Mamamia Out Loud: Our New Favourite Nepo Baby Fiasca

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Mamma Mia Out Loud!

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud, what women are talking about on Friday, the 31st of March.

I'm Holly Wainwright and it's important to note that today we are lying to you.

I'm not here, none of these people are here because we are at Jesse's wedding

and who is lying to everybody with me?

Mia Friedman I am.

Mother of the group.

Sam at Yoda.

Mia I am.

Mia I am.

And Claire, Stephen, I am a bridesmaid.

And I'm giving a speech.

Mia's giving a speech.

We could have squeezed in a record on Friday morning but both of these two in the wedding party,

they have important stuff to do.

I just have to put on some lipstick and turn up and drink some champagne so I'm fine.

But we'll fill you in on all things Jesse's wedding next week.

If you're new to Out Loud, what the hell are we talking about?

Our usual co-host Jesse Stevens is getting married today so we're recording a little early.

On today's show is what the media is ignoring today, what historians are going to be talking about

and studying tomorrow.

Plus lap dances, strippers and Chris Brown.

I know it sounds weird but this is all about what constitutes cheating in 2023.

And our best and worst of the week, which range from early starts to Hens' parties

to I've got a little retraction for one of mine, but first.

In case you missed it, this is the best story of the week or possibly of all time.

Sophia Coppola is a Nepo baby actually.

She is the daughter of Francis Ford Coppola who is a very famous director.

I think he directed The Godfather.

She is an acclaimed director herself.

She has made films including Lost in Translation, Marie Antoinette.

She's great.

Anyway, that's not what we're talking about.

She has a daughter whose name is Romy Mars.

She is Sophia Coppola's daughter with Thomas Mars,

who is the front man of indie French band Phoenix.

I don't know them but Thomas Mars is quite famous I think or used to be.

Anyway, why are we talking about the daughter of the daughter of someone famous?

She has been on TikTok this week explaining how she's been grounded

because she stole her dad's credit card and used it to charter a helicopter

from New York to Maryland because she wanted to have lunch with her friend

who was at summer camp.

She's 16 years old.

Here is a little bit of the TikTok she made about it.

Make a vlog because I'm grounded

because I tried to charter a helicopter from New York to Maryland

on my dad's credit card because I wanted to have dinner with my girlfriend.

Also, I thought I would do this since I'm already grounded

because my parents made these rules like I don't want to have any public social media accounts.

Here's why.

Because they don't want me to be a leftist in Canada.

And this is Ari.

My baby's there as my friend because my parents are never home.

So I just wrote this in the comments.

What do you think about the helicopter fiasco?

Oh, I like fiasco.

Does she talk that fast?

No, she doesn't.

It's a TikTok thing where you speed it up.

I don't know why.

She also trolled her father.

She's like, I'm not meant to be on social media because, you know,

my dad apparently is famous because of this.

And she grabbed his Grammy.

I think he's won a Grammy.

I'm like, held it up to the camera and just sort of shrugged.

It's just so completely glorious.

The thing I love about it is that everybody is saying,

yeah, yeah, yeah, Sophia Coppola, great, great director.

The real talent in this family is Romy because that video was just excellent.

The speeding up of the story, the tension.

She made a pastor.

Vodka pastor.

Very important.

But the tension between my parents don't want me to be a nepo baby.

So they've grounded me for taking my dad's credit card and getting the helicopter.

I'm like, yes, yes.

And then she goes up to her babysitter's boyfriend,

who she says is pretty much her parent.

Because my parents are never home.

She says, out.

Yeah.

And the irony of her saying, oh, they don't want me on social media,

but I won't get famous on TikTok.

Oh, sweetie, this is great content.

She is the next great talent.

I love it so much.

Out Loudest, we want to hear what you did to get grounded when you were kids.

I did a few things which I might share in the Out Loudest Facebook group

and not on this podcast.

You can share it on Instagram.

You can leave us a message or you can go into the Out Loudest Facebook group.

Oh, I loved it.

One night this week, I was doom scrolling on Twitter

and I found a really interesting thread.

It was posted by a tech writer named George Mack and it read,

my favorite question in 2023, what is ignored by the media

but will be studied by historians?

This isn't like some Q and on conspiracy.

The media are covering up blah, blah.

No, he had nine examples and he went through the fentanyl epidemic,

which is absolutely terrifying.

That's more specific to the US and he had facts about how police have seized

enough fentanyl to kill the entire population of the United States.

Really scary stuff.

The fentanyl epidemic in the US is basically the street use of...

What is fentanyl?

Jesse had fentanyl when she hurt her leg.

It's like morphine.

It's a very strong opioid that is being abused in really shocking numbers in the US now.

Very addictive.

Very addictive, very powerful, very dangerous.

You can die from it, right?

And they cut street drugs with it.

