My First Million: How To Grow A Small Agency Into A Billion Dollar Company, Shaan's $15M Miss, And More

Hey, remember this email?

Yeah, Plyboard's a unicorn now.

Huh, what do you know?

I'm curious what you think about that.

And I was like, I think I was an idiot.

I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to.

I put my all in it like no days off.

On the road, let's travel, never looking back.

All right, let's do it.

Fancy shirt, fancy shirt.

All I gotta say is fancy shirt.

I now do this thing where if somebody does anything,

that's like, I feel like they left the house today,

feeling good about that.

Or they got a haircut.

I'm not subtle about it.

I act like a dog barking.

I'm just like, nice haircut.

You changed your face.

The thing that the audience is going to call me out on

is I couldn't find my other glasses.

So I have to wear these glasses.

The problem with them is that asshole Jeffrey Dahmer

decided to wear the same ones.

So it looks like I'm going to ask you like,

do you want to come back to the apartment

to take some peaceful pictures and have some beers?

They'll be real nice.

He ruined it for me.

Some people are into that.

Dude, I got roasted so badly by my daughter last night.

I was like, oh man, this is...

Your four-year-old daughter roasted you so badly?

Nice.

Three, three years old.

She can't play many games.

We play rock, paper, scissors, but she always throws scissors.

So that's fun for her, not for me.

She plays hide-and-seek, always hides in the same spot.

There's kids do this.

They play the game, but they don't know how to play.

So I taught her I spy.

I was like, oh, here's a game we could play in the car.

I spy.

And so she loves I spy.

So I'm like, I spy something green.

She's like, is it the tree?

I'm like, how'd you get it?

It's always the tree.

That's right.

And she goes, I spy something yellow.

And I'm like, looking around the house, I'm like, where is it?

I don't see anything yellow.

She goes, your teeth.

And she's not aware that that's the sickest burn.

That anybody's done to anybody.

Hey, I spy an asshole.

Yeah, exactly.

I was like, wow, that is just like natural.

That's a natural burn.

That's good.

Dude, before we get to business, can I tell you about something cool

that you probably know about?

And I saw it and I can't stop thinking about it.

Have you heard of the Scallenge?

I don't know about this.

Tell me about this.

All right.

This is, you know, I don't pay attention to sports.

This is your league.

So, you know, you know, Brian is Brian.

Oh, Scalabrini.

Okay, I didn't know he called it the Scallenge.

That's a good name.

Well, explain who he is.

People don't know.

So Brian Scalabrini, he played for the Celtics.

He's like a redhead.

He's six, nine.

He's huge, but I think it looks like a Will Ferrell,

but actually was an NBA player.

Yeah.

So easy to make fun of.

But I think he was like, okay, right?

Or was he always kind of bad?

Yeah, he was okay.

But then like, it was okay.

But he was, he didn't take himself too seriously.

And over time, you know, like he had a kind of a few years where he

actually played, but most of his career, he's on the bench as a

scrub.

And yeah, his nickname, you know, Kobe was the black Mamba.

He started calling himself the white Mamba.

And so, you know, he was a goofy dude who was basically a bench

warmer for like the last, whatever, seven years of his career,

but was a great, you know, great locker room presence and,

you know, a warm body.

So people kept him around.

And I think at one point he called himself, I don't know if it was

a joke or what, the worst player in the NBA.

Obviously it was a joke.

But anyway, after he retired, so I guess he retired,

so I guess he retired from the NBA somewhat recently ish,

but he's still six, nine and athletic and whatever or athletic

for, you know, he's a basketball player, but he compared to the

other guys.

He wasn't like that athletic, but he starts playing rec leagues.

And like he would score, you know, rec leagues, like at the YMCA

and on playgrounds.

And he scores like 60 points a game, you know, just crushing

these guys.

And he doesn't like brag about it too much, but then like online

at one point he mentions like, yeah, I got 60 points last night

in my rec league.

And then just people online just start chirping at him hard.

And they're like, dude, you suck.

I could beat you or you know, I don't even know how you made

it in the NBA.

You know, yada, yada, yada.

They start chirping at him.

And he goes, wait a minute.

No, I may be suck compared to Derek Rose, but I don't suck

compared to any of you guys.

And so he starts doing this tour where he goes to like all these

basketball courts.

He goes, I want to go to the, the, the, the hootest of the hood

basketball court.

I want to go to the best YMCA.

I want to, I'll go all around the country.

And he starts doing this and he crushes these guys.

And he challenges people.

He says, come play me one on one.

You think I suck?

Come play me one on one.

Yeah.

And he destroys them.

And there's, he's like, I'm not even doing this for social

media, but some people recorded a couple of these things that he

would beat them like 10 nothing.

He was like, I let him get one point just to figure out what

they're going to do.

But I just destroy these guys.

And he's got this awesome quote that he goes, he said this to

like one of the kids.

It was like an 18 year old kid who like plays against him and

he, and he, and he crushes this kid.

He goes, let's get something straight.

I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me.

And I thought, I read that.

And I go, this is the greatest thing I've ever heard.

This is awesome.

It's such a good story.

And he called it the scallage.

And I thought it was so good.

It just shows, you know, there's levels to greatness.

Yeah.

There's levels to this.

I think it's the perfect, the perfect takeaway from that.

And also he's hilarious.

He is so good.

I don't remember this by the way, we were, when we did our,

our camp MFM getaway, the guy who came to train us, he's,

he trains like a bunch of NBA stars.

So he trains Kyrie Irving.

He's trained to train young.

And so he was there and his wife is in the WNBA.

We're talking about the WNBA and how like they're, you know,

the players are awesome, but they also don't get like high

viewership.

It's like not, like the league doesn't do that well.

It's kind of like subsidized by the NBA.

They kind of lose his money, but you know, it's good overall

for the sport, for their to be a women's league.

And so we were like, you know, well, we had kind of a

brainstorm of like the same thing everyone says, which is,

can I beat her up?

You know, like, it's what everyone says.

Not beat her up.

Just beat her basketball.

That's what happens with like, when a bunch of drunk kids

get that Buffalo Wildwigs are watching like Rose Naomi

Unis and like these female UFC fighters.

Everyone thinks it.

Can I kick her ass?

Yeah.

What would happen if I fought her?

Yeah, exactly.

So basically we did a brainstorm of like, what would you do

to get ratings up or to like, if you were to launch a

different women's league, like how would you get people

interested?

