SmartLess: “Matt Damon (and Tracey!) LIVE in Madison”

Hey, listener, and welcome to SmartList.

Before we get into this incredible episode,

I want just a moment of your time

to set the stage a little bit.

Sean and Jason and I went on a SmartList tour last year

where we recorded 10 episodes live

in front of thousands of our biggest fans

from Brooklyn to Los Angeles.

And guess what?

Right now, there are more live episodes

from our tour on Wondry Plus that you can listen to.

You can listen to these episodes four weeks early

and add free on Wondry Plus,

after which you can hear them for free

wherever you get your podcast.

Find Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

All right, welcome to SmartList.

Oh my God.

All the house lights, please.

Take your time with the house lights.

Oh, wait, yeah.

Oh, oh, wait.

Take your time with the house lights.

I don't, I don't, this isn't, can, well, somebody's here.

Give it to me.

How about you just, wait.

You just had a red ball.

I need to be slapped to be woken up.

I'm gonna slap you as hard as I want you.

I want, I'm gonna slap you as hard as I want you to slap me.

I'm shuffling.

He just slapped me.

I just that much.

Okay.

Harder than that, harder than that.

Wait, I think we're on right now.

Oh.

We should, yeah.

Oh, shit.

So, no, we gotta do the thing.

No flash photography.

Don't use your fucking cell phone.

Ow, ow, there we go.

That was a block.

No flash photography.

Don't use your fucking cell phone.

Don't record.

Have a good time.

Say hi to your neighbor.

And this is

smartlabs.

And this is smartlabs.

Hello, Madison!

Oh my God!

Oh my God!

Hi, Madison!

You nice people!

Very nice!

Wow! Wow!

Crazy, crazy!

Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on!

He's already in his cup.

He's just snapping, just snapping.

He's got a drink going.

He's got a drink going.

He doesn't want to snap.

Get this sweatshirt.

Sit down, sit down, sit down.

Sit, sit, sit.

Beautiful, beautiful theater.

In a beautiful town.

We, we, we finally made it to Madison, Wisconsin!

Come on, Sam!

Okay, I gotta,

I gotta say a little bit, you know, as you guys know,

you're a big part of the podcast,

and,

and

coming here today

kind of feels a little bit like a home game.

Yeah, yeah, right.

You know, like a Badger game.

Or like a Badger game.

That was cheap. That was a cheap applause line.

That was very cheap.

Sorry about that.

Some people are like, I don't give a shit about the Badger.

Or like a bowling game.

I bowl a lot. Maybe I bowl.

Anyway.

We want to say thank you to you guys

for wanting to see us. We wanted to see you.

So this is awesome that this worked out.

And,

and a shout out to the Edgewater Hotel

who housed us for four hours today.

Yeah.

It's right on, it's right on a frozen lake

and us soft little LA freaks.

We're like, well that lake's frozen.

I see people walking. Should we go walk on it?

You can walk on a frozen lake.

Yeah.

It was very cool. Right there at the Edgewater.

Well they, look as a Canadian I get it.

Okay.

Not to pull rank too much, but

Did you ever play, you ever play hockey on a frozen lake?

Sure. Really? Yeah, of course.

How many times? Again, I'm Canadian.

No, but I mean not every Canadian plays hockey

or on a frozen lake.

Yeah, no I have done it, but it's a fair question.

And we did get out there. You wanted to go.

We were up at the Edgewater Hotel.

I don't know.

And they were super nice.

We were there for like two hours, but we

Jason saw the ice and he saw people walking

across and he's like, we got to get out there.

Yeah. I didn't say it like that.

And Sean was like, what are they doing?

And neither of them had ever been out on a frozen lake before

which you guys know is just what you do.

Yeah. Hey, let's sit down.

Yeah, let's sit down. Let's sit down.

We're going to get in here.

Wait, let's switch seats.

Oh, let's switch.

They're different.

I've been sitting in that seat for a couple of days.

Yeah, it's nice to be over here.

I want to see these people too.

All right.

So I, you know, I like to start out

like with a personal story that happens, you know,

on the...

Sean's got material.

No, I don't have material.

Dig in, everyone. Someone's prepared.

Grab a cocktail.

No, I, you know, on the tour,

by the way, we are living together on the tour.

Like, yeah.

Turns out he's messy.

He's not.

You don't sleep well.

I don't sleep well.

You like the snacks.

I mean, I like...

Wait a minute. What?

You like the snacks.

I do like the snacks.

I do get a lot of shit from you about, you know,

eating sprouts and no glutes.

I mean, now that you see...

I eat terribly.

I can do it anyway.

We, what we realized is,

as you know, Sean, and as you guys know,

Jason gives me a lot of shit about eating

and what I eat and blah, blah, blah.

Have you noticed all the time that he gives me shit

and then he ends up eating all the time?

Yeah, all the time.

Yeah, all the time.

But it was classic today, right before we ate.

We switched a little bit

and Jason ordered a burger

and Will ordered a salad, which is so rare.

Hang on.

Okay, so, but wait.

It's still a salad.

Low-hanging fruit is still fruit.

And then Jason did offer me

yet a burger and he offered me his...

You did, at one point, legitimately say,

I'll give you the rest of my waffle fries

for your salad.

It is true.

I did offer you my gluten bun, too.

Oh, God.

But on the tour, these guys...

One day I came back into the room

and these guys had had massages

so I was like, oh, I was bummed.

And so Jason was like, oh, well,

you can still get one willy-nilly trying to get me

to figure it out how to get one.

I'm like, you know what, forget it.

So yesterday in Chicago, I got a massage.

I got a facial because I couldn't get him to sign.

God, we sound so gross.

That's the worst.

By the way, for the record,

for the record, I did not get a massage.

Yes, you did.

No, I didn't.

Well, you look awfully complete afterwards.

But so I got this little thing today.

And this Russian woman is like

massaging my shoulders after she put,

I don't know, some fucking stuff on my face.

And she's massaging. She goes, out of nowhere,

I can't do a Russian accent, but she's like,

oh, you strong muscles, you work out.

And I was like, oh, God, I don't know what this is.

It's already making me feel uncomfortable.

But I love funny massage stories.

I have two really quick.

One, the first time I was...

Wait, were you keying yourself up for your own story?

Absolutely.

Actually...

This gets better.

It gets better. The night gets better.

One is, one time this friend of mine offered,

you know, he's like, this guy who does sports

massages, I'm like, oh, I'll try that.

So I'm lying on the thing, I never had a

sports massage before, and I have the little thing

over me, you know, I'm totally naked underneath.

And this guy starts like pulling one leg over

this way and then one leg over this way

and my penis and balls are over here

and my penis and ball is over here.

And none of it was like relaxing or comfortable

or anything. And I thought, you know,

the sheet was supposed to be the invisible

barrier between us, but it was everywhere.

But anyway, my philosophy...

Wow.

My philosophy for

for massages is this.

If they say, hey, do you want a male or a female?

I always ask for a female and this is

why. If it being gay,

newsflash.

So if it's a straight guy

getting a massage and something

happens, I don't want him to freak out.

If it's a gay guy and something happens,

I don't want him to be like, hey, and if it's

so if it's a woman, I'm good to go.

Oh.

Go ahead, go ahead, cancel yourself.

We're

going to do it in Madison, Wisconsin.

What a night.

What a night.

Have you ever

had an uncomfortable

situation on the massage table?

Um,

no, I don't think so.

Well, you know what prompted me to tell this story?

You would remember.

A nice clean no would

have done it.

No, I had

masseuse one time get up on the

table and she got up on

me a little bit.

Yeah.

Were you in the country?

In

this country?

Well, do you

consider Latvia part of this country?

No.

So her technique was to get up

on you? She got up, yes.

She got up

on my back, which I think is

irregular now that I think about it.

Did she have a saddle with her?

No.

Uh,

when she took her clothes off,

that should have been... That was a signal.

No.

That's the only time you had an uncomfortable massage?

