Between Two Beers Podcast: Hamish Pinkham: Rhythm & Vines Co-Founder, Crazy Artist Stories, Almost Losing it All

On this episode of Between Two Beers we talk to Hamish Pinkham.

Hamish is a lawyer, entrepreneur and musician but is best known for being the co-founder

and director of Rhythm and Vines, New Zealand's premier live music festival.

In 2003 Hamish and his two roommates at the University of Otago decided to host a party

for their friends in a gizbin vineyard.

The story of what's happened since is quite remarkable.

In this episode we talk through the 21 year journey of R&V's highs and lows from fears

of losing it all to having 30,000 revelers at its peak.

We hear the best behind the scenes stories from experiences with public enemy and chance

the rapper, the wildest rioters, his hustlers mentality, the time he tried stand up comedy

and all the business lessons he learned along the way.

What Hamish has built and achieved over the last two decades is seriously impressive but

after talking to him it's easy to see how.

He's smart, fun, driven and extremely personable.

This was a really fun ep.

Listen on iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts from or watch the video on YouTube

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This episode was brought to you from the export Bear Garden studio.

Enjoy it.

Hey, Hamish Pinkham, welcome to Between Two Bears.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks for having me.

I'm a big fan after all, so yeah, I've listened to a lot of the content and yeah, that's an

honor to be here.

Thank you.

Oh, cheers.

We're very excited.

Have you in the export Bear Garden studio and my favorite type of guest is one who brings

some notes with him.

We've got a little notebook there on the table.

What's in the notebook?

Preparations key.

No, I was just having a think back through our career really, thinking of some stories

and insights and yeah, brought back a few memories actually preparing for this chat, so no, looking

forward to it.

Oh man, that's awesome.

I haven't seen any notes like that since Detective Inspector Scott Beard came in with

a list of handwritten bits and pieces and this is good.

Or for the real ones, Joey Edwards.

Yeah, back, back, back in the day.

So eight or whatever he was.

We're really excited for that.

We've talked to a lot of people in the build up to this pod about you and about R&V and

it seems like Shay and I are the only two people in New Zealand who haven't been.

Yeah, we missed that ride of passage it seems.

Is it too late for us?

Just disappointing.

Oh, it's never too late.

Never too late for the time of your life we say.

Oh, there it is.

There's the sales pitch.

Reckon you'll be able to get time away from the home office, Steve.

Is there a little section for sort of dorky dads and teetotalists to hang out in?

Well, we do that air rhythm now so you can come down for a night and get back to your

bed by 2am.

Oh, that's the one?

So yeah, certainly for the older crowd that can't do three days, a little one night one

is always welcome.

That's the one.

Steve, we're in.

We're all in.

And it's on the house too by the sound of it.

So brilliant.

Yeah.

What is the age?

Do you actually get a lot of older punters?

Yeah, we do.

We, you know, it's predominantly young.

So kind of 50% of the market are that 18 to 20 year old, you know, school leavers, you

know, young professionals, people, you know, who have got that time during the year, during

that time of year to have these kind of escapes.

So as we said earlier, you need a bit of a runway for rhythm and vines.

You need to clear the decks and, you know, almost have that week over the new year period

to really throw yourself at it.

But as the, you know, history unfolds, a lot of people come back, you know, we're finding

people coming back later in life, you know, they might have had a couple of kids, but

they still want to come down and experience the rhythm magic.

You know, everyone that's been there loves it.

They walk away with a smile.

And if we can encourage them back, then they're more than welcome.

So do you have to have shredded to come down?

It's not a requirement.

I think a lot of people try, you know, myself included every year to get fit for rhythm.

But no, it's a very inclusive environment.

It's not pretentious at all.

It's not about how you look.

It's more an attitude, you know, come down, let your hair down, enjoy yourself, meet some

new people and enjoy everything that rhythm and gizman has to offer.

Awesome.

So talking about everyone I talked to, like everyone's got the R&V, like war stories

or stories, it must be really cool to have created something that universally everyone

knows about and talks about and has got a really good memory of.

Yeah, it is, you know, it's real honor to be still working on this festival and it

means a lot to so many people, not just the punters, but all the staff involved and everyone

over the years, it's put a lot of time into building this, you know, this fantastic festival.

So yeah, it's a great thing to be part of.

I think we wouldn't still be running it if we didn't enjoy it.

We weren't proud of it.

So, you know, I was early here today, still giving it, you know, giving my skill set to

the festival because, you know, it's a great Kiwi institution and, you know, long may it

continue.

It's 100% that.

I was about to say it is an institution and doing the research for it, again, while not

having been there, the amount of people that you connect with through, like our football

club, for example, the young guys that are coming through that are 18 to 24, they've

just froth it.

They froth the experience, they're talking about it, six months out, they are starting

to shred.

Where did that shredding, shredding for R&B come from?

I think it maybe came out of the Australian festival scene, there was that stereo sonic

which was all about kind of getting jacked and, you know, the Australian guys getting

their shirts off and, you know, we probably haven't done it to that extent, but it's a

great time of year to get fit towards the end of the year and get your new clothes ready

and, you know, come to a place like Gisborne and, yeah, let your hair down, meet some

new people and getting your shredons all part of it.

Nice.

Gotta have goals.

Like I said, we have had a lot of fun researching you for this ep and your wife, Roma, has come

to the party big time.

Oh, she's delivered.

Lot of good voice notes, but I wanted to start by asking, do you think you would have met

Roma if you'd got that role as the bachelor?

Probably not, although I probably would have been chewed up and spat out of that program.

Was it genuine?

Was it a genuine approach for you to be the bachelor?

Oh, look, I think there was a pretty shallow pool of bachelors around town that they had

to do.

Sorry, Art.

Well, they got the right one, didn't they?

Yeah, they did.

It's a happy, happy story for them.

So, I think a few people got shoulder tapped and, yeah, wasn't my calling, so, but look,

had enjoyed the show and it's good to follow Art and then Jordan was actually someone who

was encouraging me to sign up for it and he ended up going for it and I didn't end

too well for him.

Yeah.

No, no, Roma's, yeah, she's certainly enthusiastic, so hopefully she hasn't spilled too many

votes.

No, they're all very, I think they're all very interesting.

Yeah, they are.

Insights into Hamish Pinkham the man.

It's going to be an upbeat episode.

So, yeah, we've learned a lot about you, bookworm, musician, barbecue enthusiast with Pinky's

kitchen, golfer, but we want to start by hearing about Hamish Pinkham comedian.

We understand that you did a stand-up comedy set at R&B one year.

Yeah, well, we were trying to rescope the festival.

It had become a little bit of a drinking school, he's kind of camping escape and around 2015

we tried to bring some new aspects to the festival, you know, we bought some really

nice food offerings, we tried different music offerings and one of the new things, initiatives

was Giggle and Vines and we worked with some local comedians to bring a taste of comedy

to the festival.

So, in the afternoon you could crack a beer, head to the Giggle and Vines area and watch

some leading comedians.

We had Chopper Reed, we had some Corey Gonzales, some of the top comedians and there was a

deer put around our team to put my hand up and have a crack.

So I guess that's, you know, I'm an enthusiast and willing to give anything a go.

So I think there was a little charity fundraising raffle going around to raise some money to

get me up on stage and I think I had to do about six or eight minutes.

It's a long set, did you prepare, are you a naturally funny person and two, did you prepare

a set ready to go?

Well, it was more about keeping the stories going, I found, the more you just kept talking,

the more people didn't have a chance to walk away and intervene, but I did have a practice

run at a bar in Auckland and then I made.

It was a pretty laid back affair, but you know, we did have a good crowd and told some

stories and anecdotes about the festival and some of the characters that I've met and

next thing you know, time was up, so no, it was a fantastic reason to raise some money

for charity and give it a go, but yeah, haven't been back to the stage since.

That is a good comedy hack, you just tell a story.

And no one has a chance to.

They might not enjoy it, but yeah, who knows, you're eating up the minutes.

You've thrown something in there which is characters and Roma suggested that you have

an amazing impersonation range in your repertoire, but also the ability to throw accents on when

retelling stories as well.

Was any of that in that set and does that rain true?

Little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I've got a good friend to ever say, he's from Durban and he taught me the

ways of the bokeh and he's a good oak, he's machana and go to the spring box, that's good.

We love the South African accent.

That's really any more in there that you could pull out if you need to?

I don't know, I think that was part of the routine was maybe a few impersonations of some

rappers that we'd had and some scenarios over the festival.

Yeah, we'll get into those.

A few problems.

A few ones that were okay back then and now, maybe not so much.

Awesome.

That is awesome.

If you do feel the need to throw some accents or some impersonations in to add color to

this episode, please feel free.

Thank you.

The other thing Roma said is that you have an amazing impeccable memory, names and faces

you do not forget.

And she suggested we test you, which we're going to do.

So she said name any lineup from any year and they'll be able to tell you who's on it.

So who played at R&V in 2012?

2012.

That was our 10-year anniversary.

The hazy one.

Put me on the spot now, but yeah, it was the kind of knife party, Flume, Nets guy,

Mark Ronson, Kimber, it was actually a year we didn't have a headliner as such, but we

collected about six acts together to make a really memorable lineup.

There was Tayman Parler on it, there was Flume played in the cellar stage, and yeah, it was

a real diverse lineup and something for everyone.

He's done well.

He's done really well.

He's done very well there.

Nets guy was the other one, I guess.

He's there every year.

Is that legit?

You could name every year and every artist that's played?

Yeah, I've got a pretty good memory of, well, I've lived it, haven't I?

And you spend all year, especially on the music front, it's kind of what I drive is driving

that direction and those decisions, so they kind of live with you.

So each year is different and there's errors that blur a little bit, but I guess I'm really

passionate about the product and I give a shit, so yeah, I don't know, it's something

that sticks with you.

That must help as well, I guess when you go into negotiations that you can recall facts

and years and figures and I remember when you played in this time and yeah, you represent

so and so and they did here and they did there, that must be a really strong business asset

to have as well.

Yeah, I think so and it's, again, just showing an interest in people and places and I think

back to even university days and it's one of the reasons we were able to get off the

ground as we were able to encourage so many friends to come to Gisborne for those initial

years, but I remember even at Otaga University just showing an interest in everyone around

campus and I remember at our college, Uni Coal, there must have been about 400 different

people and photos up on the wall and I probably remember about 95 of the people at our college,

what they studied, who they were, where they're from, who are their friends with and when

it came to kind of gathering different people around campus from your kind of rugby heads

to your pretty girls, to your Hawks Bay farmers, it was easy to kind of bring all those people

together about behind this common goal of new years in Gisborne.

Were you the big man on campus?

Were you that guy at Otaga Uni?