Cause the problem, I think I saw this, this crazy TikTok

like some team, whoever won the championship last year,

I don't, I have no idea.

Maybe it's like the Atlanta dream or something like that.

And they came home to do their parade in the city.

And it literally just looked like, you know, if I walk to

my bus stop here and there's like three people kind of

loitering around, there's like a bum.

And then, you know, that was the parade.

There was nobody there for the parade.

And the team was going down in the bus.

And it was just like, other people were like, why is this?

What is this?

Why is this bus here?

What is it?

You guys play a sport.

I didn't really realize that.

So there's a TikTok that went viral, making fun of it.

And yeah, the idea that, that we all landed on was basically

the three or four, five best players should basically go on

tour.

Like it's the end one mix tape tour and go city to city

and challenge, you know, any five, you know, go play pickup

with any, with dudes at any of these and live stream or like

cut that into clips of them, basically punking, punking guys.

Yeah.

Like beating guys who think they could beat them and, you know,

get some respect on their names.

So that was kind of the marketing idea.

But yeah, to our, if the CMO of the WBA is listening, you're welcome.

Dude, I love these challenges.

There was another one where when you're watching running,

running's not a popular sport, but I love it.

It's my favorite sport to watch next to the UFC.

And people were like, they're not that, they're like a two hour

marathon.

Do you remember that when like I elude, elude kept choking?

He ran two hours and he just looks so smooth.

He looks closer to an animal than he does a human.

His body is just like, he just, you know,

running a hundred miles a week for probably 20 years.

He's just like his, you look at his calves and you're like,

I can't believe that you and I are like the same.

We're both humans.

It's not even fair.

He looks graceful when he runs.

He looks beautiful and he doesn't look that fast.

And so they put a treadmill at the same speed and they go,

here's, here's because he's doing it with ease.

He's doing it with ease.

And he does it for two hours and they go,

see if you can do this for 15 seconds.

And they have this treadmill and like people can't do it for

20 seconds.

They can't even run that speed.

It's basically like four minutes and 30 seconds a mile,

which is like, I don't know, would that be like 16 miles an hour?

That'd be like sprinting for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like a sprint and it's a sprint for most people.

And it was really funny and no one could keep up with it.

So I love these.

Like that's actually one of the tenets of making content viral,

which is it may, you have to make something made to stick

and you can make it stick by comparing it to real tangible

things that everyone can understand.

And when you put one of these treadmills at that speed,

you're like, oh, I can't keep up with that for 10 seconds,

let alone two hours.

Totally. Totally.

Somebody said this about the Olympics.

They go, the Olympics, there should be one civilian in every event.

Just a normal fit guy from the gym.

And it should just be like, just as a baseline comparison,

here's the average person.

Here's even like an above average person and then here's the

Olympians.

Like let them all just let them line up in lane 11 and see what

happens.

Dude, I would love that.

I would love that.

I have a, I've got, I've got a big meaty topic.

What do you have?

All right. So I, this is a story of a multi-million,

easily multi-million problem.

And type in the chat, how do the calculation and how much I

lost doing this?

Let's see.

I would have invested at a company at five million and it's

now a three billion-ish company.

So, you know, I basically turned, I missed out on a chance to

probably turn something like 25K into tens of millions of

dollars.

Yeah.

Okay.

And there's kind of some, some interesting things baked into

this.

So it's not just a, oh, I missed it.

Big deal.

Everybody misses, misses opportunities.

This is an interesting one.

So back in 2015, which is kind of when we met, I was not a

angel investor, but I liked the idea.

I thought it sounded cool.

I was a founder of a, of a company and I was making, I think

100, 160 grand a year.

So 160 grand a year.

Back then you told me you were making 160 and I was like, oh,

you're the richest person I know.

I remember you told me you're making $150,000.

I was like, oh my God.

Yeah.

I, I remember, I was like, man, find a, find somebody who

looks at me the way Sam looks at me right now.

The way that Sam looks at my pay stub.

And so, so yeah, I was making 160 year, but in, in California,

you know, you've kind of after taxes, now you're at like 110,

you're netting, you know, and then you pay for life.

It's pretty expensive, blah, blah, blah.

You don't save much.

So I didn't have much of a bankroll, but I liked the idea of

being an angel investor and people, because our office was so

dope, when a founder would come, they would think that I'm a

lot richer than I was, but just because our office was so fancy,

which was only fancy because our main investor owned the

building and decked it out for himself.

And like, that's why the office was so fancy.

It had nothing to do with me.

So anyways, I, I meet this kid.

We're building a product and I meet this kid.

He's 13 years old and he uses our app every day.

Our app was like a clubhouse type of app.

He used to use it every day after school, come home, use the app.

And he didn't just use it with his friends.

That would have been awesome.

That would have been a better sign for us if a bunch of 13

year olds started using it and liking it amongst their friends.

No, he would just hang out in the, all of the Silicon Valley

chat rooms.

He wanted to be in the tech scene really, really badly.

And we're like, dude, you should be like going and go try to

have a kiss.

Like, you know, that should be your mission, not like sitting

in on this room talking about raising your series A.

And so two things happened.

One, he's like, dude, I want to come work with you guys.

We're like, dude, you're in middle school.

Like I can't, your parents are going to kill me.

I can't help you work for us.

But I go, here's, here's what you can do.

He goes, I want to be a scout for you.

I said, okay, go ahead.

He'd be a scout for me.

He goes, what do you want me to do?

I go every week, I want you to just send me a company that you

think is awesome and that you think I should invest in and

just write why you think I should invest and send me the company.

Now I have zero hope or really even zero plan to read this

email at the time.

I'm just basically giving this kid a homework assignment.

I'm like, yeah, this will help you think.

And most likely this is going to be too much work for you.

You might do it once, you might do it twice, but you're going

to give up by the third time for sure.

So I give him this homework assignment.

Very first company he sends me is a company called apply board.

And so here's, here's what apply board does.

He goes apply board.

Yeah, I have the email.

Do you want me to read the email or?

Yeah, skim it.

All right, so he goes, this was the second, this is sorry,

this is the second week.

Hey, Sean, here's the second company I want to introduce.

Apply board, what they do.

They help international students find the right university

for themselves and apply there on their behalf.

They have 11 schools contracted to pay them a commission for a

student that gets that signed up and they have 14 more schools

in the funnel.

They have over 1500 students signed up, 160,000 Facebook likes

and this is all with $10 in paid marketing.

So it's actually pretty interesting, right?

It's actually a kind of a really good analysis.

