My First Million: #132 - A Simple Email Hack That Generated Millions, The World's Cheapest Billionaire, and A Simple Startup Idea No One Has Done

All right.

Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now, HubSpot

just launched a Shark Tank rewatch podcast called Another Bite.

Every week, the hosts relive the latest and greatest pitches from Shark Tank, from Squatty

Potty to the Mench on a Bench to Ring Doorbell, and they break down why these pitches were

winners or losers, and each company's go-to-market strategy, branding, pricing, valuation, everything.

Basically all the things you want to know about how to survive the tank and scale your

company on your own.

If you want to give it a listen, you can find Another Bite on whatever podcast app you listen

to, like Apple or Spotify or whatever you're using right now.

All right.

Back to the show.

All right.

What up, Sam?

We got a Thanksgiving special episode.

Other people would take the day off, but that's not how we roll.

What's going on?

To be honest, we were one minute away from taking the day off, but Sam said he's got

something big to discuss, so I'm excited.

Wow.

I don't know.

I don't want to.

It's a little different, but...

You can't unhype the hype.

I already hyped it.

Okay.

So, Sean doesn't know about what I'm going to talk about.

It's not big, but we'll see if you have anything to say about it.

I wanted to talk about a couple of things, okay?

So I'm really interested in a few things.

Family wealth.

So there's a book called Family Wealth.

Not that I'm even implying that I have family wealth.

I'm just...

It's just a topic that...

The idea of how someone can have something and pass it down...

Anything that lasts 100 years kind of interests me.

Right.

The Parr dynasty.

Yeah.

And so I like buildings that last a long time.

I'm really reading about wealth.

I'm also interested in books written about business that are already from crazy successful

people who don't care if you read or not.

So not people who get rich running about getting rich.

Yes.

So there's one book that I came across and it's by a guy that's incredibly fascinating

to me and it's called How to Be Rich and it's by J. Paul Getty.

You know who that is?

Well, Getty Images.

Is that who that is?

No.

That was his grandfather.

So this is why...

Okay.

That's why it's interesting.

It's because Getty Images is a...

Getty Images...

I don't know what they're worth.

They could be worth like 20 billion dollars.

They do a billion a year in sales.

I don't know what that's worth, but it's a...

Because it's a privately held company.

And I think Getty Images is just a part of it, right?

They have like kind of a broader empire.

That's right.

That's why it's interesting.

So let me tell you the background about the family.

So J. Paul Getty died in the 70s and in the 60s, the 50s and 60s, officially in the 60s,

he was the richest man in America.

He wasn't quite like the Jeff Bezos, but kinda.

He didn't have that same...

The world didn't view him kind of in the same light.

He was known as being a lot more stingy and a lot more greedy, whereas Bezos definitely

gets that.

But a lot of people are like, yeah, he's so smart.

He's brilliant, whatever.

He's a little bit different, and it started because J. Paul...

I think people call him J. Paul or John Paul.

I don't actually know what they call him.

I call him J.P., but yeah.

J.P. Getty, I think.

I don't know what they call him back then.

But anyway, his father was an insurance guy who somehow worked his way up and hit it big

by buying an oil field for a relatively small amount of money, and it worked out so where

the father died with around the equivalent of $100 million.

His father died with a net worth of $10 million, which now is about $100 million, so incredibly

wealthy.

And before he died, he gave John Paul $10,000, which is about the equivalent of $150K, and

John Paul bought an oil field at age 21, which turned into multi-million dollars.

And then what he did was he learned Arabic, and he was the first kind of American to go

over to Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia was founded, I think, in the 30s.

The modern day Saudi Arabia founded in like the 30s, 40s, I believe it's brand new.

And J.P. made buddies with the king.

I guess that's the proper title.

The shake?

Okay.

I think he's a king.

It's a monarchy.

I don't know what they call a king.

Whatever.

Sorry if you're from Saudi Arabia.

I'm trying my best.

And he spoke Arabic, and they're like, oh, this white American speaks Arabic, so he's

like trying to be respectful.

Right.

My god.

Yeah.

And so he went over and he made these amazing deals, and he's one of the first people

to go into the Middle East and discover oil, and then he started buying oil companies and

eventually bloomed into Getty Oil, which is now out of business, but at the time was like,

it was one of the biggest companies in the world, and he owned 50% of it.

So incredibly interesting, but let me explain a few more things.

So he was known for being super frugal and a huge asshole.

And growing up, he partied, and the rest of his family, like his kids and his grandkids,

if you look up what happened to him, like the reason I got interested in this is just

the other day, like two days ago, his grandson just died.

And like, it's kind of like the Kennedys, but worse, all the great, like so many dozen

plus grandkids and sons have died from drug overdoses.

They love getting fucked up and they love drugs.

And JP's grandson was kidnapped in Italy and held for ransom for $17 million.

They cut off the grandson's ear, sent it to him and goes, because they said 17 million.

And he goes, no, not a chance.

So they cut off the ear and sent it to him, and he was like, fine, I'll do like 16 five.

I'll do it.

Like he like, he goes, I'll do 2.2.

And the reason he came up with that is that's like the tax deductible number for, I always

think about that with ransoms, like why 17 million?

Why not like all the money?

Because is there really any amount that the person's not going to pay a coin with him?

Yes.

So he like would hang up on the negotiators and he goes, nope, sorry.

He was known for being so frugal and he also had five wives with five kids in his home.

He had huge mansions.

He would collect art, but in the home, it was all fake art and he would only buy shit

that could make money.

So he bought art, but he wouldn't keep it in the home and he would not.

He would launder his clothes by hand.

He would reuse paper all the time.

So he was famous for sending you a letter and like only the backside was written for

you because the front side was like his note taken for something else.

And he had a pay phone in his house and he would get one of his wives.

He had a handicapped son, I think a blind son and the wife, the mom would spoil the

kid because she felt bad for him and he would like yell at her like, no, no, no, no, no,

like you're spending way too much money on this kid.

He was famous for that.

This is amazing.

A birdie just posted something.

So I'm just going to read it out slower.

It's what you said, but it's just the details.

So when the kidnappers finally reduced their demands of three million, Geddy agreed to

pay no more than 2.2 million, which is the equivalent of 12 million today.

This is the maximum that is tax deductible.

He then lent his son the remaining 800 grand to get to the 3 million at 4% interest.

The grandson was found alive on December 15th.

It's crazy.

Like he was like, this guy was nuts.

I believe that every great man is also a bad man.

Like in order to like be great, you're going to piss off a lot of people.

