My First Million: TikTokers Making A TV Shows For $5,000 With Millions Of Views And Other Ways To Make $ Online

There was this hot girl that I knew, and she's like,

my motto for getting dudes is, treat them mean, keep them keen.

The meaner I treat them, the happier and more they want me.

And I was like, that's the greatest thing ever.

I'm gonna do that with my life.

Of course it didn't work with women,

but it's kind of worked with business.

It's treat them mean, keep them keen.

It's like the more we say no, the more they want it.

And I can't believe it's worked that way.

I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to.

I put my all in it like no days off.

On a road, let's travel, never looking back.

All right, we're live.

Brother, it's been dry for me.

Not a lot of research and ideas going on.

Are you the same?

Dry season?

It's dry season.

I know what you mean, but I can't say I relate

because your boy's wet.

Really? You have stuff?

I'm just dripping with concepts.

You know, actually, I have all the stuff prepared

and then like, typically in the four hours

before we record, I just come up with a whole different set

of things that I want to talk about.

The first one is I got a bone to pick

with the fitness industry.

So you're fit.

I'm aspiring to be fit.

Yeah.

And a lot of the products I feel are geared

towards people like you.

It's like, bro, you want to be ripped.

It's, hey, do you want, you know, girls,

do you want a bigger butt and flatter stomach?

You know, that's kind of like most, I would say.

That's me.

That's you.

And then that's the female version of you.

I feel like 90% of like ad dollars go towards that

when it comes to fitness.

Would you say that's true?

Yeah, just people who want to look good naked.

Yeah, 90% of dollars I feel like go towards

getting you spring break ready.

But my trainer, for example, he works me out in the garage

and in doing so, there's a whole bunch of people that pass by

and I got to say the most interested group of people

that pass by are not looking to get ripped,

shredded, jacked, swole, whatever words you want to say,

those aren't the words that they're interested in.

They want to be knee pain free.

They want to be back pain free.

They want to be foot pain free.

And I feel like the pain free version of exercise

is a little under marketed.

And for every, you know, P90X or Beachbody program,

I think that there should be an even bigger version of that

that's just helping mom not have knee pain

when she walks or gets up from her chair.

And I think that what happens is,

there's a lot of workout programs that would say,

we could do that.

That's what, our program is great for that.

Like we both like knees over toes guy.

He's great for that.

But there's still this leap that the person has to put

together that, oh, if I do these exercises,

then that will be the benefit that I get out of it.

Whereas somebody else might be trying to jump higher,

run faster.

And I think that in the same way that,

you know that vitamin brand, Ali,

how they, instead of saying we provide vitamin D

or we provide magnesium,

it's like better sleep.

It's like we make you sleep better.

Yeah, immunity, sleep better, you know, whatever.

They basically just go straight to the benefit.

And I think that there should be a juggernaut

of a fitness company that is simply trying to make it

so that you are back pain and knee pain and foot pain free.

Neck pain.

These are common pains that people who are,

you know, have a ton of money,

have a ton of motivation to get these things fixed.

And it's just a lightweight exercise program.

I've been telling you about this.

Remember, I was like, my Instagram feed is just full

of shirtless dudes like stretching their hips

and like doing like stretches.

Like it's just this whole, they call it mobility now.

Mobility is the new pain free, you know?

Or mobility is like the new yoga.

Mobilities, I think it's the right idea,

but I think it's the wrong frame.

I don't need shirtless dudes stretching their hips.

I need mom saying, I woke up every day

and I had this problem.

I just, I just thought it was, I'm getting old, that's it.

And then they put me on this, you know,

21 day program by Dr. Knee.

And Dr. Knee, thank you so much.

I now walk pain free, I walk my dog,

I could play with my grandkids.

Thank you so much, Dr. Knee's.

And we need Dr. Knee's as the brand

and we need the testimonial not being ripped shirtless guys

stretching his hips.

It needs to be, you know,

what do they call it?

The silver tsunami or whatever.

Like it needs to be somebody with a little gray hair

saying how they used to not be able to just, you know,

do simple stuff in the kitchen and getting out of bed.

And now they can.

I mean, I don't know what else to say other than, yeah,

I agree the company, what was the thing that it's like,

I have one, is it hypervolt?

I forget one of the,

one of those like either hypervolt or Theragun companies,

they said, I remember they've seen their pitch

when they raised money,

they go, we want to be the Nike for recovery.

And. Right.

Hyper ice, I think is the.

Is it hyper ice?

I think that'd be challenging to pull off

because they're just kind of selling like a product

that's a bit commoditized now,

just like this vibrating thing.

But they've done a pretty good job with the branding.

But I think that that pitch was quite interesting.

And I actually think it has legs.

I think challenging, but it has legs.

And I think you could also have like a Nike for,

you know, like paint free, like, like,

I actually do think that that's like,

there is something quite interesting there with that.

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Yeah, the way Calm did around meditation,

if someone did around just getting rid of pains

that you think you have to live with,

but actually can be reversed.

Do you have pain?

I don't, but like, for example, my trainer,

he trains me, but he also trains my mom.

He trains my neighbor, who's like the CEO

of a big tech company, but then he also trains his mom.

And in fact, my neighbor, who's the CEO of a tech company,

he will miss sessions all the time because like, you know,

whatever he's on calls and shit like that,

but his mom never misses it.

And she's never worked out, like,

she didn't have a gym membership.

So she went from not having a gym membership

to having a personal trainer.

And when you see what he has her do, it's like,

is this a library?

Like you're stationary for like 90% of the workout.

And it's like, yeah, if she's sitting down flat footed,

she's just trying to push up from like, you know, her toes,

because her toes are incredibly weak

and that's causing a whole bunch of structural issues.

So he just perks up toes, then ankles,

then he gets to the calf, then the hamstring, then the knee,

you know, and he's just working his way up, rebuilding it.

And she's like mowing her lawn now.

Like she couldn't like walk basically.

Like she, from my neighbor's house to my house,

she basically couldn't get there each day.

And now she's literally mowing her lawn.

And that's kind of a crazy recovery.

Why don't you just get ripped?

Just do that also.

Bro, I'm trying.

Your boy likes cheese, okay?

There's a little bit of a problem.

You ever had a Dorito?

So I'm gonna have to do a shirtless pick

because so I like got really strong.

And then over the past like eight weeks,

I've lost 15 pounds and I'm trying to like,

I just like to try to do things.

So now I'm trying to get skinny.

And everyone's like, how are you doing it?

And the answer is, I just don't really eat.

You just be hungry all the time.

And my trainer was like, well, what's your goal?

And I go, I want to look good naked and live forever.

And he was like, cool.

Well, one of the proven things that makes,

that people live for a long, for a long time

is calorie restriction.

So just not eating a lot.

So if you want to live for a long time,

you just got to get used to not eating a lot.

So I've been getting used to it.

And it's not so bad.