And that's, you know, simple two lines.

So I'm like, wow, this kid's 13.

He's like, you know, this is a good find.

And he's explained it well.

He goes, why you should invest?

Now this is where he got a little off, but that's okay.

He goes, they started four years ago with offline consulting

and then pivoted into a software business.

They know the space well.

They have four co-founders.

They have a very, very diverse skill set, blah, blah, blah.

They have an algorithm, something, something.

And he says their customer acquisition costs only a few

dollars and their LTV is 1000.

So they have sustainable growth.

He goes, I'm trying to correct my shots so that one day

I can hit the bullseye for you.

If you have any feedback on the company, I would love to hear it

because the first one I didn't even respond.

I said, like, this is bad.

So this was his second one.

And I'm like, you know what?

This is actually pretty good.

I'm going to take this meeting.

So guy is in San Francisco.

He comes to my office.

Love him.

Super charming.

This guy Martin, you've probably met like a bunch of these guys

who are like, there's something that's really just like,

I don't know, charismatic or charming about dudes from like,

you know, Israel or something like that.

Like anyone is like, Israel, Persian, Turkey.

There's like, it's like, there's just so goddamn charming.

Like they're just dripping with sauce.

What's Cliff's company?

Effortless.

Cliff Weitzman.

Yeah.

It's the audio one.

It's called speechify.

Yeah.

I met, I think he's Middle Eastern.

I met him when he was just starting.

And I was like, he's Israeli actually.

He had that same vibe.

And in the office, I go, what's interesting about you?

Or something.

And he goes, I can do a backflip.

I go, all right.

Well,

Best friends.

All right.

Well, uh, move that chair over.

There's enough room here.

Go do it.

Eddie did a backflip in the middle of my office and his company

now speechify.

It's, it's in the unicorn territory.

And I didn't invest in it, but like he had that same charisma

when he came to my office.

He lit up the room.

I should have, I should have known better.

Yeah.

He's got amazing energy.

And so yeah, this is the.

So, so he, so I meet this guy, he's got the Israeli swag.

I'm loving it.

And then.

And again, I have never, at this point, I've never Angel Vest

in a company, but I'm like, this seems like a great idea.

And what they're, why does a great idea for people who don't

know is kind of an F'd up part of the system, which is colleges

in the U S just have like surge pricing for international

students.

So it's basically like, if I'm a, if I'm a state resident, I

get like cheaper tuition at state schools.

Okay.

But if I'm a U S resident, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

but if I'm a U S resident, I pay, you know, what I thought is

full price.

So maybe I'll pay 25 K to go to school at this place, but an

international student will have to pay two or three times

more than that.

So they'll pay 50 to 75,000 for the same exact thing.

They just charge them more.

It's kind of insane.

I don't really know even how they are able to justify this,

but they do.

And so.

You remember in San Francisco University?

Was that what it called?

Yeah.

I dated a girl that went like had ties there and I remember

walking around campus and was only Chinese students.

And it's, and it's not even good schools like University of

San Francisco or USF or whatever.

It's not even that good of a school.

And so it's actually, it's actually a bit of a trick.

It's like, international students just want to come to

America.

They can't differentiate between, you know, University of

Utah and, you know, Columbia or whatever, like these

different schools, they don't know the lay of the land that

well.

They don't know that the schools in the middle of

nowhere, they don't know that it's not actually considered

that prestigious or whatever it is.

So it's really, it's really expensive.

So it's actually a lot of these other schools that really

take advantage of this and have a huge percentage of their

population coming from international, which makes up a

disproportionate amount of revenue.

So that's kind of like why the schools were interested.

So they went to him and they were like, yo, we'll give you

$3,000 if you can get somebody to sign up.

And he's like $3,000.

Oh, that's pretty good.

And I think now they take a lot more than I think they now

they take, you know, 10% or something of the, of the

overall tuition.

So it's gone up since then.

But anyways, so he pitches and I'm like, dude, I just get

caught up.

I like the idea.

I love this guy's personality.

I'm like, I'm in.

He's like, you're in.

I'm in.

He said, fantastic.

I haven't really talked to anybody else yet.

So I don't know all the round details.

I said, brother, I'm in.

And he's like, all right, love it.

You're, you're the first guy I've met in Silicon Valley.

You're my champion on this.

And I thought, huh, I'm the first guy he's met.

Oh, wait, hold on.

I didn't want to, I didn't, I didn't really want to be the

first guy in like, you know, first to the dance floor is kind

of like, not, not exactly the position to be in.

So then he goes on tour, he goes, starts pitching people and

he starts coming back to me with any, he's a nice dude.

He's honest guy.

He trusts me.

He says, man, they're saying no because of this.

And I'm like, oh, these guys are idiots.

Don't worry about them.

They don't get it.

Next one.

They came back.

They said no because of this.

And by the third one, I'm like, maybe I should have been

saying no.

So I start to doubt my, my conviction in this thing, but

I'm still like, brother, I told you I'm in.

So I'm in.

Anyways, it takes him a little time.

Dude, if you, if the end of the story is you backed out on

him and you were calling him brother.

I wasn't calling him brother.

In fact, I think he was calling me brother because that was

like, you know, it's like the Kabib thing where they just,

they just say brother a lot.

You just knifed him in the back.

Well, I didn't actually knifed him in the back.

I don't know, I don't remember exactly how it played out,

but I definitely was doubt.

So, so basically takes him a little time to raise the round.

He eventually does get the round together.

And I'm supposed to write a 25 K check, not even like some

crazy amount of money, but to me at that time that was like,

it's like, all right, well, that's kind of like my entire

like savings for this year is going to go to this one random

Israeli guys company.

All right.

Uh, you know, I could lose this, but I would really hate to

lose this.

And I start thinking about, you know, am I, am I ready for this?

I don't know.

And so I kind of just, I don't back out, but I don't, from what

I remember, I didn't back out, but I didn't reach back out

either.

And so I think he probably emailed me once.

I was like, yeah, okay, let me know when it's time.

And then he probably emailed me like three or four weeks later.

I was like, yo, it's time.

And I just like didn't reply to that thing.

And I don't think anything really happened.

But anyways, long story short, I don't invest fast forward,

you know, five years.

I get an email from that same kid, Sirush.

And Sirush is like, Hey, remember this email?

Yeah.

Apply boards of unicorn now.

Huh.

Well, what do you know?

Curious what you think about that?

And I was like, I think I was an idiot.

And I, yeah, I think I was a total idiot.