I don't think so.

Okay.

There was

there was

a friend.

No, no.

Uh,

things change a little bit,

but they don't go...

Things didn't get to where

they get to...

Your Honor, permission to treat the witnesses

hostile.

Wait a minute. What about that story

you told me today,

but that actually did happen to a friend of yours?

Oh, my friend, yeah.

My friend

of mine's wife

goes to this pretty

reputable massage place in

Los Angeles, and

we can't tell this story here.

No names.

No, but they don't want to hear about this kind of stuff.

That's like...

That's...

But we'll tell

shit stories on the podcast.

I'll tell a cleaner

massage story that I was actually in.

I actually said...

Oh, great.

You're going to get both now.

No, so

she was in this nice massage place,

and she's enjoying a nice massage,

and she's face down, and

she's got herself a male

Russian massage therapist.

Why are they always Russian?

Okay.

And she receives a thumb.

Wow.

Wow.

Everything stops.

He stops because he's wondering

if

he's going to receive

a solid green instead of the flashing green.

Right.

She stops because she's wondering

if it's a mistake.

Then she turns her...

What's going on?

He stops the thumb.

Sure.

And then finishes the massage.

She's so freaked out.

She goes to pay at the end.

She tips him.

Because she's not sure what she should be.

He already tipped her.

Hell.

She goes...

She goes home.

She tells her husband.

She's freaked out.

Rightfully so.

He picks up the phone.

He calls the massage place.

He explains the situation.

He says, you know, my wife is in there.

She's got a massage from a massage therapist there.

And she was thumb.

And...

And the person says, you know,

I'm sorry, so that's impossible.

Who is the massage therapist?

And he says, honey, who is the massage therapist?

It was Yuri.

And the guy says, it was Yuri.

And the person at the desk says,

it was Yuri.

Wow.

And they both paused.

And the person at the massage was like,

oh, got it.

We will speak to Yuri.

So that was that story.

So...

And let me get digits after the show

of where that place is.

So, you know, we're here because

one of the main reasons we're here is because

my sister lives in Wisconsin.

Yeah, yeah.

And as you know, Tracy.

And, you know,

just one quick Tracy story.

She came to pick me up at college

after my fourth year.

And she came to pick me up in some pickup

truck or something.

And we got high before we got into the truck.

And we got stoned.

What? Drugs?

That's a good one.

And so...

So we got stoned.

We smoked pot before we got in.

And we came with just, like, willy-nilly,

like, just the clothes and, like, my dress,

my dress or whatever.

And so we're driving.

And we're driving up 55

from ISU, Illinois State University.

And I'm driving up.

And we're both, like, listening to Madonna.

And we're both, like, in our own world.

Like, we're actually Madonna.

I'm like, just like a prayer.

The voice that takes there.

And, like, we're in the video or something.

In our own world, we're not really talking.

We're just going to see some pants.

And then a shirt.

And then she's, like, driving.

She's, like, holy shit.

Some more pants and some socks.

And, like, a suit.

And then, like, part... And then we're, like,

maybe we should pull over. We pulled over.

And I'm talking, like, two miles of clothes

behind us.

Right? And we just...

What do we do? Should we go back and get in?

No, we didn't give it. We just drove the fuck home.

Because you did not zip your bags

adequately.

You know, I was 18.

I'm sorry, I was 20.

I don't know what.

Are you high now?

Yeah, I love it.

But, you know, why finish any of these stories?

When I can have Tracy tell them herself, she read.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, my God!

Tracy!

Thank you.

All right.

Madison's own Tracy!

Okay.

She doesn't look like she needs anything

explained to her.

All right, so I have these questions

that I literally wrote about an hour ago.

Don't let her peek.

What was one of the best memories you have of me?

Don't they look alike?

I think...

Or of our family or anything.

Well, growing up, we had just us five kids.

Yeah, chaos.

Just us five kids.

That's why I need to explain things to me.

Yeah. Oh, do you see...

Do you help the explanations on the podcast?

You think they help you? Yes.

We say Tracy, can you explain?

Yes.

Do you guys have any questions for my sister?

How about this?

How about you used to be a police officer?

I'm obsessed with crazy police stories.

Do you have a crazy one?

You used to be a police officer?

Hang on a second.

Yeah, so I was a cop for...

We lived in Glen Ellyn and all that.

The worst thing that would happen is...

You always say that. You weren't there.

No, okay.

I was a cop for 15 years

in Glen Ellyn

where we grew up.

Did you ever have a case...

Did you ever work on a case of a

weed-smoking couple who lost a bunch of clothes

on the highway?

Did you guys ever solve that case?

No.

What was the most dangerous thing

you were ever involved with as a cop?

I mean, there was, you know,

burglaries and domestic...

Did you see any dead bodies?

Yeah, a ton. You did?

No way. I think you told me one.

Then that became normal to you?

Yeah, that doesn't matter.

Okay, great.

Really? What was the oldest

dead body? How long had it been dead?

Oh.

There was an old elderly lady

that, you know, the male kept piling up

and then, you know, you go

and a neighbor called and...

So it was like a week?

A maggots.

What about... Did you ever see anybody

get dead?

Is that the way you say it?

A murderer?

Even die, he made longer.

LAUGHTER

Okay, okay.

No.

Did you ever see anybody die

in front of you?

No.

And what is your last name?

I'm kidding.

Were you a motorcycle cop

or did you drive a car?

I drove a car

and then I became a detective.

Dude, she could have been a motorcycle cop.

We didn't have motorcycle cops.

You don't have motorcycle cops?

Because of weather, right?

What?

We got motorcycle cops.

L.A.'s lousy with motorcycle cops.

Yeah, that's...

Now you can see in person what we're dealing with.

It's...

It's absurd.

But no, I think that's a pretty good question.

If you are in a place that has a lot of winter,

um...

You can't have...

You can't have a motorcycle cop

because you got snow and ice and stuff like that.

Good for you, dude.

You see the way I have a process

where I have a motorcycle cop out.

What is it like?

Do people bug you because you're referenced on the podcast?

Do people stop you?

They don't know who you are? What is it like?

I get kind of some

emails now and then.

How do they figure out it's you?

I don't know.

Because I have a different last name

and I live in Monaco.

Right.

I've got to change that now.

I don't know how they figure it out,

but some people do. It's fine.

How fucking weird is it?

It is weird.

And all these people know who you are

because we talk about you all the time.

Right? It's weird.

Here's the thing.

I am a single mom

and I'm at home

and I literally...

It makes my Monday.

I think it makes everybody's Monday morning

to look forward to that.

I'm not kidding.

That's a wonderful place to end.

That's a wonderful place to end.

I have one question.

The waste is not going anywhere.

We've got to go.

I just want to ask you this.

Your brother, Sean.

That's me.

Just zip it for one second.

He's our good friend.

We love him very, very much.

He's an incredibly talented guy.

How...

Very nice.

He moved to California

and then he had all this incredible success.

Did you say, yes, I knew it

and did you feel an incredible sense of pride

for all the amazing things

that your brother has done?

Or...

Or...

Was it wait

till they figure out the mistake they've made?

No, I think he's a great brother.

I mean, he's a very...

We're very close.

We've always been the closest, I think.

We were the two youngest and so we kind of stuck together.

Poor guy.

I made him do baton lessons and cheerleading.

I mean, it was bad.

She did. Do you want to do a cheer together right now?

No, I do not.

Wait a second.

Wait a second.

I didn't hear...

You guys said you used to be on cheer squad together.

I would be like a cheerleader and I make him

do the practice with me and baton tour with you.

Right now.

I'll do it.

Really? Okay, I'm going to do it.

Here we go.

Get up there.

Okay, ready?

This is what she taught me.

5, 6, 7, 8.

We've got power.

Wild cat power.

P-O-W-E-R

We've got...

We've got power.

Stand up.

I love you.

That's crazy.

Thank you for coming out.

Thank you, Tracy.

Keep it going, keep it going.

