hell of a lot of fires like there

used to be because we got good at that and we've educated everyone but so the roles had to grow

and so there's a lot of cardiac arrests and we're doing a lot of that first responder

work and so that changes the whole dynamics of everything once we started doing more cardiac

arrests all of a sudden we just went from doing them occasionally to doing them just about every

time we're at work and it got heavy for a lot of people you know so yeah they have got a lot of

tools and they have got a lot of help there if you need it a lot better than they used to

across nearly 20 years you must have experienced a lot of different leaders I'm assuming you were

in a position as a leader yourself what did you learn about leader like were there some some parts

of that that you're taking with you now what did you learn about leadership oh a hundred percent and

you know good leadership for me is built around trust you know you have to know your job extremely

well but for me the leaders that that I connected with the most were the ones that really cared

about me and that had my back and that no matter no matter what they were they had me and when you

give me that I'll do anything for you you know I don't you know like some leaders try and force

people to follow them you know and they try and do things that kind of for me I just if you if you

show me trust and you care about me I'll I'll do anything you know I don't I'll follow you because

I want to not because I'm being forced and so I had an amazing leader called Mike King

just an amazing man and yeah one of the true mentors in my life and he was cool calm and

collected firstly just never saw him frazzled at all we'd be at like a massive building on fire

people everywhere and I'd say oh look they need a hand with the aerial and he'd just look at me

real calmly he goes well we'll just do one job at a time you know and just sort of just calm

you right down and we'd walk and he and I learned so much often but but the the key thing that he

he did for me is he always had my back you know whatever happened he always had the crew first

and so I've taken that into my own life and I've never been one to use power to try and you know

because of my what happened at to me when I was at school I think bullying is a big problem in

New Zealand and I've never been like that I don't think you have to I think a good leader doesn't

have to go there put people down make them feel insecure show them that the superior you know

a good leader just has that trust communication and and has got your back and yeah we'll be right

back after this short break you told me a story um about the trauma and we kind of touched on it

there but I mean you're you're surrounded by death a lot there was one instance I think you said that

you were sort of cutting people out of a car at 4 a.m. and then having breakfast with your family at

7 a.m. like how do you reflect back on on that time well like I said you know I would put all the

stuff in the back of my head and just lock it away and and sooner or later you run out of room

I was going to say when does it when does it and how does it manifest it's when does it

burst out well this particular incident we're talking about we went to a car accident and like

war stories I don't really like too many war stories but there was a lot of people there was

one fatality they were all stuck in the car there was three others in the car and it was it was like

a wall zone and so we we it was a real technical cut out and it took a while and we had to get

another rescue tender and it took a while and it and it it affected me in a big way and I mean we

by the time we when we cleaned up and we jumped in the truck none of us we just went it was just

silent and no one could talk because it was so full on it was probably the most full on one I'd

ever been to and there was some heavy metal on and the driver just turned it up and it was just

something like back in black and everyone just started going started head banging on the way

back in this fire engine you know like because we're so hyped up but the next day you know I

got a got another call and I think it was we were going to maybe it was a child trapped in a car and

the anxiety that I had I was like I don't think I can do this I started questioning myself and I

started rare just I just did not want to be there and I was I could feel myself and I've never

I'd never really had that before and I just it just I don't know that's when I really started

thinking hey this is probably affecting me a little bit more than I like to like to think

and then when I was going to all the cardiac arrests that's you know man that's heavy that's

heavy you're in that you're in the living room with a family you know it's there's some pretty

spiritual stuff going on and and and I didn't really cope with it that well and I started

with personal life as well wasn't going too well and you know I had to go get some help and some

counseling but before you did that what were your coping mechanisms I try and make fun of it

yeah I try and just crack jokes I try and forget about it like as quick as I could I never

dwelled on it I'd never you can't you know but it was unhealthy what I was doing it was unhealthy

and I used to drink yeah the drink helped me the drink the drink the drink was my go-to for anything

you know bottling things up and then opening a bottle then opening a bottle that was my

coping mechanism to just about everything and running away yeah when you gave the talk

in the come under pressure workshop you sort of picked it up from this point and I'm hoping we

can do the same now from the outside looking in it looked like you were a guy that had it all

you know you were working for the fire service you had the family your son was a professional

surfer and you were sort of following around the world some days on some days off it looked

like you had it but inside it was all starting to fall apart and this is where the story gets

really good because we're going to talk about how you got out of it and where you're at now

but can you take us to that point where you realize things had to change

you know I guess things started getting really hard about 10 years ago when I when we had a

split up you know Mel and I decided you know mostly from my own doing yeah I broke the family up

basically and that was really tough and I I would go to work and I was going to tell every

you know my crew that I've we've had a marriage break up and every day we I'd go in there would

sit down we'd get dinner ready and I was you know working out how I was going to say it and I was

building up the courage and we'd get there and I'd always get to that moment and I just couldn't do

and I didn't for months and I was just holding on to this stuff and I did like I've got this thing

where I just run from from my problems and surfing has always been there for me and so

