Mamamia Out Loud: From Media To Friends, How To Manage Your Child's External Influences

You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded

on.

Hey out louders, it's Mia Friedman here and I'm in your ears on this Monday public holiday

to tell you about episode 8 of How to Build a Human Season 2 which we're going to give

you a bit of a sneak peek of because it's all about handling your child's external influences.

So from friends to TV ads and family, toddlers are really shaped by so many things.

And How to Build a Human is our podcast that is hosted by parent educator Jen Muir and

Mamma Mia's only Campbell and in this episode it discusses ways to shield kids from negative

influences and really encourage positive ones.

And Jen also highlights all the positive impact of grandparents which is what I'm interested

in it because grandparents can have such an impact on a child when they're younger.

So obviously that's super close to my heart.

This conversation provides some great advice and tips for parents of toddlers and smaller

kids in particular.

So enjoy it and send it to someone if you think it might be something that they'd be interested

in listening to.

This episode of How to Build a Human is made in partnership with Lego Duplo Bricks.

Every day life is their big adventure to learn and grow.

Start off big with Lego Duplo.

This season we've learnt more and more about the journey of toddlers who are exploring

a crazy big world.

From finding ways to get your little ones to actually listen, to helping them navigate

friendships and find confidence, this season we have learnt just how incredible their little

minds are.

And we know preschoolers have got a lot on their plate managing all these outside influences

that come at them from every direction.

Families a big deal and when they've hit preschool they've got to handle their peers

as well.

And in today's world where media is everywhere with television, shows, apps and more, the

number of external influences has multiplied.

So how do we help them handle all these influences and make the best choices for our little ones?

And what do we do when external influences have influenced them to do the wrong thing?

This is How to Build a Human, Mamma Mia's podcast for parents of toddlers all about

big play and big future.

I'm Lee Campbell, an executive editor here at Mamma Mia and I'm Alexander's mum and

his imaginary friend Batman influences him to do the wrong thing sometimes.

And I'm Jen Muir, I'm a parent educator, mum to four boys and while I've seen my boys

get excited and follow friends into trouble or influence others to get into trouble, the

really good news about younger kids and preschoolers is that by far the biggest influence on them

is us and it can be a good thing and a bad thing because they are always watching.

So Jen, can you list the external influences that might surround a typical toddler or preschooler?

What are they?

So there's a number of influences outside of us.

So we know that there's peers or friends, there's media and particularly advertising.

So anyone that lets their child on YouTube or anything like that, we know that they're

going to get access to advertising.

But one of the biggest influences on our kids, which is kind of a good thing, is what we

call a secondary attachment figure.

So that's a grandparent or an educator or any other special figures in their lives that

may not be their primary caregivers or their parents, but those people that are still really

important.

Now, they play a really profound role in those younger years because they can help reinforce

the rules at home or the values that you're trying to teach, but they also often love

our kids and they support the good in them as well.

And then the other things that can influence our kids is, you know, I guess the school,

the community, if you're part of a church or anything like that, those things can influence

our kids.

But the evidence is really, really clear that the number one influence on young children

is their primary caregivers, the sun, the moon, the stars orbit around us for them.

And so we have the biggest influence until the 20 and 10 years and then we lose them.

Interesting.

No pressure.

No pressure.

What are those types of external influences that can impact our children's development?

So those secondary attachment figures play a really big role in impacting our kids' development.

We know that when we study grandparents particularly and the role on young families, they play a

really incredible role.

They lower the incidence of depression and anxiety in the parents and in the children

long term.

So we know that just by having those figures around, it doesn't have to be a biological

grandparents.

If you don't have that, it could be a special neighbour that plays a role, you know, the

adopted grandparent.

Yeah.

Or it can be teachers.

We all know that a teacher in our lives growing up really impacted or shaped us in some way.

I thought of one straight away as soon as you said that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So sometimes, you know, a teacher just says something about our creativity or about a

skill or a strength that we have and that really sticks with us or guides us in some

way and that can be really profound.

So it's a really beautiful thing that these secondary influencers can make a big difference.

The other thing that can really influence preschoolers can be those wonderful things

that they teach in preschool and that the day cares they're at.

So sometimes the philosophies around recycling or caring for the environment or maybe around

kindness and looking after friends are things that are being modelled at home.

But having that second influence on our kids' brains and they go out into their little world

and they hear more about that or that's reinforced for that external world, that can make a really

big difference in shaping and just consolidating that knowledge that we're trying to build

at home.

Alexander came home the other day and goes, Mummy, guess what I learned it about today?

