My First Million: #144 - Shaan's Giving Away A Company, A Mysterious, Anonymous New App and The Most Gimmicky Marketing Thing The Guys Have Done

All right.

Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now, HubSpot

just launched a Shark Tank rewatch podcast called Another Bite.

Every week, the hosts relive the latest and greatest pitches from Shark Tank, from Squatty

Potty to the Mench on a Bench to Ring Doorbell, and they break down why these pitches were

winners or losers, and each company's go-to-market strategy, branding, pricing, valuation, everything.

Basically all the things you want to know about how to survive the tank and scale your

company on your own.

If you want to give it a listen, you can find Another Bite on whatever podcast app you listen

to, like Apple or Spotify or whatever you're using right now.

All right.

Back to the show.

All right.

Well, what do you want to talk about, Sam?

Did you see I lined up, you have like a little crush on Mr. Beast, I think, right?

I do not have a little crush on Mr. Beast, but I think he's doing interesting stuff.

So his manager's coming, and I think we lined up, did we line up one or two more people?

Yeah.

His manager's coming.

Next podcast.

The podcast that comes out Friday.

And then that Deep Sennaville, you know, those guys, they reached out to me, I will hope

to set something up with them, but no more guests, or we don't have a lot of guests playing.

Our friend Sully's coming on in a couple of weeks.

Oh, is he?

All right.

That's cool.

Sam, you seem out of it.

Are you okay?

I'm tired.

I'm tired.

I'm tired.

That's all.

Do I need to crack open a Topo Chica for you?

No.

I'm good.

I'm good, man.

This note in Austin yesterday, I was freezing my ass off and I stayed inside and like slept

and didn't exercise that much and it still wore me out.

So I'll give you, I'll do an idea that's based on the way you're feeling right now.

So are you familiar with smelling salts?

Yeah.

I mean, originally they're meant for like waking someone up after an injury.

Yeah.

Like after a knockout.

Yeah.

Like Barstool Sports uses them as a joke where they like go and find someone whose eyes

are closed and they put them under their nose to make them throw up.

Yeah.

So basically, I've been looking into smelling salts and I originally wasn't going to even

talk about this idea on here because I gave it to a friend of mine to execute.

So nobody copied this idea.

But if you can help out or you got ideas, feel free to chime in.

But I like this idea.

So smelling salts, traditionally I only knew them because, okay, boxer gets knocked out.

You wave the smelling salts in front of their nose and they wake up.

The other option is you are the other people that use them are like weight lifters.

So before any weightlifting competition, you'll see a lot of weight lifters crack a smelling

salt open and basically just use it to get kind of amped up before they do their lift.

And it's a stimulant.

And so same thing with football players.

There's a whole bunch of videos of Peyton Manning and a bunch of NFL players before

games using smelling salts to sort of get amped up and get ready to go.

So I thought that's interesting.

And I'm somebody who I never drink coffee.

I don't drink any coffee.

I don't drink any soda.

So I basically never do like caffeine stimulants.

But I'm really into this idea of being able to quickly snap into like, I don't know, like

a peak state of mind.

All right.

I treat like, I treat my work day like an athlete treats their pregame, you know, routine.

Like, you know, I don't just get up and start, start working like in the same way.

An athlete doesn't just kind of roll out of bed and go play a game.

Like they have a warm up and they have a routine they do beforehand to get themselves ready

to go.

Do you take smelling salts?

I don't.

And I don't because smelling salts are not that good for you, right?

Smelling salts have ammonia.

It's not terrible for you, but over a long term basis, it's known to like irritate the

lining of the nose and the skin, the interior of your nasal passageway, and it's not great

for you.

But it's effective.

And so it is more effective than most than like coffee or, you know, like drinking a shitty

energy drink.

And so I thought, okay, what if I can create a smelling salt that's not bad for you?

So the smelling salt that doesn't have the same harsh chemical, but still has the same

stimulating effect.

And idea would be to sell this to two groups of people potentially.

One is like the pre-workout crowd.

So pre-workout is a big supplement category.

So like no explode was one, but there's a whole bunch of these pre-workout powders you

take.

Basically just something to get you amped up before you work out.

And it's not a protein powder.

It's a pre-workout powder.

And then there's another group of people that I think would be good for this, which is just

people who work at a desk who are kind of like productivity nerds and they want to like

optimize themselves.

They want to do a little bit of biohacking slash like productivity nerdery to make this

happen.

Did you look at that?

Have you looked at this stuff on Amazon?

Yes.

So I typed in smelling salt.

So there's this, the leading company looks like it's called Atomic Rhino.

And there's another one called like something sport, Timonia Sport.

They all look like that on the cover is like a guy exploding with steroids, basically.

It just looks like a meathead product because it is a meathead product today.

Oh my God.

This is crazy.

I'm going to buy this.

The reviews are really good.

They're probably all fake.

But how interesting.

How about this one?

Asylum smelling salts.

Right.

So good.

You go crazy.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's the, all the existing products in the market are branded like this.

And then you have a whole other batch of like people that buy products that are, you

know, like essential oils and whatnot.

They're kind of like a different brand.

And so what I, so I talked to my, listen to this one.

It's called nose torque, the most potent, long lasting smelling salts available.

Number one choice of power lifters worldwide.

Exactly.

I don't want nose torque, but I'm down to get like amped up and in the zone.

So I saw, here's what I did.

So I, I called my friend, one of my best friends from college is Guy Tophic.

And he's a ear, nose and throat surgeon now.

And he's like, you know, probably one of the smartest guys I know on balance.

And I asked him, I said, Hey, how bad are smelling salts for you?

And like, are there alternatives?

And he basically said two things.

He goes, well, you know, a smelling salt is just a really, really strong odor.

In fact, it's a ammonia.

It basically smells like piss and like a really strong concentrated form of piss.

It's a stimulant.

Yes.

But it's not like it makes you, you know, stronger in any way.

It doesn't like actually do anything to you.

But like, it's like, it's sort of like a placebo effect because if you do it all the time.

So if you keep taking it, if you have a really strong odor before you do something and your

body starts to act a certain way, it will anchor that connection.

So like, if you want to get into that state of mind, that mood faster, the smell can just

become an anchor for it.

And so he's like, yeah.

And he gave me a couple of compounds.

He's like, these would be superior alternatives to the ammonia blend that, you know, the

ammonia formula that these guys use, use this instead.