Everybody knew who Hamish was?

I wouldn't say that, I mean I think I was pretty enthusiastic, I used to be a bit of

an organiser, we had a university band, we'd play at the Captain Cook on Wednesday night

and we used to encourage people to come down there and I was putting my hand up to organise

the grad party and playing at the University College at the Rugby Club and so yeah, enthusiastic,

yes, no pretentiousness and just wanting to get along with everyone and I guess taking

people for who they are.

The last one I want to talk about before we sort of start painting the picture is, I think

this gives real insight into who you are and perhaps why you've been so successful, is

during lockdown and Roma told us that you can't sit still, you've always got to have

a project on, so one there was Pinky's Kitchen, which go and have a look on Instagram, there's

Pinky's Kitchen on Instagram page, apparently unbelievable meats and smoked all sorts, five

different barbecues and you know, gone the extra mile, but the other one was that because

you studied to be a lawyer, you got a law degree and at a stage of lockdown where you

weren't sure if you were going to be able to, if the whole event management thing was

going to be coming back, you got the law books out and you started studying again and

you started working through and genuinely thought, oh shit, am I actually going to go

back to being a lawyer?

Tell us about that part of your life and the thought of just flipping it all on its head

and getting back into law.

Yeah, well I studied law, left high school interested in debating and reading and writing

and a natural progression was to study law and applied for university in Otago and did

my studies and it wasn't necessarily passionate about it, but towards the end of my degree

I came up with the idea for Rhythm and Fines and I was spending more time and lectures

thinking about that, enjoyed some aspects of the study around competition law and contract

law and not so much the kind of criminal and the property side of things, but I was starting

to think how I could use my training to maybe become an entrepreneur or build a business

and some really good skills from that training, negotiation and contract and dealing with

people and I think having the confidence to follow your ideas was something that I really

took from the course was have a crack, lean on people to help build your idea, don't be

scared to ask, but have the confidence to go on to negotiation.

So yeah, found myself with a new start-up festival, it was almost just a summer project

at that stage, but having the legal background was encouraged to maybe get a real job and

I thought at the time it's better to maybe solve your own problems than solving other

people's problems, it was kind of my thought, I can spend a career giving advice and consulting

and being a lawyer or I could have a crack at my own passions and fix my own problems

as I go, so yeah that's really what drove me into helping, you know, encouraged to build

the Rhythm and Vines business into something more than just a summer project and then yeah,

here we were kind of 18 or so years later, hitting lockdown and gave me a breath, gave

I think everyone a breath to stop and think about where they're at with their career and

given the events industry was on hold and who knew what was going to be happening with

mass gatherings, maybe it was a chance to go back to my studies and think about becoming

more of a consultant in the legal areas, maybe in the music space or entertainment and passing

on some of my knowledge and contacts to that next generation coming through, so I guess

you've got to always be prepared for the next step.

Did that flicker of a flame sort of die out as soon as events were back on the table?

Was it as quick as, ah, fuck that, I'm back into events again?

I've always, yeah, I've always got that there, I think, I think as you get a bit older and

a bit wiser, maybe it's chance to give back and become more of a consultant and I guess

that's what a lot of lawyers and I aren't there, they're giving advice, you know, it's

not necessarily their risk or their idea but they're just in the background to support

people on their projects, so you know, I've been really fortunate that this project's

been a big success and I've taken, you know, some necessary risks and put energy into this

project but there will become a point where I may be time to step back and become more

of an advisor, whether that's as a lawyer or not but as a potentially, you know, a mentor

or director for the next generation of creatives coming through.

We'll be right back after this short break.

I'm going to start painting the picture now.

We did an episode where people send in things that annoy them and one of them is when I say

I'm going to paint a picture.

Just familiar language that we use almost in every episode which we've fallen to straight

away.

I want to pick up the story from life at Otago Uni.

So you're in your third year of studying law, a budding musician living in a flat with

two of your best mates, one of whom has an incredible family estate in Gisborne which

you think could be an epic concert venue.

So your mate's dad Dean flies you all out to check it out, well tries to fly you all

out to check it out.

So pick up the story from here.

Yeah, so we had this idea to get all our mates together.

We thought it would be the end of our lives leaving Otago.

Oh, we'd never see these people again.

We'd better have this big one.

As we walk on.

Exactly.

Travellers we haven't been able to get rid of each other.

It's a small country so we thought let's get this party going to have our big final

farewell and everyone can head off to the real world and do their own thing.

So Tom and I put it on ourselves to think about a location.

We thought about places like Wanaka, Nelson, I'm from Hawkes Bay, and then Andrew, my

flatmate at the time, on his wall he had a photo of the amphitheater that his dad had

created in Gisborne and Andrew's a pretty enthusiastic entrepreneur himself and he said

right to Dean, Dean will get right behind it.

Dean being his dad.

Dean being his father.

So we tried to sell him on the premise that we'd all buy his wine and help promote the

venue but Dean saw the vision as well and next thing you know, yeah we're on a plane

to Gisborne in the middle of winter so this is six months out from New Year's with this

opportunity to pitch to Dean about our idea.

We still didn't have a name.

We didn't know first steps with getting funding or how we would go about it but on that flight

to Gisborne we came up with the name Rhythm and Vines through working through some concepts

of music and the location and...

Amazing what a hangover can do for the creative juices.

Because did you miss the original flight that was booked?

We did and Andrew was very generous.

He'd bought those flights for us to Gisborne.

It was after one of those infamous nights at the Captain Cook Hotel so I remember going

round to Tom's shaking him out of bed.

We made our way to the airport in Dunedin which was miles out of town and so the first

step in our journey was a hurdle by our own doing and Andrew and Dean were generous enough

to get us back on the next flight.

Was Andrew already up there?

Andrew was already up there.

Oh shit.

Andrew pushed over the name of it.

I mean it's such a famous name now.

There's one of you secretly know actually I came in.

You're saying it was kind of like a group thing but it was one of you like well it was actually

me.

It was process of elimination.

I like to think I added the musical element.

We went through names like Bass, Melody, Treble, Rhythm so we had a list of those names

on the side and then we were talking about obviously the vineyard setting which seems

quite token today about all these vineyard parties but back in the day there was just

the Mission concert which I grew up with in Napier which was really contemporary and

it was for your parents and it was Beach Boys and Doobie Brothers and it was really quite

dated and I remember going to those concerts saying man it'd be cool if we had our own

heroes like Sublime or Pearl Jam or why do we have to listen to this Fadirari music.

So Rhythm and Vines was like let's do something trendy that's young and cool for us.

The Vines element obviously sounds obvious now but that was coupled with this rhythm

and Rhythm and Vines was born and at the time there was this burgeoning music scene across

the country or mainly out of Wellington with the dub music and the horns and there was

this band called the WBC who ended up playing the first festival and they had a great clip

on TV with them and the vineyard playing with the horns and we're like that's exactly

what we're trying to achieve so they were booked.

The black seeds were booked and it was a time when there was the Exponents and Dave Dobbin

and a little bit of Pop Punk, you know Zed and it was a pretty cheesy kind of scene but

these bands coming out of Wellington and in the coming years the Fat Frees drops and

the chorus and rhombus yeah, Concord, Dornman, Wee, there was a great movement of independent

music, no one really promoting it so we were able to bundle up that whole scene over those

first few years of Rhythm and Vines.

Just pause there, how old are you?

I was 21.

That's so cool, that's so cool to think like what were you doing at 21?

From America.

Yeah, I was just syncing to the album.

Yeah exactly right, not putting together a festival and a massive party like that, amazing.

Yeah thank you, we had that experience doing the Captain Cook nights so bit of a taste of

promoting so it was yeah putting posters up around town and booking bands and negotiating

with the venue and getting writers and I was loving that side of the industry and so when

it came to organising this party we didn't know much about the bigger event management

and getting consents but we knew about getting people excited and we knew what our vision

was and it was that blind optimism and young naivety that led us to you know encouraging

people like Dean Whitters and my father Ross to help mentor us and help steer us in the

right direction to kind of getting our dream off the ground.

Being personable, communicating and engaging with the community like it would be such a

different set of skills to start this thing now in the age of social media.

Like this is pre-social media so you're actually having to go and like you say talk to people.

I'm just thinking about that as you're saying it, it's such a different skill set right?

There were some pretty crude marketing ideas we had when you think back now because yeah

you're right, it was the days before social media so we had these long winded, well they

weren't long winded, they were quite specific emails, getting people excited about rhythm

and vines that were sent around the country and it might have been before your time but

it was you know when there's just like a dress after a dress after a dress.

Oh yeah, they're mostly porno ones.

They're mostly porno ones.

Isn't that when it tinks in?

I just remember opening it up in the labs at Waikato Uni and being like oh shit!

It would take a while to load as well, it would sort of slowly come through.

Like chocolate milkshake or something?

Anyway, just different emails.

So they were all bouncing around New Zealand and then we did, we wrote a list of people

in different parts of the country you know at Massey University or at Auckland and we'd

send them a bunch of flyers to hand out around their campuses and probably the most effective

marketing was we got 30 odd people from different social groups around campus.

We got them to Guardies one night.

We shouted a couple of great crates.

This is when crates were, I think they were 40 bucks for a crate of spades.

And Tom and I got up on the table and we told everyone about our vision.

Get your schoolmates, get your friends around uni.

Let's all go to Gisborne for this big hurrah and we showed them the photos and we were enthusiastic

and we had a vision and I guess we were going to convey it as well.

Is that pissed up you doing that?

Yeah, like 21 year old, you know, full of like dead poet society.

I'm booking the tickets now!

And then having to wait the next day to go down to the travel agent when it opened

because there wasn't any internet shit then.

Or was that just you? Was that your personality?

Oh yeah we weren't, I mean we weren't hammered but it was a social time, wasn't it, 21?

And I mean there was a lot of people saying this is a pipe dream, this is a myth.

But you've got to remember these days there wasn't that much to do for new years

and that was one of the reasons we put our hands up to start this thing

because people used to go to Sydney, there was the odd little scene in Taupo,

you know there was those riots in Fongamata.

But there was no central place for young Kiwis to go.

So when we put our hands up and said, here's the vineyard, here's the bands, buy your tickets.

People just jumped at it.

And how's the feeling the night before that first gig?

Are you full of nerves? Are you getting much sleep?

Oh I was, yeah, well that's another part of the story.

We had this hellish rain probably on the 29th of December

and all our friends and all the people had arrived in Gisborne

and it was honestly like a cyclone, people were bunkered down at different farmhouses

and campgrounds and word was getting around like it was this thing going to even go ahead.

And I remember Dean Whitters wanted to pull it.

