Mamamia Out Loud: Hot Girl Glimmers

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Mamma Mia Out Loud!

Hello and welcome to a historic edition of Mamma Mia Out Loud, where women are actually

talking about on Monday, August the 21st.

I'm Holly Wainwright.

I'm Mia Friedman and that's it.

We've had a bit of a Monday morning here at Loudness and our beloved Claire Stevens

is really poorly, as I call it, she's a bit sick.

So she called in and said, I can't work today and we're like, oh, no problem.

You rest up.

We've got so many people who can fill your chair.

They won't do a good job, but we're like, nobody could fill our chair.

They won't do a good job.

No, no, I meant as good a job as her.

You know, you've got to do that with someone.

Yeah, yeah.

So we were like, we'll go to our bins.

We've got Elfie, we've got Claire, they're all amazing, Murphy, they're all fantastic.

We even asked Jessie if she'd leave them baby and hope.

Finally, Campbell, as we got further down the list, we came to Jessie, could you interrupt

your maternity leave?

I was very impressed with her boundaries.

She said, no, I'm feeding too often and I was like, good for you, but also we're screwed.

So out loud as you are getting something that has never happened before on Mom and Me

Out Loud in our very long history, which is a two-hander, you're going to get to Eve's

drop on a conversation between just Mia and I as if you were at dinner with us.

So on the show today, on the historic show today, last night, the Women's World Cup finished

in a glorious performance from Spain.

So why were the players refusing to celebrate the win with their coach, who also kept getting

booed by the crowd?

Plus, from girl dinners to hot girl walks and girl mats, why the world is suddenly girlified

and why it's a bit of a problem, at least I think so.

And what are glimmers?

Why do we need them and do you have them?

First, in case you missed it, Wedding Bells were ringing over the weekend in Long Beach

Island in New Jersey, where music producer Jack Antonoff and actor Margaret Coley were

married in front of their many celebrity friends.

However, all was not well.

The rehearsal dinner the night before was almost ruined by over excited fans of one

of the celebrity guests, Taylor Swift, which begs the question, is it ever a good idea

to invite really famous people to your wedding?

I think it's not.

Definitely not.

There were so many famous people at this wedding, right?

Because Margaret Coley is Andy McDowell's daughter for weddings in a funeral.

So if there was anyone who knows a thing about being at times outshone by people more famous

than you, it would be her.

It would be her.

Because she's a nepo baby, as they say.

She's a nepo baby and Antonoff is like one of the biggest deal producers in the music

business, right?

He works with everyone and he was most famous while he was dating Lena Dunham for quite

a few years and he's dated lots of different people and so has Margaret Coley.

She was dating Pete Davidson at one stage.

So this is their world and I guess if you don't invite those people, you'll have a

small guest list.

But if you do, they'll ruin your life.

So what happened when Taylor turned up?

The Swifties flooded the surrounding roads and knocked on the windows of the restaurant,

which seems quite rude.

That's where the dinner was taking place and they were chanting Taylor's name, which

must have been very awkward for everyone.

Like you wouldn't like that.

So then police came to try and control all the crowds and the crowd started booing when

the restaurant closed the balcony curtains to try and give the happy couple some privacy.

You know what this made me think?

Remember there was that Hollywood wedding when Harry Styles and Olivia Wilde debuted

as a couple and there were so many pictures of it and I was like those poor people who

were actually getting married that day that nobody remembers who they were, they were just

helicopters trying to get Harry and Olivia.

But so A that but also it made me think is Taylor Swift's life a bit shit because this

must follow her everywhere she goes or was it because she wasn't in control of that situation?

I think that's the point.

So I think that yes, this does happen and she's spoken about how difficult it is for her and

how she doesn't like it.

She's in the middle of a record breaking world tour at the moment.

There were other famous people there as well, Channing Tatum, Lana Del Rey, Zoe Kravitz,

Ryan Reynolds, Cara DeLavigne.

Imagine her stress of being the bride of that wedding and being like everybody's diet

trees would be through the roof.

I think that because Margaret Coley, she was the actor from Maid, so she's an actor in

her own right as well and Jack Antonoff and Taylor are so close.

He's been the producer on most of her albums in the last few years.

So I think it wasn't that she was just like an outer circle, she's inner circle.

But I think you've nailed it.

Jack Antonoff and Margaret Coley could have probably got married quite quietly and no

one would have really known.