This won't have the damaging effects, but we'll still have the strong stimulant.

And so I think this is a little fun, little D to C idea.

I'm going to do it.

I have an operator now who's doing it for me because I don't have the time and I can't

wait to see where this goes.

Cause I think nose torque and, you know, like nasal blaster are not the way to do this.

Yeah.

I'm looking this up.

This is something I can't believe this will be interesting to watch.

I would never bet my money on it, but I would love to pay the entry fee just to watch you

right.

So I'm going to build this one in public.

So everything from sourcing to whatever.

So I'm having the guy who's, who's working on it, basically working on it blog about

it.

You know, when he, when he writes his first thing, we'll, we'll kind of introduce anyone

I know.

Uh, yes.

Someone you know, someone who in fact has even been on the podcast once in a small way.

So we'll, we'll leave it as a teaser for now, but it's not like salts.

Are they the same ethnicity as you?

Uh, they're not the same ethnicity as me.

No.

Hmm.

Hmm.

So that's one idea.

Uh, let's do another idea.

So actually I'll tell you about something pretty interesting since you didn't really

have too many topics.

I'm just kind of kind of monologue half the podcast and you react to these things that

are going on.

All right.

So I've been, what's the right way to introduce this?

Okay.

So something cool happened to me last week or two weeks ago where I got a DM from somebody.

Can't say who, but it's like a very well-known person in the kind of like tech world, somebody

who I kind of like, look up to, consider like, awesome.

I don't know this person.

So I was surprised to get a DM from them.

And they basically said, Hey, join this, uh, like kind of private community on Apex.

I never heard of Apex don't know what that is.

So join this private community on Apex.

A bunch of us are on there.

I think you'll like it.

And I just thought this was spam.

I was like, Oh, someone's account got hacked and they're just trying to like, they're just

spamming everybody using this person's account, uh, to try to grow their thing, I guess.

So I wrote back, I like kind of actually kind of rudely, I was like, okay, like, did you

get hacked?

You know, what is this, and the person was like, no, uh, did not get hacked.

Why don't know what you mean.

Um, I'm inviting you to this.

And I was like, but you don't even know me.

And it's like, person's like, well, actually I've seen you on Twitter, you know, followed

you kind of for a little while, you know, just Twitter respect.

So thought I'd invite you to this.

And I was like, Oh, yeah, this might be real.

Okay.

So I go and click on what's Apex.

So Apex is a new app.

So anybody can create their own Apex, they can create their own little island, right?

So you can create an island.

So this person had created one.

You can invite whoever you want to it, you invite a real person, but once they join,

you can make an anonymous or Sedona is where you can pick a random username.

So it's like an idea is like a digital masquerade party.

So you invite all your friends, but everybody comes with a mask on.

So nobody knows who's who, but everybody knows we're all kind of like, we've all been

curated here.

It's not just randos of the internet.

What's the call the app is called Apex and it's out.

It's not a test flight.

So it's actually in the, in the app store and I really like this idea.

I've actually myself wanted to create something like this.

I wanted to create a version of this that was like a public.

Like I wanted to invite a bunch of badass people, let them all be anonymous, but everybody

in the thing is badass.

And so they feel free to say whatever they want, but it's not just like random anonymous

egg accounts on Twitter or YouTube comments.

How would I find this private groups Apex private groups?

It's like a two arrows up, two arrows up.

Yeah, exactly.

Interesting.

Uh, you know, like there's a bunch of apexes, right, like, so I'm, you know, I'm in one.

I just created another and I'm like, okay.

So I created one.

Oh my gosh, dude, this is so weird that why would they do this?

The, if you go to the apex screen, like the, um, the app screen, the app store, like the

app store preview in their demo picture, the username is called every Jepstein.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know which one you're looking at.

I see one that says kill Blinton and, uh, Beth Jesus, uh, those are the ones that every

Jepstein, uh, and then the, you know, the group is called the Illuminati.

Uh, and so they're like, they're like leaning into, they're leaning into like, this is a

place where you can say what you want, which is like timely, right?

Like, you know, the president just got de-platformed and banned off of like every social network.

This has been a ongoing issue.

Like I've gotten in, you know, hot waters for this, you've gotten in hot waters for

this where you say something on Twitter.

It's associated with your real name.

You get kind of like a lot of backlash for it.

And then the next time you tweet, you sort of think twice before you do it.

Cause Hey, I, you know, I don't want to ruin my reputation just if, if people disagree

with me, or if I say something kind of without thinking about it, or I have employees, I

got a company.

I don't want, I don't want advertisers to pull out.

If I say something that's just my personal opinion.

So I like this.

I think this is the way the world is going, which is a retreat away from social media

to private media.

I think people are leaving the town square and they're going to their favorite pub and

they're going to close the door and they're going to basically, people are going to hang

out in private groups more and more and more.

It's already happening.

And this is, I think an app that is well designed to do, to do well there.

There's just two guys behind it that I've seen on Twitter, a designer and a developer.

And it's very cool.

So I created a new, a new little one.

I'm going to invite some people to it, let the masquerade go.

And it's cool because I can invite people and then to like to get in, you have to like

authorize your Twitter or your, I can set it where I can say, they have to like prove

they are who they say they are on the, at the door.

And then they create their account and their username and whatever else after that.

And then you could,

But who can verify that they are somebody, the creator of the group of the private host

of the party.

Basically.

So can I tell you my prediction on this?

Yeah.

It's going to get quite popular.

Okay.

If it raises seed funding early on, it's ruined.

If it stays independent for a while and gets a huge user base and then raises money, then

there's a shot.

Okay.

Gotcha.

So it's not, not, it's not the raising that's going to, it's not the raising that kills

them.

You're saying it's a signal.

Like if they get a bunch of money before they get hot, I think I'm going to bet that

they die.

Is that it?

It's kind of like a, like a WhatsApp type of deal where like, or something that like

it's already successful and it's already big, we're just going to make it bigger and

more successful.

So if you do like a thing where they raise money early on and they get too much of the

wrong hype, I think it's going to die.

Okay.

I can see that.

I can see that.

Like, you know, there's three apps that I'm referring of that are the same thing, like

the secret thing.

So like, okay, here's what we'll do.

I will create one for listeners of this podcast.

Well, let's try it out.

We'll see what happens.

So the way to get it is the app is called Apex.