And there's actually a few kind of like takeaways in this for me.

So the few takeaways are one, don't be a wuss.

If you say you're going to do something, just do it.

That's just a lesson for myself.

And I think, you know, for most people, yourself included,

that's, that's rarely a problem for me.

That's more of a problem.

Second, I actually think I was correct that I was not ready to

be angel investing at the time.

And so I, I should either, you could have done like a $5,000

check.

Yes, exactly.

So what I should have done is I should have said, all right,

look, I don't have the bankroll to place 20 bets, which is kind

of what you'll need.

You need 20 to 30 bets for, you know, angel investing to work.

And so it's like, you know, I don't, I don't realistically,

I do not have the bankroll to do this, but that's okay.

That doesn't mean I don't do what I want.

It means I got to be resourceful and find a way.

So either let me come in at a smaller check size that makes,

it's my version of, you know, if an angel investor writes 25K

when they have $5 million, then I need to write the proportional

check for me and see what happens.

Or I should have gone to somebody and said, Hey, I actually

found this deal.

I think it's really good.

You have the money, which is what I did later with Lambda

School.

It was like, Hey, I like this company.

They haven't really raised much money yet.

It's not proven, but like, I think it's worth a shot.

And I convinced somebody else to write the check and give me

some carry.

So that's really what I should have done to make this happen.

But at the time my fear overrode my like, you know, not even

ego, the fear overrode my like ability to think with a clear

head and say, okay, well, sounds like there's just a little

obstacle here and let's figure out how we're going to get around

it.

A lot of people are embarrassed.

They're saying like, well, can I do 5,000?

Like I remember doing a deal.

I did a deal for 15 or 25,000 when I didn't have a lot of money.

Thankfully on paper, it's turned into a bit.

But I remember thinking like, that's, I want to ask them if I

could do 5K, but I don't want to look like a punk.

Right.

Yeah.

So, so I think I should have found a way and that's, I think

has been a common theme in my life, which is like a lot of

good opportunities come my way.

And I say, I don't have the time.

I don't have the money.

I don't have the skill.

I don't have whatever.

And I rule it out.

Even though objectively, I'm like, this is a great opportunity.

And the real answer is find a way to get the time or find

somebody who does have the time.

Find a way to get the money or find somebody who has the

money to help you out.

Right.

Like do, do one of those things to get there.

And this is not like a small thing.

Like just doing the difference in doing that and not doing

that would have been again, tens of millions of dollars in

this case when in the result case where it worked out.

So that's one takeaway.

The second is this guy, Sarush is like now become a general

strategy for me, which is I always want to have like, I

don't know, four or five people who are kind of like way, it's

like, it's like an anti mentor.

All right.

Like, you know, it's a mentee or something like that.

Right.

It's like, I want to have people that are young, hungry and

ignorant and naive, but that's an asset for them because

they're young and hungry.

I want to have them more in my orbit and I need to find some

excuse to have them in my orbit and hang out with them and

hear what they think is interesting and meet their

friends and whatever.

Like, you know, I think that is an actual strategy that most

people miss out on.

Everybody wants to sort of climb up.

They're like, oh, how do I meet the person who's done more

than me or is more successful than me, has more money than

me, whatever.

And they're focused constantly on like reaching up and trying

to like pull themselves up.

And instead I found so much benefit out of just having a

crew, a small crew of like 18 to 21 year olds that I'm like,

okay, you guys just think differently than me.

You're worried about different things and you're excited

about different things than me.

How do I have that in my life in some way?

And so that's actually become a more core strategy.

Do you do anything like that?

Yeah.

So listen to this.

So we had this kid.

By the way, thank you for not making like an Epstein joke.

I felt like I was treading.

I was like, what you need is like 14 year old dudes that you

hang out with all the time.

It's like, yeah.

No, I, so I'm 33.

I'm just now hitting the age where I'm no longer the youngest

guy in the room.

And I'm just hitting the age where I've got 15 years or so of

experience and I'm seeing younger people and I'm like, oh,

you're full of energy.

You're going to do something, but you're making an air here and

I'm just going to let you, I'm just going to watch you make that

air because it's good for you.

I'm just now getting to the point where I'm able to be a

little wise and I'm seeing the importance of surrounding

ourselves with young people.

Here's an example.

A year ago, Sean and I did this thing where we offered $5,000

to someone who made a TikTok video from our podcast and

shared it.

One kid in particular, his name was Michael at the time he

made these videos that reached tens of millions of people for

us.

And we gave him the five grand and I went to email him and I

was like, dude, you should do this full time.

And I asked him what his email and it was like, you know,

Michael at universityofmichigan.edu.

And I was like, wait, who are you?

He goes, yeah, I just recorded this in my dorm room.

I'm like, oh, you're going to be, you're, you're on to something.

You're going to be a superstar.

Just start, send this into a company.

He turns into a company.

I guess our five K was his first money.

He makes tens of thousands of dollars a month.

Eventually sells it to morning brew.

Michael, what's Michael's name?

I don't even know.

Sikand.

Sikand.

Yeah.

And he comes over to my house and uses this studio and I just

he'll mean Sarah will be in the kitchen and I'll just go

Mike, come out to the kitchen, have a coffee with me.

And me and Sarah won't say a word and we'll just let him talk.

And I'm just like, I'm just here to see, cause he's 22 maybe.

I'm like, I'm just come to the kitchen, have some chocolate milk.

Yeah.

You want some hot cocoa?

Yeah.

Sit on my lap too while you're at it.

And like, he just talks and about 60% of the stuff that he says

is nonsense.

40% absolute nonsense.

Not just him.

Anybody who fits his category, you have to literally just

immediately throw away 60% of the words.

But what I say to him, I go, Michael, most of what you're

saying is bullshit.

And I think you might know it, but look, here's the deal.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut, a nut once in a while.

Keep on swinging.

You'll hit a home run soon because you're swinging.

You're in the game and I appreciate that about you.

And if you ever want to know what you're saying is bullshit,

just ask me and I'll tell you, but I'm not going to call you out.

I'm going to let you get away with it all because I like,

I like this gumption and he tweeted something the other day that

was hilarious.

He tweeted, got bad news.

Just got back from the chiropractor.

They said the chip on my shoulder is permanent.

How funny is that?

And I was like, this is why you're going to make something of

yourself.

Now you might ruin it by saying dub stuff and you're going to

cost yourself a whole lot of money and you're going to have a

lot of headache throughout the years until you learn to be

calmer.

