My First Million: #89 - The Man Who Gamed Uber

All right.

Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now, HubSpot

just launched a Shark Tank rewatch podcast called Another Bite.

Every week, the hosts relive the latest and greatest pitches from Shark Tank, from Squatty

Potty to the Mench on a Bench to Ring Doorbell, and they break down why these pitches were

winners or losers, and each company's go-to-market strategy, branding, pricing, valuation, everything.

Basically all the things you want to know about how to survive the tank and scale your

company on your own.

If you want to give it a listen, you can find Another Bite on whatever podcast app you listen

to, like Apple or Spotify or whatever you're using right now.

All right.

Back to the show.

Okay, everyone.

We're going to have a little bit of a special episode.

This first segment is 20 minutes, and then after that, 20 minutes is going to be normal.

But this first segment, I found this guy a couple of years ago who runs this service that, frankly,

I thought is kind of a scam, and Sean and I debated.

Our friend Andrew was like, hey, you shouldn't have scammers on there.

And I kind of agree with him, but this guy's story is incredibly fascinating.

And I don't want to tell you too much about it.

Just listen to it.

But we found this guy in India, and he talked to us at midnight his time in India.

And frankly, I'm inspired by this guy.

And I don't know if I agree with him or disagree with him, but I completely love the hustle.

And I think that you guys should just give this a listen, because it's super fascinating.

Let us know what you think.

Tweet at me, TheSampar.

Tweet at Sean.

I don't actually know Sean's handle, but search Sean Perry, S-H-A-A-N, space-P-U-R-I.

And let us know what you think.

Yeah, what's up?

What's going on?

We've got a guest here with us, Sam.

Abhishek is here.

How are you doing, man?

I'm great.

I'm doing good.

We've been talking about something you built.

You've mentioned it on the last couple of episodes, but I'm glad you're here.

So you can tell people about what you've built and what it does, and we can debate a little

bit about it.

So Abhishek, can you give us the one-minute version of what it is that you built?

So we are using a referral system to give customers the credits, which they can use

to their rides or their e-todders now, now that e-todders are available.

So that they'll get discount on their every order, like up to the 50% of the order value.

Okay, so about two years ago, or three years ago, I forget when you started, I got an email

from a friend of mine who knows everything.

He follows all the latest interesting stuff, and he loves hackers.

And he goes, there's this guy, you're in India, right?

Yes.

Right.

This guy in India, and I don't know how it works, but somehow he's accumulated hundreds

of thousands or millions of dollars of Uber credits, and you can buy credits from him

and ultimately get Uber rides for half off.

So you know how Uber gives people $10 off their first ride and gives the referral person

another $10 in credit?

This guy somehow accumulated massive amounts of $10 credits, and you can buy his $10 credits

for $5.

Now the thing that Sean and I debated was like, is this ethical?

Is this wrong?

Is this right?

Who knows?

And I don't, I think Sean was like, I think it's fine, but regardless, I think it's incredibly

interesting because, and I want to, maybe you could explain how this works, but from

my perspective, it seems like you've got a crew of like hundreds or thousands of people

taking rides and you're, either you're buying, are you buying their credits from them?

What are you doing?

Explain, explain how it works.

It's a basic arbitrage.

Like arbitrage.

In India, yeah, arbitrage.

In any US, they used to give like $10, $20 referral value.

In India, they used to give you 100 rupees, 200 rupees, say 100 rupees, in rupees.

And in India, one ride cost, it starts from 50 rupees also, 50 rupees or 25 rupees.

If you convert it to dollars, it will be like 30 cents, 40 cents, 50 cents max.

So we are taking ride using that 50 cents and in turn Uber is giving us $10 in US.

So the US account is the, is the refer.

So I refer an Indian rider, Indian rider takes a 30 cent ride and I get a $10 credit

because I'm a US customer and I get US credit rates.

That's the idea.

Yeah.

So 100, 100 rupees equals $1.4.

Right.

Right.

But that doesn't, that's the easy part, Sean.

The hard part is how are you getting all of these credits?

Yeah.

Who are your riders?

No.

Initially, I was not planning for this.

I started a blog just to promote the Uber service when they came in India about six

years ago.

They launched in India and I was just curious how it's working, how it's not working.

So I was sharing among our friends and at the time they were giving around $10 in Indian

value, about 600 rupees they were giving.

But my ride cost was around 100 rupees, 150 rupees from my flight to office.

Right.

So I was using for, to use that money for myself, I started offering others.

Then I started accumulating more value, more value like 6000 rupees, 10,000, 20,000.

Then I was not able to use all the credits for myself.

Right.

And if you're doing this just by giving your link to your friends.

Yeah.

I started with my friends, then I started a blog and blog got little popular and because

nobody was sharing that thing, that thing was totally new.

So it was popular and for blogging, I started blogging like three years back, four, around

10 years back.

So all the learning, how to make, do SEO and other things, how to make it popular, a blog.

I use those skills to make it popular, make this Uber thing popular and I started getting

referrals.

Then I initially I was not selling to anyone, but I asked my friends to give me their referral

code so that I can give credits for free because I was not able to use all the credits

for myself.

So everybody was giving, getting credits and in like hundreds of rides they were getting

this is basically because Uber like kind of, they quickly, in moving quickly, they just

they translated the $10 worth of credits to India, even though the rides were 10 times

cheaper.

And so that was the initial reason you were able to stack up so many credits, but yeah,

it was very high value.

When did you start selling the credits or when did you start making this a service?

When like all of my friends got credits, they were not able to use themself and Uber started

banning their account because Uber was thinking like they are getting credits like by some

freak or something.

So I was not able to fill their accounts also, so I was having extra credits.

So I asked in my blog also if somebody wants this, then they can pay me like some 20 rupees,

30 rupees also, like mine, the small thing because it was for me for free.

So they started coming to me, then I started selling for just small 30 cents, 40 cents.

Then slowly I kept increasing my rate because there were more people asking me those credits.

Then suddenly in India, they reduced that referral value to minimum to like 50 rupees.

So I was selling for 50 rupees and they were getting only 50 rupees credits, so nobody

was buying in India.

Then I started exploring who can buy.

Then I found out that this referral works across countries, like all over the world.

So I started exploring.

Do you remember the day you realized that?

Was it just you're sitting in your boxers at night and you're looking at it?

You're like, holy shit, this actually, I can get 10 US dollars for this?

I don't remember.

Yeah, I don't remember.

It just happened.