If you search the app sort of apex private groups and the symbol is like two little arrows

going up and I created a group just now, I'm calling it platform nine and three quarters

just like a Harry Potter.

And don't do that.

Just call my first million.

How do you do my, I don't even know how to type in three quarters.

It's three quarters.

It's 0.75.

I did 0.75.

Okay.

I can rename it.

So I'll rename it to my first minute.

I'll put the link in the description of this podcast episode.

That's the private link to join and it's a mass great party.

Now I don't know.

Well, I don't know if that group particularly is going to be that interesting.

I think this is interesting when you kind of like curate the set of people, but we'll

try it and we'll see.

But so you, you can see who they are.

I can see when they join who they are.

I don't think once they join, I don't think I know what they set their name to and who's

who.

I don't think that would be, you just know that person is in the room and they're one

of the five here.

I just know at the door, I can say yes or no to the person.

And once they're in, I don't know who's saying what, I don't know who's who.

I hope that's the way it works.

If I can just always see everybody, that's kind of lame.

Let me see.

Yeah.

I don't think I could.

Yeah.

I cannot see once you join.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I can't tie your real identity to your, to your username.

I'm excited to try this.

I don't have my phone on me, but I'll use it.

And by the way, here's the other interesting thing.

The group I'm in, you know, you have like what you see on Facebook and Twitter every day.

Like, okay, I go check social media.

Everybody says X.

Everybody's kind of an agreement.

This is good.

This is bad.

These guys are heroes.

And then I'd go into the apex and it's like the, not the opposite opinions, but you hear

people say things there that they're, that you just don't hear people saying in public

social media.

And that's why it's quite addictive to keep checking it because.

It is interesting.

There's this, there's this, and they're not idiots because like they were invited.

They'll curate it in.

It's not just like randoms, you know, there's this firm who you and I know well.

It started as a two-person VC company.

They were associated with me and they say they have this very public presence.

And when they talk about stuff, I'm like, okay, you feel that way in private.

One time I've brought a few things up and I'm like, well, you know, you believe this.

And they've just been like, oh, no, that's not like, no, that's way too woke.

We don't believe it.

Like that's, no, just like we want to get, we want, we're just here to get rich.

And like they just, well, how do you feel about that?

My opinion is that is the week of the week.

And I want nothing to do with you.

For people that are kind of two-faced, you mean?

Yeah, or, but another perspective on this is fair, which is like, yeah, but they're

plenty.

So like you and I have a couple of friends that maybe have this persona of being this

nice person and in real life, they're just cut throughout Ruthless and they'll destroy

you.

Maybe you could, one justification is, yeah, they're playing the game.

I mean, this is just how it's played and they're just trying to get yours.

You can't be mad at them.

But then the other side is like, no, you're a punk.

You don't have any integrity.

You're just like, sit, call it like it is and be you 24 seven.

Where do you come out on that of like people in this app not talking like that?

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I think two things.

One is we're all guilty of it.

So we are all guilty of, you know, signaling one thing to the public and, you know, there

being a gap between like reality and what we signal.

So like the innocent version of this is, you know, you go post on Instagram pictures of

yourself, you know, at a brunch cafe with avocado toast and a mimosa, and you're saying

how great life is.

And then, you know, you go home and you're lonely and miserable, right?

Like we don't post that part of our lives.

And so there's a silent like lie that happens there, which is, you know, you, you lie through

omission, right?

You only say the good things that make you look good and you don't share any of the things

that don't make you look good.

And so there is sort of a false presentation of yourself.

Then that's level one.

Level two is what you talked about where it's like, or sorry, level two is you think something,

but you decide not to say it because you don't know how other people are going to feel about

it, right?

And so there, their opinions of you matter, you care what other people think, and so you

censor yourself.

You're afraid.

That's level two.

Yeah.

Fear and self-censorship, you know, take it out.

And then there's level three, which is what you talked about, which is just a straight

up lie where you say one thing and you actually mean another or believe another.

And yeah, if you're level three, I also consider you kind of like a punk and, you know, you lose

some respect points there.

And I, you know, I try not to do that ever myself, but maybe I've done it at some point

in my life.

I'm definitely guilty of levels one and two, where like, you know, only post the good shit,

leave out the bad shit, and also think something, but don't know how other people are going to

react to it.

I might as well just like not say it.

Don't cause a fuss.

Well, that's different.

That's a little different.

Yeah.

Can we talk about this guy who you have listed, the best segments that I get from you or the

Billy of the day?

Yeah.

Which one do you want me to do?

There's only one up there.

The guy with such a decay, right?

He's not a guy.

That's a woman.

So the woman's name is Catalan Carrico.

I have this person as Billy of the week in reality, not a billionaire, but just a fucking

baller.

And this story is incredible.

So do you know who this person is?

Like, did you know them before this?

Never heard that name.

I didn't know them before this either.

So Catalan Carrico, and I hope I'm saying the name right.

I've never heard it said.

I've just read it.

By the way, in one of the most recent reviews, someone said that even though I butcher everyone's

name, they're happy that I try really hard, because I do.

So this person is kind of the key person for why we have the COVID vaccine.

So a little bit of science.

So normal vaccine is you get injected with like a dead or weakened version of the virus,

right?

So you send in a version of the virus with its legs tied together in handcuffed.

It's dead.

It's weak.

And your body creates an immune response to the virus, right?

It does take a long time to develop, and you can't always develop them for all different

types of viruses.

The reason we were able to get this vaccine done faster was, obviously, A, the whole world

decided this is a big problem.

But B, they used a different technique, a technique called mRNA vaccines.

If you just take out all the science jargon in simple terms, what it is, is mRNA is a

little messenger.

The messenger has a little envelope.

The envelope is like, here's the genetic code of the protein that's on top of the virus,

right?

The envelope that's on top of the virus is just like a little cell that has a protein

on top.

It's kind of like that's its face or its hat.

If you want to recognize the virus, look at the protein.

That'll tell you which one's the virus.

So the messenger RNA goes in with the envelope.

The envelope says, this is what the hat looks like.

It goes into your cell.

The cell opens up the envelope and says, oh, this is what the protein looks like.

Cool.

Let's make some of this protein.

And your ribosomes make the protein, and the protein goes in your bloodstream.

So you get the protein of the virus, so your body can start to recognize it and fight it,

but it's just the protein.

