My First Million: Lessons From Sam's New Business Venture, High Stakes Gambling, and More

All right.

Quick break to tell you about another podcast that we're interested in right now.

HubSpot just launched a Shark Tank rewatch podcast called Another Bite.

Every week, the hosts relive the latest and greatest pitches from Shark Tank, from Squatty

Potty to the Mench on a Bench to Ring Doorbell.

And they break down why these pitches were winners or losers.

And each company's go-to-market strategy, branding, pricing, valuation, everything.

Basically all the things you want to know about how to survive the tank and scale your

company on your own.

If you want to give it a listen, you can find Another Bite on whatever podcast app you listen

to, like Apple or Spotify or whatever you're using right now.

All right.

Back to the show.

You just got to like get that initial traction and then more opportunities spots itself.

But you have to be this one thing for this one person and ignore everyone else.

I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like no days off on a road.

Let's travel never looking back.

Okay.

I just sent you something hilarious.

I've been following this Twitter called MugShotties and it's like a play on mugshots and we talked

about this.

Oh, didn't we talk about MugShotties?

It's so funny and the tagline is the tagline is Hope Bay Gets Bale and it's MugShotties

and it's all like good looking girls who have a mugshot.

It's hilarious.

It's so funny.

Yeah, we've talked about that because there was a guy who his mugshot went viral because

he's got like he's just like really stunningly good looking and he became like a model afterwards

or whatever.

Yeah.

I remember that guy.

People still talk about him.

Can I tell you crazy stories?

So have you ever seen, I think this is probably outside of your kind of orbit of what you

pay attention to.

But have you seen these gambling live streams where Drake will go on Twitch and he'll gamble

like $20 million live on stream?

No, really?

Yeah.

Like a real $20 million.

A real $20 million.

He lost like I think $17 million on roulette one night last like two weeks ago or something

like that.

It seemed really that rich that I mean like if you're $200 million rich, that's 10% of

your net worth.

In a night.

No, okay.

That's a substantial amount.

Good question.

I had the same question which led me to some pretty interesting findings.

Okay.

So, I saw Drake doing this and I've seen other popular streamers like XQC and these guys,

they do these gambling streams from time to time.

People love to see it because they're playing kind of like high stakes online, you know,

gambling and they're reacting to the highs and lows or whatever.

Ben, have you seen this?

I think it's probably also outside of your, you know, Mormon orbit.

You don't watch these kinds of sins.

Yeah.

So, exactly.

So, this is all on Twitch.

It was happening on Twitch.

Maybe some people do it on YouTube as well.

But it got me curious.

I was like, there's no way this guy's gambling $25 million, $20 million of his own money

on these things.

And I was like, these streams get so popular.

I'm like, this is actually great marketing for the website that it's on.

So, he's gambling on something called stake.com, S-T-A-K-E.

And so, I was like, I bet this is house money that they're giving him in order to just promote

the site.

And sure enough, that's what it is.

So, get this.

What is he losing it again?

When you play Blackjack, you lose against the dealer, right?

The house.

Yeah.

So, they're just, like, if I gave you $20 million to come play my rigged game, I gave

you $20 million, you lose it right back to me.

I get, you know, I'm back whole.

They don't even lose the big because they're the house.

So, they would take that, you know, 4% edge or whatever that they would have.

They keep that as well.

And if you win, maybe they have some deal where, like, if you win, you keep the winnings.

I would assume they have some deal like that with them.

But it's electronic, right?

Like, it's like the cards are digital, it's not like a camera.

So then they could just be like, oh, shoot, Drake has 20, we have to make ourselves have

21.

Yeah.

Well, that's, yeah, that's a little bit, that's illegal for sure, but they wouldn't need to

do that.

I guess that's kind of my point is that they'll already have a house edge and over time, like,

they will win.

And so, and even if they don't, like, this is as a marketing campaign, like, this is,

like, kind of genius.

And so what they're doing is stake.com is this website, and it is the largest cryptocurrency

based online gambling site in the world.

And nobody knew who was behind it until recently, some guy in Australia bought, like, a 36 million

dollar home.

And they were like, who, who is this?

You're in your 20s.

How did you buy a 36 million dollar home all cash?

Like, what's he was, he was in his 20s.

So these guys, they're in their mid 20s.

I think one guy's 25 or 26, the other guy's 28.

And, and so there's this guy, Ed, you can just search Ed Craven, Ed Craven Steak, and

you'll see the secret origins, secret Australian origins of the world's biggest crypto casino.

And so get this.

So basically, they have, there's these guys in, in Australia, and they've got this office

and it's just, and they, the office is under this name called Easy Go Gaming.

It's like, we build online games.

And the office is super nice and people would see it on social media.

They would see like, wow, these guys got like a chef and they got all these perks and they

got like, they're always going on these trips and like, what's going on with easy go gaming?

You guys must be an awesome gaming company.

So it must just be like a couple of people and they're just hanging out at someone's

house.

And so, well, no, no, so this is a legit company.

But basically easy go gaming is the licensed gaming provider.

Like they provide the games to the casino company, Steak, which is based in someplace

called Curacao or something like that, which is like some Dutch Caribbean island where

the actual casino is based and these guys own both.

So they were kind of known as only the owners of Easy Go, but they actually own Steak.

And so it all got kind of like revealed when the guy bought this home for whatever.

You can see even there's like a Daily Mail article.

He buys them.

I'm reading it right now.

38.

38 and a half million dollar mansion he buys and they're like, who is this kid?

He's 26 years old or whatever.

And that's kind of how people figured out like, oh, he owns Steak.com.

Now I believe these are kind of like my predictions and my guesses.

So Steak.com I think is pretty clearly clearing like billions of dollars in revenue.

I think both of these guys are now self made billionaires, possibly even 10 billion plus

is what they've made off of Steak.com because this thing is a absolute cash cow.

And you can kind of back into this by looking at like they do these like Sunday raffle whatever

lottery type thing and it's like you pay, it's like, oh, wow, you know, 250,000 people

bought this like $10 ticket.

It's like, oh, wow, they just, you know, that was just like a two and a half million dollar

Sunday for them.

And then they pay out this much and they keep 26 million or 50 million.

Like that's just a week for them.

And so, and so you can kind of see, you can kind of back into, I did some calculations

on it, but I'm pretty sure that these guys are both self made billionaires, if not 10

billion at this point in equity value of Steak.com.

And it's just kind of crazy to me like that this exists, that these guys are so young,

able to do this.

And people who are just willing to like live on the edge, it's like, yeah, I'm going to

go set up a company at the Dutch Caribbean Island of Curacao, which gives out like online

gambling licenses, like, you know, my neighborhood gives out candy on Halloween.

And these guys have amassed this absolute fortune, kind of anonymously building this.

Isn't this just like, isn't this kind of crazy to you?

Yeah.

This is, I'm researching and I know how I recognize this.

They're a sponsor of the UFC.

Yes.

And so they're big UFC sponsors.

And they also sponsor Wattford, the like, the English soccer team.

So they like pay 10 million a year as their like lead, lead sponsor for that too.

So I'm doing research just as you're talking.

On LinkedIn, there's, I don't, well here, one guy says he's the CEO, but that's, I

don't know if that's legit.

This is, this is crazy.

This is one of those amazing companies, just like VPN and a few other things that's completely

under the radar and it's totally crushing.

And I've said this to you before, I actually think that people's personal homes, the price

of it, you know, like a rich person can live in a low priced home.

But if you purchase a high priced home, the likelihood that you're rich is like it's indicative

of what you have because it's hard to, it's not impossible, but it's hard to give a bank

to give you a loan if you don't have a significant amount of income, not just assets, but income.

So if he bought a 30, and if he bought a $37 million home in cash, is that really what

it said?

So then.

Yeah, I don't know if it was all cash, but it was like three times more, the house sold

in 2018 for three times less and then the guy renovated it and he, this guy bought it

for, for whatever, almost 40 million to buy a $40 million home.

I would think you'd want to be worth like at least $250 million and at least some type

of liquid situation as well, not just privately held company.

So here's my notes on this thing.

So I'm just going to read you my raw notes from last night.

It says, a small company in Australia in Melbourne called EasyGo looks like your typical successful

startup.

You got ping-tongue tables.

You got a chef.

You got perks.

You're going on boat trips with the team, but they're hiding a massive secret.

They're also the founders of Steak, which I believe might be the world's largest casino

ever.

It's crypto only, which is a massive growth lever.

Does that mean that it's legal?

You mean illegal?

I don't know the legality of it.

That's like probably a pretty complicated thing.

Like full tilt went away in America.

I used to play tilt.

You can't go.

If you're on Steak.com in the U.S., you can't go to it.

It's like, no, this is not available to U.S. citizens, but internationally it is and they

base it out of a QR code, which gives out the online game.

So I think they are fully licensed, but they use crypto, which I think lets them do things

like know, as they say, KYC, AML, like know your customer.

So basically, I think you could just transfer in Bitcoin or whatever and you could just gamble

it on the site.

You just put an email in and you start gambling.

And so they got like all these games or whatever.

I think that they're paying Drake like $20 million a month to be the like sponsor of

this thing, which is kind of insane.

No way.

You really think that much?

Because he's gambling at those stakes and I'm pretty sure that's all house money.

I don't think Drake is promoting this company by putting in $20 million of his own money

and losing it every month.

Well, they're not giving him $20 million.

They're saying you can win up to $20 million, or you can use...

No, they're giving him house money.

They're giving him a chip or a credit line that basically says, here's $20 million to

go play on the site.

You probably can't just cash that out.

You have to gamble it here, but I'm pretty sure that's how it's working.

That would be crazy.

I mean, okay, so some of the private equity guys, like Steve Schwartzman and a few other

folks who founded Carlyle and BlackRock and Blackstone and all that, they're some years

will they'll get paid like $800 million or $500 million because of performance.

