My First Million: #145 with Reed Duchscher - MrBeast's Manager Joins the Brainstorm

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All right.

What's up, everybody?

We got a special guest in the house, Reed Duxer, and Reed, this room is baller.

Is this your office or is this your bedroom?

Yeah, this is our office in Dallas, Texas.

I wish this was my bedroom.

Maybe I need to rethink what my bedroom looks like and add a bunch of toys and stuff.

And I see you got the painting on the wall.

I feel like I get retargeted for that ad constantly for that painting.

If I see it right, I don't know.

It's a little bit blurry.

You got the fancy blurry camera, so I'm not sure if I'm seeing it right.

Yeah, it's the Ari Golds.

I've had this thing for like seven years.

It's when Ari Gold bought, this is from Entourage for people that don't know, it's an HBO series.

When he went in and he bought a rival agency and he went in with a paintball gun and basically

fired people.

It's like an iconic episode.

He goes, Lloyd?

Yeah.

I will find you.

Dude, that was a pretty good Ari impression.

I like that.

I too grew up watching that.

Ari was one of my heroes for a while as well.

Yeah, it was weird.

I loved the show and I thought everything they did with the show was so fascinating,

but I was always into the character E, not specifically like him as his specific character,

but what he did, like his manager, like the manager role that he played.

I'm glad you said not him specifically because he was boring as fuck.

Yeah, yeah, boring character, but his job, like I was like, his job seems to be so interesting

because it's like management isn't necessarily just about managing a client.

It's about access and the access that comes along with managing a client like Vincent

Chase where it's like, when you're his manager, you're kind of open to all this stuff that

exists, right?

Whether it's talking to different actors, actresses, musicians, like deals that come

through.

That's what fascinated me about it.

And so that's a pretty good segue.

So why don't you tell people what you do?

Yeah.

So I run a company called Night Media.

I formed it in 2015, was an NFL sports agent working with some cool guys that people probably

know, like Barry Sanders, Marcus Allen, Tim Brown, and I did client services for them

within a sports agency.

And I met a YouTube group named Dude Perfect in 2015.

And that really started my career as a digital talent manager.

And now fast forward to where we are in 2021.

We currently manage people like MrBeast, who I'm sure if you're logged on to YouTube,

you probably see his videos on trending and we work with ZHC and a few others.

And what we specialize in is we say gaming, lifestyle, technology and entertainment is

really where we like to focus at Night Media.

So how does the economics of that work?

I mean, do you have employees or is a manager just your one man show?

What's that look like?

It used to be a one man show.

It's got a little bit more complicated as the years have went on.

So we have quite a few people internally at Night Media.

And we also, you know, I think about talent management a little differently than most

people do.

And I think about it and like, what's a new age talent management company look like

and how do you serve as creators?

And so for us, like the management bucket is one that becomes important.

And so we have a lot of internal talent managers that work with clients.

We also have an organization, more of like an incubation studio for owned and operated

companies like MrBeastburger that people have saw in the news recently and a few other companies

that will launch with creators.

So we also play the business partner role and then we also have like a venture side

of this business where we invest in emerging software and studios and companies that we

find interesting.

And so to me, that's kind of like the three pillars that like a new age talent management

firm or digital talent management firm should have.

And are you used to invest, are you using your own cash flows or using your clients

money?

A little bit of both.

It started out as like us investing off the balance sheet of like, yeah, we think this

company is cool.

We think this studio is awesome.

We'd pull some clients in.

The most recent one we did or announced was Backbone.

We did it 18 months ago.

For those of you who don't know, it's like a mobile controller, but it also has a lot

of software to basically turn your phone into a switch.

And so MrBeast invested personally, pressed in like a bunch of our clients invested personally

and it's just kind of got us thinking of like, okay, maybe we should actually operationalize

this and have LPs come into a specific fund within night media.

And so that's now how we operate it.

Are you the sole owner of this business?

No, there's multiple owners.

We obviously have, you know, people that have equity and we've had investors along the way.

And so it's been quite a ride.

I was the sole owner up until 20, 2018.

When you're a football agent and you sound like a pretty legit football player clients,

and then you're like, oh, this YouTube group Dude Perfect, and like Sam, I feel like you're

the target demo for Dude Perfect.

You like Dude Perfect.

I love Dude Perfect.

Of course I know what they are.

Of course.

And so you, you're like, oh, you know what?

It's not about Barry Sanders anymore.

It's about, you know, I don't know what the hell the guys' names are, but Dude Perfect

dudes on YouTube.

I'm going to like take this leap of faith.

What was the like kind of reaction where people like, oh yeah, that makes sense.

Or was it like, what the hell are you thinking?

It was what the hell are you thinking 100%?

I had worked so hard to get into the sports agency world and, you know, I'd watched Jerry

McGuire probably 37 times as a kid growing up and, you know, I wanted to be a sports

agent.

I played college football.

I had friends that are now playing in the NFL and it was like just the easy segue of

like, yo, I should represent them when, when they turn pro.

And so everything I did for like three to four years was like, how do I get in with a

bigger sports agency?

And so I remember having the conversation when I wanted to leave the sports agency and I

was going to go, you know, help this YouTube group that at the time had probably two and

a half million subscribers.

People thought I was nuts.

They're like, this isn't a legitimate business.

How are they going to make money?

How do YouTubers make money?

Like it was just, it was all so new in 2015.

And it seems weird to say that because YouTube was founded in 2007 or 2009, some of the two.

Also there's a lot of YouTubers at that time that were actually doing incredibly well.

It just wasn't known.

And so in 2015, when I made that jump to start working with Dude Perfect, it's like people

just thought I lost my mind.

Can you actually go through and answer that question for us?

I mean, I don't know anything about show, I know close to nothing about show business.

I know a lot about technology, a lot about software, a lot about media.

But when it comes to managing YouTubers, how does that business model work?

I mean, I'm one of those people that would say, how does it make money?

Let's do it this way.

I'm going to throw out a straw man.

I'm going to explain what I think, how I think it works because of what I've seen from the

outside and you say, yeah, you kind of got it, but these parts were wrong, right?

Okay.

That's what I've seen and this is more in the Twitch streamer world than YouTubers.

So Guy sits at his desk every day, makes videos, starts to get famous.

At some point, they're like buddy slash girlfriend slash boyfriend, whoever is like, oh, okay,

I'm your manager now.

And that's like manager one that they have.

And then that person's like, okay, here's what I'm going to do as your manager.

I'm going to read your email and like, I'll actually respond to some of these.

And it's almost all inbound initially.

And they basically read the inbox, they reply to stuff and then like, oh, these guys want

to give you a bunch of money to do this shout out.

Okay.

They act as kind of the agency where they're like, all right, pick a number out of thin

air type of thing.