So there are all these terrifying statistics about how much cocaine is cut with fentanyl,

how much heroin is cut with fentanyl.

So it's adding to, you know, America's got this terrifying opioid epidemic,

which there's signs that it's growing here, but big deal there.

I read that it was like a hundred times more addictive than heroin.

Now I remember, okay.

It's a great point for him to make because the fact is when you work in media,

when a story is just ongoing for a decade, you can't report on it every day.

So you get fatigue, but he's saying if we zoom out and look at this,

if you look at a graph of the use and how cause of death has changed in young people,

we will be studying this.

He also says we'll also look back at the way in which negative media headlines get more clicks

and how there's almost a formula to show how much negative words encourage click through.

So with every negative word in a headline, people are 2% more likely to click.

That, again, is one of those things that just becomes wallpaper when you work in media.

What was interesting about this is that he said it changed really dramatically in 2010.

Now what happened in 2010 is not that the internet was invented,

but the algorithm started to be used.

And we know that the algorithm, which means the way social media companies decide what you're going to see in your feed,

because it's not just about who you follow.

It's what content the algorithm and the social media company want to show you.

It's all designed to get you as engaged as possible and watching as long as possible.

And every study shows that every algorithm knows that anything that makes you feel extreme in a negative way,

outrage, scared, angry, distressed, disturbed, anxious, they're all the things.

So basically our whole worldview is being shaped by an algorithm.

Because when you read all these headlines, you start to think that the world is an anxious, awful, horrible place.

He also talked about a mating crisis and how people are having less sex than ever.

I feel like I've read a lot of headlines about that.

I'm not convinced the media is ignoring that.

But it's one of those things that I think you'll be reading about in history books as a trend.

But why are there more men than women or more women than men?

Why is there a mating crisis?

I mean, he had another one about testosterone levels changing.

I think it's also to do with the way we live and being more isolated.

So this is the depressing tension.

But I think really the big trend will be disconnection, right?

Like really.

I agree.

Freddie DeBoa, who we talk about a lot as an American writer,

his newsletter this week was so depressing about just generations of people who are designing their lives

or think they're choosing to design their lives to avoid connection as much as possible,

which is so bad for us.

And they think they're choosing to do that.

But really it's all been designed by the algorithms for profit.

And it's just absolutely devastating.

I drive past bus stops a lot.

And if you drive past bus stops at the beginning of the day or at the end of the day,

when there's lots of school kids around, not one person is talking.

There might be 60 kids at a bus stop and every single one of them from, you know,

the youngest to the oldest is looking at a phone.

And that's something that just changed so quickly.

Really quickly.

It's terrifying.

But the one out of his nine examples, all of them, which I could talk about forever,

one that really got my attention.

I thought that is so true was the homeschooling boom.

So this is in America specifically.

This is in America.

So he says in 1971, 78,000 kids were homeschooled in America.

In 2021, 5 million kids were homeschooled in America.

Obviously, pandemic has a lot to do with that.

However, independent of the pandemic, there has been growth in the homeschooling sector.

His theory is zoom classes during the pandemic gave parents an insight into the state of the education system.

And one size fits all doesn't make sense anymore.

His prediction is that there will be a billion dollar homeschool company created in the next 10 years.

And when I read that sentence, I thought, let's do it.

Oh my gosh.

I keep having great business ideas, but I just don't have the time.

Well, I just can't think of anything worse than homeschooling, but I like it as a business idea.

That's so interesting.

I think there's another couple of components to that.

One obviously is the internet because in 1971 to homeschool, I don't even know how you would do that.

There are resources available.

But it's also to me about the decline of our faith in experts and our belief that we can do everything.

And to me, in some ways, there's arrogance involved in that.

Like, we know that a lot of teachers really resented us talking about homeschooling during the pandemic,

because they're like, no, you're not, you're not a teacher.

You're not homeschooling.

You're supervising.

You're supervising home learning.

And it's like, yeah, yeah.

Okay, got it.

We understand now how hard your job is.

If the pandemic taught me anything, it's that I'm not cut out to firstly have my kids at home all day,

secondly, make that my full-time job, and thirdly, teach.

Like, I didn't become a teacher because I don't think I'm very good at it and it's not something I'm interested in doing.

I think that this is really insightful trend.

I'd love to know what the statistics are in Australia, but I bet they're also on the rise.

And I think part of it is to do with something that we've been talking about a lot this week as a kind of theme,

because this is an American story to start with.

It's about values.

So it's about parents being worried about the values that schools are teaching their kids for a whole variety of reasons

and thinking we'll do better at home in instilling the values that we have,

whether that's religious diversity, cultural diversity, whatever.

Another reason, though, will be the rise of diagnosis of neurodiversity,

because what they say there about one-size-fits-all doesn't make sense anymore.