Isn't that great?

That was awesome.

We'll be right back.

We'll be right back.

We'll be right back.

This episode of Smart List is brought to you

in part by Skinny Pop Popcorn.

And listen, I've said it before

and I'm going to say it again.

Thank you, Richard Ehrlich for the quote.

This body is no fluke

and it's brought to you in part

by Skinny Pop Popcorn.

Okay?

A deliciously simple combination

of popcorn, oil and salt.

Every bite of the perfectly popped

original popcorn leaves you

and me wanting more.

Skinny Pop is light, it's tasty

and it's perfect for any occasion,

whether you're on the go, staving off boredom

or unwinding after a long day.

And in addition to the original popcorn gang,

Skinny Pop offers a variety

of delicious flavors ranging from white cheddar

to sweet and salty kettle.

I'll say it again, this body is no fluke

but I do recognize you can't see me

so I'm going to help you with a little description here.

The silhouette that I get going

when all I eat is Skinny Pop and water.

It's something to really behold.

It's tough in the winds.

Fortunately, we don't have a lot of strong wind

here in Los Angeles so I'm good there.

But boy, I venture out of the country

or up onto a mountain top.

I got to do more Skinny Pop.

Lots of Skinny Pop just to wake me down a bit.

Shop Skinny Pop now on Amazon.

SmartList is supported by Audible.

Audible lets you enjoy all your audio,

entertainment, and one app.

You'll always find the best of what you love

or something new to discover.

Audible offers an incredible selection

of audiobooks across every genre.

You'll find guided wellness programs,

theatrical performances, comedy,

and exclusive Audible originals

from top celebrities, renowned experts,

and exciting new voices in audio.

As an Audible member,

you can choose one title a month

to keep from the entire catalog,

including the latest bestsellers and new releases.

You can choose a number or a blog post

and video fill in on it.

It's worth the effort and week where

you'll contraception people and take on

other people's lead.

Whether

from your personal perspective,

ten unique platforms.

So let's go to our audience.

and I really, really enjoy actually listening to books.

It's fantastic.

I'm reading again with my ears.

New members can try Audible Free for 30 days.

Visit audible.com slash smartless

or text smartless to 500-500.

That's audible.com slash smartless

or text smartless to 500-500

to try Audible Free for 30 days.

Audible.com slash smartless.

All right, back to the show.

Let's move on, shall we?

Where are we going?

We're going to go on an all-trip, Jason.

Okay.

Here we go.

You guys are in for a special treat.

This is exciting.

You know how you want...

I had to write it down.

Me and Jason write our intros down.

You know how you wonder sometimes

how certain people in our business

become successful

and then they sustain that success, right?

Sure, you need talent and brains

and ability to capture an audience,

but I found the secret ingredient

to becoming a superstar is being a nice person.

All right, this person is one of those people.

He's one of the nicest kind of people

I've ever had the pleasure of being friends with.

He is the first person to introduce me

to a segue, the scooter,

not how to connect thoughts.

He's played an attorney,

a pickpocket,

a talking shrimp,

and a spy for the FBI.

He also happened to appear with me

on one of the funniest episodes of Will and Grace.

Unlike how he's treated by Jimmy Kimmel,

we have plenty of time for him tonight.

It's Matt Damon!

Matt Damon!

Thanks, guys.

I mean,

if I was ever going to do this show,

it would have to be in Wisconsin, right?

Come on.

This is a perfect example of nicest guy in the world.

That's why I said,

I know you're probably wondering who canceled

and thank you for replacing at the last minute.

You're very welcome.

So, we used to...

Good Lord.

You know what's so funny?

We used to, do you remember this?

I bring this up every time I see you.

We used to play softball about 75 years ago

with the Olsen twins.

Yes.

Yeah, when they were little kids.

That's right.

What was the league?

What?

No, it wasn't a league.

It was like, meet at this fucking...

At a park in Santa Monica.

Just meet at this park.

The Olsen twins will be there.

You can play softball with them?

Yeah.

Is that like a flyer on a telephone pole?

No, our friend, Steve Schenbaum,

organized these softball things.

And I remember playing with you

and we were hanging out and you go,

because it was right at the peak of Will and Grace,

and you go, how can you go out anywhere?

I'm like, how can you go out anywhere?

And you're like, yeah, but you're Sean Hayes.

I'm like, you're fucking Matt Damon.

It was crazy.

You can cruise around with a fair amount of anonymity, yes?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you live in New York, yeah?

Yeah, most of the time.

And now, are you like,

you can just go to the store and do whatever, right?

Totally, yeah.

We were talking about this.

You go to the store a lot?

I do, actually.

What's the last story?

Well, in New York, yeah.

And when I lived in LA,

I probably never went to the store,

but in New York kind of...

Nobody gives a shit, right?

Nobody cares at all.

Nobody cares.

But there are some people,

we're talking about this the other day,

there are some people,

would you not agree,

that some people sort of carry themselves like a celebrity

and then other people do not,

I don't know what it is,

whether what they wear

or how they act or what...

I don't know.

But you are...

You've always been to me

a really famous actor,

as opposed to some, you know,

big flashy celebrity.

But you have all the fame of a celebrity,

but people think of you as a...

Right, you're not a tiktoker.

Right.

Well, I'm trying.

Are you trying?

Are you trying?

Are you working on it?

I mean, are you on tiktok?

Are you on tiktok?

I'm not.

No.

Are you out of your mind?

No.

Shani is.

Are you?

Yeah, I do things like that stupid thing.

Right, do you like to share it?

No.

Then I have to get on tiktok

and follow you,

but my kids won't let me get on tiktok.

Why?

Because they're like,

Dad, you're lame.

You can't get on tiktok, really.

Yeah.

We were going through that

about the dad-lame thing

and Jason was worried

I accused him of looking like cool dad tonight.

Yeah, I got a terrible outfit on today.

No, no, you look great.

No, yeah, you know,

what did you call me?

You rock and roll dad.

Rock and roll.

With this ridiculous hair,

I need to get kind of like Chrissy Hine.

I said Chrissy.

I have that going too,

because I have to go,

I have this thing I have to do in L.A. tomorrow

for the next movie.

It's like one of the hair and makeup tests.

You have an excuse.

They tell you not to cut your hair

or shave for a month.

Right.

You don't have to wear this ridiculous denim outfit.

I don't.

I don't.

I'm at the end of the tour.

I'm down to loose ends, you know?

Short ends.

I want to go,

because I like that topic

about you being an actor,

not just like a personality,

because it's true.

And you went to Harvard,

but did you only went for one year?

Did you go for four years?

Or what?

I went for five years.

No.

But I got,

I got, yeah,

I got credit for three of them.

No, what would happen was,

I'd get to like,

wherever I was in a semester,

if I got a job,

I'd take the acting job and then, you know,

And then go away and then come back.

I'd take a leave of absence

and go away and come back.

And there was one semester,

I mean, I was three weeks away,

and they, I said,

can I just finish?

I'm just about done.

I just have to take my finals.

And they said,

you can do it if you take your finals

at the exact moment they're offered in Cambridge.

And I'm like,

well, I can't shut a movie down

for three hours,

four different times.

Like, I'm number nine on the call sheet.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Like then, yeah, I wasn't,

I was just like,

Right, right.

Was it, was it, was it hard?

Like, it,

The school?

Humorum.

Humorum.

No, but I just,

from what I've,

from what I've been told,

Was Harvard hard?

No.

But this is why I asked,

because I have heard that people say

you'd be surprised,

college in general,

is not as difficult as a

high level,

high school program.

Like if you take AAP classes,

or what a,

I don't want to have a high school diploma.

Just bear with me.

That they're,

like the general ed in college

is not as difficult as it can be

in high school,

because it's voluntary school,

and they're not really grinding you.

You're trying.

You're disciplining yourself.

Voluntary school.

No, no, yeah.

It's so fun watching his brain work

and how, what he,

how he thinks about stuff.