It's not the actual virus, so you can't get sick from it.

So that's the breakthrough in the way this vaccine works.

And so this woman has been working on this technology for like, I don't know, 30 years

or something like that.

She's like, you know, came from, I don't know, somewhere in Eastern Europe, Germany,

Ukraine, something like that.

And she was working on this.

And then everybody initially was really excited about mRNA vaccines.

It was like, like most things, it's like, there's the initial hype, like with VR or

crypto or whatever.

And then there's like the trough of sorrow where people give up on it, and they're like,

ah, this will never happen.

And so in the 90s, everybody in the scientific community gave up on mRNA vaccines.

This woman basically like threw away her career because she believed in it.

She was like, all right, I know there's no funding for this.

Nobody will hire me to work on mRNA vaccines.

There's just no money in this space, but I believe.

And so she just kept working on it and kept persisting all the way through the 90s, a decade

plus.

And eventually she published a paper that kind of like showed that like what the power of

mRNA can be for various use cases.

And that paper was read by three different groups of people.

One was this guy at Stanford, and he, he was like a kind of a postgraduate PhD person at

Stanford.

He reads this paper that she put out and goes, holy shit, this is going to be big and starts

working on mRNA.

He ends up inventing a company called Moderna.

Moderna is one of the vaccine creators, one of the people who, one of the companies that

has the vaccine for COVID.

And it's not.

Wow.

Moderna is only 10 years old.

Exactly.

So this guy leaves Stanford, he partners up with two scientists.

There's a guy, there's a badass guy.

This guy is actually like, you know, somebody who should be Billy of the week.

He is at like MIT or somewhere.

And this guy's got like 250 kind of patents that he sold to pharmaceutical companies.

So he's like the man when it comes to commercializing this stuff.

And so these three guys co-found Moderna.

Moderna is now like, I don't know, how many $10 billion-ish company off of this woman's

work.

They license her work.

So another company gets started called BioNTech.

They also read this paper.

So imagine how cool this is.

It's like Satoshi with the Bitcoin white paper.

She just publishes the scientific paper and then people all around the world are reading

this and the light bulb is going off simultaneously with three different companies at once to

say, oh my God, this is going to change everything.

And so BioNTech gets formed.

They basically bring her on as like, they licensed her tech, so she got paid as a licensee

of the technology.

And then now she's like the vice president or whatever of their science division.

So she's kind of like a co-founder of one of the companies.

That's also doing very well.

She looks exactly like I would expect her to look.

She looks like a hardened person, a hardened Hungarian biochemist.

This is correct.

She looks like she.

Her daughter is like an Olympian, like a gold medalist.

Like she, you know, like this whole family is probably just bad ass.

Yes.

She looks like she will solve like she looks like the female version of James Bond.

Yeah.

Like she's, she's a bad ass.

If you just read like kind of what she went through as an immigrant working on this thing,

nobody believed in.

And now she's going to win the Nobel Prize for this.

Like 20 years later, the payoff happened.

That to me is like so admirable to, to believe in your thing when everybody all stops believing

and you just say, fuck it, and you just keep going for two decades.

That's like three decades.

That's that is bad ass.

So she's 66 years old.

So she's part of one of the companies and then there's another company doing this.

And now Pfizer and others are using this same technique to cure COVID, but this is not just

going to cure COVID.

So like this idea of mRNA vaccines is actually the most promising path we have to curing cancer

also.

And I'm not saying it's going to cause like there's a lot of false hope when it comes

to these things.

But you know, the way we try to cure cancer today is we're like, oh, you have cancer cells

in your body.

Let's just nuke your whole body with radiation.

Let's kill the good cells.

You'll lose your hair.

You'll throw up.

Like let's just kill you.

And like right when you're on the brink of death, we'll stop giving you radiation and

like hopefully we've killed the cancer cells in that time.

And what this instead will do is it's going to allow for what's called like a designer

vaccine for cancer, which is people are going to figure out what cancer you have.

Oh, here's the cells that you have that are cancerous.

What proteins do they have?

And then let's create the vaccine just like we did for COVID with mRNA to get your body

to produce those proteins and start to build immunodefenses for it.

So it's like immunotherapy.

When you hear these stories, do you think that well, I'm just I'm working on this clothing

company or I'm looking on this video, video game platform.

And then you read this and you just do you say yourself, I'm worthless.

No, I say to myself, I'm going to tell everybody how awesome this person is so that, you know,

the five people that listen to this that are capable of doing this are going to be inspired

by this person.

They're going to go do something like this themselves.

Okay.

That's such an easy out.

I'm the messenger, baby.

Okay.

That's a good answer.

Yeah.

Correct.

Fine.

You could say it.

Yep.

Honesty.

My true answer is something like that.

Like when I took a step back after we sold and I was like, all right, what do I do with

the next 10, 20 years of my life?

Like, what do I want to work on?

I was lucky that the thing I like to do, which is like learn stuff and teach stuff through

things like this podcast or whatever, I think genuinely that is the highest leverage thing

any one person can do.

Well, I think that's, it's silly to compare, but it's undeniably interesting that if you

can have a mad, a large audience and tell them of cool people who deserve to be well

known.

You're right.

Tell them of cool people.

I'm just saying in general teaching, I believe is like a multipliers, a force multiplier.

I agree with you.

I go try to do something myself, right?

I'm one operator.

I can be the greatest operator in the world.

I'm Elon Musk or somebody like that.

That's like the pinnacle of that.

I agree with you.

On the other hand, you could be a teacher.

A teacher basically is going to now have n number of students, right?

So I could reach a million students.

I could unlock them as operators to be better.

And now that's leveraged what I have in my head.

Okay.

But think about it differently.

We talk on here about boring businesses all the time.

We talk about it.

The reason we talk about it is like, well, we haven't heard about it before, but also

they make a lot of money and it's easy and it's not a lot of work where it's a lot of

work, but it's simpler and it's a surefire way.

At the end of the day, and this isn't an insult.

At the end of the day, that's a very hedonistic way of viewing life.

That's very much like, I'm going to, I don't care what I'm doing because I'm providing

for me and my family, which, you know, supplying for you, giving your family a good life.

That's not quite hedonistic, but it's still like, if you include your family and it's

quite selfish and again, nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is.