It's not so bad, but it is kind of bad.

It's pretty bad.

I'm on that warm, buffet kick, bro.

I'm trying to live till 95, rich, happy,

telling great stories, eating like shit,

but enjoying every meal.

As you drink like a Coke Zero.

A Coke Zero.

That's my splurge.

I drink a Coke Zero and I drink a Fresca.

That's my drink.

You ever drink a Fresca?

Here's another service.

Someone who has the exact same life scenario as you,

but is fit, will send you a shirtless picture every day

and say, there's no excuses.

Oh, you're a mother of three?

Here's a mother of three who's fit.

She's going to send you a picture every morning.

What's your excuse now?

Oh, you're an entrepreneur?

Sam Parr is going to send you a picture every day and say,

yeah, I'm also an entrepreneur.

What's your excuse?

It's going to be called shamefully.

Shamefully.io.

Shamefully.ly, shamefully.ly.

And we simply ask you, what's your excuse?

Look, we've started actually like a nice gap.

Hey, we understand life's tough.

What's holding you back?

The realities of life?

Is it time?

Is it money?

Is it your kids?

Is it your unsupportive husband?

What is it?

And then we find you an exact match who's overcome that thing

and they just guilt you every morning.

If you're on your phone right now listening to this,

go to TikTok or maybe also Instagram, but for sure TikTok.

And type in the word papa swole.

So it's P-A-P-A and then swole, S-W-O-L-L, I think,

or S-W-O-L-E.

There's this guy on TikTok who came out of nowhere

and he has at this point like three or four million followers

or maybe even more.

I forget, I looked a few months ago

and all he does all day is he has one video

and he just walks up to the camera

and he goes, go to the fucking gym.

Go to the fucking gym, go to the gym.

That's all he says.

And now he's selling t-shirts and mugs and all this stuff.

And he, three times a day,

he makes the same video every single day.

And it just says, go to the gym, go to the gym.

And it's hilarious.

Have you seen this?

Yeah, I've seen this guy.

He just walks up to the camera dramatically

and says this one thing and everyone goes crazy.

It's the best.

Let me tell you about a different TikTok thing

that I think is pretty dope.

Okay, so I don't know the full backstory of this,

but I do think it's kind of cool.

So I saw a tweet that basically said,

there's like 521 year olds who are building

some next generation media company.

Oh, okay, what are you guys doing?

Well, basically it took them one month

and they launched a series of original TikTok shows.

So not just like themselves on TikTok, but an actual show.

So there's one show called Buying Time.

It's where they buy and sell watches,

like kind of like on the fly.

And you get to see them like,

buy or sell, negotiate the watch.

What's the name of the company?

So the name of the company, what is their name?

I thought it was related to that mad realities thing.

It might be.

So to say it sounds like that.

I think it is related to them.

I'll try to go find it.

Yeah, it's either produced by them, it's theirs,

or they're like in the network.

I'm not sure, but they're in their bio for all the shows.

It's at mad realities, right?

So that the company that we talked about

where we said, oh, we met this girl.

She was a college student at NYU.

They did that clubhouse thing where they did shoot your shot.

And I met her and I was like, wow, you're a star.

I don't know what this idea is.

She was doing like some web three version of The Bachelor.

I was like, oh, that's a terrible idea.

But this is, hey, that's okay.

This is your terrible idea.

You're gonna do amazing things.

I think they might have already pivoted

into something kind of amazing

or found something amazing under their umbrella.

And it's these shows.

So the watch one has in four weeks, 14 million views,

two million likes at a total budget of I think $2,000.

What?

190,000 followers.

And by the way, some of these numbers

might be a little off.

We got Brandon, the researcher.

He's running on the hamster wheel in the back here.

He's trying to get all the data,

but sometimes I mess up kind of reading his data.

So numbers are directional for anything I ever say.

But I did watch this other one.

Keep the meter running.

So keep it meter running school.

You'll like this concept.

They get in a cab in New York

and the guy's like, all right, where are you trying to go?

And he's like, where do you like to go in New York?

Why don't you take me there?

I've seen this.

It's so good.

And he's like, yeah.

He's like, take me to your favorite place.

You know, let's go eat.

You want lunch?

Have you eaten today?

And the guy's like, no, I don't eat till the end of my shift.

He's like, let's go.

Take me to your favorite spot.

He's like, okay.

He's like, yeah, just keep the meter running.

And they basically drive to like, you know,

the little, the like Halal town part of New York,

the get out.

And you hear this story and stuff like that?

And he's like, leave the meter running.

They go inside, they eat.

He asked him about his kids and his life

and how he ended up with a taxi.

Does he like it?

And they're just enjoying a meal.

And they just do that the whole day.

Also 2.4 million likes, 160,000 followers,

budget was really, really great, man.

That's a really great show.

Have you seen it?

I've seen it.

It's like, if humans of New York was a TikTok show.

And so they definitely find some gems of like human beings.

And you're just like, by the end of it,

you're just like, I just love this dude.

I just want this like taxi driver

to have an easier life and a better life.

It's a great show.

But he's happy too.

Which is the best part.

It's not, it doesn't make you feel guilty

because they're sad.

They're very happy and content with a simple life.

And most of the people who are watching TikTok

have like 10 times more going for them than this guy.

And are 10 times less happy and discontent

to scrolling TikTok basically at the time.

So it's like one of those things that makes you feel good.

So it's a feel good show.

Then they have this other one called Einstein Elementary.

It's basically this guy,

he calls himself the Einstein of Wall Street.

Kind of looks like Einstein, gray hair puffing out to the side.

And he just explains stock market shit in like simple terms.

And this one has million likes and 100,000 followers.

And I'm just like, this is really, really cool.

They're basically prototyping these shows

that could be produced into real shows or this might be it.

And the reason I wanted to bring this up

is because, A, 21 year olds doing cool shit, love it.

B, if you think about like, what's the next generation?

Like, you know, you worked on that show

or worked with a guy from American Pickers.

So like, there's all these like random news shows, right?

Like, these guys, they go into fucking storage units

and they like, you know,

they have to cook a meal out of what's in there.

What it's like, well, who the fuck thought of this?

Why am I watching this for two and a half hours?

Those shows are gonna happen on TikTok, not TV.

And they're gonna happen like a thousand fold.

You're gonna get a thousand times more experiments

just using TikTok.

The second thing is, I have this framework

that I learned from it by Buddy Suley,

which was the doors versus windows.

So when I saw this, I was like, huh, they got like,

you know, millions of views,

but they kind of don't make any money

and it kind of goes away.

So I don't really see the opportunity.

And at first I kind of wrote it off like,

yeah, that's the problem with TikTok, man.

You can get, you can pop off, but like, then what?

So what?

And I think that's so what drives away a lot of people.

But there's another part of me that's like,

of course this is valuable.

Of course, if you created a show

that people like and millions of people watch it,

there's going to be value there on this platform

that's growing and taking over like the entire social media.