It's amazing.

Was it difficult?

I mean, it just, it depends.

For me, it was always,

if I liked the class,

it wasn't difficult,

because it's like kind of like,

you know, if you,

if you have the job you love,

you never really are working.

People go,

well, you worked such long hours,

and you go,

no, I mean, I'm,

But aren't those first two years,

you have to take general ed?

You have to take the,

the, the, the,

there's a,

it's the second two years

where you get to say,

well, now I want to be,

you know, this person.

They had,

they had core requirements,

right?

So you had to,

no matter what you were studying,

you wanted to make sure

you took a lot of different classes

across the other.

And this will all be on the syllabus.

So,

you guys,

you'll be able to see for yourself.

I mean, obviously it was hard.

I didn't finish, so.

Did not finish.

Did not graduate?

No, no, no, I'm,

I, if I, if I were to ever,

I'm still on a leave of absence, guys.

Okay.

All right.

Don't,

this ain't over yet.

Okay, don't count me out.

I would be a senior if I went back.

You're so close.

You want to go back?

No.

I'll go with you.

All right, let's see.

Maybe we can go back and like,

do this and kind of like,

teach or something,

and then they just give us diplomas.

Yeah, we get a,

a degree in hosting.

I gotta,

you know,

have you ever done a commencement speech?

I did the commencement speech at MIT.

Yeah, they don't ask me for that stuff.

Six years ago.

I, you could,

and they,

and they're supposed to give you,

you know,

Ben, I know he did one at Brown

and Ben got a,

a diploma from Brown.

Tracy, that's Ben Affleck.

Yeah.

And,

but,

the,

the great thing about that was that

John Krasinski went to Brown

and is very proud of that

and studied and worked really hard

for four years

and got a diploma.

And Ben called him and said,

I was in Rhode Island for 45 minutes

and I got,

I love that.

And when I gave the commencement thing

at MIT,

they don't give you even a,

really like an honorary diploma.

They're like, it's MIT.

Like, you know,

you don't get one.

So if you,

I'm like, that's cool.

No school,

no school in this city

gives me a diploma,

so it's fine.

Hang on.

Bear with me for one more second.

If you give a commencement speech,

you get a diploma from that.

Yes.

An honorary doctorate.

Doctorate.

I got one of those too.

Do you have to have a high school

diploma before you?

No.

Ask, by the way,

by the way,

asking for a friend.

Asking for a friend.

I'm just asking for a friend.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, no, no,

they,

they,

if they've,

if you've got something

considered an expert

and you,

and you get an honorary,

I'm screwed.

For God's sake.

All right.

So listen,

what you mentioned, Ben,

I don't,

I don't think I know this answer.

When did you meet Ben Affleck?

When and how?

I was,

because we always

associate you too.

I was 10

and he was eight.

And,

really?

And we lived two blocks

from each other.

And,

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We grew up together.

And that's why it's so weird

because we didn't have anybody

in our families in show business.

We didn't have any,

Boston isn't a show business town,

you know.

It's not.

No.

Not,

not really,

you know.

And,

and we,

and we just had this weird obsession

and we were,

we were probably grew up

200 yards away from each other

and met each other.

And,

and just,

like out on the street,

like playing stickball.

Yeah,

we used to play little league together.

We used to play,

you know,

he was a little younger than me,

when we really started

hanging.

And then we,

you know,

we got agents.

He had an agent.

He had been on an after-school special.

He had been on a,

he was like the big star of our school.

Yeah, yeah.

And was he like,

was he like a big shot

when he had the after-school special?

When he arrived at the high school,

it was like,

and I had to set him straight

because I,

I was the lord

of that theater department.

And,

and I,

and he likes to tell this story.

Apparently I went up to him,

like first day,

and like pulled him up,

and was like,

hey,

you know,

it's different here in the theater.

Yeah.

That looks great.

You're straight dudes right away.

Yeah, you're not going to,

you're not going to get by in your looks.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

Yeah, we were both like five too.

Oh, that's, yeah.

Yeah.

What,

what were some of the theater things,

like you still love theater,

do you want to do theater,

do you do theater?

I actually,

yeah, I did,

I did a ton of theater

in high school and college,

and we had an extraordinary,

amazing, amazing, amazing teacher,

who,

and it was,

I mean, a lot of,

just from that school,

me and Ben and Casey,

his brother,

and I mean,

there's just a ton of people

who came out of that,

that program.

Sean Hader,

who's just got nominated

for an Oscar for Coda,

she's the director of Coda,

she went through that program.

Like,

there are a lot of,

really,

because we just had this

unbelievable teacher,

and,

but I was going to say,

because when I went to see you,

don't leave it,

don't keep it there.

Keep talking.

When,

when I went to see you

on Broadway,

and I had done,

I had done a play in London

20 years ago,

and with KCF,

like actually,

and I went to,

you know,

10 years later or whatever,

which was probably 10 years ago,

when was it?

Yeah, 2010.

2010, today, yeah.

It was his promises, promises.

It was his promises.

And so,

Oh, for a pause, Pat.

It was,

and obviously,

he was amazing.

It was,

no, it was,

it was awesome,

and we,

we see it,

and we were totally into it.

It was deep into the run, though.

And we went backstage,

and I have never seen

a more,

it made me never want to do theater again.

Yeah, exactly.

I looked at you,

and you were just like,

I'm,

you were,

I was like,

hey,

what's going on,

hi.

Scotty just had his hand around,

he was just holding you up.

It was a week.

Who would do this?

Yeah.

You were so tired.

It was awful.

And you still had like

a month and a half to go.

Yeah, it was at the finish line.

Yeah.

But I,

you were so nice to come A

and B to see the show,

and the B to,

you wore those,

I sent you a long time ago,

as a birthday gift,

shirts,

t-shirts with my picture on it.

Oh, that's right.

And you wore it to the show.

That's right.

Oh my God.

That's right.

I forgot that.

I totally forgot about that.

Yeah.

What,

why are you keeping it?

Because I did,

because you know those shirts

that you wash so many times,

they're like,

they're better than,

so that was my Sean Hayes shirt.

Yeah.

I was like,

didn't it say something?

What did you write?

There was some great,

it was really funny.

No.

I can't believe I can't remember this.

No Jason.

Or it's 600 times.

No, no,

you were so sweet.

And I too get better

as more,

the more you wash me.

Would you,

what about,

have you ever done musicals?

No, yes.

Yes.

Really?

Of course.

In high school?

Pippin?

I was pippin.

No way.

Fuck yeah.

What?

Yeah.

I totally.

Everything has its time.

Show me a reason

and I'll soon show you a rhyme.

Oh my God.

I literally,

I sing that to my daughter to drive.

Really?

I do,

with the,

with the choreography we did,

it was like,

it was literally like,

a five six seven eight.

It was just that,

it was like,

rivers belong where they can ramble.

Eagles belong where they can ramble.

That was literally the choreography.

So that's my kryptonite.

I can't sing in the shower even.

I mean,

I would kill it.

I can't sing either.

That sounded pretty good.

That sounded really good.

Jason just admitted today

that he hasn't danced since when.

What happened?

I haven't,

yeah,

I had a fourth grade dance

and my,

I made my sister teach me

a dance step all night

to like midnight.

And it was,

it was just,

it was just one.

And I just,

so I got to the dance

with my girlfriend,

Amy Keating.

And,

and I did that

for about four or five songs.

And then she stopped

in the middle of the sixth song

and said,

is that the only step you know?

And she left,

she left the dance floor.

And I've never danced since.

Now,

the,

the,

the follow up to that is,

I,

I ran into a friend of mine

who,

10 years later,

15 years later,

we were in the class together

with Amy.

And I,

we were talking about her

and he said,

he said,

you know,

I heard she got a brain tumor

and I said,

oh my God,

is she okay?

He says,

I don't know,

but I hear she may have

not made it.

And I was like,

oh God,

no,

no,

cut to,

I get an email

from Amy Keating

about five years later

saying,

hey,

just wanted to reach out.