He was saying let's cancel and Andrew and Tom and I were just so almost scared

with the social fallout of not being able to deliver this festival.

We kind of bullied Dean and said we're not cancelling.

Let's hold on and sure enough the next day the sun came out.

We got the Lions Club in there with the woodchips filled all the holes of the mud.

It was just all hands on deck the night before to actually get the venue ready

and then sure enough the day of the 31st, blue sky magic.

And you think back to those days where if life had taken a different turn

and that rain had come in and we had cancelled,

we wouldn't have the history and the magic that we have today

but we had a good run of fine weather.

People got to experience everything about Gisborne and Rhythm and Fines was able to flourish.

Was it as simple as the day after that success with the nice weather

and it all went well?

You're sitting back and you're thinking that was pretty cool.

We got to do that again.

Yeah it was and it probably wasn't as successful as we had thought.

We had a cash bar, we had backpackers working, money went missing.

You know different expenses came in at the last minute

and when we cashed up after that first event we were actually 20 grand in the whole.

So that was a real kick in the guts for what Tom and I had thought was a really successful project

but it gave us that encouragement to have another crack.

Who eats that 20k between uni students or the Dean?

Well that was why we were great to have Dean funding us

but our name was associated with the debt so we were I guess had to go through with it.

But then we took the next leap so the next year we booked Salmonella dub

and they were a pretty popular band certainly in the South Island

but that was a sizable fee to commit them and you know the risk just kept,

we were kind of already in deep then but the recipe and the concept was so good

that we knew that everyone would come back the next year with a couple of friends in tow

and sure enough year two we had 5,000 people so it just showed that we were onto something special.

Did you go back to uni after year one?

Yeah that year one finishes 1st of January 2004 you wake up, everyone's feeling good,

you go to the bakery, grab some pies, share some war stories,

think about moving back to the flat in March I imagine to start up a week again

and then are you just studying but also thinking how can we make this thing bigger and better,

how do we build on the snowball, how do we make it?

Exactly and I think that's when the law degree started to kind of get put aside

because you know I was leaving lectures to go and ring Red Bull

or have coffees with shape shifter if they're in town

or you know and it's anyone that's had a wild idea and you get a bit of momentum

it's quite intoxicating but we also had the runs on the board

we could prove that we could pull off these events, everyone had a ball

and we had collateral to show people whether it be sponsors

and the next year we started to get Red Bull on board

and export with some of the first partners as well

and people started to believe in our vision and things like that, just snowball.

Do you deliberately use cricket analogy in the way you talk a lot of the time?

I do.

You do, right?

Yeah, runs on the board.

Runs on the board, stay in your crease and just take each ball as it comes.

Yeah, exactly.

Wanky Islands opening the batting for New Zealand Summer was one of your Instagram posts.

You definitely do.

I fucking knew it, I knew that.

In this little group of you, you're becoming businessmen, right?

You're 21, you're learning all of these skills at once.

Did you each have different strengths or did you divide up the different parts of running the operation?

Well Tom and I, driving it, we probably had complementary skills.

I was probably more music focused, dealing with bands, booking them, booking the production,

getting the riders organised, thinking about the flow of the music.

Tom is a really good people's person, he's very creative

and he was more a marketer I guess as well

and he was another enthusiastic salesman to encourage all our friends to join us.

Andrew's very astute, he's very practical.

He could work the land, he could work his dad and be that Gisborne liaison.

So between the three of us, we did have quite a unique skill set.

But as we grew, we learned we needed those event managers to help us

and we had a local lady come on board in the coming first few years to help with that detail

and those critical paths and bringing the actual pipeline of delivery together.

Even to this day, we've got a really wide team of different skill sets that all add to the recipe

so it's certainly not just one person that pulls it together.

FireFest is an amazing documentary to watch back as an event person.

Did you watch that back and think back to the first few years of R&V and go,

man that was, I don't have to suck dick for water, but I was close to those kind of situations?

Well they had a great idea, it's still a fantastic idea,

that vision they were selling was shit, I'd buy a ticket.

But the implementation, you know and they had a bit of bad luck as well,

like we had good luck, we had good weather, we had good momentum,

we were able to get off the ground that first year and the next year we had good luck

and so I think we had a different journey from them but I think they were too careless,

they took too big a risk.

A lot of ego involved as well, they weren't realistic and as a result their concept didn't perform.

But do you look back now at some of those and think, man we were pretty cowboy

when we were starting out in terms of what we were doing or was it always a pretty tight operation

because of the support that you brought in from outside?

Oh no, we, yeah, lots of holes and lots of learnings, we ran out of water one year.

Someone had to get suckered.

We had glass bottles instead of cans and there was people getting cut.

We've had power cuts, nothing in events is ever certain is it?

So it's just mitigating those risks and having good people around you to help deliver these big projects

and it's still, in every big project today, look at FIFA, look at other big events in this country,

there's a lot of good minds working on these things to ensure that nothing slips through the gap.

Can you connect this timeline up for me?

When you had the first gig to when you went full time, that was your full time job.

And in the middle there, were you a lawyer in Levin?

In the notes, he was a lawyer in Levin for a little bit.

Where did that come into play?

So my mother's family's from Levin and my uncle is an accountant there

and he got me some work experience and I think my parents were,

they could see my passion for this project and they were certainly very supportive

and they thought make sure you get a bit of backing for your career

so I did some work experience in my university holidays at a firm in Levin

and they actually, after my profs, I did my bar exam in Wellington, they actually gave me a job

and I'd considered it, didn't really want to live in Levin

but I did like the idea of getting some legal experience but travel was calling

so I booked a ticket to the US and to Europe and that's when, a bit of a gap year,

I got to see some leading festivals in the UK, Ziggit, V-Festival

and these projects or these festivals and lifestyles were just huge news

and we had nothing like that in New Zealand and that gave me the confidence to say

maybe Rhythm of Vines could become that for New Zealand,

it could be our festival that everyone talks about and everyone gets excited about

and breaks all these bands and we had the Bones, we had the Vision, we had the Brand,

we had a little bit of a following.

So I came back from that gap year OE with a whole new swing of my step to say

put the legal career aside, let's go hundies on this idea and it's not going to be easy

but every day if you can do a little bit more hustle or have that extra coffee

or get that one more bit of advice that could help build the project

then it's a lot more productive than being a lawyer on the clock.

And I guess we're talking 22, 23, 24, you've got no real responsibility,

you don't need a lot of money so it's kind of like you can live off the smell of an early rag

and just invest whatever you do have into the business, right?

Yeah and it was a confusing time, other friends were getting more structured lifestyles

with legal careers, working for banks and I think my parents and peer group were a little bit confused

about what I was trying to do but I think you do need a couple of years out of the loop

to get these ideas off the ground and it would be going to Sydney and meeting the touring agents

over there and working out how we can be part of their touring schedule

or it would be being down in Gizman on site, working out how are we going to set up the camping

or meeting with council or having a coffee in Ponsonby with ShapeShifter

so every day you've got to work on your passion and be 100% committed

otherwise it's not going to happen.

So when did you stake a claim in the ground that I am full-time in this?

Was it three years, two years, three years, four years?

Well I've always been full-time commitment at it but it was probably moved to Auckland

probably into the fourth year.

So we had a couple of years at university and then a gap year

and then I was like I really got to commit to this so moved to Auckland

and started building a team to help turn this into a full-time business.

The story, we watched the brilliant Herald documentary on rhythm and vines in the last few days

it's really well done, I'd recommend going and watching it

and it tells the story really well and there's a few highs and lows

and I think it's around 2006, sort of beginning of this journey

when Dean Whitters who we talked about went into receivership

and a lot of people lost a lot of money and there was a lot of stress involved there

it certainly came across in the documentary, there was a lot said, there was a lot unsaid

but it was really intriguing, reflecting back on that now

what was that situation and how do you reflect on it?

It was a really tough time for myself and the family, Tom had left

he'd headed overseas and left the business so it was myself and the Whitters family

and so I was this kind of cog in the machine I guess

with what was happening with their family business and Dean had overstretched himself

with a number of businesses and it was coming home to roost

as it turns out rhythm and vise was probably the one business in his empire that was actually succeeding

we had high turnover of tickets, we were starting to make some money

but his other ventures weren't so when the receivers came in they came for our business

they came for the venue, it was in a family trust

luckily that was spared from the receivers and we were able to keep that as a working vineyard

and a potential event centre that it's become

and Andrew and I picked up the pieces of the festival

and were able to trade through that time which was a really tough time

because Dean had his commitments with the local contractors to help build the venue

but they weren't associated with our business directly

although we were finding it hard to operate in that scenario

it was Dean's issue, he had to go through that process

and as a result went into receivership

Andrew and I, we were down there working with the creditors

working with the receivers to make sure that our part of the pie was able to trade through that

and it was a really risky time and we kind of came out in the coming years with Andrew

and Scott, his brother and myself driving the business forward

was the popularity of R&V growing at the same time that the behind the scenes turmoil was happening?

Yeah, no one would have known

apart from the local contractors who, you know, it's been tough for them, a lot of these guys

someone built a 2K fence around the venue and it only got paid 20 cents in the dollar

so you can imagine some of those contractors, local electricians, local plumbers

that were involved with the festival that weren't able to be paid by the venue

but we were quite clear at the time that we were a promotions business

we were just leasing the venue for our festival

so it was Dean's business issues that he had to deal with

and we just had to stand aside to make sure that we could continue the festival

but you were right, we were hitting our straps, this is when the dub scene was at its peak

we were able to group together some of those leading bands, the household names now

but at the time acts like Cora and Shapeshifter and Cornerstone Roots

to bring all those bands together in one location was groundbreaking at the time

and I remember signing Fat Freddy's Drop who had just announced and released their debut album

by the end of the year they were the darlings of the music industry

and we had them booked for New Year's Eve and that was a real moment for the festival

we were able to sell 10,000 tickets, we had the hottest band in the country

and I remember that year was really, really special

the All Blacks were there, they'd just beat in the Lions

Dan Carter was the toast to the country, was hanging off the stage during Fat Freddy's Drop set

we had Holly Smith there, it was the outrageous fortune actors were all there

it was a real moment for New Zealand and Rhythm and Vines was part of that

and we were able to build from there

You seem like a really humble, normal guy

when this thing is building and I think 2008 it became 3-day, in 2010 you sold out for the first time

you've got all these celebs and you're in a real position of power

did it go to your head, like looking back, did you keep under control during those times?