That is something that is being talked about more and more and more,

about the fact that the traditional school model cannot possibly cope with

and tailor itself to the needs of a whole cohort of very diverse kids neurologically.

If you start talking to a lot of parents of neurodiverse kids,

they will immediately start talking about suspensions and discipline

and how their kid is being branded as naughty and being excluded at times.

And that their kids are diagnosed with various neurodiversity.

And then you'll also talk to a lot of parents who are like,

there are too many kids who need special care in my kids' class,

and my kids getting ignored because they're all over there dealing with the neurodiverse kids.

This is becoming more and more and more of a flashpoint in schools.

Do you think it's a good thing or not, though,

because when we were talking earlier in the week about books being banned in schools in America,

and I made a flip comment that upset a lot of librarian out louders.

I said something like, oh, I didn't even know they still had school libraries.

It was a throwaway comment, but I didn't mean it because a lot of out louders said,

well, hang on a second, school libraries are a place of safety for a lot of kids in a place of refuge.

And school libraries and schools are a safe place for some kids who might have all sorts of problems at home.

My point, though, is if people are homeschooling,

what school gives kids is exposure to other kids and other views and teachers and different opinions.

If parents are keeping kids at home, partly because they want to be in control of everything that kid has access to in terms of information,

is that good or are we just making lots of little tiny bubbles?

My personal view is that it's not good because I think back to the original point about disconnection is a problem there.

But I'm saying I can understand, I understand why there's more and more disillusionment with various forms of education

that don't suit lots of different kinds of kids.

I would also say that people are looking at the education system

and realizing that, yes, there are kids with neurodiversities who it doesn't suit.

But there are also a lot of primary school teachers would say this doesn't suit boys.

This idea of sitting down in a classroom all day, the girls are thriving and the boys are not.

I'm going to put my capitalist hat on.

If there is a billion dollar homeschooling company, does that maybe put pressure on the government to put a whole lot of money into education?

Does that then rise the entire education sector to create competition?

I wish because the thing is that that billion dollar homeschooling company will be the privilege of the privileged, right?

Because vast majority of ordinary in inverted commas families are not set up to be homeschooling.

People have to work.

Families have to work.

Family members have to work.

The level of investment and time and educating yourself that it would take to the properly.

And I know there will be people listening to this who do homeschool their kids for a variety of reasons

and will feel like they're often dismissed and I don't mean to do that at all.

But I think that this will just be another option for the privileged rather than being something that might actually affect the vast majority of schools.

And I think that Australia is probably going to be very susceptible to it because we have a weird education system here

where we have this obsession with private education and independent schools that isn't echoed in other parts of the world.

And I think that if it's marketed as a status thing, it probably has legs.

It will take a lot of women out of the workforce.

Well, not just women, but mostly women.

Let's be honest, it'll take women out of the workforce.

It's a little bit like the conversations that so often happen in families, you know,

compare the cost of childcare to what the mother's earning without taking into account all the other benefits for women

of having financial independence and being out in the world and being connected.

So it's just a social change that will come if there's this big move to homeschooling.

I need to tell you about what happens at a Chris Brown concert.

I know many people will be like, I don't think I want to know because Chris Brown is he's a very successful still singer from America.

He is most famous for being charged with domestic battery of his then girlfriend Rihanna all the way back in 2009.

So a lot of people don't know the name Chris Brown from then, but you may or may not be shocked to know he still exists.

He's still out in the world and he actually has a massive, massive fan base.

So he's touring England and Ireland as part of his world tour right now.

And as part of his show, what he does is he sings a love song called Take You Down and it's a very sexy love song.

And what he does as part of that is he gets a girl out of the crowd.

Somebody goes and picks the girl for him.

Take You Down doesn't sound very romantic or sexy.

And they sit down on a chair on the stage and Chris Brown gives them a sexy lap dance.

It seems to me like a risky strategy, but let's just assume for the purposes of this story that it's all deeply consensual and everyone's having a good time.

You can find these videos because there are loads of them all over TikTok and everything because he does it at every show, the different women.

Like Harry Styles reading the fans signs.

Yes, it's part of his shtick for the tour or Taylor Swift diving into something.

I keep seeing that on TikTok too.

But one of these stunts has attracted a lot of attention because of the boyfriend of the woman.

So the woman goes up there, she's sitting in the chair, Chris Brown's grinding on her.

She looks like she's having the time of her life.

Big smile.

The boyfriend posts the video and says POV.

That means point of view.

Which, I mean, it's a separate issue, but TikTok doesn't seem to really understand what point of view means.

They use it in a really strange way.

Here's something that happened to me.

Which is in what point of view means, but anyway, I'll continue.

POV.

Buying my girlfriend front row tickets to see Chris Brown.

I want my £500 and my girlfriend back.

£500 is around $900.

People say that's how much it cost for front row tickets to see Chris Brown.