I ended up just running around the world basically surfing drinking heavily running from myself I was

looking for all this external stuff to make me happy internally I was an absolute mess I would

finish work I'd do these long shifts I'd hardly have any sleep I'd get really drunk and I'd just

stay in my cabin and I couldn't come out and I was ashamed of who I'd become and what I'd created

and the relationships I was having not just at home but at work and with my friends we're starting

to disintegrate because of my behaviour and things were just really tough I I did this thing

where I did three months on three months off and I'd go away with Elliot we'd go to a couple of

comps and then I'd go and just get on these benders you know and I'd come back from three months

straight back to the fire station straight onto the truck just punch out 24-hour shifts

and just go for it and just running from myself basically and just never even stopping for a

moment it was all go you know just you get addictive to their up-regulated state of stress

you know I liked it I wanted to be there and it stopped me from going over here and reflecting

that's so and what you're saying just hits me so hard because I feel some similarities

never been a first responder or anything like that but that notion of running away

that notion of drowning your challenges and not confronting them through alcohol I lived that

life as well I could travel all over the world in a football dream and it was easy to jump on a

plane fly to another destination forget about whatever was happening back at home do that it's

exciting you're high adrenaline you're always on the go you come back you do the same thing you're

on a rat you're on like a wheel but you never actually have to deal with anything concretely

because there's always that next thing that you get to go to down the line it's probably a very

familiar trope it's probably a very familiar story but giving it oxygen really helps people

work through it and I really salute you for opening up and sharing at it because I can see

and I can tell and I feel it as well that it's uncomfortable admitting some of those

dark parts of your life yeah yeah it it wasn't a happy time and you know from the outside looking

in people thought I was happy and you know I'd do things like I'd go to Berlin and I'd party in

Berlin and do all the stuff and I'd remember being in an apartment there and I've never felt more

alone in my life I've never felt more alone more empty just and you know I just I was a mess and

you know we've all got our own stories and yeah I just I hit rock bottom and COVID hit I couldn't

run anymore and I got I got I got stopped here and it got heavy and I started drinking again

I reverted back to that I was heavily drinking going to work up all night you know doing all

these things that weren't good for my health and building up all this trauma and all the stuff and

blaming everyone I blamed everyone everything under the sun and sooner or later you gotta

you gotta hit rock bottom and for me I had to go there I had to go right down the bottom because

I needed it in a weird way so what happens when you hit rock bottom when you hit rock bottom

you start having really selfish thoughts about it might be better if you know I wasn't here those

kind of thoughts start popping up and you know you're not coming out of your room when you've

got any time you're hungover all you're thinking about it's drinking or you know doing over times

and working you're not you're never ever talking or being vulnerable or thinking about life you

know covering you're covering over everything and at my darkest hour and there was a real

dark hour where I was yeah I was bad and I was you know I was in a real painful place I had a

vision of my son and he was three years old in this vision and he was on my arms and he was holding

my ponamu and he's looking at me and he was going dad I love you I love you you know and I in that

moment I was like what the I was like how can you do this you know I knew that no one was coming to

rescue me and I knew that no one was coming to save me and that I had to take responsibility for

everything from this point on if I wanted to change I knew that I'd created a negative environment

a negative reality but in the back of my mind I knew that I could create a positive one I knew that

I had to stop blaming people and I acknowledged that and when you're not getting the results that

you want you have to look at your habitual habits your thought patterns patterns and you know your

paradigms what are you doing what are you doing with your time because whatever you're doing and

you're not getting the results you need to think about what you're doing so I always knew drinking

was holding me back I was you know I was in the film industry for seven or eight years you know

the party scene being a big part of who I am and in that moment I decided you know what I'm going

to stop drinking I know that that's my problem and I think if you're out there and you're having

problems I think you know what's causing those problems I think deep down you know you've got

the answers and I knew and so I was like I'll do one day just do one day and this is how my

mind works I thought I'll have one more I'll have one more big big day and I invited all the boys

over they didn't know they helped me move this water this big water tank and we we all moved it

and we placed it on the hill we had a barbecue we got on it and none of them knew but that was

that was the day and so I did one day I did two days you know I did three days and I just

