My First Million: #104 - Why You Should Be Studying MLMs

All right.

Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now, HubSpot

just launched a Shark Tank rewatch podcast called Another Bite.

Every week, the hosts relive the latest and greatest pitches from Shark Tank, from Squatty

Potty to the Mench on a Bench to Ring Doorbell, and they break down why these pitches were

winners or losers, and each company's go-to-market strategy, branding, pricing, valuation, everything.

Basically all the things you want to know about how to survive the tank and scale your

company on your own.

If you want to give it a listen, you can find another bite on whatever podcast app

you listen to, like Apple or Spotify or whatever you're using right now.

All right.

Back to the show.

We're back.

It's my first million.

I'm Sean, and I'm joined by Sam.

On this episode, we talk about a bunch of different topics.

We debrief our Tai Lopez experience.

We have a bunch of ideas around trade associations, licensing popular brands and using them in

funky ways.

Sam got a speeding ticket and has an idea around bleach radar detectors, and then we

just have a couple of stories and frameworks around coming up with new ideas, such as the

little trick I use with MLMs.

So it's a good episode, me and Sam, and hope you guys enjoy.

We're live.

We are live.

Before we get into ideas, we got to recap, right?

Yeah, I think we should debrief.

So we recorded it on Thursday, went live on Friday.

I got a ton of messages.

We had Tai Lopez on.

So listen to that last episode.

What did you think, Sean?

I think I actually felt like my outlook was similar to, I think, how most people messaged

me afterwards, or at least it felt that way, which was, I thought it was a semi-interesting,

I thought it was an interesting episode.

I thought it got interesting later.

I thought the beginning, he was kind of monologuing and doing his thing.

He wasn't really saying new stuff necessarily, but I thought it got interesting.

I think he is a total character and I'm fascinated by him.

I sent you this tweet he put out yesterday, which is like, he took a selfie in the mirror

and he's like, he looks like the, he looks like someone from the Incredibles.

He's like super, super jacked, which I couldn't tell when we were doing our recording.

I didn't get that feeling at all.

I did a little bit.

You could see he looked fit.

Yeah, he looked fit, but like, dude, this picture looks crazy.

It was just added to the, like, just how hilarious of a character he is and how over, like, over

the top, larger than life in many ways.

So anyways, I thought it was interesting.

I thought he, you know, was pretty open.

I thought, yeah, he does this thing where he kind of like redirects conversations towards

what he wants, which is fair, like most kind of successful persuasive people I've seen

have this talent.

He uses that talent a lot, but I thought he was fairly open.

I thought he was down to answer any questions he didn't.

We've had people come on and are like, I can't talk about that.

And, you know, blah, blah, blah.

He didn't have any of that in his, in his, in his talk.

And then the other thing was the people who hated him before still hated him, people who

loved him before still loved him.

And then the people on the fence, I think, lean towards, he's a smart dude.

He's interesting.

I like him.

I like him more now than I did before.

That's how I read it.

I think that you in particular, I told you this when I was texting you, you did a really

good job of pressing him.

I didn't really press him so hard.

I, um, I think that someone once wrote this review on the podcast that we congratulate

ourselves a lot.

So I'm always trying to be aware when I do it, but I would say you did a very good job

of pressing him.

I think that I would have, we probably both would have been even better if it were in

person.

It was a little bit hard to, uh, interrupt him when he was speaking with, because there

was one, a few times where we both wanted to say stuff and we accidentally had a mute

on or something like that.

And so I wish we could have done it in person, but it was cool.

I got, I got dozens and dozens and dozens of like messages from people who are, um,

I was shocked.

We're listeners.

And I thought, I was like, Oh, wow, this is cool.

This was good.

Did you get a lot of messages?

I did.

Yeah.

I got text messages that were like, Oh my God, my, my bullshit radar is going, is beeping

on like crazy.

Uh, for, you know, for little things, like you wouldn't share his age and it's like,

it's one thing to not share certain numbers, but like when you don't share your age, like

it just reinforces this belief that way, are you kind of shady?

Which I just found funny.

I don't even understand why he, he wasn't sharing it, but whatever.

And then other people were like, like some people did these really insightful recaps

where they were like, they wrote blog posts or they tweeted, I retweeted a few of them.

But one thing that that was cool was people were very like reflective of, okay, I felt

this way about it.

Like, you know, where do I stand?

Uh, and, and what does this mean about me?

And like, what parts can I give him credit for?

What parts do I feel, you know, he was kind of overhyping.

And I just thought people had like an introspective, some people had like a very introspective response

to it, which I thought was kind of, I don't know, interest.

It's not what I expected.

We never really had that.

I never felt that with any other episode.

I felt pride because I think that like in the world that we live in right now with the

election coming up and everything, we live in a very polarizing environment.

And I'm really proud of the audience that in the brand that we're building in the community

and the listeners and ourselves because we are all pretty reasonable about listening

to different perspectives and different ideas and not being too harsh and understanding

that there's two sides to every story.

And I felt really proud about that where there were some people who I'm really good friends

with like Andrew was like, yeah, I'm still, I, he, our friend Andrew was very vocal where

he was like, yeah, uh, I disagree with you guys entirely.

That's cool.

Wonderful.

Uh, it's okay to have friends that disagree.

You know, in general, even people who disagree were like, I disagree.

I understand your opinion though.

And I think that made me very prideful.

I felt wonderful.

Yeah.

I feel good about that.

And the other thing I actually don't think we did a great job pressing them.

The reason why is I didn't do a ton of research.

Like a lot of people who really don't like this guy, it's because they've looked into

a whole bunch of things.

They've read all the Reddit forums.

They've watched the YouTube tear downs and like they know more info.

That's not.

I really wasn't interested in tearing the guy down or like doing investigative journalism

that really wasn't what was interesting to me.

I sort of just assumed going in, these guys are pretty talented marketer.

He took advantage early on the YouTube platform and he did what a lot of people do.

He sold, you know, kind of a dream and he probably, you know, his content was probably

good, not completely original, but who cares?

He curated good content, gave it to people.

If you actually applied that in your life, it would have helped you.

If you didn't, it wouldn't have helped you.

Maybe was kind of aggressive on certain pricing tactics or like, you know, certain things

may have crossed the line on certain areas.

I don't really know.

I don't personally, that was less interesting to me.

Just like during the convo, I was like, you know, people get all up in arms.

Did you rent the Lambo?

Did you?

Yeah, that was bullshit.

Who cares?

Who cares?

I personally just don't care about that.

And so I think some people who cared about that felt like, did you let him off the hook?

You guys didn't look into enough, but it's just, I didn't care about that.

That's not what was interesting to me.

I would have somebody on here who's a total internet scammer or somebody who's a hacker,

somebody who hacked a Bitcoin exchange.

That doesn't mean I think they did a good thing, but I'd be fascinated to talk to that

person and understand who are you?

Why do you do this?

What's cool about this?

Are there two sides to this story?

What's your point of view?

You know, like I'm just a more of an interested person unless I'm not trying to be the cops.

And I think some people wanted us to be the, you know, the cops and sort of water bored

them.

And that's just, I wouldn't have done that to anybody.

It's not really what I'm interested in.

Yeah.

I didn't really care about the whole leasing the cars thing.