I get 10% because I'm your manager.

So like, I think a cut is like 10%, 15%, something like that.

You tell me if I'm wrong.

And then the talent does the thing and like that client is like, you know, somewhat happy

because they like half read the brief and then you move on to the next one.

And then like some of guys like you that are pretty forward thinking start to realize,

holy shit, we can do a lot more with this influence.

And that's where you get the venture arm.

And that's where you get Mr. Beasburger and you get a bunch of other stuff.

But let's just talk the typical and not your case because I just want to explain to people

the typical talent manager first.

Was that right or wrong?

It's a good point.

Mine's completely different.

And I think what you just explained is what currently happens still to this day.

I see a lot of it moms, best friends, uncles, and it's really like, you know, someone starts

going, you know, from safe a thousand views to a hundred K views.

The question is like, what's next?

Like I'm getting attention.

There's people reaching out like, how much do I charge for this?

Do I sell merchandise because all these companies are reaching out and it's just someone to

help them navigate that.

And I still think that even the talent management space for digital creators is really under

saturated.

There's not a lot of management companies that I think and not necessarily think about

it like us, but are just like there to service creators and like have their best intentions

in mind.

There's still not a lot.

So because of that, like it falls on friends and parents and, you know, like I said, uncles

and it's not a bad thing.

It's just as the space matures, like that's just, you know, progression.

What's the difference then between what Sean described and how you guys are doing it now?

So we really view creators more like entrepreneurs and media businesses.

I think the brand deal thing, the filming creators is all or filming videos is all great,

but we see a much bigger opportunity with creators actually owning and operating their

own sustainable businesses outside of just the normal filming YouTube videos and maybe

sell a honey at or like a dollar shape club at.

You saw some of that with Mr. Beesberger will announce a few more products coming up mid

this year with a few other creators that we think fit.

And so to me, like when you think about these businesses, it's less of like, Hey, this is

just a single YouTube channel.

It's more of like, what are the pillars that, you know, a typical media company like Viacom

would build?

Or like if we were to think about SpongeBob, what are SpongeBob's other like tentacles as

an IP and where are they all making money?

Like that's how creators should start thinking about these businesses.

For us, like we kind of view ourselves as more of like an outsourced COO.

We're less of like a manager because we play the manager hat, but there's so many other

things that we have to do now to service digital creators like operational plans.

How much money should you be spending?

Is it time to hire seven employees this month?

Those are like all things that kind of hit our desk as management companies evolve.

These are the things they're going to have to think about is like, how do we service

this like new age digital creator?

Because we've been doing actors and actresses for a long time and we understand that.

But like these people need help.

They need to hire people.

They need to scale businesses.

They need to build out consumer products.

And so we just think about it a little bit differently than most people are.

And then how many clients do you have?

Currently I believe we have 17.

And do they pay you a flat fee?

I mean, because you're describing so many different things.

How do you track what fee is yours and what isn't?

I imagine you just get some type of percentage.

If let's say Dollar Shave Club comes to you and you say, all right, well, these four people

might fit for you.

Hey, four people, you guys want to do this?

All right, they do.

You get your little cut or your big cut.

Who knows what it is?

But then you're talking about all these other deals, figuring out who is owed what seems

a little challenging and like that split seems hard, right?

Yeah, it's, I mean, we've operationalized it pretty well.

And yes, we receive a cut on everything our clients do, but we also start businesses with

them.

So it's like, what are those joint ventures?

Like what are we doing in these joint ventures?

Are we hiring the management team?

So there's like, there's two different sides of this, right?

Like there's the management side and then there's like this owned and operated side.

We're playing both.

That's kind of how night media is built right now.

And yeah, the managers, like same with the agents, they receive a percentage of income.

One question real quick.

So our audience may not know Mr. Beast in the same way that like kind of the general population

knows Mr. Beast because he's pretty popular.

But the TLDR, I would say is he, he got famous by giving away stuff and kind of filming the

reaction.

He would do these stunts where he'd be like, oh, I'd go to a restaurant and I'll leave

a $4,000 tip on a $9 like bill.

And then he would film the reaction of the person kind of from afar, like secret camera

type of thing.

And those videos were awesome to watch.

And then he would do things like, you know, buy a Lamborghini and then invite four friends

over and be like, put your hand on this Lamborghini.

And then the last person with their hand on this Lamborghini gets to keep it.

And then he would film like a two-part series of that or whatever.

So first, is that a fair characterization or am I like dumbing it down too much?

Yeah, you hit on some of our most popular videos.

I think what Jimmy focuses on is like virality is how do I get as many people to click on

this video as possible on YouTube and, and thus like YouTube works in two senses.

It's like get high click through rate, get high average view duration, video does well.

And so those are the things he's focused on and, and like crazy ideas that nobody could

probably think about.

Like we did a two-part series, three-part series about giving away an island, you know,

like, how do you buy an island?

Okay.

Now that we acquired the island, let's go like do the survivor series to give it away.

Those are the things that we're trying to figure out early on before he's Mr. Beast

with 50 million subscribers or whatever.

How did he bootstrap this?

So, you know, where did the $1,000 tip come from?

And how did he jump from the $1,000 tip to the 10,000 to the 50,000?

So I know he had like, I forgot quid or whatever, whatever it was that was sponsoring him.

Were they just footing the whole bill and he had enough views to offset it?

Or like, can you just talk through that bootstrapping phase of how he got there?

Yeah.

So I met him around, I think he had like 1.9 million subscribers when I met him.

And at the time he wasn't really making any money.

He was focusing on doing these like weird challenges, watching it's everyday bro for

24 hours, et cetera.

And so quid, which is a, I think it's still around.

It's like a sticker, digital sticker app, right, where you collect stickers.

And basically we're trying to sponsor Jimmy and he had this idea about giving money to

a homeless person.

It was like, I want to give like $10,000 to a homeless person.

And the conversation was basically like, give us $10,000, we're going to give it all away.

The video is going to do well.

And then the ad sense is just all upside for me.

And so that's really how the company was bootstrapped in the beginning is like, we're making all

this sponsorship money, we're giving it all away to create bigger and bigger videos.

And then the next video was honey, after a few quid videos and such, like honey came

in and they gave us money to donate to Ninja's Twitch stream.

So Ninja was doing a St. Jude's Twitch stream and this was right as Ninja was like taking

off.

I mean, he did this St. Jude's stream on Twitch and we filmed a video around donating.

I think it was $40,000 to Ninja and that video exploded.

And we basically gave away all the money, the sponsorship money for that video.

And then we just kept, as the videos continue to get better, the sponsorships continue

to become more and more and more.

And the videos just now have gotten to the point where we're giving away an island.

Sean, have you heard of Ithaca Holdings?

It's Scooter Braun's thing.

I know about Scooter Braun.