I hear you think I'm dead.

And she said,

she said,

so I've made a documentary

that says Jason Bateman

thinks I'm dead.

No way.

And,

and I'd like to interview you

for the end of the documentary.

Would you come,

would you come meet me

at the auditorium

where I left the stage

at our elementary school.

So I can,

so I can interview you.

And I was like,

yeah,

and I sat down

for an interview

and I think it's all,

I think it's on YouTube,

this documentary.

What?

Oh my God.

Jason Bateman thinks I'm dead

by Amy Keating.

How have we never heard about this?

Yeah, I've never heard about that.

I've not told that story?

No.

The fuck are you talking about?

That's crazy.

I've got, I've got many stories.

All right.

Ready?

Here we go.

Oh God.

All right.

I want to,

I want to start at the beginning.

No.

I want to,

I know you probably had,

first of all,

I have to state the obvious,

which is you're one of the

biggest fucking stars

on the planet.

Right?

It's true.

I don't know,

that's not important to you.

And I know,

I know the art and the craft of it

is more important than any of that,

but it's just so cool.

It's just so cool, right?

And we're all such fans.

And I love you

and I've been such a fan as well.

And I mean,

how hard did we laugh?

He did this episode of Will and Grace

where he played,

he played this guy.

That was the funniest.

I mean,

by the way,

I have a quick story.

You don't know this story.

He played this guy

who was actually

to be gay so he could sing

in the gay man's chorus.

Because they were going to Europe

and he wanted the free trip to Europe.

Right.

It was such a...

It was so stupid.

In fact,

he was so funny though.

Did you sing on the show?

Yeah, he did.

In the chorus,

we all sang,

but the whole idea was that

Sean,

he figures it out.

Yeah, I'm like,

you're straight,

I know you're straight.

And so he tries to in me.

Right.

Instead,

yeah,

but the show was like

10 years deep.

Like,

I had never done a sitcom

and I couldn't believe,

like...

So fun.

Because they were so locked in

and the writers were so locked in.

Amazing writers, yeah.

Like, that table,

like you'd sit around,

the first draft comes in,

we read it,

it's hysterical.

And then,

like,

there's like 10 of you

and you guys just start going,

you make it better and better and better

and like,

it was just so fun.

And I couldn't believe

how,

by that point,

because you'd put all the work in

for 10 years,

how little you guys worked.

I was like,

holy shit.

It's amazing.

It was criminal.

Well, James Burroughs,

who's one of the greatest directors

of all time,

he directed every episode of Cheers,

every episode of Will and Grace.

Yeah.

He directed Friends,

Taxi,

Big Bang Theory,

Two and a Half Men,

all these things.

But anyway,

he's what got me like this, right?

So now,

and I got spoiled at such a young age,

so now when I'm on a set,

I'm like,

what's taking so long,

you know?

But you're so sweet

because I remember,

you don't know this, I think,

or maybe you do.

But during that episode,

you were so kind

and worried like,

you didn't,

nobody was attending

to your hair or something

and you had a baseball hat

on all day,

so you took it off

and I think you were afraid

to like ask for help.

So in the episode,

you can see the line

of where his hat is.

By the way,

there it is today.

I have the same line.

If I'm left to my own devices,

I'm just completely useless.

You're like,

well, I'm fine.

To build on that real quick,

the kindness that you have

is so authentic and sincere

and organic

and we are in such

a permissive business

for bad behavior.

And then if you're super famous,

they let you get away

with even worse stuff.

What is it that keeps you

from behaving badly

beyond just your own natural instinct?

Was your mom or your dad

real good at like saying,

things are starting to really

take off for your son,

keep your shit together?

Or did you have like a bend

that would like beat the crap out of you

like you did with him?

And Matt, let me just say

before you answer that,

Jason wants to know,

why aren't you giving into your desire

to be shitty to people?

Because he finds it really hard

to bury it.

And how do you bury it?

Is it similar to how he buries it?

Go ahead.

Yeah, man, I don't know.

I never had an impulse to do that.

I don't know why.

I think I just was lucky.

I think I had great parents,

a great big brother

and a great foundation.

And I honestly,

you guys all know.

But you must have lost it at some point.

I think the experience of getting famous

is weird.

Yeah.

Right?

And that,

I always reflected back on that

after I kind of got through that first two years

like, whoa, that was crazy.

You're working with people

and you're seeing people

that are more famous than you coming up.

The way they're acting,

which for the most part is not great,

and how did you think like,

well, I guess I gotta be a dickhead.

I've been really, really lucky.

I have not witnessed a lot of bad behavior.

Really?

I started out,

I was working with,

I had like Denzel

and Robin Williams

and Tom Hanks

and these people who were like,

so,

and nobody was bigger than them, right?

Yeah.

And they were so classy

and professional and kind and good

and like,

Important first examples.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it just really set the tone.

I always say,

if you can't find the asshole on the set,

it's probably you.

You're the asshole.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So,

Wait, you mentioned your big brother.

How many siblings do you have?

Just one.

Just one.

How much older is he?

Three years older.

Are you guys still really tight?

Oh, yeah.

What sort of, without getting specific,

what line of work is he in?

He's an artist.

No way.

Yeah.

Well, like painter.

Painter and a sculptor.

Wow.

Can I buy some of his stuff?

You should certainly could, yes.

Wow, really?

I would love to see that.

We'll talk afterwards.

Okay, great.

How funny,

and I don't know this either,

so were your parents in the arts or no?

No, no.

My mom's a professor

of early childhood education.

Wow.

Yeah.

And my dad was,

when I was a kid,

he was a stock broker.

He taught school.

He did all kinds of jobs

until he finally built a company

and became really successful

and retired early.

But it was interesting

because my mom did what she loved

and didn't get paid anything.

And my dad only did what he did

just to make sure

that we were provided for

and he never enjoyed his work.

And so it was a great lesson,

I think, for my brother and me

to go like, you know,

because both of them were saying

from two different sides of the coin,

like, follow what you love to do.

Yeah, that's awesome.

And so it's probably great

to have a brother who's an artist,

even though he's not an actor

or a director or a writer or whatever,

but because he's an artist,

you guys can talk a similar language

and relate as creative people.

Yeah, I love, I mean,

I really trust his judgment

and his opinions.

And I mean, you guys know,

like when you're working,

I mean, it's like you have

a little core group of people

that you show your stuff to

and you're like, am I crazy

or is this working or am I crazy?

Is Lucy straight with you?

Will she tell you when you suck?

Yes, Lucy.

And she's been actually,

for me, really the best bellwether

of like,

Tracy, Lucy is.

Tell Tracy who Lucy is.

Tracy, Lucy's my wife.

By the way, speaking of Tracy,

like, I didn't know,

I was standing next to Tracy

and the wings trying to hide.

I didn't know it was Tracy.

And then I'm sitting there,

I'm like, what'd they say, you know?

And I'm just, I just,

because there's, you know,

10 people back there

and I figured they're all working

on the show.

Right.

And suddenly you announced

and she goes blasting out.

I'm like, oh shit, that was Tracy.

Well,

I was totally star struck,

but I better.

Yeah.

I know.

That's a funny.

Okay, so wait, I want to talk

about, you know,

I know you're so sick of talking

about it.

You have typed questions.

You know what?

Sean prepares.

Sean prepares.

That's harder than you worked

on that episode of Willingham.

Without a doubt.

It's so true.

And I made so much money.

Sean, Sean is,

Sean is so organized.

One of the things we were finding

on this tour.

Oh my God.

Sean is, it's insane.

So the other night we got back,

we were in New York

and we got back after the show

and we all had dinner

like in our room

and it's us

and a bunch of people

and our friends.

And so everybody's got,

they're like eight or 10 of us.

The food arrives,

we start eating.

Sean's finished in,

I don't know,

legitimately 90 seconds,

maybe two minutes.