But we go, like whenever I go and like get sick and meet a nurse practitioner who helps

me or hear about this woman, I'm like, there is, you know how people say like, you know,

just because you're rich doesn't mean you're like more valuable than someone else.

I agree with that.

But then I hear this woman, she could be poor.

I have no idea.

I'm like, oh, that one was more valuable than me and more valuable than a lot of others.

Yes.

The people who are like the Catalan Carricos and the Elon Musk's and the, um, forgot the

guy who started microfinance or whatever microlending, the people who go and someone

who's going to go and fight climate change, let's be honest, they don't listen to this

podcast for the most part.

And if they do, the things they're hearing here are not really going to help them do

that thing.

Uh, right, like the great scientists, scientists, entrepreneurs, essentially, they are motivated

and inspired by different things altogether.

There's a different teacher for them, right?

There's a different person out there who gives them information and inspiration and it's

not me for the most part.

If I do what I do though, there's like a different argument, right?

There's the hero argument, which says the world needs Elon Musk and Catalan Carricos

to like solve the big problems and like make us all better.

That's what I'll call the top down hero solution.

Superman flies in, saves the day.

And then there's the bottoms up solution, which is like, well, if every single person

got a little bit smarter, a little bit happier, a little bit healthier, a little bit more

kind and you know, a little bit more, you know, motivated and inspired every day rather

than feeling like they're going through the motions.

If you like solve it at the individual level for the masses, you make the world better

in a different way, right?

And so that's the bottoms up approach to doing the same, to, to start having a same, same

level of impact.

So if I was going to like be a little dreamy about what I'm doing or what not feel like

a piece of shit, I should say, it's like, well, if I can help a whole bunch of people

be a little bit healthier, a little bit happier and a little bit like more free financially

so that they can like spend their time doing what they want and not in some like kind of

tedious monotonous job every day, that's a different type of unlock versus these people

who are going to have these big breakthroughs and like solve big problems for humanity.

People talk about legacy fighters a lot, you know, athletes.

Particularly at UFC guys, they're like, it's about legacy.

And then business people also say that as well.

They say, like, all right, I have money now, it's all about legacy.

And I'm like, okay, yeah, your legacy is making your name known part of it.

Your legacy is definitely leaving the world a better place.

I think that's cool.

But then I always try to look at the opposite of everything.

And the opposite of that is like just live a quiet existence.

And this is like what I said about being hedonistic and selfish, live a quiet existence, have

a ton of fun and take care of your family and just seek pleasure.

And part of me is like, legacy is cool, but why the hell do I care?

I'm dead.

Screw it.

I'm having fun now.

Like when I think of like Steve Jobs, he was like, yeah, but how are you going to change

anything when you're like not working 80 hours a week?

And I'm like, I'm not.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't want to.

Yeah.

Those things bother me because I'm like, we value these Elon Musk the world and I acknowledge

that they need to exist, but then most of the time I'm like, I don't want to do that.

Right.

Fuck that guy.

Yeah.

Well, there's a question of like, do I need to change the world?

Right.

How do I want to live?

That's fair.

Like, okay.

So I was listening to something interesting.

I'll tell you about this conversation.

So I don't know how randomly on YouTube I got onto this video that was Scott Adams, who's

the creator of Dilbert and Naval Ravikant, who's like kind of the Silicon Valley, you

know, the guy who created Angel List and a bunch of other cool things.

They're at his house.

They're at Scott.

They're talking.

They're doing a periscope and they just recorded the thing and they agree about a bunch of

things.

And then one question came up.

They go, what do we disagree on?

Naval goes, you know, I think we disagree on like the importance of having kids and Scott's

like, what do you mean?

I got kids.

He's like, well, yeah, but like you adopted or like, you know, biological kids and he's

like, and Scott's like, well, like, and then they kind of laugh and it's like, and Naval's

like, look, look, look, look, I'm not saying adoption is bad.

I'm not saying foster care is bad.

I'm just saying like, for me, it was really important to like biologically, I have my

own biological kids and like reproduce basically like at his core, he's a scientist and he's

basically like at an evolutionary person from an evolutionary point of view, you know, we

are reproducing machines.

All that we're doing, those of us who made it this far is because in our genes, there

is a desire to replicate, to reproduce and that's how we stayed on and other people who

didn't care about reproducing didn't reproduce and their genes are now dead.

And so Scott goes, well, I would say I'm reproducing, but just in a more efficient way.

He goes, I put out ideas into the world through my blog, through this, you know, live streams,

through my comics with Dilbert, if my ideas go live on, they'll live on far longer than

any child of mine will like they an idea can live forever, an idea can get into like thousands

of people where I'm only going to have a couple of kids.

So like for me, my replication is what I'll call mimetic and not genetic.

And I thought that was interesting and I've always found this interesting and I think

I've brought this up before, but like part of your legacy, it doesn't have to be what

you did.

It can be like an idea or philosophy you put in the world that lives on far beyond your

kind of like flesh and bones, your, you know, your little meat sack that you live in.

And so like, do you think about that?

Like forget about legacy, like, oh, I'm the guy who built the railroads, but like, do

you care about your, about like your ideas spreading?

I mean, to some extent you do otherwise, why do this podcast?

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

But I asked myself, why, and is that really important?

Like, okay.

So there's like the fun factor of like, yeah, it's awesome.

You're powerful.

You're rich.

You do whatever you want.

That's cool.

What's the opposite look like where you're not that?

Is it a significant difference in happiness and fulfillment?

Right.

Maybe not.

I don't know, but I do question this.

All right.

So of those three paths that we just talked about, and maybe there's more.

Path one, the point of your life, you're optimizing for enjoyment of your life.

Number two is you're optimizing for legacy or some kind of impact on the world.

And then three is you're trying to have your kind of ideas spread and your ideas are your

legacy, not your accomplishments.

Which one resonates the most to you or none of them?

As of now, I think I'm a three, either a three or a one.

And then I'm sure you'd say one.

I think I'm more of a one of enjoyment, but in the future, I think I'll be a number two

and impact.

But as of today, right now, I have a feeling.

I don't know this yet.

I have a feeling when I have children, it changes a little.

Hmm.

Does it?

Not really.

I guess it changes, but like maybe for different people in different ways.

When I'm with my daughter, like I kind of like, I guess I'm in one of two modes, either

I'm like, oh my God, I just want to go do something else.

This is so boring.