I had never heard that name though, Ithaca.

It's pretty interesting.

Basically, the crux of it is like the same thing.

I mean, would you say that you guys are inspired by how he's building, how he has built his

business?

Oh, how he built Ithaca.

Yeah.

I think a night media acts as like a holding company for a lot of other subsidiaries and

businesses that we do.

I think from a business structure standpoint, very similar.

He did it in music with Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande.

And we're just kind of playing it in the digital creator landscape.

So basically, Sean, I mean, I only read articles about it, but Ithaca Holdings was like the

holding company for the agency that Justin Bieber, I guess, was the cash cow.

But then he got Ariana Grande.

Then eventually he started making some Lyft and Uber investments.

Then eventually he raised some money from Carlisle and he bought Taylor Swift's catalog.

It's like a miniature conglomerate, which is exactly what it sounds like read you're

trying to do.

And it sounds fun.

It's the same model Troy Carter did with Lady Gaga and then Adam Factory.

Yeah.

Adam Factory, exactly.

Yeah.

I know about all these.

I've taken a lot of inspiration from each one and I just thought it was a matter of time

before someone built this around the creator community.

It seems interesting from the outside because you're able to have your hands in a lot of

different projects and your days different all the time.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Completely different from day to day.

But what is like the cash cow?

What's like the one stream that keeps us all alive, just the boring normal management?

Yeah.

And it's the same with Ithaca.

I think it's the same with what Adam Factory was like the management company is the core

of the business that keeps the lights on and everything else is just kind of upside.

It's like you're playing upside in different businesses and different venture investments

and things like that.

And so that's how our business is built.

But what we also understand the management company is what keeps the lights on.

And so for us, like it is one of our core focuses and will be for the foreseeable future.

Well, if you need help raising your rolling fund, there we go.

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I feel like this is the new model.

I was looking at this for, I forgot, I was talking to somebody who, biology, he has this

phrase that he calls his personal media companies, PMCs.

And he's like, PMCs are going to replace or just sort of swarm traditional media companies

because you can have the Joe Rogans and you can have the Tim Ferriss and you can have the

Mr. Beast and you can have all these different people just be personal media companies where

they generate content, content goes viral, gets them audience, audience becomes loyal.

And then you layer on top of that like either like money from sponsors and audience.

And then you basically say, cool, now that I'm like a unique property, I can now do partnerships

other people can't do.

I can launch businesses.

I can get into investments that other people can't get into because I have this unique

media front that are traditional, let's say, let's just say you're trying to invest in

startups.

There's a reason Troy Carter can get into Lyft or Uber or both or whichever one he invested

in early on because he's like, oh yeah, you know, you should take my check because like

my check is kind of like Lady Gaga's check and you know, these other three people.

So he's going to get into all those deals, all the VCs want to be his buddy because that's

their way to be like, oh yeah, I know Lady Gaga's manager.

So he's going to get to like, you know, skim the top.

And so the same thing happens with athletes and others, but I feel like not everybody

has caught on to like how big that can be and how the old wave like didn't monetize

it fully.

Right.

I'll give you an example.

Tim Ferriss, he's buddy of yours, Sam, right?

And he was like big Bre Twitter, right?

Like so he didn't, he built this audience kind of on the blog when blogging was like the

big way to build your audience.

And he built this huge audience.

And then he was like, all right, the way I'm going to translate this into money is basically

like books.

And he wrote a bunch of books and he sold a bunch of books with books or like a slow

and pretty crappy way to make money.

And then he's like, okay, what about this podcasting thing?

And then the podcast became the moneymaker and books became like the footnote.

And then because he was Tim Ferriss, he got into the Uber like kind of seed round.

And then that was the way to make all the money.

And like podcast was just like a cost of doing business, just another way to build your name.

And I feel like he didn't even touch 10 of the things that the guys who are doing it

now do.

Like he did no courses.

Like imagine if he had done the four hour work week course, how much are you going to

have been making millions and millions of dollars way more than he made off his books, whether

it's courses or merch or actually raising a fund because he just kind of, you know, wrote

his own personal money into a few angel investments.

And that was kind of it.

I just feel like there's a lot more and guys like Reed and Mr. Beast are kind of like showing

what the fully evolved business looks like for a personal media company.

Yeah.

I mean, hopefully down the road, like five years from now, people will look at like what

Jimmy has built and be like, that's the blueprint for what a creator business should look like.

All those pieces of that company.

Right.

And so that's kind of how we think about it in virtual dining is a new one for us.

Like launching Mr. Peaceburger is like, we really didn't know how it was going to go.

Like there's still some unknowns, but I mean, just the sheer volume of sales and just how

many people have loved the brand and the launch.

Like that might become a pillar for creators five years from now, instead of like merchandise

and hoodies, they might be like, yo, what's your virtual dining?

Like what are you doing for virtual dining?

We'll see.

Can you reveal what the sales were?

We'll probably come out with the full sales numbers at the end of 2021, just to let people

know.

Here's what I want to know.

I put out a Twitter thread with some guesses.

I don't know if you saw that, but I put out some guesses.

But the big kind of like, I don't know, not criticism or critique, but the big like open

question is like, cool, you, it's definitely a dope marketing stunt, right?

Cause it's like, boom, I have my own restaurant chain in 300 cities overnight, you know, surprise,

surprise, and a cool bunch of people who go and they order because they want to try it

out.

There's like a novelty.

And so the question is like, even if it was just a marketing stunt, that'd be awesome.

But you know, six months from now, am I really going to open up the app and order Mr. Beastburger

or am I going to order like McDonald's or this, you know, some established thing that

like I know about, I've been eating for years and like, have you guys seen the sales dip

basically after that first week of hype?

Look at his smile.

He's got a kind of a shit eating grin right now.

He won't tell me that the sales have crashed, but I'm trying to ask him if the sales crashed

after that.

Just go on Twitter.

Like every day I get tagged in hundreds of tweets of people still ordering and I can

see all the numbers and it definitely has not slowed down.

I think over the next few months, you'll see like we have a lot planned with this brand.

We have a lot of collaborations with this brand.

Like it'll be, you know, we think of this as like a sustainable virtual concept, whether

we do brick and mortar in the future is a conversation we're talking about, but we would

have never launched the business had we just thought it was like a marketing stunt that

would work for a couple of weeks.

Like there's a lot of conversations about sustainability of brand new menu items, quality

control, like all these things are continually talked about every day.

And we're actually hiring people within that company.

So in two years, we have goals for where we think this is going to be.

What's that goal?

We want to be around 2,500, 2,000 to 2,500 virtual locations.

We want to have a few interesting brick and mortar locations.

I mean, for us, it's like, are we going to be able to compete with five guys, right?

It's kind of like where we're looking at right now.

Yeah.