So they wouldn't have thought to gear their wedding around that level of fame.

But when you were Taylor Swift, your whole life would be geared around that level of

fame.

Yeah, exactly.

Fake reservations.

Exactly.

And the venue choice would be based on security and all those kinds of things.

But you know, all that stuff's pretty pricey.

And I don't know, for Taylor Swift, would I maybe just not go because I wouldn't want

to pull focus?

You need a very secure bride, don't you?

You could disguise yourself as like Uncle.

Yeah, I was thinking about that.

So Mia, football expert, you now know because you've watched a few soccer games over the

past couple of weeks that at the end, when someone wins, they jump around a lot.

You know, just that everybody jumps around a lot.

Yeah, I love the part where in the Women's World Cup, I like watching the connections

between the players on the opposing teams because not everybody goes up to the other

players, but obviously there are some women who play in teams together or who've known

each other for many years or who've maybe even dated before and they go up and they

comfort each other and I like those real human moments of connection.

Well, what they also usually do is they go up to their coach and the coaching staff and

they all have a big like love in and everybody's like, you're amazing.

But last night, I'm sure this will be news to you, but Spain won the World Cup.

Spain made history at Sydney's of course stadium after claiming their first ever Women's World

Cup title.

They defeated European champions England 1-0 in what was a thrilling final, ending what

has been a record breaking tournament.

They were playing England.

It was a very exciting game.

Anyway, when Spain won and they played like, it was like they were tap dancing.

They were just next level amazing.

But when they won, there are some images going viral now of how the players all went to one

end of the pitch and got in a huddle and like had their happy moment and the coach and his

coaching staff all went to the other end of the pitch and we're in a huddle.

And this is because there is a big rift between the players and their coach in Spain.

Right.

He's a guy called Jorge Vilda and he's very handsome as out loud as have noticed and alerted

us to during important games.

But he's also notoriously a bit of a controlling asshole, I'm going to say it.

And so much so that quite a lot of really high profile Spanish female players have

refused to play for him.

Wow.

And so some of their most famous players weren't even at this World Cup and yet they

really won it.

Right.

So he's that contentious that they boycotted the World Cup because they didn't want to

like work for him essentially.

Yeah.

Essentially, they said while he's in charge, the atmosphere, the environment that he creates

with his coaching staff is not healthy.

Now, the thing is, is what we all want to know is, yeah, what does he do?

What's the problem?

And it's actually very hard to get those details because I think there's probably a lot

of legals involved in this, but so much so that last year after the Euro championships,

so after another big championship, 15 of Spain's biggest female players all wrote

identical emails and letters and sent them to the Football Federation saying, we want

him sacked, right?

We won't play for him.

And the Football Federation backed him and froze out the players.

Did they say why?

So they said that his regime was affecting their health and emotional state, but they

didn't talk about specifics.

If you dig a lot, a couple of examples of this are things like, so he's been coaching

Spain since 2015 and he came up through the youth ranks.

So a lot of the players who played last night and were amazing are really young.

They're like 19, 20.

He's sort of nurtured them and brought them up.

And one example you can find is that until recently, he wouldn't let the players lock

their hotel room doors before midnight when they were traveling.

What does that mean?

I think it suggests that his regimen is very controlling as in, I want to know where you

are, who you're with, what are you doing, you know, that level of stuff.

Right.

There isn't a lot more detail to it.

But for example, today, when the news broke everywhere that Spain had won, a lot of

high-profile female players, including some high-profile Americans came out and said,

this is such a bittersweet win because we can't say what he's done, but it's

obviously something terrible and one day it will all come out.

And it's bullshit that he's being celebrated.

So my question is, well, many questions.

We don't know exactly what the details are, but he's clearly very good at his job,

right, because that team are amazing.

And they, you know, despite the fact that their most famous player, Marpie Leon, didn't

come because she hates him so much, about three of the 15 who wrote letters last year did

cave and came for their opportunity to play in the World Cup, but the others got frozen

out, so treated badly by the Football Federation or the rest of it.

If he's a brilliant boss, great coach who gets results, but his methods for doing it

are awful, where does that leave us?

Wow, I don't know enough to understand how much is down to the players and how much

is down to the coach.

And Tony Gustafson, the Matilda's coach, is amazing.

And when they had that disappointing run in whatever it was, the world championships

or something for years ago, he was like, I take full responsibility.