I just um it was really confronting did you tell anyone no no I told no one I just stopped

and you know one week turned into two weeks and then what happens when you stop drinking

because it consumes all your thoughts it consumes all your money but more importantly it consumes

all your time and so all of a sudden I've got all this time on my hands Sunday mornings are great

seven to eleven on a Sunday morning wow this is amazing yeah exactly and I ended up with all

this time on my hands all of a sudden and and I had a bit of energy I started getting a bit of

energy back so I knew this too I was like I can't just sit here because it was so confronting

and all you can think about when you're in that state is how bad everything is that's the thought

pattern that's where all my thoughts would go and how I'd messed everything up so I don't know but

it came to me you need to start learning just learn something full this full this gap sorry

is this during COVID as well so have you extra extra time as well I'm still at the fire station

yeah I'm still at the fire station um but I've got yeah I've got a bit of time on my hands

so I decided to start learning and I started learning about meditation because I wanted to

calm my emotions I was always reactive I was brought up you know like you have problem you

you know if you sort it out in an aggressive way I started learning about holistic health

you know health is everything I started learning about self-development I started looking into

things like the power of positivity manifestation the universal laws I started

censoring everything that was coming into my brain and censoring everything was coming that was

coming out so I uplifted it I stopped watching the news I got off social media you know I didn't

I didn't get involved with criticism or complaining because it's you know positive thinking to me

it's not just being positive all the time because that's almost impossible but like it's minimizing

complaining minimizing criticizing minimizing being judgmental and I just went on this this

path and within three months like it happened really fast I was sitting there thinking something

really good's happening here I can feel it I'm changing and not only was I changing but my external

world was starting to uplift and people were different with me and they could tell I started

listening to podcasts I started reading books I read a book called the untethered soul I downloaded

that on the drive up I've heard you reference it before so I've downloaded it on my audible

just to listen and by Michael singing that that was a life changer for me and that book I learned

that you know when you get angry what I was doing was I'd go to work have an argument or

disagreement or something would happen I'd drive home and I'd get angry and I'd get frustrated I

think about that moment or that person now that person's at home having dinner with his with his

family he's moved on that situations happened what was happening was I was making myself angry

and I was every time I did that it was affecting my health and so the only person that was suffering

from my anger and my resentment was me and you know like it seems so simple but when the penny

dropped for me that that's what I've been doing all these years it was like wow I've wasted a lot of

time you know up until this point I mean all the partying and the drinking it seems was for you

selfish perhaps you might say you start going on this learning journey but you're still with the fire

service and then comes a decision to leave that's a big call right this is a stable career it's

everything you've ever known how talk talk through the approaching the decision to leave the fire

service yeah well after six months I was on a high and I'd almost gone up into this other stratosphere

and I was floating around and it was people were looking at me going wow what is wrong with him

you know and I'd I'd invested in some workshops I'd learned you know I started taking interest in

money I've never done that I've never really I've earned my wage and you know I've got my paycheck

and I get from paycheck to paycheck and I've never really taken any interest in money or business or

any of that stuff and I started to and I started to ask some some questions and reflect I started

asking questions like okay I had a hard time at boarding school what part did I play in that

could I have done anything differently there and I could have you know I could have done

things differently and and what was the positive things that came out of it and the positive

things were amazing so I started just viewing the world a little bit differently I started asking

what is my purpose you know why am I here like these questions I'd never asked I didn't I'd never

ever thought about it I was the guy who was struggling and looking for a way and I went

out under the full moon at like two three in the morning on the beach and I asked the universe

you know I asked for guidance guide me help me I don't want to be this person I don't want to be

like this show me the way and all these things just started coming to me and happening for me and

I just started feeling really good about life I started learning about goal setting through

some workshops that I'd been doing I got mentoring myself and my mentor said to me you know like

what is it that you truly want to do in this life what is it that you truly want to do personally

and professionally I want you to write a list and I want you to let anything get in the way

of putting what it is that you want on that list how many times did it take you to write your true

what you wanted on that list it's still sort of changing but you know it's a hard one but I got

like I want to be cool I want to be calm and sent it I want to I want to listen to people

I've got an endless love for my family and friends I want to help people just simple

stuff like that I want to create a service that helps people that's where that's what I want to

do professionally you know like I want to I want to try and uplift and inspire as many people as I

can and I'm well aware that this isn't for everyone and that if you think you're going to

everyone's going to understand you then that's actually quite delusional and I've had to find

my own way through that and like I say and I bring it back if there's just one person listening

right now that's listening to the story and is struggling I want to say that you can change

I've changed I never thought I could and I know people are struggling way harder than me

but everything that I've done is internal and I didn't need anything external you know

so this was the formation of Tekai Arahi is this the foundation of it it is it's the foundation

so I started learning that to be of service and to help people was my path I've always been in

that you know fire service but I wanted to help when I told my family look I'm going to resign

they were shocked I'm like what are you going to do I said I'm going to help people

how can you help people what can you do good question and it was coming from love you know

what can I do and I thought about that and instead of focusing on all the obstacles I focused on what

I can do and what were my strengths okay my strengths hmm live at piha surrounded by te taiao

I'm Māori you know I'm Māori and like that's a huge strength for me I've got principles like

manaki tanga, whanau tanga, koutahi tanga just three simple ones that I share I surf you know and

I know Dave you know that was a big part of it as well and so and Dave didn't know it at the time but