It starts with M and after I guessed half an hour of M words, it was pollution and he's

obsessed about pollution now and littering in the ocean.

And yeah, he's really engaging and listening to his teacher who he adores and learning

because she's so engaging with him in the way she teaches him.

I've had my kids come home and tell me, please don't put that banana bread in my lunchbox

anymore.

It's not a healthy choice.

Interesting.

Really.

I love it.

So it could be good and bad.

Well, that's good.

Can you elaborate on the positive effects that external influence such as families and

peers, you know, cousins, aunts, uncles, school friends can have on our children's growth?

I think especially in those moments as parents where we can get so caught up in the grind,

we're working so hard on the end goal of creating a great human and grandparents can

just walk in and connect right in the moment.

They're not responsible for how that child turns out.

They get to just enjoy them and they believe in them and they adore them kind of, you know,

they just don't have to get us caught up.

So I think they can cheer our kids on and really sometimes I've found there are times

where my kids are going through, you know, whatever it is, sort of a time that's a bit

tricky with friends or, you know, maybe they're refusing to try a new food and it'll be a

grandparent that can get through sometimes where a parent can't.

So I think they can play that really positive role.

That's for me is my niece.

So Alexander's cousin.

She's 14 and he is enamored by her.

So an older cousin or niece.

Yes.

Oh my goodness.

He can make such a...

He will eat things around her that he's never touched before, but he just wants to impress

her and I'm assuming that's a good thing.

So on the flip side, what are the potential drawbacks or negatives associated with external

influences like media or technology on children's development?

So our hands are a bit about how a child that suddenly wants a specific toy or something

because they've seen an ad.

And I think these days because of the way we consume media, our kids don't watch as

many ads as we did growing up.

But those ads can still get through and depending on what we're allowing or sort of how much

we're supervising, I found my boys suddenly want something that they've seen.

My youngest son now knows how to go to the, you know, one of the toy companies online

and search for what it is that he wants.

He goes, mum, can I add to cart?

Does he?

Yeah.

I mean, thank goodness he doesn't have my credit card yet, but I let him add to cart.

He's sort of learning how to become a little consumer.

Look, that is an OK thing.

As long as we're aware that what our kids are consuming, you know, that's not necessarily

focused on getting the best out of our child that's around, you know, selling stuff.

So I think it's really important we have some guidelines around what they're consuming

in terms of media or we have a sense of what it is that they're watching and whether there

is ads.

Not all media is bad.

And my youngest, so we're reading these little sort of graphic novel comic books to him at

the moment.

And he's decided based on the fact we're sort of reading these books that he's going to

be a famous comic book artist.

And he's onto comic book number 16 and he's madly taping them up every night and getting

so into that.

And I think that's a really nice side of that.

So I think, you know, it's about having a balance.

For us, it's just depends on what we're watching.

For example, Alexander will watch Coco Mellon and the baby will have a lollipop.

So then he'll go, I need a lollipop, you know, and that's not an ad.

No.

It's not for me as the adult to set the boundary because I can't protect him from ever seeing

a lollipop in the world.

And so sometimes on media, they will see things, you know, a cupcake, but it's seven o'clock

and it's time for bed.

And so I set that boundary.

So sorry, there's one on the show, but you can't have a cupcake.

Yeah.

And we're the same, right?

What about when you're watching TV and there's an ad for chocolate and then you're like,

I need that.

Right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

No one's immune.

Talking about media, you know, everything is media.

Reading a book is a type of media.

Yes, that's right.

And yeah, we might give our kid a tablet from time to time and they watch some YouTube.

Is they're good and bad?

I mean, I've found my kids are just as influenced by the books they read as what they see on

YouTube.

But I have noticed that YouTube or media that's technically fast moving and addictive in nature

can be more consuming sort of in the moment and they can suddenly want something so much

more and it can be so sort of powerful.

And that can limit their creativity, whereas sometimes what they read in a book can lead

to them just going and making that up like my son with the comics and kind of being quite

creative about, I think I'm going to be a comic bookmaker.

So I find that it can guide them in different ways.

You know, my eldest, I don't think saw his first ad of anything until he was like 10.

He's like, what?

I don't like this show.

Yes.

Alexander says, not another ad, but now he knows how to skip them.

Yeah, no, my son was like, I don't know what's happening.

I don't like this show at all, whereas my youngest, you know, obviously thinks slip

in the house and he's consuming things that his older brothers might be watching.

And so it's much harder and he's been exposed to much more.

And it's really just about, I get it, you're saying all these great things in the ads,

but, you know, we're not going to get all those things or we can put it down for your

birthday.