I think so, I think I've been reasonably grounded, I've got a great support network

my family's always kept me pretty grounded and good group of friends and the team

I guess probably where we've overstretched ourselves is trying to get too big too fast

but everything was calculated, we went to a 3-day model because we needed to get access to international talent

we needed to pivot and become more than just a local Kiwi festival

we'd had shape shifter, there was only one way to go and that was international talent

to get that international talent we needed to move to the 29th

and the other reason was everyone was in Gisborne for the week

they were almost twiddling their thumbs waiting around for New Year's Eve

so we thought let's open the gates early and bring everyone out on site on the 29th

we'll get some international talent and we were able to secure acts like Franz Ferdinand and the Cooks

and Public Enemy and everyone was like what the hell, Rhythm of Vines isn't it this Kiwi dub thing for one day?

how are we going to survive 3 days of this?

and apparently they've got Public Enemy coming and Carl Cox

and the first year it took a while for everyone to get their head around what we were trying to achieve

there was a bit of chatter in the industry, all these guys are too big for their boots

and what are they trying to achieve but we did have our Rhyman resin and our vision

so that first year of the 3-day model we only sold 16,000 tickets

and then the next year we only sold 18,000 and then finally on the third year we sold out 25,000

people understood our vision, we were able to bring in acts like Tiny Temper and NERD

and Carl Cox came back and we were on the map

and everyone was like oh I get this 3-day concert now, I know what you're trying to achieve

because time stamp it for me, big day out was that when it was tapering off around that same time that you were on the come up?

yeah well there was, at one year I think we had a bigger line up than the big day out

but it was essentially that was the same time of year

well like you guys obviously were new years but big day out was January, February right, so it was kind of in that same space

yeah and we weren't trying to compete with the big day out, we were quite, you know we were that road trip to Gisborne

we were that camping model, it's quite distinctly different and I'm a huge fan of the big day out

and I used to go every year but you know that was the one thing to do in New Zealand wasn't it

to get the access to the international talent and to see if we're slimming the boiler room or to see Jack White

or Kings of Leon, the rest of the year waiting around just can go into Concord Dawn or Tiki Tane

and look it was fantastic, the Kiwi music was at its peak but there was no opportunity to see it

offshore acts in the country so Rhythm and Vines took that lead and we were able to bring some fantastic talent

those first few years, a lot of the Kiwi bands, a lot of the Australian acts as well

Cut Copy and Miami Horror and the Presets and bringing those acts to New Zealand in a festival setting

was groundbreaking at the time and we achieved something that no one else had

we'll be right back after this short break

When you've grown this baby and 2010 the first time you sell out and your biggest headliner is playing

do you have like a ritual with the other founders or like is there a moment where you go and you just like

be present in the moment of what you've created?

Yeah probably at the end of the festival we've had a few classic kind of kick on sessions on the Vine stage

you know our friends of DJ'd and all the staff get together and pat each other on the back

obviously Midnight on the 31st is a real special occasion and especially now we do the countdown video

which is a reflective look on the year that's been

Who's idea was that?

One of the young guys who works for us, Josh Smith, he helped promote that

but we'd seen it being done in New York I think the Skrillex and Diplo did something at Madison Square Gardens

So that was all part of our rebirth and like let's make New Year's more of an occasion

and so the band's finished at 15 minutes to Midnight and the scene's set and you grab a drink and grab your friends

and look for a pash, yeah and it's become a really iconic part of the festival

I mean it's the first place in the world to bring in the Midnight and if we can do justice through that ceremony

you know that's all part of it

I don't know if you remember Steve we got videos from our friend Joel who was down at Rhythm and Vines this year

about how amazing that kind of particular part of it is

I imagine the cell phone signals get jammed out of Gisborne at that time of year or at that particular moment

and that's what you want right? You want everything to shit itself because it's such a good time

It is and well people got their cell phones in their pocket because they're following this journey of the year that's been

and the RadLab guys and Ben Loder does a fantastic job editing it and it's a real reflection of the year

the highs and lows, some of the passings of the memorable moments, the World Cups

and then it ramps up to the countdown and I mean that's the reason everyone's there after all to celebrate that moment

so let's do it well, let's not have it as a passing comment and then the fireworks go off

and it's a great time to celebrate with your friends and then the festival kicks on for a few more hours

till the sun rises and yeah as I said that's probably a time when you can reflect and get together

some of the people that have helped build the event and pat ourselves on the back and say we did it for another year

because are you in a constant state of stress or anxiety as it's happening?

Like what is your job when the rhythm and vise is actually going on?

No I'm raising my hands off at that time of year, my role is now driving the music bookings and direction

and a lot of that is happening at this time of year, it's the negotiation with the agents, it's the contracting,

it's the securing of the talent and driving the creative direction of where we're going

so by new years there's not that much work to be done in that regard

so yeah I'm kind of off tools in terms of event management but you know there's still hosting to be done,

there's still getting around talking to everyone, there's certainly seeing all the music acts you can

and you know making a plan for the future years or working out who's got a good crowd

there's enjoying yourself as well, why would you spend all year working on these projects

if you're going to be locked in a porter cabin, grumpy, tired and stressed?

So I make a real point of soaking it up, enjoying it, having fun, learning as much as I can about the product,

getting around, talking to people so then we can build it the following year.

You're right, you haven't worked out for the last six months to not have a chance to take a shirt off, right?

I love that answer, that's so good, I worried that you would just be so worried about things going wrong

but I guess over time with experience you learn to take care.

And we've got a great team and they're far more experienced and professional in event management

than I would ever be so we've got a great ops team, we've got a great first aid team that deals with authorities

and security and the bar staff and everyone's working really hard in their respective areas,

it's just my part is the work's been done.

So to contrast that, like I said there's been ups and downs and there's been some really rocky moments.

Do you remember exactly where you were in 2014 when you heard that there was an incident

and that there were some problems?

Yeah so we were on site for the final night of the festival and word started murmuring

through some of the senior management about issues down at B-Dub campgrounds

which is a separately run business, it was an accommodation provider for the Rhythm and Vines punters

that we used to entertain at Wirehacker Estate and each night they'd leave our event

and go back to the campground.

We worked in tandem with the festival because they were all the same punters

but it was run quite separately and a culture had developed down at the beach

that was slightly unbecoming for the level we wanted to be at with the entertainment

so kids would go down there, it was a B-Y-O culture,

they had a lot of time on their hands, they were perhaps kind of cramped up together

by day five of that particular year I think a few shenanigans took place

they were slightly blown out in the media but the authorities came in nonetheless

pretty heavy handed and the kids responded in kind so word had got around that evening

that there had been some trouble down there, kids had been arrested,

bottles had been thrown, fires had been lit and it wasn't until the next day

in the lighter day that the media got hold of it and we knew that the concept down there

needed to change if we were to continue.

We were separate but the tar stuck right, it was basically R&Vs,

this situation in Gisborne is a problem.

Exactly, people going to Gisborne, Fort Rhythm and Vines are now causing trouble

and it was a catalyst for change, the model was broken,

there's not many festivals in the world where the accommodations,

15 minute drive from the actual entertainment, most of these bigger concepts

like Glastonbury, like Coachella, people are staying on site, being entertained on site,

being watered and fed and all under the same license and under the same entity.

So to have these two competing yet complimentary businesses in the same town

run at different levels with different staff was never going to last.

We're lucky we lasted as long as we did.

Yeah also run by mates, right? Like how hard was it to smooth that relationship

when there was so much complexity going on about the futures of both endeavors?

Yeah well that was the friction that had started to appear

and I remember the day Andrew said let's do camping at Rhythm and Vines

but I was a concert promoter at that stage trying to organise a party.

I had no thoughts about multiple days and camping and with that comes showers

and how do you feed people and we didn't want anything to do it.

We said we'll run the party, we don't want to do the accommodation.

So beat up campgrounds was created down at the beach which was a fantastic concept

for young New Zealanders and people still talk about it fondly.

It was a real basic concept, grab your mates, grab a tent, box of beers

and have a Kiwi summer holiday which is you're right.

But it still happens now, right?

Exactly, it's just not branded something.

You go to any campground over summer and these kids enjoying themselves

funnelling up and just having a good time.

Some healthy in days but five days was probably too much for a lot of these people.

They'd come in on the 27th, get stuck into their work.

Rhythm and Vines didn't start till the 29th.

So that's a big five day window of twiddling your thumbs down at the beach

with a lot of binge drinking, a lot of shenanigans going on.

So that was a catalyst for change after 2014.

We bought everyone back to Rhythm and Vines.

New Dawn which was a new look and feel for the festival.

Trying to get rid of that binge drinking, spring break, bikini comp,

kind of culture that had slowly crept up on the whole Gisman experience

and get back to a more sophisticated European style festival

with beer gardens, with entertainment during the day,

the comedy, weds and motocross.

We had different forms of entertainment, some fantastic nice food people could enjoy.

We had shade structures and we tried to make it more of a festival experience.

Not about the drinking, but about the enjoying Rhythm and Vines.

Did it hit?

It did.

Straight away?

Yeah well people were at first saying Rhythm and Vines has changed

and we were like good, yes we have changed for the better.

And we didn't want to knock the nuts with a sledge hammer

so to speak with...

Is that a cricket phrase?

Could be.

We didn't want to pull the rug from these kids and say

no BYO, we had to really integrate this beer garden culture into the Kiwi psyche.

They were like oh I cannot bring my two dozen double brown into the campground.

No you can't, but we got six dollar beers.

At one stage we had three dollar beers in the afternoon.

The meaty got hold of it and said you're selling beer cheaper than water

but better than drinking on site under our licence than a bowl of vodka down at the beach.

So this beer garden culture slowly crept in and people were like oh okay I can drink here.

It's not going to blow my budget completely but it's better than buying double brown

box down at the shops.

And ever since we've got rid of BYO we can run the bars effectively.

It's a lot better for the business going forward and we're under all the consents

that we need to in health and safety and working with our beverage partners to create

a safe drinking environment.

It did work out well in the end but how close did it come to Fallen Over?

You talked about like the media got hold of it.

There was a lot of heat on you guys.

Did it come close to anything?

Yeah it came really close and at one stage we did decide to collectively end the business.

We had a number of creditors.

We had this drinking culture that was out of control.

We had the health and safety laws changed as well so all directors were going to be liable

for any incidents that happened on site.

And I remember Peter Jackson had even stepped back from his production companies because

there's just so much liability.

The Mungatu Company, the Maori landowners that we work with, they were going to be liable

for any incident that happened on their land and the authorities were coming down hard

on the drinking culture.

We started to have some competition in Tauranga with some New Year's shows.

We were at rock bottom really in 2015.

Was that financially as well?

Well financially we were in quite a bit of strife.

We'd over extended on the number of years leading up to that with artist budgets,

with running projects in the South Island, with just I guess the wear and tear of running these businesses.

We had a full time staff, probably 10 staff working at an office here in Auckland.

The economies were just out.