I um I just got to this place where I couldn't carry on another 20 years doing that and being

that person I'd done it I'd loved it and that's enough 20 years is enough of that I wanted to

create my own vision my own dreams I wanted to have the courage to to go off and pursue that

and I thought the best way to do that would be to resign and leave myself no other option

there's no other option make this work we'll be right back after this short break

when when you put those ideas out and actually give them air tell people

is there fear of of the reaction to that's going to be because a lot of people probably have those

thoughts of I'm going to change I'm going to do this this is what I want to do and then when it

comes maybe like it was when you were thinking about trying to tell it about your relationship

breaking down it just doesn't come out because you're worried about the reaction back so how

did you get over if that was even a thing look fear I told the people I love what my plan was

I didn't really go into too much detail with anyone else when I when I put my resignation in at

the fire station they were shocked and everyone was shocked and it got around like the fire station

you know like man that uh information like that moves pretty quickly and so I was getting calls

from um area managers and saying are you okay do you need time off is everything because I had a

really good reputation in the fire service they even said look if you leave you can come back

just let us know you know and then you know I even had got pulled into the office and said look

you know are you making the right decision because it's such a great job but I I just

knew that I couldn't carry on another 20 years there because I would go in there every day and go

I should have left I should have left and once I once I made my decision there was no stopping it

and um I had handed in my resignation I I thought about here's the other thing I started getting

into my te reo Maori and my tikanga and um because where had that been along your journey prior to

that since school I hadn't since tepe ne I hadn't really gone there you know and to my own detriment

a couple of years ago when I made these changes that was included in the things that I started

learning actually I forgot to say that but it was a big part massive part for me and it gives me a

lot of strength to start to learn my whakapapa kareke I'm so lucky to have a kaiako meke

kepa who I meet every sunday and we go through kareke if I call it or you know he teaches me

about the marae and tikanga and the atua and it's just been invaluable and like I'm at a I'm

learning I'm at a real early stage but I know for a lot of our people the answers are within te

omori without a doubt and so it's been huge that was a really important part of the workshop for

me the kareke at the start that that aspect of it it it created this genuineness so it's hard to

describe but I felt you know that was the first thing we did on the first day that yeah your part

in that is so important and we're going to start building into the relationship with Dave because

you've got this thing this business is starting to get off the ground you've left the fire service

how did you approach Dave how did you get connected with him and was that difficult well

so I've left I've got nothing apart from an idea and not even a client not even not even a pilot

not even I had a coaching program that I've got and I've still got that I've been through that's

helped me change my life and I've got the rights to that and I thought well that's part of where

I want to head and it's still there and I have a couple of people that are running through that with

me and they're doing extremely well so I had that that's about all I had I with learned about my

whakapapa you know I started learning and this was a real awakening about you know the battle of

orako which plays heavily in my whakapapa with Heteri Te Pairata my great great grandfather

and in that battle he lost his he lost his father his uncle and his son and his sister was shot four

times so you know that was that was only a couple of generations away from my father

and so I started piecing all this together and you know you can come from I can feel really angry

I cried you know I knew this story but when I started really going into it I cried and I cried

and I felt this anger within me and when I stopped crying I I thought with the learning that I'm

doing I've got to come from a place of love understanding and compassion I can't be resentful

I've done resentful I've done anger what can I do to give back to my people and people in general

and I thought well I can uplift the rangatai and that's where te kairahi came from I thought

that's what I'll do I'll help the youth and I know 40 minutes away from where I live is the biggest

city in Aotearoa and half these kids don't get out into te taiao out into nature so that's where

it started and so I had this idea the goal setting and in one of the workshops I'd done

they said look you can use social media as a marketing tool you know if I held a if I held

a meeting and said hey I want to do this I want to do that probably five people would come but I

got a thousand friends on Facebook they know people so I started posting this stuff helpful

uplifting messages and piha's a small place and they started talking and it was a shock for everyone

and Dave actually says you know he's in the car park and people would thought I was nuts and I was

only saying that to be nice use your imagination set some goals and I was the one that was kind of

and it was coming from a good place too because it was a shock for everyone Dave saw it and said

look come up come up to the house you know I need to talk to you what the freaking what's going on

they're talking you know they're talking down at the car park we need to figure out because he

understood you know he listened to the message he actually listened to it you know and he understood

it so I went up there and we sat in his gym I talked to him about what I was doing some of my goals

and and I had this presentation and I gave it to him about goal setting not life changing

world changing stuff it's all pretty similar but it's about creating this massive vision that

you've got no idea how you can achieve it and then breaking it down into yearly monthly weekly

daily goals and just doing little things every day that are going to help you head in that

direction and it's not about getting there it's about moving in that direction having a having

some direction and I figured yeah that was a big part that was missing for me was real direction

and so Dave believed in you yes where there's lots of doubters that thought that this was a

bad idea they're all in the car park they're still down there um yeah I think it was a shock

you know it was a shock to everyone and even my family were a little bit like well what's going

on you know I saw you guys had a few few cringe words a few weeks ago yeah and it made me laugh

it made me laugh because I went to Mal now there and you know I said look I'm on a journey and they

fucking looked at me and they just about screwed up but you know they kept me grounded and yeah no

it was uh I don't think a lot of people understood me to be honest but I was actually people were

messaging me to like people that I didn't really know we're going hey I saw that message it's really

helped me today you know and um so it was there was a few people that I was getting through to

uh yeah and then um I showed Dave the presentation the goal-setting one

he shared it with some athletes a couple of them did really well with it he got a message back

like one boxer he went to Australia and won a title messaged him and said hey that goal-setting

stuff really really beneficial and helped me and then this is about three months after I resigned