But $20 million a month is $240 million a year.

That would...

They're probably...

I can't imagine there's more than a hundred people in the whole world that earn that much

income.

I mean, of course, there's a lot of people who earn like paper gains, but who earn that

much income in a given year.

That would be absolutely astounding.

So get this.

So the guy buys this house for $40 million.

They also own multiple penthouses like the top floor of the Eureka Tower in Melbourne,

which was the largest skyscraper.

But here's what's even more interesting.

When they were 18, when one of them was 18, the other guy's 20, they started something

called primedice.com.

It's still up if you go to primedice.com.

It's basically a crypto gambling site where you just bet, is it going to be...

What's going to happen?

It's like heads or tails.

It's like a roll of the dice and you could just wager on it and here you go.

And you could just see people just betting constantly on what the dice is going to roll

out to and what they're going to win for it.

So they created this when they were back in, I don't know, 2013.

It says, I think on the site, it says largest crypto gambling site since 2013.

So they're pretty early on that.

This site is wild.

Do you see all the live users betting money?

Yeah, it's crazy.

And it's just look at this one guy, Shane Recover is just betting over and over again.

This company, this is such an amazing find.

This company alone, this primedice thing is awesome.

So then let me tell you some of the other things that come into it.

So basically, I think one of the YouTubers that they pay or maybe a Twitch streamer,

this guy, Aiden Ross, I think is getting paid a few million bucks per month to do it.

That I think there's pretty good authority on.

Three million dollars a month.

Yeah.

No, I think two, two million a month.

Okay.

Now let me go into more.

Okay, so all of that was like, you know, this is all like not confirmed, but like these

are now like some rumors.

So or I guess this part's not a rumor.

Like if you go to their website, you could see that there's a company called Medium Rare

and V, which is Incorporated and Curacao.

That's the company that holds the gaming license.

If you Google map the address, it's just like a shitty warehouse building that you'll find

of like where this company is based.

So I don't know what's going on there.

It's like, you know, when you incorporate in Delaware and they give you like a PO box

as your address.

So okay.

And then a couple of other, you know, random rumors are like, they added Dogecoin to their

site as like a way to deposit back in the day.

And like when all the Elon stuff was happening, I think they dumped like hundreds of millions

of dollars worth of Doge.

They like sold it all when the Elon pump was happening to Dogecoin.

And yeah, it's crazy.

So anyway, this isn't just like a crazy thing.

So what like, okay, let's say you even had the idea for this.

I Googled, I Googled, I'm Googling these guys as you're talking.

There's very, very, very little information on these folks.

Right.

There's, there's almost nothing.

Do you think, could I change my browser to Australia and maybe get better results because

I'm Googling their names now and there is like, there's one picture on them on the whole,

on everything.

Yeah.

I like found their Instagrams.

Both their Instagrams are private, but like, yeah, like I know somebody who, who falls

off or whatever, so I like stalked their Instagram too, just to see like what's going

on.

Are they jacked?

Are they jacked bros now?

Or are they still nerds?

They're, they're, I wouldn't say they're jacked, but they're fit and they're bros for sure.

Like, they're breaking the stereotype.

You know, like here's the, like, I'm just going to describe to you, I'll send this photo.

We can put this in the YouTube channel.

Are there Ferrari pictures?

Okay.

So one, okay.

Picture number one, you would have guessed Ferrari, but here's a close second picture

of a Range Rover with a giant bow and somebody hugging them because they just gave them a

Range Rover.

Uh, okay.

That's a classic.

You got to love that one.

Another classic, you know, the like influencer balloons you get when you cross like a million

followers or whatever, the yellow giant inflatable balloon of a number.

They have that.

Uh, and it's like some guy, uh, you know, hugging him doing that.

Another one like court side at the Lakers game, court side at the French open.

Like I could see in the dolls calf, like, you know, right behind this guy's head in

this picture.

So they're definitely living it up, uh, and as they should, this one.

So this is exactly what I want my online casino dealer guys life to be.

This is who I want it to be and this is how I want them to live and I'm glad that they

are doing exactly what they're doing.

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And one of them's only 26 is what you're saying.

Yeah.

It might be a lot out of date, but yeah, they definitely hit this scale when they were in

their 20s.

Like the youngest, the richest young person in the world, like Richard Dan, what's his

name?

The Sam Bankman Freed guy.

Yeah.

And younger.

Or on par with it and younger.

That is outstanding.

That is crazy.

What a good find.

Speaking of young billionaires, I think the world's youngest self-billionaire now is this

guy, Alexander Wang.

Do you know this guy?

I don't really know him, but I think I was in a group chat with him.

Is that from that company?

A startup?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what they do is pretty cool.

They basically saw the kind of like machine learning trend, you know, like this is going

to keep growing.

And they were like, well, you know, one thing that's really hard is like when you're doing

machine learning, you need like the data to be labeled, right?

So if you're trying to teach a computer how to recognize a, you know, a kitten or something

like that, it's like you first have to train it in some ways or be able to like teach it

when it's wrong and correct it.

And so that labeling process is quite like time consuming.

And so what they did was they created like a, I think a giant workforce force of overseas

people that will label your images for you.

And so like if you're a self-driving car company, if you're a Waymo or Tesla or whatever, you

get like tons and tons of footage and then now those need to be labeled as like, yep,

that was a dog crossing the street.

Yep.

That's a stop sign, even though it's partially obstructed.

And so how does that happen?

That's like a human intervention.

Humans go and do that.

And so scale started off as like a, it was labeling as a service.

I'm sure they do a lot more stuff now, but it's pretty crazy.

That's like a $10 billion company now.

And this guy, I think he started it when he was 19 or something.

What?

Is he cool?

Yeah.

He was cool.

I didn't know him for long because as soon as they're, it's pretty funny.

It's like, I'm in this group chat that's like four founders.

Yeah.

Four, four, a bunch of founders.

It's like, oh, this is kind of like the underground founders hang out.

Like we chill here and everybody's trying to do big things.

But then when one guy actually started doing big things, he's like, I'm busy, I need to

leave this now.

And so it's like the ultimate signal.

It's like, oh, and it really takes off.

You don't stay in these chats.

You just sort of like go do your billionaire thing now.

I mean, you go do your like, I'm actually on a rocket ship.

I don't have time to socialize anymore, which, you know, respect to him.

Dude, I was going to show you something that I thought was like a major good find.

And now it seems like achievable given that you just set the baseline to 26 year olds

who are now worth $10 billion.

This one's a little, this one's much smaller, but still oddly interesting.

What are the MFM or the million dollar brainstorm document that we have and scroll down.

And so you can kind of see that like, this is truthful.

The guy sent me a picture of his quick books.

So you see that?

Yeah.

All right.

So this guy named Matt Paulson.

So you remember when my Twitter got hacked?

Yes.

So there was basically people hacked my Twitter and they tweeted out like, I'm giving away

a PS5 or whatever the number is, and just like, send me $400 and I'm donating the money

to St. Jude's.

And this guy Matt, I, when I got back in my Twitter, I saw that he sent two times the

asked amount.

He was like, he's like, I just want to set it, went ahead and sent you $1,000, just,

you know, so St. Jude's has a little extra money.

And I was like, Oh my God, dude, that, that, that sucks.

I'm so sorry about this.

And he was like, Oh, no big deal.

And I was like, all right, well, who, who are you that you're this nice?

And I clicked out and he runs this website called market beat.

Have you ever heard of market beat?

Only when you, you, you shared this in the trends group.

So I did a little bit of stalking at that time because I was like, what is that?

You know, your tweet was intriguing you because you had said something like, I met a guy who

runs a company that does 25 million a year in revenue, only 13 employees.

And it was like 17 million of the 25 was profit.

And I was like, all right, I'm fully aroused.

Tell me more.

This company got him.

Yeah.

And so he sent me a picture of his quick books and he was like, here's the profit.

I mean, keep in mind, this doesn't include my huge sale or my huge salary is part of

the expenses, but we actually do 17 million of profit.

The PNL that he sent me, it's like, I think 13 million of profit.

So it's called the market beat market beat.com.

And for the first two years, it was just him.

And you go to what it is.

Yeah.

Like what is it?

Yeah.

So it's Google like HubSpot price targets, because I'm curious what HubSpot's what analysts

think the stock might be in one year.

And he shows up early in Google one, two, three, if you Google Amazon price targets,

target price targets, whatever, like any company.

And it's, he calls it a web portal, but if you didn't know better, you would look at

and just call it a media company.

So you, you see different headlines and different news is kind of like Wall Street Journal,

but really even more niche and just for stocks, just for dividend stocks.

And it's just a way to really quickly see headlines of what's coming up.

So it's kind of like a portal or a data aggregator where you could just like see like, all right,

this stock has an earnings call on this date.

So it's basically just a place to get information, but it's also part media company because they

have, they published 250 articles a year, or sorry, a month.

And they have contractors who they pay $150 per article to write these.

He told me, he goes, regardless, if the articles don't actually add to any of our revenue, people

come to the website mostly just to see like the stock prices and things like that.

And so right now the guy has 11 employees and I actually have a list of, sorry, 13 employees.

I have a list of what they all do.

He's got four developers, four support people, one ad guy, one accountant, one content manager,

one marketing assistant and him.

And they make money through subscription and through advertising, most of which comes through

advertising.

They've got 15,000 subscribers who pay between $20,000 and $40 a month and one ad guy selling

all these ads.

And it's mostly direct marketing and he's got a bunch of different brands.

Like he's got...

Sorry, so you're going faster.

So just to break down that revenue, it sounded like subscriptions is something like four

or $5 million a year out of the 25, is that right?

He told me 15,000 premium subscribers and they pay either $20 or $40 a month depending

on whichever one they get.