But you know, he was feeling good about that line too when he

tweeted it.

He was feeling so good.

But I appreciate that this is a young kid.

So I had, I had, he moved to Austin.

I invite him over all the time and I go, just talk, man.

Just, just, just talk.

I want to hear what you got to say.

And he's telling me like, and I'm just like learning about what

like the younger generation feels about this and that.

And he's like, yeah, we're going to, he's like, he has a

birthday party coming up on Saturday and we're taking some

like new weird version of Uber.

I don't even know what it is.

Like a party bus company.

I don't even know what it is, but he's like, this is what all,

this is what we're all using.

I was like, all right, cool.

I'm in.

So yes.

Long story short, I totally am experiencing this where I have

young people around me.

Sounds weird, but let's get past that.

No, the blood strategy is a real strategy.

And, and actually this is my reminder to myself.

I need to refresh my, my young bloods are now like 24 to 25

and rich.

They're like, made it like, okay.

So Michael is one example.

The other guys who set up our initial studios here and then

created that agency clipped.

They do over a million dollars a year and revenue off their,

off their thing.

And now their, their content is going, going nuts.

Their short form videos are going nuts.

Like millions of views.

And I had to like reprimand, reprimand Henry all the time.

I was like, Hey, Henry, just so you know, you shouldn't talk

like this when you're in this meeting or something.

And then eventually I was like, you know, I'm not going to

give him advice.

I'm just going to let him learn, but I saw the same thing where

I'm like, you're making a bunch of mistakes, but you're taking

a ton of swings.

You're going to, you're going to, you're going to hit the kid.

I talked about Sarush probably has more money than me now

from crypto.

The guy has made an absolute killing in crypto over the last

few years. And so done, done incredibly well.

The guy who was my intern to start this podcast, Ishaan, who

was just like doing the video editing and like created the

initial brand name and all that stuff.

Did he like invest all of his money into like a short stock,

a short position on a penny?

No, not a short, not a short one.

He, he went all in.

He took basically, he had like a hundred grand saved up after

a couple of years of working for me and then for, for a friend

I introduced him to, and he took the hundred grand and he just

bought, there was a stock that got delisted on a stock exchange.

So all the shareholders were like, damn it, what do we do with

this stock?

We can't trade anymore.

It's like illiquid.

And so he bought it all for like 10 cents on the dollar being

like, I don't know, I still believe.

And then that ran up to be worth a few million dollars.

His, his hundred K basically turned into like a two to five

million dollar stake at that time.

Now I think it's gone down a little bit, but there's articles

about him in the Australian post or whatever now.

And I'm like, dude, this is crazy.

And another one, Steve Bartlett hired Steve when I, when he was

18, 19 years old, maybe, or maybe that's a little, maybe

maybe he's 20 at the time.

And I was like, this guy, again, just dripping with swag.

And I was like, I just want to be around this guy.

This guy's like cool.

I don't know.

He wears like rings and he like says words.

I don't know.

And like for some reason his tweets go viral.

I don't know.

Like mine don't.

So like, what does this guy know?

And sure enough, it ends up creating this social media agency,

ends up taking it public.

Has this great podcast that's super popular.

He's a shark on the shark tank of Europe.

Like this guy's like, now he's like, he's the black Gary V now.

And so it's like, there's a, it's like, dude, that's, I just

thought of six in the last 15 seconds.

Like, I don't know.

There might be even more that I'm not even remembering that

or like come from the same batch.

And I need, I need a new batch, my little personal YC.

This is good that you're talking about this.

So I was talking to a friend yesterday.

He just mentioned it.

He was talking about something totally different.

And he was like, yeah, you know, like, you know,

I made $30 million from an angel investment.

And yeah.

So this is how I found my accountant.

I did this because I was asking him for a good accountant.

And I was like, I'd be the rewind sound.

I was like, like, scratch the record.

Reverse.

Tell me about this thing.

He goes, yeah, basically I was, you know, like president of like

a smallest startup that wasn't doing so well.

And a 22 year old kid who worked for me,

he quit to start a company.

And I was, you know, frustrated at first,

but like he was real promising.

And so I invested $25,000 at a $3 million valuation.

The company went public like a year or two ago.

And it was a $15 billion valuation.

It was called a market cap.

It was called.

You know that company?

No, but okay.

It's a boring, nothing special like B2B, whatever.

And he's like, yeah, I had $75,000 at the time.

But when I was running my first startup,

I didn't have a lot of money,

but I decided to invest all of it into startups.

And I did it in sizes of 10 and $25,000.

And that one check that I did of $25,000,

it turned into $30 million.

And, and I was like, are you kidding me?

He goes, yeah, basically like, I knew this kid was strong.

And I wanted to be part of just whatever he was in.

I wanted to surround myself with young people.

And I thought he was promising.

And in fact, it worked out really well.

And I made so much money off of this one deal.

And he goes, and then the other one he said,

it made like a 10 X return as well.

And he just got super lucky on that one.

And it totally worked out.

So it was crazy story.

And I'm like, well, I've invested in a bunch of companies.

I'm waiting for that to happen.

That'd be nice.

Yeah, exactly.

What part do I do for the 30 billion?

Is there a line for that?

Am I the right line?

Yeah.

So it worked out.

It's a crazy story.

I have a meaty one.

Another publicly traded company.

This is a big deal.

And it kind of has not been made a big deal in the media because.

It's, I guess, not that big a deal to them.

It's a billion dollar company.

But basically our friend, Andrew Wilkinson,

friend of the pod, friend of ours,

we're going to be with him in Vancouver on February 16th.

So if you want to come see us live.

He basically.

By the way, I got a preference this now that he's a publicly

traded company.

Everything that I'm going to say, I just Googled it.

This is all just from Google.

I didn't ask him anything and a lot of its guesses,

but not all of it.

He basically had a company that was publicly traded called we,

we commerce.

And it was not doing great.

It like peaked at like 500 million went down to 80 million.

Anyway, he's doing a reverse takeover.

No, sorry.

He's doing a merge and he's his company,

which is called tiny, which buys businesses.

It's going public.

And Andrew owns roughly 71% of the shares.

And it's going public at a nearly billion dollar valuation.

Who knows what it's going to actually trade out.

But if it trades out what they want it to trade at,

that's about 700 to 800 million dollars that Andrew will have

from it all starting with a bootstrap agency.

And I want to walk through his journey.

And I think this is amazing.

It's pretty mind blowing.