Dave rings me he says look I've got a group from Sports New Zealand they're coming out I want to

start these workshops and this is going to be like the prototype I want you to do a cut of care

and um present your goal-setting and yeah I um I ended up going they started coming in I had this

presentation I was nervous I wanted to help people I wanted to talk to people but I didn't realize

how nervous I could get and as they came in I turned around I looked over and I saw Hamish Carter

coming through and I just went into shock and you know self-sabotage all the stuff in my mind

I started like getting the shakes I said to Dave is that Hamish is that Hamish Carter he said yeah

yeah yeah that's Hamish Carter don't worry about him and I was thinking to myself I'm giving Hamish

Carter a goal-setting presentation what the hell this is surreal but I'm sure your power point knocked

them away well I tell you I tell you I was so nervous you know like my body got up and my voice

sat down and I knew well hold on here we've got a problem I want to I want to communicate I want to

help a lot of people but I'm struggling to get up in front of people uh it went okay um Dave went

I went perfect but I don't think it did but went okay and it got better when I involved Hamish in

the conversation he had some amazing information uh we had a whiteboard it wasn't on the stand

properly every time I went to ride on it my hand was shaking like this and I was just like it was

nerve-wracking I got through it and um yeah I've done a whole heap more since then and I used that

day to mark it myself and so there was a photo of me talking to the group put it back on Facebook

I was amazing to talk to these people I want to help inspire Rangatahi

you know goals all this sort of stuff a few days later after that I get a phone call from

Hawani Waititi the principal he said he's with friends on Facebook we went to school together

tip and air you know and so Harirua he rings me he goes brah I love what you're doing come in I've

got a couple of the kaiako for you to talk to come in here and we'll have a talk about what you're

doing and so I go into the to the kura and he goes oh yeah you come I meet him outside his

office he says come around the corner come around the corner and then we go out the back and we go

behind the Farenui and there's a there's a room out the back there and it is full it's full it's

got all the teachers like over 30 people in there and I'm like oh my god start getting the shakes

again and then he introduced me I shared what I wanted to do and my vision of connecting them back

to Te Tai Ao goal setting and luckily they they agreed to send a group of rangatahi out and about

I don't know four five days later I had my first group and that was about three and a half months

after I resigned we'll be right back after this short break

so now the the business has started in a snowball you get attached to Dave and he brings you in

the workshop and you you spoke about this and I wanted to talk about it is the troubled youth

you started working with and the ram raiders and and these kids and I think you and Dave both have

this this authenticity which breaks through to people which otherwise perhaps couldn't messages

couldn't get through to I haven't said that very well but when these kids came out with you and

spent time in piha talked to me about how you broke through those bonds and and and what you've

learned from from those experiences okay yeah well there's a little bit of a lead up to that

after I had that first group they went back raved about it and then I get a phone call again the

next week from the principal Harirua who's been one of my biggest supporters saying the kids are

raving we want to send all the teachers out so next thing I've gone from nothing to in the

matter of a week I've had one group and 30 teachers and then after that things just started

flowing Dave started inviting me back to the workshops started doing them started getting

doing work with life wise started doing work with marti huru huru started doing more work with

Hoani Waititi and things just started growing and escalating and I got to a point and you know

when you're asking me that question about fear you know there were times where I was like have

I done the right thing you know and I got to a point where there was a little bit of a down time

and I was wondering what am I you know where are we going to head to next and then I get a phone

call and these things just kept coming to me I had a phone call from a really really good close

friend of mine Grant Melons who works for the education department and helps a lot at at at

rescue he said look we've got this group of boys the high offenders we don't know what to do with

them they've been all been expelled they're like 13 40 years old love what you're doing do you think

you can help them and for me you know I'm into high power stuff and that's the high power saying

you want to help here you go here's a group of kids let's go what have you got and I just said

yes I can help them I didn't know how you know I had had my program I had what I'd never dealt with

kids like this and so we came to an agreement we worked it all out and then you know I had them

out there for the first day and the first day when the darangatahi come to me it's just all about

trust they've got to trust me you know they feel comfortable with me before I push anything on them

so the first thing we do is we feed them you know we should get them get them comfortable then we

we went up to a lookout we have a cut of care and a little mihi whakato and we introduce each other