That didn't matter to me.

I will say though, one thing that's fun about that.

So whenever I hear of someone interesting, I always type in their name into Google followed

by the word house.

One way that you can figure out if someone's legit is by their real estate holdings.

And if they're a big deal, typically their home purchases come up on Google, which is

a fun.

And I'm, you know, that grant card go and die.

What's the grant card?

Don't.

I don't know how I feel about him, but he has this private jet.

And I noticed that the seats have his name embroidered into the seats.

And I'm like, oh, shit.

That's like a legit.

I'm like, holy moly that whatever he's doing, some, he's got some cash somehow.

So that's like a funny topic that grant on here.

I, he, he used to use our product a ton.

So I've been around.

I've talked to him a bunch of times.

Let's do it.

I would like to have either have his number.

I definitely have his email.

So I think we can get him on my friend, or Ramit Sethi, who we also have to get on.

He was like, dude, he, his name is embroidered on his seats.

He's like, that's a legit.

He owns that jet.

And I thought that was funny.

And then last thing was Ty kept saying Silicon Valley, a huge pet peeve, but that's okay.

Whatever.

That's not important.

But what he, something he kept doing and our friends from Silicon Valley kept doing

this where they were like, I would say Silicon Valley sucks for this reason.

And then our Silicon Valley friends were like, you internet marketers suck for this reason.

And I'm like, you guys are all like kind of the same.

They're all this.

I mean, it's, it's like the same shit.

It's like, Ty definitely was quirky, like a little Asperger E. A lot of our friends

are kind of Asperger E. Like they all like say the same, like their strategy is the same

thing to charge a lot of money for quality products and to hold companies forever and

do this.

And it's all the same.

They're all the same.

They all agree on a lot of the same stuff.

Yeah.

I don't think, I don't think they're exactly the same, but I think a similar common than

they think.

The second thing is they're both hypocritical about each other, right?

So like, for example, uh, when Reddit got started, the founders said, you know, we went

on, we created 30 different accounts and we would be commenting on all the different posts

to make it look like there was activity, right?

That was their fake until they make it strategy, Airbnb sort of, uh, famously got, got exposed

for early on, they would scrape Craig's list, pull the listings automatically without the

permission of the homeowner posted on Airbnb as an Airbnb listing and then email under

a fake name, Jenny, uh, to different people being like, Hey, I would love to rent your

place, but do you guys use Airbnb?

Like I prefer Airbnb.

It's much safer over there.

And that's how they grew awareness is sort of a black hat technique.

There was no Jenny.

They did this without permission.

And like, these are like some of the Airbnb as one of the best brands in Silicon Valley.

It's like kind of a awesome company that people look up to and like, you know, it's admirable.

And maybe Tai Lopez, you know, maybe he has his own versions of either fake and until

he makes it or, you know, charging in some kind of like, you know, duplicitous way or

whatever.

I don't know.

There's, I have tons of examples on both sides where both sides have a ton of dirty laundry

internet marketers do and so do Silicon Valley companies.

So I think it's sort of hypocritical to be like really virtuous, which I think was his

point was like, there's a lot of virtue signaling in good old Silicon Valley.

But yeah, whatever.

I don't know enough about Tai Lopez.

I feel like, you know, you're going to feel you're going to feel about it.

I feel like we did a decent job of it.

I was interested in it.

And I don't hate the guy or think he's like, you know, the worst thing ever invented like

some people.

I would totally hang out with him.

I would absolutely hang out with him.

Did he text you?

By the way, if you ask me for your number, yeah, I was like, that's kind of cool.

You're texting Tai.

He's like some guy that like, he said seven out of 10 young men in America knew who he

was.

And I bet I believe that.

Yeah.

You know, I think, I don't know.

He's a character.

What's, what's there to hate about this guy?

If you hate him, whatever, you have your reasons to hate him.

If you love him, you have your reasons to love him.

I don't really care either way on that.

My personal opinion is I think he's talented.

I think he's a character and I think he's an over the top character.

And I find that fascinating.

I think he has some tells where he overhypes and he quotes Buffett and he quotes, he's

just a quote machine to kind of give himself credibility.

Like I'm doing this thing.

Well, here's a quote from Socrates that tells you why I'm doing this thing.

And like, there's a talent in that, but it also reveals a little bit of like, well, can

your actions and can your logic just stand for itself?

You know, there's, that's, that's usually a masking technique that people use to do

that.

But like, whatever, I don't know.

I'm cool with him.

I think, I think he's an interesting dude.

Well, we, we've milked it for all it's worth.

So it's good on us.

You want to talk about ideas?

Yeah, let's do it.

I'll bring one up first.

Okay.

So Ryan Beagleman, our mutual friend tells me about this all the time and I have been

interested in it a little bit.

What do you know about trade associations?

Anything just that they exist and that they, they sort of have this like very beautiful

business model where they're charging everybody for kind of like pretty simple amount of value.

Yeah.

It's like good straightforward value and I didn't know too much about them, but they're

kind of interesting.

Trade associations are kind of a business where it's like, everyone knows what they

are or has heard of one, but you don't actually think about how they like came to be.

And nor do you think about like creating a new one, but I think you can.

And the reason I'm thinking of one in particular is it's called the society for human resource

management.

And I discovered it because the CEO is like a friends with Trump or something.

So somehow this came up like on the news that the CEO of the society is with Trump for this

and I was like, just Google it.

And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

So it has 350,000 members of this human resource management company and it makes $150 million

a year in subscription revenue.

And it's beautiful.

Another one is there's ones for all types of different engineers.

So like, I don't even know the type of engineers.

Could there be like bridge building or whatever the mechanical civil.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, you know, whatever it is, there's a bunch like that.

There are so many trade associations and I actually, there's this one trade, so there's

one email list that I used to use to post my job in when I needed an office management

manager.

It was called the OrgOrg.

Have you heard of the OrgOrg?

Yes.

This is for office managers, right?

Yeah.

This young woman started it.

I think she was like really young and it was just like an email list.

That's all it was, but it was like super effective.

And when I, when you hear the OrgOrg, I'm like, oh, this is like some silly email list.

It's not that big of a deal.

And then I see this business, the society for human research management.

I'm like, oh my God, this thing could actually probably be huge.

So anyway, kind of a cool business model.

What do you think?

You said the word beautiful earlier.

So I call these beautiful businesses a beautiful business.

When I say it means it's just so elegantly designed to just be a cash cow.

And a beautiful business is one like this where the product is incredibly simple.

The lock in is huge because you're going to join the big trade association.

You're not going to join some small up and comer.

So it has this amazing defensibility just in the network effect.

They charge, you know, annual recurring subscriptions and people are going to keep their fees.

They're going to stay a member of the association on the average.

And it's like zero work, zero innovation, zero everything.

And I just think it's like beautiful business and the sort of the effort and difficulty

to reward ratio is beautiful.

So I think you said it absolutely right.

Yeah.

And for anyone interested in this business model, maybe we'll do a deep dive later on.

But they, um, trends, we did one on like peer groups and those are not beautiful.

Those are a lot harder than they look.

But if they work, they're beautiful.

But a lot of trade groups are nonprofits.

So you can research any type of trade group.

And if you Google like for like the name of the trade association, then revenue or name

of the trade association.