I think three years back something, three years back, one of my friends was also working

with this and there is another provider, Ola here.

So we were selling for that also, Ola also, and my friend was mostly into Ola and I was

in Uber.

So we were not competing with each other, just we were helping each other to promote

this.

So he also, he was also searching for some users, buyers in US, but Ola is not available

in US.

Uber is available.

So he suggested me a few friends, like few customers and I, from my blog also a few people

came slowly, slowly I got.

How do you actually sell the credit?

So your account has credits.

How are you actually transferring those to the buyer?

I don't have any credits for me, you get the referral code from the person and you earn

them credits.

Yes.

Yes.

Let's say it's your account.

If you give me your code, I will, on behalf of you, I'll refer some, some people and they'll

take right or they'll take Uber, like they'll paste any order and they will get the referral.

But are you still doing it?

Okay.

So first of all, how much traffic was your blog getting?

And did you, I guess, did you rank for like India Uber signup referral?

Hi, it was coming out one, first position, second position, I guess, for that keyword

at that time.

And how many people did they come to your site or were at the peak?

Not many, I guess, per 1000 people max.

Okay.

So you were getting these referral credits initially from your friends, but at some point

you must have run out of new friends to bring to Uber.

So at what point did you find a new way to get writers in India?

How did you do that?

Once I was getting constant purchase, like for orders, then I was asked, I asked my friends,

like other bloggers, how would they do it?

Then there is a, like in Facebook groups are there.

So few people were also, they're having similar idea of like, as me, they're also selling

the, I like talk to them and explore like how they are doing, how they're doing.

Then I said, okay, I'll give you some money.

If you just manage it with, among your friends, among your blogs, among your Facebook groups.

So somebody had said, Oh, he's got a bunch of kids who will ride Uber rides all day.

Like, you know, you go to a school and you say, Hey, hey kid, you know, 12 year old kid,

go ride this for one mile, please.

Thank you very much.

Here's, here's 50 rupees.

Is that what was happening?

Or it really was just friends.

Cause I, you could see the pic.

You guys listening.

I, I bought this.

A bunch of my friends did.

And what happens is you get $10 credits.

And by the way, and I talked to you, I talked to you about this when you log into your site,

it's super sketchy or it seems like that because English isn't your native language.

And so it was, you know, it was clear that like you, I didn't buy it cause I got scared.

I was like, yeah, what the hell this is.

I was like, it's clear.

This guy like is trying to, and so it looks quite sketchy.

And I told you this, but when you, and I did it, and it worked.

It worked wonderfully.

And I did it because I talked to you.

But when you sign up, I see all these kids, like they seem like young boys.

Like pop up.

Who are these kids?

Who are these kids?

Yeah.

I'm like, this guy is going to a high school or something.

He's getting these kids to take rides.

I have few people who work for me kind of, and they manage those kids.

Like they, they've signed up many accounts from there because in India, Uber doesn't

require credit cards.

In the US, they require, so India, you just need to have a number to create an account.

So a few people, they create account so that other people, other kids, they take ride and

you get a bonus.

I see.

So you just need a phone number, a new phone number.

Hey, it's a new writer.

Yeah.

It's a new number is available and there are several websites.

They sell just number in number unit.

So to be just enter the number, you'll get to be an account is created, then take a ride

and the referral is available.

So were you, so it was in fact like hand to hand combat kids, like you're getting people

signed up.

It wasn't from the blog initially trust from blog, then you have to compete with the orders

and others.

Other people were there who are also selling.

So the business now you need, did you have more demand?

So did you have more rides or more buyers?

It's not even time to time because Uber keeps changing their policy and sometimes it stops

everything.

Doesn't work.

Then yeah, buyers are there, but no supply.

Right.

And then it starts supplies available, but no buyers.

So has Uber ever contact you?

Do they ever say, Hey, what the hell's going on?

No, I do, but didn't count it.

I counted Uber initially.

I treated them like if you give me a hundred to piece per referral, I'll give you so many

accounts so that you can show those number of accounts to someone like to get funding

or something like that.

But that never replied to me.

Then I was not able to use myself to started selling.

No option was there.

Otherwise I was going to sell to them only like, okay, give me some money, I'll market

for you.

That's it.

So you're forgetting a major part or you're not forgetting, you haven't mentioned a major

part of this.

And this is a huge thing that I was a red flag to me, but I still did it was a you offer

a discount if you pay with Bitcoin and B, you have to change if you're in America, which

I imagine a lot of your customers are, you have to change your account to where was it?

What's the code?

Maldives.

So yeah, if you're in America, you have to change, you got to change your account to

say that you are in the Maldives, not because I don't know why I think I don't know why

you explain.

Okay, those were some tricks you can say work around in the US, they are there in the US

also they were reducing repel value initially it was $20, then $10, then $5.

Then when it came to $5, nobody was buying from us.

So we're looking for how can how we can increase it.

So we like somehow we like luckily we found like, if you change country, your repel will

go to $10.

Maybe $10 set default value in the Uber system, like if there is no country set, it will be

set to default like $10.

So you pick some obscure country and you just get the 10 bucks as you default.

Somewhere where Uber is not running.

So initially we tried Sri Lanka, but after that they are like Uber is operating in Sri

Lanka also.

In Sri Lanka repel value is set to Sri Lankan value, like some hundred rupees or something

in Sri Lankan value.

Then we found Maldives and then any other country you can set where Uber is not there,

Uber is not operating, then it was setting default value to $10, but $10 is good value

for everyone to buy.

So they were buying.

I'm giddy talking about this.

Yeah, Sam's smiling like I've never seen him smile before.

I'll tell you why I'm giddy about this, but first is it, I want to make sure I say your

name correctly.

Sorry.

Abhishek.

Yes, right.

I'm giddy about this because I don't, I don't know if I agree with the ethics of it.

I don't know, but what I think is amazing is how hard you hustle to do something.

And I think the people like you who come up with these intricate, even, and I'm not saying

I feel this way, but let's say that a listener says this is a scam and you're a scammer,

but even the balls that it took to do this and the operation that you built around this,

I find incredibly fascinating.

And I think the people who build amazing things often start out this way.

And I think that I just think that you're frankly inspiring.

I think it's amazing.

100%.

I think we had, we had Greg on yesterday and I think he was talking about like one of

his earliest businesses was he, I think it was Greg, he sold a box of air on eBay and

people just found it funny.

So they bought the box of air and he made 1000.