We didn't have a good handle on our product.

The drinking culture was a big issue but also no one was drinking at the event either.

There was I think only $20 spend so they were going back to the campsites to drink.

So the whole thing was needed a full rebirth and that's when we came up with the new dawn which was,

and we communicated effectively 10 new things about Rhythm and Vines that we're going to go.

We're going to make it smaller, we're going to make it safer, make it more professional.

We wanted parents to have trust in us to look after their kids over that period,

not get thrown in the paddy wagon like they'd seen on TV.

And we got back to our roots and we had a smaller festival that year.

We bought in some new acts like Angus and Julia Stone and Dave Dobbin,

and it wasn't about the rave or the party, it was just about enjoying the experience.

We only sold about $10,000 or so tickets that year,

but we were able to rebuild the festival with a new direction that has lasted us through to today.

So how did you turn that corner when you're all collectively deciding it's done to rebuilding?

Who drove that?

Well at one stage I was the only director carrying the can.

My business partners stepped back, there was too much risk involved.

We were already getting called by creditors.

The liabilities were huge, but the only way through was really to trade our way out.

And we had Karen, our CEO who's still with us today, fantastic leader, professional,

helping manage the creditors.

They were bang for blood, but we had to bring them along for the ride and say,

look, if you want to get paid, if you want to get paid the next five years

and keep this festival going, then you need to support our vision going forward.

And we had some really fantastic support from the industry, some lenient payment terms.

We were able to trade our way out of our hole, and it took us a year or two,

but that was some of the darkest days, but also some of the most rewarding as well.

I think when you're that low, you've only got one way which is to fight yourself out

and life was quite simple because it was just, let's focus on this product,

let's get it right.

And it took a year or two, but we soon hit our straps again.

When did you start introducing things like the VIP concept?

Did that come in as part of that new dawn, or was that already established prior to that?

We've always done the Vintage Club, which was, again, for people that have been

to the festival for a few years, a little bit older and wiser and wanting some creature comforts.

So that's always been a big part of the festival, but again, it was part of the new dawn.

Let's look after those views, let's look after the Gisborne community as well.

So we used to offer, you know, pre-drinks for them and free buses into town

and things like that to help win the locals over again.

And, you know, we wanted to offer that premium experience and champagne at midnight.

And I think that still rings true.

We've got about 3,000 people in our Vintage Club now, and you guys would fit right in.

It's, you know, we've got the All Blacks are all there.

The Chiefs boys love it. They're always good supporters.

We're in. Sounds like an inside.

And you can watch, you know, you can watch from the side of the stage.

We've got TV screens to enjoy the action and you're under the vines.

You're on a daybed, you know, fizzy cocktail.

It's, you know, it's a really, a really premium environment.

Are there tears to that? Can you go above Vintage?

Is there anything like that you don't speak about?

There's a secret handshake to get into like the exclusive exclusive club.

We have talked about festivals overseas have those backstage areas

where you can be around the artists.

But we've got quite a unique proposition with the big house,

the homestead at Waihaka, where the artists are hosted.

And that's their green rooms and they're up in the bedrooms

and they've got looking out over the vineyard.

And that's a space that we keep private for them.

But out in front of the house on the lawn, we've done some activations.

With our partners, Perno Ricard set that up like a mum lounge

again, champagne and sitting on the beanbag.

And yeah, there's so many cool nooks and crannies now to go and enjoy the festival,

whether you're watching the indie band in the garden stage

or letting you hear down in the goose club, different activations.

It's, you know, the power zone on top of the hill.

You can look out, it's just, it's a real wonderland for all young and old.

We're into this.

He's selling, he's selling, he's selling.

I mean, we're just up fucking shredding now.

We're into a really exciting part of the episode now.

It's headlined here behind the scenes.

And there's about five yarns here that I want to ask you about.

And it's about artists and it's about, you know,

the stuff that I'm certainly interested in.

Can you tell us, first of all, about Chance the Rapper.

I've heard that he was one of your most memorable artists you've had.

Yeah, Chance, probably still the biggest act we've had.

Although we've got Central Sea coming this year

who's hitting his straps as an international artist.

I think he will challenge Chance's mantle as probably the hottest act we've ever had.

And it was a great booking.

We'd been talking to him for a few years about getting him this Chicago rapper.

He had a mixed tape.

He was starting to make waves.

But I think we booked him in April that year.

By November, he was the hottest thing in the industry.

He was at the White House.

His mates were the Obama.

He'd gone from, you know, just a Chicago rapper to A-list superstar.

And with that came all the bells and whistles of hosting these kind of talent.

And his agent, I remember, said he'll need a private jet to Gisborne.

And we said, I don't think there's private jets in this country, you know.

How many times have you been asked that about a private jet?

And the agent, you know, the agent said,

that's fine, he just won't turn up at the show.

They don't know what pencil planes are.

You know, they'd travel from Las Vegas to Chicago to New York and private jets.

So we ran around and provided that.

I think there's three of these jets in New Zealand that can cater for this kind of talent.

He came down.

His team took over the whole backstage production.

They had their own passes.

They took over the house as a private area.

We couldn't even get in backstage at one point because they'd changed all the tags.

Seriously.

It became a chance to the rapper concert.

Wow.

He had 20 of his team in tow.

But he put on the best performance.

He stayed on for another 20 minutes after the show.

He loved it so much.

But one of his requests was a cheeseburger with no condiments that he likes to have

before he goes on stage.

Like meat and cheese and bread.

Exactly.

No pickles, no.

And he needs it fresh.

So one of our team just pinned it to Gisborne McDonald's to have that waiting

for him before he went on stage.

But it was left untouched in this dressing room.

I think they do that just to show that you're paying attention at the working

at a world-class level.

When you meet someone like that, do you go high chance?

Like, how do you do meet the artist?

Mr. Rapper.

Yeah.

I try to get around the artist.

I'm probably more attached to the tour manager and the manager or agent.

That's more who I'm dealing with.

I mean musicians do their job and they tend to be in a bit of a zone and quite private.

But he was having the time of his life.

I mean this guy was about 22, 23, the toast of the music industry and on the other side

of the world having people sing his songs back to him.

And he just had an absolute ball.

As it turns out, he missed his jet flight back to Auckland and he was found at the airport

with all the rest of the dregs and the Georgie Fem DJs getting our charter flight,

which is this old DC3 propeller plane back to Auckland.

Amazing.

So it was quite humbling for the lad.

But probably, yeah, the biggest star we've had at the time.

And I think Central Sea this year will compete with that.

So you talk about pencil plane, Pharrell.

Pharrell come down on a...

I guess it's an Air New Zealand.

Is it one seat on each side?

Yeah.

First time I imagine he's not seen an inside of a private jet.

And it was the days I think we had a hurricane or a storm and it was super windy

and his son was on another flight coming down.

And yeah, Pharrell didn't have the best experience in Gisborne.

He was woken up a couple of times by the Edge radio station doing prank calls.

So he was pretty salty, getting on stage, didn't have much time.

That doesn't help you in your situation, right?

When you're getting radio stunts.

Some of your biggest acts.

No, but it's a great level of flying into Gisborne.

I guess Gisborne's a good level of full stop.

Driving and flying in.

You've got to pick your bags off the tractor and there's kind of tumbleweeds on the airport.

You know, acts like we had Eric Morello who was a big superstar.

DJ from Ibiza, he was there coming off the plane with his sonnies on

and just popping up in a little old Gisborne.

Yeah, Calcox and Gisborne, those sorts of things are phenomenal.

Phenomenal, phenomenal.

To the riders.

So that one was sort of like a bit of a test, but quite a basic one.

You must have heard of some ridiculous stories from riders from big concerts

Do you have any good stories from them, but also have there been any other

like memorable rider requests from R&D?

We got close with Snoop Dogg one year and I remember his demands were quite excessive.

And a lot of it's just keeping the crew happy.

And you know, it's the fried chicken when they come off on stage

and it's, you know, they've got all their mates touring with them

and their school friends, the t-shirt guy and their wife's the manager.

Do you have to pay for all those people to come?

So our deals are landed in Gisborne, so we'll look after everything on site.

We negotiate the accommodation.

Often we push back on that because we've got limits in Gisborne,

but we'll sort out their transfers and their hospitality on site

but getting to and from the country is generally their cost.

So if they're making more money, they've got more friends in tow.

But yeah, I can't remember specifically.

I remember Moby was probably one of the more particular artists we've had.

He's, you know, quite a famous vegan and, you know, animal rights activist

and he's quite a precocious kind of guy.

And it's often the team around them as well.

They have these, you know, tour managers that wrap the artists in cotton wool

and they just don't want anything out of line so the artist, you know, can get grumpy.

So our team, you know, Josh and the team who host the artists,

they work really hard to, like, you know, detail everything.

It just has to be perfect to ensure that the artist doesn't get grumpy.

On the flip side, are there any artists that you've encountered

that are just really down to earth and really normal and really cool?

Yeah, a lot of them I think.

Yeah, Carl Cox is a, he's a legend.

He's so humble.

Such a nice guy.

You know, the acts like Netsky and Wilkinson that we've had at the festival,

they become family.

You know, they know the team.

They know the crowd.

They know the ins and outs.

They've become really good friends of the festival.

So, yeah, Kiwi artists.

I mean, everyone's so grateful for the experience that Rhythm and Vines

and no one's bigger than the brand.

Sounds cliche, but people are there for their New Year's experience.

They're not necessarily there to see one act.

So artists can't really kind of walk around like it's theirs.

Public Enemy.

You've taken words out of my mouth.

An amazing group to bring out and just to be responsible for getting them to New Zealand.

Slave of Slave and Chuck D.

Yeah.

I heard there might be a good yarn about the porphyry they received.

Oh, that was a pretty special moment, flying them in.

And again, they arrived in a charter flight into Little Old Gizman Airport

and they poured out, there must have been about 14 of them.

And that's a classic case of school friends doing the merch.

And, you know, there's Slave and Chuck D and a group of dancers,

but they had all their bows and toe and they rolled off this plane

straight to the cafe, loaded up with pies, chips, Coke.

Slave of Slave came up to me, wearing his clock.

He's like, yo, Hamish.

Oh, Jay's gone.

We're all gone.

Oh, God, sorry.

Slave of Slave wearing his clock.

Clock in Little Old Gizman.

He's like, yo, Hamish, step into my office.

And I'm like, where's he talking about?

And he's like pointing outside to his office.

And getting a huddle outside the Gizman Airport.

He's like, yo, Hamish, I've got to find some weed, bro.

I'm going to fucking die.

So the poor guy had probably flown, what, 24 hours from New York

without a smoke.

And he was at the end of his tether.

And I said, look, Flay, we don't have time for that.