And then what's the nonprofit filing number?

Like five, one, three, C.

Yeah.

And if you Google that word, that phrase, or if you Google the trade association filed

by annual report, they all reveal all their revenue expenses so you can be like, Oh, wow.

So this group charges 300,000 people, $1,000 a year, and they charge the company.

It's like, it like gives you the total playbook on how to do it.

So pretty cool.

Uh, so I saw this and I thought that was interesting.

What else could this work for?

And frankly, it could probably work for the same thing.

You could probably just do another HR one.

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Yeah.

Or you could do this, remember that sort of two by two matrix I talked about where

it's like old problem, new problem, old solution, new solution.

So what I would do here is, let's say this is a beautiful old solution is the existing

solution that's proven that works.

I would just look for basically a new problem, basically what's a new market, what's a new

industry or trade that didn't exist, you know, five, seven years ago.

Maybe it's Uber drivers.

Maybe it's Airbnb hosts.

Oh, that's a great idea.

Maybe it's crypto miners.

Maybe it's, I don't know, like whatever, those wouldn't be the best fits.

But Instacart workers, just the gig economy in general, right?

Like maybe it's the gig economy trade association.

And you know, okay, cool.

There's hundreds of thousands of people.

I'm going to apply this old business model that's beautiful to this new market segment

where nobody has taken the pole position as the trade industry, the trade association

leader in that group.

That's a great idea.

How many Uber drivers do you think there are?

I have no idea.

Over a million?

I think there's a lot.

I think there's over a million.

I'm trying to find that for us, but yeah, I think there's over a million.

Wow.

Yeah, that's a cool idea.

The gig working thing is, yeah, that's neat.

That's cool.

Historically, like AARP is like one of the greatest trade, it's not a trade organ, but

like membership groups of all time.

And then it's pretty cool.

I guess it's kind of like a union and that's pretty interesting.

And you know, you can also do this with other groups that like, let's say, traditionally

don't have this.

I would try to find, what are the common characteristics of this?

Is it, you need to have like, let's say a million plus people in the profession, right?

Maybe that's the commonality.

Maybe it's that they all are looking for certain resources.

I don't actually know what value these guys have.

Do you know, like what's the, if I joined the Society for Human Resource Management

or whatever, I know with AARP there's like discounts, but for the HR one, what is the

core benefit I get?

Yeah, I look at that.

I must join.

Well, let me give you like the, what they say is education, certification, networking,

as well as lobbying Congress on issues regarding labor management.

That's what they say.

Now, they also really, where they make a lot of money is conferences.

So a lot of like trade show.

So like, I mean, it makes sense.

If I would totally send our HR person to this, I'm like, hey, there's like this thing.

It's four grand.

It's a two day event.

You want to go and learn best practices on how to, like what's, like for right now,

I'd be like, hey, like remote works a thing.

How do you like fire people remotely and get your equipment back?

Like maybe that's just like a, maybe that's just like a conference topic.

I'm like, yeah, sure.

It sounds good.

If this, if our HR person wanted to go, I would say, yeah, no problem.

And so it's mostly education and they monetize that education with conferences.

Right.

I think it's, I think it's a good to do for us to go say, go figure out, okay, what

is the core?

Is there a common core benefit that the trade association provide?

Maybe it's education.

Certification I know is one, like personal trainers have to do this, where they have

to keep their certifications up to date.

And it's this giant, like essentially a scam where you have to, you just have to keep paying

$120 a year or whatever, just to keep your certification like valid.

And your certification, nobody cares if you have that certification, if they're, if you're

their trainer anyways, they, you know, take one look at your body and then they work with

you and like, that's it.

And so there's certain things that I think are providing less value than others.

But like, again, if you can find some new niche, like Instagram influencers or like

whatever, online creators, Twitch creators, whatever, right?

Like why, why is there not an association if, if you could find one core benefit?

I actually think, okay, so here's a riff off this that I'm going to sound kind of stupid

because I don't really know much about this, but I know enough to know that it's interesting.

Let's take a, let's take a professional like, like vlogger or streamer, right?

So there are, you know, every given month, there's millions of video game streamers,

millions of YouTube creators that are creating.

Now, obviously they're not all successful.

They're not all full time.

They're not all, all making money.

There's like a power law, right?

Where the top X make it.

I think, for example, on Shopify, the, you know, there's, I think 100,000 sellers that

do over a million dollars a year.

There's sort of a similar ratio when it comes to streamers or vloggers on YouTube.

And they don't have health insurance, for example.

And what happens is most of them don't care about it.

They don't use it.

They're younger.

So they, you know, tell 25, 26 or whatever they're covered on their parents thing.

Or they just like, whatever, risk it is weighing it, right?

And so there's these things that churches do called healthcare co-ops.

Have you ever heard about this?

Go on.

Yeah.

Healthcare share programs, I believe.

And it's basically a, you can get healthcare, not through a traditional healthcare provider,

but you can create a co-op within your community, within your church, where you basically pool

money and ensure each other.

You ensure the other members of the church.

This has become quite popular.

I started looking into this market because I think it's one of those like secretly really

big markets.

A huge number of people now are participating in these healthcare share programs that are

done by the church.

And churches have this loophole where I think you otherwise need to have insurance, but

this qualifier, you can do it through the church and you don't have to do it through

traditional providers.

And so they sort of get this work around.

So I wonder, this is like crazy idea, but I wonder, can somebody find a problem like

that for online creators, right?

Instagram, YouTube, Twitch, whatever, and solve one of their core needs such as healthcare.

And can you, can you solve it in one of these like ways?

Like, can you create, you know, create a, because you take an existing church and expand the

model to where it works for them, or could you create a new type of insurance carrier

that will, that will live OTT on top of existing providers, but focus on this, this customer

segment specifically.

I think anywhere there's a new job, I just want to apply old services to new professions

because they're usually pretty immature.

What I'd be curious about is how do like nomadic remote workers, what do they do for health

insurance?

And that's one of these new things.

We, does every company have this or for in October, I don't know if it's just us or

if it's every company, but we're doing, we have enrollment for healthcare soon.

And now that I'm out of state, I don't know, I got to figure out what to do.

And so this is the problem I'm facing.

And I'm curious as to how people who live in Bali, like one of the women who works at

our company used to do, or how people who travel all the time, I mean, I don't know

what they do for healthcare.

I'm very curious about that.

Yeah.

I think, I don't know either again, like I said at the beginning, I'm going to look

like an idiot because I don't know enough about it, but I know enough to know this is

an interesting problem area to go look at.

Anytime lifestyles change, work patterns change, new jobs emerge, opportunity has simultaneously

emerged.

And so that, I think all of these are sort of really, really interesting ones to look

at.

I've also seen a bunch of things fail in this space.

Like I had a friend who was trying to provide the back office for Uber drivers.

He's like, Hey, they need to pay taxes and they need health insurance and they need these

things and you know, company failed and he was like, yeah, it was just really hard to

convince Uber drivers that they needed this.

Like I know they need it.

They didn't know they needed it.

I don't know if that was just his excuse or if that was like legit, the actual core

fault of the, of the problem because fundamentally I believe in that, that idea.

And so I reached out to find out why it failed and that's what he told me.