And everybody else

is just starting their food

and he stands up

and he starts,

he clears his plate

and then he starts clearing

all the loose ends

and then he starts clearing plate

and you're like,

no, no, no, I'm not done yet.

Right?

It's just cleaning.

Now this is a hotel room.

There are people who are going to

come and clean it anyway,

but no, he's cleaning it.

That's,

my wife does this exact same thing.

It drives me crazy.

It's bonkers.

I'm like,

why are you bussing the table?

I'm eating my food.

He likes order.

He doesn't like chaos.

He likes things done tight

in a proper way.

We're being driven here

in a tinny tour bus.

Yeah.

And he's got ways open

to make sure the driver

is on the right route.

Not a bit.

And so we keep going,

every 30 seconds we go,

how much longer, Sean?

He's like,

three minutes.

I'm starting a new app.

It's not called Waze.

It's called Gaze.

It's much faster.

It's much faster.

With a more handsome font.

We'll be right back.

Hey, smart list listener.

We get support from Viator.

Experiences are what people love

the most about travel.

They create long lasting memories

that make memories and connections

that will last well beyond the trip.

Viator is the place

to go to book memorable travel experiences.

They offer everything from simple tours

to extreme adventures

and all the niche, interesting stuff in between.

I don't know about you,

but you look for opportunities

to bond with your kids

because when you're at home,

they're busy doing their stuff

with their school and their kids

and they don't want to talk to mom and dad.

You get them on some cool trip.

You get all these great experiences,

lifelong memories,

nice bonding.

It's a key for us.

Now, when you book a travel experience

with Viator,

there's always flexibility

and support with free cancellation,

payment options and 24 seven service.

Plus Viator has over 300,000

bookable experiences to choose from

in over 190 countries.

So there's something for everyone.

It makes sense.

Download the Viator app now

and use code Viator 10

for 10% off your first booking.

One app over 300,000 experiences

you will remember.

Do more with Viator.

Today, we're working

and communicating more quickly than ever

and sometimes we can feel stuck.

Give yourself a helping hand with Grammarly Go,

Grammarly's new communication assistant

powered by Generative AI.

Grammarly Go understands your unique context,

preferred voice and goals

to quickly generate high quality writing,

with just a few clicks

you can ideate, compose, rewrite

and reply thoughtfully.

Struggling with new ideas,

input a prompt and Grammarly Go

will generate innovative suggestions

to help you move your ideas forward.

So for me, a few weeks ago

I got emergency laser surgery

in one of my eyes

and I couldn't read or write.

So all I could do was dictate or speak

and do it.

So what Grammarly Go did for me

was help me kind of outline

a speech that I had to give

and then Scotty filled in the rest

and it came out terrific

because Scotty is also based on AI.

He's generated.

He's not even real.

Scott-E is his name.

You'll be amazed at what you can do

with Grammarly Go.

Go to Grammarly.com.

Go to download and learn more

about Grammarly Go.

That's G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y.

Dot com slash go.

This newest season covers the story of Mike Williams.

It was Mike's sixth wedding anniversary

when he set off on a hunting trip

into the gator-infested swamps of North Florida.

He figured he'd be back in time

to take his wife Denise out to celebrate,

but he never came back.

Friends and loved ones feared he met his fate

through bad luck and a group of hungry alligators

leaving his young family behind.

Except that's not what happened at all.

And after 17 years, a kidnapping

and the uncovering of a secret love triangle,

the truth would finally be revealed.

Enjoy Over My Dead Body,

Gone Hunting on the Wondery app,

or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Over My Dead Body early

and add free on Wondery Plus.

Get started with your free trial

at Wondery.com slash plus.

And now back to the show.

All right, so now I know you're sick of talking

about goodwill hunting and just bear with me here

because I, you know, because I have every single one

of your movies, like, it's crazy.

But talk about, you know, what I love about this story

about how it happened is because so many people ask,

how do I start? Where do I, like, what did you do?

How did you get your start?

And you just fucking did it.

Like, you just, you're like, well, I want to work.

I want to work, so maybe I should just write my own thing, right?

Yeah, but then won an Oscar for that script.

Yeah, I mean, it worked out.

Yeah, yeah.

The only reason I'd love for you to just tell,

yeah, exactly, for you to tell it is

because there are so many people who want to,

you know, so many young people starting out

that love this story, that need to hear this.

I mean, I think we were a desperate,

we were unemployed, struggling actors,

and it just became clear that we were going to have to wait

forever until we got a shot.

And I remember it was that movie Primal Fear.

I don't know if you...

Audition for it.

Audition for it.

Ed Norton and Richard Gere.

Edward, you know, brilliant actor, you know,

my age, Edward got the part and was great.

I think he got nominated for an Oscar for the movie.

So that script came along and Ben and I looked at it

and we were like, that's the best role.

I'm like, why isn't a movie star taking this role?

This is an unbelievable role.

Like, why isn't, like at the time it was like Ethan Hawke

or Robert Schoenleiter, all the guys from Dead Poets.

I'm like, why aren't those guys jumping all over this?

This thing is amazing.

And I bought, I paid for a dialect coach

because remember he switches these two for...

I would feel for him to take it to get a dialect coach.

But this was like with money I didn't have

because I was like, this is it, you know what I mean?

To prepare for the audition.

To prepare for the audition.

And...

Because he switches from Southern to normal

or normal to Southern?

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

He's got, it's like a Jekyll and Hyde thing.

Did he say Southern to normal?

I don't know.

Oh, God.

Stanford, maybe, Stanford.

That plays, okay, that plays well in Wisconsin, okay?

Yeah.

But...

Wisconsin's not Southern?

Yeah, what's that?

Wisconsin's...

I said it plays well because you just called them normal.

No, no, they're...

They're, they're...

They're all really nervous for you right now.

Yeah.

I think I got canceled in minute five.

I know.

I just poured cement over it and, yeah.

Everybody's nervous at every moment.

Yeah.

That's the best.

You guys, us...

I'm terrified for you, buddy.

I gotta be honest.

Bye.

I was...

But he does...

He does, does he go into Southern?

The country just got cut in half.

Yeah.

You can't, you can only go to half the country now.

So easy.

Where do you guys shoot, Ozark?

Southern...

Atlanta.

So he has a Southern accent.

No.

So you had a switch between Ozark and normal.

Yeah.

So...

Oh.

So, yeah.

Oh, God bless him.

But the idea was that there are two distinctive voices that come from this guy.

Yes.

Both perfectly good voices.

Yes.

Yes.

Two excellent distinctive voices because he's playing and having a mental health problem.

He's saying he's schizophrenic and then there's a whole...

But it's an actor's dream because he's...

It's a really showcasing part of this, whoever got it.

And Edward won the part.

But Ben and I realized then we were like, if it...

What are the odds of another movie coming down where, you know...

And then it's like it gets kicked down and there's 10,000 of us like rabid hyenas going for it.

Right.

What are the chances, A, another one's going to come in the next five years?

And B, that even if it does, we'll be the ones to get it.

We'll get called back.

We'll get close.

You remember...

Oh, you don't remember Auditions.

Yes, I do.

You were like a star for the whole...

You were a fucking star when you were like eight.

Yeah, exactly.

And I was watching you like, that guy, I could do that.

I could do that.

But, yeah.

So that kind of started us thinking about writing, about going like,

well, let's write our own part.

If you want something done, you got to do it yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because you were dying to be an actor, not a writer.

Right.

Right.

We were writing just literally to give ourselves jobs.

You win an Oscar for writing.

That's amazing.

I know.

It's weird.

I've never gotten any award of any kind for acting.

Now, what about...

What about...

What about...

Wait, is that true?

Actually, it's true.

Is that true?

I got...

The Empire magazine gave me an award in like 2007.

And I went and picked up the award.

You did?

Yeah.

I was like, guys.

In high school, we had the Massachusetts High School Drama Festival and they would give

awards.

I was in every one of those plays, killing it.

Never got an award.

I was like, oh, man.