He said he wants to own in and out when this is all said and done.

That's what he's trying to say.

I like in and out too much to want to own that business.

They just need to keep doing what they're doing.

You said earlier that in 2015, you left sports to do this and people were kind of laughing

at you and being like, what are you crazy?

What is around in your industry now that you're thinking, this is kind of interesting.

It seems a little nutty right now, but I think this might have legs.

Is there anything that stands out that is, that may be not a lot of other people see?

I sent out a tweet yesterday about this and I think this is something to keep an eye on

as the NCAA actually lets student athletes and I was a student athlete and we couldn't

make money off our likeness because of amateurism and the NAIA has now lifted that and we've

seen student athletes in the NAIA start posting on TikTok, start making money off YouTube.

I think it's just a matter of time before the floodgates open and like call it like

division one college football players that like Florida state are going to make this

content house.

They're playing on national TV every Saturday.

Now they have this content house that they're like playing video games in, they're posting

on TikTok.

I think the crazy thing is like, you're going to have like these girls that play like basketball

or volleyball or whatever now they have an only fans and they have a TikTok and there's

like, I think the interesting thing to look out for in the next two to three years is

this becomes and I don't know where the NCAA is at with it.

I do know that like athletes, student athletes are going to start taking advantage of this

image and likeness situation and they're going to start benefiting, finally benefiting off

it.

And I think it's going to be a lot of content houses.

I think it's going to be a lot of like, well, it's like they're already living together.

I lived with five football players and it probably wouldn't have been great content,

at least like it would probably been more milk than anything, but I do think that they'll

grow interesting businesses around like gaming, like, Hey, we all play video games, like let's

just have a gaming channel and let's make money off it.

And that's going to become so big, the question is going to be, Hey, do we continue playing

football or do we go all in on this content thing because it's actually a big business?

That's going to be the interesting stuff that we're going to see in the next few years is

like football or content creation or basketball or content creation.

I had a friend who's a VC basically like schedule a call.

He was like, Hey, I have an idea.

I'll fund you.

If you quit your job right now and you go do this and he was telling me about this exact

same thing, he was like, well, the ruling has just changed.

California now says that athletes can monetize their, their name and likeness.

It's going to inevitably roll into other states.

This was pre COVID.

So it was like, at this time it seemed like sports were going to keep happening in a normal

way.

And he's like, somebody's going to have to build.

So this is on the software side.

So I think what you're talking about is like, from an athlete's perspective, making a content

house from a, maybe talent management perspective, this is where you can jump in early on a

stock that's going to rise and build your name in that category.

But then the other one is basically building the angel list for college athletes to monetize

on this.

So basically building the software stack that's going to say, okay, here's a bunch of

athletes, here's a bunch of brands, and here's a bunch of universities.

And those three all need to talk about all this like monetization is going to happen

because there are going to be rules where you're going to have to report, you know,

the local caller dealer paid you X dollars to do this thing.

That's how they're going to avoid like kind of bribery to come to the school.

You're going to have to do it all above board.

And he's like, all that paperwork and all that like documentation and all that sort

of like record keeping, somebody can build the platform that does that for college athletes

because this is now inevitable.

And I thought that was a pretty interesting idea.

Do you think that, I mean, say someone has a Patreon, right, and they're playing college

basketball, do you think they're going to have to report those Patreon numbers and subscribers

to the administration?

Yep.

They're going to have to figure it out.

There's going to be a bunch of like, it's sort of like with sports betting, as I wait,

how do you make the players not just throw, you know, a random preseason game because

of whatever.

And so I think that there's going to have to be kind of like a very clear set of rules

that you're probably going to see a few people get slapped on the wrist for, for not, for

not following because this opens up like the whole, you know, booster thing to a whole

new level.

And I don't think they're going to be able to control it.

We have a lot of people on here who have mostly internet companies.

So software or mobile games, ad networks, all types of strange stuff.

You have an agency, which a lot of people in our audience, they all want to start different

types of agencies.

And then a lot of people who have agencies, they say, oh, shit, I freaking hate agencies.

I hate client services, and then also like on the software side, they're like, oh my

gosh, this is taking forever to grow.

And like it's hard to pay myself a lot of money unless I sell the company.

Where do you fall in that, that, that scale and that grass is always greener type of side

because like, are you wishing that you had more recurring revenue or do you like the

setup that you have?

I mean, I want to know like what your sentiment is towards the agency business.

Yeah.

Towards any service business.

I mean, it's always a grind, right?

Like recurring revenue is tough.

I think for me, like I never saw building an agency like that though.

I saw it as an access point to everything else, whether we're investing in software

or doing this like mobile app or Jimmy, like, I think if you're, I mean, Gary V's talks

about this a lot too is like, VaynerMedia is a service business.

He's like, I wouldn't tell anyone to build this business like of service, like 250 employees,

like break even business.

He's like, the reason I built Vayner is like the access to everything else and the access

to these brands and being able to do different things with personalities and who we work

with.

That's the same thing that I'm doing is it's an access point.

I wouldn't want to do it any other way because I get access to everything, whether that's

investments, other, you know, people like Elon invested in team trees with Jimmy.

Like that was an amazing day for him to have like one of his mentors put a million dollars

into team trees.

It's like that kind of stuff is like why you want to be in this business, right?

If you're just building an agency and seeing it as a service business, like you just need

to understand it's going to be a grind and weeks are going to be incredibly stressful.

It's just, I don't look at the business like that.

And I enjoy what I do every single day.

I love YouTube.

I'm obsessed with it.

I'm on it every single day.

To me, like money's great, but when you have enough money to pay your bills and everything's

fine, like it's all about enjoying life, right?

Enjoying what you do for a living.

And so that's kind of how I look at it.

It's like Jimmy and I take advantage of a lot of things that come with this business,

but we enjoy every minute of it.

What's been the greatest, the greatest perk and the greatest thing that has ever happened

one time, like here's a small one, one time Lance Armstrong came on our podcast.

I'm a huge Lance Armstrong fan and it's like one of the very few times I would ever have

had the ability to hang out with him.

What about you?

There's a lot.

I think there's so many creators that I've looked up to before I started this business

that I've got to meet and speak with about their content strategy and about their business.

I don't want to like name any specific ones, but I've gotten to speak with a lot of YouTubers

and now a lot of athletes reach out to me because they want to play with typical gamer.

They want to like be on MrBeast's YouTube channel.

So it all kind of came full circle of like people thinking I was dumb for leaving the

sports agency world because being in traditional sports is like the pinnacle.

And now it's like all these athletes are like, wait, what all these YouTubers and content

creators are doing is awesome.

How do we get involved in that?