All right.

I'll give you one more quick hitter.

Okay.

So you know how, so this guy named Tony, you know who Tony Fidel is?

Yeah.

The critter.

Yeah.

So what this guy did, um, was he helped Steve Jobs build the iPhone and, or maybe the iPod,

I forget, and, or both.

And he looked at, I guess what they did was they looked at kind of like things that we

kind of used on a regular basis that many people had and had bad user experience and

they made it sexy and cool.

And he did that with the thermostat.

That is something that most every single American, maybe every American has.

And they actually are a little wonky or, or they're not actually neat.

And he like created this thing and it's like, Oh, well, that's a no brainer, huge market.

And so oftentimes I think of products that are like that.

And I think I found one.

It's not actually a big enough market, but it might be.

And here's what it is.

Um, radar detectors for cars.

I am traveling now.

I'm driving all over the place and I got a speeding ticket and I was pissed off because

I was going 70 or I was going to below the limit and I just crossed, I was at midnight

in the middle of Kansas and I just crossed this thing where it said construction zone

and the speed limit reduced and the guy just got me.

And I was so pissed off.

I was like, dude, first of all, it's midnight and like no one's around except for cows.

Second of all, you, I was going with 68 and a 70 and you just like, that's kind of a bullshit.

So I, I, I don't define it as I went and got a radar detector.

They are so hard to use and set up and I started doing research and some of these companies,

the top one is called unit in it's publicly traded does like $200 million in sales, selling

this radar detector for $500 and I had to watch a 30 minute video on YouTube on how

to set this up.

It was so challenging and I still don't exactly know what it all means, but I was like, how

many of these are sold or like, do you know roughly what the, what the market size is

for this?

Yeah.

So the, the, some of the bigger guys are unit in and I think it's pronounced escort, escort

owns a couple brands and uh, uh, exec at GM was formerly, formerly the CEO, it does like

two or 300 million in sales unit in is a Japanese company.

It's a uni like university and then DN, D E N unit in does like $150 million in sales,

quite profitable.

So it's not like huge, huge, but hundreds of millions in revenue, but probably globally

billions in revenue and I'm shocked at how horrible of a product this is for the $500

that I bought it.

Yeah.

That seems awful.

Um, and I love this.

I love this niche, right?

Because who, who the fuck thinks about this on a daily basis?

Um, but, but clearly, you know, this is a product that's been around for decades and

uh, it serves a very clear pain point and I could totally see how these would be outdated.

I'll give you an example of another one that's like this pools.

So I have a swimming pool now, uh, in my new place and you know, you always, the guy comes

every week and like changes the like chemical balance or whatever to make sure the chlorine

is good.

And he has to measure it using this thing.

So some guy, some founder who listens to the podcast had reached out to, I don't know,

be in my mastermind or something like that.

And I saw what his product was and it was a, I know who that's my friend.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

It's like this floating pool chemical detector, right?

Um, it basically, it's a little, little buoy that floats around in your pool and will constantly

just make sure that your pool's in balance and you can look on your app and you can see,

you know, whether it's good or bad and your, if your pool's in a good state or not, it's

like take this kind of old problem and it's not even like rocket ship, you know, type of

technology that you got to build to make a better solution, right?

Nest is not that amazing.

It's like well designed for sure, but it's not a thermostat.

It's okay.

It's okay.

And, um, you know, it's got a screen and that's the core innovation.

You can control it from your phone.

Um, great.

There's how many other sort of household products could use a little modern, modern

touch ups.

Yeah.

And that, I think about that all the time because I thought the next thing I'm like,

oh my God, that's one of those things where you're like, well, yeah, it seems obvious

now.

Right.

Um, and, uh, this with routers, right?

So they, they modernized the router and, you know, had a decently, a decent exit.

I don't know how well it went for them.

They raised a lot of money, but, uh, they got adoption and that, that's another example

of one of these.

Yeah.

Routers are up there.

I just, I like thinking about that.

Like what are household products that we all use and we have forgotten about.

And I grew up with a radar detector in my, we would, we would always drive to Florida

for 20 hours and we would have one.

And I thought it was funny.

I'm like, that's kind of funny to like build a company just to detect, just to help you

kind of break the law, uh, which I think is awesome, uh, but man, I'm using this freaking

radar detector.

I'm like, oh, well there's, and there's actually like a cult following.

Like there's a lot of people like me who are gadget nerds and who are obsessed over this

and, uh, it's a pretty cool thing.

There's another company that's similar to this that is far more famous.

Do you know WeatherTech?

Uh, no.

Have you heard of WeatherTech?

No.

You've never heard of WeatherTech?

Okay.

They've almost, I would say they have done it.

They've built like, you know how Yeti made cooler, sexy, let's, you, you're, you're gonna

flip a little, little, you know what they made sexy floor mats for a car, floor mats

for a car.

I'm looking them up.

So WeatherTech, they bought Super Bowl ads in the South.

They're popular because it's like, is it the design or is it just that it's like super

high quality?

Or why do people love these?

I think it's both.

Uh, it's incredibly high quality.

It's very expensive.

So it's like, I bought them for my car, I paid $600 and for some reason that made me

like it.

Uh, but it is high quality and it feels like they branded it like an outdoorsman thing.

$400 million in sales, $100 million a year in profit.

And how old is this company?

Is this like a 20 year old company?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is cool.

Okay.

I like it.

This is so like outside of my hobbies, my likes, my business knowledge, I'm like, I would

be the worst person to ever start a WeatherTech type company.

Maybe, but you have a nice car.

Don't you care about having a clean car?

I mean, that's like kind of all it is.

No, you've never been in my car.

My car looks like shit all the time.

I bought it.

I buy a nice car and then my car looks like a closet.

It's just awful.

Uh, all right.

Here's another really half baked idea.

I've been thinking a lot about licensing brands.

My friend Xavier.

Why?

It's Tai Lopez.

No, not Tai Lopez.

My friend Xavier, uh, got me thinking about this.

So he was buying a company, uh, and I'm going to have him on cause he's, he's really great

and he's

I'm an investor in that fund.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Our, our, our good buddy, Siava and Xavier worked together on this and one of the businesses

that they're buying or, you know, taking a stake in has a licensing component to it.

I don't know how much I can talk about it, but it's basically they are, there's, maybe

I can explain it.

I don't know.

Okay.

I don't know what it tells me.

We can't talk about it.

We'll cut it out.

So there's a company that has, um, that sells caricatures.

So like I can go and for your birthday, I can get a picture of you drawn and have it,

have it sent to you.

And what they did was they licensed certain styles and we're going to go try to get exclusive

licenses across several very distinct visual styles.

Uh, and the business does really great.

And so that had, that had me thinking about licensing, uh, the very first episode of the

podcast was with, you know, one of my best friends, Sully.

And what he did was his company, tiny code, they made mobile games, but they would license

big brands.

So they made the family guy game.

They made the Harry Potter game and it was a pretty, that was the differentiator.

They were just like every other mobile gaming company, but licensing popular brands was

their hack to get better distribution and buy in from customers.

And so I started to think, where should people be licensing popular brands that they are

not currently licensing them today?

And so I don't know, really wild idea, but here's sort of mixing two different worlds

together and seeing if there's something in it, um, enterprise education.