So let's call it 30.

So that's five and a half million from the subscription, from the premium.

And then the rest being ad revenue.

Yeah.

20 million of ads.

Okay.

Wow.

Crazy, right?

And there's only one ad sales person.

He doesn't have a team of ad sales guys and they'll sell directly to large like maybe

like the Motley Fool or some other like stock picking newsletter or some other financial

brand or some company looking to promote their stock or different financial brokers, financial

products like wealth advisors, things like that.

But if an advertiser is too small, they just work with an agency and they just say, hey

agency, we've got some leftover inventory.

You want to put your ads in here?

And it's just one guy doing the whole thing.

Do it all.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

So it seems like the trick for them and by trick, I mean hard work and strategy.

Yeah.

Oh, by the way, I think they've been around for 15 years.

Right.

It's SEO.

It's SEO that drives the bulk of the traffic.

Is that the idea?

I think early on now it has a little bit of a brand before I even knew the guy, I would

actually go to it all the time just to look because they're really nicely organized.

Like I'm on like the Amazon one right now and it's basically like it has just like a

bunch of stuff put together.

It's like, oh, here's the execs.

Here's the CEO.

Here's their age.

Here's their pay.

It's like, here's the, you know, here's the percent shareholding, you know, amongst

these different groups.

Yeah.

Here's the analyst targets, et cetera.

It's kind of ugly by traditional web, you know, 2.0 standards.

Like it doesn't meet any of the design requirements that like Airbnb would approve of, but in my

mind it's perfect.

It actually is designed beautifully.

Like it works wonderfully.

And so it's like a cluttered website.

It kind of looks like Drudge Report or Craigslist or something or eBay.

Like it's this messy website, but I think it's quite good.

We need to put together a compilation of what I'm calling Sam's Ugly Ducklings.

And this is an example of Sam's Ugly Ducklings, which is this website that like, who the fuck

even heard of this?

It doesn't look super fancy.

It's kind of been around for a while.

It's got this like niche passionate audience.

Drudge Report is one.

This is another.

You've showed me like 10 of these in the last year.

And I think people are, I think people really dig these.

And so we should do an episode that just highlights each one of these.

And it doesn't have to be like a podcast.

It's almost like a screen share.

Maybe it's just for YouTube.

Or like there's this guy reaching out.

He's trying to turn our podcast into like an ebook or whatever, like a really nicely

designed PDF.

We should have him do it on your ugly ducklings because he's got extensive notes on what you

talk about in each episode.

Really?

And so this guy in India, I forgot his name, but I'm talking to him right now to get one

of these made for us because I think it'd be dope, right?

That'd be sick.

Dude, it's embarrassing.

Like I get some people who are like, now there's people who are like, I would say kind of like

a little more successful in the tech industry that are getting into our podcast.

Because I feel like before we were kind of like a different audience for whatever reason.

Like kids.

Almost like kids.

No, not kids.

It was more like just like entrepreneurial, I would say is definitely a big component

of it, which might be kids, but might be like somebody of the 30s that wants to make a change

or whatever.

Or it's just like, yeah, I own this awesome business.

I'm based out of Peoria, Illinois.

And it's like, what the fuck?

Who are you?

And how did you find us?

But like that was more of our main target.

And now I'm getting people that are like kind of the hardest Silicon Valley that are like,

I kind of got hooked to the podcast.

And I'm like, dude, I've been telling you about this for like two years.

And they're like, yeah, it's actually good.

And they're like, what are like the best episodes?

You got like 200.

And I was like, I don't really know.

He's like, well, what's like a place to find the most popular ones?

I was like, I don't have it.

He's like, is there a place with summaries?

I was like, no, not really.

He's like, well, you have all these ideas.

Is there a compilation of all the ideas?

I was like, ah, there should be someone.

I think all the obvious like kind of like growth things that you would do or like onboarding

things you would do.

But none of, and so I'm like kind of embarrassed about that, but I'm not embarrassed.

Who cares?

It's working.

Yeah.

I just think it would help us.

Like I think I would want that if I was getting into a podcast.

And let me, this is funny.

Let me tell you how I found out about Market Beat.

I was reading Starter Story.

I liked that website Starter Story.

And one of the questions is what books and podcasts do you read?

And he said, on the podcast front, I really enjoy listening to My First Million, which

breaks down unique ways that business owners are using unique ways business owners are generating

massive profits.

That's how I found out about about this guy is because he said he listens to us as his

only podcast.

Oh, nice.

That's great.

Who told you that they're listening?

I don't want to say their name, but you know, someone cool.

That's cool.

That's always funny when people listen.

Dude, I was with my dad when I took, I took my parents to Europe and I brought my parents

to this conference and my parents are like, you know, in their sixties from Missouri and

they were walking around this conference and they were like, oh, we love swag.

They call it swag.

I think it's like, I think it's supposed to be swag.

They go, we love swag, which means free stuff.

And they're like, oh, let's go to this company and get this.

And it's like some like European sales marketing company.

I'm like, you know, dad, like no one gives a shit about like, you know, sales.io.

I don't know what they do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was like, he's like, oh, let's go talk to him.

Like, dude, I don't like, you don't even know what that means.

I can tell you what they go.

What do they do?

I'm like, I can use words to explain it, but you won't understand.

And so he's, well, let's go get some swag.

They're giving away like free, uh, bouncy ball, bouncy ball, like shawarma, but it's

just he's like, he's like, let's go get a ball.

We're gonna bring it back for the kids.

Their grandkids.

They go, let's go.

Like, oh, they have envelope openers.

Like, let's go get one for the kids.

Oh, they got candy.

I'm like, mom, this is a Snickers.

Like you could.

That's awesome.

He's just going to give it to you in the hotel.

He's like, hey kid, I got you this bouncy ball and you're going to be like, sweet.

And they're bringing like, they're bringing like kinder chocolate, you know, like kinder,

like eggs.

And you guys realize that you can get that at seven 11 down the street from your house.

Like this isn't special and they're just grabbing all this stuff and they brought an empty suitcase

because they knew they were going to find swag and just the file.

And so like I come home, I come home on my four year old nephew is like wearing a t-shirt

that says like, hi, we're here to help with customer solutions.

Like it is.

And it's like the kids are bragging that they got that from Europe.

I'm like, oh my God.

Yeah, it's European.

It's European fashion.

Yeah.

They're like, what's this brand?

Gideon.

It's just, it's just, yeah, they're just like crazy and then they're at this conference

and they're like, they're talking to people and they go to people.

I hear like, I would, it was hard for me to stay next to them and I hear them talking

to people.

They go, hey, do you like podcasts?

Do you like podcasts?

Do you love podcasts?

And the guy would be like, yeah, you know, I listened.

He goes, my dad calls him, he goes, Sam, he says he listens to eight podcasts.

I'll tell him to listen to yours.

What's the name of it again?

And I'm like, oh, dad, like, how do you know, you don't know the name.

It's called, it's called my first one.

He goes, oh, okay, I'll tell him.

Hey, so it's called my first million.

And then he'll come back goes, hey, I got you another listener.

I made a quick subscribe and he's just going up to people saying like, you like podcasts?

Oh, great.

I got you.

I'll get you.

I'll get you subscribe and he doesn't know the name of the podcast every single time

he goes, what's it called?

A million dollar podcast.

He's like, I listen to it all the time.

It's my favorite.

But what's it called again?

My mom does the same thing, dude.

She clicks every ad in my newsletter.

She's like, I clicked your ads today to help you.

I'm like, mom, I don't know.

It's not going to count.

It's not going to do anything.

She's like, no, no, you said you could pay it if they click, right?

I'm like, well, kind of, you know, you got to go buy the thing.

And then she's like, oh, I'm not going to buy it.

I'm like, yeah, you also don't need to click it.

In fact, you don't even need to read it.

I don't think you're interested in this subject.

That's hilarious.

That is so funny.

God, it's so funny.

You should have seen them walking around just like putting around this conference like

saying like, oh, Sammy, come look at, let's look at this booth.

And it's just, I don't even know what it is.

Like, I don't even know what it is.

You know what I mean?

It's like procurement.

I'm like, I don't, I don't even know what that means, dad.

Neither do you.

You definitely don't know what that means.

Dude, that's so funny.

It's like procurement.

So, so Romine who runs like, he's my, basically my partner in my fund.

And Romine's got this company that's like, kind of like an old school baller company

in, based out of like Georgia, right?

Yeah.

So he lives in Georgia.

So he's like in the tech scene, but he kind of lives in Georgia and runs kind of like

a bit of an old school, more, more service based company that like, I think his wife's

dad or something started and he like took it over and like grew it a bunch and is doing

great with it.

So I think the business does like 50 million a year or something.

It's like a sizable business.

And so I'm, I've asked him, I think no less than 15 times.

Like, so yo, yo, so what does your business do again?

And he'd be like, yeah, we do procurement for, for SMBs and for whatever enterprise companies.

I'm like, like you get office supplies.

I can't wrap my head around what procurement is.

And he's like, he's like, you know what the word procurement means, right?

And I'm like, yeah.

He's like, so it's that.

And I'm like, but see, I guess I don't know what the word means then.

Cause I still don't know.

Like, like, does, does anyone use staples anymore?

Like, I don't, yeah.

He's like, he's like, it's not office supplies.

It's like, you know, you need a vendor for something.

But I was like, so then why wouldn't you just Google and get the vendor?

He's like, yeah, but like bigger companies, they just do it differently.

They need like this middleman who's going to basically like help them get the things

that they need.

And I'm like, you get paid for that.

It's like, yeah.

Is it like someone who just like knows all the people who do blank and they just talk

to them on the phone?

I think I still fucking don't know.

Dude, I'm on explanation number 17.

In fact, I just feel bad now every time I ask him or I try to tell somebody else what

he does.