I'm the coach.

And there were questions about whether he would get sucked because even though the

players like missed the goals and whatever, they're the ones on the field.

But I guess in any sport, the coach has to take responsibility.

Is that right?

Yeah, they do.

And so, for example, Tony Gustafson seems to be the opposite of this guy.

When you watch that documentary, you can see that he's very nurturing, very like,

we're a big family, bring your kids to training.

We're all together, you know, and all of those things.

If the Matilda's hadn't have got out of the group stages, he would have lost his

job immediately.

Like football coaches get fired for a few losses.

It's kind of like TV exec, you know, like if a show's ratings dive, they'll fire

the director or their father producer, or they'll fire the head of programming,

whatever, it's kind of like that.

So it's high stakes being a football coach.

But the problem is, if you are winning, and this is a bit like, I guess you

could talk about Hollywood or whatever, if you're winning, if you're creating

hits, if you're making money for people, you get away with a lot.

So it seems like this guy, although we don't know the details of what he's done,

if 15 of his most accomplished players felt comfortable enough to say, we don't

want to play for him.

Isn't that amazing, though, that the Football Federation backed him and not them?

I wonder if they would have done that.

If this was male soccer, I don't want to get all like, too flag-wavy about it.

But in sort of traditional sports where the players are being paid millions and

millions of dollars, their opinions matter more.

Do you know what I mean?

Of course.

But I mean, a mass uprising of players, they'll never get rid of him now because

they've won the World Cup.

So his methods, essentially, he could say have been vindicated, whatever they are.

But what happens now to that team, to the women who won't play for it anymore?

Will they just not ever play for their country?

They might never play for the country while he's there.

And what a lot of people are saying is we can probably expect a documentary

in some time in the future, because when all this blows over, what could be a better story?

Last week, a video about GirlMath made by our own Claire Stevens went viral.

Luca, I'm going to teach you the concept of GirlMath.

So, $400 handbag.

And you say, they're expensive.

Too much money.

What if that handbag, I use that handbag every single day?

I'm going to use it for work.

I'm going to use it for trouble.

I am going to use it as my going out bag.

That's good, but it doesn't change the price of the bag.

OK, what if that bag is going to last me?

$400 divided by $2.65 is how much?

So you're telling me that my handbag is a dollar a day?

It's pretty much free.

And that is GirlMath.

We first spoke about this idea when Claire brought it to the show,

but I think you're a way, Hull.

And I know you have thoughts which we should get out in the open immediately.

What are your thoughts about GirlMath?

I hate it.

I hate it.

And I don't want anyone to think I'm only saying this

because Claire Stevens isn't here

because I wanted to talk about it with Claire Stevens.

And I also don't want anyone to think that I don't think

that Claire Stevens is very funny and brilliant on this.

And also, the reason that this obviously has gone viral

and, I mean, the out louders loved it so much

is because it is very relatable.

It speaks to a truth.

But the reason I hate it is because it's too true.

So for myself, for example, I'm now a grown-up woman.

I have always been terrible with money.

Like, it's the most stereotypical part of my life is that, you know,

I might earn more money.

I'm kind of the breadwinner in our family.

Our domestic arrangement is unconventional, all those things.

But probably the most stereotypically female thing about me is I'm like,

I can't do maths.

I don't understand money.

But when you say you're bad with money,

do you mean you spend too much of it?

You're not a big spender.

No, but I mean that there have been times in my life,

in my 20s, for example, when I had massive credit card debt.

Jessie's new book touches on this,

but I remember being in my early 20s

and getting my first ever credit card

and I couldn't believe it.

Like, I couldn't believe that there's free money, right?

And I can remember exactly the shop I was in

and the first thing I bought with it.

And then literally, I'm really ashamed of this, by the way.

Like, this is why I feel quite strongly about this issue.

By the time I was about 30, I had a huge credit card debt.

It was one of those things that when I met Brent, my partner,

and we, you know, we're looking at getting a mortgage and merging our money,

I had to have one of those conversations where I had to say,

this is mortifying, but I have all this debt

because I was really financially illiterate and bad with money.

And to be honest, I still am.

Like, I'm not a frivolous spender,

but when I hear the girl maths stuff,

which again, like, I so respected, so funny, it's so true,

but it's like, no, you know what I mean?

I don't want to make light of the fact

that women are bad with money in inverted commons.