We've got a special porphyry welcome.

And we had to herd the crew up, like herding cats, getting them on the bus

straight to the porphyry to the Marae.

One of the most humbling experiences I've ever been part of,

these Brooklyn gangsters coming off the plane,

all bling, all bravado, walking on to that Marae

and getting that traditional Māori welcome was something so special

and Flayva just dropped his guard completely.

Chuck D, who's one of the great lyricists

and poets of our time, was able to retort to the warm welcome.

And they both said they had never felt such a warm greeting

from a country on the other side of the world.

So seeing those egos brought down to life

and little old Gizman was something I'll never forget.

Did you get him that weed afterwards?

I'm sure Gizzy would have hooked up about that.

We've also got a yarn about speaking of flights.

A group of international artists,

I think the flight was cancelled back to Auckland

and they had to be rerouted via Napier

and stopped in at your parents' house

for a cup of tea and some dress ups.

Yeah, that's right.

One year 2012 we had Scream and Banger

and this dubstep scene was the toast of the industry

and we had all these galleywags down in Gizman for New Year's Eve

and they all fly on.

We work with Field Days in Sydney and New Year's Eve.

They often fly Field Days in Hamilton, I was thinking.

That's an interesting crossover.

They all fly to Sydney on the first,

but that particular night,

flights were cancelled out of Gizman

and I was getting texts from the promoter in Sydney

saying get my artist to Sydney

or the wheels are going to fall off.

So we had to again herd these cats

and get them in the vans.

Ross, my father, had took a load of them.

Even Mum was going to step up at one stage.

They would just piss up chucks

driving over the Gizman rangers to Napier

to get their flight out the next morning

and Ross and Viv hosted them at our house

so they were having cup of tea

and trying on different costumes

and having a ball to see in their New Year down in Napier.

Heard one of them was put,

because your dad's a longstanding,

quite prolific copper

and the penon is police gear.

They were having a ball.

So that's rock and roll, isn't it?

Dad said they were a great company

going over the ranges for two or three hours

drinking in the back.

Artists just love it coming to New Zealand.

The rolling hills, the hospitality,

the audiences are so warm.

The people are so warm

and Rhythm Vines has been able to put on the map.

Has been able to be showcased for that reason

and it's something we're really proud of.

It's not just artists and people

that can have meltdowns and fail.

Have you had any massive logistical or technical issues

in the lead up to an R&V?

Yeah, we had the infamous sound desk

going over the gorge one year,

which was, yeah,

probably not something you want the day before

your festival's starting,

but anyone that's been through that gorge

knows it's quite a treacherous journey

and the truck went over the edge.

This must be on the 27th,

two days before gates open

and it's a pretty important part of the festival.

Getting that sound system and Scott,

my business partner, was on the news that night

saying, no, no, everything's fine.

These road cases are built to withstand

this kind of shake around

and we'll be back on track,

but they went down the gorge

and found the truck and opened the cases

and things were just screwed,

wires everywhere

and no state to be plugged in.

So we scrambled around

getting another sound system down.

Luckily in time they were still sound checking it

as the gates were open

and unfortunately that night we had

two of the biggest bass acts in the world,

Knife Party, Rob Swire,

who's one of the producers for Pendulum.

His whole sound is based on bass

and NetSky doing his live show

and it was probably the tiniest sound

we had at the festival that night,

but they pulled a rabbit out of the hat

and were able to, you know, the show went on.

One of the women

who works here at the ACC with us

heard you speak at a marketing presentation

or something maybe a few weeks ago

and said you had some really interesting insights

into the turnover at R&V

and that it's sort of 18 to,

and I might have this wrong,

but it's 18 to 21 is kind of like the target demo,

but they often sort of go through cycles

and you've got to work really hard

to influence or make it cool for that next batch.

Is that, if I got that right?

Yeah, we kind of double down on the target market, don't we?

So we know that that young New Zealander

coming out of school, coming out of college,

you know, is perfect for doing the road trip to Gisborne

for having the time of their life.

A lot of the marketing, a lot of the music

is aimed at that audience.

That's our core audience.

But, you know, as I said earlier,

I think we don't restrict anyone

that wants to come down and enjoy themselves

and we have got different VIP offerings

or different music offerings to cater for

a different audience.

So, yeah, I think one thing we've done really well

is continued to, you know,

to reinvent ourselves for that target market.

And, you know, no one wants to book bands for themselves

when they're entering their 40s,

you know, if you're running a music festival.

So it's keeping up with the trends on the music front,

keeping on the trends with the marketing and social media

and how do we talk to our audience

through things like TikTok

and, you know, we've got an NFT initiative

that we're working on to help

add some value to our community as well.

And we're always looking for new innovative ideas

to keep the brand alive, keep it relevant,

because no one wants to be, you know,

a stale old festival that your brother

or your cousin went to.

The last hiccup, I think,

on this journey was COVID.

And the last thing I want to do is have COVID chat.

But it was a really stressful time.

We've already talked about you getting the books out

and thinking about, you know, trying to be a lawyer again

and having your world flipped upside down.

Like, when that all started playing out,

how stressed were you?

This is your livelihood.

This is everything you've worked so hard for.

You've done so well to get it back to where it is

after everything we've talked about.

And now the fear is that you're going to lose it again.

Yeah, it was a rollercoaster that time.

And I think we're lucky to have such a strong team

and strong support from our partners at Live Nation.

We had a bit of direction

about how we would approach the potential mandate,

how things like vaccine passports would be

integrated into events.

We were in comms with the ministers.

There was a local board set up to help lobby

the government about mass events.

So everyone came together.

So I kind of personally felt there was a lot of support,

a lot of communication amongst everyone

about what would happen.

But it was certainly harrowing time.

There was no road map was there for what was happening,

especially in our industry.

And who knew how big or how long

the tail would go on this thing.

So I just turned to some other hobbies,

took my mind off the festival for those couple of years

in some respects.

And we came up with some innovative new ideas

that were outside of Rhythm and Vines.

We set up the Golden Run,

a series of concerts in January.

We did some shows at Spark Arena.

But probably just having a break from the whole

massive event industry was probably welcomed

by a lot of people.

The Live Nation thing you mentioned.

Has that given you financial security?

Is that...

Talk about the sale and why you sold.

Yeah, I think it was inevitable that we'd

start working with a business like Live Nation.

And we poked the bear, so to speak.

We encouraged them to come down and see what we were doing.

So Live Nation's a successful entertainment company.

It's a Fortune 500 company.

They've got a portfolio of over 100 festivals around the world.

And it was only a matter of time before they came into our region.

So it was a great chance to work with them first

before they potentially set up competing events

or started working with other promoters.

And there was a really good open door to the company.

They've got a great team in Australia and now New Zealand.

And they've been really supportive of continuing the vision

for Rhythm and Vines.

They leave us to it.

They help us when and where we need it.

They're fantastic with things like partnerships

and bringing in collaborations with brands such as

Pals and Steinlager and One New Zealand

and how we can help prop up the festival and promote it.

But it's given us sustainability, I think.

It's a lot more governance around how the business is run.

A lot more structure around budgeting and pricing

and best practice, I think, to run an entertainment business.

And when you come across things like COVID

and these big global events, having a big brother behind you

to help guide you and give you confidence is being well needed.

Was it a real celebratory moment when you sold 51%

and it's obviously your baby that you've grown to this point?

Of two companies, of both companies?

Yeah, our sister company Endeavour Live

is now part of Live Nation as well.

So we're probably more the creative arm.

Live Nation's fantastic at the big blue chip concerts.

So Harry Styles, Red Hot Chili Peppers.

They bring in those global touring acts.

Rhythm and Vines is the festival part of the portfolio

and Endeavour Live, our other business,

is probably more creative.

Regional shows, dance performances.

We've done the Fat Boy Slim tours in Guruvamata.

We like finding new opportunities

and taking different risks outside their skill set.

It's been a great partnership.

So was it a celebration?

It certainly was.

I mean, to work with a leading company like Live Nation

is just, you know, it's career defining

and it's going to set up rhythm and vines for the coming years.

It's in good hands.

And even last week, I was in Melbourne

at one of their promoter conferences

and you're meeting like-minded event professionals

and you're finding about the best practice to run events

and inside word on where the industry's going.

And I think those early years of being an entrepreneur

in such a silo, now we're part of this global community

and it's really exciting for an event professional

to be part of that.

Was that the thinking behind setting up the Phoenix Summit as well

is to kind of bring creatives from New Zealand together

to exchange and share ideas

and almost harvest kind of cool ways

of bringing events to life?

Yeah, Phoenix Summit's been quite a passion project

to establish a network and a community

of creatives in New Zealand

and provide an open door to the industry.

I think back to when I was starting off with my idea

and doors were relatively closed.

There was no forum to attend

or no networking events to go to

where you could maybe meet the manager of Big Runga

or the get access to the Big Day Out

or it was just quite a shot-off industry

and it was a small industry as well.

And it took me a trip to South by Southwest in Austin

as a young, I think 25-year-old

to suddenly start meeting people

and opening my eyes to how inviting

people were in the US

and so much you could learn

and you're hearing speakers

and it just felt like a big world

that we were blocked off to in New Zealand.

So I skipped forward a few years

and I guess I'm trying to set up

a conference networking

environment where young creatives with ideas

be it in music or film or fashion

could come to

an event where they might

get a touch of inspiration,

meet someone that can help take their dream forward

and just a collective, positive environment.

What does your day-to-day look like?

Looks like you've got a bunch of balls in the air

at any one time, correct?

Yeah, nice one.

But is there structure to your days

or is it sort of late night emails and phone calls

or how do you pack out a week?

Yeah, I was thinking the other day

that it's kind of consistently inconsistent.

When you got travel thrown in there as well,

trying to keep a routine

as a creative entrepreneur is hard

and I was quite inspired listening to

Izzy Whitley on your podcast

about his lifestyle

and I tried it for a few weeks

and getting up early and doing...

Did you listen to the same song?

Every day or week?

Yeah, but then the ashes came

and then you're up late watching the ashes

and then London agents are chasing you for answers

and that's the only time you can speak to them

and then you're trying to get up at 6am to go to the gym

and so it's just finding a balance, I think.

Probably not going out to shows as much as I have in the past,

trying to be a little bit more nesting,

especially over winter, but in the entertainment industry

it's keeping up with trends,

it's making sure you're out supporting the industry

and finding new acts and that's a big part of it as well.

But routine, yeah, we've got an office in Ponsonby,

we've got about 14 who work on our floor

on Rhythm and Vines and Endeavour.

Everyone works really hard, plays hard,

they're available all day and night

to work when they're called.