Was he with the girlfriend?

Yeah, yeah.

They were both there.

And then lots and lots of people posted and said, oh my God, how disrespectful.

Oh, that's terrible. And then he posted an update.

Just to update everybody regarding the Chris Brown concert.

I'm no longer with my girlfriend because she doesn't think she did anything wrong.

He must have been listening to our segment earlier in the week about announcements about breakups.

He thought everyone should know.

I posted one video of my girlfriend.

You're wondering.

Now, I don't condone this controlling nonsense of this boyfriend dumping his girlfriend about the lap dance.

I don't.

I think it's nonsense, but it led me to question.

It wasn't nonsense for him.

I know, but like, she wasn't really getting a lap dance.

She was part of a stunt at a Chris Brown concert.

Like, it's fine anyway.

But there have been a lot of weddings and therefore bucks and hens parties and everything in our worlds lately.

And once I've heard about all still definitely seem to involve strip clubs and lap dances and similar things.

Both male and female, that surprises me.

I kind of thought that maybe we devolved past that having to be a part of a box or a hens thing.

That that was a necessary right of passage shows how out of touch I am.

I mean, I get it if you're like a strip club lap dance type of person, but not everybody is.

What type of person is that?

Well, some people go to strip clubs all the time just for fun, like Friday night strip club time.

Like, some people do that.

Well, you imagine the guy that we spoke about on Wednesday's show who did the disgusting vows.

He'd love a strip club.

Like, he would have done some bad things on his box mine.

So with the Chris Brown story out there with books, hens, is it cheating?

Is it something to get upset about that your partner seems to be having a very good time gyrating with the stranger in a sort of performative situation?

Claire Stevens recently married.

Tell me everything.

So my partner has been to his bucks, Luca's bucks and another friend's bucks in the last six weeks.

He's been bucking a lot.

He's been bucking a lot.

What do they all have in common these days, these kind of things?

Strippers.

Mia, I'm very great to inform you.

There were strippers.

Oh, I've heard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There were strippers.

So strippers, some funny games.

There's nothing wrong with strippers.

Trying to make.

Sure, we've got some out loud strippers.

Yeah.

It's a bonding thing.

It's homosociality.

I like how you threw Luca under the bus, but not your husband who also had a stripper.

I'm reliably informed.

He did.

And I think, I mean, for one, I hope none of the people who are at any of those bucks are

listening, but just FYI, your partner tells you everything.

Like, I've heard everything.

I've heard.

I do.

I'm pretty sure I have.

I also, as soon as he got back from his bucks and he was very drunk, I picked up his phone

through every photo and video, which I bet out loud as will be mad at me for that.

But it is not a trust issue.

It was genuinely that it was funny.

That's gold.

And it was absolutely hilarious, the selfies that they got when they were drunk.

But were you like nervous about the stripper thing?

No, no.

And I think that with this story, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is that clearly

there were either problems in that relationship or that guy was incredibly insecure.

And therefore his girlfriend getting a lap dance on stage in front of thousands of people

is somehow threatening to him.

The biggest difference here, the only thing in this world that would upset me if my partner

did it would be if it happened in private.

If it is in public, then it's not to me.

No, you don't mean like at a concert public.

You mean he didn't go into a special room.

He isn't going for private dances every Friday night.

Exactly.

Like years and years ago, my partner and I were in Amsterdam.

We went to a sex show.

And it was hilarious because you could just tell that my partner was the most uncomfortable

person there because he was young and gangly.

It looked like he hadn't quite hit puberty.

And the woman on stage, clearly great sense of humour grabs him up and puts him on stage.

And he has to pull a string out of her vagina.

Hilarious.

That obviously does not bother me.

I'm not threatened by that.

I think that when the line gets crossed is when things are happening behind closed doors.

It's not a box at a concert, whatever.

There are people watching.

You're not going to do something you believe is dishonest.

That's what makes it so weird.

In front of everyone.

And I mean, it happens at Hens as well, really, doesn't it?

I think for this guy, it wasn't the lap dance.

It was the humiliation.

The pressure from all the other bros.

You've been embarrassed.

You've been humiliated.

You've been cuckolded, whatever.

But I mean, I took my husband to a strip club once for his birthday.

Was that fun?

Yeah, it was fine.

It was fun.

It was fun.

I think it was fun.

But in terms of Buck's nights, which is often these days, Buck's weekends.

What I find is that the Buck generally isn't into it.

Like, he's stressed.

He's going to his wedding.

He's got like, and there's a real...

He's on high alert that his friends might do something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's an aspect of saddism about the people around the Buck or the Hen,

particularly the Buck, where it's like, I don't know if it's a vicarious living out

of the things that they can't do if they're married now or with partners or whatever.

But there's a weird mentality about it.

I don't know any Buck's who were like, the best part was the stripper.