I tell them what it's all about and I put some responsibility on them and they're all just sitting

there just looking at me going what you know what's this guy all about you know and they're

standoffish and they're in fight or flight that 24-7 that's how they operate and I could tell

that they were thinking and they were getting edgy but very polite I could sense this and so I thought

I need to get them in the water really fast so we went down to the blue pools and we went for a

swim and they didn't want to go for a swim and the sand and all this sort of thing and then

I told them about some of this the stuff that I get from Dave's workshop you know I share that

with them about bringing things in and you know it's not about everything being easy you know we

can we can do some hard things they're going to help us grow anyway we go down for a swim I can't

get them out of the water and they love it so I just leave them in there and we just swim all

afternoon lie in the sand start talking to them about manaki tanga care for one another start

talking to them about every time we come here we want to look after each other and have a good time

that's what the objective of these days are we don't want to come out here and have a bad time

I said to them this this workshop though this this day is not just you know it is about you

but it could be about the little kid that's over in Tamaki Makoto that's struggling that needs to

come out here so the better that you do with this program you know we can get those kids that might

need it it's not just about you and try and put some responsibility onto them I was really lucky

that the the main boy who who was like the alpha he loved it I think he liked the positive role

and he loved the swimming he loved being in nature they love the karake they love that stuff you

know care for one another working towards a goal together and coming in as a community and

yeah we were just having fun we'd we'd slide down the sand dunes and we'd go for walks into the

nahiri up to waterfalls and go for swims we did jujitsu we did breath work and over over three

weeks we started forming this bond and it would started getting really strong and they wanted to

come I'd take them for hikes and we'd be hiking down karikari and it would be hot and I've got

all their clothes like stretching through the sand and I like sweating that out yeah it's out of

their comfort zone and you know I say you know when things are hard you change the language you

know this is a big part of it what are you saying to yourself and when we were walking down there

one of them goes to me hey mister you know it's like what's up and he goes it's not even hot down

here hey it's not even hot it's not even hot hey boy he goes nah it's not even hot hey and then

another one goes hey mister I was like yo what's happening he goes oh it's not that far it's not

that far hey like he goes it's not as far as walking to Wellington you know and so we just

actually had a lot of fun but within in between that fun like I teach them about the rips and I

teach them that you know there's a lot of dangers and there's a lot of risks out here and whenever

you get into that situation you just want to learn as much as you can to make yourself safe

and show them where we can swim and what we can do and I guess I took them surfing they loved surfing

getting into the water because when you're out in the ocean man you got to pay attention

and when you're out there you can't think about all the problems you're in the moment you know it

sounds a bit cliche but that is the truth when you're out in the surf it's an amazing gift and

and they feel it and we had some crazy success so we we did this first three week round

two days a week and they wanted to do another one and then we did another one

and then we ended up doing four in a row the fending dropped considerably you know some of it

didn't but but they had considered they had really good evidence that it had dropped one boy went on

to get a job and he had a family group conference and he said coming out to te kaiata he was a played

a big role in him inspiring him to change the direction of his life so we know it's working I

love it and I just come from a place of love understanding and compassion and it's working

for me I'm not I don't I don't run it like a bootcamp or anything like that I show them real

compassion I show them I care about them I've got their back you know and you know that's that

leadership stuff and and I follow that through and they confide in you things they wouldn't tell

other people right I'm gonna be talking about the rambraders they're sort of code of ethics they

they have yeah well look you know they do they did start opening up to me and we'd have these

conversations we'd be lying in the grass somewhere and we'd be you know just having a

chat and then I'd say like where do you get the cars and I'd be like oh we get them anywhere

this and then he looks at me goes but but we wouldn't just steal any car oh really and he goes

no I wouldn't steal a car with a with a baby seat in it and I was like maybe I should get a baby seat

yeah like that yeah and he goes he looks at he goes no we've seen your car we wouldn't steal that one

and you know like so you know that and it's hard on them like I know because everywhere they look

it's bad school's bad at home's bad the society come down on them there's there's nowhere for them

to go and the only people that are opening the arms for them is the street culture

that's where they're getting accepted so I don't know and so like my good friend

Dean Brady at level up mentoring he he puts it perfectly you know we've got anti-social behavior

and we're punishing them with anti-social behavior you know and expecting some some

different results and you know I have to tread carefully because you know there's people out

there doing some amazing work and you know I get these I get Tarangatahi occasionally in that and