This guy took that way too far.

So I don't agree with what he said, but I still find him incredibly fascinating.

Super interesting, very mysterious, polarizing figure.

He was like rich in money, broke in wisdom, like this guy was like mentally destitute.

Yeah.

He was a real piece of crap, but you know, there's something you can learn from everyone.

And he has this book on called How to Be Rich.

And it's interesting because the Geddy's, okay.

And then the Geddy grandson started Geddy Images.

So he was the grandson was successful, but in general, a lot of the house money, yeah,

he was totally.

So yeah, I definitely started on third base and got a home run or whatever the phrase

is.

Have you heard that phrase?

Born on third base.

Yeah.

I've heard that one, but I don't know about the third base.

Oh, no, it's he was born on third base, but thought he hit a triple home or something.

Yeah.

That's a good one.

Something like that.

So anyway, I love your quote, by the way, the ever great man is also a bad man.

I love that quote.

That's like in my top five like lifisms, like if I was going to boil it down, like what's

the core philosophy?

I think that would be in the top five of the core philosophy.

Yeah.

I don't think I made that up.

I mean, someone has said it.

I don't know if I, I think I've used that terminology on my own, but it's a very common

idea, which is like, like, let's say you love Obama, like he's still had to kill some

people.

So they definitely didn't like him.

So like everyone hates you, although you got to do the 2020 remix to make it like politically

correct.

It's got to be like every great day is also a bad day or something.

It's true.

Yeah, every, every great person is also a bad person.

There you go.

That's much better.

Anyway, this guy, John Paul, it's so fascinating.

And I just wanted to bring it up because it's interesting to me, but also I wanted to get

your opinion on a few things.

Okay.

So first Billy of the week, I suppose, then goes to John Paul.

We should actually do the Billy of the week.

I think I enjoy every time I learn about a new billionaire, I learned something, something

interesting.

And so, so I think we should do it religiously.

All right.

We'll do it next week.

It's going to be Bernie a claystone.

I think that's how you say his last name.

The guy who started formula one, Google that guy.

Go ahead and Google that guy.

Look at what he looks like.

Okay.

Let me do it.

My he's five foot five.

I think with a bull haircut, echoes, maybe I don't even know how to say his last name.

I've read his biographies.

He's cool.

And he'll he has six foot tall, smoking hot wives who are like a G.

He looks like like Professor McGonagall from Harry Potter, but the man version of that.

Yeah.

You got to like look up this guy.

If Dumbledore combined with with with her, this is what he would look like.

So that's the one we'll do next week.

But JP, what do you think about this guy kind of in you see what he looks like?

He looks like scary and like he looks like a miser.

Is that the word?

Miser.

He looks like a dork to me.

He doesn't look scary, but if I was sitting at a poker table, I would not want to get

into hands with this guy.

Like, I know this look.

This look is the look of a person who knows they know more than you about whatever you

think you know.

And so so I definitely I think it's fascinating.

I didn't know this story.

I only knew Getty Images.

I knew they had some family wealth, but I didn't know from what.

So I find that interesting.

What I really love is it's actually kind of like while you were talking, I was like, OK,

this guy just sounds ridiculous.

Sounds like, you know, like I said, like wisdom, poor, money rich, but that's OK.

I think there's there's still some interesting stuff in there.

But the part that always stands out to me is I have this theory about like branding or

especially personal branding, which is like a lot of people want to be known as whatever,

right?

I want to be known as smart.

I want to be known as bold.

I want to be known as whatever.

In this case, I want to be known as frugal.

This guy is a great example of you don't just say he's frugal.

You say that, you know, when his when his grandson was put up for ransom, he only agreed to

play, you know, he offered 10 percent of what the kidnappers wanted, because that was the

maximum that was tax deductible that year, right?

Like it's the anecdote that gets the person to think, man, this guy's cheap, man, this

guy's frugal.

And so this what you told me was like 12 straight anecdotes that the anecdotes that painted such

a vivid picture of this person about being like both like really smart and clever, but

also really frugal and also like a real asshole without you didn't even need to say any of

those words.

But like the stories just tell that story.

Just like Amazon does a great job of this, too, where they were like in the early days

it'd be like, you know, they don't buy desks.

They would go to the hardware store and get these like doors because they were cheaper

than desks and they would just come in and they would, you know, so if you go into the

Amazon office, every desk is a door, which by the way, when we started our company, we

did that.

It's way more expensive to do doors cost more expensive than an Ikea table.

Exactly.

Because it's a PR story, right?

So the lesson to learn from this is that you can manufacture these.

So I'll just give people a little tip.

I did this exercise.

I have this exercise called the three pillar exercise.

I'll do a video on it sometime to explain how it goes.

But the short version of it is you write these three words, three words that you want everybody

to know you are and one word that you want them to all know you're not.

So Sean is blank, blank, blank, and he has not blank.

And then the test in the game is, can you just tell us, you know, three, right?

Three little anecdotes under each one.

And if you just said those anecdotes, would the person have this conclusion about you?

Right?

So like, for me, I wanted to say that I was bold, right?

I was going to a job interview.

And so I made this game up and I was like, all right, I'm going to make sure that I'm

going to have five interviews lined up today with people in this company.

When they go and debrief about me, I want them all to say the same things.

That guy was blank, blank, and blank, and he is not blank.

And so I wrote bold as one of those, one of those blanks.

And so I was like, all right, how do you, how do you make someone see that you're bold?

How do you make someone believe that you're bold?

And so I started looking into my past, like, are there stories of me being bold that I

could drop in or, you know, mention during the interview that would make them think this,

right?

And so the one I thought of was when we were doing the sushi, we want, we had this idea

for a sushi restaurant, never made a sushi roll in my life.

But I was watching TV, watching the Food Network, and I saw this sushi chef on TV.

And right then and there, I Googled him and I cold called him and he's a chef in LA and

I pitched him to join our company, right?

And like people were like, whoa, that's like a bunch of act like there's a bold action

you took.

And so I had like three under each.

And so when you were telling this story, I was just like, looking at these anecdotes

and if you go to his Wikipedia, it's these same stories that you're talking about, like

he washes all his clothes by hand.

Right?

What does that mean?

That doesn't mean anything.

It's probably a dumb thing to do.

But like, man, for the brand of like, rich guy who washes all his clothes by hand himself.

Okay.

Frugal, like emphasized, you know?

And so once you start to realize that little hack, that little storytelling hack, like the

branding hack, you'll see it everywhere.