Cause I'm like, I clearly don't know.

It's almost like, you know, like there's like a spot in my brain where there's just

like, if you did a scan, it would just be like, oh, there's some dark cloud here.

Like, yeah, that's the part of my brain that's trying to understand procurement.

And it's just never happening.

It's just like a fuzzy region.

So I've got a story related to this.

So two days ago, Saturday night, I went out to dinner at like the fan, a fancy place in

St. Louis.

And we get to dinner and my dad goes, all right.

Yeah.

My dad goes, hey, the, the president of NASCAR.

I guess NASCAR like performed or race or whatever you call it yesterday, Sunday in St. Louis.

And he goes, my dad likes NASCAR.

He goes, that's the president of NASCAR.

Like Jim Nance or I don't forget his name.

And the football commentator.

Yeah.

The football.

It was Nance up and not Jim Nance.

Yeah.

And he, and I was like, oh yeah, you know, he's sitting with this guy named David Stewart.

He's like the second richest black man in the world.

And that's like, it's like, it's pretty funny.

I'm like, I knew exactly who that rich guy was because he's, he's worth like four or

$5 billion.

And I, and I start researching him and I was like, yeah, I've seen that guy before.

I've seen him on articles because he's like the second or third richest black man.

And he's from St. Louis.

He's like the richest guy in St. Louis.

And he's got this company called Worldwide Systems.

You've never heard of that.

Have you?

No.

So it does $14 billion a year.

And it's like the fourth or eighth, like in the top 10 largest privately held companies

in the world.

And him and his partner just own, own the whole thing outright.

And what they do is they're a systems integrator.

And that's one of those words like procurement.

I heard that.

And I'm like, what does that mean?

And so I went on this deep dive.

I'm like, I got to figure out exactly what they do.

I don't understand this.

And then like it, it says they're a Cisco systems integrator.

And I went to Cisco's website and I'm like, what a Cisco.

Yeah.

And they're like networking, hardware networking or like networking hardware.

And I've like read those words and I'm like, well, no, like the website will just be like

networking redefined.

And you're like, I didn't, I didn't know the first definition.

Yeah.

I didn't know we had to change that definition.

And then like they talk about like switches and stuff.

And I'm like, I don't know what like a switch is.

I guess it has to do electronics.

Like I just, I didn't have any idea what this stuff did.

And, but I Google it and like, I know that Cisco is like one of the largest companies

in the world.

Like I don't know what it is.

And so I had a research, it took me forever to figure out what a systems integrator is.

Do you know what it is?

Dude, no, I don't know any, I don't know what this, I don't know what SAP does.

I've been on a mission also done.

I don't know what SAP does for a long time.

And they're European though.

They got a different word for everything.

We'd never be able to figure that out.

I feel like sometimes I'm watching TV and it'll just pop up SAP.

And I think it means like closed captioning or Spanish or something like that.

I'm like, oh, this is different.

Now I'm super confused about SAP.

Yeah.

I don't even know their company after their stock ticker either.

It's kind of weird.

But they, so, so a systems integrator basically.

So what my father-in-law does for a living is if you're like Chase and you have a hundred

employees working on floor 18 and you're like, Hey, we got to move these hundred employees

at the floor 43 in the same building.

He studies it for a few weeks.

And then you go to home for work on Friday and you come back on the floor at 47 and you

sit down at your desk.

That's already set up and everything just works.

And there's no downtime.

And I think system integrators kind of do that.

But like if you're a $20 billion company and you're selling like a $3 billion division

to this other thing, like they have to go to work one day and like all their computers

are new or like this new setup exists.

Or if you're like a hospital and you're like, we need an app.

And it's like, well, it's not as simple as just like, check it into your lobby and saying

you're there.

Like you got to like integrate all this crap into it.

And I think that's what they do.

But I don't know why they don't just call it like an agency.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know either.

But I do know like, you know, I guess like jokes aside, you know, there's basically things

that are like, like, you know, NetSuite, NetSuite's another one of these where you're like,

I don't know what, what is NetSuite?

Is that like QuickBooks but different?

It's basically like, I mean, I'll butcher the thing.

But like, I mean, people use it for like inventory management, for example.

So it's basically like a database that's like usable for like, it's usable in a couple

of different ways.

It tells you what you got.

It tells you what's like running out.

It tells you what you need.

It'll tell you kind of like, it'll help generate a purchase order.

It'll do things like that.

By the way, if you go to NetSuite's website, I just went to it.

It says, complete procure to pay purchasing.

Oh no.

Procurement.

It has to do with this too.

But basically there's, there's entire companies.

I think this is what, you know, like.

The P word.

Deloitte and other, other consulting companies do a lot of, which is basically they teach

your company.

Like these companies, these businesses, they're these programs are so unintuitive that there's

entire consulting businesses that generate billions of dollars a year that just go to

a company like, oh, like right here on their website, Love Sack uses them.

So it's like, you go to Love Sack.

You're like, great.

You guys sell giant beanbags, huh?

They're like, yeah.

Like, you know, those things are getting a little out of hand to get a little willy nilly

now that it's growing so much.

Yeah, it is.

Sure is.

Don't you wish there was just a way to have everything organized in one place and a system

that just all talked to each other and every one of your employees can log in and interface

with it.

They're like, that sounds pretty good.

So I just go set it up on my own.

I just go to the website and they're like, no, no, no.

We do that for you.

It takes 12 months and we will, we will add net suite to your thing.

We will add Oracle.

We will add these different services to your, we will, we will integrate them into your

current business and we'll train your employees on how to actually use it.

Is that what service revenue in a SaaS line?

So if you go to like Atlassian and look at their annual report, there's a huge amount

of services revenue.

So do they charge in a, I don't know what the service, how they, what they bucket in

services.

I would have thought like, does that mean just the software, but I think it's different

for different companies, but at the same time, this is sort of like, if you were like,

hey, Sean, you know, what does it mean to blanch a vegetable?

I'd be like, you know, I think it uses hot and cold water in some way.

It's like, you know, like, I just don't know, right?

Like, if you're asking me about like, what are these like giant enterprise companies

that are like B2B service slash software companies?

Like, these are like, again, I don't know the first thing about the first thing about

the craziest thing to me is when I think about these is to understand how someone came up

with this idea.

So for example, there's octa, do you know octa?

That's what we use for like log in into like websites and shit like that.

Or there's what's that one snowflake, you know, snowflake, so like those are all companies

that are founded relatively recently, like in the 2005, 2015 era.

And I'm like, how did a person know that this was a problem and had to get billed?

You know what I mean?

Well, you're just working in a big company, right?

Like, okay.

So for example, we were talking the other day about, what is it called?

The, or like, like we have, like you, you were a chimp for companies.

Yeah, exactly.

What was the name of it again?

I can't remember the name off the top of my head.

I just committed to invest into it.

But well, basically we're, when we ran a company or like you ran a, you know, like an email

based company.

And so if I asked you, you know, like, what does convert kit do?

You're like, if a very well versed on like, what convert kit does?

Cause you're like, well, like here's the scenario, you get a bunch of people come to your website,

but you, you know, you want to grab their email because you're going to be able to market

to them later.

So convert kit lets you put up a little webpage that grabs your email.

And then once you have it, you want to be able to like tag them or segment them based

on like, if they've paid for your thing or if they're free.

And then like, wouldn't it be cool instead of like waking up every day and like writing

the same email over and over again, you could like automate a sequence of emails, one that

goes out on day one, one goes out on day three, one goes out on day 10.

And it's like, you saw a problem in your business and therefore, you know, you kind of understand

what the solutions are and you can even create them.

Well, there's another one that's like, like, you know, that this is basically what happens

when you're, when you work inside of a large company, you're like, oh man, there needs

to be a solution for X, you just see a problem and you're like, there needs to be a solution

for X.

And that context, because it's like, like we spent basically 15 years just starting

companies from scratch.

You started media companies.

I started more like software, social networking type of companies.

And we've done content a bunch so we can tell you all about content.

Like we just don't have that, that same frame of reference to that.

Like somebody who's been like, you know, somebody who's used Salesforce every single day for

like 10 years, then they understand why you need this like Salesforce add on, which all

the time I'm like, damn, I wish I knew how to do this stuff that people charged a million

dollars a year subscription revenue.

I'm like, damn, I just got to talk to some stupid freaking guy about starting a newsletter

and give the same spiel constantly.

I don't want to talk about how to get your first thousand subscribers on sub stack.

You know, I'd rather get paid like a million dollars a year to do X, Y and Z and get, you

know, get a hundred thousand customers.

Yeah, I mean, exactly.

And this is why like when I was at Twitch, when we got acquired, I had like, I had wrote

down, I'm going to walk out of here with like 10 ideas and I use that import, export framework,

which is like, what are five ideas that Twitch would import a solution for?

Like we need something like in a country needs something they import it, you know, like the

US needs oil, we import it from whatever Iraq or whatever Afghanistan, wherever it needs

to come from Saudi Arabia.

And so in the same way companies have these pain points and you're like, when you're sitting

there and you're like, oh damn, if somebody had us, if somebody had a magic way to do

this, we would pay a hundred thousand dollars a month for this, you know, we would pay X

dollars for this.

Like for example, when I was there, I talked about this idea way back in the day, but like

all hands, it's like at our company, you know, if I needed to say something to the whole

company as a startup, I would just like literally fucking stand up at my desk and be like, hey,

hey, yo headphones, we're doing this now, the company we pivoted to this.

Okay.

Good.

Or like, you know, we'd be at lunch and I'd just like stand up and say something.

And so like at a company like twice, 2000 people, you know, there was like this organized

every Thursday.

There's an all hands.

It happens at lunch.