I don't know how you get them into a classroom and do that stuff I've got Te Tai Ao that's an

adventure the stuff I'm teaching out there under a waterfall they're listening they're feeling it

we did a questionnaire what's the what what what is it about this program that you love the most

the breathing they love the breathing the breath work it's crazy because they kind of make fun of

it when I when I tell them and then they're lying back there and they're just so relaxed and it's

all stopped and they some of them fall asleep and that's okay too but then they just come back

and they say things like I've never ever I've never felt like that I've never felt that calmness

your cup seems so full you remind me a lot of Daniel Kiriopa who's been through a similar journey

go back and listen to that episode I did I love it I love him and you're at a point where you're

just all about giving back and you just the passion comes through you like it's so important

to help people it's all it's about helping where are you I mean it's two years ish since you've

started are you already far beyond what you thought was possible when you started you've

keeping changing these goals what are the goals now well I do have a big vision a 10 year vision

a massive one and it's it's way out there I've ticked a lot of boxes with the goals that I've

set and I've set them and I've accomplished them fairly fairly quickly I'm yeah I'm blown away

that not only is everything working out for me but just the absolute joy I'm getting out of life

and living this life and how I've changed my life just by the internal stuff and I never really

understood what the internal stuff what that meant but what I think it means is like everything I did

I didn't need anything external so like I looked at holistic health it was the nutrition it was the

it was the sleep it was the breathing you know it was the thoughts are massive the thoughts create

everything and then it was getting out of moving and reconnecting with nature and reconnecting with

everyone around me and so I'm getting so fulfilled from doing that it's exciting times I've got some

really cool people who are coming into my world and it's like an attract you hear about this attraction

thing and it's happening and I've got a lot of really cool people I don't know if I mentioned

Jeanette Seale but she is helping me and if anyone recognises that name they'll know that you know

she's a she's an amazing person and she's been she's been guiding me and mentoring me and the

things that we've got planned for the next 12 months are huge the things that we've got planned

with Woody are huge and I just um I'm just yeah I just want to try and spread the love

and you know I'm not an expert on any of the stuff I'm just me I miss this average guy

who's changed his life around and I haven't needed anything to do it apart from just doing the

eternal work meditation goal-setting visions yeah the average guy the inspiring average guy is

is what this is all about so you've got the two hats you've got the te kairahi and you've

got calm under pressure if we can just talk a little bit about how that is blown up because

Dave said you're an integral part of it you're a sort of a collaborator with him on it now

and we were talking before about how and I remember being on it thinking I was really lucky

to be in it at ground level I think there was 23 of us and it was starting to take

form and every single person that was on that course was going home to tell someone else they

have to do it and as word spreads and you get some influential people coming in and taking

their corporates through like it's just it's just going to grow and grow and grow I know you've

already been getting international interest how do you scale something like that up does it have to

be you and Dave like is there limits to how big that is look it is growing and the work that he's

done it's it's it's amazing and so I said the thing with Dave is you know what he did for me

you know you can't you can't put that into words or you can't measure that but the amount of you

know love that I have and trust that I have for him I only want to see the best for him

it's worked really well because we're quite different in a lot of ways we have similar

we've similar beliefs similar values but the way we work because I feel stuff you know I don't need

someone to break down what's happening in me internally when I take five breaths close my eyes

and try and get into a parasympathetic state I can feel it and I know that it's working Dave can

really break that stuff down in a really simple way and and some people need that we are getting

so many people and after the podcast it just it did it just blew up and everyone that's coming on

there is saying oh we heard Dave on a podcast and he's doing speaking the ripple on effects of what

he the work he's doing is just going far and wide and it's making it to New York it's made it to Asia

we're getting people coming over from from there I know that Dave wants to make this the best

uh breath workshop in the world and I've got no doubt that he can do that and you know where to

from here I don't know if I'm the right person to be saying some of the stuff but like just watch the

next 12 months it's gonna go yeah I was thinking that when I was on it I think it probably already

is not that I've been on any other breathing workshops but it just wasn't what I expected

the the start where you're sitting around in circles there's 23 of us and everyone's

sharing their vulnerabilities and it was builders and physios and doctors and surgeons and the layers

came down straight away and people were revealing parts of themselves which I'm pretty sure some

of them had never said out loud before and the power of it and the way that it instantly created

community and then you're on this journey for two days as everyone is learning together these

all different holistic parts of of your life and health I was like fuck man this is so powerful

it's so cool and it happened fairly organically you know we it just happened and the the great part

of it is is that people come and they're not sure what they're gonna get and the first part of the

day that that is not what they expected you know they say things like oh when are we running the

dunes it's like oh we're not running the dunes because they see is he running up and down the dunes