Anytime a brand is trying to tell you some story, you know that they're just using an

anecdote to build up some word that they're trying to like associate with themselves.

I think that's a great exercise.

I'm going to, I'm going to do that later.

Five guys does this, the burger, the burger chain, they say, we have no freezers.

All our food is, you know, all our burgers are fresh.

We don't even have freezers in the restaurant.

And so they, they say this and like, you know, in reality, they just, you know, their, their

supply chain model is a little bit different.

It's not that there's that much fresher than anybody else, but they say this so that you

think that their burger tastes different than anybody else because it's fresher.

Right.

And so we used to do this with our sushi restaurant.

We used to say, you know, all of a, we started off saying our salmon is never flash frozen.

And then like later, like this, the chef was like, yeah, why do you guys say that?

And we're like, because people want fresh fish for sushi, they want it to be like super

fresh.

And he's like, you know that the freezing is like really critical for salmon, like kills

the bacteria and stuff.

Like it's, you should really not serve anything that's not flash frozen.

And we're like, oh shit, okay.

So that's actually a famous copywriting technique.

So there's this guy named Joe Sugarman.

He's a great copywriter.

He's real famous.

He's probably in the seventies now.

And he wrote a really great ad for, was it Casio?

I forget what it was for a watch company and like not an expensive watch, like a $59 watch.

And I think he was one of the first people to use the phrasing space age metal is in

this watch.

And then something like courts movement, I think it was courts move it, I could be wrong,

but something like this.

And I'm almost positive that like that space grade, like I don't think that means that

not only does it not mean anything, I think all watches like it's like, that's like a

very normal thing.

Exactly.

Same with, I think it was it courts movement, something like that.

It's like, well, like they all have that.

And he was like, yeah, but like the people don't know that, you know what I mean?

Or like, if someone's saying like, you know, this is like polarized sunglasses, it's like,

yeah, but like every sunglasses polarized.

16 hour aged pork or whatever.

Right.

It's like, they're all like that.

And so that's like a really good, it's called, it's like based on this idea of the knowledge

complex, which is when you're trying to sell something, you have to remember or you have

to keep in mind that most people have no idea about the story or like the insight behind

this.

And so because you know, you think other people know and you forget that this simple shit

is not simple.

Right.

We had a mentor from college, this guy, Dan Ariely, who wrote the book predictably

irrational.

And so we went to him and we were like, Hey, we're, you know, you're super smart.

We're starting this sushi thing.

What do you think are some things we can learn from your experiments that will teach us about

like that will help us with our sushi chain.

He goes, well, first thing is you have fast food sushi.

Right.

People, people don't want, maybe may not want fast food version of sushi.

They may look at that very differently than fast food burgers and fries, you know.

And so he goes, he goes, I would learn from the wine industry.

And we said, what?

He goes, wine is just grapes.

He goes, but the wine industry will tell you that it's not just grapes.

And he was basically saying like they built a whole dictionary of terminology.

There's like, you know, like certifications you can get to be a sommelier.

And there's like all this mystique into what the different types of wines are and why one's

more expensive than the other.

It's like, how do you charge $6,000 for a bottle of grapes?

Because you create this whole lexicon of words and knowledge around what is amazing versus

good versus great versus outstanding versus, you know, you create all these like tiers

and you have to educate the market first and then you decide which tier your brand is going

to live in.

I thought that was pretty fascinating.

I like that.

Yeah.

And I buy into that as well.

So to wrap up Getty here, he was, I think of a lot of words to describe him, a lot of

negative words, but the guy was crazy intense, like super intense.

Do you think that these people who are the best so in the field of business that like

likely is correlated to who are the wealthiest?

Do you know any examples of people who are not intense at all, who are up there?

Or does everyone who you know, we might have a couple billion their friends amongst us

or at least they will be in the next 20 years if just with compounding interest.

But I think we probably do have someone in that range.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

We there's a handful.

So I would say yes, all of them carry an intensity.

Some are very vocal and some are some are not.

Some have a lot of ethics and others are like ruthless fucking killers.

So I think I've seen differences on that.

Like I've definitely seen a difference in who's willing to like cut their partner's

throat versus somebody who's like, never, I'll never do that.

That's not a differentiator.

But the intensity and the like maniacal focus I have seen as like, I have never seen one

who's not.

In fact, I've told you about about Michael Burch, who I worked with at the idea lab that

he had started called Monkey Inferno.

And so Michael had made it rich.

He had sold his company for $850 million.

So by the time I met him, this was like four years, five years after that sale.

And I was like, this British dude is chill as hell.

Like he, you know, he's funny.

He's really like engaging.

He's really thoughtful.

The court culture was like nine to four, 30, you know, every day.

And then Fridays, we'd stop at three and kind of have our happy hour and like all the shit.

And like he was traveling all the time and he was just very laid back.

And so I thought, oh, this is a good example of someone who, you know, I guess you can

make it while still being, you know, a good dude and not a workaholic and not a not a super

Uber intense demanding guy.

And then our COO is his sister-in-law Lucinda.

And she, she was also the COO when he was doing Bebo, the startup that he had sold.

And so I asked her, I was like, was he, you know, the same way during that?

She goes, Oh no, it was like a night and day difference.

Basically she's like, we had to beg him to just come home at night.

Like he just wouldn't leave the office.

He was a maniac.

Like he would just always be thinking about it, always be working on it.

And you know, he wasn't hiring people.

He was just trying to do it all himself.

Like it was crazy.

He worked crazy, crazy, crazy hard.

And now I just don't think he doesn't, I just don't think he wants to do that anymore.

And to the point where he like, he had like a pretty serious surgery four months after

they sold because of like the toll that the stress had put onto his body and, you know,

and all that stuff.

So even the one example I thought I had found of like a not Uber intense person, turns out

I was totally wrong.

And he was just now he was in chill mode.

So there's this.

So what I'm about to say, we'll tie exactly into that.

And it ties into the premise of this conversation, which was I like reading books of people

who they don't really, they don't need to make money off the book.

There's this great book called how to get rich.

Again, it's a really poorly titled name, titled book because it's pretty tacky, but

it's by this guy named Felix Dennis who started Maxon magazine.

But before that he, the Maxons and the music magazines of Britain, you know, he was like

a Richard Branson, but more vulgar type of person where he's pretty eclectic and had

his hands and a lot of stuff, probably worth 800 million, I think what he died.

He did drugs, a lot of drugs and he died single.

And he wrote that he's like, if I could do it all over again, I would have worked my

ass off till I was 35.