So do you mean that it buys into a stereotype?

I do, and I think it also encourages us a little bit.

To be dumb.

To be dumb.

And I know the irony here is that most of the young women I work with

are actually really good with money when we talk about money

and they want to talk about money, which is a step.

I'm one of those people who hates talking about money.

In the old days, when your bank statements used to get delivered,

I never opened them, not even once, and they would pile up.

I wish I was better, so it's a real point of shame for me.

And so when I was looking at girl maths,

I'm like, it is funny and it is true,

but we shouldn't be celebrating it.

And then I read this piece that I think you shared from Vox

about the girlification of everything.

Yeah, because it's not just maths.

And whether it's fun or whether it's serious.

Correct.

And before we get to that, I just, on the subject of girl maths,

it's interesting because in defence of girl maths,

I'm probably similar to you in that I was good at maths at school, actually.

I really loved maths at school.

I loved it.

But I'm also not great with money.

I'm not the one in my family that looks after the money.

What I like about girl maths and that video and Claire talking about it

was that everyone thinks, oh, I thought it was just me.

Yeah, it's so true.

Now, as you said, it's not just maths

that is becoming part of this micro trend involving the word girl.

People on TikTok and everywhere else on the internet

are talking about their girl dinners,

which amount to thrown together plates of whatever happens to be in the fridge.

They're going on hot girl walks, which are just walks.

They're having feral girl summers in America.

That sounds like a good time.

I'm not sure what that is.

They attempt to determine via viral Pinterest mood boards,

whether they're strawberry girls or cherry girls or vanilla girls

or coastal cowgirls or rat girls or downtown girls or OK OK OK girls

or La La La girls.

Don't worry about those last two because they were just TikTok trends

that lasted about five minutes.

They also girl boss and a girl mouth with their gorgeous, gorgeous

girlies during hot girl summer and they are trying to become clean girls

or that girls and when they fail, they become evidently insufferable girls.

So this idea of the girlification of everything

results in this discourse that ends up basically amounting to girls

equal wrong and or stupid.

Even when half the time the original video is made for people who already knew

it was kind of stupid or meant to be a joke.

So you could say that because all of these trends are being made by women

for women or articulated by women for women, isn't it ironic?

Yeah, really, we're just reclaiming or naming things or no,

terms to things that already exist that we already do,

which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing.

And this Fox article points out that for the most part,

because it's women who are engaging and participating in these girl trends,

they're not really trends at all.

They're actually marketing campaigns.

Definitely they are.

But isn't it the girl bit that's the problem?

Like, because if it was women and it's not a snappy,

nobody wants to talk about women dinner, women dinner, but hot women summer.

But it's like we're and again, maybe this is because it's being reclaimed.

Like I always hated when you'd walk into a restaurant or whatever

and people go, hello, girls, what are you having today?

And you're like, I'm 35 or whatever.

Don't call me a girl.

It was diminishing.

But this is about reclaiming it, right?

It is reclaiming it.

And I went deep on this and discovered a really interesting explanation

about what it means when we call women girls, because it very much depends

who's doing the calling.

So if a guy says, hey, girls, it can feel different to if you talk about,

hey, we're going on a girls trip or let's go on a girls night.

Let's organize the next girls night out, right?

And this is why it was this essay from 2016 called, what does it mean

when we call women girls that was referenced in this article?

And it says that being a girl is not about being defined as a wife

or a mother, which are synonymous with women.

So when you say woman, for better or worse, what it means to be a woman

in our society historically has meant that you're a wife or a mother.

But being a girl is a particular life stage where you're not defined

by your relationship to anyone else.

So when you are an adult woman and you call yourself a girl,

it's actually a return to the pursuit of self-actualization.

So in and just like that, the most recent one,

Carrie sells her apartment to the woman who lives downstairs

for a ridiculously low fee, allegedly, and she says to Seema,

the real estate friend, I wanted a single girl to have it.

Yeah, look who it is.

Carrie Bradshaw and the luckiest girl in New York.

Are you going to call me that every time you see me?

For the price you got this apartment, you will never have any other name.

I wanted to give it to a single girl, even though she's in her fifties.

She sees single girl Carrie as a different person.

Like the girl bit is this like freedom.

So girl speaks to like the freedom years kind of exactly.

In 2015, there was another girl trend

that was going through the publishing industry.