So corporate training and corporate education is like, probably the most sort of boring

and stiff, uh, it's like the worst content that gets paid for.

And so I, you know, that seems kind of weird to me.

Like why shouldn't this be better, uh, companies are willing to pay for it.

It could be, you know, it could be interesting, but the, the content chops behind it are

awful.

And so the idea here would be to license popular brands and use those characters and

use those, um, those, those styles to, to do corporate educational corporate training,

one of the two.

So get, can you hone in on this a little bit further?

So you would be the one licensing the, you would pay money for someone else's IP.

Yes.

I would like, let's just go through a hypothetical example, right?

Yeah.

Um, in the tech community, there's this cartoon that's really popular called Rick and Morty.

And, um, yeah, Rick and Morty is a great brand for the people who know it, but it's not

such a big brand that it'd be impossible to strike a deal with them.

And so I would go to the creators of Rick and Morty, the IP holders for Rick and Morty.

And I would say, Hey, I'm going to do a whole safety training and let's say compliance training,

uh, series for big companies, but I want to do it using Rick and Morty characters to explain

the concepts.

And so, uh, I would, on one hand, I would say I'll pay you X for, you know, the royalties

or the licensing fee.

And then I would take that and then I would go to companies like, you know, the company

I work at now, or I'd go to Facebook or whoever, and I'd say, Hey, you have this compliance

training that you need all your leaders to go do, but it's so dry that they hate doing

it.

They don't do it or they turn it on and they walk away from their computer while the video

plays and we make entertaining training videos using characters that everybody knows and

loves.

And, um, you, that's why you should buy from us instead of buying from the guys you currently

buy from.

And that's how I would try to build this business.

I would totally stand out from the existing, you know, corporate training and corporate

education companies by doing that.

That's interesting.

And, um, I actually learn, I didn't know anything about licensing and I, do you want to explain

what Suley did with his company?

Cause you guys are the licensees or licensors.

Yeah.

We are, uh, what would that be?

I think we'd be the licensees.

Uh, I don't know.

You are licensing.

You are paying the money.

You are not the recipient of the money.

No, no, no.

Yeah.

The IP holder, right?

So in their case, they go to, they went to the owners of family guy and they said, Hey,

family guy, huge brand.

Love it.

You guys crush it with TV.

You crush it with, crush it with merch.

You're not doing any mobile games.

And they're like, Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We've thought about it.

You know, we think it can be great.

And they're like, yeah, yeah, but you don't want to get into the business of building mobile

games.

You don't know anything about that.

But Hey, we look at this.

Let me open this door.

Look, those 80 engineers, those guys know how to build mobile games.

We've been doing it for five, seven years, we have some of the most popular mobile games.

Here's what we'll do.

If you license us the brand for a family guy, we will create a mobile game that uses family

guy characters and I'll pay you a $3 million a year licensing fee for this plus, you know,

an extra, you know, dollar for every $10 we make on the game.

And you know, that's a, you know, hypothetical deal structure.

So I, I just read about this, which is why I like talking about this.

There's a company called, I'd read about it through it on a sub stack email newsletter

that I'm on.

Have you heard of MGA?

Of course you haven't MGA entertainment MGA.

Is that the guy who makes those dolls?

Okay.

You have heard of it.

Okay.

So I love that guy.

What's his name?

That guy's a ball.

Isaac Larian.

That's the founder's name.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Isaac Larian.

I believe that's his name.

The world's largest privately owned toy company is MGA entertainment and Isaac Larian owns

it born to a Jewish family in Iran.

He immigrated here.

And so, uh, originally what they did was they, they became a licensee for power rangers,

meaning right some guy, another Jewish, uh, or Israeli, or this guy's not Israeli, but

another Israeli American immigrant created power rangers.

This guy went to him and goes, let me make toys with the power ranger, let me make power

ranger toys.

And I'll give you a large cut of the money.

And he did that for a long time.

And then he goes, cool, but I don't want to pay these guys the money anymore.

I want to be the, the IP guy.

And so he invented Bratz.

Do you remember Bratz?

Yeah.

Bratz dolls, uh, for those who don't know is like Barbie is like ethnic Barbies.

It was like black Barbies, cool Barbies, street Barbies.

Like it was Barbies with like a little bit of an edge rather than the sort of clean cut

image.

Is that a good, is that a good description?

Yeah.

I guess.

I mean, I don't know.

We're not, we're not in their target demo, but, and now their new thing apparently, which

is quite popular.

It's LOL surprise.

Again, we're not going to be able to talk about this.

I know my nieces are obsessed with LOL dolls.

Dude, LOL dolls are anybody with kids knows that you have to buy LOL dolls.

So this article that I was reading, if you have a daughter between the ages of four and

10, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

If you don't meet LOL surprise and the company does $5 billion in sales, they're privately

owned and it's growing like a weed and it started as licensing power rangers and then

they made their own thing.

Pretty amazing.

It is amazing.

Even just the LOL dolls, like we could do a whole episode just on the fucking genius

of these LOL dolls.

It's like a little surprise what you get inside sort of like buying a, you know, a deck of

Pokemon or a pack of Pokemon cards and you don't know which characters you're going to

get inside.

And so you go, you know, it has the gotcha mechanics where you want to keep going back

and buying another one.

And this guy, Isaac Larian is awesome.

His story is great.

We should do a whole thing on that gotcha thing.

Okay.

So let's talk about these surprises.

Have you ever heard of this thing?

I've actually don't know what it's called.

I bet you've heard it though and you'll be able to tell me it's a candle and you

burn the candle.

And at the bottom of the candle is a surprise and one out of a certain number of the candles

have a diamond ring in there where the hundred thousand dollars.

No, I haven't heard this, but I love this idea.

This is the type of idea that I, these are the, you know, I said weather tech would

be like the opposite of the type of company I would start the candle where one out of

every hundred thousand has a diamond ring inside.

That is the exact type of company I would start.

Is it called just there's a diamond candles.com.

That might be just what it's called.

But they like the, the, uh, I think it's okay.

So there's a thousand dollar ring at the bottom of a handful of them.

Who knows if they're even actually there.

Yeah.

It's the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket.

Yeah.

And I just Google it.

There's like tons of surprise.

There's like a jackpot jackpot candles and they do the same for bath bombs.

You know what a bath bomb is?

Yep.

And I guess there's some type of price.

So I love that.

So there's that.

What's another surprise one?

Like a Willy Wonka company, like a Willy Wonka product.

Uh, so mobile games use this a ton.

That's where it like, I have learned about gotcha mechanics.

It's like, if you want to go look this up, uh, look up gotchas G A C H A, I think it's

how you spell it.

It's like the sort of the game mechanics in a lot of the Chinese games, Japanese games.

And so I think it's literally started, I think with, I don't know, sounds kind of dumb.

I don't think I know this exactly, but I believe it was these, uh, like actual sort

of like candy machines, um, that you would put a quarter in and he would turn it and

then you would get something.

And it, you know, it gets you hooked to the sort of variable random rewards, um, where

you're constantly hunting and searching.

It's like in games, they do this with loot boxes.

They create these digital boxes.

You buy, you know, you, you play the game, you earn coins, you use the coins to buy the

loot box inside the loot box.

