198 Land med Einar Tørnquist: Ukraina del 3 med Jørn Holm-Hansen

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Welcome to part 3 of this...

...booklets.

No booklets.

This is fantastic.

Even though he said so himself.

But we have to talk about Ukraine further.

And we can take...

It can be like our time.

If we go now to Etter Sovjet.

And we go to...

We've been through it in the first episode.

We talked a bit about oligarch-weld, comradery, corruption, pump-weld.

Can we try to get to this orange revolution?

Yes.

When the human fletta and the man who got a bad head.

All that stuff.

What is this?

Because this is something I just remember.

It has disappeared from my mind.

What was that?

It was a typical Ukrainian affair.

Where it was...

...so to speak.

I don't know much about Valkfisk.

Was it Janukovic?

Yes.

He was a typical oligarch-friend.

President?

President from the east.

Yes.

He was a multi-vector politician.

With good connections to Russia.

And to the whole of Europe.

He was seen as a coward.

Especially from people in the West Ukraine and in Kyiv.

And he...

He had taken over a wave.

People in many regions.

Like Valkfisk.

There were protests.

And there was always a new wave.

And then...

Viktor Yoschenko was elected.

President from the other line.

He was one of the pro-European and Ukrainian national lines.

And this was in 2004?

Yes.

And he was sentenced to death.

And he became very Russian.

What happened there?

He was abroad.

And he was sentenced to death.

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Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

Ivan L?

He's going to take it to be a bit of an opposition to you.

But that's a revolution.

Is he the president?

Yes.

Who is Julia Tumoschenko?

Julia Tumoschenko is a state-of-the-art French politician.

Very typical.

He's involved in all these comrades-in-chiefs.

Oh, is that so?

He's involved in all these comrades-in-chiefs.

He's experienced a lot of energy import from Russia and so on.

She's not really that popular.

She's been quite unpopular for a very long time.

When it's like this uproar in Ukraine,

since 2004 and 2014,

there's this very bland thing that makes people crazy.

Here it was like a wavefish that was released,

but it was a kind of a general mystery to the political system

and all these comrades-in-chiefs.

And so it was a different thing that people reacted to,

but this with curiosity over the snusk in the elite

is a sort of a transition thing.

But when it's time to end up choosing a comic for the president

at the age of 15,

he says that he might not be able to come to a goal with this Yuschenko.

Yuschenko?

No, it didn't come to a goal.

It didn't come to a goal at all.

But I'm dealing with this uncultured,

and as we talked about in the previous episode,

in the middle of this innovation,

some parts of the experience are through corruption.

But one of the reasons people chose Zelensky

in his election speech.

He got almost 75% of the votes in the second election.

He just won two...

And his party, Slohanna Rodeau,

who was just elected by Jura,

and the candidate was elected by the National Audition,

not the nomination process by the party.

He won a job like that.

Zelensky got a few more votes in the National Assembly,

and that's what happened before.

That's the number you hear in North Korea,

but Nugab is a very good number.

But it's rare that it's between 60 and 90%.

No, 75% in the second election.

It's also pretty high,

because you can't really tell the difference,

but it wasn't the election that made it this time.

But there were people up in it,

and Zelensky was a very good person to stand up

as a new person, out of this.

That's what happened in 2010.

We started to get sad.

But it was a bit of a cheap hope,

because Zelensky gathered with Emmanuel Macron

before he came in,

out of nowhere,

with something completely new.

But he had taken over the city council,

the French government,

and he had a French, very disciplined state apparatus

to his disposal.

Zelensky hadn't been in politics before,

he hadn't been a minister,

and he had worked on a state apparatus

that wasn't on it, but French.

A bit more porous.

Something more porous.

That was the way the revolution without change.

It's possible to call it orange.

Yes, there is someone who is called

the Korean sociologist Volodymyr Hyschenko.

Netop.

And then,

something dramatic happens.

Maidanplasen in Kyiv in 2014.

What happened in 2014?

Maidanplasen and it actually begins in 2013.

Yes, okay.

Because it's Janukovic, Victor Janukovic,

who was quite ahead, among many.

He was one of the most corrupt,

perhaps, of all the presidents they had.

He had two?

People had an idea that he could do something,

but he was a coward,

and then he played on some strings

that you can play on,

on the other side it goes a bit too far

into ethno-nationalism.

Many were very close to him,

and then he came up

to an agreement with the EU

that we needed to get an association agreement

which is a trend on the road towards membership.