Hopefully I would have made enough money that I could last for a little while and live comfortably.

But then, and then I would quit because I was like a boxer who was punch drunk.

I like, I had to go back every single time.

I'm like, he's like, I actually, he, this guy actually wrote a biography on Muhammad

Ali.

He was like, I was like that.

I like, I should have retired, but I kept going fighting and I just looked like an idiot

and I regret it all and it hurt me.

And he ended up dying from cancer because he was a big smoker and alcoholic and drug

guy.

And sometimes I wonder like, what should you just grind as hard as you can starting at

a young age and hope that you can get something relatively young?

Or do you know just that you're going to be punch drunk and just keep going?

You know, like I think about that sometimes.

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So there's what's it called?

There's two like schools of thought.

So one is that, which is like, you know, you hustle really hard at the beginning and then

you sort of shift gears as you go.

But I see that like Jack Ma, the founder of Alibaba, he has a phrase like this where he's

like, in your 20s, you work hard for someone else in your 30s, you work really hard for

yourself and your own company in your 40s, you invest and in your 50s, you give back

or something like that.

I don't know the exact chain of events, but it's that idea.

And so there's some people that definitely advocate for that, definitely seeing a lot

of people who just, you know, you get addicted to the medicine, you can't get off of it.

And you just keep going and there's like a never ending more.

But it does seem like there's like another way, which I think you hear less about these

people because they're not extreme athletes.

So because they're not extreme, they're not in the news, because they're not extreme,

they don't go for the eight billion or 80 billion dollar outcome.

They go for the like eight to 18 million to 80 million, you know, over time, get rich

slow tactic.

And so I think that there are some people who play the game a different way.

And their way is basically they work on the stuff that they're interested in.

They don't care too much about the money, but they work really hard at it.

And because they're interested in it, they become some of the best, they become the best

person at that thing or one of the best.

Because we're one of the best, they make money, right?

Even the best plumber in the world is a multi-millionaire, right?

So like, it doesn't matter which field you go, if you can get to the top.

Just a really good one in a local area.

Right.

I personally think that there's like, the better method is not the like, let me work

super, super hard for till I'm 35 and then come to a cold stop and then figure out what

I want to do with the rest of my life.

I think that's the extreme athlete path.

That's like literally what most athletes do is like they were there, you know, Michael

Phelps until they're 33 and then they retire or their Kobe Bryant and they go until they're

37 and then they retire and they have to figure out what the hell life is after that.

Personally that's not the path for me, I've realized.

But I do think that for extreme success, it does look like these Olympic style athletes

where you are, you devote your whole life, you sacrifice like crazy, you sacrifice your

personal life.

All that's good stuff.

Like Elon Musk, he's got what, five, six kids, three, four wives, you know, like for

all his like, for however much you idolize him in the business realm, for by most people's

definition, he's totally failed in the family realm, right?

You know, sleeps in the office 200 days a year, like, I don't know if that's life, right?

Doesn't seem to look like the healthiest guy, so he's not winning in that front, so I just

think that there's like, there's an extreme cost to extreme success and I haven't personally

seen outliers from that.

There's a Getty in his book, he said, I hate and regret the failure of my marriages.

I would gladly give back all my millions for one lasting marital success.

Right.

And like, you know, I'm trying to think like even like Warren Buffett, for example, seems

like a very even keeled guy, you know, has had long sustained success.

I don't, I think he got divorced.

I don't think his marriage ended up working out, which is okay, you know, no harm there,

but that's not my goal.

My goal is different, so I don't want to follow a blueprint that seems to be leading to that.

Doesn't seem like the healthiest dude in the world, but he's got good energy, so you know,

that's cool.

He's lived a long time, he's got a lot of energy, so I think that's good.

I don't know.

I'm of the opinion that the extreme, extreme success takes a big toll out of the other

areas of your life.

It's kind of like the laws of physics.

It's like, energy's not created to destroy it, it's just transferred.

And if you're going to transfer the energy it takes to become like mega, mega, mega successful

like that, I'm talking about like billions and up.

I definitely know people that have $100 million that live a very balanced life and have been

able to not like, they work hard, but they're not like, they're not working 10 times harder

than anybody else.

I do too.

And I know a lot of people who, so like, well, you're kind of disproving your point.

I'm just saying for the top, the absolute top, like their company is the leader in an

important category, they're in the billions category in terms of wealth and they're, you

know, they have that sort of like, that's the top to me.

Well, I want to also acknowledge that like, I know people that are hardworking and smart

and I hate when, and I used to do this, but I don't anymore, like we have to acknowledge

that there's definitely a lottery ticket type of luck thing there for some of them.

For sure.

For some.

For sure.

Like there's a bunch of people who are like, they're going to crush it no matter what.

But they had, they maybe had a little lot of ticket that in one of the, you know, they're

playing a ton of different hands and it's like, well, one of the hands, it just kind of worked

in their favor.

Like they likely would have won something in all those hands, but that particular one,

it just was kind of magical.

Yes, exactly.

I always say the fact that they succeeded was not luck.

The amount that they succeeded had a big degree of luck.

Like I sold my company, you're going to sell your company someday.

Whatever that outcome is, we have friends like, I could just take Michael's example again,

right?

Like sold that company for 850 million.

The timing was perfect.

Social networking was at its absolute peak.

Facebook was too expensive for anyone to buy.

My space had already sold for 500 million.

So they were the only, you know, the only girl left to ask out to the dance.

And so they got like a very high bid from a big bidder.

And that same company a year later might have sold for half the amount or less.

And not to disrespect Michael.

That acquisition is, that and Mark Cuban's acquisition are considered the two worst acquisitions

of all time.

Right.

That's not the fault of the seller.

That's the fault of the buyer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, but I guess that that's what I mean, like, but he would have been successful either

way and he already was actually had built multiple smaller successes.

The first one for like single digit millions and the second one for a little bit more.

And the third one, you know, like it was going to always be successful.

Now was he always going to end up kind of in the 800 million category?

Like, no, I can't.

I can't say that.

That's true.

Well, what do you want to talk about now?

I blue, I don't have much.

I am.

Okay.

So I have a couple.

Well, what I mean is that was my, that was what I had prepared.

Okay.

No, no problem.

I saw something cool.

I don't know if you saw this, but the guy who started cruise, this guy, Kyle vote put

out this video.

Did you watch this video that he put out, which is a video of 75 minutes of their cruise vehicle

driving through San Francisco and it's him talking to Sam Altman, who's the CEO of Open

AI right now.