It's like learning how to connect the dots, learning how to make money on the internet,

learning how to tap into people's psychology and give them what they want.

Those are sort of core underlying business skills.

And so the very first thing you said was this is a basic arbitrage.

This could have been with Uber credits, it could have been with airline miles, it could

have been with any system that's out there.

If you discover a price discrepancy or a sort of a loophole in the way that the system

is set up, you know, that, that's a, that's an opportunity that you can take advantage

of.

Now, some people will say, Hey, this isn't right.

So you know, I, my brain goes down this checklist.

First I say, is this morally or ethically wrong to me?

And you know, is anybody being harmed by this?

From my understanding, nobody's being harmed by this.

Was that correct?

Or is that, you know, are you sort of exploiting these high school kids and then sending them

on rides to the mountains and then they have to walk back or something?

No, no, no, they're getting pockets, pocket money in a pocket expense.

And then the second thing is like, is this illegal?

No, this is not illegal.

Is this against the terms of service of Uber?

Maybe, but it's on them to sort of enforce that if they're going to, if they're going

to allow this sounds like you literally reached out to them.

You started this with a pure intent, which was to promote the Uber service, right?

If I take you at face value, then I, then I, I see nothing wrong with this myself personally,

but we'll let other people be the judge.

I think I'm on board with this.

I just think that because you're not a native English speaker, the site admittedly didn't

come across wonderfully, but it, it's crazy.

And I try to help you with that.

I think I told you, right?

I go, Hey, man, your site looks like you're not using the right words and I even rewrote

something for him.

Yes.

Yes.

I keep trying.

I keep updating it.

But yeah, obviously.

Shake, what are you doing now?

You said that this is going to end soon or something like that.

What makes you say that?

And then what's next?

You know, Uber keeps changing the policy.

Like two days back, they said like now referral, Uber ride referral is stopped totally all

over the world, June 29.

So it's stopped.

Now I need to look for some, I'm basically a software engineer, so I'll find some other

things to do.

Did you, how, how old are you?

I'm 35.

Did you, how much does your apartment cost to rent a month in us dollars?

Do you know in us dollars?

Yeah.

$300 something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Something 300.

And in your service, $350.

Yeah.

How much?

$350.

$350 US dollars and you at your peak were doing 20, 20 K a month.

Yeah, it was revenue, not all the profits.

Yeah.

But was it?

50% profit.

Okay.

So you're doing a ballpark.

120 K a year.

50 times your monthly rent.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Anyway, a lot.

I don't know if I did that math right.

But anyway, why did you grow up poor?

Kind of lower middle class.

And do you consider, what do you, what do you know?

It's still the same, not, I'm not spending any much.

I don't have car.

I don't have part like it's rented apartment.

You're wearing an Apple watch, I think you apartment looks pretty cool.

You know, I would say you're doing all right.

You just fascinate me, man.

I would wonder, are you, are you going to do, I'm not,

I would call this illegitimate what you did because it is a,

I don't think it's wrong, but it is like a short term thing.

Are you going to build something?

Why don't you build something?

That's huge.

Like something that can last because you're, you're pretty,

you're fucking awesome.

Yeah.

When you think about what's next for you, do you think you'll try to do

something similar or do you think you'll try to do something that's

different in some way?

Like, you know, your own service, a different, you know,

something that's has more enduring long-term value.

Yeah, definitely different from this because yeah, in this field,

it's keep getting like it's depending on someone else business.

If they're not doing good, I'm not doing good.

It's depending on something that's trying to separate from something

with less platform risk.

Okay.

All right.

So what I want you to do, man, we're going to wrap this one up,

but I want you to keep in touch with me and Sam,

let us know what you get working on next.

We'd love to support you and help you, you know,

help make that whatever that next thing is successful.

And my hope is that you come back on in six months or a year and you

say, Hey, remember me?

I'm the Uber, Uber pro guy. Okay.

Here's what I did next.

And it's even bigger and better than what you've already done.

And the website is Uber pro.in, right?

Yeah, right.

Great.

It's Uber pro.in. Yeah.

People like that.

It's like, yeah, it's camiside due to the.in.

It should be.com then it will,

they think like it's legitimate site kind of.

It looks a lot better.

I just went to the website right now.

It looks a lot better.

Your, your,

your translation has gotten significantly better.

It looks great. It just, uh,

you're a fascinating guy, man.

You're cool.

Thanks for coming on.

Thanks for telling your story.

Okay. Thanks.

Have a good day. Thank you.

All right.

We got to say good night.

It's midnight over there.

Good night. Yeah.

Good night sweet dreams.

Dude, you're awesome. I appreciate you coming.

Thank you.

All right.

All right. That guy is crazy. I love him.

Such a, such a great little story.

I just enjoy hearing those, uh,

anytime I hear something like that, I love it.

I have a feeling that little segment is going to be very,

very popular.

I would love to hear what people think.

I think that that was fascinating.

People can't see me, but I am smiling a lot.

Yeah. It's like Sam's wedding day over there.

He just knew, send in a photographer. He's ready to go.

All right. What else, what else do you want to talk about today?

Hold on. I want to wrap this up. This guy, I,

here's why this is fascinating to me. This guy,

I love these guys who come from nothing and just do all types of

crazy stuff to like build cool, interesting stuff.

Even if it is unethical, I'm like,

I'm gushing over this guy. I love these types of people.

Um, okay. You want to move on?

Yeah.

Okay. Uh, first thing I want to talk about.

Um, people fleeing cities.

Um, I posted about this in the trends group.

I posted about this on Twitter. I've gotten roughly two to 300 replies.

I put my third V date notice in.

To my apartment.

And I'm located in San Francisco.

Um, people, uh,

a report was released for June numbers.

Uh, San Francisco's rent is down another 11%.

Um, Sean, do you think that cities are going to change?

Or like some of the major expensive cities. So.

Um,

New York, San Francisco, I don't know what else.

Do you think that they're going to change forever?

Um, forever is a long time. It's hard to say.

Uh, but I would say that like, you sort of have to ask, okay,

what would get it to return to a bigger and batter heights than it was.

And I think what was driving the San Francisco value sort of originally

was the like kind of culture and the like, you know,

the eclectic mix of people that lived in San Francisco.

This was like, you know, sort of early days of San Francisco.

That went away as the core reason people came to the city.

And then it got replaced with tech.

And it's pretty clear that the tech movement has migrated away from

Silicon Valley, not just cause coronavirus, but in general, um,

you know, cost of living, getting higher and higher and higher,

as well as just winners coming out of Sweden and Israel and other places.