The membership is quite far ahead of him,

but it opens up for a tighter cooperation,

as many wanted to.

And then he would talk to a civilian,

and then, right in front of what would happen,

he would do that,

and go in to stop the claim

to a Putin-Russian initiative,

and then stop the Eurasian-economic union.

I think it's a stupid idea

that states that come out of the Soviet Union

as infrastructure,

and economic,

and then, what can you say,

Russian culture,

compatible.

There were many countries

with Belarus, Kazakhstan,

Armenia,

and Kyrgyzstan.

There were some other people

who had air,

and then there was smalte,

and there were people involved.

So what happened,

people started to focus on membership,

which is more than...

On membership, yes.

And then there were different groups

that gathered there,

and there were different reasons

to be involved in the regime,

but the EU was the one

who got the opportunity to move on.

Was there blood on membership?

There was blood,

both from the demonstrators,

Trussellers,

and then the security forces came in,

and killed over 100 people.

And Yanukovych

fled to Russia.

And then the farmers

in Verhovna Rada,

the Eurasian Soviet Union,

the Eurasian Council,

over,

and then it was quite quickly

passed through Valga.

Yes.

And then there was Petro Poroshenko,

who was the same as

Yushchenko,

who was the pro-European.

But the same way

of corruption...

Probably less than Yanukovych,

but more than enough

for people to get close to him quite quickly.

Yes, that's true.

Okay, so then Russia,

and then Dundrenin on crime,

the latter who did not,

and then

massacred them with something else.

When was this,

in 2014, remember?

No, it was in spring.

And then,

what is the reason,

why can Russia now

with Sweden and the flag in hand

go in and say,

Hi, we are going to help you.

The Russian version,

was used to be a little cup.

But it is,

as far as I can understand,

the rules of the basic law.

And it was chosen,

immediately after that.

If it was a cup,

the cup was only a few days,

and it was stabilized.

But I would like to say that

it was not a cup.

What they used as a basis

was that the people on crime

themselves wanted

not to be on this

cup regime,

as they called it,

the regime in Kiev,

as they call it.

And this was the last one?

Yes, it was the last one.

Yes, it was the last one,

but after that.

Yes.

And then they blew up,

there were such ultra-hieres

in the modern place,

and they used a steppe

that I have not talked about,

but the one from

actually completely

from Ukraine,

who was the leader

for these nationalists

in the Eastern Pole,

who massacred the Poles in 1942-1943.

So there are many such things

they play on there.

When they say that it was the last one,

but they played on crime,

they said that people on crime

did not want to be a part

of Ukraine.

And it can happen that

the population on crime

could actually

think about it,

at least to reverse

this decision,

which Nikita Khrushchev,

who was the leader for the

Communist Party,

made in 1954

to give crime

from the Russian part of the

republic,

and took over

as a Russian.

And he was a bit like the

national line,

who was often led by Kiev.

What is the truth about

the people on the Sevastopol

and crime in Donbass?

I do not know, because it was

to hold a full-time vote,

where there were a lot of

numbers to

finally decide whether the

population is the same,

but the population

was not

internationally recognized.

First of all, because it was

too rich,

where you have to call it

an occupied area,

and secondly,

that it was not

enough for the population

to be an international

non-violent

election observation.

It was not a election

that was open,

because it was not possible

to choose the alternatives

to the election,

so there was no alternative.

No, we will be a part of Ukraine.

So you say that in the last

May 1940,

in Norway,

people had voted

if we were to be in

Nazi Germany,

and that was the alternative.

So you mean that the

people chose between two different ways

to be a part of Nazi Germany?

Yes, mostly in Kosten or

Kusten and so on.

So that is just an excuse.

We do not know what they

meant then, but

I do not think

that a part of the people

there, and maybe in Donbass

at that point,

thought that Russia could be

a better solution, because

for the first time I have seen

Russia, we get much higher

pension, if you are a teacher

you get much higher salary,

and it is more well-organized

and stable, you can say,

in Russia, and most people

are more stable than

Krangyl.

But you can see for yourself,

if you had lived there,

and you understand that

if in Russia you had had

a crime, if it was

exposed to the war,

you would not have a lot of money

to do this in a flat and strong environment

like an exhibition, you see

where we took over,

at least on the floor.

I have not really done

much on the crime.

They did it for the scene,

the last scene of the crime

where they have at least

built up prestigious buildings

that look fancy

on the outside,

and on the ground.

You can see that

there is a mistake that has come

at least.