You've got the new thing or you didn't get it and then you want to open up more loot

boxes and it's just fun to open them up.

And so these are so addictive that some countries outlaw games that use these mechanics.

Uh, I think, I don't know where it was.

I think it was in China or India.

Somewhere they banned games that were using loot boxes, um, because it was, it's so addictive.

It's so effective.

And so some people brought this into shopping and there's, yeah, for shopping, there's a

bunch of other ones.

There's, uh, and a lot of them are scams.

This business attracts a lot of scammers.

Logan Paul or one of the Paul brothers, like had a link to one of them.

They, this company would sponsor all the YouTubers and it was called mystery box and

you purchase it and maybe you get, I don't know, whatever kids like supreme clothing

or something, uh, and it was, I think they got big, but they're definitely full of shit.

Yeah.

But I like this idea of the sort of the dream, right?

Like I buy lottery tickets because I think it's fun to play the lottery.

Um, I love scratch offs.

I think scratch offs are amazing.

Um, they're just like pure entertainment for me.

And um, I think that there's other spaces where, where you could potentially apply these

mechanics that's not traditional.

The candle is a beautiful example of that.

So that's, uh, so we've discovered two different frameworks, which is like household items

that are boring and boring and forgotten.

And you can just make up just a little better and just ugly, like, uh, and that you could

like maybe like three mechanics.

We did trade associations for new, new trades.

Um, yeah, we did, um, the, the household items, the everyday gadgets, uh, that are ugly and

hard to set up and hard to use and don't connect to your iPhone.

Um, that's like a kind of a core, core mechanic.

And then this one is the gotcha mechanics or, or licensing either, either one, either

one could work here.

Yeah.

Oh, we did talk about, uh, licensing, but got the gotcha thing is interesting.

I like candles.

Um, another one that's not the same, but it does involve candles.

Have you ever heard of a hometown candles or something like that?

Yeah.

That's, that's a funny one.

Do you know the guy who, so for those of you who don't know this guy, his name is Ricky

Van, Ricky Van, Neen, I think his wife is, do you remember what's the white girl from

get out?

Uh, I don't know.

Yeah.

You know, I've seen the movie, but I don't know who I was, I was looking at the black

guy, not the white girl.

I don't, I don't know who she was.

Allison Williams, Allison Williams, you know, Allison Williams.

She's like in a bunch of sitcoms.

Her dad is Brian Williams, Ricky Van.

I think his name is Veen or Neen.

He works at Facebook now.

Okay.

He started.

Okay.

So I'm telling this backstory cause it's interesting.

It's like everyone's connected.

I mean, first of all, he was like a dork who started a college humor and he started Vimeo

and he married this Allison Williams woman.

So badass and cool.

Then he got a job at Facebook.

He was where he works at Facebook as some executive, but as a side project, he started

this thing called like home state candles where they make candles that smell like your

home state.

So Washington is probably pine trees, California is probably ocean, Florida who knows.

So he knew this was going to go viral because he was a content guy and he knew that state

themed things sell best.

And so he created like candles that smell like your home state and probably, I bet you

that's a really big business to be honest.

Yeah.

My friend John started something called birth date candles.

So he's the creator of gravity blanket.

He's the creator of the moon pod.

And then his third kind of like invention that kind of worked is birth date candle.

So like Sam, when's your birthday?

June 15th.

So there's a candle for June 15th.

It says June 15th birthday can birth date candle and it has a specific smell and aura

and story around June 15th.

And so you would buy this for somebody else.

You'd buy a candle, essentially that's like their specific birth date candle.

And he started and he started gravity blankets to yeah.

I mean, that's like one of the biggest things ever.

Like one of the most virally, that's like one of the most viral things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's like like the blanket where you wear in the front.

What's that called?

Like a snuggie.

I mean, yeah, it's definitely like a notable, notable product.

It did super well on Kickstarter or whatever.

He came on the podcast.

There's a whole interview with him.

And he talks about the birth date candle as like one of his things.

And it does really well.

Candles in general are huge, huge business.

Like I looked at this business because one of my kind of secret tricks in business is

to try to go find what MLM sell and then sell them without the MLM.

So there's huge MLMs around candles because people love to buy candles and they buy them

recurringly because literally the product like burns to the ground.

And so you need to keep replenishing it.

And so there's, there's huge candles at MLMs, but then there's also huge non non MLM candle

companies.

There's one that looks great.

I think it's called Velipso or something like that.

Velipso.

I don't know.

We have a bunch of in our house and it's just like a candle that comes in like this amazing

looking, you know, packaging that is essentially like art around the house.

And yeah.

So I think these are, I think candles in general are good.

And then if you match popular product with let's say popular tribe, like home state,

I think that's a really interesting way to think about little niche products.

Dude, that is a great idea.

Like I love all these frameworks and ways to get ideas looking at what are the most popular

MLMs.

Yeah.

That is a great idea.

And also all MLMs have to publish their annual reports because of the law because they, you

know, they're, they're basically recruiting sellers and so they have to tell sellers how

much they sell, how much each seller to your cells, all that stuff.

So you can go learn a ton.

I've looked at probably 30 MLMs, you know, annual reports in the last year because because

of this.

What's the most interesting one and why are they all in Utah?

They're all in Utah because it's sort of like Silicon Valley where the talent pool of people

who know how to build these is all there.

But, but yeah, there's a whole bunch of interesting ones and they've range from like kind of legit

to like pretty fucking scammy.

And you know, there's like keto product ones, there's candles, there's skincare that, you

know, like health and wellness is the biggest one, the absolute biggest one.

I'm not sure why I think there's sort of a, you can't prove the, you can't prove that

the thing works or doesn't work when it comes to those things.

Um, when like kind of like hippie-dippy wellness products, um, and that's also what an MLM

mom seller, you know, tends to like, I guess, but there's interesting ones.

There's like a wine club, that's an MLM, there's Lulu row or whatever.

That's a clothing one.

Uh, this is shit ton MLMs, dude, they're, they're, they're crazy.

Well that's a good framework.

I like that.

Um, and I want to give a shout out, apparently Sean told me that the founder of only fans

is a listener and listens to every episode.

So what's up to that guy owner, owner of it.

I don't even know his name, founder, owner, whatever it is, like the, the, the man in

charge.

So what's up to him?

If he ever wants to come on, tell him to come on.

All right.

So that's good.

Um, cool.

All right, Sam, uh, where are you headed to next?

Where's the next, uh, travel destination for you?

Either DC, cause I want to be there for the election.

I think it'd be fun or Asheville, North Carolina, which one, where should I go?

I don't know.

I think Asheville is going to be more interesting.

I think so.

I'm just a little nervous as to lonely, like too small.

Right.

You should go to, you should go to Durham.

Uh, I went to college there.

There's a very, it's a very interesting place.

Is it great?

Great.

Yeah.

It's kind of great.

Uh, like, I think you'll really like that town.

Um, they totally like invested in it and there's all kinds of cool stuff like there's,

there's two universities, right?

There's Duke, uh, that's in Durham, there's North Carolina, University of North Carolina.

That's not far away in Chapel Hill.

Uh, and then there's what they call research triangle park, which anytime there's like

these hubs.

So that's a hub for biotech companies.