It's like the fastest growing company in the world.

Of course, you being one of the fastest growing channels

on the fastest growing media app is a very valuable thing.

It's just not clear exactly what that value is,

how you'll capture it.

And in a few years, it'll be like, wow,

this person makes a hundred million dollars off TikTok.

That's crazy.

Right?

The same way we say about Mr. Beast on YouTube

and people on Twitch.

Oh, Ninja makes how many millions of dollars on Twitch?

That's crazy.

Just for playing video games.

And to me, this is a windows versus doors thing.

When the analogy goes like this,

most people only want to work on window opportunities.

Window opportunities where you could see straight through

and you could see what's the value on the other side.

And you see what's inside, then you could open the window

or break the window, whatever, hop in and take the value.

But a door opportunity is like a door's opaque.

You can't see what's on the other side.

You know there's probably something,

but you don't see exactly what it is.

And it's good to go for window opportunities

because you can see exactly what's there.

But it is bad to be the type of person

who only will do things and only take massive effort

on window opportunities and you never go knock on doors.

And when you knock on doors,

it's because 90% of other people have just walked by

because they don't know what's inside.

They don't want to make the effort.

And I think this is a door's opportunity

where people on TikTok are going to get way bigger

than most people realize.

They're going to figure out how to make money

even in these like 15 seconds of fame moments

that they're having.

And huge brands are going to be built this way.

And I just think it's a door opportunity.

We haven't heard the five success stories you need to hear

before it becomes a gold rush and everybody starts to copy it.

That's true.

I think though, in some regard,

like I work in the media industry, so do you.

Like it's a pretty like tried and true method

of like getting an audience

and making money through advertising.

So I have faith that they'll figure it out.

The thing that a lot of these companies

where they screw up,

there's basically, I've been thinking a lot about this,

but I've thought of one or two mistakes

that you can make in business

that are like basically irreversible.

So most decisions are reversible.

Not all, but most.

And a few that are not

is if you screw up your cap table

and you raise too much money.

And you have a company like Buzzfeed

that makes like 350 million in revenue,

maybe like 50 million in profit.

I think their market cap is 150 million right now

because like they're never going to like live up to the hype

that they once had of like five billion or whatever it is.

Same with like Bird Scooter.

Bird Scooter, maybe not a horrible company.

Did you see what their market cap is today?

It's like 70 million or something, right?

What is it?

No, 40, $40 million.

Wow.

$40 million.

And so a company like the like what do you use?

Dude, this house is worth more than Bird.

Isn't that crazy?

The founder owns house.

The founder bought a $20 million house.

Isn't that nuts?

Like the hustle was basically almost worth more than Bird

and Bird so or raised, I think like a billion dollars, right?

To be fair, the hustle was way cooler than Bird.

I mean, hey, dude, scooters littered all over the city.

Like I fuck with that.

You know, I like writing a scooter.

Oh, nice. We got your socks on.

But the point being with this with this person's business,

they could, I think they could kill it

as long as they don't raise too much money.

Because if they do, then I think that they're gonna,

they're gonna die and it's gonna be horrible.

Did I ever tell you the story about Elizabeth Murdock

calling me?

No, what was it?

So the week the hustle launched,

I wrote this blog post saying that we launched

and I get a call, a call from this Australian lady.

She goes, hi, this is Elizabeth Murdock.

And I knew right away who that was.

But I was like, wait, like,

Rupert's daughter, like the owner of Fox?

Liz, what's popping?

Yeah, I was like, Liz, what's up?

What are you doing calling?

She goes, hey, I saw your blog post

and I think what you're doing is really cool.

I think she said either she's launching

or she already launched this company called,

I think it was called Vertical Networks.

And it was exactly this thing where she goes,

basically I negotiated a deal with Snapchat

and they asked me to make content for them.

So I'm funding people to make content

and you seem kind of like a loose cannon

who's pretty funny.

I don't remember, I don't want to put words in her mouth

but she was like, can I buy you or like fund you

and you just make content for us on Snapchat?

And I was like, huh, that's interesting.

So I get in touch with like the guy running the company,

his name's Tom, he's awesome.

And he was like, yeah, so basically just like move here

and just start making content all day for Snapchat.

And I was like, I don't know, man,

that seems like a lot of work.

I don't really want to do that.

I've got a girlfriend who I'm probably gonna get married to.

And he goes, all right, well, no big deal.

We'll find someone else.

And so they find someone else

and it's these four guys or three guys

and they started a YouTube channel

and a Snapchat channel and then a YouTube channel

and it's called Yes Theory.

Have you heard of Yes Theory?

Oh, no way, that came from that?

Yeah, isn't that crazy?

So Yes Theory is this, it's like three guys

and their whole idea is like, they do crazy shit

where they like, and these guys are like, they're my age,

but at the time when they started,

they were like 25 and 26.

So like these young, like good looking dudes

and they would meet someone on the streets of Venice,

this like cute girl and be like,

hey, do you want to go to Rome right now?

Or they would get in an Uber and they're like,

hey, Uber driver, do you want to go to Hawaii this second?

We'll go and just leave your car there.

We'll just pay for everything.

And they do these crazy things like this

and it's like this great show.

And it started this way as one of these Snapchat shows.

And so what these young women are doing

with this like, with this media company,

it's the same thing that like has worked before in the past.

Yeah, that's really cool.

I didn't know you did that.

Wow, you were so close to a whole different life.

I don't regret it, man.

Those guys like have, if you follow their story dude,

they get burnt out like,

cause they would do this crazy stuff.

At first it was like, let's go skydiving

or let's make a bucket list and do it.

And then it was like, let's go to the most remote place

on earth for 24 hours.

And then let's go live on an island

with people who have never seen white people.

Why is it that you always hear

about YouTubers getting burnt out

but you never hear podcasters really getting burnt out?

Cause we don't do shit.

We just sit here and talk.

Like we don't have to do anything.

Like, dude, my friend Noah Kagan has this YouTube channel

where he has to go and like among many things.

He knocks on doors and shit.

He like knocks on doors and asks people

how they got rich.

Dude, I don't even, if I don't see cornflakes

at the grocery store, I don't buy it.

I'm too embarrassed to ask the clerk

at the counter where they are.

Like if it's not on Amazon or easily available

at a corner store, I don't buy it.

Like I can't imagine knocking on a door

and asking them how they got rich.

It's hard, it's exhausting.

Especially like Noah's cool.

He's a friend of ours.

But isn't it kind of like Noah, you're above this.

Like Noah, you're rich.

We should be knocking on your door

and asking you how you got rich.

This is the point of being rich

that you don't have to do this bullshit.

Yeah, but he's, you know, he's just trying to play the game.

He's trying to play the game.

He's trying to get popular.

I don't know.

He's just trying to get popular.

And so it's working.