Is it true that you have not received an award for acting?

Yeah.

Are you kidding me?

You've been nominated a shit ton of times, I'll bet.

Yeah.

Good lord.

Yeah.

Let me know.

I got a golden globe.

You got a globe?

Well, that's something.

Yeah, that's something.

Come on.

Well, for the Martian, right?

For the Martian.

And they gave it to me.

All for applause.

But by the way, thank you.

They gave it to me in the category of musical or comedy.

No way.

No way.

100%.

By the way, it's one of my favorite movies of all time.

It really is great.

I love that.

It's awesome.

It's so good.

Wait, are you still Good Will Hunting?

I want to talk to Matt about a couple movies.

Can I do this one thing and then I'll hand it off to you?

Okay.

Tell me your name again.

So listen, George Clooney was on a podcast.

Okay.

And he just was describing this amazing moment when you took

Oceans 12 to the Cannes Film Festival.

Do you know the story?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And so you guys rode on this yacht for the press and Brad Pitt says

he wants to climb to the top and take his shirt off and jump off the top.

And George was like, oh my God, Brad Pitt takes his shirt off

and it's like something Michelangelo carved.

His body was just perfect.

And then he says he looks over at Matt and Matt goes,

and you take off your shirt.

And it's something like the Pillsbury Doughboy car.

Right.

Wow.

You're probably bulking up for a part.

Clearly.

Clearly I was preparing for something.

That was my question.

We've all seen Ripley.

We've all seen you.

You know how to get it down.

I can get it down if I have to.

But I mean, that shot's fired by Clooney.

Listen, Clooney was so scared of getting his picture taken next

to Brad with his shirt off that he didn't even jump off the boat.

And he told me later, he's like, I knew you were going to get hit

because the paparazzi took pictures.

And it's like, you know, it's Brad in the whale.

He's jumping off.

And we were in the middle of the Mediterranean.

Out of this boat, I couldn't see it.

Those lenses are so ridiculous.

I didn't even know how they knew we were on that boat.

But George somehow knew.

He's got like a spider sense or something.

He was just like, nah, I wasn't going to risk it.

But so you do.

And you do know how to get it down and get in shape

because the fucking born movies.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

I think the first time I met you was years ago,

was at Krasinski's house.

And I came in the door and I don't know if you remember this.

I came in the door and you picked me up.

You grabbed me around the waist and picked me up.

You'd had a few.

But then.

At John's?

At John's.

JK, you guys.

That's John Krasinski.

Bravo.

And I think I geeked out on you at that time.

The born movies to me, I have seen all,

well, the four that you've done.

I can't even count how many times.

Born Ultimatum is the second one.

The third one.

The third one.

Born Supremacy is the second one.

Born Supremacy to me is one of the most perfect films.

It's got everything.

It's got drama.

It's got action.

You're so fucking good.

People say, well, you're doing an action movie.

Doing what you do, it's intensity from the moment you start.

It's just super intense.

And you're in it.

And you're just kicking dudes' asses

and strangling them and shit.

All the while acting like, I'm not sure how I know how to do this.

You're a weapon and you don't even know it.

Right.

What?

Yeah.

Exactly.

What was that experience like?

Because that to me is it.

And would you ever go through that training process again?

Yeah.

Though on the last one, I remember I was 45 on the last one.

It hurt.

Yeah.

And people would go like, my age would come up and go,

hey man, how did you get?

And I go, not worth it.

What about what Liam Neeson is doing?

Every single film he's doing is more intense than the next.

I know.

And he's not 45?

No, no.

He's great.

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, some people.

Good for him.

Even when you were younger, even when you were in your 30s,

and you're doing supremacy, and you're doing all this crazy shit,

and supremacy was directed by Paul Greengrass.

Paul Greengrass is an incredible director.

Amazing.

That's why they all work.

I mean, it's always the director.

What was that?

Yeah.

But you're giving him a lot of credit, but you deserve so much.

What was that process like for you?

Were you beat up every day?

No.

I mean, they make it.

Look, they're the Tom Cruises of the world who do their stunts,

like literally hang off a plane, and they do that.

Yeah.

I remember, I had dinner with him once,

and it was after he did the one where he ran around the building.

Oh, yeah, Napa Dabi?

Yeah, Napa Dabi.

And Dubai.

Dubai.

I mean, he's 1,500 feet up on a cable running around the building.

Yeah, that's crazy.

And I go, can you tell me how that happened?

And he goes, yeah.

I mean, he's a really intense guy.

And he's like, yeah, I'll tell you how it happened.

I go, all right, all right.

And I'm in.

I'm like, OK.

And he goes, so I go to the sea.

He goes, I've been thinking about this shop for 15 years.

And I go, wow, really?

And he goes, yeah.

And he goes, I knew it.

And he goes, so I go to the safety guy.

I go, here's what I'm going to do.

And I lay it all out.

The safety guy goes, we can't do that.

It's too dangerous.

You can't do that.

So I get a new safety guy.

That's the beginning of his story.

And I just go, stop.

That's where we're different.

When the safety guy says, no, I'm like, oh, safety guy says,

it's not a good idea.

Do you have any long lasting injuries from all of that?

No, no, no.

Are you serious?

No, no.

I mean, little nicks and cuts and stuff from those fight scenes.

But nothing.

They're pulling their punches.

In fact, on the first movie, The Born Identity,

I fight this guy in an apartment.

Nicky Node was his name.

And Nicky was in Paris.

In Paris.

Yeah, I know, I know.

Why are you telling me stuff I know, Matt?

Sorry, sorry.

Nicky was a professional, had been a professional kick boxer

and he was an actor and a stuntman.

And so I went to him before we shot.

And I said, look, I'm really sorry.

I'm, you know, I've been boxing and doing all the stuff to get ready.

I'm going to accidentally hit you.

I mean, I just know I am.

And I'm really sorry in advance.

And for every time I hit you, I'll give you a bottle of champagne.

And Nicky goes, this is good.

Yes.

So by the end of the day, I owed the dude a case of champagne.

But he had been used to like fighting professionally.

So he was like, it did not hurt at all.

He was like, he was so thirsty.

He was leaning into it.

He was like, great.

He was like, anytime you want to do a fight scene, I'm in, you know.

I want to know, you know, another favorite movie that I love,

that you were in is The Departed.

And which I love.

Yes.

It's crazy how many movies you've been in at your age and none of them suck.

Yeah, I know some of them suck.

No, no, no, no.

It's got to be bad to suck.

Some of them were not as great as the others because the others are like 11s.

But the amount of work you've done and the quality that you've maintained is just stunning.

You really deserve to really appreciate it.

Thank you.

It's true.

Thank you.

I want to ask about The Departed because I did a movie with Jack Nicholson as well called The Bucket List.

Sure.

And the first, not as much applause.

But the first day of The Bucket List, we were in this like Bentley or something,

and they took the windshield out to put the camera in.

And I didn't know, it was the first day, and Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson are sitting in the back.

And I'm sitting in the passenger seat in the front.

And in your mind, you know, you're like, should I break the ice with a joke?

Should I not?

I don't know these guys yet.

I'm not, you know, it's only the first day of shooting.

So idiot goes, all right, I'm going to go for it.

Maybe someday when you make it big, you could sit in the front.

Silence.

Silence.

Nothing.

Crickets.

Nothing.

Crickets.

They're literally looking at their lines and they just go, no.

That's it.

The last one was, now we're like a month or two in the thing.

And I'm like, well, now they're my pals, right?

And so I'm sitting in, you know, little video village.

Tracy, video village is a thing where you can watch playback and it's like off of the set.

How fun is it that he can look at Tracy while he does it?

So I'm sitting there and I thought, oh gosh, now would be the perfect time to play a game, right?

Because we're waiting while they're lighting the scene.

It's going to take like a half hour or whatever.

So I say to Morgan and Jack and Rob Reiner who's directing it and some crew guys who are sitting around.