It became clear like, look, you don't have to be, um,

based out of Silicon Valley to A, raise money or B, be successful.

New York has had winners, LA's had winners and you know,

a bunch of European countries have had winners at Lassian in Australia,

you know, Canva in Australia.

So I think already that was happening and this was just a turbo.

This was an amplifier.

So no, I don't think that San Francisco, for example,

is going to be the hub for, um,

is going to be a bigger hub than it was in the past few years.

I think it'll still probably be the biggest tech hub there is.

It's just, it will be smaller in size.

Some of its weight will have gotten distributed out to Austin and

New York and LA and other places that, um, are benefiting from this.

I believe that the numbers are being under reported at the moment.

And I, it's strictly, what's it, what's it called?

Uh, when you just hear stories, anecdotal, um,

because I posted in this group and I had James Altucher replied and he

goes, half my buildings, uh, vacant.

Another person said, uh, two thirds of my thing is vacant.

When I try to book a moving company, um, they're packed, they,

they're, they're packed.

Were you the one who posted like, um,

you called a moving company about moves from California to Florida.

Was that you or was that someone else?

Not me.

I think it was either Dave Grossblatt or, or you, or I forgot who it was.

Uh, maybe it was my friend, Kamar, somebody posted,

they had talked to somebody about, um,

they talked to a moving company about moving from,

moving from moves from California to Florida and you know,

normal volume was let's say 50 in a month.

And now they're doing 500 a month and they can't keep up with them.

They're turning people away because they just can't handle as many moves.

Uh, that are migrating, you know, to, to greener pastures.

And so, you know, these are the leading signals that you see.

And it makes sense.

Like I, I myself moved out of the city.

I know tons of people that are either already moved, considering moving

or, or not planning on planting roots in the same way that they were six

months ago, which is kind of wild because that's a very short amount of

time for such a big migration.

Yeah, it's pretty nice.

So let's talk, let me talk about a few opportunities there are,

which is first of all, uh, when I'm moving, I'm,

I'm now I'm trying to figure out my tax situation,

which state do I, um, am I going to call home?

Um, and I got to, I have to, it's all about your intent.

And there's a bunch of things that you can do, for example,

getting a mailbox in a different state.

So virtual mailboxes are kind of intriguing to me at the moment.

The second thing is you have to declare to the state of California or

whatever state you're leaving, that you are no longer a resident.

And there's a ton of manual things you have to do,

like contacting the DMV.

Um, there's a few more things, whatever.

Uh, and that's pretty interesting.

I'm, and I'm curious what's going to happen with that.

Um, did I show you this, uh, the founder of ship?

Uh, ship. It's a, uh, it's that thing that sold to target for $500 million.

It was like a, um, I'm not familiar. Okay.

So it's called S H I P T.

Um, so it was basically like Instacart, but for the south.

The founder's name was Bill Smith.

He sold it for four or five hundred million dollars. Huge win.

Um, and he has a new company. Let me, it's called, um, landing.

And what landing does is they have a network of apartments across the

country and they're all pretty similar.

And you pay a fee and you get access to all the apartments.

And so if you go to their website now, you can go to, um,

It's landing. Yeah.

Landing. So if I've been, let's see, I typed in, uh, hello landing.

Hello landing.com. Okay. So you go, it's pretty fascinating.

It's super interesting.

So they're clearly appealing to these 23 year old young people who have a

little bit of money. Um, you can sign up. They've got 13 major cities.

You pay $200 for a yearly membership.

And then you select a variety of furnished apartments and then you

get like a slight discount on, uh, staying there for a month at a time.

So for example,

they have a $3,000 two bedroom apartment that's available in July 2nd in

Austin. And then you could spend a little bit more money and go to,

uh, DC, things like that. Super interesting.

Yeah. This is cool.

So this is basically corporate housing cause you're getting furnished,

turnkey apartments, but it's without the corporate.

It's like they just put the power in the hand of the individual who may

or may not be doing this as part of a corporate relocation.

They might just, this might just be a lifestyle relocation.

Like you're, you're doing right now. So you're going to use this.

Well, I, at the moment, because of Corona, I don't want to be in an

apartment. I only want to be in the home, a house,

or an apartment with a private entrance,

but like you can rent a place in LA,

a one bedroom for $2,500 a month right now on this website.

And it's all furnished. Um, very fascinating.

Now there's a lot of holes in this model,

but this is something that is very attractive to me and very interesting.

And Saunders kind of similar, right?

Yeah,

but they're not doing so hot because they were corporate travel and, uh,

there's rumors. I think they've laid off a ton of people.

There's rumors that they're going to go out of business. Yeah. That's crazy.

And then there's another one called guild started by a friend of mine.

Um, maybe the guild or guild and they do the same thing,

but it's also for corporate travel.

Whereas this is more so for nomadiki type of people. Right.

Very fascinating. What do you think about this?

Yeah, I like the idea.

I think it's kind of one of those ideas that's either going to seem obvious

and retrospect, uh, or you never hear about it again. Um, so, so,

so I think that it makes sense that more people are going to be doing this.

The question is, is it enough? I like the membership model, right?

Like, I think that's kind of a core difference from, you know, okay,

well, if I'm going to move, I'll just go and do my search, whatever.

But like once I'm in this network,

then I'm just going to keep picking apartments in this network, but,

and you know, I think you're trying to move like whatever every month.

Most people are probably not trying to do that.

I'm not going to do that for a long time.

Right. So, so I think, you know, the question is like,

what is the like length of stay? And are they, are they pricing these above

what it would be if I did a year long lease and they're making more

off it per month due to the flexibility? Okay. I could believe that.

But then it's, you know, it's, it's questionable if the economics are going

to work, right? Because you're going to have vacancies where, you know,

there's gaps of renting and have you, you know, do the economics work

based on how many people are trying to do this at all times.

You know, it's one of those, it's one of those situations.

You know, it's one like Airbnb where for Airbnb,

they don't pay to lease all the places.

So when demand goes down, sure their revenue goes down,

but their cost basis also goes down.

Whereas for these guys, their costs are going to be fixed essentially

because they're going to be locked into all these leases.

So they can't withstand kind of the normal demand fluctuations that other

Airbnb type site could do.

Yeah, I'm interested.

I agree with everything you've said. We'll see.

What do you got? Okay.

Let me tell you about some things that I found kind of interesting.

So you wanted to talk a little bit about levels and we've mentioned it before.