You might remember that it started with Gillian Flynn's gone girl

and Paula Hawkins, the girl on the train, they were these big hits.

And then suddenly stores were flooded with books marketed in an attempt

to match their success by just slapping the word girl on it.

And then in early 2010s, Girl Fever broke out of publishing

and it was the time of the girl boss, the girl with the dragon tattoo movies

and TV shows like New Girl, Good Girls Revolt, Two Break Girls

and even Lena Dunham's Girls, even though in all of the cases,

all of the girls in question were women.

It's so funny because, of course,

and I guess that's probably why it's a bit grating,

because when you're putting girl on anything,

you're making that delineation that you've very well spelled out.

I mean, this is not a grown-up woman with a job, a partner and children

and obligations and responsibility.

It also feels like that's saying that women aren't sexy and interesting.

And when I say sexy, I don't mean literally.

I mean, as in sexy in a marketing sense, sexy in a I want to watch that sense.

But girls are, you know what I mean?

So if we can go, hey, girls, like, what's the picture in your mind?

A group of young, attractive women out for brunch, you know?

But although there was a group of women in here, am I thinking,

oh, maybe they were like wearing chunky necklaces and statement glasses

and you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

And that's a little bit offensive.

I don't know. I feel like it's a reclaiming

bias of a word that is nostalgic for us in a good way.

It sort of speaks to there can be a heaviness about the word woman, right?

And with girls, which is sad, though,

it's like being a woman is hard work, but being a girl is good fun.

Yeah. Is that a bad thing?

Well, no, it probably isn't really a bad thing, but it's kind of

it still speaks to if I'm 32 and I'm not married or with children.

I'm not a girl. I'm still a woman like I don't cross into womanhood.

I mean, I know what you mean, but I think it's a state of mind, though.

Being a girl is a state of mind.

Yes. Out loudest.

Tell us what you think. Are you a girl? Are you a woman?

Are you sometimes both?

Let us know in the Facebook group. Send us a note.

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To get full access, follow the link in the show notes

and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

On Friday, Mia and I had a bit of argy-bargy about triggers.

We are not going back there, friends.

No more argy-bargy about triggers.

Today, we're talking about the opposite of triggers,

or at least they're being sold to us as the opposite of triggers.

I'm not sure if they are.

Glimmers.

So if triggers are something that make you feel unsafe and anxious,

glimmers are meant to be mini experiences in your life

that make you feel safe and warm.

So if you're not a girl, you're not going to be a girl.

Mini experiences in your life that make you feel safe and warm.

An example might be

walking in nature, patting your dog,

having a lovely cup of hot chocolate, right?

Now, those are all things that you might just do anyway,

but putting the word glimmer on them means these are things to instill

in your life that bolster you.

So say we're all out in the world and their slings and arrows are coming at us.

They do.

Things are tough and we might be being made to feel anxious by the new cycle

or by whatever's going on.

The things that fill us up and make us feel safer,

more resilient and more invincible are all the lovely little things.

The reminders that life is good.

I have a question about glimmers,

because you know, I need to have things well defined as concepts.

Is a glimmer something that just happens once or it's in the same way

that a trigger sparks a bad memory or puts you back to a place of distress?

Does a glimmer have to just not be one nice thing that makes you feel good,

but it has to have a bigger association?

A glimmer really is something that you might start putting into your daily routine.

So you can identify what they are for you.

So it's supposed to help you regulate.

On the subscriber episode last week about Ask Me Anything,

and we were talking about me moving to the country.

And I told you that I like to go and sit near the river near my house sometimes

where it's quiet and you were like, that sounds like hell.

I didn't think about it at the time, but that's a glimmer.

Because I can, my personality and my life and everything,

I can be susceptible to overwhelm and getting stressed and anxious and my head

falling off a bit, doing things like that, like learning as I get older,

the things I need to put in my life that calm me down, help me regulate.

So maybe it was you and Sally Hepworth were having a conversation once

on a podcast, not just out in the world, where you were talking about,

maybe Sally was talking about after she's been to a busy book event or whatever,

she needs to like re-regulate herself and she's got ADHD, as you do.

And she does that by going back to her hotel or whatever and having her phone on,

the TV on, all her stuff around her, lots of stimulation, but alone to recharge.

Now, that is a glimmer for her.

For me, that would cause me to be more anxious.

I see. Oh, this is wonderful.

Now I'm thinking of a million glimmers.