They do it at lunch because that's where they've like a captive audience of people that will

actually sit there and pay attention because they're eating and like, and they would do

the thing and it had like a presentation and there was like a whole, there was like a conductor

of the whole ceremony and then there's like a Q and A and they needed like this question

and answer thing.

Then they needed to stream it to remote employees.

It was like all these things they had to think about.

And we were just stitching together like these four different tools like we use this for

the Q and A, we use this for streaming, we use this for the presentation, we use this

for new employees, whatever.

And I was like, oh, if somebody just made like a really good, like all hands software,

I'm pretty sure you could get a company like Twitch to pay like 25 to $50,000 a year for

your software and it would need to be secure.

It would need to be, you know, easy to stream on your phone.

It would need to have the Q and A integrated like, et cetera, et cetera.

And I believe that to be true.

And like I could go validate them, I could have just gone and talked to like, you know,

the head of the all in the all hands thing and be like, Hey, if this existed, would

you buy this?

And like, I saw that problem because I was there before that I didn't even see that problem.

Yeah.

And we had talked about it.

It was like a high school newspaper, but for your company.

Yeah.

By the way, workshop is the name that came to me now.

So use workshop.com.

So it's pretty sick.

We talked to us before, which is in insight, like we all have like MailChimp or you have

like SendGrid.

You have a ton of different services to send mass marketing emails to customers.

But like there's actually internal marketing too that happens all the time.

Like a company is like a small, like, you know, tribe and like you constantly need like

information and sort of propaganda from the top that needs to get to your employees.

And whether it's like, Hey, remember this Friday, we're doing casual Friday, like,

you know, whatever, don't wear underwear this Friday, but you have to like get some message

across about like what's going on or it's like, Hey, we had these wins and the company

like congrats to this team for launching this safety feature that saved us whatever.

And so what use workshop does is basically creates like a little MailChimp for inside

your company.

So let's you do list.

Did they want, but did they launch this because of our podcast or were they already working

on it?

No, I think they were already working on it.

And we just got connected from, we got connected when they were they were doing, somebody pointed

it out to me.

They're like, Hey, these guys are doing almost exactly what you're talking about.

I reached out and they're like, and the guy was awesome.

He's like, Yeah, we had this past company that was successful.

We kind of like, you know, like this is our second merry-go-round.

We got the team back together to do this.

And then it's like, it's working.

Hey, we just signed this client, this client, this client, big name, big name, big name.

They showed me the chart of revenue and I was like, Oh, this is like so spot on.

Like I really think that a tool like this is going to exist and it's going to work.

Yeah.

This is sick.

And like the design is really good.

Like if you go to the design of the page, it's like, just like, clearly these people

are good at like, they're good at simple products.

And that's kind of all you need to do to be able to build something like this is like

yeah, nice, clean, simple, easy to use.

And they have the use cases.

So for employee engagement, right, a change of management, company alignment, hybrid

work, mergers and acquisitions, internal marketing, it's pretty sick.

Measuring performance.

Yeah, this is awesome.

And like, you know, you send these emails out normally in your company.

You don't have the open rate.

You don't have the open tracking.

You don't know who's actually engaged and who's not in your company emails.

You don't know how you can't test the subject line difference and be like, oh, this one

got way more people to respond to the engagement survey or whatever we sent out.

And so it lets the internal comms team like do their job better.

They didn't really have a tool before this.

Are you angel investing actively right now?

Yeah.

You stopped, right?

Are you like took a break?

Well, I've taken a break because A, the markets and B, because I'm working on this.

I got my, I could talk about a little bit, but I got like 20 customers already for my

new project.

Oh, nice.

Okay.

Let's talk about this.

Let's do the angel investing thing first though.

So I heard something interesting, like my initial reaction was to do what you're doing,

which was like, I don't know, the world's crazy.

I lost a bunch of money.

Everywhere I look, prices are going down.

Like, you know, stocks are going down, crypto is going down, everything's going down.

Maybe I should just bunker down for the season and just like, you know, chill out a little

bit with investing in these like high risk illiquid startups.

But at the same time, then I heard somebody say something.

I think it was somebody on all in on the podcast, one of their guests, he had said something.

He was like, he's like, actually, they're like, are you slowing down?

And he was like, no, this is the time to speed up.

He goes, you know, the last few years, I was like getting pretty worried and I thought

like maybe it's time to slow down because valuations were getting really high.

There's just everybody, there's too much capital flowing around, everybody's throwing money

at everything.

It's really, you know, when you would do a deal, it'd be like, you wouldn't be able

to get all the information you need.

It's like, hey, dude, we're closing, like you're either in or you're out.

You don't have time to do like certain level of diligence.

He's like, I actually think that those like, of vintages of companies, right?

Like, you know, like a, like a vintage of wine, like the 1985 Bordeaux was so good.

It's like, basically that happens in startup investing too, where like certain vintages

turn out really good and certain are kind of dry.

They don't have any big winners.

If you look, basically after every kind of like market crash or recession is like those

next three years are some of the best vintages for startups.

And so like this happened after the kind of 2002, 2001 crash and like the next vintage

that came out was like, had LinkedIn, had Facebook, had like a bunch of large companies.

I agree with that, but like the valuations, maybe it could, it's like, it feels like it's

changing week by week, but like two weeks ago when I was looking at a few deals, the

valuations were still quite high.

Yeah, I think they are coming down and they're coming down week by week.

You're absolutely right.

And I, you know, you could be disciplined on that where you're just like, oh, you haven't

gotten the memo that like, you know, what used to be 50 million is now 22 million.

And what used to be 20 million is now eight.

Like you need to get that memo.

And some people just haven't got that memo yet, but like a lot of that I'm, I'm, I'm

waiting like that amount, like just a few more weeks, maybe until so that's when I say

wait, that's what I mean, because we were talking to people and they weren't budging.

And I was like, well, all right, well, wait, and now I'm getting emails from some like

portfolio companies and they're like, you could see their cash balance and how much

money they have left.

And it's like, damn man, I think there actually might be like a lot of things going out of

business in six months.

I think they're absolutely will be.

I mean, I've been getting a ton of, hey, we just raised this extra money.

Like a lot of smart founders basically are like taking the bag while it's available just

to give themselves a buffer because like who knows how much worse it's going to get.

And but the values are coming down.

I actually think that like this, this year, next year, the next basically two or two and

a half years are going to be like kind of an awesome vintage of startups to be investing

in because you're getting all the, you know, like none of the big trends have changed.

Like the world's just getting more tech enabled.

Tech is just going into more and more industries, size of the price getting bigger.

There's more and more people coming online, machine learning, all that stuff's making

stuff better.

Like all of that's still true.

It's just that the prices got cut in half.

And so it's like, oh, good.

I'm, I'm, I'm on board.

I'm just like, wait, I'm just thinking that like there's, there's so far been like

this two, three week period where it's like, there's a discrepancy.

I'll get fixed.

I think in like two, three, four, five, six weeks, you know, I think that's going to happen

pretty, pretty soon.

Should we talk about your, your thing now?

All right.

Well, we could, yeah, I don't want to do a devoted thing because I'm not going to announce

what it is entirely yet.

So, but we can kind of talk about it, but basically, like I'm kind of going back to

my roots.

I'm launching this new thing.

I'm not even saying I'm launching it.

I'm more so like launching enough of it to prove or disapprove if it's a good idea.

Okay.

And I've gotten like, I forget exactly like tens of thousands in revenue in the first

two weeks.

Amazing.

And, and I didn't tweet about it once.

So, so tell me this, tell me what are you doing differently this time around than you

did?

So last time you started this rodeo was maybe six years ago, something like that.

Yeah.

So now with, you did the whole hustle chapter that you get acquired to go to HubSpot, you

see a bunch of things, you meet a bunch of people, you get smarter, wiser, all that stuff.

You got some hair on your chest now.

And so it's like, what's, what did you decide like, all right, this time I'm doing these

things differently or was early on, early on I was like against outsourcing or hiring

anyone overseas or hiring like cheap labor or hourly labor and I was like, no, I want

to create jobs and I want to like do salary position with benefits.

And now I'm not doing that.

Really maybe we'll add some people like that.

But now it's like, just how do I automate this?

And how do I like get someone overseas just to do this like a machine?

And I just don't really care if I don't have any employees and I want to, I'd prefer being

alone.

So that's the big difference.

The second difference is, well, this, the same similarity is I'm doing it all by hand

and this is totally the right move and I stand by that.

So before I wrote everything, I sold the first ads, I did it all.

This time I'm doing the same thing.

So I'm literally doing the cold emailing.

I'm getting them on the phone.

I'm doing the sales.

I'm listening to them.

I'm doing that constantly and getting those reps in is actually really impactful and you

could actually like see what's happening.

But I, by the way, I got that revenue, 0% of the revenue has come through our website.

It's all been from cold emailing people on LinkedIn and getting them on the phone and

then just sending them a Stripe account.

Amazing.

What, what else, what else is different about your mindset?

I bet there's more.

Way more confident for sure.

There is still a sense of urgency, so like wanting to move fast and like, I have to get

this done.

I have to do this, but more so like, I have to get this done.

But also remember, like I may do this for like 20 years.

So like having this longer term, this longer horizon, what I learned with my business,

we sold around year five and the truth is most the value created between year five and

year six was more probably than the value of zero to five combined.

And I was, I wasn't impatient because I'm happy I did what I did because it unlocked

a lot for my life.

But had I not, I said this a bunch of times, if I was already wealthy, I would never have

sold because real value seems like it comes like, no, I've only experienced a business

from like around year five, but it seems like maybe there's something that happens to your

five, your six or values created.

And then who knows, maybe someone who's owned a company for years is like, man, 20 and 30

is when like, shit, magic really happened.

So I don't know.

But I do think like year five, if you bootstrap is around the time where you're like, all

right, I recruited some actually good people.