Tell me what's interesting about levels.

So levels for those who are either new or you don't remember.

At one point in time, me and Sam did this one month.

Weight loss challenge where we installed a continuous glucose monitor on

our arm and it measured, you know, how is your glucose spiking based on

what you eat. And the way this challenge was organized by,

by this guy Justin mayors was if your glucose level stays below a certain

level, meaning you're not eating sugary carb foods,

he will essentially return to deposit.

We made a deposit of like $800 at the beginning of the month.

Every day that we ate, right?

He would send Venmo was money back and it was a cool idea.

It was a fun challenge.

It wasn't super well run, but it was also both of us walked away being like,

yeah, well, this is the future.

I'm going to have a device implanted on my body that tells me how my body is

doing in real time.

And so levels is a company that's trying to productize that.

So what did you find interesting here?

Why did you put levels back on?

Yeah, this app is not in the app store.

It's a test flight.

Yeah, it's in test flight levels health.com.

So the background here is so people who have diabetes have either have to

prick themselves every certain amount of time, hours or days.

I don't know.

And test their blood glucose. And there are, there's a company.

It's a, it's like the huge health company. I forget what's called.

Probably Pritzker does it. I mean, whatever the, the, the huge conglomerates

are, they have this machine called a freestyle Libre.

Abbots.

That's the one. It's a huge conglomerates.

It's just a big thing.

And it's this thing that you put into your arm.

And it tracks your blood glucose, like with a 30 second delay.

And for two weeks.

For two weeks. And if you have diabetes, people use this all the time.

Now the problem is, is if you're just a nerd like me,

and you just want to test this and you don't have diabetes,

you actually have to get a doctor's prescription. You can't buy this.

I don't know why that's the case. I,

maybe there's some great rule behind it. I'm not educated on it.

But what levels is trying to do is to clarify, I think you can buy it.

You just aren't subsidized by insurance. So it's more expensive.

But maybe you can buy it from one of those like penis enlargement

pills websites or like something like that.

But I don't think that you can go on to Abbott.com and buy it or freestyle

Libre.com or Libre.com and buy it. I'm almost positive you can't.

And I don't know why it's so hard, but it is.

And so what levels is doing is they're doing two things.

One, they're giving you an app that you can make it easy to track your

levels, your blood levels, and they're trying to eventually create the

hardware for it.

And I think this is just incredibly fascinating.

I, I, I, I think these guys are raising money now.

And I think it might be something to bet on.

I don't know yet though, but it's really cool.

It reminds me of, like, if you had just told me the idea,

I would have been like, Oh my God, I got to invest in this.

After doing it for two weeks.

First of all, at the time, now maybe it was just early on their app.

Kind of sucked. It wasn't like the, the normal, the out of the box freestyle

Libre app was just better to use.

First you had to use it because that's how the scanner works.

And so this was like first scan it in this app and then open the levels app

to like see it in a prettier chart.

And I didn't find it prettier nor useful at all.

I think the dream for them is it's a great visualization.

It gives you tips as you go and you do your food tracking your meal logging

in it, but the meal logging was super clunky when we used it.

So I never logged my meals in it because I was like, this is too cumbersome.

So I was unimpressed by the actual thing at the time,

but I think this idea is amazing.

I think that it's going to have really high retention for the people that

opt into this lifestyle.

And so I'm a believer in the, in the concept behind this business.

I would build a business like this myself.

I'm like that much of a believer in it.

And it also reminds me like there's a company that just sold for 500 million

yesterday, I think called mirror.

Did you see this? Are you familiar with mirror?

So it's a very, it's this thing you put on your wall.

It's an actual mirror.

That's sort of like a home gym that you plant on the wall.

And there's two of these that are out there that I know of.

Tonal is one and mirror is the other.

So mirror got bought by Lululemon yesterday, $500 million.

And you know, on the surface is like one of those really hard businesses.

It's like hardware, new behavior for customers.

Really expensive.

And so you could see all these different ways that it was going to fail.

And this, this female founder who did it and the VCs who backed it,

it paid off.

And it got bought by Lululemon for a really great exit.

And I think that something like levels has the potential to be that if

they can build the really awesome consumer.

Kind of like the health conscious consumer, what they want.

That's more than a Fitbit. That's more than an Apple watch.

It's actually tracking their glucose levels.

I think they could end up getting bought right back by a company like Abbott

or by one of the sort of big, you know,

either health or fitness companies that are out there.

So I think it's a good bet as a business.

I wasn't in love with the product.

I agree on everything you said.

I think that what the problem it's solving is twofold for me.

The first thing is nutritional information and calorie information on a

lot of packaged foods and normal foods.

Do you realize how wildly inaccurate that is?

Like it could be like 20 or 30% off.

Like it's, it's pretty off. Like if you go, um,

I remember a Casey Neistat did this thing where he took a big Mac.

It took like five different big Macs. And he's like, all right,

it says on the package, um, that this is how much calories is in it.

And then he actually, you know, a calorie is, uh,

one calorie is the amount of energy it takes to heat up.

I believe a gram of water, one Celsius.

Uh, and temperature. Yep. And he acts. So they like did that test and

like, Oh wow, these are off by like 10 or 20%.

And it was pretty interesting.

I think that that's an interesting thing to look into.

I also think that carbohydrates and protein and your different macros and

nutrition, nutrient information, it impacts people differently.

Like, and I think that that's interesting to see what fits you best.

Right. What, what triggered your responses versus not.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think in general, anytime you can take something that has a

really long feedback loop and give people an immediate feedback loop,

that's a, that's the foundation of a great product. Like that's,

if that's the only thing your product did, you can win.

And that's what this does.

It gives you a really fast feedback loop on how what you eat affects your

body. And I think that's both really important.

And I think it'll be really compelling if it can get productized.

Now maybe these guys will do it,

or maybe they'll make 30% of the way progress, but like to me,

this is inevitable. There will be a company like this.

It will be uber successful.

This will be very normal for people to have on their body at all times in

some form factor, whether it's a patch on your arm or it's a, you know,

a ring or a watch or something like that. But,

and I think specifically the glucose monitoring to me is more

interesting than sleep tracking, step counting, you know, temperature,

you know, all that other stuff that's,

that's potential like for you to track because it's related to eating.

And if you can affect the way that people eat, you can change their whole life.

What do you got?

So here's one thing that I found interesting.

Alt data. So what is Alt data?