All right, let's go one at a time.

Because I think mine are probably pretty basic.

My glimmers are definitely walking my dog somewhere beautiful,

like I get very calm nature.

I like to be out in nature.

Are you listening to a podcast at the time?

I haven't been lately.

Listen to me, I always get anxious when there's not enough stimulation around you.

And this is very true, right?

So I can be, but I haven't been lately because I'm trying to train the dog.

And actually what I've learned in that, because I don't want to have my

headphones in so I can be like, come here, do this, be a bit more present.

It's actually being more calming.

There's another little learning for me.

So my glimmer, because a lot of people say, oh, nature's a good glimmer.

For me, it is. For you, it's probably not, right?

No, I don't like it.

You don't like it.

So your glimmer might be tea.

Yes.

I had the best time writing down some glimmers.

But before I tell you what some of mine are, I think we did a little bit of Vox

poppies around the office in case you're bored of holding in my voice.

We're going to be the two of us.

Here are what some other women around the mum mirror office said, are they glimmers?

There's nothing more calming than the feeling of slipping into bed after you've

just put fresh bedding on, clean sheets, something about it soothes my soul.

My glimmer is the first cup of tea that I have.

And I genuinely look forward to it every single morning.

Mine's kind of weird because I'm childless.

But babies, whenever I see babies in prams,

I'm like, oh, these are cute.

It just makes me feel so happy.

For me, it's when a song ends just as you enter your driveway, especially when

it's like a Taylor Swift song. Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

Going for a swim on like a really cold winter's day when the sand is super cold

and you're walking on it and then the ocean's like a bit warmer than like the

outside temperature. It's a nice feeling of like your feet defrosting in the ocean too.

OK, my glimmer, I know it's weird, is when you are driving on the road and you

see an ambulance coming from behind and everyone merges over and everyone lets

everyone in and everyone moves to the left to let the ambulance through.

When it's like faith restored in humanity, we can all collectively work together

to make sure someone gets the help that they need faster.

And I think it's really nice and it makes me cry every time.

And I know it's weird.

That's incredible.

I feel exactly the same way.

I can't believe she articulated that.

I never have consciously thought of it, but I feel the same way.

I find it very moving when everybody moves out of the way for an ambulance,

even though you were legally required to do so.

Because you let people just.

OK, so so many of my glimmers are around tea.

Yes. So tea overall, if I had to choose one glimmer, it's tea.

It's my recalibration.

It's my reset. It's my comfort.

It's my self care. It's all of those things.

But there's some specifics.

So the sound of tea, but when my husband puts the tea next to my bed in the morning,

that's like one of the first conscious sounds I hear.

If he's got up before me, that's incredible.

Then the first sip of that tea.

I often make a happy tea noise that's involuntary, that goes like this.

Oh, that's not a very calming noise.

No, but it's like it's in my soul, feeling my meds kick in in the morning.

My ADHD meds, that's a glimmer.

Looking into my dog's eyes,

watching them run in the park, there's something about getting to the park or the

beach and watching my dogs run like it's the running.

I don't know, there's something in my soul that it feels very satisfying.

Sitting around the table with my family when there's some banter.

Yeah, that's a glimmer for ideally not argument.

Yeah. And then showers are a glimmer.

That's a big reset for me.

And then also just rearranging my clothes.

I was thinking about your closet and your playing with my clothes, playing with my things.

Yes, that's definitely a glimmer reset for you.

Yeah, I love lying in bed with my son, making him laugh.

Like if I'm doing that, I am having the best little moment.

It's what I realized about glimmers is I think we talked about this when we were

talking about happiness at some point recently, is I think maybe as you get older,

what you realize about happiness is it's not like a consistent state.

It's recognizing the little moments and going, that was good.

I was happy.

I think that's what a glimmer is.

And it makes you and in a way, you then stash them, you know what I mean?

And they make you feel better because if you know that you've had a full on week at

work and everybody needs things from you, as I know that you always do.

And then you get to play in your closet and talk to your family and walk your dog.

They might seem like the most normal things.

Well, of course, that's what you do on the weekend.

But actually, they're like stacking back up into those moments.

Like filling your tank.

Because I like being on my own and I don't get to do it very often.

Because Brent's been away this last week, when the kids finally go to bed,

they never go to bed anymore.

So annoying. And the house is really quiet.

I don't just get that moment when I can go,

I can watch whatever I want.