And so it's for me, that's probably been one of the most rewarding things is like seeing

it kind of come back around where people are calling me crazy for leaving that job in traditional

sports to now seeing a lot of what people are doing in traditional sports kind of come

over into this digital media sector and all these athletes wanting to play video games

with our clients.

You said you listened to a few episodes of the pod and you came with a few zany ideas

at least.

I say we jump into it.

I think when we release this, what we should do is we should move the ideas to the front

because for us, it's cool because we're just nerd not want to get to know you and it's

much easier to have a brainstorm when you like have known the person for more than five

seconds.

But I think it would be, I think we should shift into ideas and hear kind of what's interesting

to you.

What are some half baked ideas that you've had or opportunities you see in the market

and then we can riff off those if you have any handy.

I really wanted to talk to you guys about and let's just start with one.

So this is one thing that I think is interesting and I wanted to stay in the creator space

for this one is consumer products.

And so you guys have probably seen a lot of consumer products with different creators

and it's a good thing I wanted to ask you guys about is like, what do you think like

creators are doing wrong in this space because we've seen a lot of them launch consumer products.

And I think that they think that just because I have an audience, this is going to be successful.

I think we've seen a lot of consumer products go great for a second month gone tomorrow.

And so it's one thing I kind of want to talk about with you guys is like, what do you think

creators are specifically missing about running a consumer package goods business aside from

just like, I need to grow an audience.

I got two ideas there.

So and by the way, Sam, what was the name of the wrap snacks?

We had a funny ass episode read, you know, wrap snacks.

I haven't.

Now I need to look wrap snacks.

Sam, tell them about wrap snacks.

It's hilarious.

I think little Romeo came out with it.

It's like little Romeo flavored Cheetos or it's soja boy, Chris or master P this or

flavor flavor.

They just took all the famous chips like a cheeto, a Dorito or whatever.

And they just read, you know, we have their rebranded version of it.

And then they have like, you know, Cardi B, whatever, I don't know who they actually

have, but they kind of have all the stars like the Cardi B one's the best.

It's like a Cardi B red hot cheddar potato chip.

And so Sam's like this funny kind of like country ghetto kid somehow.

And so he like in somehow in Missouri was eating wrap snacks or something like that.

So I thought this was a hilarious brand.

I'll give you, I'll give you two things.

I think they're doing wrong.

Creators are doing wrong.

If I was day media and I was trying to work with some creators and help them grow their

business.

Here's what I would do on the consumer product side.

I think the first change would be on the business model.

I would be acquiring and not partnering or licensing brands.

So there are a ton of companies that are out there that have hit some mid level of success.

They're doing five million a year in revenue.

They're doing 10 million a year in revenue.

Both has kind of slowed.

They kind of don't know where to go.

The operator has been doing this for five to seven years and they're kind of tired.

And they've done all the hard work of like the product is now like made and has had like

10 iterations.

The supply chain works.

They even have some distribution.

The website has built all that good stuff.

And I think, you know, one of our buddies who comes on the pod a bunch is guy Andrew

Wilkinson and he's basically built like a, you know, like a billion dollar empire just

buying businesses rather than starting them.

And so like, I think in Silicon Valley, we have this huge bias to start it.

Oh, you got to be the hero who comes up with a genius idea.

I think Andrew really shatters that when he's like, what are you talking about?

There's just like tons of, if you're a good operator or you're a great operator, like

just go buy a good business at a fair price and just own it and grow it over time.

You don't need to like keep thinking of genius ideas from scratch because that's hard and

it's low probability of success.

So I think on Silicon Valley, we worship starting from scratch too much.

And I think in the kind of like celebrity world, there's a business model that everybody's

used to, which is just like kind of like license your IP, license your, your face and your

name and your likeness, do a partnership, get a rev share, get a profit share, maybe

get an equity stake in the company, but not a majority stake.

And I think it's much easier to go buy these brands.

I would go buy like, we've joked about Tootsie Roll, but like, I don't know, like Red Hots

candy and go buy some old candy brand.

So I would go get private equity money, I'd buy a candy brand.

I would own, you know, 60, 70% of it, let the investors put up the money on the other

30% and then I would go get, you know, a great operator from another candy brand and be like,

you're going to run this, but now we're the distribution.

We're going to basically refresh this brand and bring it to the mainstream, make it, bring

it mainstream again, and we're going to own these assets.

And I would basically go into all the categories that print money.

So it's like soda, bottled water, candy, chips, like, you know, like all these product categories

that ideally fit with your brand, but really like, it's just a category with super high

margins, high repeat purchase and like high, like, you know, like stickiness amongst the,

amongst consumers.

And so I would say that would be my first changes.

I would just go be taking majority stakes in brands, maybe even old brands that have kind

of lost their luster and rebranding them kind of with the, with the fame that creators

have.

Where does that land with your read?

What is it?

Yeah.

I mean, trust me, we've looked at all kinds of stuff.

I think, you know, for us, like, it'll be interesting to see like what the mix is over

the next few years of like owned and operated versus like just acquiring a, like what'd

you say?

Tootsie Roll was the one you gave?

Yeah.

Tootsie Roll or Red Hot?

You know, like, what is it?

Tootsie Roll is interesting.

It's family owned and the CEO is like 98, this 98 year old woman.

She died.

Remember when we looked it up?

She actually is.

Oh yeah.

Did she just die?

But the other one was Warheads.

Like go buy Warheads or like, you know.

Or Pong.

Pong.

Yeah.

Pogs or you know, like whatever, like go buy some brand that like has that nostalgia

factor for some people and we'll get new, we get a bunch of earned media for doing it.

But you're going to be able to get it for pennies on the dollar because it's kind of

lost its way and leverage your distribution and leverage your fame to like bring it back

to the mainstream.

Yeah.

It's frustrating to us that, especially the candy companies, they just will not lean

in to this space.

I don't know if it's just because they're a little too old school, they've made money

doing the same thing for 50 years.

We've spoken to almost all of them and they're just not open to doing like anything outside

of the box with any of our creators.

That's I think the point that they're missing is like, if you figure out how to leverage

this creator community in a way that's authentic and not super cringy and coming off as overly

branded, there's a massive win.

And so it's like, someone needs to come into this space and understand that.

And I just haven't seen it from the candy companies yet.

So here's the other thing I would do.

So, and I'm just thinking of this off the top of my head.

So feel free to be like, yeah, that's a dipshit idea because of, because I've actually thought

this through.

So the first exercise I would go through is I would sit down and I would write, who's

got all the money?

Who the fuck has all the money?

And all the money basically, if you look at where is money made?

Money is made in like a few types of business models and a few industries.

So for example, a lot of money is made in investing or financial management, right?

And I would think about like, okay, is there a world where either, you know, like, what

are all the different variations of that?

Okay, we have our own VC fund.

That's one way to do it.