Now we are

in Ukraine

in 2023.

I am a bit curious

how the life is in Ukraine

for example, if there was a trade

in Lofov,

what do you call it?

Lviv?

Had I been working

every day, or had I taken the trick

in the school?

Yes.

You certainly had

done that.

My clear impression

has been in the West Ukraine.

But

as a trade

you might have had

some of the

people who had moved

from the east

to the south.

There were

many new establishments

of people

from the interior

of the 6 million

who have moved from there

to other places in Ukraine.

It is

something that the family

is gathering

in order not to be sitting

alone with the kids

in Norway, for example,

and the kids go to school at night

and have remote education

in the Ukrainian school.

They take part in the business

scene.

Business and cultural life

are all possible.

You might have had

some competition

with a trade

from Nipro

who had spread the practice there

and when you took the trick

you might have had more trouble

than it was before.

What if the trade

was blown away?

Is there any drift there?

Is it just too late?

Exactly.

The city is

pretty late.

I think.

It is very late at least.

You might have had

many old patients

who are still there.

With bad teeth.

A lot of good ears for the trade.

If the other trade is still there

in the business,

let's say you are a state

on an occupied area.

If it was public,

it would be a school trade

or something like that.

I don't know if they have the credit

but if it was a trade

you would get a discount

for the occupying

authorities.

They would ask you

to take Russian citizenship

for Russian pass.

You have the license

and the pension

and a lot of that.

At the same time

Kyiv decides

that you want to be a collaborator.

You are a deserter

and you could get

a 10-15 year prison.

So you have to give it to

those who win the war.

And you could be deported

by the Russians.

If you didn't go after

you would have been a deserter.

No, I don't think

anyone can solve this.

I hope

at least.

The difference between those who

go in

and take

the administrative work

and the political work

and the difference between

those who are civil teachers

and those who don't work

in trade.

You have to go around

around Tanverk

because you have to be healthy.

There are some

specific problems

people come up with

where it is easy to stand

and be healthy.

You have never worked

before, have you?

No, I would never

have done that.

No, I have sat

me up and slept in a

room.

There are problems here.

Of course.

And they are

quite

difficult to deal with.

They do, of course.

It is something you

don't think much about.

You think about your father

before you get arrested.

When life is

going on

during the occupation

you don't think about it

before you are there.

When Russia invaded

we heard about women and children

and we heard about boys and girls

fighting against the Russians

behind Sandsäker

and Pigtra.

How is that today?

Because there are many who are not

in the army.

Yes, there are many who are not

in the army.

But they can be imprisoned

as well.

Before the invasion

was there such a big difference

in how daily life was in East and West?

Is it a country

that is very different?

Is it

homogenous or heterogeneous?

Some of them want

to say that they are very heterogeneous.

Others say

that they are

quite similar.

But it is a bit difficult

to

say

that there is a clear conclusion.

There is a big difference

between all of us

in Ukraine

and the whole city

picture.

The city with

only

Hapsburg architecture

and street

is like Praha, Krakow,

Akte. It is beautiful

It is very fantastic.

And it is

just a bit slender

that it becomes a bit charming.

And it is full of life

a lot of people out there.

In Ukraine, for example,

Harkiv, which I like very well

where it is more

Russian-Soviet-like

and where most people

I was there

in 2019

not always

If you can find civilians,

among other people out there

in Russia

when they meet

they go to Ukraine.

I always get a lot of questions

I have a question

which is

Russian-British expression well-known.

I know

that Russians are close to each other

If people do not know

they smile to them.

They are led

by the same beast

and the same people

and where it comes from

I think it is very different

with Russians.

Russian is a word

which is

Olypka Besbrychini

means

a smile without a reason

is a sign of evil

I

I have to say

that I am a little confused

and people do not smile without a reason

I think it is a little confused

because I do not know what to say

but I think it is a little boring

and

I have noticed in Russia

that people do not understand

when I am in Russia

that people do not want to be in Russia

because there are people in Syria

I do not notice that I am in Syria

why do they care about you

when I talk to people in Luka

they care that they should vote

they should vote

if there is a little talk

and then you are the best friend

for a minute

then they smile so well

Yes, it is known to people

they are completely different

they are the warmest people

but there is something very different

with Russians

it is a little difficult

to say

I have not really thought about it

but I do not think

people create a very nice

it is like

it is like a match

it is also like

maybe a foredom

when there is war

in Ukraine

and then the president and all

they are so bad ass

they are in the middle of the campaign

and they film themselves

and there are heavyweight boxers

that are burglars

of course

there is a lot of fighting

is it generally a martial culture

is it to drive people fast

and smoke a lot

and drink with both hands

or is it more like

Russia?