I go, hey guys, I got a great idea.

Let's play a game.

Let's go around the room and name the movie you're embarrassed to say you've never seen.

Embarrassed to say you've never seen.

I go, I'll go first.

I've never seen The Godfather.

That was the end of the game.

That was the end of the game.

Because next half hour everybody's like, hey, this guy's never, you've never seen the fucker.

What?

And I'm like, is somebody else going to go?

I know where you're going with this.

Departed is certainly one of those movies that you don't really, you're not allowed to say you're a fan of movies if you have not seen that movie.

Yeah, I agree.

That's such a great movie.

Such a good movie.

God.

What was that experience like?

How did you come about that part?

I was, we were making Oceans 12.

Yeah, this is true.

And Brad Pitt, you know, is a pretty prolific producer.

And I don't know if you guys know, but he produced that movie.

And he, yeah, he just came up.

It's the weirdest thing because every actor's dream is to work with Marty Scorsese, right?

And we were, we were sitting there.

See, that's the guy directed the movie.

Among others, and we were literally, this is the worst, this is like, how many names am I going to drop that I have to pick at?

You're allowed.

You're allowed to.

We were at George Clooney's house in Italy.

We figured you knew him.

And Lucy and I, it was before we were married.

So this is 2004, I think.

And because we got married in 2005.

And we were sitting there at the pool.

Sure.

And Brad Pitt walks over.

Sounds like a very nice weekend, Matt.

Look, we were working, okay?

Sure, sure.

It was hard.

It was really hard.

And Brad kind of put his towel down and sat down on the chair and next to us and goes,

Hey, Mattie, you want to do a movie with Martin Scorsese?

No way.

I swear to God, that's what he said.

And I, I was like, yeah.

And he was like, no, I'm actually serious.

Wow.

I'm like, what are you actually talking about?

Drop the script on your towel right then.

Yeah.

And he goes.

And then the script went, whoo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Page one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you, did you at any point say, well, hang on a second, Brad, why are you playing this part?

He felt like he had aged out of it.

Really?

Because the guy goes through the police academy and he just, he's just unbelievably generous

and he goes, no, I think it'd be better if you did it.

Because Leo's going to play this one role.

How old is Brad Pitt?

Brad is, I don't know.

I think, I'm 51 and I think Brad's 58.

I think he's like 56 or something.

57, 58.

Yeah, something like that.

He looks incredible, first of all.

Yeah.

Guys, he looks awful.

Yeah.

He looks terrible.

I love, I love me some Brad Pitt.

I saw, I know, I really do.

So do I.

He's such a nice guy.

And he's so handsome.

Yeah.

And I know.

And it's hard to not look at him.

It's so hard not to look at him.

So we were like, right before the pandemic, we were at, we were in Los Angeles.

We were at a Bon Iver concert.

And, and so, and I know those, I like, I like Wisconsin.

So I know those guys, Justin Vernon, Sean Kerry and all those guys.

And so, so anyway, we were hanging out before the show and just chit chatting.

And, and, and then Brad came in and to sit down and I, and I, he sits down and I go,

we're talking for a second.

I said, you know, Brad, I was thinking, you know what?

Movie has aged really well.

He said, what?

I said, Benjamin Button.

That's a great laugh.

It's a great joke.

Right.

It's a great joke.

It's a great laugh.

It's a great joke.

And he, he bossed for a second and then he started laughing.

He was like, and I was like, I'm not ripping on the movie.

I mean, it's a perfectly constructed joke.

And he was great about it.

Yeah.

Movie is so hard.

Yeah.

He's somebody who I was, because we started working together 20 years ago on Oceans and

it was just mystifying like how, because he's been the most famous guy, you know, and

even Jerry Weintraub, our producer said, you know, I was with Elvis.

Every generation has one guy, Brad's the guy, you know, and, and it's true.

And it's true just the, the effect that he has on people.

But I've never seen an effect like that, but with so like, he doesn't do anything to

court it.

He doesn't do anything to, he's the most regular guys from Missouri.

He just couldn't be.

He couldn't be more normal, Jason.

Yeah.

He's really normal.

He fights, he pushes down the instinct to be shitted people.

He actually said, he, he got, he elicited from me at that same thing after the show.

He said, Hey man, I just want to say, we've done this little show on Netflix called Flaked

and he goes, Hey man, it's a little, but he goes, he goes, man, I just want to say, I

just, I loved your show so much, man.

I watched the whole thing.

I was so shocked and I was like, really?

He goes, Oh, I just loved it.

And he gave me a big hug and I said, thanks man.

And then we go to the door to go out.

I said, I'll see you guys later.

I walk outside and I slid down the wall.

I went, Oh my God.

Yeah, yeah.

Who do you, who do you think in front of my girlfriend?

And she's like, this is great.

This is.

Who do you think he thought you were?

Hey, you're mistaken for.

I want to introduce everybody to the real Jason.

He finally showed up.

Well, speaking of normal, Matthew Damon, you're one of the most normal people I've ever known.

Thank you for being here that.

Oh my God.

That was fast.

I know.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Let him hear it.

Thanks guys.

Wow.

Wow.

You guys.

Isn't that amazing?

You guys came for us.

And that's what's important.

You guys came for us and Matt was so nice to be here.

Thank you guys so much for coming.

We go ahead.

No, you go ahead.

I was going to say, I, we said everything.

I've said everything there and I would repeat it a thousand times.

I love that man.

Yeah.

Like all talking about kindness and everything.

And it is kind of a, by the way, I could have asked him a thousand questions about the Martian because I love the Martian.

Yeah.

But, but I just love him and he's so talented.

He's so talented and so normal and so kind and generous and always just warm to people and yeah.

I do think it's interesting though, you know, when he did the talents of Mr. Ripley, which is about a gay, what's that?

Who me?

Here he comes.

No, no, this is it.

And we're not doing a bye?

No, no, not yet.

He did.

I know.

Usually this is where Sean starts wrapping up and his brain breaks, trying to work his way to a bye.

And you can feel it.

No, because I'm doing it right now.

I just feel talented Mr. Ripley.

I was going to say, and the talented Mr. Ripley plays a gay con man and that's about the time he started hanging out with me.

And I was sitting here.

I was trying to think of a bye.

I was thinking, boy, he's so, he's so nice.

He like, you could put your hand in the cage that he's in.

He'd never take a bite out of it.

And I'm like, no, no, no.

No, it's too.

It's terrible.

It's terrible.

It's too sweaty.

It's too sweaty.

You're thinking about getting rid of the bye.

What do you guys think?

The bye.

It's so cringy.

She's like, yeah, both of them.

All three of them.

It's so cringy.

They're saying about it.

So listen, if you want to pick on anybody after the show, these three said they want us to get rid of it.

But I'm pitching.

But what about if we just change it to, I'm pitching these guys and we change it to a C, right?

And then we can find a C.

But we can't think of any more buys.

Wait, wait, wait.

He keeps pitching the C.

Well, like it's Italian.

I know.

But let's vote on it right now.

So bye.

And?

Or C.

Or C.

I didn't pitch it very well.

So you know which one won.

Bye.

Thank you guys.

Thank you guys so much.

Smart.

Lass.

Smart.

Lass.

SmartLass is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Amjarf.

Smart.

Lass.

In the first part of the 20th century, the Hilton family had a lock on the hotel industry by offering upscale service at a modest price.

The company was expanding fast and buying up iconic properties across the country, like the plaza and the Waldorf Astoria.

But their unchallenged rise wouldn't last.

An ambitious Mormon named J.W. Marriott decides to pivot from restaurants to hospitality.

And he's after Hilton's business, developing modern hotels across the world.

But both the Hilton and Marriott families will have to contend with their share of drama in finding a successor, while also fighting to stay solvent in a high-stakes business.

Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondery Show Business Wars.

We go deep into some of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time.

In our latest season, Hilton and Marriott are in a race to expand globally and secure the loyalty of fickle customers.

Make sure to follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.