He actually has this new series

where he interviews old people

and who are rich and ask them if it was worth it.

And that's actually a very, very cool series.

That one's cooler.

It's also more like a podcast.

It's yes, but yeah.

Dude, YouTubing is just, it seems too hard of a job.

Yeah.

So anyway, yeah, I'm on board

with what these young women are doing.

Before you move, are you ready to move on to the next one?

Yeah, let's go to something else.

Wait, but before you do,

I have to, I want to say something to our listeners.

I'm going to say this every episode now

until we hit like 500,000 subscribers.

I want to present a gentleman's agreement.

Do you know what a gentleman's agreement is, Sean?

I was born under a gentleman's agreement.

Good.

A gentleman's agreement.

I don't know what that means.

I actually don't know what it means.

So like, that was an error.

It's a non-papered contracted agreement.

So people tell us all the time that they get addicted

and they get obsessed with this podcast.

That is awesome.

And so it doesn't matter if you're on YouTube,

if you're on Spotify or you're on iTunes,

whatever you're using right now,

if this is the first episode you're listening to,

you get this one for free.

But if it's the second episode or more

that you've listened to, here's our gentleman's agreement.

You go to your YouTube app or whatever you're on

and you click subscribe or follow or whatever it is.

And you do that for us.

We make this for you.

We're your like little research laboratory rats.

We're doing all this crap for you.

Just go and do that for us because the more you do that,

the more views we're going to get,

the more hyped we get,

the more dopamine we get and the harder we work.

So that's our gentleman's agreement.

If this is your second plus episode,

just go and do that for us right now.

That's my gentleman's agreement.

And the goal is you said 500,000 YouTube subscribers?

I think we should just say 500,000.

I think we should just say 500,000 YouTube subscribers.

We've gone from 20,000 to 150,000 in the last year.

150 to 500 this year, 2023.

Yeah, all right, down 500,000.

And also, where's our plaque?

I don't know, dude.

I want the plaque.

Where is the plaque?

People talk about participation trophies

like it's a bad thing.

I want it.

I want that.

You say 80% of success is just showing up.

I showed up.

Where's my plaque?

We were supposed to get a plaque at 100,000.

It got sent to the HubSpot headquarters somewhere.

Darmesh is sitting there polishing our plaque,

showing it off at his parties like it's his.

Where is the plaque?

I need to know.

Where is the conspiracy?

And I told the people on Twitter

because I said, hey, who should keep the plaque?

Me, Sam, how are we gonna do this?

We're remote.

It's only one plaque.

They said they'll give you a bunch of them.

And then people said, small boy stuff.

You were worrying about 100,000 subscribed plaque.

And I said, you know what, you're right.

We're gonna take the plaque.

We're gonna take it to a field

and we're gonna destroy it

because it's totally small boy plaque.

We're not celebrating until we're at a million

but we need the plaque to destroy it, office-based style.

That is the idea.

I have no problem destroying your plaque.

Yeah, you frame yours, destroyed mine.

My point is, this is our gentlemen's agreement

and I'm gonna bring up our agreement

every single time we do a pod.

So that's it, that's all I gotta say.

We can go to the next segment.

I do think you totally misuse gentlemen agreement

but whatever, it's for the best.

Okay, you had a thing about Coffeezilla

and also two after things happened

after our previous episodes.

Number one, Tim Ferriss tweeted out our podcast.

Cool moment.

Tim Ferriss maybe was one of the first podcasts

I ever listened to.

Love that guy.

He listened to our section where we were talking about him

and my experience meeting him

and all that, your experience meeting him.

And he said, at first he emailed me, he just goes,

hey, heard the pod, loved it.

He goes, so funny, Sam was talking about how OCD I am

about editing things.

He goes, normally I am, but you edited a great thumbs up.

Don't worry about it.

And I was like, okay, good.

And then.

By the way, I hope he didn't take that as disrespect.

It was supposed to be a compliment.

Yeah. An admirable thing.

Ignore the words we say.

We're sucking up to you.

All right.

Whatever we say, we might make some foot faults on that,

but we just badly want to be your friend.

All right.

That's just all that you need to take away from any of this.

All right.

Second thing.

We did this episode with Billy McFarlane,

the guy from Fire Festival.

And I think you like hit him up

and hung out with him afterwards.

Is this true?

Yeah.

He on the pod or either like before after I forget,

I told him where I'm basically visiting family right now.

And he said, oh yeah, I'm right down the street from you.

And so I texted him and I just said, thanks for coming on.

Yeah, like I'm down the street from you.

And he said, great, you want to go hang out right now?

I go, yeah, sure.

Let's just go.

We'll go get my screen.

What'd you guys do?

We went and got, we got tea

because it was past three PM

and I didn't want to drink coffee.

So I got that is the move.

Don't do coffees anymore.

Ice cream.

Just take people out to ice cream.

It's funny. I don't want amazing.

It's an amazing move.

I didn't want to lick a thing in front of them.

I think that's weird.

But you got to get the spoon.

And so we went and hung out and we talked about like,

I can't talk about it all,

but we talked about like his family.

I just wanted to ask him,

I was like, tell me about how you were raised.

Like tell me about your family.

So I won't mention that stuff.

But we talked about family stuff.

And then we talked about like prison stories,

which she like mentioned on the pod a little bit.

And then I basically told him what I said here,

which was this idea that you had on the pod.

That's really stupid, man.

I bet you that you could charge startups

$20,000 a month and be like a consultant.

Just do that.

And he goes, yeah, let's talk about that.

And so we talked about that,

about like what we would do if we were in his situation

and what I think he should do.

And I talked about the mistakes he made and like,

why did you, what were you thinking?

And he basically expanded on what we talked about

in the pod, which was like,

I just didn't want to look stupid and I lied.

And I was embarrassed and I just got into this.

You know, I just did something bad,

but yeah, hanging out with them.

And here's my takeaway.

I understand why people believed him.

Very believable, very charming.

Like every time he talks.

Sounds like he did take you to ice cream after all.

Dude, yeah, like I got winded and done.

And I could honestly see myself becoming friends with him.

But at the same time, I'm like, are you doing it again?

So, you know, and that's what I told him.

I was like, it's hard for me to like.

Yeah, that's all right.

I think he was entertaining enough.

And I think he seemed fun.

Like, why not be friends with him?

And hey, even if he does it again,

it's that's my fuck up friend, man.

Everybody's got a fuck up friend who just keeps fucking up.

He might be yours.

It's okay if that's the worst case scenario.

Let's say he's the worst case scenario.

He kind of, you know, steps in in poo poo again.

Makes makes the bad decision.

Let's say that's the worst case scenario.

That's all right. No, no, no sweat.

I feel like you're a little scared

to just be friends with this guy.

Just be friends with him, dude.

I'll be friends with him.

I won't do any business with him for a long time

until like we've, you know, he's pretty.

Hang out with him in public together.

Are you ashamed?