I could have a glass of wine or a cup of tea or a girl.

A bitsy tea, a bitsy tea.

What are your glimmers out loud as I want you to tell us last week,

we asked you about your Canon events and I can't tell you how good the

conversations in out loud is really beautiful.

And thank you to the out louder who identified my Canon event.

Yes, they did.

She dropped into my DMs and said your Canon event was leaving Channel 9.

And I'm like, how do you know that?

It's true. It's true.

It's it's it's it's it's it's it's true.

We love it out loud as when you know us better than we know ourselves.

Mia's got a recommendation before we go.

It's a book.

I love being immersed in a book.

My friend, Amelia Lester, who is an out

louder just tells me what to read and I read it because I find the process of

choosing a book to be quite stressful and overwhelming.

It feels like I might get it wrong and then I'll have wasted time.

Speaking of glimmers, getting to sit down and read a book.

Yeah, it's got to be when you really are into it.

Like I find not the opposite of a glimmer, but I hate the beginning of a book when

you know you've just got to get involved.

I find that really difficult.

Anyway, a book that I loved and that I got involved in really quickly was The

Guest by Emma Klein.

I'm a basic bitch for recommending this because it is like the hot book that

everybody's reading.

It's the book of the summer in the US.

And it is the new novel by the author of The Global Phenomenon, The Girls.

Funnily enough, The Girls.

I didn't read that book, but apparently that book is amazing as well.

So what's it about?

Summer is coming to a close on Long Island, which is kind of like Imagine the Hamptons.

Taylor Swift just closed down that wedding.

Oh my God, it's all coming full circle.

And Alex is no longer welcome.

One Miss Stepeta dinner party and the older man she's been staying with dismisses

her with a ride to the train station and a ticket back to the city.

With few resources, but a gift for navigating the desires of others.

Alex stays on the island.

She drifts like a ghost through the gated

driveways and sunblasted dunes of a rarefied world, trailing destruction in her way.

Oh, it's really interesting.

So it's basically about this Grishta.

She is a young escort.

She's only 22 and you sort of learn more about her life as she has to try

and find a way to stay out in the Hamptons for like a week.

Just grifting onto these really rich.

What a good idea, because people are really into grifters and scammers at the moment.

It's so interesting.

Loved it, loved it.

I like that.

When you do basic bits recommendation, as in this is the book of the summer or whatever.

I always want to know, but is it good?

Because often everyone's talking about a book, but it doesn't mean it's good.

But if you're recommending it, it clearly is good.

And I can say I can add another one in because you've already recommended it.

The book she told me to read next was Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow,

which I think you and Claire and Jesse have already did.

All of the Malamere office have been reading that book.

It is like the most read book around this place.

I'm loving that too.

So that's what I recommend.

The Guest by Emma Klein and also Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, which I'm loving.

If you want something else to listen to.

Our and just like that recap from last week.

So there's only one episode left out loud as of and just like that.

And we probably will talk about it this week.

I would watch every second of it.

Isn't it weird if they said the final episode is going to be eight hours long?

I would watch every minute.

Isn't it funny? It's like people said, do you like it?

And I'm like, I don't like it, but I just have to watch it.

I shouldn't say I hate it.

I don't hate watch it. It's not that.

I don't know if I watch it with hope, hoping that it'll get better.

But it's almost finished.

And I don't think there's going to be another season.

No, nor do I.

My prediction is it's not.

So there's one left.

We recapped the penultimate episode last Friday.

So go and listen to that.

There's a link in the show notes.

Catch yourself up for the finale, which is on this week.

And thank you for listening to this very unusual episode of Mama Mia Out Loud.

Do not worry out loud as we're not going to make it a regular thing that there are

only two of us. We like the three of us, but some Monday we miss you, Claire.

And we really want you to get better, my friend.

But some Mondays just go very Monday-ish and you've just got to roll with it.

You've got to roll with it.

Also, no one wanted to come play with us.

They didn't. They're like, we're going to leave you to it.

Thank you for listening to Australia's number one news and pop culture show.

The episode was produced by Emily and Gazillas and Tali Blackman.

And the executive producer is Eliza Ratliff with audio production by Scott Stronik.

We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.

Shout out to any Mum Mia subscribers listening.

If you love the show and want to support us,

subscribing to Mum Mia is the best way to do so.

There's a link in the episode description.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.