It's a seasonal job so summertime is super busy,

it's weekends, it's trips away

and it's flights down to Gisborne,

it's being away from loved ones over Christmas,

it's a real lifestyle and it's a real commitment

but everyone's passionate about it

and as we say it's better than working in a bank

so yeah, we're really happy.

To reference former guests, we had Dwayne Dalton

on a few episodes ago as well,

who spoke to surrounding yourself with good people

and a number of times you've mentioned the team

that you have around you, how critical is that?

Because you are the face of R&V

but there's a whole team of people behind you

that I guess have been there in the initial years

around mentorship and ones now that just do the grunt

and put the shoulder to the wheel.

So it's imperative.

And I think having a good idea is about sharing,

it's not about keeping it to yourself

and trying to do everything,

it's about delegating and it's about sharing the vision

and that's something we've done really well over the years

is not being scared to bring in industry experts

in different areas and whether it's artist hosting

or marketing or production and working with the best

and I think we've all learned a lot as well as we go

and we've been able to work on this project

and now working at a world-class level

but now we've got a fantastic senior management team

and some of the youth coming through,

we're a youth brand so it's about having them included

the young event grads that we take on,

listening to them where they think the event should be going

and what new initiatives we could be bringing.

So even though we've got a few old hands,

KB who's been there since the start,

he's still our marketing director,

he knows the brand inside out

and he's been a really hard worker to bring it to life.

We couldn't have got there without him, he's still there.

Dan Turner, our festival event manager

who delivers the show, he knows that venue

like the back of his hands,

knows all the local suppliers

and the production team's been there for a number of years.

Kieran, our CEO, has been integral part of our growth

protecting the business when we're at our weakest,

bringing Live Nation on board

and bringing a professional field to the whole company.

So there's a really key team,

Dylan who helps him with the music as well,

he's one of the best ears in the world,

knows the trends, knows the agents.

So fantastic team and yeah,

you can't take credit for it just yourself.

How do you keep on top of music trends yourself?

Is it just Spotify?

Yeah, we've heard that say about you,

you've got a real talent for keeping on top of the trends

and knowing what's gonna be popular

and delivering a good lineup.

As you get older, is it harder to keep on?

Are your Spotify playlists public?

Can we get access to those?

It's having good people around you.

Dylan, who works with me, he teaches me a lot

and what do they say, people that tell you about new music,

you know, are good people in your life,

you need to keep them around.

So having some touch points,

people that are sending you stuff

or pointing you, hey, check that out,

have you heard about that?

But it is my job, so you've got to work at it,

you know, we've worked really closely

with the Australian festivals,

so people are sharing ideas

and you get inspiration from them

and opportunities and who's touring

and lucky enough to get around the world

and see some artists as well,

like going to Austin to South by Southwest,

which is like a breeding ground for up and coming talent,

getting to some festivals in Europe

and seeing anyone from, you know,

the top of the poster down to the bottom

showing an interest in living and breathing the job

is all part of it.

Because it's a unique product, right,

and you've made your first announcement

of acts that are coming,

but people are already buying tickets

before they actually know who's coming.

It's a really interesting kind of sales model.

Yeah, well, it's something that we've done really well.

There's not many festivals in the world

that kind of sell out before the line-up's announced

and we had a few years of doing that

and we're already selling half the tickets

before the line-up.

So it's the age-old debate we have.

Do people care about the music?

I think people want to come to Rhythm and Vines anyway,

but if the product and the music is sub-par,

they probably won't continue.

And you can't get caught in a time warp either.

If we were still promoting the same acts

from, you know, 20 years ago,

we'd, you know, be pretty dated.

You've got to keep up with the trends.

And this year we've got acts like Dom Dollar,

who's one of the top house acts.

We're bringing a house feel to the festival.

We've got Crime with Central Sea.

You know, we still have the bass music

like Wilkinson and Hedex and the like

that is kind of the backbone of the Rhythm and Vines sound.

But you've got to keep up with the trends.

We've got a couple of new surprises coming.

More cutting-edge DJs, new sounds from Europe

and Ibiza that New Zealand hasn't heard

that are the stars of tomorrow.

So it's a real creative part of the job.

So is it the music that's the key part to a festival?

Or is it the venue?

Or is it what makes a great festival experience?

It's a recipe, I think,

and one that Rhythm and Vines has got.

It's a sense of occasion.

We're really lucky that we're around New Year's Eve.

People are there for a reason.

It's not just a random weekend in summer.

We might not be having the same success.

It was just another event.

Maybe that's what happened with The Big Day Out.

It was just another weekend to listen to music.

But Rhythm and Vines is that New Year's

writer passage, that trip to Gisborne

with your mates to let you hear down.

The music needs to be fresh and needs to be fun.

And the production that goes with it

needs to blow people away.

We can't have, you know,

you need decent bass music,

decent bass production.

You need the SFX and the lasers

that have become what people expect.

I mean, they're watching Glastonbury online now.

They're watching Tomorrowland.

They're watching Coachella.

They want a taste of that in their backyard.

So we need to have the production on point.

And finally, the venue, you say,

that is super important.

We say, well, Waihikara State is our headliner.

It's a fantastic venue.

Artists rave about it.

It's Rolling Hills set.

The Amphitheater set, looking over vines.

It's world-class.

There's nothing like it.

And people rave about it.

Who attend and it's something that sets us apart

from, say, your muddy race course field

of other festivals around the world.

You field days.

I've got a few bits and pieces

to get through before we wrap up.

One of them was Roma told us

that on your first date,

you said that you could have been the original 660

if you hadn't found your...

I can't remember what she said after that.

No, as if the bandmates turned up to practice.

She put your bandmates on blast.

And I'm not sure if that was a joke or not,

or if there was real talent there

and you guys could have made it.

Oh, look, I was just the rhythm guitarist,

but I had a vision for the band.

We had a really good lead singer.

You know, smooth, moldy man.

Super talented, like Mathew.

And we used to play at the Captain Cook like 660

and we loved those reggae numbers

and I had a real vision for our band.

You know, I wouldn't have helped put on a show

for us to perform at in those early years

if I didn't think we had a future,

but, you know, timing's everything

and rather than being a musician,

it's been great to still be in the industry as a promoter

and still being passionate about the music

and playing in my bedroom when I can,

but the days of being a rock star have probably passed.

Did you ever release East Coast Toast?

No, we didn't actually.

You should look at doing that.

It's a big show.

We got to send East Coast Toast.

We enjoyed it.

No, we had a few bangers.

We did some recording and, yeah, it's a long road to the top

if you want to rock and roll.

Rebranded now, Black and White Dynamite, is that right?

Yeah, well, we've been through the motions as well.

We had a folk band called Blackbird

and then we had a rock band through the kind of

White Striped Strokes era, Black White Dynamite.

What have you landed on now?

Now, well, I haven't been picked up with DJing,

so maybe that's at least the win.

Still playing kind of Dad Rock in my bedroom,

but Neil Young in Diastrates,

and that's probably my niche.

A little bit of John Mayer.

Acoustic folk is probably my niche.

That's so far from Wilkinson.

That's so far from Wilkinson, but I enjoy that.

But again, you don't want to book for yourself.

Yeah, right, I hear you.

Look, I appreciate Drum and Bass.

It's a popular sound and it's, you know,

now house music's coming in.

Grime, there's some fantastic new genres,

but it's about appreciating everything

and what works for the festival.

We'll be right back after this short break.

Last year, you had the on-site drug testing.

Was that for the first time?

Yeah, drug checking.

It's called drug checking.

The official term.

Do you know what the uptake was?

Do you not want to know what that is?

Like, it's such an interesting...

In my mind, festivals and drug taking

kind of go hand in hand.

Where do you sit on that?

I guess the social responsibility side

as an event promoter.

Yeah, well, it's probably one question I get asked most

by the parents.

You know, we've got the drinking culture under control.

The drug culture's a new frontier, isn't it?

And we've been really supportive of the government initiative

to bring drug checking into mass events.

And it's been a huge, huge vote of confidence

for the government to bring that to the events.

We now work with New Zealand Drug Foundation to test.

Not just drugs that are brought in through the gate

and confiscated, but there's an honesty box system

where punters can bring their drugs to the check-in.

And we can test that.

I think we tested around 1,600 samples last year.

And if in the case there's something dodgy,

we can communicate that out to the audience

through our tech's network, or potentially through the media

if there's something really serious.

It's starting to give us a gauge and the punters a gauge

on what kind of substances are coming into the festival

and then how we can mitigate those.

We provide counselling services as well for those

that have taken something that might not be safe.

We've got all the authorities there.

So yeah, it's a new frontier, but one we're really keen

and really positive to support.

Forgive my ignorance.

Is this an anonymous...

Come in and you can just anonymously check your drugs.

Yes.

We don't get them back.

No, you don't get them back.

No.

Oh, I thought you'd get them back.

I thought you'd get them back.

These are good to go.

It's just for safety.

Make sure they're all good.

Right.

But then presumably you would only put some

of what you've got there.

I think that's the intention.

And it's a peace of mind, I guess.

It's a funny thing to be talking about, right?

Because it's like an open secret as to what happens.

It's a good one.

I think we need to be front-footing it.

We do.

And I applaud the organisation for front-footing it as well

and not pretending like it's not a real thing.

No, it is a culture in our industry.

We need to acknowledge it and we need to, you know...

How can we address it best we can

to ensure the safety of punters?

Yeah, nice.

This question I bet you get asked a lot

as much as the drug one.

And I apologise in advance, but I want to know.

And I bet you've got a well-reserved, rehearsed answer.

Dream guest.

Dream artist.

It's normally me to ask the shit question.

Yeah.

Well, there's two.

He's got it in the notes.

He's got it in the notes.

There is, you know, there's the festival dream artist,

which is someone like Skrillex,

who has been the bass music pioneer,

which is what our sound space has been made on.

He is now having a new reincarnation as an artist.

He's one of the virtuosos of our generation in dance music,

and he's someone I've really wanted to work with

to bring out, to tear a hole in Why Hacker.

You think you get him?

Again, we're kind of working with a Kiwi Peso,

and when an artist is hot like that,

it's pretty hard to encourage them to come down.

But, no, we've got the invitation out there

and it'll happen at some stage,

but that's just a personal favourite of mine.

I'd love to get him out there.

His friend he performs with, Fred again,

is probably one of the hottest acts in the industry at the moment.

He's somewhere we'd love to get.

He's probably beyond the festival bookings now.

He's his own festival.

He's one of the top producers,

and at some stage in the future,

it'll be great to see him at Why Hacker.

And then I've got my personal favourites,

my Eddie Vedders and the like,

who are probably not suited to the rhythm and vines environment,

but it'll be great to continue promoting

and bring those kind of acts to New Zealand.