And was kind of like the head of my combinator and he's kind of like, I would say he's like

probably the number one like young gun of Silicon Valley yet young being relative, like

just like kind of like powerful people under 40, I think Sam Altman is probably number

one in Silicon Valley.

What do you think of that?

Is that, is that right?

Yeah.

Maybe, maybe Zuck.

I don't know how old Zuck is, but.

Oh, well, Zuck, Zuck's, you know, he really is Zuck's like 35.

Yeah.

So, so, so.

Okay.

Sam Altman is maybe, maybe the top five.

Well, he's like, not the richest, but he's like, got his hands and everything, but give

the background of this Kyle guy, because he's actually more interesting, I think than

Sam Altman.

He actually was the co-founder of, or co-founder, I think, I think he would be considered the

co-founder.

He's definitely the early engineer, the first engineer at Twitch.

And so he helped start Twitch and he is a brilliant guy and actually Emmett made a good

point about this recently.

So somebody said, somebody was saying this like kind of common startup wisdom, which

I think is actually true, but there are always exceptions.

So some, some guy was like, Hey, you know, sometimes when you want to disrupt an industry,

you want to be an outsider.

Right?

You want to be from within the industry.

Cause then you think just like everybody else in the industry, sometimes an outsider who

doesn't know anything is the best person to disrupt it.

I think the guy was kind of making a stance, not saying sometimes he was like, that's usually

who does it.

And then Emmett made a good point.

He goes, you know, for technical products, I actually think it's the exact opposite.

I think for technical products, it's the person with deep domain expertise.

That's actually the best person ability.

He goes, Kyle have been trying to build self-driving cars since he was in high school.

Like Twitch was like a detour for him.

And he's like, you know, the timing wasn't right back then, but he had been thinking

about this and working on this and fiddling with this for a long time.

He was the probably one of the five people on earth who should have started a self-driving

car company was Kyle.

And so he starts crews, sells crews for a billion dollars to GM, like 12 months or something

into the journey.

Two years in something like that.

Yeah.

Before basically there's no self-driving cars on the road, but like, you know, sells the

technology to GM because these big car companies, they're very worried, right?

Like a car company needs self-driving because once cars are self-driving, people don't need

to own cars.

Once you have self-driving cars everywhere, you'll just push a button.

A very cheap Uber will come to you essentially because there's no driver inside.

So it's super cheap.

And you just take it from wherever you want to go to the next spot and then you hop out

and it keeps driving around.

Like you're not going to need to have your car and park it.

You know, cars are parked, I think 95% of the time doing nothing, just like a depreciating

asset that's just idle.

So buying a car is a horrible idea.

So that's why GM and others are trying to buy their way into self-driving.

So anyways, it's been multiple years now, seven years or something like that.

I don't know how long since this company's been around.

And so he just released this video and it's a cool video because they're just like two

absolute nerds nerding out.

And if you want to look it up, the guy's name is Kyle, what is it, Vaught?

Yeah.

Vote or Vaught?

I don't know.

I see.

V-O-G-T.

So Kyle, V-O-G-T and then type in the word Sam Altman.

You'll see it.

I'm watching it now.

It's 75 minutes of autonomous driving with Kyle and Sam Altman.

This company I think is worth like $20 billion under GM.

It's worth a ton.

Yeah.

I don't know how that works.

Like they raised funding as a subsidiary.

Right.

They've raised $7 billion or something like that now.

And by the way, this guy's like one of those total ultra achiever nuts.

Like he's the one who did that seven marathons in seven days in seven different countries

or seven different continents or something crazy like that where you basically run a

marathon during the day, then you hop on a plane and you fly to the next country and

then you do it again and you do that for seven days straight.

He did one of those recently, right?

So like if you're trying to feel bad about your life, look this guy up.

But anyways, I love this video and I only understood what 15% of it because I don't

know shit about machine learning.

I don't know shit about self-driving cars.

Like I don't know the difference between deep learning and, you know, like whatever the

hell else like ultra deep learning and any other technique that there is and they're

talking about stuff like that.

But I just love watching people nerd out about shit and self-driving is like one of those

game changers.

It's like a one way door.

Once we walk through it, we'll never go back.

And so it's going to happen in our lifetime.

It's one of these like like the internet happened in our lifetime.

This is going to be, I think, like I'd say the internet cell phones and this.

Those are the three big ones in our lifetime probably that we will see.

I think check it out.

It's crazy how good the car is in self-driving.

Now, of course, these are all demos and sometimes they kind of like, you know, like cheat a little

bit in the demos to make it look good.

But man, this thing is impressive.

Do you know this guy, Kyle?

I never met him.

No.

He used to be like, I find him to be one of the most interesting people there is because

I think that like sometimes when I imagine like these like gritty, tough people, like

I think of like a tough guy.

I think of like a formidable person who I never like, oh, I don't want to be enemies

with.

I think of like a tough looking person, right?

Like tattoos or like, like I think of like an MMA fighter or something.

And then I see a little like, I mean, he's not like that dorky looking, but he's like

a small kind looking.

If you told me he sells insurance at a small company in the Midwest, I'd be like, yeah,

that makes sense.

Yeah.

Like he doesn't particularly look like a killer.

I mean, like, you know, by the way, I'm surprised people don't make fun of us for this because

we always judge when we hear about these remarkable people, we have this like instinctual reaction

to their looks and we talk about it.

Everybody has it.

When we talk about it, we're like, look at this guy, this guy looks like a fat rich

guy.

And it's like, this guy looks like a, you know, like a dork or whatever.

But I'm surprised we don't get called out for this.

Like, have you ever seen the guy who created Ethereum?

Oh, of course.

Yeah.

When I see that guy, I'm like, yeah, you look like you created Ethereum.

Like you look like the part.

He looks the part.

I literally bought a shit ton of Ethereum early on, not super early, but early enough

where right now I'm looking good because I saw this guy and I heard him talk and I was

like, okay, I didn't understand pretty much any of that, but I'm pretty sure this is like

the next duck.

So I'm just going to like place a bet, you know, seems like this guy, I have a hard time

believing this guy is going to fail in life.

I think this little super genius who's like really obsessed with cryptocurrency is going

to make some shit happen.

Exactly.

And then when I see bros with abs and tattoos who are doing ICOs or whatever those crypto

things were called, I'm like, oh no, stay away from that.

It doesn't matter what that person says.

They should not look like that.

They should be dorks.

And it doesn't take much.