I've had yeah and the the vulnerability part we've we just organically found that and it

breaks everyone down and so this workshop we've had people from all walks of life high achievers

you know gold medalists rugby players tradies housewives just everything

emergency services and when we sit down in that in that circle and we become vulnerable because

we ask them when they first get there we want you to be vulnerable you know there's a time and a

place and today's the day that we're going to get vulnerable and and there's this misconception

that it's a weakness I mean there's a time and a place to be vulnerable and they come and they

and they start sharing some of their weaknesses and when you go around the when you go around

everyone's got them they're all the same and the more we do this the more I'm thinking there's so

many people out there struggling the other really powerful thing about both of the both of the

workshops mine and his is that people are isolated like myself you know dealing with this by ourselves

and we don't know the answers and when they come together be vulnerable learn how to control their

emotions through the breath but it's much more than a breath workshop it's about connecting

spiritually you know mentally physically talk about mental health well hold on what about the

physical and the and the spiritual and Māori we're spiritual you know we we're connecting with that

stuff so yeah that it's not just a breath workshop it's it's much more than that and it's developed

over the time and we're getting big corporates from New York coming that are killing it in the

business world but emotionally they're a little you know they're struggling like the rest of us

and they're coming back and they and they want to you know they want to get more of their friends

to come and or we go there depending on how it works you reckon we get Shay on there 100 percent

love to have him out there love to have him out there because the other thing about it too is

it's not who's the strongest it's not who's the fastest it's got nothing to do with any of that

it's the funniest hey question that's bouncing around in my head for all of of what you do

and the amazing things you do and you put on the universe it's a cliche question but do you have a

why like what is what is your why why do you do what you do my why is my son yeah that's my why

he's my everything first and foremost above everything that I do and everything that I am

I'm a father and that's really important to me that that um I show him that I could get to 47

and you know fuck things up but I can change and it's never too late to change I'm at a you know

and I just want him to yeah obviously you want your kids to be proud of you I was a very young

father yeah I was oh when I heard he was was coming I was 22 years old you know and I've changed

obviously but I just I just love my son so much and he's my everything and he's taught me so much

but he he he holds me accountable for how I hold myself and the person I want to become which is

probably one of the more important things that I'm done after and he's pretty exceptional himself

is he a New Zealand surfing champ professional surfer he he's won the national title we've

traveled the world I've been I've been blessed I got him into surfing for purely selfish reasons

because I knew if he surfed I'd surf so um you know I could take the kids away to Ragland and you

know give them a rest and and he's just taken it to another level and when he was 12 he got

sponsored and from 12 years old to now we travel the world a lot he's taken me everywhere I've

met some of my heroes of surfing through him I've lived it through him I've tried to be the dad and

not so much the coach but you know I film a lot I love that and we've got a really strong strong

relationship the thing I think I love most about the story is we're getting it in the beginning

phases if we get you back in 10 years time like holy shit like what are you like three years into

this transformation look I looked at that today and we keep mentioning I resigned

September 2001 I hooked up with Dave at March I think or February March so you know we haven't

really we haven't even really done two years and every year non-negotiable for me is to spend two

two or three months in Indonesia with my son or traveling with my son so for about four or five

months I've been away and so we you know we've got a lot to do and and I'm really passionate but

yeah I've got I've got a massive 10 year goal massive one right and I keep that to myself that

vision and it'll change but it's huge and I've got no idea how I'm going to get there but the way

it's unfolding I don't really care and if I ever do get close to it I'm going to move it and and

another thing is you know there's this thing about 65 is retiring I never want to retire I never

want to stop and I think by the time I'm 65 I'll be hitting my straps then that's when I'll be like

you know refining my craft and helping people it's exciting. Be foolish to bet against you bro

you've got that passion like Dave said you got that fire show you any little bits and pieces for

no no bits and pieces all right incredible ride I just want to thank you man like when like I said

at the start the idea for Loki Legends came from listening to your talk on the workshop messages

having this platform to get messages like this out there are going to help so many people

because so many people are trapped in that place you were and to see at a later stage in life that

you can turn things around and the goodness you can do and put out in the world is so inspirational

and it's so important so thanks so much for coming in man this is going to be so well received to

love it. Thank you brothers thank you so much for the invite yeah it's an honor it's an honor and

you know like yeah I just hope that anyone who needs to hear this you know you can change

we can't you can you can change the course of your life your environment and who you are so

it's been an absolute pleasure thank you so much. Hang on Shay. I'm going to throw it to the big guy.

No no no like what you're saying is true like it's it's funny I've said this a number of times on

the podcast like the amount of times that real life cross-sex with what we do on the pod and for

whatever reason and I love the spirituality element to what you do and how you do it your messages are

just hitting at the right time for me personally and my big takeaway is that idea of that conversation

that you have in your own head that conversation about censoring the negative and monitoring

what comes out as well because that's the conversation that you have

with that's the biggest the longest conversation that you have every day is the one that's going

on in your own head you might put stuff out to the universe but you're talking to yourself the

whole time so if those messages are monitored yeah the frequencies and stuff that you put out

there are going to be you know even more positive and you talk about the law of attraction it's no

surprise that all these these things are happening to you as they are at the moment and if this is

what's happening at the moment yeah I can't wait to see that 65 year old version when you're hitting

your straps because it's going to be super super impressive so yeah thank you so much for speaking

directly to me and to my to my spirit and she's going to come come on the workshop eh we'll see

got one in December so come on there all right we'll see we'll see cheers Jamal thank you so much

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