Um, anytime there's these hubs, the town gets built out with restaurants and cool shit

everywhere because there's a bunch of like well paid people.

Um, but also it just has like its own little vibe.

It's his own little mill mini Silicon Valley or Hollywood, but it's like for researchers

of biotech.

And so there's just like a different, different vibe just like Utah will have it for MLMs.

All right.

I'm going to turn them then.

Cool.

Um, also I was just curious, um, how's the like, we're now in month six of this quarantine.

Um, are you going crazy or what?

What's happening?

Uh, yeah, a little bit.

I feel horrible.

Do you?

I would say I feel horrible.

I feel pretty good, but, um, I tend to feel good in general.

I'm not really easily, I don't know, I definitely impacted like emotionally and mentally.

I am like, I feel any good stories.

I feel like I'm in fight or flight mode.

And when I, what I've noticed is like, I've said this before, but a lot of people who

live in a lot of people who are in elite cities or be like, Oh, the South is all rednecks.

And it's like, in reality, all cities are the same.

All suburbs are the same and all countries the same.

And so when I'm in like rural California and I, and people are in the gas station, not

wearing masks, I find myself in fighter flight mode and I've definitely gotten into yelling

matches with these people and it's stupid because it's not going to solve anything.

Like no one's, I'm not going to change my opinion and they're not going to change their

opinion, but I have found myself in fighter flight mode and like getting into, getting

into it with people who aren't wearing masks in the gas stations.

That's pretty funny.

Uh, I'll be, you said all countries are the same.

That can't be right.

No, like, like, no, not countries like USA and India, like rural areas, like, like rural

Northern rural California is very similar as rural Burma, rural Alabama.

Like it's not like a North or South thing.

It's like a rural suburb city thing.

And so what are you doing to keep yourself from going crazy?

Um, exercising is the only thing that I can do.

Um, I mean, I don't have a home anymore.

I'm just traveling.

I guess that, that's all I'm doing.

Well, what are you doing?

I mean, I feel like I just work and exercise.

I don't do anything else.

Yeah.

I pretty much do those two things and play with my daughter and, uh, try to help take

care of her.

But, um, I got this trainer who is, he's my personal trainer for fitness.

He comes to the house every day and we work out in the backyard.

It's awesome.

Um, but he's also like kind of like a mindset coach, uh, life coach.

And so he's great because he, um, I, I, I usually in relationships, I'm the one who

kind of is bringing different mindset things, positivity, uh, different frameworks,

different lenses to, to kind of see life through.

That's what I usually bring to all my relationships.

And he does that to me.

He's like even higher level of understanding and drinks more of that

Kool-Aid than I do.

And so he's given me these little, these little tactics, these little things

that help.

So I'll give you an example.

Um, he was telling me the story yesterday.

Uh, he goes, uh, he goes, yeah, I went to the, uh, he's like, he's like, I, I normally

I wake up great, uh, feeling great, but I woke up feeling super anxious today.

I was like, Oh shit, what, why, what happened?

And he goes, um, he goes, you know, I knew I had to drive over here.

And he's like, I actually have had an expired license for two years.

And so he was like, I'm always anxious that I'm going to get pulled over.

And he's like, the only thing that makes me more anxious about that is having to go

to the DMV like, fuck, the DMV is like the worst, right?

Everyone kind of universally agrees.

The DMV is the worst.

And so he's like, so I just avoided it.

And so he's like, so I woke up today.

I recognize that I'm feeling anxious about it.

And he's like, I got a playbook for anxiety, right?

Like, okay, feeling anxious, therefore I do XYZ.

And he's like, I don't have to like, I don't get lost in the, in the feeling.

Like I, I have a recipe for every feeling.

And so he was like, all right, so I'm going to address this head on.

And I'm going to turn my anxiety into joy.

Okay.

How do I do that?

And so he's telling me the story.

He's like, I went to the DMV, I think before, he's like, on my way there, he's

like, I was like, am I the only one who feels this way about the DMV?

So he goes to Yelp and he saw that the DMV locally had like a 2.3 star review or

whatever, right?

Like, you know, DMV is hated by, by most.

And so he, he says in his mind, he goes, okay, it's rated 2.3 stars.

I'm going to give it, I'm going to have a five star experience here.

He goes, okay, how do I have, how do I have a five star experience?

He goes, I'm going to be a five star customer at the DMV.

He's like, I'm going to go in.

I'm going to be laughing.

I'm going to be smiling.

I'm going to be patient.

I'm going to be, you know, flirting with the, with the staff there.

And he's like, I'm going to find the most hospitable person here, right?

Five star comes from hospitality.

I'm going to find hospitality at the DMV.

He's like, he's like, I went in, I started talking and met this lady, Wendy at

the front and she's this, you know, she's this big black lady who has, who I

could tell she was ready to have a good time.

Um, and he's like, I started flirting with her a little bit.

So I was talking to her and she was like, you know what?

Like come this way real quick.

And she kind of shuffled him to the front of the line.

He goes through.

He doesn't, he, you know, he has expired a license.

They're laughing at him for having a two years, you know, expired license.

And he was telling him how anxious he was about coming to the DMV.

And they're like, look, no problem.

He didn't even have to take his test.

They just give him a new license six straight away.

They're like, you normally have to set up an appointment, but like here, sign

this sheet, boom, you're done.

Uh, get out of here.

And he walked out and he was like, holy shit.

He's like, if I can make the DMV a five star experience for me, then like,

you know, whatever, not what can rock me.

If I can, if I can own the DMV like this.

And so he told me this little story and you know, the thing I took from it was

like, I have all these things that I let, um, piss me off or make me mad throughout

the day.

Like I'm normally very good, but then I'll dip on these like stressful

situations or like a task that I think is going to be a pain in the ass.

That's actually what gets me the most.

It's not usually stressed.

It's usually like tasks that are pain in the ass.

And he took the most pain in the ass task and go into the DMV and he turned it

into a story and he turned it into a good time.

And so that became my challenge.

That's this little mini game I'm playing in my head, uh, that nobody knows

I'm playing, which is I'm looking out for these pain in the ass burden type

of moments and I'm going to try to DMV it like he did.

So that's, that's something that's been keeping me entertained lately.

That is a great, that's a great story.

Thank you.

I loved it when he told me that story.

I was like, this is a great fucking story.

I'm just hearing it in my backyard alone.

I got to tell people about this.

And so I didn't know how I was going to tell people, but it turns out it came

out on the podcast.

That is a great one.

And to wrap this up, you have a trainer who you see every day.

Uh, four days a week.

Yeah.

Who wait, what, and what, what does that, should I get that?

That sounds amazing.

What does this cost?

Uh, he's amazing.

Yeah, he's great.

Uh, in fact, it costs, he's like a, uh, kind of like an alien.

Like most trainers are like most kind of people who are paid by the hour.

They're very time conscious, right?

Like they show up on time and then they, you know, hour on the dot, they

leave because they got to get to their next client.

They're like zipping from place to place.

And, you know, they're very time conscious.

That always doesn't work for me because you know, you, you hate this about me.

I'm late often, right?

And, um, and he's the exact opposite.

He is like not worried about time ever.

Um, and I ask him about this.

I'm like, dude, you were hanging out like an hour after the workout.