Nice.

Those are good answers.

Yeah, very good answers.

This is a Hail Mary.

I won't tell you where it's come from.

Meeting Selena Gomez?

Yeah, I spent a bit of time in LA.

I had a bit of a sabbatical after the 10-year anniversary

and needed a bit of break.

And spent a summer in LA and crossed paths with her.

So that was, yeah, that was insightful.

We ended up at a house party with some mutual friends

and she was going through rocky time with her partner,

Justin, at the time,

which she proceeded to tell the whole group about.

So it was kind of fly-on-the-wall type thing.

And she'd been dating a young English singer called Ed Sheeran,

who had whined and dined to her

and watched Disney movies together.

And she was asking all sorts of advice and telling stories

about her group of girls.

And yeah, so it was, yeah, a bit of a brush with fame over there.

Does celebrity like that impress you now?

You've met all the New Zealand celebs

and a bunch of the worldwide ones.

Does big stars like that, do they even matter anymore?

Oh, I think so.

I think, yeah, talent's probably the one thing

that you want to be around her.

Yeah, just people like Fred again,

who's one of the top musicians of our generation,

meeting someone like that, a virtuoso,

although I'm surely be intimidating.

But sitting here with you guys is an honour, you know?

Nicely said, nicely done.

A photo on your Instagram, which piqued my interest, was Dave Chappelle.

Have you got some sort of connection to Just for Laughs in Montreal?

Yeah, so my cousin Bruce, he runs Just for Laughs in Montreal.

So he is pretty well connected, as you can imagine, in the comedy scene.

Dave Chappelle, I don't know his work as well as Roma does,

so it was a huge treat for her.

He was drunk.

He was, you know, it was post-show.

He was chilling out.

He was very charming and we shared a moment.

We listened to some radio head.

We shared a couple tequila shots.

He had some photos with us.

He was very hospitable for us,

for our wedding anniversary as well.

So Bruce had organised that.

He was with us and, yeah, Bruce, he gets to meet some, you know,

some of the best comedians in the world through his job.

And having that connection to Montreal,

I went and worked there for him one summer

and got a taste of a big brand like Just for Laughs

in a big multi-day festival in a city like Montreal,

and that certainly gave me some inspiration.

There's some amazing people to be able to call on in your cell phone.

In your cell phone contact list,

my cousin that runs Just for Laughs,

like, man, there's some amazing insights

that you've been blessed with.

Yeah, no, he's probably one of the family

that's got a similar skill set to me.

And, yeah, who knows what's next?

I mean, we go over to London.

We get some great access to some of the festivals over there,

now through Live Nation and through the contacts

and agents and, you know, being backstage at Tomorrowland

to, you know, hospitality, seeing Prince in LA

was something I'll never forget.

You know, being in Berlin, seeing Radiohead play creep

from the side of the stage.

You know, there's stuff that you kind of dream about

when you're a kid, so...

It's a long way from the guardies.

The guardies' jukebox playing Pearl Jam, so...

No, it's been a great journey,

and, yeah, we'll keep throwing these events

as long as people keep supporting them.

Man, understatement. Understatement.

Like, everything we've just talked about

from the beginning of an idea to what you've built

and the influence you've had on New Zealand and culture

is so cool.

You should be so proud of everything you've done.

But what...

Before we do get to the wrap-up...

Before you go for this, are you going for, like...

What's next?

Can I just ask...

Yeah, go ahead.

Just while we're in bits and pieces mode.

Very, very well-watched YouTube clip of mine

is Alex getting called on stage at Glastonbury

to do AJ Tracy's part.

In your opinion, was that a setup?

No.

Wow.

What are you talking about?

It's a real cultural moment.

I don't know if I'll do it just...

Yeah, you need to explain it to the audience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So there's a clip where...

Is it Santan Dave?

Dave's the artist.

Yeah, Dave.

So Dave's the artist,

and he's got a song with AJ Tracy.

He's at Glastonbury.

So Dave's doing a bit,

and he stops for a minute, calls someone out.

To come up and do AJ Tracy's part, the other part.

A bit like you doing Gangster's Paradise.

Okay.

So this kid comes up.

Yeah.

And like, word for word, spits.

And also does Dave's part as well.

Dave's like, just do AJ's part,

and he just does the whole thing together.

It's an incredible piece of cultural nuance.

Yeah.

But I always thought, ah, this is a setup.

This has got to be a setup.

But it's an organic...

No, I think so.

Because, you know, they point to the crowd.

They're trying to find someone

that looks like the Die Hard Passionate fan.

And anyone that's up that close is a Die Hard fan,

knows all the lyrics.

He's probably seen him a few songs prior,

rapping along.

He pulled him up on stage, and it's a risk.

You know, it could not pull off,

but that time it did.

The guy's gone global.

Apparently he's his own rapper now,

called Alex from Glaston.

That's his name.

And Dave gave him a break.

But, yeah, I think you'd find that

in any mosh pit, any artist, you know, Die Hard fan.

Wicked.

So you wouldn't kind of plan to stunt like that

at R&V, for example.

No, we don't really need to.

We've had some characters do some things on stage.

We get the All Blacks up there.

We get Willie Whiteower.

And he did a big boat race across the crowd in a raft.

We had his uncle Rick up there doing a headstand.

We've had...

I thought you were saying a boat race,

like you had to line the crowd up.

That's what I thought, too.

Down a vessel, like a big Mexican wave of drinks.

That would be amazing.

Johnny Danger wanted to do that,

but in the end he just had the world's biggest

Danger Swig, which was 10,000 people

kind of necking the bear at the same time.

We've had Brad Webber kick rugby balls into the crowd

and guest DJ sets.

And, yeah, we're definitely not scared of a gimmick,

but, you know, they're reasonably kind of organic.

Fire away.

Two things.

First one is 21st coming up.

We've spoken a little bit about it,

but sell it if you need to.

What's cool about it?

What are you doing differently?

Everyone has to do a yardie on entry.

On entry.

Yeah, well, it's going to be the 21st to end or 21st,

we're saying, where the key, you know,

you get your key when you turn 21.

Perhaps in our era, it was what you did.

And so that's our theme for the year.

So we're unlocking the Rhythm and Vines experience

and demystifying it for those that haven't been in it.

Oh, man, he's speaking to us.

As I said, you can't put a price on the time of your life,

and that's what R&B offers, and it's that escapism.

It's that chance to leave the world behind,

you know, roll down to Gizman, roll over the hills

into this paradise, and lose yourself for those few days.

Meet new friends, you know, come across new music.

Reset for the coming year ahead.

Make some resolutions.

And with the soundtrack of Central Sea, Don Dolla,

and some of the fantastic artists we've got

with the setting of Gizman, the sunshine, the beaches,

you'll leave that place a new person.

And it's a rite of passage for a reason.

It transforms people, and that's why people keep coming back.

It's an intoxicating recipe that keeps us engaged all year

to throw this event.

And in a world where nothing feels constant,

Rhythm and Vines is.

And how many tickets left?

Well, I better get in quick.

We've got an announcement coming up,

but yeah, we're about 70% sold,

so recommending people get in now.

Book their A-com.

A lot of the houses are starting to go,

so if you're wanting a batch-type experience,

then jump online and try and secure one with your mates.

Camping's all but sold out.

I think there's a few remaining glamping spots,

but start to gather your mates and make the commitment,

because no one wants to be at that batch,

you know, twiddling their thumbs,

and saying, wish I could have been there.

This is the year to do it, so make it happen.

I think even more special too, given the challenges

that Tairawhiti Gisborne has faced,

cyclones for the country to get behind and to support as well,

and put some money back into the local economy there.

That's a great, yeah, great statement.

We are directing all our funds to the Gisborne Relief.

We're really proud to come from the region.

It's been disheartening to see some of the damage

all through the East Coast, so if we can bring

a bit of light to the region through the festival

and help raise some money while we're doing it,

then it's a great concept.

We've had a little bit of damage on-site through the cyclones.

Some of the culverts have blown.

There's been some creep on some of the hills,

so we're finding our own challenges

with some of the damage down there,

but some people are doing it really tough,

so we want to get behind the region

and give it something to look forward to.

You also used the site in terms of some emergency service relief

as well, right?

Yeah, no, we put some of our tents up for use as well.

We've got a lot of infrastructure, the portaloos,

and it was on high ground, luckily, from the floods,

but we actually got hammered the last month

with just the rain, I think.

The hills are so soggy, so we've got a bit of time

now to dry it out before the festival,

but the whole region and Hawke's Bay has just been hammered,

so our thoughts are with them.

Last one from me, Hamish.

Are you the kind of guy that looks far into the future?

Like, do you think in 10 years' time

you'll still be running R&B?

Do you have plans for the sort of second chapter of your life?

I don't think I'll be as hands-on

with Rhythm and Vines in the coming years.

I will always play a part.

You know, it means a lot to me,

and it's a big part of who I am.

I've got some great connections and contacts

I can keep feeding towards the event,

and as long as I'm in the country,

I guess I'll be getting right behind it.

But no, I've got big ambitions.

It's been 21 years of doing this project,

and I've got some other balls in the air.

I'm really passionate about the Phoenix Summit.

Roma and I wanna continue doing some travelling

and work on some other projects,

so I think it'll be one important part of my life,

but probably not the only thing I hope I've done.

Mate, it's been so cool hearing your journey.

This has been awesome.

It's been so engaging and entertaining,

so thanks for coming in and sharing our story,

but it's really a shame.

Yeah, amazing in the last couple of days

to see how you turned an idea,

and so many of us have ideas.

This podcast started as an idea,

and turning that idea into reality,

and sitting and listening to the small nuggets of wisdom

that you're able to drop around

just working continuously on it,

hard work, doing stuff behind the scenes,

and it's helped graft me better.

It's easy to see why it is a rite of passage

and an institution, and a Kiwi institution.

You should be so, and I'm sure you are,

so incredibly proud that every year,

people flock to this thing that you've created

from back in your brain and to need it.

It's a shame that we haven't been yet,

but I'm sure we will get an opportunity to one day.

Maybe, Stevie, you can take your kid's window.

I need a two-year runway.

Sorry to say it now.

But it is phenomenal, and I've taken away

a lot of kind of cool little nuggets,

and I'm sure a lot of other people will,

on just pursuing and grafting and building

and making something as good as it can possibly be,

and it is great right now, and it can only get better.

Look forward to celebrating 30th and 40th with you

when you come back for those milestones after the 21st.

Thank you very much, mate.

No, thanks.

I mean, what you guys are achieving with your podcast is,

you know, it's action, and it's tenacity,

and, you know, anyone can do it,

so grab that idea and make it happen.

Cheers, Amish.

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