I've read this book 45 times in a row, like bubbles, bubbles everywhere, bubbles, bubbles

in my hair.

Like I'm just tired of this.

I want to go do something more fun.

Do you know how fun the internet is?

I'm tired of like this babysitting that I'm doing right now.

And then other times I'm with her and I'm just like, dude, who cares about like success?

Like all I need to do is just hang out with her.

She's awesome.

And like, you know, I don't really need to go be like super ambitious.

Like what a waste of energy to go sit in my room on my computer.

And I'm literally like in one of those two camps at all times.

I think this is normal, but maybe not.

I think that for the people who are extremely successful, they don't waver.

Right.

But maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know.

I have a, I have another idea for you because I think we got philosophical for a bit.

So which idea do I want to do this kind of seem anticlimactic when we're talking about

like, what's the purpose of your life?

And I'm like, Oh, here's an idea.

That's okay.

By the way, Sean, people have been telling me they like listening to us because it's

not always strictly business.

They listen to us on a regular basis because they need, uh, someone was comparing us to

all in that podcast and then morning bruise thing.

I don't know what it's called.

Apparently they both talk about politics a lot and someone was like, Oh, I hate that.

I just want to like turn my like, they say they want to turn their brain off, but at

the same time they turn it on with us, but we don't ever talk about, well, it's an escape.

Right.

Like, we have, we, yes.

It's a very good escape.

Yeah.

And like, I always wanted to rename the podcast.

What was it?

Like idea porn or something like that.

Because porn itself is also kind of like an escape.

It's just kind of a pleasure thing.

It's not like a long-term commitment.

Like, I think a lot of people listen to these ideas not to go do them all, but just because

it's like interesting and entertaining and then embrace the podcast and be done with

it.

Embrace the banter, embrace the escape.

Are you going to talk about micro biz?

Uh, yeah.

Did you see what I did with this?

This is funny.

No.

I looked off.

I like the sound of that though.

All right.

So you actually missed this opportunity.

I pounced before because you didn't reply.

So wait, how did I not reply?

Okay.

So this guy, Andrew runs this company called micro acquire.com.

Yeah.

He's in the trends group.

Yeah.

And so he emailed you and me and he emailed us both and was just like, Hey, kind of a

fun idea.

There's a bunch of small micro businesses like a $5,000, a little business that's, you know,

you can buy for $5,000, what if we just gave it away to somebody like in the community?

And then I guess like you didn't reply or whatever.

And so he DM me.

He was like, you know, what do you think you want to do this?

And I was like, yeah, let's, and so then like literally, I didn't even like really

reply to him.

I just tweeted it out.

I was like, you know, people don't really know this, but like buying businesses is like

most awesome ways to go as an entrepreneur.

Like instead of building from scratch, you can buy and like, you know, if you want to

just like learn about business, don't go to business school, like let me save you the

time and money.

I'll just give you one of these micro businesses and go like learn by doing, I'll just give

you this $5,000 business.

And I said, you know, Andrew, what do you say, were you in on this, you know, you want

to do this?

And he was like, so I kind of made it public, like what he was doing in the DM and he's

like, hell yeah, like I'm in and I'll, I'll provide some coaching and we'll waive the

fees of the transaction or whatever.

And then other people started chiming in like, dude, this is awesome.

I'll chip in 5K too for free.

And so we ended up with $57,000 in the bank of people who are willing to just let us basically

now we have a 57, it was a $5,000 bankroll to go buy a business.

Now it's a $57,000 bankroll to go buy a business because people were just like, yeah, just

pick a cool operator, let them like take one of these businesses and run with it and let

them like build it in public and like talk about it as they go.

Like this is a cool experiment for science.

So who, who, what business are you guys going to get?

So then I said, all right, so then a bunch of people replied as like, pick me as the

operator because like, Hey, who doesn't want to just get a gift, a business gifted to them.

We found a couple of people and I think we're just going to like do like a 30 minute phone

call with the final two or three people and just pick one from there and give it to Henry

Johnson.

Henry Johnson.

Okay.

I don't know if he replied to it, but I'll check mine.

I know who you're talking about.

He's very active in our community.

And so then I went through all the businesses and was like, okay, which one is good to buy?

And you know, most of them, I would say like bad, like to the point where I was like, okay,

if you, if I gave someone this business, I'm giving them kind of a shitty job to go to

you.

So like, I want to avoid that.

You know, this experiment will be fun if the business has enough potential where like,

this can actually like grow into something.

So picking a good operator, a good business are important here.

So anyways, I'm curious of what's going to happen.

We're going to finalize the whole thing this week.

And I think what we're going to do is going to finalize, we finalize the money, we finalize

who the operator is this week, and then we're going to take a 60 day window and we're going

to say, all right, in the next 60 days, it's like a little tiny micro SPAC.

It's like, you have 60 days to find a company to acquire with this blank check.

And we're going to publish the whole thing on my newsletter about like, okay, here's

what they're doing.

Here's how it's going.

So on and so forth.

So I'm excited.

How do you have time to do all that?

Well, I'm not doing it.

I'm just picking it.

I just tweeted it out and I picked the operator.

Yeah.

But even like organizing.

Well, Andrew from Microquire is like more of the guys going to like make it happen because

for them, this is like the best fucking advertising.

Like he was showing me the stats from the, just from the tweet alone, I think he got

like, you know, four or 5,000 followers on Twitter, which is like, I don't know, probably

doubled his Twitter following.

And then he showed me the Google analytics of the site and it was like, you know, a thousand

plus concurrent users on the site at that very second.

And so, you know, I'm sure he already kind of like made his money back just in terms

of people buying the membership or finding out about it.

But it's, you know, credit to him of like, it was his idea to do something cool like

this, like give away a business.

That's a way better marketing push than just saying, Hey, did you know, like my site exists,

come visit it.

Right.

Like I think he deserves the additional traffic he's going to get out of it, but he's got

to do the work now to like make it all go.

I'm not going to do the work.

Yeah.

I'm looking it all up now.

This is a, it's a great site.

He's been doing it for a minute and now it's, it was okay at first.

Now it's really getting cool.

I really like the concept of the site.

I would say like just in full transparency, most of the deals on there, I think are very

bad deals, but you know, whatever that's any marketplace has a bunch of junk and has some

really good stuff.

That's where all the value is.

So don't be like, Oh, Sean said micro cards.

Great.