The other is that we create kind of like a multi GP system where we get 10 of the largest

YouTube creators in the world and we create, you know, our own fund that way.

Another is like, we create our own version of Robinhood and we use our distribution to

like, we basically sponsor our own videos because we see how much money is made if you

were the default app for a Gen Z and millennial person who wants to invest their money or

acorns or whatever, right?

So I would try to figure out who's got the money and then how do we be them?

I thought about this for platforms like YouTube and Twitch.

If you look at, let's take Twitch for example, and I won't give away any inside data.

This is what I was thinking before we got acquired by them.

I was looking at it and I was like, well, a lot of these networks that look really big

and have a lot of users are very, very top heavy.

The top kind of 1% of creators are getting X% of the audience.

I won't give the exact percent, but it's like a very significant percentage of the audience.

The platforms are worth billions of dollars and the top creators are worth, let's call

it single digit millions.

Maybe now double, you know, like now they've broken to eight figures, like one or two creators

will break into eight figures.

And so isn't that weird that the creators, which is who the audience shows up for, don't

have any equity stake in the platforms, YouTube or Twitch, the platform is worth, you know,

100X what even the top creator makes.

This is kind of like a union thing, but like if the creators actually were able to get

together and they were actually able to spin off and build their own platform, it would

be extremely risky, but it would have extremely high rewards if they were able to do it.

And I kind of did the envelope math of how many creators you would need to buy in in

order for this to hit a tipping point where it would actually work.

And it's a smaller number than you'd think.

It's enough people that you can get together in one room, one hotel ballroom and kind of

walk everybody through how this would work if we all agree.

So I think there's some big plays like that.

If you just looked at, what are the like most valuable businesses to own?

It's marketplaces, platforms, it's financial services.

And it's like, let's say consumer packaged goods that have high margins like soda and

high repeat purchase.

Right.

And I would just try to figure out how to go own the companies that do those.

One a good example is, Reed, have you seen, do you know who Doug Damoro is?

I don't.

A YouTuber.

He's got two million subs, maybe.

He's like legitimately a nerd and they make fun of him for it in a funny way.

And he just started a car marketplace called cars and bids.

And I've been following this since he launched maybe eight months ago and the traffic is

crazy.

And he owns it.

I don't know how many employees, if any, but he's been, had been building it for months

and months.

Do you see what I'm talking about?

Yeah, I'm looking at it right now.

The marketplace for cars is a very valuable business if it works, right?

If it works.

Yeah.

And I forget what the category is called, but I know how to describe it.

It's like cool cars that car enthusiasts love from the 80s, 90s and recent.

Like some people love station wagons or a woody Jeep or something like that.

It's sick and I've seen the traffic grow like crazy.

Here's two other examples that are in that vein.

So you have a bunch of like kind of toys slash collectibles slash cool novelty items behind

you.

Right now there is a race in the tech world to build the platform that's going to be

like kind of take the collectibles part of eBay and like unbundle it, like just do it

as a focused app.

Sort of the way that StockX and Goat did it with sneakers.

Everybody's trying to do it now with Pokemon cards and sports cards, right?

And they probably approach you as like be an investor or like that sort of thing.

But that's the kind of business that is, I think you would want to be in that business

because I think the audience would resonate with the audience.

You could do basically like free customer acquisition through a bunch of partners.

And instead of taking like, let's say you would become a seed investor in these companies,

you're owning 1% or less of the company.

I think you could build the, you know, why let whatnot or Rally Road or Otis or these

different platforms?

Why let them win?

I would basically be in that business, I think if I was, if I was highly ambitious

and had infinite time, which is of course, that's one of the constraints is you don't

have infinite time.

Yeah.

One space that we've been looking at a lot is like the Neobank space, which I think is

incredibly interesting because creators with like the banking Neobank like chimes

of the world, we've seen like what a bank is valued at with like 1 to 2 million users

and it's incredibly high.

So it's like, if you can get creators that have that specific audience, like probably

a little like over 18, like a little bit higher spending power, it becomes incredibly valuable

to those banks.

It's also, but it's, I mean, we've been looking at this for months.

It's also incredibly daunting to build your own bank.

That's like the give or take is like small percentage of equity in a bank that is probably

past failure.

And I think a few of them now are kind of past failure.

They're going to work.

It's just, what are they going to exit for?

Do you bet on one that's like probably raised a small seed where you can get more of an

upside, but it's not past that failure threshold yet.

So it's like kind of flipping a coin, or do you do it yourself and potentially take the

biggest risk and have to like actually put up some money?

We got pitched something like that, Sean, didn't we?

Like a creator's credit card?

Yeah.

There's a creator credit card version of this, but the bank when he's right is better.

Banks you're absolutely right.

There was one I saw recently had about 2 million accounts with deposits in it.

And I think they were selling, I think the deal's gone through so I can probably talk

about it now, but it was selling for basically like 8 to 10 million dollars.

And wait, 8 to 10 billion or million?

Million.

That's low because that's the fire.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

You set a bank with a million users sold for $8 million?

Exactly, because this is the fire sale price.

So they basically realized, look, we can't win this Neobank game.

Like they couldn't get their follow on B round investing and, sorry, their B round of investment.

They built all the technology and they had a million accounts, but they weren't going

to get to like 5 million, 10 million.

They weren't keeping pace with Chime and some of the others that were out there.

And so, you know, their problem, their bottleneck had become growth and distribution.

And so, you know, what was- Which bank is this?

I can't say the name.

But basically, I had never actually heard of them before this.

And it's like, oh, this is a challenger bank in the U.S., like I've never heard of this

even.

When they were trying to pitch their price, they're like, look, this is a fraction of

what this is really worth.

Like, if you go look at the valuations of these, this is the dollar per savings account that

most challenger banks or most neobanks should be valued at.

And so, I just thought, man, at this fire sale price, somebody should buy this.

But even at the time, I was thinking, well, you're just going to end up in the same problem

they are where it's really hard to grow.

It's really expensive to do paid acquisition for this.

And that's why for you guys, it would be a totally different game because you wouldn't

be doing paid acquisition through Facebook and Instagram ads as the like, you know,

I'm paying $150 in ads to get one customer and then I have their savings account, which

is not that lucrative.

You have to then build all these other financial services on top.

And so, if you had a way to get a bunch of free distribution, which businesses could

you go buy that are kind of stuck somewhere?

That would be, I think, a really interesting exercise.

Unfortunately, what gets you here won't get you there, meaning the things you have to

be great at to be a great content creator that really knows their audience and goes

viral and is great with the community and is great with brands, like, that doesn't necessarily

make you a great, like, you know, private equity person who knows how to go assess businesses

and buy them out and restructure them and go operate them.

And so that's the big challenge is can you do both?

Yeah.

And finding the team or the hiring, the management team to then go operate that business that

you bought, right?