You can make money just doing that.

But yes, but this guy, it's so funny because he kind of breaks the mold of what we were

talking about earlier of intense.

I don't know if he's intense or not, probably.

Yeah, of course he is, but he looks like just a gentle, nice person.

And yet I think the word genius is thrown out too much, a person like this definitely

has to be genius IQ, genius level at many different things.

And I follow him on Instagram or something where he did his marathon in seven days.

Yeah.

Seven days.

Seven.

Seven.

Seven.

Seven.

Wow.

Like how courageous and bold must this person be in order to do something like who is crazy

enough to think at the age of 28 or however old he was or probably younger to start a self-driving

car and now like the founders of GM or the CEOs of GM are like, well, Kyle, like what

do you think we should do?

It's just like audacious.

I think it's the right word.

I just, I really, I just love these audacious people.

So he exactly, I don't know anything about him.

Might be, might be smart.

Might not be.

I mean, obviously he's smart, but I don't know if he's like a super genius, but what

I will say is not knowing the person, you can learn a lot just by the fact that he took

some very interesting swings.

Which early on was not like a sexy place to go work, right, uh, Justin TV was not a sexy

place to go work.

It wasn't like a clear big market, uh, wasn't a big company.

It wasn't making a ton of money.

It wasn't like, you know, a smart person like this can go get any job they want.

And to go work at Justin TV was because it was an interesting challenge, right?

It was like doing what they were doing with live video at that time when the infrastructure

of the internet was what it was.

That took some courage and it was an interesting swing.

It was an interesting swing to be working on.

Same thing with self-driving, right?

Like crews, there wasn't that many self-driving car companies at the time that he started

crews and it was an interesting swing.

And so I got to give respect because I think that this guy took some really interesting

swings.

And if I want to do something more, like if I, if I think about my own career, I want

to take more interesting swings.

I think that's a lesson to learn from this dude.

Yeah.

So I had the video on, it's playing in the background.

It's definitely amazing.

I don't understand how a car can get all the data that this video has.

It's pretty amazing.

I guess they're using some type of radar or something.

Yeah.

So they, the car basically has a combination of camera sensors, LiDAR, which is a long

distance like radar essentially, and then normal radar.

And it has the combination of all three input sources to create essentially like a map of

what's going on in the world.

And so for self-driving, you need to create a map of what's around you, you need to predict

what every, what they call agents, what every other thing around you is going to do in the

next like five seconds.

So you have to make a prediction and then you have to make a plan for what you're going

to do based on that plan, that based on that prediction.

And then you have to do it, do it.

And so that's just constantly happening in a car.

And so like in the self-driving car world, there's like this religious holy war of like,

do you need LiDAR or do you not?

Everyone thought you needed LiDAR and then Elon came out and was like, LiDAR is stupid.

It's expensive.

He don't need it.

Cameras can do everything.

And so that became a big fork.

Almost everybody took the LiDAR path and Tesla took the camera only path.

And the LiDAR people said camera will never work.

And the camera people said LiDAR is a fool's errand.

And they were all very vocal about it.

And now we're going to see whose technical decision was correct, which is actually very

interesting because if you ever read the book, I think it's called PayPal Wars.

Have you ever read this book?

I've heard of it.

It's a great book.

I really like this book.

So it's a book about the founding story of PayPal from one of the guys who was like,

I think employee 15-ish at PayPal.

So most people don't know this, but Elon was the CEO of PayPal.

So he didn't start PayPal.

He started x.com.

X.com was also trying to be what PayPal was doing, which was like an internet bank basically.

And they merged.

When they merged, Elon became the CEO.

Elon was the CEO for a while.

And then when Elon went on vacation, he went on like a seven-day vacation, had a coup,

and they basically kicked him out.

They went to the board and they said, you need to get rid of Elon now, and they got rid

of Elon.

Because I think he didn't want to sell or something.

No, no, no.

Well, in the book, at least, they talk about it was a technical decision again.

Like, I'm sure there was many factors, a lot of pressure on the company in general.

But one of the big things was that there was a technical architecture decision.

He wanted to use.NET, which is like this one type of infrastructure, and they all wanted

to use this other kind of modern thing.

And to this day, they disagree about which was the right choice.

They ended up doing the other one, PayPal worked, and Elon's still like, no, that would

have worked just fine.

And so him and Max Lemchin had a huge butting of the heads about that, and then Peter Thiel

became the CEO.

So who's right?

With this Tesla stuff, I'm so uneducated with it, but a lot of people who I speak with

say that the self-driving Tesla stuff is pretty bad.

There's two ways.

Again, nobody knows.

Nobody knows until you pull it off.

Because what a lot of people will say is, yeah, this works in most cases, but most cases

is not good enough for self-driving because you're going to kill people if you can't do

all cases.

And so they'll say, yeah, cameras work except for in bad weather, because when it's rainy

and your camera starts fogging up, you need LiDAR, you need radar to be able to detect

stuff.

And so that's like one of the arguments, for example, is that, yeah, cameras good enough

most of the time, but most of the time is not good enough for this thing to really be

autonomous.

And Tesla says, no, we're going to do it.

We're going to do it by the end of this year.

Now, they didn't pull it off this year.

His timelines are always wrong.

So I have friends that are pretty deep in the space, and the opinion has shifted from

most people thought Tesla was on a dead man path, dead in path, and now most people would

agree that Tesla is the furthest ahead.

I shouldn't say most people agree because it's just a bunch of random opinions.

But from what I can tell, a bunch of smart people now agree that Tesla is ahead because

they are the ones that have humans driving cars around everywhere, collecting all the

data, also all the map data, all the city data, all the lanes data.

And because a human is driving, they're getting trained, their system is getting trained by

so they run in what's called shadow mode.

So basically while you're driving a Tesla, self-driving is predicting what it would do.

And then the driver is driving, the self-driving is checking based on what the human did.

Like, oh, human did something different than I would have done, noted.

And then the engineers can go look at that and all those differences get noted.

And so a lot of people think Tesla is getting better because they have the most data.

And then other people think that Tesla is reckless and that Waymo or whoever else has

the better tech.

But we'll see.

Somebody's got to show it.

I definitely want Elon to be wrong some of the time.

He's right too often.

No person should be right that often.

Yeah, I can see that.

And he's become a little too smug for me.

Oh, he's super smug.

I like.

I think it's cool to be a shithead sometimes, but he's kind of a, I respect him a lot and

I like him a lot.

I also think he's a douche.

He was also super wrong about coronavirus.