Okay.

The, by the way, the billion dollars.

Is this one problem?

By the way, is that all of his numbers were in Canadian dollars.

All CAD instead of USD.

So is this a billion CAD or is this a billion USD?

Everything I'm going to say is Canadian.

And I don't know what the conversion rate is.

Monopoly money to USD, but like it's,

it's somewhere close enough that we're still in the same ballpark.

Yeah.

So I think it's,

I think it's a little bit more like 700 million is the,

the number that basically just discounted something like 20, 30%.

Yeah.

Andrew's in CAD is Canadian.

Andrew's in Canada.

If you ever really want to inflate something, right?

Like if you're five nine,

you're, you're five 11 CAD.

So just, just go CAD and you'll, you know, get that action,

get that little extra that you feel you've been missing your whole life.

So dude, this story, it's really impressive.

Andrew comes to the pod and we mess with them, but like this is,

we treat him like he's one of us.

What he's pulled off is like, not one of us, man.

It's pretty epic.

He's actually more like 20 of us.

If you add it all up.

He's the Brian Scalabridi of rich guys.

You know what I mean?

Like this is the Scalage.

He's the worst billionaire I know, but he's the best millionaire I know.

Yeah.

For sure.

I mean, he's killing it.

So listen to this.

So basically the company that is taking public it at this point has,

and this, now this stuff is actually public.

It's doing about 150 million in revenue, 50 million in EBITDA.

And so here's the story.

So 2006 Andrew was, I think 19, he started a web design agency called

meta lab and meta lab is like the core of all this in year one,

it had $250,000 in revenue.

And basically what he's doing is he's doing like design stuff.

So one of his big famous clients was before Slack was Slack,

Stuart Butterfield.

He, you know, reached out to Andrew said, Hey, help me design Slack.

And like, I don't know.

It's web interfacing, which frankly, I don't even know entirely the,

the whole scope of that work, but like more than logos,

but including logos, I believe, right?

More than logos.

That should be their tagline.

No, it was definitely draw good.

We draw, we draw good plus more logos and more.

No, it was, it was web interfacing.

So it was actually fairly technical, but in year one,

it did 250,000 in revenue with a 50% profit margin in year 2019.

So three years in, it was doing about a couple hundred thousand in profit

and it doubled for a couple of years and then grew by 30% a year.

So 2012, you're six years in only three million in revenue,

not like crazy out of this league.

Like, you know, he's, he's kind of like what people say about us is you're relatable.

And whatever people say that I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to be relatable.

I want to be way out of your least.

Yeah.

They say you're so, you're so authentic.

You're so relatable.

I'm like, what I like about you guys is you're not that successful and you're pretty dumb.

So it just feels good.

Yeah.

And so that, that's exactly how it feels.

So he was relatable.

So in year six, three million in revenue.

But after that, it grows 30% a year, which, which if you add up 30% annual growth by 2020,

you're at something like 20 million revenue by 2023, you're in like the 40 or 50 range.

And the reason why Andrew's agency works so well is, and I actually think this won't work.

This doesn't work as much anymore is he's based out of Victoria.

I don't even, I'm such, I'm so ignorant.

I don't even know what state province it is.

Minnesota, but a little higher.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's in like, yeah, he's in like the Boise of Canada.

Yeah, upper Idaho, I guess.

And so what that means is he's paying those wages, but he's charging Silicon Valley, British Columbia,

Ben just corrected me.

There you go.

British Columbia, whatever that is.

I don't know what he said is on the monopoly board, but it's somewhere around there.

And so he's charging Silicon Valley prices to like the slacks of the world.

So these high end prices, but he's paying Canadian wages.

So that margin is fat.

And so that's why he's able to take, make all this profit.

And he starts taking his profit and he starts launching companies and it doesn't work so well.

He launches one little software company.

I forget what it was called flow.

I think it was basically like an Asana competitor.

Does it work out?

He's like, I invested too much money.

He goes, fuck this.

What if I just buy a company?

He reads a book on Warren Buffett and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could do this.

And that's his new hero.

He turns into a Buffett guy and he starts buying businesses and he buys a couple that are doing okay.

But then he buys one that becomes like the crown jewel of this whole business.

So this whole thing, tiny, there's, I think there's two crown jewels.

There's meta lab, which we can guess is doing 40 or 50 million revenue, 20 million in profit.

That's the cash flow engine of this whole thing of being able to buy these companies.

Then he buys dribble, which is basically like GitHub for designers.

So designers go to this website and they upload their portfolios.

Other people can share your portfolio.

You send it to employers.

They can comment, you get inspiration, whatever.

Now, I don't have all the details on this, but if I had to guess,

dribble was launched by two founders who weren't very business savvy and it had a lot of traffic,

but they're like, dude, we don't know how to like make money off this.

And Andrew buys it from them.

I imagine if I had to guess, I bet you he buys it for five to $10 million.

Turns this thing into a behemoth, making, now it's making many tens of millions of dollars.

If I had to guess it's worth $200 million or higher.

This is just pure guess.

And that becomes a crown jewel of this company, tiny.

And so now he's got these two agencies or a meta lab and dribble.

And then he's also has now, what do they own?

Like 15 other companies and he's taking it public.

This whole period, he's bootstrapping this thing.

So meta lab is the one that's paying for everything.

He's hires a CEO to run meta lab.

And because of that, he basically owns like 90% of meta lab.

And now he owns, what did I say, 70% of these tiny shares.

And then his other partner in the business owns like 10%.

So him and Chris is his partner,

own 80% of this publicly traded company that's hoping to go public in the billion dollar range.

This is just a crazy, fascinating story.

And I can't believe he's pulled this off.

Yeah, I got to be careful what I say,

because I invested in tiny recently when it was private.

So I kind of know more of the numbers,

but I don't know what's public versus what was private.

Am I in the ballpark of everything?

Yeah, I think you're in the ballpark.

I think the, maybe the dribble valuation may be a little bit high,

but you're right that those two things make up like, you know,

it's like, cause I guess here's my,

here's where this kind of broke for me.

And this is maybe not that interesting.

It's just my personal frame broken, broken a good way.

In a good way, which was, I thought he'd been around doing this for way longer.

It was actually 2016 when he started like buying other companies.

And that's not that long ago.

We met him in, I don't know.

I met him in, I want to say 2020.

Yeah.

That's four years in and it was,

but I've known about him.

He was like a personality.

Yeah, exactly.

He always had this like cool looking avatar.