I already did. I already did.

No, I hung out with him in public.

No. And if someone, if I was, if I was with him

and someone said something mean to him, I would be like,

dude, you got to, you don't do that right now.

Please.

Don't say that about my friend Billy.

Yeah. Don't say about my friend Billy

because here's the deal.

That's what I'm talking about.

Dude, he served his time.

So I've like a volunteer, I'm a saint, by the way.

I volunteered at prisons before.

So like I'm a real saint.

I've like worked with these types of people before.

Everyone gets a second chance.

And man, five years or how much did he serve four years?

That's a long fucking time.

That is a long time.

That is college, except like you don't leave your door room

ever, you know, like it's the worst.

And you don't, I think he paid the price.

So it was really exciting to kind of hang out with him.

What did you think about the pod with him?

Yeah, I thought it was good.

I thought he was, you know, likeable

and I thought he was interesting.

And I, all the same things you thought,

I thought he was likeable, I thought he was interesting.

You know, I thought he's, you know, owned up to what he did.

And he didn't try to deny it or deflect it

or give some BS excuses.

He was just like, yeah, I messed up.

I did it.

And I think that most people who lie,

don't lie because they're evil.

They lie because they're insecure.

And they lie because they're afraid.

I know this because anytime I lie

is because I'm insecure or afraid.

And so, you know, I don't really,

like I think that's a completely understandable thing.

And I think he did it at a scale, which was bad.

Obviously that affected people that was bad,

but also, you know, put it into perspective, you know,

like what did he do? He lied to professional investors

who, you know, in their diligence didn't uncover it,

they're fine, you know, no harm done for them.

There were some people that went to this festival

that got disappointed, that's, you know, unfortunate,

but, you know, okay, that was a bad, really bad party.

And then I think the worst thing was like the locals

of the island, I think were sort of left holding the bag

in some way.

I don't know the full details of that,

but I would say that's probably the most kind of harm done

from it.

And I don't think that was his intention at all, right?

I think his attention was to try to pull this thing off

and he tried to fake it till you make it

and he faked it and didn't make it.

And like, this is what happens when you fake it,

didn't make it, right?

So like, I think that he rightfully got convicted.

I think he served his time

and I don't hold that against him, I go forward.

I was just giving you a hard time

because I feel like you like the guy,

but you're trying to like slightly tiptoe a bit around it.

And I think your honest feeling is like,

I like this guy and it's fine.

And you know, like, let's move on with life

and see what he does from here.

That is my honest feeling.

I like him and I'm eager to see what he does,

but I'm still like, I'm still arm's length.

But here's what the fascinating thing

that I hung out with him.

I call it like the resistance.

So I've said this before, the world wants us to be vanilla.

They want us to put us in his box

and people who resist that.

So I'm entertained of you.

Where are you going with this?

People who resist that, I'm fascinated by them.

Even if they are truly a saint or if they're a criminal,

there's like this allure, this fascination

that I have with them no matter what.

And I think we all do, we all like that.

You know, people who are like,

this is why cult leaders are awesome.

You're like, oh my God, you're convincing me

that there's like another way of living.

And he has that same thing.

And there's levels to this is what I'm learning.

And his level of like, he kept telling me,

he was like, I thought I could pull it off.

And in my head, I'm like, you're fucking insane.

Everything, every little bit of evidence points

to you not being able to pull this off.

But there's something about you

that you think that you could pull this off

even when all the odds are against you

and you're delusional, you still believe it.

And there's something incredibly fascinating about this.

And it's so interesting that he raised $25 million

for a festival when he was 25 years old.

And he was just like, yeah, this is what we're gonna do.

I only look forward.

He was, I think he said on the pot,

he goes, I only look forward to like what's gonna happen.

And I was like, that's fascinating to me

because that is not what we're bullied into this box.

And anyone who resists that, I think is interesting to me.

I think you touched on something very, very true.

I used to say this all the time, I go,

I feel like the world is basking Robbins

but all 31 flavors are vanilla.

And I'm just, cause I was like, I look around

and it's all vanilla, vanilla over here,

another vanilla choice over there,

another vanilla choice over there.

Everybody's living these very vanilla lifestyles.

And I'm not gonna pretend I'm some Renaissance man,

adventurous, but in my own way,

I feel like I fight the good fight against vanilla.

I try to choose to live my life in a way

that makes sense to me, even if it is non-standard.

And that is something like deep inside,

deep inside the core, I feel that.

I feel that that's what I'm meant to do.

That's how I'm meant to live.

And I take great pride anytime I do something non-vanilla.

I try not to do it just for non-vanilla sake,

but actually sometimes I do that too, just to push it, right?

Like sometimes I just go and I go eat the caramel ribbons

or the bubblegum flavor, whatever.

I don't even like it.

The bubblegum flavor tastes nasty,

but I'll just do it just to remember,

remind myself not to be totally vanilla.

And so I am with you on that.

And that brings me to something that you tweeted out

that I wanted to talk about.

It's called the adventurous.

This is a-

How sick is that?

You tweeted something out about this, you go,

this, did you say that?

I don't know what you said.

This looks awesome.

I wanna do it.

I go to the website immediately.

I'm like, oh, this requires leaving the house,

not gonna do it, but let's just check out

what other people are doing.

The copywriting is so good.

The copywriting is great.

I'm just gonna read it out loud

because I think it is worthy of a little speech here.

So we're the adventurous.

This is what it says on the website.

We're fighting to make the world less boring.

Our planet used to slap us about the face cheeks

with iron fists of adventure every day.

Maps had edges to walk off,

whole continents lay undiscovered.

But now the entire surface of the earth

has been scanned by satellites

and shoveled into your mobile phone,

tagged with twattery about what restaurant serves

the best mocha latte frappe shit.

We live to find ways to make the world a bit more difficult.

We've lived to find the way to make the world

a bit more difficult,

to bring chaos into our over-sanitized lives,

to create adventures where you don't know

what will happen tomorrow or even if you'll make it.

Because we think there's no greater moment

than those seconds as you leap into an abyss

of uncertainty and potential disaster.

Okay, so this is...

Art.

Art.

Hello, artists out there.

You remember the episode where Sam declared

that he's an artist and he's got to create shit?

This is really amazing copywriting.

I think this is such a good example for the swipe file

of a, in my power writing course,

I'm gonna use this as one of the examples

of an us versus them frame with a status quo breaker

which says the status quo,

if they took something good,

which was that, wow, your mobile phone has the full map

and you can get directions,

you can find the best restaurants,

and they're like, you coddled little baby.

You are, you're living this over-sanitized life.

Don't you remember what you were put on this earth to do

and how life used to be back in the good old days?

And I think that that nostalgia, the us versus them,

this is amazing copywriting.

Are you gonna actually do one of their things?

Yeah, I messaged them and I said like,

I was like, hey, I'm gonna try and brag to you

because I wanna impress you, but here's who I am.