maybe a little

foredom that it should be like that

but it is a little more

traditional dance role

than we have

I think

you can say

that the culture around the war

is it like

when a woman points to the moon

so high and long down

so she can see

the difference between men and women

it is not so good

that we are there

actually it is a little more than the beginning

a little ahead

what is the realistic outcome

of the war

let's say that Russia does not collapse

or retreat back

is Crimea lost to Ukraine

do you think?

there is someone who

is looking for more

this type of problem

what I do is that

it is not realistic

that Ukraine will get back

Crimea

it is also my impression

that you are longer than 10 years

yes, because

the start of the war in Russia

is here

we should not think

that it started last year

because it actually started today

where the full scale

was

when we saw how it took place

in the start phase

there has not been

the full mobilization of the world view

in Russia, but it was

a powerful rise of innovation

but what happened

before this powerful rise

of innovation, that is, between

2014 and 2014

was that

the world was in danger

of accepting the state

not at all

not at all, there were sanctions

but

in the Norwegian political debate

it was very political

that it was nice that we started

to take in contact with Russia

that the city council

started to encourage each other

to take in more people

to take in more people

and to

take the best of it

okay, this situation

has to move on

then it came the rise

and then

a different understanding

was this argument that it was

a country

from a neighboring country

into a different country

it was on the mind of a country

at least it will be exciting to see

Yes, it's always fun to have some excitement in your life, you know what, now we have talked a lot, we have to bow to the ball, yes!

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Can I impress you with the fact that perhaps you can say Jös?

Maybe not.

Do you want to see that?

Of course.

If I say that Osolomio was written in Ukraine.

Then I say Jös.

Yes, you didn't know that.

You wrote Odessa in 1988.

Not of the Ukrainians, of course, but of the Italian government.

It is said a bit about the link between the Italy, the Eastern Europe, the French, and so on, and that Odessa has always had.

Absolutely.

84 meters long, 88 meters wide and 18 meters high, the Ukrainian Antonov A1-225 was the world's largest plane that was designed in the previous version.

I knew that.

I knew that.

Maria Kastedrömmen.

Netop.

I have flown with the anti-aircraft utility before Antonov.

The world's smallest plane?

No, I may not be the smallest plane, but at least Antonov's plane.

The other one was A1-2.

And it is a small plane that is partly in use.

It is such a small thing with such stools.

It sits face to face and has two wings on each side.

Cool.

A plane like that in the 1990s, a landscape version.

It is.

A landscape that did not have a airfield, but it had an earth.

Yes, that too.

And the airfield facilities, it was a reading room and an outdoor room with two holes.

Let's see.

Yes.

I have that in Ukraine.

So when you go into the toilet, there are two doors.

Because I often go to restaurants, there are two toilet doors that sit opposite each other.

You can sit and talk, but then ...

Yes, Österslavra is a social field.

Yes, really.

I like to be together.

I get them again, or cliché, but I like to ...

And how it happens.

What do you mean ...

So many people don't know that I don't have them in a few minutes.

So I'm on my own.

No.

But you are not Österslavra, are you?

Yes, I am not Österslavra.

I'm going to have one then.

I'm going to discuss if I'm up to ...

If I'm up to ...

Hardisk.

Is it an Ukrainian invention?

Yes.

And that's not true.

From the Ukrainian home side, there is a list of Ukrainian inventions that I think I've put a part in,

which may not be completely clear to you, because it creates a little interest.

That can be true.

It is also one of the Lubimyr Romankiv, which was one of the researchers who contributed to the development of Hardisk.

This happened in the US.

Because it was a relatively long time ago, of course.

And the Ukrainian invention was born.

It was in the pool at that time.

Oh yes.

This is a lot that is not Ukrainian.

But they list it as their own invention.

So this is a kind of juice.

Igor Sikorsky from Kyiv built the first mass-produced helicopter.

Sikorsky R-4 in 1942.

Partly.

Yes.

I didn't know he came from Kyiv.

I thought he was Polish.

Yes, from Kyiv.

At least 40 Kyiv.

Yes.

But he moved to the US in 1919.

That's where he made it.

Okay.

A 100% Ukrainian invention, which I'm actually completely Ukrainian,

is an able-talk gloves.

It is a glove for those who speak Ukrainian,

so they can take it on themselves.