They enjoy watching him be uncomfortable.

And that's a really important part of it.

I always think that must be uncomfortable for the stripper who turns up,

who knows that she's been given a job.

And there must be so hard.

They are very, very good at it, though.

Like, I've heard from my partner, there's a very funny story about Lucas.

His stripper had a great sense of humor.

But it's like there are these things that culturally or socially we're told we have to do,

but it's not really clear who it's for.

But what I find interesting about the Chris Brown situation is there has never been outrage like this about the situation in reverse.

You'd never see a man who you don't know, just a random man pulled on stage,

given a lap dance by Rihanna Cardi B, whatever, and think his girlfriend should be outraged.

You'd never think it.

It's quite controlling.

I might think it.

I mean, I think that Mia's right that this instance is about dented masculine pride.

And I think when the guy posted it, he was kind of making a bit of a lol when he was like,

I want my money and my girlfriend back.

But then I think it was the reaction that got him to kind of say that he had to be.

But I would not be stoked.

I would not be stoked if my partner was clearly very much enjoying a lap dance in front of all those people.

And I was there.

I wouldn't love it.

Like, I wouldn't break up with him.

That would be inconvenient and expensive.

But I wouldn't be thrilled.

I think there is a darker side to this.

We can sit here and say, you know, the people we know,

you know, they're always really honest about what happens.

But I remember a few years ago, Constance Hall made a post on Facebook that went absolutely nuts

where she talked about the differences between Bucks and Hens parties.

And she said she knows lots of stories about men cheating on Bucks nights.

Lots and lots and lots.

And there's a line that sometimes the dancer isn't a dancer.

They're a sex worker and there's a different line there.

And she told some eye-opening stories about that.

And so it was quite common and lots of guys did it and it seemed like no big deal.

And she talked about how women will get really drunk,

pour at the stripper a bit and then start crying

and sharing lots of stories with each other about what's really going on at home

or how they don't get out much anymore or whatever.

And that's a massive and crude generalization.

But I don't think that all Bucks weekends are so innocent, really.

And I find it really interesting that it's still such an entrenched tradition

among otherwise quite progressive and enlightened.

Because the whole tradition of it is meant to be your last hurrah before you're tied down forever.

But actually in reality, most of the time couples have lived together a long time.

The commitment was made a long time ago.

And also who wants to think of themselves as the ball and chain who's stopping anyone from having any fun.

So some couples do them together.

I know.

And our producer M went did one of these on the weekend called Hux

because they've got all the same friends and they're like, let's do it together.

And I don't know.

I find it a bit surprising that we're still in stripper land.

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Best and worst of the week.

Hull, you have a clarification, a retraction and apology. What is it as your words?

I do.

So, you know, last week, I think it was on Wednesday's show,

you and Jesse and I talked about General Tager,

who is the actress who plays Wednesday in the Netflix hit show.

And she'd given an interview on Dax Shepard where she appeared to slag off the director's producers of Wednesday

and said that she had to intervene to make her part more unbelievable.

And she rewrote some lines and we talked about it and we broadly all said,

she sounds like a nightmare. That's broadly what we all said.

Did you guys point out the parallel with Catherine Heigl?

Yes, we did.

And whether or not she was the new Catherine Heigl.

Yes, yes.

We also pointed out that the people who've jumped on to criticize her

are not people who actually worked with her.

There are other people in the industry.

But then I did something that I know as a journalist,

you always do normally before you opine about something publicly,

but I didn't have time before the last show and I listened to the entire interview.

And Jenna Otega.

That's an idea.

Research.

It's not okay.

That interview with Dax Shepard and Monica Padman goes on for 90 minutes

or however long those bloody interviews go for.

And in it, she basically says how much she hates doing interviews

because everything that comes out of her mouth never sounds the way it did in her head,

how she's a ball of anxiety,

because basically she's been in a competitive industry since she was a kid

and she was basically homeschooled by Disney and it was all awful.

She says how the pressure of now being in this hit show has completely messed with her head

and she feels like she's got all this responsibility for all these different people's jobs

and family and all this stuff.

And she basically sounded deeply insecure and anxious

and then listening to it, knowing what was going to happen next,

which is that she was going to be shamed, thrown to the dogs,

criticised all over the internet, called a diva, all those things.

So this is the interview in which she said those comments.

She was already saying, I'm a mess.

If you listen to that and then you know what then happened,

that guy, I can't remember his name now,

but that came out who'd never worked with her and came out and slagged her off for it

and all the people who jumped on,

that girl will be rocking in a corner because that's exactly what she was worried about happening.

You could hear in the thing, Dax and Monica say,

is there anyone in your life who you're trusting to give you good advice at the moment?

She says no.

Oh, God.

How old is she?

She's 20.

Oh, God.

And she was a Disney star.