I've got people doing help and everything, but like, I don't know, do you agree with

like year five, year six, year seven is where some crazy stuff happens?

I think it's just, I think it's just generally true, right?

Like you plant seeds and they water them and you water them and you look at them and you're

trying not to just go dig up the dirt and be like, why the fuck aren't you growing?

But like at some point, those things do start to grow, like we're seeing this with our e-commerce

business too, which was, my buddy had told me this, he goes, he goes, there's this magic

moment in e-commerce where you've, you've brute-forced enough of the like building your

brand and getting, getting new people to try you, where every month you're returning customers

just come back because they love your product and you don't have to remarket, you don't

have to spend money remarketing to them.

And then the business goes from like this giant cash suck to this giant cash cow if

you do it right.

And, and I was, and we just started to hit a tipping point like that where you could

say, and it's not every month, but there's some months where I'm like, whoa, what just

happened?

And it's like, oh yeah, that's, that's what's happening.

Like we actually just, last year we brute-forced and got a bunch of people to love our product

and then they came back and bought and this, like a bunch of them came back and bought this

month to where it outweighed all of the new investments that we're making.

Like, wow, that's nice.

Or like at Twitch, we were always doing these like planning exercises about like, you know,

these profitability targets, I can't say too much, but like basically profitability targets.

And I think Emmett had said something, he was like, yeah, we, from the, like, he's like

pretty early on we modeled it out and it was like, it's going to take like 10 years probably

and this, and he said a huge number, he's like X billion in revenue for us to, you know, break

even.

And I was like, that's just a crazy idea that it's like, we need to get to X billion in

revenue for this to be profitable.

And like, but it, like, that's, you know, that's the, that's what actually how it was

playing out.

Yeah.

And it's like, whoa, like I hadn't even really like Amazon, I think we had a sort of, had

a semi-similar story Amazon, I think for 15 years or something like that was like unprofitable

on the whole.

But the difference in Amazon was like the individual divisions were getting very profitable after

like a repeatable, like a reliable, like, I don't know, let's call it four-year cycle.

It's like books got super profitable.

But by the time books was getting profitable, they were investing heavily in CDs and music

and these other things.

And so then the total always looked unprofitable, but they knew internally, this is just a clock

that goes, you know, every X, it's going to take four years or whatever it is to this

unit to get profitable.

And once they're all profitable, this thing's going to be like unbelievable, which is where

it's at now.

Trusting that process is really hard, particularly for first time entrepreneurs with Bezos and

Emmett or I guess, you know, after like 10 years, it's like, well, I'm not exactly a

first time founder anymore.

But you know what I mean?

Well, I'll say the way I'm saying the Twitch one right now sounds a bit like a master plan,

like, oh, I'm, I can see this coming and I'll, oh, whatever.

It's like, no, it was more like, oh, shit, we got users, oh, fuck, the costs are really

high.

What if we raise money?

Okay.

What do we got to tell these guys?

What are you going to tell these investors or how they're going to get their money back?

Maybe this business model will work and maybe on this timeline and then like we update that

information every two years and like, I think, you know, I think Twitch had like a thing

where it was like, we're going to be profitable in three years and they've been saying that

for the last six, you know, like, that's just like been a thing and that bus is very common

actually for businesses.

Right.

Yeah.

Like entrepreneurs generally pretty optimistic Elon's been saying self-driving cars will

come out this year for four years.

Like, you know, it's like entrepreneurs are usually right about the actual assessment

and they're wrong about the timeline or somebody gave me this great phrase.

They go, don't confuse a clear view for a short distance.

It's like, imagine you're driving, you see something so clearly, but it's like, it looks

like it's just right there, right?

Just right around the corner and like actually that corner is like a 10 year odyssey that

felt like, oh, it's got to be just two or three years away.

The last big thing that's different between now and then, you know, having some experience

versus no experience is the ability to say no and be like, oh, well, you're saying you

don't want this product, therefore, I guess I should change it.

It's like, oh, okay.

Well, that's okay.

If you don't want it, you're actually not who we're going for.

So you didn't, you didn't, my takeaway from this is not you, that my product is not good

and people don't want it.

It's just that I just, now I know I shouldn't target people like you and instead I should

only target people like this other person.

And that's like the huge thing where it's like, the vision is that we're going to be

this for this people.

Eventually, maybe it can expand beyond that, but for a while, this is what we are and this

is who we are for.

And if you don't talk to people who you think you are for, then it's okay.

That's just, they're not the right target market.

And I just targeted that customer poorly, but you should only like, you know, be one

thing for one type of person and you go deep on that.

And I'll oftentimes people will be like, but that's not that big.

But A, sometimes it is that big and B, it's like, that's okay.

You just got to like get that initial traction and then more opportunities spots itself.

But you have to be this one thing for this one person and ignore everyone else.

So my sister has a business, I don't know, have I told you about her like cloud kids

thing?

Well, I know she's a babysitter's a little, that's not actually accurate, but like day

care, right?

It was, it was, I guess it was kind of like an in-home daycare that became like a preschool

and became like an outdoor preschool, whatever it kind of evolved.

Yeah, by the way, sorry, I didn't mean to call that babysitting.

She would punch me in the face and I knew that wasn't the right, I knew it wasn't babysitting.

I was like, I called it, I'm about to say daycare.

Yeah, that's okay, that's right.

So, but during COVID, she pivoted to like an online thing.

Like a lot of businesses went from like, oh, shit, brick and mortar is really hard right

now because they're like, you know, every month the government is changing the rules

on what we can, if we can and can't operate our business.

So she created this thing called cloud kids.

So if you go to cloud kids with a Z, I think it's preschool.com, let me see if that's it.

Yeah, cloud kids with a Z preschool.com, so go to that website real quick and just look

at this.

I actually think she's done a pretty good job with the website.

Cloud kids, cloud kids what?

Cloud kids, I'll just put the link here, cloud kids with a Z preschool.com.

So check this out.

So this is like helping her with this has been pretty fun because she like, she built

this in like wicks.

I'm like, oh, wicks.

Oh, that's great.

Who's using wicks?

And then I was like, all right, you need to add like change the headline, you need to

add like a video.

The video needs to be not like a full on video, like just make it look like a teacher teaching

something.

Oh, dude, this looks amazing.

Exactly.

So now it's really good.

It used to be like, you know, get info.

Now it's like free trial, right?

Like just optimizing the landing page with her like headline, sub headline, button, hero

image, you know, reasons to reasons to buy all that stuff.

Like, and then she's like working with people and like Fiverr and Upwork to like do these

designs.

It's like, it's actually turned out pretty good.

So she created this thing, which is basically like these small group classes.

Like, let's say you have your kid at home, either because they're just like my like my

daughter, she's too young to go to school right now.

We don't want to send her to full time preschool, but like, we want her to like learn something

every day.

And it's like kind of takes a shit ton of energy to sit there and be like the engaging

patient parent and like keep your kids attention and be like, I'll teach you like how to write

the letter W today.

Like, but like with this, I'm like, I sit her down in front of the computer.

I get the materials in front of her with paper and crayon and like the teacher is like so

good.

They'll be like, all right, you know, like, hi, hi five.

Let's sing our welcome song.

And then they like do all the things.

So for one hour, she gets, it's like screen time without the guilt.

It's like the, she gets engaged like it's cartoons, but it's not cartoons because she's

actually like learning stuff and getting better.

And so she created this service and it's like, I was like, dude, this is actually a pretty

good product.

And she, she's hired these teachers and the teachers are like, like in Florida and different

places like that.

And so, so then she was, she calls me, she's like, oh, I'm just like struggling so much

with the growth.

And so I like, I was like, all right, well, like tell me what, like, she's like, oh, it's

just, it's not working.

And I was like, what were the numbers?

And so she gives me the numbers and she's basically like, I was like, okay, so let's

draw the funnel.

And she's like, what's a funnel?

And I'm like, all right, just imagine like at the top, you know, you're getting leads

like people who come to your website and then some of them give you your email, some of

them sign up for free trial, some of them actually show up and then some of them become

a fully paid customer.

So we drew that funnel out as like, oh, actually this conversion rates kind of awesome.

I was like, why do you, and then, and I was like, so what's your cost per lead?

Is that really high?

It's like, no, it's like not high at all.

And this is with like, you know, this like $50 a day, $100 a day ad budget.

Like, it's just like, I don't even know how to do Facebook ads.

I just put in like, you know, a hundred and I just wanted to see what would happen.

And like, I was like, wow, this is actually like, this business is kind of amazing.

So you pay back your customer in less than a month.

She's like, I don't know if you say so.

I'm like, yeah, like that's what your numbers say.

You basically pay back before your ads bill is even due.

It's like the, the ultimate like thing you want with ads driven business is like to get

the revenue from a customer profitably before you even pay your credit card bill.

And to give the listener context, so it prices range from $40 a week to, so you could, all

right.

I understand.

So you can get classes one day, two day, three day, four day a week.

It all ranges from like $160 a month to $400 a month.

And you get, it's basically, it's a, the tagline is actually quite good.

Although the website needs a little work.

Like I clicked on the FAQs and it goes to privacy policy, but that's all right.

Live online preschool classes, the number one live preschool program from home.

This is the beautiful line.

We provide the curriculum, teachers and friends.

Right.

That's great.

And then there's a video.

Is this like this woman who works for her?

You don't have a white sister.

Yeah.

That's what I'm interested in.

And it is great.

I'm all about this.

This is beautiful.

By the way, the art is actually really good.

Yeah.

It's pretty good.

Right.

And so, so this, and so then the reason I bring this up is, is because you're talking

about handling a no handling and objection.

And what I learned when I was like diving in, I was like, your funnel is not broken.

Your website is good.

Your services, your retention is amazing.

I was like, even your ad like row as your payback period is also amazing.

So I was like, what are you talking about this thing?