So there's this market that I didn't really know existed,

but it made sense when I heard it,

which is alternative data that people buy.

So the Alt data market is like two to three billion a year right now.

And what this means is let's say you're a trader,

you're on Wall Street or you're a hedge fund manager.

You are constantly looking for an edge.

You're looking for alpha as they say.

So how do you have an edge on the market so that you can get better returns than the average, right?

Because you're charging fees to your customer to manage their money.

So you have to beat the sort of passive indexing that they could just get by

being in the market as a whole.

So turns out there's a huge market for Alt data and where people are buying,

you know, one of the following.

It could be satellite imagery.

So for example, you can look at crop yields in different countries

and you can know how the commodity prices are going to be affected

and how that affects Starbucks because they require these beans over here.

You can look at mobility data.

That's what's happening right now for people who are betting on the economy to recover.

So Google and Apple have these charts that show how much people are using Google maps,

which shows how much they're moving around right now.

And that's a key indicator of like commerce activity.

So a lot of the people who are betting on the economy, they're trying to figure out,

all right, are we about to go into shelter in place 2.0?

Or are people getting out and about and the economy is about to recover?

It's really financially important to know that.

So they're buying mobility data.

They're buying, you know, other sources of data, which is like Robinhood,

one of their core business models is they sell the, I forget what it's called,

like flow data or whatever.

Basically they sell the transaction data of what people are trying to buy on Robinhood

to these quant funds who will then front run the market in many ways.

They'll see that, okay, a bunch of retail traders are going to buy Tesla.

Cool, let's go buy Tesla faster than they can and we'll get the uplift of this retail traffic that's coming in.

So there's all these different alt data sources.

And I just thought this was a really interesting business to do one of two things.

Either A, you could build a alt data marketplace where basically people could put their source of data

and buyers could come and browse the different satellite providers, the different mobility providers,

like whoever and you can sort of pitch what your thing does and they could pay to get in contact with you

to vet your stuff and then there could be school, the reputation market around it.

The other thing that I thought was interesting was just what other alt data sources could exist

that you could bring to market and monetize in a way that's not being monetized yet.

So I think some of this is new, cell phones unlocked a whole bunch of passive data sources,

passive data that didn't exist before because now you have everybody with a GPS and a microphone and other tools on them.

So I'm curious what other alt data sources might exist that could tip people off to make better financial decisions

or at least for Wall Street because that's where the big bucks are.

That's pretty interesting and so sometimes at the hustle people, like crazy people will email me

and they're like, oh, you're selling my data and I'm like, I'm not selling your data

because I literally don't even know how to do that.

If I could, I would.

Well, like maybe like selling data inherently isn't wrong.

You mean like someone on your email list, is that what you mean?

Well, they'll get like spam and they'll think that somehow I sold their email address,

which not even a chance, I never did that, which I know how to do that.

I know how to sell an email list, but I don't know how to like sell insights or data.

I mean, I don't even know who would buy it.

I don't even know if it's valuable.

I know nothing, but that's cool.

A great one is second measure, which basically takes credit card data.

And so people know, okay, DoorDash is beating Uber Eats because they can look at the second measure data and they can see, you know, who's doing more credit card transactions out of those different companies.

So VCs are using this.

You know, for example, I think one that would be awesome that's not public is cloud usage.

So who's AWS bills are going up.

And if you somehow knew who's, who's, who's web traffic is going up or who's bandwidth is going up or whose consumption is going up on AWS.

And that would be a really interesting signal to use to invest in companies or sectors as a whole.

So I'm just trying to think of what are some different alt data sources.

And I don't have a ton, you know, but, but I think that this is interesting and the way these are used are different.

Like you, you had told me your dad's in the like, kind of produce farming market sort of.

And they do, and he's, he's got like a, a, a me a small medium sized business and so they're not using significant data, but they definitely use the weather and they use some futures and things like that.

But yeah.

And so I think that there's a lot that's in agriculture where people are selling a specific weather data, like more specific than the sort of general weather data.

And, and also just general yield data that's that they have across the agriculture market for, for individuals in that, in that space.

And so I think that's kind of interesting too.

So I'm curious, I know that in, for example, in sports, there's synergy sports, which measures all the court movement of basketball players on the court.

Now this is a, I think it's available or it's bought by every single NBA team, because no NBA team can just afford to like not have the data when the other 29 teams are doing it.

And so these guys literally just by installing cameras on the backboard in all 30 arenas.

They now have something that's proprietary that they can sell for millions of dollars to NBA teams, just to say, Hey, here's, here's a data set that you can go and hopefully make better scouting decisions or game plan decisions based off of.

I'm looking at this now.

This is crazy synergy sports.

Yeah, this is awesome.

It's owned by a company called an atrium sports company. What is atrium sports.

I have no idea.

That's amazing. I never, ever would have thought it looks like it might be a public company. I never would have thought that this was a thing.

And I love simple ideas like that where, you know, it's not rocket science. I think they get exclusive partnerships and also the teams don't want multiple cameras having to be installed in their space or whatever.

And so and then they have like tremendous pricing power over the teams, once they have the data.

And so, and the richer their data set, like the longer they're installed, the worse the switching costs are if they ever want to use another provider, right? Because, okay, we can use this other provider, but then we lose the last 10 years of historical data that we might use to find patterns or make better decisions.

And so I think a company like synergy sports is a simple company that's very well positioned in this market. So synergy sports was either owned or co-owned by Mark Cuban and he sold it and the company sold it to atrium sports for $90 million.

Interesting. I think it's worth a lot more now because this is sort of a more recent trend.

Another thing to follow up on that sort of sports related. So we had talked about Jack's idea of a baseball card sort of Fort Knox and, you know, a place to store and trade baseball cards without ever having moved hands.

And then a whole bunch of people reached out after the podcast, which is great. Love it when they do that to be like, Hey, you ever heard of free ports? And I was like, Well, no, I've never heard of that shit. What is it?

And basically what free ports are, this is my like very brief Googling afterwards, but I was like, Oh, I should, I should mention this. I should close the loop on this.

So a free port is, is an art storage warehouse. So they, so basically people do this for art. So it does two core things. You buy a piece of art, it gets stored in a free port.

And this, they handle like sort of the whole storage process of your art doesn't get damaged doesn't get stolen. It's like, you know, state of the art security, that sort of thing.

But the main benefit, the reason people do this is because art can't be, when you buy a painting for $80 million, which people do, believe it or not, they, you have to pay sales tax, you have to buy, you have to pay tax on that on that purchase.