Sure.

So speaking of external influences, you've touched on that primary caregivers are the

key influence at this stage, but how can we use media like books to, I guess, show

our kids diversity in the world that they might not get from their mum and dad?

Is that a good thing?

Yeah, such a good thing.

And it's so important, you know, it's so much better to read a book about diversity and

show kids images of kids in wheelchairs or reading books about mental illness or anything

that can sort of impact us as human beings.

So much better to have read and talked about those things as often as possible before they

see it in the world.

And they're just not understanding it because they've never seen it.

So the more we can expose kids and encourage really open conversations about those things

that we don't necessarily have going on in our home, particularly, the better.

So I think, you know, it's human nature to go, you know, screens are bad and that kind

of influence is bad, but, you know, IRL interactions are good.

But what if they'd have that really naughty cousin or, you know, they come across someone

that's sinister and it's an external influence?

How can we make those teachable moments or what do we do there?

Can we protect them from bad external influences?

Yeah, we can.

And as parents, we need to really tune into our gut around someone.

So they may even be friends around your child and you just notice that maybe they're not

always kind and, you know, yes, that's an opportunity for us to look at our child's

social skills, but it's also like stopping and noticing and going, what's happening there?

We can coach our child to become a bit of an emotion detective or a social detective

and sort of like, how does that person make you feel?

And do they welcome you in or do they turn their back when you kind of come close?

And what do you think that means?

What is a good friend?

So we can talk about all that.

It's really important not to so much talk about stranger danger as tricky people or that no

grown up should make you keep a secret, particularly really, really important talking

to kids about that stuff and not just a grown up, but yeah, like a cousin who wants you

to do something or someone's doing something and maybe you don't feel good about it.

How do you speak up about that or come and get help?

So I think, again, it's about having really open conversations and when things do go wrong

or your child is misled in the wrong direction to do something that maybe isn't kind or isn't

what's within the values of your family using that as an opportunity to coach after the

fact and say, OK, so I can really understand why you want to impress your cousin or whatever.

And that makes a lot of sense because they're older or whatever it is.

But how did that make you feel when the impact of that was this and someone got upset?

And then we're using that as OK, what could we do next time?

So again, just always patiently coaching through that.

So do you think at that young age, they do have intuition if a person doesn't feel right

or a situation doesn't feel right or an external influence isn't right?

Do they have it at that age?

I think they do.

But we can teach them to ignore that intuition if we're focusing only on always be a good kid

and always be polite and hug everybody and be that always compliant.

And that's why it is so important that our kids can speak up, can say,

I don't feel comfortable hugging that person or I don't always want to be a good kid.

And so if we can make sure that's always an OK thing and keep reiterating

that message that there's nothing your kids can't tell you is so, so important.

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So now we know what external influences are.

We know that some are good, we know that some are bad.

Let's talk practicality, my friend Jen.

What are some practical ways to help our little ones manage all of them?

How can we effectively address and handle negative phrases

or tricky behaviors that our kids may pick up at daycare or preschool?

Remember, I told you I'm a silly old man and there's there's worse.

There's worse.

So I think the biggest thing to know is that particularly in the first five years,

we are by far and away the biggest influence on our kids.

So we've got the upper hand here

and it's about being really confident to know that we have to have a handle

on particularly on boundaries and on limits

and that ability to be really clear about what works and doesn't work.

So one of the things we can set up in those younger years is that,

you know, I know that in your friend's home, they're allowed to X, Y, Z

and this is what we're doing in our home.

You can be upset about that, but I'm still able to hold that rule.

That's going to be really, really important longer term

because we eventually do lose that influence

where they think the sun and moon revolves around us.

And as my son says, we become cringe.

So it's, you know, it's really important to build that up.

But the other thing is sort of knowing that kids will go through phases

like, you know, bad language or certain things that they pick up from friends

that they think is super funny.

And I find just sort of leaning into that underlying feeling.

So a child who's come home and they're acting in a way

that feels maybe not like them and more like their friend.

And you feel like it's an external influence.

I'd be leaning into like, obviously, you're really enjoying that friendship,

aren't you? And I can really understand you have a lot of fun, don't you?

OK. And you can still be honest about, I don't particularly like that language

or here is what the boundary is at home.

But I really understand how excited you are.

So be excited, enjoy it, but not that language in our house.

Thank you. You know, that kind of thing.

OK, I've been doing that all wrong.

Well, I can tell who he's been playing with when he comes home.

Anyway, how do we teach our children the difference

between the behavior of others and how they can choose to respond?