And I think that was like another one he was really, really smug about and then has proven

to be completely wrong where he was like, oh, it'll be gone by April and, you know, very

just Trumpian and like, you know, saying the worry about coronavirus is stupid and stuff

like that.

And, you know, has been wrong on pretty much all friends.

And he got it.

Yeah.

We want to keep going.

Yeah, let's do it.

Let's do Brooklyn and Brooklyn and tactic.

This is just kind of a, this is a tactical one.

So this shot it shot it to people who like operational tactics.

So my guy, Ben showed me this thing that Brooklyn and had done last year.

It was Black Friday, right?

Black Friday is in a couple of days, biggest e-commerce day of the year.

And he showed me this thing that Brooklyn and had done, which I thought was pretty cool.

And they basically emailed all of their customers.

And they said, they basically emailed them a whoops email basically.

So it was like, it was a forwarded email from two people inside the company, like the head

of marketing to like the junior marketing person was like, yeah, look, we like, we enabled

the code, you know, Black Friday 20, 25 for 25% off should be ready to go for Black Friday.

But it's live now, but we'll announce it on Black Friday or something like that.

And they forward this.

And so there's a, they sent an email to the whole user base and the email was basically

the reply of the two, these two people replying.

And it's kind of like, it looks like, and the subject line is like, you know, re, you

know, re Black Friday, like as in regarding Black Friday.

And so they sent, and then they were like, oh my God, they sent a follow-up like, oh

my God, oops.

So sorry that, that, that was not supposed to be sent.

But like, you know, whatever, we'll honor it.

And they get this huge rush and this huge spike in sales because people feel like they

got something that they, that they didn't, you know, they weren't supposed to get.

And, and they went and rushed in and bought it before it got.

And so we, so Ben was like, he shared it with me and we were like, let's try this.

So we did this yesterday.

And so we did it with my wife's e-commerce store.

And so we sent out an email to all the customers.

Did it work?

It worked like a charm, dude.

Like it was the biggest sales day in the company's history.

It was awesome.

And basically what we did was same, same idea.

So sent out a code to, we did it a little bit differently.

We sent it out to a small number of people and then we went and said, and then they posted

it on Facebook.

Like, oh my God, guys.

Did anybody else get this email and the screenshot of it?

And so then we commented on it, like, hey, this was a, this is an error.

Like we told our developer to fix it, but you know, with Black Friday is really busy.

Like it'll get fixed soon.

But like, hey, ladies, like, I guess in the meantime, you know, go crazy, go shopping.

And so people thought, oh my God, this, I wasn't supposed to get this and it's going

to get fixed soon.

So we like turbo charged it by, by adding that, like this, we're going to fix this

bug today.

But like, you know, while it's up there, go ahead.

And people, I'm going to do that today, I'm going to do that today.

Yeah, do it.

It's going to work.

You know, they didn't make that up.

The first time I saw that was Chubbys.

Chubbys did that about four years ago.

I remember Chubbys did it.

Chubbys is like a short company and it was like from their accountant Dave and their

accountant Dave was like saying like, you guys, you cannot send this email to everyone.

This is going to bankrupt us.

Right.

That's a good one.

I'm going to do that.

I'm going to like literally right after this, I'm going to do it.

Perfect.

Let's see.

Let's see how much time I got again.

Where do I find that?

Did someone?

I'll send you an image of it.

It's not like that.

Well talked about.

I'm putting up a blog post about it.

So I'm going to talk about it, but this would be great.

How did you format that in your mail provider?

I'll show you.

We just made it like a plain text email that has the, you know, like when you see a forward

email, you can see the trailing email.

So we just had the trailing email and then our email and then it just got sent.

But did you actually like send it to one?

Like did you and your wife talk to each other in Gmail?

No, no, no.

We just like, we just made it look like that.

We just took an email like format and we could have actually emailed it, but we didn't need

to.

We just like copy pasted whatever.

And so that must have only took a few minutes.

A few minutes.

Yeah.

Great.

Tens of thousands of dollars.

Awesome.

In a day.

It's great.

Here.

Abray, you just linked to it.

Yeah.

Brooklyn.

There it is.

That's, that's the one.

This is written up in architectural digest, which is probably why most people haven't heard

of it.

I like these little tactics that kind of work once and then, you know, they get saturated

and then you got to move on to the next one.

But I like doing them and sharing them with kind of people who, who like to like to use

them before they get, they get abused.

Okay.

I'll stick on.

God, I'm looking at this now.

This is like the greatest thing I've ever seen.

So I'll, I'll do another e-commerce thing.

This is actually going to be kind of boring, but I think there's an opportunity.

So here's a free idea for somebody.

You know, the website maker card, card.co.

No, it's like a, or it makes like mobile friendly websites.

Yeah.

It's like a page kind of, which are mobile friendly.

It's like a super simple website builder.

So I really like it.

I've used this for a bunch of my like random projects.

If I want to make on personal website, I use card.

Like to me, it's simpler than web flow.

It's simpler than square space.

It's like faster and simpler.

It can't do everything that everything can do, but I don't need everything.

I just need the basics and card does the basics really, really well.

So a couple of things.

So I've met the founder of this, by the way.

I think he's awesome.

Yeah.

Just a guy living in the Midwest, built this as a side project, started to make some

side hustle money and then just like it's just grown over time and it's pretty, pretty

great business.

And so I was, I was looking at for e-commerce.

So in e-commerce, you have these events, like let's say Black Friday, and you want to make

a landing page or like you, what do you use for your landing pages?

You use like Adobe Spark or some shit like that, right?

No, for landing pages, just WordPress or ClickFunnels.

Yeah.

We're quick.

ClickFunnels.

Exactly.

So most marketers use like ClickFunnels or, you know, there's a whole bunch of different

landing page, you know, tools out there.

Unbounce.

Unbounce, exactly.

Unbounce the pages, there's a lot of good stuff.

E-commerce I think needs, somebody needs to build the ClickFunnels for e-commerce.

That is basically, it just connects with your Shopify.

So you use the Shopify as the back end, but on the front end, it lets you really, really

easily spin up these one page, mobile optimized, basically card for e-commerce.

And everyone's going to be like, oh, that already exists.

No, trust me, I tried all of them.

They all suck.

And there's a difference between something not existing and something not being done

well.

This is something that's not done well yet.

And see, it's two Rs, C-A-R-R-D.co.

So the big ones in this space are like Shogun, Netlify, there's stuff like that that like

is what they call headless commerce, which basically means your store is made in Shopify,

but your front end that the customer see, you can use a bunch of different, you can

use it if you want.