So this isn't her first rodeo.

No, but it's her first at that level.

Yeah.

And she's clearly a very anxious little beast.

And it's interesting how even Dax Shepard says that he watched Wednesday

and was so amazed at her performance and he was like,

oh my God, this is so amazing for her.

I'm watching a woman like a star being born.

She can go on to do whatever she wants.

But he'd forgotten and he talks about it as he talks to her.

So for her, this is the most terrifying anxiety inducing thing that's ever happened.

So my worst of the week is a reminder to self that it's always important

before you are pine about somebody's situation to try and get your facts straight.

And now I feel really bad about what we said about General Ortega.

I think to revisit the original context that something was said in

is the biggest thing for anybody online.

And I tell the journalists here that all the time it's part of our rules

is that you go back and look at the quotes in context.

You'll listen to them or read them in context.

And when you do, they're very often very different.

And I broke my own rule and that's my worst of the week.

My best of the week was a glorious family moment on Sunday night

when I watched the retro 90s teen rom-com Ten Things I Hate About You with Matilda.

That movie is perfect.

It hasn't dated.

It's just perfection.

Hello, Katarina.

Make anyone cry today?

Sadly, no.

But it's only 4.30.

Ask Bianca who drove her home.

Where did you come from?

Planet loser?

As opposed to planet.

Look at me.

Look at me.

So Ten Things I Hate About You is made in 2000.

Heath Ledger at the absolute beginning.

And he is beautiful and brilliant and so sexy.

And Julia Stiles is in it.

And she's so feisty and so brilliant.

And it's a remake of Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew.

So you can kind of pretend it's like school watching a movie like that.

Essentially, it's studying.

It hasn't dated.

It's funny.

It's fresh.

The politics of it are pretty good.

There's a few problematic parts.

The music is excellent.

The clothes are excellent.

Matilda loved it.

Did she?

Yeah, loved it.

That's what I'm excited for with having kids.

I mean, one is doing crafts when they're in primary school.

And the other is watching my favorite movies.

And like getting to see it for the first time through someone else's eye.

It doesn't always work.

Sometimes it really doesn't work.

And they're just like, there's nothing special about this.

And sometimes you remember them differently to how they are.

And also kids are used to, and we're used to now, much faster pace.

Faster cuts, you know, a lot more plosh.

I think that was smart, Holly, because I may be speaking out of turn,

but I think what may have got Matilda in was Heath Ledger's face.

Like I think there was, she'd have a moment where she went,

okay, mum's onto something.

Yes.

And you know what's glorious to your point, Mia, about attention spans is this

movie was made before every movie had to be three hours long.

So it's actually like a nice tight 80 minutes.

Perfect.

Brilliant.

Perfect.

That was my best.

So my best of the week was Jesse's hens.

And it was not a hens like we have been discussing.

No strippers?

There were no strippers.

There was no alcohol.

Alcohol?

There was...

Were you uninvited?

Yeah.

Sorry guys, you weren't invited.

Except for me, Jesse and Andy.

And...

Andy being...

It's very cute.

The three of you have been bridesmaids for all three of your weddings.

So we went to school together.

We were friends with Andy on the first day of year seven.

She also works at mum, Mia, in a different department.

She's very, very close.

Nothing weird about Brunette.

Nothing weird about Brunette.

She's like, little like you, but Brunette.

So Jesse had been saying that she's very socially exhausted

and she just didn't think she could do a big hens thing.

She gets sad when everybody's drinking and she can't.

So what we decided to do was have a girl's night in.

And we got a hotel room and I got it all on points,

which I love.

I just feel so efficient when I do that.

Because it's free, but it's not, but it's free.

And so we went to this hotel room.

Andy and I decorated it with photos all around the place.

We put streamers.

We had a Polaroid camera.

We had crafts.

We had snacks.

That's so good.

We had first marks.

What craft did you do?

We had little ceramic pots and we painted the pots.

And then we watched Bridesmaids and I bought pajamas.

And we all wore these ugly flannelette pajamas

with an elastic waistband.

Jesse got to have a nap.

We arrived.

She was excited.

And then she said, this is absolutely great.

I'll just be having a nap.

And I had a bath.

And I think also had a nap.

How brilliant.

Andy's got a toddler.

So I'm just loving it.

She was in heaven.

She actually had a great point.

She said, I know that this has been for a hence,

but if we could just do a hotel stay once a year from now on,

that would be lovely.

I'm going to say once a week.

Once a week would be great.

I think you deserve it.

And then we ended up having dinner and we were staying at the start,

the casino in Sydney.

And we thought we'll just put a bet on baby's due date.

You went and gambled afterwards.

So we went and gambled.

This is not an ad.

And Jesse, this is not gambling.

Very bad.

But Jesse walking through the casino,

visibly pregnant, was hilarious.