That's a good one.

So I love the idea of starting to talk to kids.

And I love the analogy of becoming a friend detective.

So it's one of the best things I sort of ever worked out with my boys.

It was like you're having a hard time.

Maybe there are kids that are not treating your child right.

And you want to go, don't play with those children.

They're not nice to you.

You know, and actually, that's never going to get you anywhere

because kids will butt up against that pressure

and do the exact opposite of what we say.

So instead, we can just say, I want you to go to school

and become a friend detective and have a look around.

And I want you to notice who welcomes you in and who smiles at you.

How do those people make you feel?

We can ask our kids as we're driving along, what's a good friend?

What do you think is a good friend?

And we can talk to them about you.

Do you think if you like really care about someone,

you have to do everything they want you to do, for example?

And I think that's a really, really powerful one.

So, you know, if you're a friend, such a good friend, you know,

that old saying that our parents would have said,

if your friends jumped off the bridge, would you go too?

And I would be like 100 percent, I would.

If someone said jumped off the hybrid bridge, would you do it too?

I'm like, probably. Yes, I would.

Yes. So we kind of instead want to look at how does a good friend make you feel?

And there's a difference there because if a friend is saying, look,

I won't be your friend if you don't jump off the bridge.

That's not a good friend.

Probably making you feel great.

And so if we can slow down and tune our kids into how that makes them feel

and then ask them, you know, what about a friend that makes you feel good?

Talk to me about what that feels like.

And often with a little bit of that awareness,

they can start to spend more time around the people that make them feel good

and help them to make those good choices.

Because they're tuning into that energy, right?

And again, their intuition.

The other thing we can do is teach children about consent

through the way we set boundaries.

So I often talk about the importance of that or ask those parents.

So when we say, darling, I love you to the moon and back and my answers.

No. And you can be upset about it.

I'm still going to hold my limit because it doesn't work for me to say yes.

We are saying that we can be in relationship with someone.

We can love someone completely and still not always want to do what they want to do.

So what we're teaching them as they go into their social world

is that they can absolutely care about their friend or really want to impress

their friend and still not feel like they have to do everything

that person wants to do their boundary.

They get to hold their boundaries.

So when we hold boundaries,

the biggest gift we're giving our kids is the ability for them to hold their boundaries.

Wow. So me, the cookie. Yeah.

He's teaching Alexander his own boundary. Yes.

Oh, Jen, that's the bigger picture.

Yes, it's a bigger picture.

And it makes it easier in the moment when doing it

because you realize what a beautiful lesson it is.

You're being authentic.

And he knows he's so safe in that love with you, but you still can say no.

Yes. That's real love.

That's real love. OK.

What are some tactics for reaffirming the boundaries and positive language

that parents and toddlers can use in their homes?

Two big things.

One, thank them as often as you can.

Thank your children.

This morning I had a shower and I realized there was no towel.

And I had to beg my youngest who was busy in his comic book writing

to get me a towel and he didn't want to go.

But I was like, Harry, like I really need your help.

Can you get me a towel?

And he did it and he came in and he handed it to me and I said, thank you so much.

He saved the day.

You know, he had a big smile, so thanking them whenever you can

can make such a big difference in teaching them this stuff.

And the second thing is boundaries, but they've got to be clear and kind.

And so what we want to do is always think if I'm setting a limit

and there's no clear or there's no firm, I'm off track.

If I sound all sort of weak and if I'm setting a limit and it's all firm

and there's no kind, which happens, I've got to reflect on that and go, OK,

so there was no kind.

So it's about sort of working out how do we set limits for our kids

in a way that holds their perspective while still being authentic

and saying this doesn't work for me.

That's really important.

And they're the two biggest things. OK.

What are some ways we can help them cope when they're faced

with external influences again that maybe aren't great?

I think if we can work the sense of in our family, in our family,

this is how we do it and it's totally OK for people to do things

differently from a very young age.

It can make things much easier.

So that might mean that we don't lie or white lie ourselves and say,

this one is spicy.

Instead, we just say, look, it's a grown up drink.

And so it's just not for you, my little friend.

That is really important.

So that ability to hold a boundary or that ability to say,

I know that at your friend's house, they can jump on the couch.

Now, at our house, that's not how I want you to use our couch.

It doesn't work for me to have you jumping on our couch.

So my answer is no to that.

And I can understand if you're disappointed, but we can jump on the trampoline.

So we can actually hold from a very young age

that things can work differently in other homes or within other different

families, because that works for them.

Yeah. And this is what works for us.