That's kind of like a, how are you guys doing that?

How are you finding your people for this most recent, the burger thing and your other, how

are you finding your managers?

Yeah.

So each of them is a little different.

So for the burger situation, we partnered with Earl Enterprises.

It's the company behind the Hard Rock Casino and the Planet Hollywood.

And so an old school restaurant, uh, ownership company.

And so that was one, uh, special case where we were like, let's go find someone to handle

the back office operations that understands this world.

In other situations, uh, we actually have a team internally that's just interviewing

potential executives.

Like it depends on the business that we're launching.

Um, and Ezra, our president, Ezra Cooperstein does, does a lot of that, like, uh, vetting.

He was the, he founded Makers Studios and then he was one of the co-founded Makers Studios

and co-founded Fullscreen.

Uh, so he's been in the space quite a while.

And so he, uh, he helps us do a lot of the vetting of, of who we're hiring, but it's

a challenge.

I mean, it's like one of our bottlenecks is like, uh, as you launch these businesses,

like how do you operationalize them and how do you, how do you hire a good management

team that actually has upside in the business?

Like you're, you're always going to have to like give a percentage of equity or something,

you know, to that management team, especially if you're bringing on high level executives.

Uh, and so these are all like things we've had to think about over the past year.

And so it does become challenging, uh, when you kind of pivot from just being a management

company to getting into some of these other businesses, but that's also what's exciting

is we kind of get to, to play in all these spaces, but yeah, back to banking.

I don't have a good answer.

Uh, we've looked at all the banks.

We know like what the valuations are.

We know which ones have just raised large amounts of money at multi-billion dollar valuations

with a couple million users.

And so for us, it's like, where are we making that bet?

Like who are we going to bet on that we think is, and they, we have to hit.

I don't think it's a space where we can miss, right?

I think like we have to hit, whether we hit on a small amount of equity or a large amount

of equity, we have to make sure that we swing and we hit the ball.

Like the last thing you want to do is like in this banking space is like swing and miss

over the next two to three years.

And then you look back on it and you're like, well, that was X amount of millions of dollars

that we missed out on because we made the wrong decision.

That's with everything.

It's not just banking.

I mean, there's a lot of spaces we're continually looking at.

Um, it's like, what, what's the play?

Small equity investing owned and operated.

It's the question I have to ask every day.

What are some, a few answers to that or other ideas that interest you?

Well, I think, um, outside of the banking space, I think one thing that we found really

interesting in just the content space, and you guys have seen this too, is like faceless

creators now have become so prominent on YouTube and Twitch.

And it started with like these avid, like 2d avatars.

So I think, um, corpse is a good example of someone that's done really well on.

What's that?

I don't know what that is.

He's a creator, but he doesn't show his face.

Like what I mean by faceless creator is like, uh, it's a, he's a YouTube creator.

He has a channel, but he never shows his true identity.

It's just a voice.

Right.

And that sounds like the greatest thing ever.

Right.

And it is for him, you know, for him for dream, uh, is another one.

He's one of the biggest, he's the biggest Minecraft YouTuber, uh, currently, uh, he had

a climb from zero to 10 million subscribers in under a year and nobody knows who this

kid is.

It's a complete like, uh, gas and mystery.

It's like what marshmallow was for music and like nobody really knowing who he was.

Now we've seen this kind of transition in the gaming space with all these faceless creators,

uh, that film videos and, and another good example is Technoblade, uh, is a YouTuber

that also plays Minecraft and he had like 175,000 concurrent viewers a couple of days

ago and there's no face cam.

It's just him playing the game, talking, right?

Nobody knows what, what he looks like.

And so for, for us, like we've been doing a lot of research on like this faceless creator

ecosystem and like if we see value in it and also the other thing it's like, there's cancel

culture has become very prominent in this industry, right?

And it's like, you do something bad when you're 12, it comes back to bite you and you're 20.

If you're a faceless creator and you're just a voice, it'll be interesting to see if like

there is a world where like something bad happens to one of these guys.

We had a situation with dream where he was, you know, allegedly caught cheating within

Minecraft.

You don't really know the true identity of that person.

Can they just disappear and start another identity and another channel and just kind

of start over.

Wait, that was the, that was the controversy.

Is that he'll use like a cheat code?

Oh, no, no, not a cheat code.

So he basically beat the speed run record in Minecraft and people put out videos that

he allegedly cheated to beat that speed run and it became this whole big thing and it's

still ongoing.

But when there's no person associated with it's like a different conversation.

Like you're, you're yelling at like someone who you actually don't know who that person

actually is.

What do you think of like even one step further, the virtual influencers like Lil Mikaela and

stuff like that where it's not even faceless.

It's like a CGI.

It's like a, you know, it's a virtual influencer.

I think it depends on what the strategy is.

I think with her, it's really hard to turn that into a bigger business.

Like how are you actually going to make money if it's just like an Instagram picture and

things like that?

I think that's how it started.

I think where you start actually seeing a considerably bigger business is when you actually

get into long form content and you can figure out how you get, you know, 10, 20, 30 minute

videos out there where you start building on this personality and then you can sell merchandise

and you can license videos.

I think that's where this becomes really interesting.

I don't think they figured it out with Lil Mikaela yet.

I think they do a little bit of video, but it's like five second video.

Not a ton you can do there.

I think you have to figure out like what's the YouTube strategy or what's the Twitch

live stream strategy.

Interesting.

Why is that?

That's because Instagram doesn't monetize as well.

If you're just posting photos, you're limited in some way or the fans don't love you in

the same way or what happens?

Yeah.

I mean, it really doesn't monetize at all unless you sell direct sponsorships to certain

posts and even then the Instagram market so oversaturated that to get a sponsorship

deal on Instagram is a lot more difficult with a million followers than it was a couple

of years ago.

Now a million followers on Instagram is like, okay, that's like cool, but like all these

people have 10 million now and the engagements are much higher.

That's crazy.

I also like the argument to YouTube creators, but I feel like at least from where I sit,

brands have started spending considerably more money on YouTube than they are on Instagram

because it's like long form video.

You can drive people to a link.

You can pull residual views for years and years and years and people will just continue

to see that ad and click on that link in the description and Instagram just doesn't offer

that yet.

Oh, by the way, I have the simplest business idea for you.

You're welcome.

This is going to be at least $10 million a year in your bank account.

I'll send you some paperwork.

Is this a sporting recruiting thing?

No.

I'll send you some paperwork to get my cut.

I can't get involved in the sporting world.

The recruiting sports kids world.

This is different.

This is very simple.

Sleep apps.

So, Calm and others are really big and there's a ton of these apps that basically just help

you fall asleep.

These apps do really, really well.

They have very high retention because you build the habit of every night before you

go to sleep, you basically listen to a bedtime story for adults or just sounds and you're

able to monetize them through in-app subscriptions.