And I like, listed off a bunch of credentials,

I go, I'm not asking for a discount.

It's also a great copy.

How do you brag without,

how do you brag while nodding at,

look, I know what I'm doing here.

I know why I'm doing this.

I just wanna say this out loud.

Likeable brag.

Yeah, I emailed them.

I go, well, I'm gonna list a bunch of accomplishments

because I want you to know who I am.

I'm not exactly a somebody,

but I'm not exactly not a somebody.

Here's what I'm doing.

And I listed it out and I go,

the reason I'm explaining this is I'm gonna pay full price.

I'm not asking for any type of discount or anything like that.

But like, I wanna do one of the America one

and I want to baby like bring a bunch of friends

and like tweet about it and things like that.

Like when are you doing an America one?

Cause they basically what this company does

is you pay $1,900 or something like that.

It's pretty cheap.

And then they either give you a car or a motorcycle

or maybe a bicycle for different races.

And they host these races like in Mongolia

and they drop you off at point A.

And then it's like,

you have three days to travel 300 miles to point B.

And they literally just say, all right, everyone,

bye, we'll meet you at point B, figure it out.

And like one of those things is like,

you have to drive a mini bike, which is like a 50 CC,

which is a very small motorcycle.

It's basically what they wrote on Dumb and Dumber.

Another one is like a car that is a rickshaw,

which is like a, well, you know what a rickshaw is.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so like they do these crazy things.

And yeah, they're amazing.

And Sean, go to their FAQs for the event.

This is another like really good way to like explain

how to do copywriting because their FAQs,

they're discussing, go to like click one of the random races

and then go to like the FAQs.

They're discussing really serious topics

in an incredibly conversational way.

So they'll say like,

they'll say like, we plan on doing this

unless COVID ruins it, then it just ruins it.

Like they just like talk in a really-

Here's an example.

I clicked Mongolia and it says the route.

Mongolia is big, really effing big.

And driving through it

as any of you ex-Mongol Rallyers know

is brain squashingly awesome.

Thousands of miles of endless horizons,

mountains, dirt, roads, nomads, blah, blah, blah.

So riding through it on a motorbike designed for children

is simply resplendent.

I don't know what that means.

Mongolia calls the soul of a monkey bike

like a fly to shit.

Calls to the soul like a fly to shit.

And then it sort of explains what's going on.

And then go to the FAQs and you'll see like they're like,

you pay $1,900 with that comes your little mini bike,

some of which are good, some are bad,

but that's part of the excitement.

And they just like explain this like-

What will I eat?

Mutton, noodles, question mark,

whatever you bring with you, buy on the route

or are lucky enough to be offered along the way, period.

Next question.

Yes, how good is that?

Yeah, this is really cool.

Who's behind this?

Is this like-

It's just a guy.

I think it's just two guys, like two friends.

Like these like, I watch their videos.

They make launch videos for each one and just two guys.

It's really fascinating.

So I want to do one.

I don't want to travel to Mongolia

because like by the time they have it,

maybe I'll have like a kid or something.

I don't know, but like, I would like to like,

I like, if they were like,

if I could go to like Colorado or Canada

or like Mexico, I would do it.

We're more of like a convenient adventurous.

Yeah.

Looking for the call of the wild in my backyard.

Yeah, so they could do that.

Speaking of like levels and like content,

have you seen Coffeezilla?

I've seen Coffeezilla, yes.

Can we talk about this?

Yeah, let's talk about it.

I didn't watch this video that you sent me

that you wanted me to watch.

So I missed that, but you can break it down

or you could play it.

What do you want to do?

I don't even care about that video in particular,

but we could talk about it.

But let me give you the background about this guy.

I actually don't know his name.

What his real name is.

Do you know his real name?

Coffeezilla, no.

I don't think anybody, does anyone know his real name?

Yeah, they know.

The New Yorker just did a great piece on him.

But so his name is Coffeezilla.

He only has one point something million subscribers

on YouTube.

So he's not huge, huge yet, but he's growing quickly.

And yeah, small boy stuff.

He basically, his whole thing

is he wants to uncover internet scams,

not just internet, but mostly internet.

So guys like fellow podcast guests,

Ty Lopez, like he'll do a whole thing on Ty Lopez

or he'll do a whole thing on Andrew Tate

or whole thing on Dan Lok,

who's like another internet guy.

He answers the question that I often Google,

which is is X person legit?

Exactly.

And he's trying to answer that question.

And usually he's going in saying they're not legit.

And here's, here's what we know.

So he did this with, you know, a bunch of people.

And now he's doing a moment on Logan Paul.

Logan Paul had a thing called the crypto zoo,

I think it was called,

which was like this crypto project

that had all this shit going on.

But the point being,

he has the most attention to detail shit I've ever seen.

Like I saw this on Casey Neistat.

Casey Neistat, I'm like,

how are you making just your commute to work so fascinating?

It was like, because he had all these interesting shots

that were so thoughtful.

This guy has the same thing

where there'll be like a robot sitting

behind a bar and it's just like, you know, like,

oh, I had a tough day at work.

Coffee Zill is talking to like a fake robot.

And I'm like, how is this interaction so freaking good?

Or he'll like fly in people who worked with Logan Paul

and he'll interview them in person

and make this whole like 30 minute video

that's as good as 60 minutes.

And it's so fascinating.

And it just shows you that there's levels to like the game

and people who turn it up a notch,

I think they're rewarded.

Yeah, this guy, his production quality has gotten

like kind of insane recently.

And I think that, you know, he's thriving

on some of the big, you know, questions or controversies,

SBF, Logan Paul, who else did he do?

Jake Paul.

What's his name?

Andrew Tate, things like that.

Yeah, he's cool.

He's good.

And I really like this niche.

Like I think he's carved out like a really strong niche

and brand, like visual brand too.

So I think he's done a kind of amazing job

with his videos and his content.

But he kind of has pigeon told himself

and there's this one move that a lot of people make.

The liver king made it when he said,

I do not take steroids.

And now this guy is, he does the same thing where he says,

I do not make money through advertising, through ads

because I want you, the reader or the viewer

to be supporting me so I can make more genuine shit.

And I'm like, no, don't shut that off.

You may feel that way.

You may feel that way today.

But like Casey Neistat has this funny thing

where he was like, well, dude, I had a hundred million views

before I turned ads on my YouTube

because I thought I was being like an artist

and that was the stupidest thing ever

because like I had, I was so broke at the time

and I couldn't like make more videos.

And had I done that, I would have made an additional

million dollars or whatever it is.

And that's how exactly how I feel.

I'm like, dude, just take the money.

You could take the money and still be cool and ethical.

And by the way, we could put like a before and after

on the screen.

Like if you go back into his channel three years ago,

it's literally him in a messy bedroom.

He's like holding a mic up with his hand

and you know, he literally looks different.

His background looks different.