I'm going to go buy some business on here.

Like I would not advise that as just like a, like do your homework.

Okay.

You're shoulders.

Are they tired?

I'm carrying the weight this whole time.

No, dude.

I just get stronger as the hour goes on.

Okay.

Let's do one more.

Last one.

Maybe Eureka surveys.

I want to save that one.

The guys, the guys, uh, so we talked about user testing and these guys are doing something

dope with, uh, in that vein and he DM me and he shared the numbers, but I think they wanted

to like, like they're just like, they want to push out of private beta and the public

beta.

So he's like, wait one week to talk about it.

I was like, all right, fine.

No problem.

We want to do all more.

Yeah.

Let's do one more.

Um, okay.

Here's like, okay.

I'll give you two really dumb, simple ideas.

Maybe something like this exists, but I were going to do these pain points and maybe somebody

could build a simple tool that solves these.

So the first one is Amazon affiliate links.

So you say on your blog, you used to sell Amazon affiliate, right?

I used to have affiliate links.

Yeah.

I would make about four or five grand a month.

And to do that, you have to become a like official affiliate or something like that.

Correct?

Yeah.

And I've been banned many times for doing stuff that I didn't think was banable.

There's kind of a process you have to go through to do that.

Cause like, for example, a bunch of people were asking me about like, you know, my setup

of like a podcast and stuff like that.

I was like, okay, cool.

Why don't I just publish this one?

You have to have a blog, but like, for example, I didn't know that you, so there's rules.

You cannot, there's like many rules, but one of the rules is you cannot email people

a link.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

I was reading the newsletter and I was like, how do you do this?

And they banned me.

It's a big pain in the butt.

Or the other day, it used to be like four and a half percent commission.

They just said, all right, for most all these categories, now it's 2%, like they just change

it whenever.

Okay.

So this idea might not actually be viable.

It might not work with the term of service, but basically like a one off, like, you know,

like link shortners, like bitly and shit like that.

Like why not just like a one off way to generate an affiliate link for Amazon products?

Because I don't want to go become a merchant and a long term affiliate and become a blogger.

Like none of that stuff, but like, why can't I just like affiliatize my link once?

Well, there's this, there's this company called skim links.

Have you heard of skim links?

No.

Is that what that is?

It's an EEC.

Yeah.

A little bit.

They, they're about 12 years old.

They, in 2017, they did a hundred, they did a billion dollars in gross market or what's

it called?

GMV.

Yeah.

GMV.

So let's say they took a 30 or 40% cut.

That's $300 million, which I don't know if it's that high.

Probably way less.

What?

Even 2% of a billion is not, not nothing.

Sure.

Yeah.

It's actually probably 30, 40 million they do, but that's what they do.

And they've been around for a while, 12 years.

It's a pretty reputable company.

Pretty big.

They've raised tens of millions, maybe close to a hundred million in revenue.

And it is kind of similar and it's quite effective.

You never heard of skim links?

I've heard of it once before, but I didn't know if it works for, does it work for Amazon

products or no?

I don't know exactly how it works, but I know that they cold email me on a regular basis

to sign up, but I guess you're saying something valid.

Yeah.

So basically, like, I just think there should be like a disposable, simple way to affiliatize

my link to whatever product it is.

And somebody should make like a bitly that just does that easily.

Maybe skim links is kind of already this.

Yeah.

And it's actually owned by another company.

Have you ever studied like ad tech?

I mean, not studied it.

No, but.

Man, these ad tech companies like, like, okay, so the company that owns skim links is called

Contexity.

The company that owns Contexity is called Symphony Tech Group founded in 2012.

It's total portfolio includes $2.5 billion in revenue and 15,000 employees.

There's ad tech companies that you, unless you're in the, in the world of ad tech have

no idea exists that are just massive, massive, massive, massive.

It's amazing.

Oh, wait.

Sorry.

Symphony Tech Group is PE.

I was wrong.

But you get the idea.

Like some of these ad tech games or ad tech businesses are freaking nuts.

Right.

And I don't really understand how most of ad tech truly works because it's like such

a complicated machine of like cookie swaps and data transfer.

And this is like all kinds of like, oh, the pixel is hashed and then the hashed user is

passed to here.

It's like, what's going on?

Like, how do these businesses work and who, who the hell thinks of this stuff?

And you know, obviously, you know, there's a lot of money to be made.

So, so good on them.

Okay.

Here's another kind of simple idea.

I've kind of said this before, but Facebook advertising is like one of the like, you know,

big industry.

You know, there's probably like nine to 10 million advertisers on Facebook.

Let's say even half of them are active or, you know, whatever, let's say four million

active advertisers on Facebook, make up some round numbers.

And the ad manager is just like such a pain in the ass to work with.

It's a horrible thing.

And one of the biggest problems with it is just visual, I just going and checking how

are my ads doing?

And you know, they present it in this like very like sterile table kind of way.

And I think that somebody, I think that there should be this like somebody who just says,

all right, how do I build a layer on top of Facebook ads that is useful to some of the

four or 10 million advertisers of Facebook?

Like, what should they look at every morning?

How do I make this presentation more visual?

Right?

Like, how do I take all your ad creatives and then like layer on the data on top or

how do I show you, you and your competitors ads and how like just layer on top of the

Facebook ad manager is.

Have you seen ad espresso?

Yeah.

So I've used ad espresso before and I found it like, okay, to use it like kind of got

outdated.

Right?

It was like kitty shit.

The problem I found that if you get really complex, if you learn how to operate ad manager,

it's quite complex and you need it to be complex.

Right.

If you replace that manager, I'm saying, build things using that as the data source.

There's certainly going to be some value ad thing you can do that just uses that as the

data source and people are going to be willing to pay you monthly to get extra value or alternative

view or, you know, different, different level of insights.

You want to hear a crazy story about this.

So there was this company called contextual or context logic.

You know what that is?

You ever heard of that?

No.

It's one of my seed investors and a good friend and mentor of mine.

He was telling me about this company started 10 years ago in his office.

He had a small fund and he had a few extra offices and he let this young guy named Pete

who formerly worked at Google and his partner Dan, I think his name was both worked at Google,

both build up AdWords and they started tinkering around and they built this thing called contextual

logic.

I think it was called and it was a new ad network that was doing exactly what you've

described, but for Facebook and they started using it and they're like, well, we need it

to test it.