His pictures always look cool.

He was like a designer.

So his hair was always slicked back and the others like,

we all looked like dorks.

He was like kind of good looking in his pictures and stuff like that.

Yeah.

It just shows what a good head of hair can do for you.

And, you know, I think that's the real takeaway.

Number one, number two, this segment is brought to you by hymns.

Number three.

No.

So, so I think that that was the first thing which was, wow,

this was actually built up in a relatively, like on one hand,

it's a long period of time cause he's been started MetaLab a long time ago.

So that part you got to give credit for that.

Oh, wow.

2006.

And then he grinded it out year after year building the service business up.

But on the other hand, the portfolio side of things was relatively new.

So I thought that was really interesting.

The second thing I assumed that the portfolio was a lot more,

a lot flatter, a lot more parody.

So maybe like there were, you know, five to 10 companies,

all of sort of equal value pitching in each one, like, you know,

five to 10% of the overall value of the pie.

And that's how you get like, you know, 70% or something like that.

And the rest is MetaLab.

And in fact, it was kind of like, like a venture portfolio in a way

where a couple of the companies were really the standout ones

that were driving most of the value.

And I think for them, it was actually three.

There was the, the one they took, they originally took public.

So we commerce, which is basically their Shopify apps.

So the Shopify app rollup, I think was, was one winner dribbles

another winner and MetaLab is another winner.

And to me, everything else is nice.

But now that those are such big winners that they make up so much revenue

and so much EBITDA that the others are almost like rounding errors

at the moment.

That's a little bit harsh, I would say, but like, you know,

so maybe that's, maybe that's a little too harsh, but just comparatively,

it wasn't like this portfolio of a dozen equally sized companies,

which maybe I never should have assumed that in the first place.

But when you hear somebody is doing a portfolio, you sort of think,

okay, it's going to be sort of more smoothly distributed out.

But, but it was actually a little bit more concentrated in a few key,

key winners that just really kept compounding at a high rate.

So yeah, so I think that's, that's amazing.

I think what he's done is amazing, like to build this level of a,

of a sort of empire in this short amount of time is pretty awesome.

And the biggest thing is I love that he did it his way.

Like there really wasn't anybody doing exactly what he was doing.

Of course, there's private equity, right?

But he wasn't doing it like private equity because he wasn't looking to flip.

He's looking to buy and hold.

So then you have sort of, okay, okay, who's doing permanent equity?

Who's doing a buy and hold strategy?

Okay, there's some people doing it, but they all raised money.

He used his own company's profits to do it.

So that's pretty dope.

And then he branded it and was more public about it versus these kind of more under the radar.

It's like, oh, you, you're part of like maple oak capital.

What is that?

You know, I go to your website, it's got two lines.

It just says we acquire software companies.

And it's like, okay, I don't know what this means.

Whereas he built kind of like a sexy brand out of it.

So I think there was a bunch of things he did that were pretty cool.

Like even his term sheet, he's like, oh, I read that Warren Buffett basically, you know,

will meet a company, understand it and then write a one sheet, a one page, you know, like term sheet for them to just, you know,

are they going to take this deal or not?

He doesn't do this like complicated lawyer process.

If he can buy a billion dollar company with, with a one or two pager,

then I should be able to buy this $3 million company with a one pager.

And so he took, you know, he took that approach and I think did a good job branding what he was doing along the way.

Yeah.

There's a few more takeaways and then I want to hear yours if you have any extra ones.

The first is that you said that he did this quickly.

Yeah, kind of.

But he also did it really slowly.

The acquisitions part only.

Yeah.

The acquisition part, but he basically started in 2006 and then he didn't really hit his stride until 2016.

So that's 10 years of having an agency.

Now he didn't run the agency the whole time.

He ran it for a little while and then he also hired people.

And so I'm, I'm sure he was managing it to some extent, but slow is good in some cases.

And the second thing is that he didn't raise money for an agency.

And because of that, he had so much freedom.

The second you raise money that, that your cap table is one of the few things that you can't reverse or it's really hard.

And he didn't raise money for a company that.

MetaLab should not have raised money and it did not raise money.

And because of that, he was able to use the profits to invest in shit versus if you raise money, they're like, no, don't use those profits to do other things,

reinvest them and make this thing bigger.

The next thing is financial maneuvering.

Like, you know, I joke that I like don't know anything about finances.

It's kind of like his like thing.

I think that like him knowing how.

I think he's built that skill up over time, right?

Didn't, didn't know it initially, but, but yeah, has, he can create a lot of value.

A lot of people do this now, they can create a lot of value by increasing their financial IQ.

Like taking WeCommerce public via SPAC in 2020 when the timing was perfect required some combination of being prepared with a good business.

Secondly, you know, identifying the timing and saying now is the time go aggressively.

And third is like just having the financial IQ to go with the balls to be able to actually go pull something like that off.

100%.

The next thing is where you live, it can actually matter a lot.

Now, I think that this gap of Silicon Valley wages and Victoria Canada wages might be closed a little bit.

It's closer at least than it was before that gap is smaller, but this still exists in other places.

I know I have friends that have built pretty big businesses are building them right now and they're using Indian talent versus American talent and they're getting great products.

So you do this podcast.

Guilty. And then the final thing is hiring and negotiating the way he negotiated with his CEOs and kept them happy while also retaining equity.

So I don't know like how he pays people.

Like I imagine he pays them with just tons of cash.

So that's like, you're like, well, that's easy.

You just pay overpay people.

But anyway, it's still like really impressive how he's able to negotiate and hire and manage people.

I've heard from a bunch of his CEOs where they're like, when things are going fine, I don't ever hear from them.

And I love that.

And then, of course, I imagine there's times when things are going fine.

He's like, all right, dude, come on, we got to we got to like push this a little harder.

But he's done a really good job of hiring.

And anyway, this whole thing that he's pulled off.

I messaged him and I was like, this sounds like an insult.

Yeah, we got to clap.

We'll clap for him.

I was like, dude, this sounds like this sounds like an insult.

But do you ever just sit with like a shit eating grin and just laugh and like a little evil laugh and be like, got him.

I pulled off this caper because that's kind of what it feels like because he makes it look easy.

And of course, it's never easy.

There's like, there's times where he'll message me is like, dude, I feel like I'm in the dumps or I feel overwhelmed.

He's human.

But he's done a really good job of doing it his way.

Almost to the point where I'm like, dude, you got to be smirking right now.

Like, it's that feeling like when you get successful and you think of all your ex-girlfriends who like made fun of you.