Low price, but people are willing to pay to have different variety, more sounds and whatnot.

You have Calm on one side that's already broken out, become a billion-dollar company.

You have a whole bunch of smaller apps that built all the same functionality, but they're

just going to struggle to acquire users.

I think this is somewhere where if an influential person said, hey, sleep is super important

for all of us.

Like, when I have a good night of sleep, I'm less anxious the next day and I just feel

better, I have more energy.

This is what I use and you can even do some fun, kind of viral, like Mr. Beast could read

the bedtime story for one of them or he could get some friends to do it, some celebrities

to do some of the other bedtime stories.

Having your own branded sleep app, I think you could just buy one of these off the market.

I can send you five that are good and you guys could print money with this one.

I'm all about it.

I use Calm almost every morning, so to meditate.

I like Brain FM, that would be one of my categories for Mr. Beast, Brain FM.

They're quite small.

It's only two guys.

They create music so you can focus and then music to sleep.

Sam Harris is a good example of someone who's done this well.

Really easy category to go into, broadly applicable to everybody, super easy to monetize and

the bottleneck is distribution.

So I think that's the hallmark of what you want.

I'm into it.

Jimmy's going to hear this podcast and be like, where are we at with that project?

It's a good one, man.

I do Sam Harris's Waking Up app does $12 million a year in recurring revenue.

That's what I would bet.

I think looking at acquiring, we haven't dug into as much as we should.

Did you guys see Finger on the App, what Jimmy put out?

So we're in the process of doing Finger on the app too.

And for him, our mobile strategy is how do we create what he does on his YouTube channel?

How do we bring that to the masses?

Creator Games is Rock, Paper, Scissors.

How do we make the biggest Rock, Paper, Scissors tournament of all time through a mobile phone?

All right.

Here's another easy one.

Have you ever heard of Ketchap Games?

Ketchap Games.

Yeah.

It sold to Ubisoft, correct?

Yeah.

Did you ever play any of their games?

Oh, yeah.

And I play a lot of Voodoo.io as well.

So I'm so into the casual gaming space.

Hypercasual, yeah.

Hypercasual, yeah.

Exactly.

That's a great space to go into.

And again, tons of talent, little indie dev shops that make games that will never see, never

just reach 10,000 users because they don't know how to market it and it would just be

too prohibitively expensive to do so.

But you could build a Ketchap Games if you have the brand that Mr. Beast has.

I think that's an easy one.

There's a company called App Lovin' that my co-founder had previously co-founded.

It's a huge ad network, like a multi-billion dollar mobile ad network.

And then they just launched, they realized this, they're like, oh, look, there's a bunch

of these hypercasual games that do actually pretty well in terms of engagement and monetization,

but they'll just never get mass distribution to compete with Zynga and compete with all

these guys who spend so much money on our ad network.

So why don't we just take like 5% of our in-house ad inventory that we just have lying around.

It's not super expensive.

We don't make a ton of money off of it, but it's just in-house, it's just house inventory.

They bought this little dev shop and they call it Lion Studios.

And they just published their own mobile games and they just pump it through their own ad

network with the cheap house ad slots.

And that's become like a multi-hundred million dollar business unit within their ad network

now.

And I think that's just like amazing.

Sean, I think you need to just ask Reed for an internship.

I'll get your coffee, man.

I'll work for you for free over here.

I'm doing it already.

This is my interview.

Yeah, I have someone sitting over here taking notes as you're talking.

They're just like, okay, we need to talk to that company.

I'm just telling you all the things I'm looking at buying.

And then when I'm looking at buying, because I think it's a good business.

And then I'm just like, well, if I had, you know, 40 million YouTube subscribers who

love me and would listen to me, this would be way easier to like, you know, 10 X the

value of each one of these things.

So yeah, you can hit me up afterwards.

I'll send you some links and then go from there.

Yeah, I'm all about the hyper casual space.

It's like you get people in the funnel and you just keep coming out with really unique

games every, I think Voodoo now is doing like a game every three weeks.

It's gotten a little crazy.

And they just keep people in that funnel of games and they just continually come out

and some of them go off for a hundred million downloads.

And most just get like 10 to 15 million downloads and they run them through it.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It's such a good, it's such a good dumb business.

I love it.

Yeah.

I had someone pitch me on acquiring old mobile games that like didn't catch steam.

You go in and you basically act as a publisher.

You go in and like acquire 50 to 60% of the revenue for these games.

And then you bring along this whole influencer network that would like basically post and

push people to these games.

I can't remember what the company was called, but I thought it was a really sound like operation

of what they were trying to do.

We just didn't really, I mean, for us, like we were just kind of a point where like, if

we wanted to do it, we could probably just build it.

We would just need someone that was just living on the mobile app store, finding games.

The hard part now is like, there's a lot of noise.

It's like hard to stay focused on like what you know you can execute on.

And so a lot of myself and Ezra and a lot of the executives at Night Media, like we

have like our plan for 2021 and we're so focused that like a lot of this is just like all the

pitches that we get and stuff like that.

It's really hard to pay attention to everything because there's so many opportunities.

You just have to be like, where are the ones that we know we're going to win on?

And let's make sure we execute on that and not miss the one in front of us because there's

nine over here that we're paying attention to.

Story of a life.

Yeah.

Well, I think we usually try to keep these at right about an hour.

Sean, what do you think?

Yeah.

I think this was very cool.

And where should people find more about you?

You have your own podcast with Blake, right?

Or are you just a guest on that one?

No, I do.

It's called Creator Economics.

You know, for us, it was about educating the creator economy and like pushing it along.

I think, you know, if I can do anything and when I leave this business, who knows when

that is 10, 15, 20 years down the road?

Like hopefully I left it more educated and hopefully that we push the ball a little further

and people understanding what creators are capable of.

That's really why we did the podcast.

It's something that Blake and I love.

We just came out the new video today about the top five or the five YouTube channels

we think will break through in 2021.

Probably five channels nobody's ever heard of and one that only had like 60,000 subs

as we were filming the video and now I think is up to a hundred.

Yeah.

That's the kind of stuff we want to do.

And so if anyone wants to watch it, it's called Creator Economics on YouTube or any

of the podcast networks Spotify and Apple iTunes.

And do you use Twitter?

I use Twitter a little bit.

Read JD.

Same on Instagram.

Read JD.

I use Instagram a little more than I use Twitter.

Blake is Blake is Blake Robbins at Ludlow Ventures.

He's getting me more into the Twitter swing, but it wasn't something that I really had

used up until about six months ago.

Cool.

Well, thank you, man.

We really appreciate this.

This is fun.

I appreciate guys.

Thanks for having me on.

Thanks for having me on.

Thanks for having me on.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.