Dude, I've had the same exact problem.

Yes.

I've had this exact same problem.

So often do I have this problem.

I'm like, I just want to use Shopify for the back end, but I want to use ClickFunnels

to design my pages quickly.

Exactly.

So even ClickFunnels, but somebody needs to make the most user-friendly one.

And if you want to see an example of what's really user-friendly one, look at Card.

And like, I think somebody needs to make Card pre-commerce and I think that person will

print money because every e-commerce site is constantly just trying to do two different

things.

Make ads, send e-mails, send e-mails, make ads and then make landing pages that actually

convert the traffic into buyers.

And you don't want to make new Shopify templates.

It's like way too much work to do that, to like use a different theme and like switch

your store.

It's like way too complicated.

And so you just need to be able to spin up offer pages, deal pages, sell certain inventory

that you're trying to move, launch a new product line and just make that the focus of that

page.

It's so simple.

It's so simple.

I've had the same problem.

And if somebody can truly say, and it's DME, DME everything you say that does this and

most of them are going to be like, this is not simple, this is not good.

But if there actually is one, please send it to me because I need it.

This problem is bad.

I've had this exact same problem.

I dig it.

I totally agree.

I use Zapier or Zapier and like WooCommerce and it's like, it's all duct taped together.

Same thing.

I agree.

I would love to use.

I don't know why there's no good solutions.

I completely agree.

Okay.

The last thing that I wanted to do before we go, I don't really know where to go with

this, but I'll just say it since we talked about Getty Images.

So stock photo, stock sound, stock video websites have done pretty well historically.

I just think they're great businesses because the people who use them keep coming back to

them.

They're like kind of designers or like professionals that like just keep needing the stock stuff

and like the bigger your kind of database insert, the better your supply, the more defensible

your business is essentially because you have the biggest repository of stuff.

If I want to go find a certain sound or song, I got to go to Pond5 because Pond5 has just

the most variety to choose from.

So they become like the category leader.

AI has kind of changed this, right?

So artificial intelligence kind of changes.

So there's all these little demo projects where it's like, look, this website plays

songs that are generated by AI.

Like the song you hear when you refresh this page has never been created before and will

never be created again.

The AI is just making up songs and they're actually like pretty good.

And what's it called?

The song one, these are a little demo projects, but like here's another one for faces.

This person does not exist.com.

Oh, I've seen that.

That's great.

It's basically like, hey, you need a stock photo of a person.

Look, this is an AI generated person.

This is not a real person, but it looks exactly like a real person.

If you just go to thispersonsisnotexist.com.

I love that.

Right.

But it got me thinking like, dude, this means that somebody can basically disrupt all the

stocks, the stock websites because you can just programmatically generate anything anybody

searches for.

You can create, you can have the computer basically make 500 variants of whatever they

search for based on their keywords and then they'll pick from them.

And then you're like, cool, those are all saved and like you can create like a huge

database of stock, whatever images, icons, sounds, videos, whatever it is.

And you can programmatically generate AI based stock website and you don't have to pay anything

to the photographers.

You don't have to pay anything to the video makers.

So your margins are going to be way better because you have no supply side fees to get

the content.

So I think there's something interesting there.

I actually, I agree that it's awesome, but I actually think it would be a shit business

because there's no now maybe because everybody can do it.

Now there's no defensibility is like the only defensibility is like, do customers know you

and are you high up in search, you know, like maybe that's the defensibility at this point.

But there's, I don't know.

There's something there like the technology can now do a thing it couldn't do before.

So that means there's businesses to be made.

I would totally not want to be at first is like, yeah, it's awesome.

I'm into it.

Now I'm like, oh, I would never want to start that because it's like starting out brain

and when there's tabula and they both do the same thing and it's a race to the bottom.

So you just going to make prices the lowest and then they got to merge.

Yeah.

I think still the customer relationship matters the most.

So like that is a problem.

But I don't know.

There's, I think there's something there.

I'm not sure exactly what it is.

I've been thinking about these stock websites a lot because I think they're well, we talk

about it a lot.

I've always said I like stock photos.

We talked about Getty images.

We've in the past, we've talked about not Flickr, but what's that one?

It started by a guy in New York who's like, I stock photo or no, he like owns.

He's part of the Knicks now or they like, I forget his name, John's.

His name is John Orranger, I think.

Right?

Okay.

I don't know what that is.

It's a Shutterstock.

Shutterstock.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So these have been great businesses historically.

Maybe now they're not going to be as great because you can get disrupted by this sort

of thing.

I've also been thinking about like, where do you need stock stuff that's not this?

So there was a recent one.

Video.

Well, video, there's a few like, but I'm thinking like kind of even more on the edge.

So let me find this company that I DMed the founder and I was like, yo, I got to invest

in this.

So his name is Alban and Sketchfab is the name of the company.

Have you seen Sketchfab?

Yes.

I've used it a bunch of times.

So it's a platform where you can publish a 3D model.

So 3D, if you go to their website, the first thing you see is like this Nike shoe.

That's like, you can rotate it in all directions.

It like looks awesome.

It looks realistic.

This is like a rendering.

And so people can, 3D makers can upload their stuff like here, I've made a door, I made

a table that you can use in your whatever and you could buy and sell them.

So it's a marketplace and their traffic has been growing.

This is like a very good company, I believe.

And so I'm trying to invest in this, but I think that this is like, and they're going

to be the category leader of this.

And there's the funny tweet was like, somebody showed that Google tried to like compete with

them and Amazon tried to compete with them.

And like, if you search for like common things like Tesla or a car on both of those engines,

the Google one shows like zero results and the Sketchfab one shows like 300, right?

They're just like dominating this market right now.

And so I think there's some niche things.

There's some niche things that are for different types of stock items that are like not just

photos and sounds, but I don't know, 3D objects is a good one.

So they've raised $8 million, $9 million, are they making any money?

I believe they're profitable as of now.

I believe that was, I think that was on the tweet, I might be wrong.

That's a great one.

That's such a great one.

Yeah.

That's great.

I'm 100% about to go do that email thing.

All right.

Let me know how it goes.

And then, yeah, we'll swap notes.

Okay, we're out of here.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

If you're not in America, then happy Wednesday or Thursday, or whichever day you're looking

for this.

Thank you.

Yeah.

If you're not in America, go buy some mac and cheese and mashed potatoes and eat them.

It's allowed.

Yes, it is.

All right.

Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.