And so that could be, you know, four or five million bucks.

And so how do you avoid paying that tax? Well, you only owe tax once it's landed in your destination. So a free port is considered to be in transit for an indefinite amount of time.

And so, so what they do is you buy a piece of art, it goes to the free port, it's in transit for 2030 years. So it's a way to preserve wealth across like decades and not have to pay the tax until you sort of want the tax to be due.

And then you could actually just sell it to somebody else who will keep it in the free port, and then you sort of move on without ever having to like use the art as like get the art out.

And so I thought it was really interesting. I had never heard about this. I bet there's either software you could build around this or marketplaces for these or, you know, some kind of, you know, sharing economy version of free ports, like, I don't know enough about it, but it definitely made

my ears perk up. And if somebody out there wants to go do a bunch of research on free ports, I would love for you to come in our Facebook group and post what you found because I think this is very interesting.

Okay, so I'm looking up. This is awesome. Love, love this.

So there's a one called Geneva free port. The Economist has a bunch of really cool articles about it. The headlines are very clickable. It's like the largest art collection for the uber rich that you'll never see.

Right.

And it's in Geneva's and I'm ignorant Switzerland, right Geneva Switzerland.

Yeah. And this free port company free port Geneva free port it had 250 employees, and it had sales of 70 million. I don't know what that is is that with Frank I don't know what I think that's what that is.

I'm afraid you're saying yes so that's a 70 million Franks I don't know what what the conversion is right and it sold recently for a lot of money.

Fascinating. Yeah, so so I think there's more to be more more needs to be looked into into that. Okay, one last thing I wanted to bring up because we got five minutes left unless you have one if you have one you should go.

No, I'm obsessed with free ports now free port bar.

All right, so the last thing is I had this conversation yesterday. I just wanted to share this I put this in our Facebook group but yeah I wasn't sure if you were able to talk about that.

Maybe kind of a tease so sorry, but whatever.

But I still think there's some lessons to be learned. Alright, so I started somebody yesterday.

A very credible person. They sold their last company for over $80 million and they were talking about what's next.

And, and they said something, you know we were talking about how we're thinking about, you know what what the next chapter looks like.

He goes, yeah, you know I find myself I asked myself this question, which is, how do I build something in two weeks. That's going to make me $5 million in the next two months.

And literally the other people that were there to start laughing because they're like, what, like, that's not a thing.

And he's like, no, I think I think it is a thing. And he's like, you know, I didn't know the answer but like, I asked myself the question I believe that it was possible.

He's like, and so I got a bunch of ideas and he started rattling off the ideas and the very first idea I was like, holy fuck, it's actually gonna work.

Like I would, I would actually bet that that the idea he said would work, which is crazy because like, even if that idea had a 10% chance of working, it would be totally worth doing it.

If it had 1% chance it'd be worth doing it. I think this idea has like a 50% chance of working and after it happens, I will come back on here and I will be like, that was the idea that I was referencing.

But so I can't talk about the idea. I can't say who it was, but I will say, I think there's something very powerful to asking yourself this question.

You know, one of my like kind of Sean isms is ask a better question, get a better answer. And so instead of saying, Oh, what do I want to do with my life? What should my career be? What do I want to work on?

Ask a better question. And so his better question was what can I build in two weeks? Oh, and also it was with no code.

So what kind of two weeks with only using only no code tools that will make me $5 million in two months. And so he first started hunting down what are examples of things that are making $5 million, you know, across a two month time span.

And he found a bunch of examples, and then he worked off of those to figure out what can he build that's not that but similar has similar properties.

Alex to who's the guy who created million dollar homepage did the same thing. He was 18 years old and he asked himself a question. How do I make a million dollars? I think it was, I think he also said in a month, like how do I make him?

How do I become a millionaire in a month? And the idea that he came to him was million dollar homepage and actually worked. He actually pulled it off in the next like two months.

So what do you think of this and do you ever ask yourself questions like this? Or am I just crazy?

A little bit. I asked myself, I think of like what my long term goals are and I'm like how do I get the sun just like this year.

Right.

I do that all the time.

10 year plan. How do I do it in one?

Yeah, I asked myself that all the time.

But I think that most people are shocked that these silly questions can be have true answers.

Right.

And there's many examples of this happening. So for example, the Sam Ware brothers, the Sam Ware brothers, they own rocket internet. They cloned eBay, but in Germany and sold it back to eBay in 90 days for $50 million.

And I think that if someone wanted to say, I'm going to abandon my family, I'm going to abandon my health, I'm going to abandon my friends and I'm only going to do something for six months.

I'm going to be shocked at what can happen. Now, they're going to pay the price. You got to pay a price for what, for what, what you get. But I think it is great. That's a great question and I'm going to tell my company that.

So we had done a version of this, like on the podcast once, which was if you had to make $1,000, like either today or like in the next 48 hours, how would you make $1,000 and you can't use any like you only have like a whatever $100 budget.

I think you were like, I would buy bottled waters. I would go to a place and I would sell, you know, every bottle of water that I'm buying for whatever, 20 cents for $3 and I would just go in front of a hot area and I know I could make $1,000. I've done it before.

Right. That was like your answer to that.

Yeah, by the way, I made five grand this weekend. And I didn't make five grand because I sold all my gym equipment.

And I sold a bunch of used clothing, but the, the gym equipment we sold because I bought a lot of it used and there's a huge demand. I got three or four hundred replies on Craigslist from it.

So I made five, I profited a couple grand gross five.

Yeah. And Gary visa was talking about this like, okay, go, you know, go hunt free Craigslist and Facebook marketplace and thrift shop or whatever.

And then go list everything on eBay and like, you can make two, you know, $250 a day doing that and like, go show me your hustle and he like does this whole fucking hard ass work.

Yeah, it's hard ass work.

The first question, why do you get $5 million and 30 days exactly.

You're probably going to work the same same level of difficulty just with the bigger price. So okay, so let's let's play the game.

Let's say you need to generate, you need to make a million dollars in the next month. What do you do and you can't use any of your existing assets to do it.

I'll give you a budget of 10 grand.

If I had to use an existing asset, I would for sure do a course on how to start a newsletter.

That would, I would bet my life.

You can use your brain, sure, but you can't use your like hustle email list, for example, I would have, I would have to use that.

I don't know, man. That's a hard ass question. Can you answer yours first because you already discussed this.

Well, no, I just thought of it just now, but was both brainstormed on the spot. I think that's the sort of real way to do it. So okay, so what are some things that I would do.