And she's like, well, I mean, like I talked to like, you know, so many people, they all

just, you know, they don't come back for the, from the free trial.

I'm like, but you're converting 20% or something like that to from free to paid.

That's like best on the energy.

She's like, yeah, but like I talked to eight moms that were like, you know, we can't do

it for this or this reason.

And I was like, yeah, but eight out of 10 is eight out of 10 knows that means two out

of 10.

Yes, is that's a 20% conversion.

That's again, amazing.

And the numbers back out where this business is like an awesome business.

And I think what happened was the psychology, because I told her, I was like, Hey, if you

want to close more people, call everybody who just did your free trial and see if they'll

convert to paid and be like, Hey, I'm the owner of the school.

How did you like it?

So glad, you know, I saw, I dropped in on the class.

I saw she was doing great.

I'm like, do you think you want to continue and like, did you want to do more classes?

And like, oh, payments problem, like we can help you with a payment plan because a lot

of the people who are doing this, they're like Detroit inner city, like there's a lot

of people that are basically like, Hey, I can't pay for full time caretaking.

I can't pay for even full school or like in Detroit, for example, so what I learned through

this was in Detroit, the public schools are full.

So you just can't send your kid.

Can you believe that?

So people are like six years old and they're like, yeah, the school's full and I can't

afford private school.

I've never heard public school can be full and like that's what's going on in Detroit

right now.

Dude, is this, is this your sister just like move over, Sean, there's a new, there's a

new big swing, a D at the house.

Well, the funny thing is she's, she's got a better product in business than I have in

any of my businesses in terms of all the core metrics are stronger than all of mine.

The product offering, the retention, stronger than anything.

The problem is, not a problem, actually, the, she doesn't want to like, she's not trying

to do world domination.

She's like, no, this would be great if we got to like 50 students and like, well, then

you'll want a hundred, right?

She's like, no, because that'll be way more work.

Like at 50, I already have these great teachers that can handle 50.

I just want to fill up my occupancy.

And like, she truly is like, well, because when I do that, and then I can go work out

in the middle of the day and like, I just want my lifestyle, I can go to my daughter's

thing.

You know, Sean, you know, she has something that you'll never have.

Oh no.

Oh no.

The E word.

Enough.

Yeah, she does.

She'll have enough.

I went through, I went with my mother-in-law, she's like, hey, Sam, can I drive you to the

airport?

I was like, why?

She goes, well, it's two hours to get there.

I need you to explain to me how online commerce works because I want to start a store.

This was two or three years ago.

I did the ride and I told her how to use the store and now she's got a business doing like

half a million a year.

And I was like, so why don't you scale this?

Why don't you do this?

Why don't you do this?

You could be like, I'm always like, you could be like the black Martha Stewart, like crush

this.

And she's like, but I like taking Tuesdays and Thursdays off.

And I was like, oh, right, well, if you made more than you could take Tuesdays and Thursdays

off, she's like, I could do that right now.

Yeah, it's the same exact thing that I'm like, but, but, but, and this stuff ends the point

on the rejection thing.

What I learned was when she called people and eight people in a row said, no, it was

like completely demoralizing to her.

And she started to question everything.

It's like, am I going after the wrong market?

Do I have the wrong product?

Am I have my price too high?

Am I this?

Am I that?

And I think it's really important to be able to back out numbers.

I've seen the same mistake on fundraising all the time.

So it sounds kind of silly when it's like, oh, my sister's a little preschool.

Oh, you know, she has 20% conversion rate.

Obviously that's good.

Like even if it was 10%, it would still be great.

Like it is still work.

Like, oh, that's so silly.

You know, she got demoralized by hearing, you know, eight nos in a row, you know, on

a Monday morning and, or not even hearing nos, just not hearing back from people.

I'm like, yeah, yeah.

But then I talked to founders and they're like, dude, raising money so hard, I need to

change this, change that.

Can you help me with my pitch?

I'm like, how many investors did you pitch to?

And they're like, we talked to like, you know, these four last week, I'm like, four.

And I'm like, you know, this is a numbers game.

This is a sales funnel.

And you need, you are selling your equity in your business in exchange for money.

And like, like what you're doing is you're getting highly emotional and you're taking

it highly personal that somebody doesn't want to fund your business.

And like in reality, yes, you should be learning from like how to pitch better.

And like you may, maybe, maybe in the end, you will strike out, but you don't even know

that yet.

You haven't hit enough people.

Dude, what a lot of people realize is that like one to 3% conversion rate is like normal,

which kind of means that like, maybe you'll go 0 for 29 and on the 30th one, you get a

one.

And that's like, boom, you know, you're now, you're one for three or you're, you're, you're

a, that's a 3% conversion rate.

You're good.

Yeah.

Or maybe on your 99th one, the 10th one, boom, 1% out of 100.

That's good.

That's why I always joke with Ben.

I'm like, Mormons are probably the best salespeople because convincing someone to join a religion

has like the lowest conversion rate ever.

And then you hear that like, you could sell a sales force and that has a 2% conversion

rate.

And you're like, piece of cake.

This is the easiest thing ever versus conversion of barrel and how many like, I don't know,

like, if that's actually what you did, where you tried to get people to like quit or lever

religion they were in and join your crew.

But how many people do you think who were like either atheists or in another team?

And they just said, yeah, cool, I'll join your thing.

How many people, what's the, what was your percentage rate?

So let's see.

I have...

Did you convert anyone?

Yeah.

I converted low 30s.

I'd have to look at 32 people on my mission.

So I was two years and, oh man, how many doors do I think I knocked on in that time?

I mean, it was...

A couple hundred?

A couple thousand?

It was hundreds of doors a day across to every, every single day for two years, right?

So...

You knocked on a hundred doors a day?

Easily, easily a hundred doors a day.

What country?

Hold on, we're doing some public math.

This deserves it.

Let's say...

Well, yeah, while you do it, let me ask you a question.

What country?

I'll pass it to Texas by speaking Spanish.

So if you did 150 doors a day, which you're saying easily is estimate.

Every single day, 365 days, two years, you knocked on 109,000 doors.

You did 109,000 and you did 32 at 109.

So that's 0.02% or 0.002%, something like that.

Something that's like, you know, fractions, fractions of a percent.

Dude, how about the fact that your friends were all going to these cool places in Africa

or South America and they sent you to El Paso?

Yeah, but I mean, you know, yeah, my brother went to Prague, my sister went to Moscow.

But we had, we had, what's the name, Austin from Lambda School, which is now Bloom Tech.

He was in Russia.

He was in Russia or something like that.

He said he converted zero or one.

He was like, oh, because we had asked him, what would be good?

And he's like, one would have been great for where I was.

That's the trade-off you make is that like, yeah, my brother and sister were in much

cooler places in Eastern Europe, but like Eastern Europe is hard, man, like really hard.

But I thought like, so I guess you're dealing with mostly Mexicans or some type of Hispanic?

Yeah.

They're the most hardcore Catholics there are.

They are, they're willing to bail.

Well, so what you gotta realize though, El Paso is like a very transitory.

A lot of people just got there from, from Mexico.

And so it's like, ah, well, I'm not really going to my church that I used to go to.

Maybe I'm looking for something new.

Like my life is already changing.

I'm open to, to something new.

Can you get?

You know, Facebook has that similar feature.

It's called the recently moved and those are great people to target.

It's true.

Dude, recently moved is an awesome group of people to target because they're changing

their life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

If you have like a weight loss thing, then can you give me the like speed version of

what is the pitch?

So you knock, you literally physically knock on a door.

I open up.

What happens?

Yeah.

So essentially what we're taught to do is.

No, just like do it.

In Spanish.

Yeah.

Do it to me.

Do it to me.

No oblong.

You gotta do it.

Okay.

Okay.

You guys gotta, you gotta bear with me.

It's been.

Okay.

So I'm, I'm 34.

It's been 13 years.

You do this a hundred thousand times.

You know, this like.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, you know, I'd say, hi, how are you?

My name is elder Wilson.

This is, I got my companion with me.

This is elder Lopez, uh, uh, how are you today?

You know, just whatever.

Hi.

Good.

I'm doing great.

Nice to meet you.

Uh, gosh.

I'm sorry.

Hold on.

Let me think about this.

What do you want?

Okay.

We'll give you a second.

We'll get into it.

I can get into it.

But like how would I first, first start?

That's what I'm trying to think of.

How many times did people tell you to f off?

I couldn't begin to tell you.

I mean, more often than not.

Do they train you or you just sort of figure out how to sell this?

You go to, uh, well, so you got three weeks of training if you're speaking English.

If you're learning a language, it depends on how difficult the language is.

I got six weeks of training, I think.

Do you carry mace?

No.

No weapon.

No, nothing.

Like a whistle?

You have a whistle?

No.

I think maybe the, the, the women, it might be up to their own discretion.

Maybe they do some stuff like that.

I have a friend who got stabbed.

He was in Honduras, uh, like a good buddy of mine got stabbed on his mission.

Um, I guess that guy just put him up and let go of weapon here.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think about, uh, how, uh, you know, um, you know, start off with just

like, um, you know, we're, we're missionaries from the church of Jesus Christ, a lot of

these saints.

And you, you start off by asking them questions like, uh, do you believe in God?

Are you someone who, who believes in God?

Yeah.

Oh, uh, you know, like, what, what do you believe about it?

Do you go to a church?

Oh yeah.

I go to a church.

Um, relating to them about their faith.

And then you say, well, you know, our message is that, uh, you know, you said you believe

in Jesus Christ.

We also believe in Jesus Christ from the church of Jesus Christ, a lot of these saints.

And what we believe is that the same Christ, the same church that Christ established when

he was on the earth 2000 years ago was lost for a period of time.

Um, and, and so no one had the complete truth, but that it's been restored again, that exact

same church.