And there were these men who had clearly been drinking all day

and they look at you and they're like, they see Andy.

And they're like, yeah.

And then they see Jesse.

And they're like, oh, and it reminded me of the scene in,

I think it's knocked up and they go to the club and the bouncers

just like, oh, she pregnant.

Can't much old pregnant bitches running around.

That's crazy.

I hope she was wearing no shoes.

She was wearing flat shoes.

She just looked a very wholesome earth mother.

I'm out of place.

Walking through the casino.

That's so great.

It was hilarious.

But it was an alternative way of doing a hand.

What a good idea.

It was really cute.

And I shared some stuff about it on my Instagram

and got so many messages from women saying,

this is what I would have loved to do.

Yes.

I felt like I couldn't.

So great alternative for those who aren't into the strippers.

My worst.

Do you ever go through a period where you just,

you're just hating how you look?

Oh yeah.

I'm going through a phase.

So I filmed something for my mayor last week.

And I got in the studio, you know, those days,

you're like, I think my hair is crazy.

My skin, I've got heaps of pimples of them.

I don't know what's happening, but I'm not my best self.

Get in front of the camera.

You switch it off.

You just don't think about it.

I got the video sent to me.

I have never done this in eight years of working for my mayor

and being on camera, all of that.

And I sent a message and I said, I am so sorry.

I can't have that go.

And it's on me.

It's on me, but I've never looked like that on camera.

And I actually have to believe it was the lighting.

I've had to film a bunch of things and I do have to remind myself

the more attention I spend on my appearance,

the worse I feel generally.

And also about my appearance specifically.

So I'm just, I'm going through a bit of a phase.

I'm very much relate.

And I think it's interesting.

We should talk about this one time.

But so we film all our podcasts now.

So there are lots of podcasts and it's great because we,

you know, it means we can run them on different platforms

and all those things.

Well, it's not great, but you have to, let's be honest.

We would prefer not to film it.

But it changes the dynamic a lot because one of the things

that used to be great about podcasts is it didn't matter

at all what you looked like and no one would be distracted by that

or commenting on that or all those things.

And now you do have to think about it.

And I have a general policy, Claire.

I mean, I look at them in as much as like, is this okay?

Do we say the right thing?

Yes, that's fine.

But I can't look too much at what I look like because I get too upset.

I agree.

When we went and filmed in that studio down the road the other week,

oh my God, I couldn't even look.

And it's so silly, but I totally feel it.

I try and tell.

And some days you just like, no, I don't look like that.

If I believe I look like that, then I can't get out of that.

Yeah.

I try and tell myself everybody just thinks that about how they look.

I think it's often about how you're feeling in your head,

like how you feel about how you look.

I very deliberately just don't look.

Not because it's like, I just like, I'm just not very interested in it,

which is funny because I'm very interested in how I look and clothes

and everything like that.

But once something's done, I'm not.

It's out in the world.

Because I also know it's a slippery slope.

But yeah, hard relate, hard relate.

Hard relate to hating your face.

Oh, my worst.

I feel like every week I talk about my dogs,

but this week I'm going to talk about my dog.

2.30 a.m. on Monday night, I think it was.

Dog starts barking.

Smallest dog, newest dog, COVID dog, mistake dog.

Oh, broken dog.

Lucky she's not listening.

No, she's got no use.

No, she does.

She's just anyway.

She just can't understand English.

Barking, barking.

I'm like, okay, cause they sleep, but there's a dog door,

so they can have access to outside to go to the toilet.

Cause I got sick of cleaning up the toilet in the morning.

So she'd gone outside and I could hear her barking.

And I'm like, okay, maybe you're barking at another dog,

like 101 Dalmatians when the dogs just talk at night

and they just like pass on information around the neighborhood.

Maybe that's what she's doing.

Didn't stop, didn't stop, didn't stop.

When I opened my window, shut up.

Didn't stop, didn't stop, didn't stop.

So I go downstairs, I go and see what she's barking at.

And she's barking at a slug.

She thought it was an intruder, she was just trying to protect you.

Oh my gosh.

She said this slug is moving very quickly and it may come in.

Because then I'm like, go inside.

So I put her back to bed, went upstairs.

I didn't close the door properly.

So then I hear downstairs, she breaks out of the kitchen.

And she and Bella, her accomplice, run upstairs.

And I'm like, you're idiots, but I'm also an idiot

because I didn't put the latch on the door properly.

So I went back downstairs, put them back.

But then it was like the, what were those in Jurassic Park

when they're testing the perimeters?

Oh yeah.

You know, the velociraptors.

Then because they'd done it once and they'd gotten through,

they spent the next two hours testing the perimeters

by hurling themselves against the doors.

You can just imagine the conversation between them.

It's like, Bella, it's your turn.

No Bonnie.

Anyway, she's really just not adding a huge amount of it.