And that's like, you know, how he started.

And this, you can see the jump up in quality in three years

is like pretty insane, to be honest with you.

Three years isn't that long.

Dude, this podcast is three years old, I think.

And like just like the other day,

you like didn't even wear a shirt when you recorded.

Like, like.

It's a potential choice.

Like we still don't even,

I don't even have a camera that works yet.

I mean, like this guy, this guy who's killing it.

He's like a basketball hoop behind me now.

So we're moving up.

Like it took forever just to get a video camera that works.

And we still call it a video camera.

Like.

Like camcorder is broken.

Yeah, I had started to get a camcorder.

Yeah, his progress is wonderful.

Yeah, that's amazing.

All right, what else we got?

What other content you want to do?

I don't have anything.

Okay, wow.

The well runneth dry.

Okay, let me give you one.

Okay, here's a cool idea.

I'm going to hit you with a couple of cool ideas.

Okay.

Have you seen this website, gently.com?

No.

I think this is kind of a cool idea.

Basically it's, you know, like people,

you do this probably you'd probably buy like kind of vintage

leather goods or whatever off of like,

I don't know, whatever some like eBay or Poshmark or Depop.

There's all these secondhand marketplaces that exist.

So I just named three or four of them.

The real, real, right?

There's like all these different places you could go.

What gently did was pretty smart,

was they just said, all right,

how do we make a search engine?

So you just tell us what product you want.

We will go search all the different places

and then we will just send you text message alerts

as we find good deals on that thing here

and that brand or that item that you want.

I think this is pretty smart.

And then they cut a deal with all the different marketplaces

which is, hey, if we send you the customer,

we get to bring the customer to the buyer to you,

how do we get, you know, our 10% kit cut

or whatever it is off of that purchase?

I think this is anytime you have like a fragmented set

of places where something is,

the one stop search for it and search

and what they did smart was like these alerts.

So as soon as you put in that you're interested in something,

they'll just constantly alert you about this thing.

It's sort of like this like highly targeted, you know,

ad that they're sending you each time

and then you can go and you can buy the thing.

And I think this is pretty cool.

Saves the customer a bunch of time,

brings these marketplaces customers

and does it in a way that's like actually like pretty seamless.

I thought this was actually a pretty cool idea.

I'm gonna sign up for this.

You are right, you stereotype to me correctly.

You made some bold, you made a stereotype

and you're 100% correct.

I was looking at investing in it and I was like,

all right, let me just try using this thing.

And I was like, oh, I don't have like hobbies or tastes.

Like, you know, there's not a,

I don't know any of these brands.

I don't buy any vintage goods

or like, you know, exclusive designer things.

And so I didn't really know what to do with it,

but you try it out, tell me if it's good.

Well, it looks like it's for women mostly

because it's Poshmark, that's mostly women.

I think only women, or mostly women.

The real, real, mostly women.

I actually just went to the real, real yesterday.

They have a story where I'm staying.

It's mostly women, I believe, but no, I like this.

I don't know if this could be a big business.

Wouldn't the margins be like nothing?

Yeah, because you're taking a cut of a cut.

So I think that's the hard part.

You have to have like really high volume.

But I do think it's enough of an interesting wedge

where like they'll probably need a second miracle.

Meaning if they have to, the first miracle

is getting this popular

where people start using this all the time.

And then the second miracle is gonna be something like,

you know, they create their own, you know,

supply on the marketplace

or they create their own marketplace out of this

or they gotta do something, maybe it's a subscription.

I don't know, they have to come up with some other thing

that's going to gotta make this work.

So I do think that that's the, that's the second thing.

All right, let me give you an idea now.

You've used ClickFunnels, correct?

Yeah, I have, I've made a lot of money using ClickFunnels.

If I asked you, what is ClickFunnels great at?

Why would anybody use ClickFunnels?

Quickly spin up drag and drop landing pages

that can also accept money.

And the landing page, well,

there's a bunch of landing page builders

that are drag and drop, why ClickFunnels?

Is it better design?

Is it faster, easier to use?

What is the benefit?

It's mostly horribly designed.

It looks like it was designed with like a set of crayons.

And the reason it's like it.

That's the perfect way to say it.

Yeah, it looks like someone like just got

like a red and blue crayon and like whiteboard it.

They just like, turn that into a website.

So no, it just has a three or four features

that are exactly what you need

for getting money quickly on a website.

And I think one of them, the way I would describe it,

it's called ClickFunnels for a reason,

which is that they are, they're specifically funnels.

So they're like designed to convert a customer

through a funnel, the funnel might have both steps.

It might be like, first we're gonna grab their email.

We're gonna optimize for grab email.

Then once they grab the email,

we're gonna then offer them this upsell

or we're gonna then ask them to pay.

And if they don't pay, then they'll go here and funnel.

The whole point of their software

is to get your money to become my money.

And that's like what they do.

They go, you have someone on your website.

How do you get the money in their bank account into yours?

And they make it easy.

So you can like-

Exactly, perfect.

Wow, you're a fire.

You accept an email, you get the sale,

you do an upsell, you do all this stuff

and they're unashamed.

Whereas like a Shopify-

The funnel will be like, it'll be like upsell one.

Then if they say yes, hit them with upsell two.

If they say yes, hit them with upsell three.

If they say no, hit them with downsell.

Downsell one, downsell two, downsell three.

What the hell are these?

I literally don't even have enough products

to like fill your funnel.

I don't have downsell products.

What are these?

But it works.

It was quite effective.

It works.

And I think ClickFunnels does over 100 million in revenue

or something like that.

They throw that 100 million number around a lot.

I don't know if it's more than that now.

I think it's way more than that now.

It's like a lifetime or an annual thing.

I think their churn is really high.

That's the problem with these things is like the churn,

like that attitude of like make your bank account,

my bank account, that doesn't exactly have the most

like the best longevity, but yeah.

Your customers are kind of piece of shit marketers.

Yeah, you're like bullying them, yeah.

I think, so I think somebody can make a ClickFunnels 2.0.

In fact, I think we could make ClickFunnels 2.0.

I think if we used our brand,

we could create a better ClickFunnels.

Which is what the guy did, Russell Brunson.

He had a, he was like a content guy.

I mean, he like had masterminds and shit like that.

But he had like a huge email list

and then he like launched the software.

And it wasn't great at first.

In fact, it's still not really that great.

If there are any developers or designers

that don't use crayons, you know,

build us a ClickFunnels competitor.

We will promote it.

Because ClickFunnels is honestly a very useful tool.

It is very-

Super useful.

Good at doing the job,

which is the your money to my money thing,

which is exactly what a lot of people want.

And it's simple.

And that's the beauty of it.

When you make a ClickFunnels page,

it's like there's no navigation.

There's no footer.

There's no scroll.

It's like, yeah, there's a giant box

that says give me your fucking email.

And it says, it's like a flashing button.