I think partially like this guy, I would look at things that are already generating that amount.

And I would see, okay, is there a riff on this that I can use to, to make that happen. So for example, is there, is there something in the, you know, oh, I like for example, I know a guy who's making a lot of money and crypto right now and

what he's doing is sort of arbitraging between exchanges and liquidity pools to, to make money there. Okay, can that scale up to get to the million bucks. Okay, maybe, maybe not.

Maybe that's really complicated.

Is there an app that I could use. Is there an app that I could build right like, you know, the weather app and alarm clock app like some stupid simple app that I could do a meditation app that I, you know, a sleep sound app that I could build that could,

that could generate that type of revenue in that short amount of time. Well, I think I'd probably have to pay too much for the marketing of it. So in my 10 grand budget, I can't do it.

So the constraint really is the 10 grand budget. Okay, how do I do that, I could, I think you have to make something that a business will buy from you, like they would buy the asset.

So like, as a customer, you mean not like acquire it.

Because acquisition will take too long. Well, yeah, but well, what is like an immediate need. So like if someone's like, I need more customers, it's like, Hey, I built this database, there's, I think there might be some customers here.

But like if you had to use no code, you'd have to like, I don't have to use no code, you just $10,000. I would have to because I can't code. Right.

Fuck, that's hard. You can recruit someone, you can convince someone. I mean, I guess you could do real estate and try to like, Fendagle, like a contract on something, but I don't know how to do that.

I don't know how to do that. So I wouldn't be, I wouldn't.

Yes. So that's one way. So what you could do is you can find a, you could, you could go hunt for a property that is sort of distressed in some way.

You could get the right to buy it and not, you know, you put, you get it under contract without putting your money down yet. And then you can simultaneously find a buyer for that property that's because they're not marketing in the right way.

And you could basically do the buy sell on the same day without ever putting the money into the deal.

That's what I would do. I would try to design something that goes viral, right? Because for $10,000, I'm not going to be able to get distribution through any paid means.

So I need something that's going to spread virally and then net me some money at the end.

So you got to be a digital good though. It can't be, you can't be selling like deodorant.

Yeah, exactly. So, so what could go viral? That's going to be a digital thing.

You know, maybe there's a variant of the million dollar homepage type of idea that you could do. Maybe you could actually maybe you could do a physical product.

So maybe you could do a physical product that you don't, you actually don't make it. You just pre sell it.

So, so that would still fit within the bounds, but you'd have to be a viral product that would spread without you doing paid marketing.

So you could do like a Kickstarter type of project and pre sell a million bucks and use the 10 grand just to make the video of the product that you're going to make.

So I'd have to have, I'd have to come up with a product like that.

Dude, maybe this free porting thing would get that.

Okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to come into the next episode and I'm going to have my answer to this question.

I'm going to have a great answer. I'm going to have an answer that if I listen to it, I'd be like, fuck, I should get do that.

And so I'm going to make that my homework for this thing. I'm going to give myself the weekend basically to come up with my answer for it.

And I think you should do it too. And it would be such a fun experiment to do.

I haven't done it.

Well, yeah, I have admittedly an unfair advantage. Like, we did a course. And I don't know if I want to do courses ever again, but it was like wildly profitable and people loved it, but that for sure would work.

Yeah, but I think we have to do it without using the assets. I think that's the real, that's the real sort of creative test.

Because otherwise, it doesn't really apply to most people because they don't have the unfair advantage you have to begin with, which is like whatever millions of people who read your emails.

So I think you need to do it without it.

I get that. But if I were to do this, I would absolutely use that because I'm like, this works.

Okay, I'll bring you with a good idea. Okay, so you create a campaign called one million masks, and you are going to give away masks for free to people who need it to prevent coronavirus.

And you convince the brands to put their logo on it and pay for the masks. And let's say the mask is 50 cents, you charge $1 for the mask to the brand or $1.50, you pocket the dollar, and you need to get a million masks paid for by brands in the meantime to do it.

So you tap into something timely where brands are looking to put their stamp on something and be a part of them, contribute to the cause.

This is such an interesting thing.

All right, are you down to come back with your answer to this? And also, Brady, are you down?

That was my answer. That's a good one.

All right, but I'm giving you extra time. If that's the best answer you come up with, you just come back and say it again.

But if you come up with a better answer by our next recording, then you got to put it, you got to say it on air.

All right, got you.

All right, cool.

That's how this podcast can go viral, by the way. We just put our money where our mouth is.

We say, hey, we did this brainstorm thing. And by the way, for the next month, every episode is just a progress of doing that thing and reaching the million.

It's just so much work, but I'm down. I'm very interested.

Hey, there's a prize. You can make a million dollars this month.

It's not work for nothing.

Are you, do you consider yourself lazy?

Yes.

Same.

To the point of like it being a negative.

Same. I'm like, uh, so much work.

I remember I applied when I, when I moved to Silicon Valley, I was applied to the job at monkey inferno for the idea lab.

And I had made like a resume, like a website resume. I basically went all in for them.

I made a website. It was my resume. It was about them tailored to them.

And one of the sections was I made it like a video game where I was like, here's my attributes.

Like if you go and Madden or whatever it's like speed 99 this whatever 92. And so I did it for all my business attributes and work ethic was my lowest attribute.

It was like a five out of 10 or whatever it was, like, you know, 55 out of 100.

And during the interview, the guy was like, this was this whole website thing was great.

Like, but why did you say your work ethic was bad?

Like I've never seen somebody come into an interview and say, I'm not that hard of a worker.

Like I was like, yeah, I'm honest.

Like I'm not, I'm just not.

I was like, there's other people who are, but like, you know, that's not what I do.

I don't try to work the hardest.

I do try to work the smartest, but I definitely I actively try not to work the hardest.

There's this like quote where Bill Gates, he says something like, yeah, like the best hackers are super lazy.

And that's why they invent stuff.

It's because they don't want to do the same thing over and over again.

Right. Yeah, they find the quickest path to the solution.

Um, well, let's wrap it up.

Tweet at us.

Let us know what you think.

Give me your answers.

I'm coming back Monday with great answers.

All right.

See you.

And let us know what you guys think about this first segment.

I think that I'm inspired by this guy, to be honest.

I love meeting people like that.

That was inspiring to me.

Yeah, that was a good scheme.

That one almost almost pulled it off for him.

Actually, yeah.

Cool.

All right.

Thank you.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.