It's like, you fuck it.

Yeah.

Oh, me only.

That thing.

Yeah, you know that thing.

No, no, no, I got you, bro.

Don't worry.

You know, like, you know, you know that that that shelf you have with like the names of all your enemies marked on like champagne bottles.

You know, like when you pop that cork off, whatever you like to rub it.

Take a lock of their hair and you just set it on fire with the lighters.

What are you talking about?

But he's pulled it off.

Let me, let me, let me also say another thing.

You know that there are people that are masters of engineering, you know, people that are, you know, fantastic leaders.

But you know, I'm the dawn of storytelling and Andrew is a great storyteller.

So people should go read his Dribble 2.0 blog post.

It's on medium.

So just Google Dribble 2.0, Andrew Wilkinson.

And here.

Okay, Sam, how do most people announce an acquisition?

Go just, just give me your generic thing.

Yeah.

It's like, we are so, we are so, we're so pleased.

We're so pleased.

They built a really nice business and we're happy to be stewards of this business and we're really looking forward to the future.

And then like the sellers, like, you know, we were looking for a nice home for Dribble.

Perfect partner.

And this is a perfect partner and we're excited for the future.

Just nonsense.

No, absolute, absolute soulless Dribble.

So here's, here's what he, he did and said.

So here's, I'm just going to read a little snippet of this because I think people should pick up on the storytelling too.

I think that helps.

So he goes, when I first started MetaLab, Dan Cedarholm was my hero.

A great opening line, a great, because I don't know who this guy is.

And now I'm like, why is this person your hero?

He goes, this bulletproof web was the first book I read.

I used to reverse engineer his style sheets on simple bits to learn his CSS tricks.

Anything he did, I did.

And I drove my front end developers nuts trying to get them to implement every little one pixel detail that I learned from Dan.

So already you're like, okay, this is interesting.

He's basically setting the context of like, that's the guy who started Dribble.

And he's like, it's not just I bought Dribble and I'm pleased to, you know, raise prices in six months.

He's like, you know, I, I've admired this guy.

This guy is my hero.

I learned from him.

And so when he, so let me keep going.

So he goes, I remember meeting another favorite designer, Dave, Dave Shea at a conference back in 2008.

He mentioned that he knew Dan on my floor, my jaw hit the floor.

Wait, what?

The CSS drop shadows, the cork logo.

He's the best.

What's he like?

I was gushing, blah, blah, blah.

I wasn't just a fan boy.

I was his web standards fan boy, blah, blah, blah.

Then he keeps going and he goes, one of the projects that Dan did was Dribble, which he co-founded with whoever I had used it, blah, blah, blah, which is why I'm excited.

I'm excited to share the big news, right?

So just that little paragraph of setup, it draws you in in a way that like he could have just done a standard boring.

I roll press release and instead he decided to do it this way.

And then he talks about kind of like that it wasn't just like, therefore we've acquired it and it's done.

He's like, I was bugging them and bugging them.

I kept emailing them every month, asking them if they would let me in.

He's like, this September, if my moxie finally paid off, he emailed me saying they might do it.

They cared about these three things.

I wouldn't mess it up.

I have a long-term view and I want them to stay involved and own a piece of the business.

We shook hands and made a deal, blah, blah, blah.

And then he tells the rest of the, you know, then he does the standard stuff about we're excited.

It's going to be great.

And I just thought that was just a way better way of doing it than the average person would do it.

And if you add up a lot of doing things better than the average person would do it,

you end up with this type of exceptional outcome.

Dude, it's just great, man.

I have a lot of respect from them.

There's always like this little bit of envy in me when I talk to Andrew because he's my friend and I consider us peers.

And then he'll make jokes about like what he's doing on the weekend and like, oh, that's sick.

But I'm proud of him.

I feel like I feel I feel a lot of pride like on his vote kind of for him.

And I'm very happy that he's pulled this off.

And I think it's really impressive.

And I think that it's badass that people are that there are people that are bold enough to do things their way.

Regardless of what the nerds and vests and from Stanford tell you the way you should do it.

And I imagine that along the way, he got a lot of flak making fun of him from being in Canada for not raising money for buying these little quote little things.

And I guess that's the fucking name of the company, tiny.

But he just like pulled it off and I appreciate that gumption and I appreciate that boldness.

And I find it inspiring and I'm happy that like we have him in our life.

So that's my little love note to Andrew. Good job.

Love letter to Andrew Wilkinson.

Yeah.

And if you want to, we're going to Canada.

We're going to be there February 16th.

And Andrew, if you're listening to this, you want to fly us up there private.

That's cool.

If you want to celebrate.

We know how much money you have now.

Look, let's celebrate.

I was one friend.

Invite another over.

Let's celebrate by flying private together.

Except we'll be like, you don't have to be there.

And Sean and I will each be in different planes.

So we have an allowance.

Can you send us a card with just an allowance?

That would be tight.

Anyway, that's my breakdown of tiny.

He deserved it.

That was good.

All right.

I had another one, but let's let's save it for the next to save the next episode because it's getting all along now.

All right.

That's the pod.

I think that was a banger.

We forgot to remind people if you made it this far, there is a gentleman's agreement.

If you have a content that you're listening to, it is not free.

We're like one of the only places on YouTube actually where the content is not free.

You have to pay.

What do you have to pay with?

That's your cue, Sean.

Oh, I was enthralled.

I was ready for you to just keep going.

I thought you were on one.

Go ahead.

You have to pay something in order to listen to this channel.

If you've listened to more than one thing, you have to do me a favor.

Go to the YouTube page and click subscribe because that like helps us.

Or you know what?

What I'm going to ask people to do.

If you're listening to this on like Apple or Spotify, share this.

Share on Twitter, LinkedIn, all that stuff.

And we're even.

So you listen to us.

I just spent hours on this research, by the way.

And you spent $15 million of lost money in order to make this content.

To tell that story.

Yep.

To tell that story.

I believe in front of you.

So this is not free.

You've seen my blood subscribe to the channel.

Yeah.

This channel is not free.

You have to click subscribe on YouTube because we're trying to build up our YouTube.

And you have to click subscribe and follow on the spot.

And by the way, what I like people go in the comments on YouTube and they just say they

honored the gentleman's agreement and I go to each one and I just say from handshakes,

from handshakes to you, from handshakes to you too.

So that's what you have to do.

And by the way, I read every comment on those YouTube things.

All right, we're out of here.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.