We're just chatting.

We're, we're, you know, we're just, we're just shooting the shit about stuff.

He'll be asking me about business, whatever.

And, um, I'm like, don't you feel like you've never, you're never seemed

like you're in a hurry.

He goes, Oh, he's like, I, he's like, I, I, I pride myself on being a hacker of time.

I said, what do you mean?

He goes, he goes, everybody is so stressed all the time.

And the reason one of the roots of most people's stress is they feel like

they don't have enough time.

Like when they feel like they didn't get enough done in a day, that just

means they didn't feel like they had enough time to get stuff done.

Or if they're stressed about their relationship and they're stressed

about having kids, it's like, cause they feel like they're running out of time.

And they're, you know, their biological clock is ticking or whatever.

Right.

People have this like a lot of stress is based on time.

And he goes, I felt that way in my life and I decided to change that.

So now I focus on timing.

Anytime I find myself worried about time, I think to myself, the opposite.

What is this great?

What is, what is the great timing in my life right now?

What if I just felt like it was perfect timing going for me?

Um, I was like, what do you mean?

He's like, so like, for example, um, you know, uh, whenever I'm in a situation,

like, you know, you asked me to drive out here to your house to train you.

Most people don't do that.

Most people come to my gym, but, uh, instead of worrying about how much time

that was going to take, I thought about, hmm, what, how is this perfect timing

for me?

He's like, and then I drove into your neighborhood.

He goes, I love this neighborhood.

I decided I'm going to live in this neighborhood.

Like I fell in love with this neighborhood when I came here.

That's, that's how timing works for me.

I met you.

Normally I would have never worked with you because you were trying to get me

to come to your house, but I thought, hmm, maybe there's some timing that

brought this guy into my life.

What is he going to teach me?

What's he going to show me that I wouldn't otherwise have had?

What, what is this great opportunity?

And so he's really focused on, let's say timing.

And so he's like this personal trainer who also has like all these life

philosophies and he just operates with such good energy and such a good vibe

that like by the end of the hour or hour and a half that I work with him,

like a buzzing dude.

It's like, this is, uh, it's like a drug.

It's like being around him is like a drug cause he's always in such a great,

great, uh, state of mind.

Well, I, I, I want to do this.

Can I give you one more example or are we, we too far over?

Yeah.

Okay.

So here's an example of how he changed my life.

Um, it's a metaphor that, that I'm using now all the time.

So I don't know about you, but like, no matter how successful I get,

whenever I started a new project, I get stressed again.

Um, and I get stressed ultimately because I'm afraid it's going to fail.

Right.

Like if I knew it was going to succeed, I wouldn't be fucking stressed.

I'd be, I'd just be excited.

Oh great.

I'm going to win.

I already know I have the winning lottery ticket.

Uh, but the reality is like with any new project, I'm trying to get more

ambitious and then that brings in the possibility of failure.

And, um, and what he taught me was he's, when we were talking about fitness,

it was sort of the same thing.

I've many, many times tried to get fit and struggled with either the

diet or working out consistently or whatever.

And, um, he's like, you know, what gets you off track, blah, blah, blah.

And what we found was it was the same root cause.

It's the same fear of failure.

What if I can't stick to the program?

What if the diet's too hard to maintain?

Uh, and then I'll find evidence of that as I go, right?

When it's like, it's really hard.

I'll be like, fuck, it's happening again.

I'm, you know, I might fail.

I might fall off track.

And, um, so he was like, look, not only are we going to get the results you want,

not only are we going to win, um, but we're going to get there with enjoyment.

We're not going to stress about it.

And so he's, I was like, all right, well, how do you do that?

He's like, let's say today you're at a four in your fitness level.

He's like, and you could be at a four in anything in your life, personal finances,

whatever.

So let's say you're at a four in fitness and you want to get to your 10, right?

Let's get real clear about the 10.

Cool.

Here's what your 10 is.

And I described it in detail.

You made me awkwardly describe how I want my body to be in my life to be as a 10.

He's like, all right, that's a 10.

You're at a four now.

He goes, we're not just going to do what most people do.

Most people, when they're at a four, they think about the 10 they want.

And then they just feel shitty that they're not at the 10 and they try to use

that as fuel as motivation of like, fuck, I hate where I'm at.

I want to get to where I want to be.

And they just, they just continue hating the four and wishing they had the 10.

He goes, that's cool.

You might get there, but you'll feel shitty the whole time.

And that's not a win.

So here's what we're going to do.

We're going to love the four.

Okay.

You're at a four right now.

Fantastic.

And all we're going to focus on is not the 10, we're going to focus on a five.

Five comes next.

And we're going to get really excited every time we sense that we're going from

four to five.

And sure, five is still not nowhere near what our 10 is going to be, but we're

going to really get excited about every time we see that signs of that five coming.

And so he just kind of broke it down into much smaller chunks.

And the last thing he said was, if I, what if I told you again that the 10 was inevitable,

you were absolutely going to get there.

He's like, imagine you go outside your house and there's a corner store and at

that corner store is, you know, the ice cream you want, right?

Because, you know, when you, when you're walking to your corner store, you're

not worried, am I going to get there?

You don't fear failure.

You know, you're going to get there.

You also know you're not there yet, right?

So you know, you're far away today.

Cool with that.

No problem.

You know, you need to do some work to get there.

You need to walk to get to the corner store.

No problem.

I don't mind doing the work because you're absolutely certain that you're going to

get to the corner store.

There's no doubt in your mind that you're going to fail and fail to walk there.

He goes, that's how we're going to think about success for our body.

It's just this corner store that we're inevitably going to get to.

We just got to take a bunch of steps and we're going to go step by step all the

way there, but there's no fear of failure because it is, it is as we are as

certain that we're going to get to our destination as we're certain that we

could just get to that corner store.

And we're not going to feel bad that we're far away right now.

Like, duh, we just left our house.

Of course, we still got a way to go, um, but we're going to enjoy the walk there.

And that metaphor, I don't know why, but that just,

that just clicked for me.

Um, and I just got really, really fucking certain that it's going to happen.

And now I'm enjoying the process on the way there.

So I don't know that maybe it was too long of a spiel.

Maybe we should edit this out, but you, that has changed my life.

Oh, well, well, I think that this trainer is your soulmate.

You might be, you guys are like, you guys are like the same person.

I think, uh, you, yeah, you, I think you got to marry that your trainer.

I, you know, I actually, when I saw him and I was like, wait,

you used to train my wife and he's a good looking dude.

And I was like, and he's real smooth too.

So I was like, ah, this, if I knew that you are who you are,

I would have never let my wife trade with you, dude.

Like you're Mr. Steel, your girl.

And I was like, but now my wife should be worried that I'm just

going to fall in love with you because we are the same brain.

What's the price per session?

Uh, I think he charges me, uh, is it like 85 bucks a session or something like that?

And it's all 85, 90 bucks a session trainer.

What's that?

I think I need to get a trainer.

Yeah, you should work out with this guy, but you got to be back in kind of the area.

Um, well, this is a good episode.

Uh, appreciate everyone listening.

Leave a review.

We read all of them.

And, uh, maybe we'll be back next week with some more trainer stories from Sean Perry.

All right.

See you.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.