She's cute.

She's so cute.

There's nothing behind those eyes.

Tuna steals food.

The most annoying thing that beautiful Tuna does

is she is, and Elvie never did this,

she will nick any available food.

Elvie was like one of those dogs who could walk past a sandwich,

but Tuna will jump on the table to get a thing.

Some dogs of food might have added other dogs, don't care.

And it's infuriating.

Any advice?

Welcome.

Anyway, please continue.

Oh yeah.

No, ask me for advice.

I'm so good with dogs.

My best is just that it's wedding week.

I'm not working so much this week.

I'm on set a little bit and I'm doing out loud,

but I've been out of the office mostly and just trying to sort

of absorb it and take it all in and, you know,

help Jesse and Luca with whatever they need,

like errands and I mean, there's just so much to be done.

What errands have been done?

I want to know what they trusted you with.

Yeah.

I don't think they trust you with anything.

I don't want to know what they trusted you with.

Luca and I went shopping for shoes.

I had to then get Coco's shoes and then I had to return some shoes.

I had to return some dresses that she's not going to wear.

I might have had to return a whole lot of dresses that I bought

that I'm not going to wear and some jewelry that I'm not going to wear.

So a lot of returning is a common theme,

which isn't really helping anyone for the wedding except my bank account

and all the money I've spent.

You know, and it's at our house.

So there's just stuff and meetings and people that want to come over

and look around and rehearsals.

But I mean, it's beautiful.

I've just been trying to savor all of it.

Are you emotional?

What do you think?

I have not stopped crying.

I can't talk about it now.

How are you going to deal with it when it happens tomorrow?

I think I'm going to need to give you a taser.

Okay, good.

And you're just going to have to shoot me a lot.

I'll do it.

Because I also, I just want to stop crying

because I just don't want to make it about me.

And I know I've been saying this all the time, but I really don't.

But then Claire's laughing because I don't want to make it about me.

But for me, it is about me.

Like I think I'm allowed to make it about me for me.

I just don't want to impose that on anyone else.

So I'm struggling with the emotion.

Is your mum crying a lot too, Claire Stevens?

My mum's not a cryer at all.

I don't think she cried on my wedding day.

I didn't see her cry.

No, dad did, but mum didn't.

You and mum will balance each other out.

I think because she'll give you a slap to say, come on, get it together.

And Stevens and I were doing a joint speech.

This is so typical.

I'm like, and let's do a joint speech because she was a bit nervous

because the father spoke of the engagement.

The mothers are speaking at the wedding.

I'm like, we're going to do a joint speech.

Here's how it's going to go.

And she's like, oh, okay.

So I'm like, here's the structure of it.

Here's what we're going to do.

Two days ago, I go, I don't think I can do it as a joint speech anymore.

I think I just need to do a speech on my own.

You're like the worst group assignment person.

So are you doing two speeches?

Or is that just not speaking?

No, no, of course she's speaking.

I'm making her speak first.

I'm speaking too.

I haven't written that.

Oh my God.

This is going to be so good out loud.

Anyway, you'll hear all about it next week

when Jesse will at some stage return as a wife.

Oh my God.

A recommendation that's very Betty basic.

Moisturiser.

How did you not?

How have you not?

What?

I got excited about serums.

I've been crushing hard on the serums,

investing in the serums, putting the serums on my face.

And I'm like moisturizer.

I'm just going to buy an expensive version, which is a serum.

Incorrect.

They're not the same thing.

A serum is active, but a moisturizer seals the deal.

Holds everything in.

Who knew?

And so as you get older, you can get drier.

So I'm asking out loudest, tell me what your favorite moisturizer is.

I would like to know.

I love a good moisturizer.

A savi.

A savi would be great.

Because there's a spending that I haven't let myself buy for ages.

We all know how to buy expensive things,

but we would like recommendations for savi moisturizers.

We would a quick shout out to yesterday's subs episode.

On the eve of the big wedding that we've just been discussing,

we had to sit Jesse down, Mia and I,

and talk about how she was going to triage all of the big things

that were going on.

It was an intervention of sorts.

It was.

We were like, Darl, we don't want to tell you how to live your life, Darl.

Babe.

But we're going to tell you how to live your life.

We did.

So Mia, Jesse and I sat down and we tried to triage all the big things

that were happening.

That is in yesterday's sub-zip.

So follow the link in the show notes to listen.

That is all we've got time for.

I'm on Mia Out Loud this week.

We will be back in your ears next week.

And this episode was produced as always by the excellent Emma Gillespie

with Audio Production by Leah Porges,

an assistant production from Susanna Makin.

Goodbye.

Bye.

Shout out to any Mama Mia subscribers listening.

If you love the show and you want to support us,

subscribing to Mama Mia is the very best way to do it.

There's a link in the episode description.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.