And then they can translate it to the text we have bled out.

That's genius.

That's genius.

Because speaking Ukrainian is extremely difficult.

Very difficult.

That's what I do.

And then it gratifies.

Yes, it gratifies.

In 2002, it actually came out very difficult earlier.

Ukrainian toothbrushes, after that,

they just pop it down at the end of the day.

Last one.

I think it varies, because they have an extremely well-developed toothbrush.

Yes, but you don't think so.

And with their old style,

and with their very modern style.

So I think that some people don't do that.

They do it on the highway, for example, or old days.

Yes, because I remember that from a long time ago.

Yes, but you don't have to use the toilet

under the toothbrush on the station, as it says.

No, that's not true.

It's the toilet version, isn't it?

I'm going to have to wait a bit.

Okay, this one.

Trambita is an Ukrainian blue instrument,

from the longest time in the world.

It can be up to 8 meters long,

which is a lot shorter.

Yes.

Yes, that's a check.

I've never heard of it,

but it's probably incredibly nice.

Petro Prokopovic found the bi-cube in 1914.

Yes.

Yes, that's something we'll get to know better.

I think that was a nice invention, but...

I don't think so,

because you have to turn all the cars

to get your hands on it, for sure.

Yes.

Mila Kunis and Mila Jojovic are both Ukrainian.

Yes.

I've never heard of it before,

and Sergei Bobka sat at the 35th World Cup in Rysavsbrang.

That was what I had.

A bit of that was a bit of a challenge, wasn't it?

Yes.

Then we'll have a couple of song questions and then we'll go home.

Music

We have a bit of a question on Jörn

and Nikolai Evansson-Tanberg.

He asks,

Have Jörn been in Gamalsensk town?

No.

No, do you know what that is?

Yes, it's a result of the fact that

Russia, under Catherine the Great,

took the territories between

the Daverns of the Russian Empire and the Black Sea.

Yes.

There are quite a few people in the territory,

and they would like to have people

from different parts of Europe.

Is there a lot of Estonians here?

Yes, there were a lot of Germans who came here,

but right after the accident,

there was a group from Öja Dagö,

which is located in Hjoma,

located outside of the east of Estonia.

Yes.

And there you lived in Sweden.

Yes, exactly.

There was an island in Viklund

that illustrated the Pippiböken,

the island of Aströdingren.

Yes.

She was Swedish from there.

No, do you say that?

From the background.

But they believed that there was air on the ground

and so on.

Yes.

They held their Swedish identity

somewhat similar,

but a bit like that,

in the Amyl region,

because that was the German landscape.

Öystein, a new question.

Are the conclusions of the war against Russia

as much as the impressions

in the media,

or do they think that the west was long

under the pretext that one should give up

in such an area in the east

so that one can get an opinion on that?

The impression is that the conclusion

is that the UN should

return the occupant

and the aggressor

here.

Yes.

Because before that

attack on the war,

there was quite a big desire

to just end the war,

but it was very nice in the east.

Those who allowed our shooting

to go,

they were a bit pragmatic there.

Just to end this here,

we want peace.

But not in the west,

we just have to stand on.

We have to do ourselves to return to the east,

but I think that

this form of war that Russia

has now dealt with,

with massive destruction of villages,

massacres that are being borne,

and brutality in occupied areas,

makes people stop

fighting the Ukraine

and the war.

But now such unhealed

investigations,

it is not so much of,

I think,

but in any case,

I have seen investigations,

and it shows that there is a massive

end,

regarding

Ukraine's affairs

within the Ukrainian population.

Okay.

Hege Sveos-Fadum,

she asks,

Ukraine will get worse

on the corruption index,

but the president wants

improvements here and wants

in the EU and NATO.

What do you think

about the development of Ukraine

on this topic?

I was optimistic,

but after all the corruption

that happened

after the invasion of last year,

I am a little more pessimistic.

I think that the war itself,

in a way,

can be a sort of

such a degree of corruption,

so it is difficult to see for yourself.

I cannot understand how

to get it to

when this time

the innovation disciplinates people.

No.

It does not hold with new promises

or such a spark

of people

that Zelensky has time for.

It has to,

and it is in its place,

both the spark and the power of law,

but it is to get this

to be revived.

It is what is the big

book,

and it is extremely difficult

to get,

you know,

to take care of that type

of,

for the first time,

corruption is very difficult

to get it back.

Or to get it

into a different path.

So the problem is that

in very corrupt countries

there is a lot of smoke

corruption as well.