And it says, if you click this thing with your email,

something real good is gonna happen.

And like they'll,

it might be something good, I guess I'll put my email in.

And for some reason,

I don't know why this is still a thing.

When you sell a product there,

all of the product images are like pictures of DVD

and PC game boxes.

Do you know what I mean?

It's a box that always-

It's like a CD.

Dude, I don't even own a thing that could accept a CD.

Why is this product always like a set of CDs?

Yeah, exactly.

It still looks like that.

Because it's infomercial, right?

It's the equivalent of an infomercial, but online.

So I think somebody clicked ClickFunnels.

I also think specifically for e-commerce,

there's not really a ClickFunnels for e-commerce.

There's a bunch of people

who think they're ClickFunnels for e-commerce.

And trust me, I am in e-commerce.

I have tried to build funnels using Shogun, Builder,

all of these guys.

Nobody's done it.

Nobody has made it simple.

Nobody has made it stupidly obvious

where you hit the customer over the head with the offer.

And like, that's all you really need to do.

And I've looked at so many of these

and nobody has, nobody's made it dumb enough.

Everybody makes it too smart.

And so I think there's generally like a ClickFunnels 2.0.

And I think that there's ClickFunnels for e-commerce

is an opportunity that's out there.

And I think you would need,

like you'd either need to be a Russell Brunswick type of guy

where you are going to independently build your brand

as a smart, entrepreneur, or marketer type dude,

or you should partner with,

or like someone like us

who already has that audience in that brand

can distribute a product like this and get it to,

I don't know,

probably somewhere between like three and six million ARR

just off of our audience.

If the product is actually good,

but the product actually has to be good.

Have you heard of, well,

so another thing that ClickFunnels did,

like these guys are really fascinating.

And at first I was a hater on them.

And then I was like, oh no, they're all right.

The conferences?

Their conferences are a little cringe, but still cool.

Like I respect it.

But they make money off info products.

And this was so fascinating and so smart.

So a lot of big software companies,

they're like, dude,

I'm not going to sell anything by the software

because like this one thing makes so much profit

and revenue, like I'm just doing this one thing.

And they were like, nah, F that.

See, we don't have a lot of money to spend.

So we're bootstrapped.

Our marketing is going to be profitable.

And so they write like guides and do all this stuff

and they'll charge like $100 for like a book.

And when you buy that book,

you're automatically like get a,

you know, a month free of click funnels.

And they basically, when they hit a hundred million

in revenue, it was 80 million in subscription revenue

and 20 million in info product revenue.

And they would create these info products and sell it.

And that's good because they would acquire a customer

for a break-even amount for an info product

and automatically add them into their subscription revenue

for their software.

And that was really fascinating.

I thought it was a great idea.

And they've proven that it can work really nicely.

Yeah, I think in general break-even marketing

is a phrase I've used in every,

every single company I've built,

which is like, what is a version of our marketing

that itself is a, not a cost center as a profit center.

It doesn't have to be the main marketing channel,

but like we should do something like for you,

HustleCon was a good example of this, right?

It's like, I'm going to do HustleCon.

It's going to get people to find out about the hustle.

It's going to take people who like us and make them love us

and make them super evangelists.

And it's going to get all these speakers to come speak.

That'll become content.

So that's marketing there.

But you were like, yeah, but this is not just like a money pit.

Now we need to make money on our marketing.

And I just feel like most people don't really consider that,

but at TwitchCon, when I was at Twitch,

it's the same thing.

Twitch, there's this thing called TwitchCon.

It's this like, I don't know, 30, 40, 50,000 people

something show up to this thing.

It's all the Twitch community.

Did they make money off that?

And they don't really try to make money off of it.

But the merch store at TwitchCon, literally the line is like,

it's like, imagine like the San Diego Conference Center

or whatever, which is like a three mile long building

or some shit like that.

The line is the entire three miles.

It's like the craziest line you've ever seen.

People waiting slowly, like hours to go in to buy your hoodie.

And I was like, this is crazy.

How much are we making off this?

And like, it was like, you know, run by this like two person team.

It wasn't really like the main focus.

And like, you know, the event itself, you know, has sponsors

stuff that they did have revenue.

But like, I felt like there could be so much more that was done.

There was so much more like potential to commercialize that thing.

And I get it, which is like in your company of Twitch's size,

you don't need to worry about making a couple million bucks off this thing.

But if you shrink that down, it still kills me.

It still kills me.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

It's like, well, first of all, you should have just been able

to sell more merch just like by being more efficient.

Like, you know, how many people didn't wait in this four hour line?

You know, that that's just like one thing all together.

The second thing is if you're not Twitch, you're not generating, you know,

call it billion dollars of revenue.

If you're ClickFunnels or the hustle, you're a normal size business.

These these break even marketing things, a marketing event that makes you

five hundred K or one point five million or something like that.

That's actually quite meaningful compared to it losing five hundred

K or losing a million dollars, which is where most companies default to.

And I think just with a little bit of creativity, you could turn a lot of

cost centers into profit centers or at least break even when it comes to marketing.

Dude, there's this attitude that I've been having lately.

So I've been working on this like new project and I've switched my attitude.

When I was starting the hustle, I was like, I'll do anything for any

advertiser to make any amount of money.

Like, whatever, dude, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm like, whatever, I just need I need pennies.

Give me pennies. I'll do it all.

And I'm like, yeah, sure.

Like, you know, you know, the rules said no CBD, but like, you know, like what's

if I have an eraser, we can erase that rule.

And now I've been like saying, like, nope, this is what it is.

I say no to everything and like, oh, this person wants to join.

I don't really feel like it.

Let's just raise the price really high so they don't want to join.

Or like, you know what I mean?

Or like, like, like this, this, this, this type of attitude, it's made,

it's made the businesses so much more successful having that attitude.

And like, it's pretty funny, you know, you know, like there is this hot girl

that I knew and I was like, and she was like joking.

And she was like, my motto for getting dudes is treat them mean, keep them keen.

The meaner I treat them, the happier and more they want me.

And I was like, that's the greatest thing ever.

I'm going to do that with my life.

Of course, it didn't work with women, but it's kind of worked with business.

It's treat them mean, keep them keen.

It's like the more we say no, the more they want it.

And I can't believe it's worked that way.

Dude, rhyming is just an underrated strategy in general.

Let me just put that out there.

I don't know what the hell she's talking about, but it rhymed.

And that made me feel good.

Maybe think that she's got her shit together.

Dude, treat them mean, keep them keen.

You lived in Australia, keen means like, you know, like you like them.

Yeah, you shouldn't need a dictionary for your catchphrases.

I was my personal opinion.

Well, you didn't know who Dolly Parton was, though, so like you don't really know anything.

All right, let's let's wrap it there.

I still got some more, but it's there's too late.

The episode of bring it up now.

All right, I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like no days off on a road.

Let's travel never looking back.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.