And there's such freedom in that because as your children start

to even from preschool or age, they'll be saying,

but in other people's houses, they get to do this.

And there's such later, and there's always going to be differences.

And if we can just really own that and say, oh, I don't really understand.

You might be thinking that sounds so good.

But in our house, this is what works for me.

And this is what we're going to do.

And we can always keep talking about it, but making sure that it's OK

to have things be different is important, because eventually

the asks get so much bigger and more challenging as we get older.

So you better set that boundary early.

And I guess they have then an expectation of this is what mum and dad

or the primary caregiver expects.

That's right. Yeah.

Let's go back to media, which is very prevalent, as you know,

lots of kids have tablets.

I wish my son liked his iPad more, to be honest, but he doesn't,

which is a good thing. But, you know, he'll get into it.

Because he's too busy playing with Batman.

That's right, which is a great for his imagination.

But how do we manage the influences of media knowing that it's part of our world?

How do we manage that?

I think we've got to make sure that there's a really open and consistent

conversation happening around there's nothing you can't tell me.

If you see anything ever that you find scary, you think, what was that?

Or you think, I don't think I should have seen that.

Come and tell me and show me.

I really want to know.

I think that's the biggest thing, because kids media is part of their world.

Even if we're, you know, living in a house where you've got no screens,

which I don't know if that exists, but all the parental controls,

they're smart enough to work out these days. And it's incredible.

So you can't get around that.

So you've got to have your rules.

I think as parents, we get to control the devices.

The biggest thing we've done in our house is we don't give kids their own devices.

We own all the devices and they kind of get to use them.

It's a bit of a privilege, not a right.

And so then we control where they get used, when they get used, what gets consumed,

you know, so there's rules around phones in rooms, around the fact that we want

our kids within our eyesight, preferably where they are consuming media.

And then we just keep reiterating.

And I think you've got to do it over and over and over again,

because you think you've covered something off.

Like, you know, if you see anything and you feel uncomfortable, come to me.

But we know that many children get exposed to adult content by age 10.

So it's so much younger.

And so the other thing we can do is make sure that we're getting in first.

So we talk to our kids about anything we want them to know before they're Googling it.

And I guess as they mature, yeah, they watch more mature things,

but there still might be things they don't understand or that is scary.

So you can't just have that conversation once at four and hope that they remember that.

That's right.

But you want to keep going back to it and saying, you know,

if you ever do see anything uncomfortable, it's so important to come to me

and let me know so that I can help you with it, because I'll always help you.

And there's nothing that you will have seen or done or looked at

that would have us not able to step in and help you and be on your team.

Yeah.

The biggest point of all is that the biggest influence in those younger years is us.

So it's about really knowing that those first five years or the first thousand days,

we have the most incredible opportunity to influence our kids in the way

we show up in relationship with them and send her pressure.

There's still time, but being authentic in that.

And it is that balance of being the best we can be and saying,

sorry, when we get it wrong and kind of constantly reflecting and knowing

that that's when we're betting down everything around how they'll make

decisions around all those external influences as they grow.

Well, that brings us to the end of this season of how to build a human.

We've had such a blast learning all about our little kids, wonderful brains

and how to help them become the best version of themselves.

What do you hope people take away from this season, Jen?

I think the biggest thing would be that you don't need to get it right all the time,

that nobody's doing it perfectly and the good news is kids do not need perfect parents.

So anyone who's been listening to this podcast and trying to implement things

is doing an incredible job because just the fact that you're thinking about it

and reflecting shows how much you love your kids.

And I would say whenever you feel lost, if you could just start with connection

and give yourself loads of compassion, because it's hard raising little humans.

We don't always know what we're doing.

But if we start with connection, it will certainly get us off to the right start.

Yeah, every time I've had a little bump in the road over the last few weeks,

I've had your voice in my head saying connection, connection, connection.

And if you can boil it back down to that, you can go from there.

For sure.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you've loved the show, make sure you share it with your friends

and we'll see you next time. Bye.

This episode of How to Build a Human was made in partnership with Lego Duplo Bricks.

Start off big.

Everyday life is their big adventure to learn and grow.

It can be tricky raising little humans

and sometimes the best advice comes from parents also in the thick of it.

That's why we want to hear from all parents in our short survey.

Head over to the show notes and by completing the survey

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If you loved this episode of How to Build a Human, check out other episodes

where Jen and Lee discuss topics like understanding why kids lie,

how to get them to listen and also how to help little ones find their confidence

because I think that's what everybody wants for the little people in their life.

We'll link to those episodes in the show notes. Bye.

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