And most of the people

have done,

have done studies

in corrupt countries

that some people

think that,

okay,

basically it is not good,

but

it is a way

they can

handle the world.

Because they know

that it should be paid

a little there.

You have some contact,

you know that,

you know the right word,

just to get it

a little better,

to know that

the law

that you have to come

a little ahead of you.

It is like

sitting on a micro level.

Yes, it is a little like

you feel that

it is a little like

you have contacts

and

you have done it.

But it is not always

like this,

this is real.

No.

But when you come

and you have to

break down

such smoke corruption

and smoke

and nepotism,

then

people react

negatively.

Exactly.

Erik Fleischmann

asks how they

usually act

in trade.

And that is

an interesting question,

because the question is

actually

where it is more expensive

than there.

I asked

my

korean colleague

about this

and she said

no,

it is actually us

who act

in trade

because it is more expensive.

But I think

I would say

in such peace

that

I think that

a part that

should not be

too long from

Belarus

of course.

Because there

there are high quality

prices

of food

and white goods

you know

Belarus is

Belarus.

Belarus

is still

talking about

the rules.

But

it is

it is

a horrible

political regime

but

when things like this

work

for some reason.

I also think

the normal situation

is normal.

It is

over to Russia

because they know

what is

being sold there.

And maybe

Moldova.

Petr

Lyngeng still

talks about it

and asks

is there any basis

in the complaints

that come

about Ukraine

before the war?

No.

No,

that is fine.

Tom

Tönsparan

is there any

good oil there?

Yes.

Is there any

special type of oil

we drink from?

There is a lot of

but

it is

generally

good oil

thanks to

German

and Czech

and Slovak

but it is

actually better than

Danish and Dutch.

Okay.

Danish and Dutch is fine.

Björn Ramdor

asks

who they tell

Swedish jokes about?

I don't know.

I haven't heard

such jokes

on

national

against

Nabovolk.

When it is

in Russia

they are

so bad at it.

Yes.

I think

jokes

about

Russia

and Russia

but

the type of Swedish jokes

I'm not sure.

I've heard about

Russian

who

tries to

copy the crime

and so on.

Magritte Kari

and Jonsen

ask

if you like

OKNLZ

I don't know

what it is.

I think

it is

a rock band

that sings

I'm not an expert

but

because

the question

is

that I

don't think

I'm really bad at it.

Okay.

That's nice.

That's

hopefully

the direction

of Russian music.

Exactly.

It was a little

down.

Russian music

that Ukraine

doesn't play

and so on

without

such

vulcan equipment

and

so on

dramatic

more fun.

Magnus Johan

Nilsen

asks if people can start

moving back

to Chernobyl

after they were

locked

over the old

nuclear power plant

there is an

enormous

dome

and

it is

around

150 people

who have

moved back

who are often

older people.

It was

built

a city

similar to

Chernobyl

Pripyat

Pripyat

which

was called

Pripyat

but

all the

republicans

would

make

their

line

and it

is

very

interesting.

When

I

got

a

flight

I wrote

a

book

about

Soviet

architecture

where

it is

a

bit

tragic

and

later

later

luck

I understand

but

at least

someone who lives there

is

in the

historical

story

about

Chernobyl

you think

of a

catastrophe

where

millions of people

died

but

it was

not

so many

who died

directly from

luck

there were

two

people

who were

not

fully

strong

conditions

all the

hard to

measure

is

something

for

height

at

Sholbrusk

for example

in the area

but

it is not

what

you

see

but

say

that the

biggest

damage

was

psychological

in today's Ukraine

what is

all the knowledge

among the Ukrainians

that the first year

of the show

was not married

but had

hair

and became

the last Viking training

the last

I don't think

all the

knowledge

in Ukraine

has never supported

someone who

has

pushed

up

that

in the

conversation

with

the

people

who

actually

an exhibition

that is

closer to Oslo

or

in Oslo

is an exhibition

at the historical museum

about the Vikings

in Kyiv

not

at the historical museum

so

the story

was not

that

first question

was

if you find

traces

after the

Norwegian

I don't know

there are

a lot of

traces

in the

Norwegian

it

seems

that

it could

be

I don't know

I think

because

you came

it was

a long time

in the show

you complain

but I

had a lot of fun

I was

so

tired

so I

complained

to the listeners

who

heard

all this

thank you

for coming

thank you

oh

that would be

so beautiful

I could use that

I appreciate it

that's the sound

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