Let's sell some stuff on it and they started selling some stuff on it and they just went

to Alibaba and just sold crap and they're like, wait a minute, we can't give this away.

And so they pivoted and they started selling other people's stuff and then let merchants

get on there and they use their advertising prowess to do it and they eventually renamed

that company wish.

That is how wish.com started.

It was started because they were creating exactly what you're describing and it was

so good.

They say, no, this is our competitive advantage.

And so now they're public, this is 10 years later, I think they're publicly traded with

a $12 billion market cap.

So if you look up wish, you'll see that they raise money under context, it's either context

or contextual logic.

And the founder is Jack.

Have you seen this guy?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, I'm going to send you.

What, Pete, the founder?

Yeah.

Yeah, I have.

I've chatted with him via email once or twice.

He's an oddball.

He's very quirky.

You can see in his Instagram picture here.

I love tech founders that are Jack, by the way.

I find it hilarious.

I remember one time there was the Facebook F8, like the annual conference Facebook does.

Facebook is run by some of the smartest people in the world, but they're not like the most

athletic or well-rounded or great public speakers necessarily.

Right?

Like, yeah, there's a lot of dorks there.

And for some reason, I was sitting there and I was watching this and I was like, I noticed

every single exec that got up there was Jacked this year.

I was like, who is the personal trader?

What is the program that they all got on?

Who's putting creatine in the milkshakes at Menlo Park?

What is going on?

Because there was one year that literally everybody was Jacked.

I have nothing more to say in the story, but it was-

They probably have a doctor who lives with them.

Yeah, don't they have in San Francisco?

Don't they just own one of the buildings?

Where they own all the execs have apartments in the same building in SF so that when they

do need to come to San Francisco, they kind of have like an apartment there because their

office is not in San- No, Facebook, the office is not in San Francisco.

So like Sherry and a bunch of the other execs, I think have like a bunch of penthouse condos

in this one tower.

So the tower is like 25% occupied by Facebook executives who are not there except for like

two days a month when they go to San Francisco and then they use this as their-

And it has like a Botox clinic and like a TRT clinic and like an HCH clinic.

Did you ever watch the show on Netflix called Selling Sunset?

Oh yeah, those guys were the worst.

Did you watch the show?

Did you see the Botox thing that they did?

Yes, the worst.

I can't stand it.

I thought that was so funny.

That is everything I'm against.

People who haven't seen it, they're real estate agents.

They try to sell these like luxury properties and they're always trying to drive foot traffic

to their open houses and they're open house, they're tactic, they're marketing tactic to

you know, most people it's like, oh, it's an open house, okay, we'll have wine, maybe we'll

put some cold cut sandwiches out or some cheese, cheese board.

And this one girl's like, fuck that, I'm going to make, I'm going to get all the real estate

agents to come to this.

I'm going to do Botox and burgers.

So she had a doctor there giving Botox shots to the agents for free who wanted to get Botox

at the show.

And I was like, wow, what a different world than I live in that this is even a thing.

I don't think I know a single person who has Botox.

Maybe maybe I didn't.

I'm just oblivious to it.

But like, I've never heard anyone in my social circle ever speak about getting plastic surgery

or Botox.

They don't talk about it.

I don't think they're going to talk.

Do you know anyone that gets Botox?

My sister had Bell's palsy where that paralyzes your face and so she had to get it.

I almost had to get it.

Not for that.

I'm saying for like people who do it just for this like aesthetic, you know, just for

the look.

I don't know.

They don't tell me about it.

No, I don't know anyone.

It's like most gimmicky marketing thing you've done that's like, you know, your equivalent

of the burgers and Botox marketing stunt.

Well, when I ran Southern Sam's, Winner's as big as a baby's arm.

If you put your baby's arm in the hotdog bun and put mustard on it and took a picture,

you got a free wiener.

I love that one.

I have one that's like that.

When we were doing the sushi restaurant thing, you know, it's all it was a delivery

only.

So there's no, there was no storefront.

It was a cloud kitchen.

So how do you get people to hear about your restaurant if there's no storefront?

So I was like, all right, we got to make a splash.

So we were based in downtown Denver.

I was like, okay.

And I was just tired.

I used to go, you know, I would go into a skyscraper building or just kind of sneak

past the concierge guy.

I would go in the elevator and hit one and get out and I'd start talking to the front

desk lady of every floor of like a 80 floor building or whatever.

And I got tired of that.

So I was like, okay, what's a, what's a better technique than me going door to door selling

sushi essentially?

And I was like, of course I'm a huge idiot.

Like we didn't even try Facebook ads.

This is like, Facebook was out.

This is 2010, 2011, like we could have done Facebook ads.

We just didn't even know.

And so what I did was there was a nearby beauty school, you know, like where you learn to

like cut hair and like do stuff like that, I guess, forgot what they're called, cosmetology

schools.

And I went in and I said, hey, do you do any of your girls like sushi?

And they're like, oh my God, we love sushi.

You know, it's like bringing candy to a four year old's birthday party.

And I was like, I will give you guys free sushi for life.

If you put these shirts on of ours and you go downtown and you basically like, you know,

the free hugs campaign, do the free hugs campaign and then tell, like just basically like while

you're wearing our stuff and it worked, it was amazing.

Like businessmen would come out of the thing and they'd be like free hugs and like they

would give these guys a hug, the guy would like, you know, start blushing and be like,

did I just cheat on my wife?

And then he's like, no, it was just a hug.

What's the deal?

And it's like, oh, we're doing this because we're part of this new sushi restaurant

that's in town.

You guys should totally order from it.

The further away me and my ugly face got from that campaign, the better it worked.

Like these girls were amazing and we had like way more sales from that.

That's a pretty good one.

Think how it worked though.

All right, we're at the hour.

So I'll bring you, how did we do?

How did I do?

Because I think I did that episode.

I know.

I'm sorry.

Be honest with me.

How did I do?

Sam did as much as I did this episode.

Fuck, for real, I feel horrible.

I'm just not, I'm just, I hadn't, I just feel like I'm a little drunk.

So tired.

Sean, you were in A, but overall the episode was like a B-ish.

Fuck, that means I was a C though.

You coasted to a C. A C is a passing grade, man.

You got through.

All right.

I'll bring the heat next time then.

All right.

Sounds good.

I gotta run.

All right, bye.

See ya.

Bye.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.