And so that's why we're out here trying to, to talk to people.

If you knew that was true, that Christ's church was, was back on the earth, the same

one that he established.

Is that something that would be interesting to you?

Oh my gosh.

This is awesome.

It's just a sales call.

The wolf of, of you.

Yeah.

The wolf of religion.

Yeah.

The wolf of Provo.

This is great.

Yeah.

Dude, um, that's fascinating, man.

I feel like by the way, you know, to whoever runs the budget at the, uh, you know, the

Mormon church, me and Sam are available for consultation.

If you need some, uh, some, uh, you know, tips on how to brush up that, that opening

script.

I think maybe the, those first few lines, maybe we could give you some other hooks,

maybe some other, some other, uh, other ways in because also like, have you seen the trends

on tic-tac where it's like a baby or something like running away and they overlay, uh, audio

that says, excuse me, ma'am, can I talk, can I talk to you about the Lord Jesus, ma'am?

Have you been to church lately, ma'am?

Where are you going?

Can we, can we please talk?

It's like always like something funny running away.

Uh, you guys should pounce on that, man.

Would it be valid to do your mission through tic-tac?

Like if you were like, I'm going to make amazing tic-tac videos that go viral and help spread

our mission.

Like, could you do that?

Is that like, or it has to be door knocking?

Um, well, no.

So during COVID, a lot of, um, missions kind of went to social media, essentially.

Um, now you gotta realize that like your mission is like a, it's a rite of passage really.

Like for two years when I was 19 to 21 years old, I, uh, didn't have any contact with

my family except for I wrote them an email once a week and then I got to call home on

Christmas and Mother's Day.

That was it.

So like completely separated from my past life, um, like doing this extremely hard thing.

And so during COVID, um, missionaries did like start doing like social media missions

because they couldn't go to people's doors and talk to them.

But my impression was like, man, that sounds like it sucks.

Like you missed out on the rite of passage.

Like, I wouldn't want to do that for two years.

Like that doesn't sound fun.

There's exploring yourself, losing your virginity, going to parties, converting people.

The funny thing is like, uh, no, mission, baby, is definitely not a lie.

You're saying, you're saying, uh, man, that sounds like it sucks.

I wouldn't want to do that.

And like when you described like not seeing your family and like, you know, having to

like whatever you said, like, you know,

No, the thing is like, if you're going to wash your knees every day or whatever, like

you want it to be hard.

You want it to be like this, like life changing, difficult, crazy thing that you do with your

life, not like sitting behind a computer for two years.

That's the difference between Mormons and Gentiles.

Like, yeah, exactly.

There's a bunch of heathens.

Dude, I spent my whole life avoiding hardship.

Like, well, I would be in the military or like, you know, the Mormon church or whatever.

Like if I really wanted to lean into like difficulty, I spent my life running away from difficulty.

We are not the same.

Yeah.

We are not the same.

We are the same.

Yeah.

It is like a big cultural thing.

It's hard to explain how excited I was for this again in two years.

Oh my God.

Well, that's why you're, you know, are going to be probably more successful than both of

us.

And happier.

And happier.

Yeah.

And more emotionally healthy.

I have a ton of respect for anybody who does that.

I also have even more respect for whoever was able to convince people to do this.

I think that is like one of the greatest, you know, like, greatest like organizations

that that's been created like with such a strong pull that its members would take such

a like large, you know, movement and like to support it like.

And they're obligated to convince 10 other people to join.

Yeah.

I'm trying to get somebody to give me their email address for like two seconds and I'm

like, oh, this is so hard.

They have to give you 10% of their income.

They got to give you 10% of their income and go and recruit about 50 more people.

It's the greatest thing ever.

Two years of your life, 10% of your income, all of your social capital and probably something

else that I don't even know about.

And we can't pay taxes either because we're giving it all the way.

It's the sweetest deal in the world.

It is.

It is a great deal.

10% is cheap on the, I want you to get in return.

Wow.

Amazing.

And you have to believe it's the greatest deal in the world.

I will say that even better, wow, I even enjoyed this man.

I've never seen that.

I'm convinced now you're like, do you guys want more?

Let me, I'll tell you this.

I do.

I paid 10% of all of my income.

I donate a ton of time.

It sucks all my time.

I donated two, I gave two years.

I paid for two years to be on this mission.

Okay.

I get, I give up a lot.

At the same time, like if I move anywhere, I show up at a new place.

I call the local congregation, a bunch of dudes come help me unpack my boxes and move

in.

I go to church.

I immediately have like a dozen friends.

People invite me over to dinner for the first few nights that I'm in this new city.

If I need, if I need a job, there's someone dedicated in the congregation who will help

me find a job.

If I'm ever like down on my luck and I need food, the church of Jesus Christ, a lot of

the saints will provide me with food, make sure I don't go hungry.

You just described being a famous podcaster also, by the way, Sam, just Sam went on a

road trip last year and was just like, Hey, who wants me to drive their car?

And people are like, here's the keys.

He's like, Hey, anybody here's wife want to cook me dinner and give me a massage?

People are like, honey, honey, Sam's in town.

Maybe I, maybe I am more than that for all.

Exactly.

I mean, I look like it.

Maybe I am Mormon.

Maybe I should do a DNA test jokes aside.

And also I don't have the wrath of God if he does exist against me.

So, you know, I think it is pretty awesome.

And also like, I think people study like what makes people happy in the end.

I think the biggest, it's always religion.

That's always part of it.

Well, I think the biggest one is, is like quality time spent with people you care about,

which like is a combination of like family, friends, communities, the spiritual community,

all that stuff.

So what you're describing is basically like meaningful relationships with people who like,

you know, have like kind of an unconditional support of each other, which is great.

And something that everybody would sign up for, you know, depending on the, you know,

what with the situation, the cost.

I do think believer, believers in a religion live longer than non believers.

And I also think they're happier.

I was curious about that.

Sean, that was a succinct pitch for, for why it's a great thing.

We need to send you on a mission.

Elder Corey.

I would love to go knock on a, I would love to go knock on a hundred door.

I really want to just do door to the sales just to see if I could do it and how it would

work.

Dude, the pitch needs to be, excuse me, man.

Do you know what the average life expectancy of an atheist is?

Now what if I were to tell you that Mormon believers, it's this, would that interest you?

Right.

We, I don't know if, if, if the church would go for this, but if they would, we should

do a YouTube series where like we send Sean with a couple missionaries, like it hooked

you up with in the Bay Area and just go knock on like a hundred or 200 doors with them and

like see what is like, offer your thoughts and then like give them some observations

and tips from.

Well, I would like to just go sell my own fake religion and just see where we can do

that.

Like how well I could do because, you know, I need, I need that kind of fresh slate.

I'm more of an entrepreneur, not an entrepreneur, if you know what I mean, so I got to create

something from scratch here and keep all those tax benefits to myself as well.

I've actually considered this many times about creating my own religion because I do have

my own philosophy, my own belief system.

I do share it with others and, and it's a life operating system.

And I don't like taxes.

And I think that it's fantastic to own a religion or to own a church of a religion.

And you're Indian, so you can be a guru, like people expect that, you know?

I know.

I mean, when I had the longer hair, I was much better suited for this.

But you know, if I like, Sam, what would be your opening line?

Like what, where, what direction would you take it?

Like he was like, hi, I'm banned.

Do you have a, do you have a moment to talk about?

I would have said exactly.

I would say, excuse me, ma'am.

I know this is so strange, but I got to ask you a quick question.

What would you say if I told you that the average life expectancy of an atheist was 72, but

the average life expectancy of a Mormon is 84?

Would you want to know why?

And I think they would say, yeah, I guess.

Well, as you see, it's, do you want to see your grandkids someday?

Yeah.

Well, because when you believe in a religion, it means this, this, this and this.

And it just so happens, our religion, but I would sell them on the idea of wanting to-

Well, that's why it was good that he started with, do you believe in God?

Right?

Because- Yeah.

Get the losers out of the way.

Well, no, well, you got to separate.

Are you talking to an atheist?

Are you talking to somebody of another religion?

Because you can't, you got to know which way you're going there.

The other way is, you know, you do the thing where you're like, you know, hey, you know,

I was just at your neighbor's house and I thought I would pop by, just so you're like-

I hate when I get there.

I'm in the neighborhood.

I would say which neighborhood?

Yeah, I was at the Johnson's across the street and, you know, I thought I'd stop by because

blah, blah, blah, or like, you know, I really just wanted to chat with you for a minute.

Do you, do you believe in God?

Or I, you know, maybe go with something that's like, I was just wondering, have you seen this

video?

Hold up my phone of that tic-tac of the baby, be chased away, you know, like, I'm just trying

to like, you know, stun them into not, not like automatically rejecting me, right?

Like, it's like, how do I get some curiosity, which would be something like, you know, I'm

going around the neighborhood, I'm just asking, you know, do you go to church regularly?

And they're like, oh yeah, awesome.

Would you say you believe in God?

Yeah, I do believe in God.

You know, where did that start?

Was that from your parents?

Yeah, my mom was super religious.

My mom too.

And then I was like, you know, trying to do something like that.

It's off the top of my head how I would try to like, you know, build rapport quickly as

I get them to stick to podcasts, give me 100,000 reps at this, I think I'd be pretty good

by the end.

Yeah, better than Ben and having to think about it.

Yeah.

Ben's response made me think he might, he might not have gone on that mission.

After all.

Hey, Sean, at 32 converts, you've got zero so far.

So you got to get on my level.

I just don't know how you forgot the script you said a thousand, a hundred thousand times.

It sounds a little suspicious.

It's been a decades, a long time, Sean, decades, a long time.

All right, I got to go bathroom.

I'll talk to you all a little bit.

Yeah.

I feel like I can rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like the days off on the road.

Let's travel never looking back.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.