Morbid: Episode 495: The Horrific Murder of Jack Tupper- Part 2

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Alaina.

And this is morbid.

It's morbid.

It's morbid.

How are you?

I'm doing great.

I'm feeling better, actually.

I love that.

I'm feeling better, too, except I do miss my sultry voice.

We all miss our sultry voices.

I wish I could just recreate it when I wasn't sick, like, but there's no, you see, like,

it doesn't work.

I was, I was going to try, but oh, I figured, but it, it doesn't hit the same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Doesn't want my teeth.

Can I have a second?

You have keen one in your teeth?

No, I'm done.

Look at that.

Cute.

Well, after snack.

I'm just saving that for later.

A little quinoa.

A little quinoa.

A little quinoa.

Not any business.

You got any recommendations for us today?

Oh, man, put me on the spot.

Well, you, I mean, you're a recommendation gorely.

I know.

I really am a recommendation gorely.

None.

I don't know if I have any right now.

Wow.

That's upsetting.

Um, oh, there's somebody on Tik Tok.

I have a Tik Tok.

I knew if I said it, it would start.

I was just thinking, okay, there, there's, um, someone.

I follow on Tik Tok, uh, she talks about paranormal shit, um, some, some true crime

shit.

She talks about all kinds of spooky shit.

She's very smart.

She's very well spoken.

She's fun to listen to.

She's beautiful.

She's just cool.

Her name's Cam.

She sounds like she's everything.

And I think her name on Tik Tok is, um, and let me double check it.

I think it's swamp witch.

That's pretty cool.

Nick, I'll give you a vamp moment.

Yep.

Swamp underscore witch underscore.

Hell yeah.

And she's great.

And I just need to give her a shout out because I think I like, like almost all of her videos

that come through my feet.

I'm just automatically like like, cause I know I will like a bunch of spooky shit.

Yeah.

She's just, and she's really smart.

And she lives in a haunted house.

So you get to see lots of that stuff.

And she, does she like tell stories from her home?

She does.

She gives stories.

She gives like, and she tells others like folklore and shit.

She's just really like fun to listen to.

So Cam swamp witch, hell yeah.

Go get it.

See what I'm doing tonight.

Go flood swamp witches, tick tock, make her get the numbers.

No pun intended.

Cause you know what she puts in the work?

Flood the swamp.

So fuck yeah swamp witch Cam.

Swamp witch forever.

I knew I could pull one out.

That's actually one that's been sitting in my back pocket for a while and I keep forgetting

to plug her.

So start a list.

I'm actually glad you brought that up cause I really wanted to plug her.

See here you said you were like, you're putting me on the spot and I was like, it's for a

reason.

That's what it's for.

This season has a reason.

Turn, turn, turn.

I think I said that the wrong way around, but here we are.

It doesn't matter.

It sounded great.

Thanks.

All right.

Well, we're in a part two right now.

So in part one, we were talking about the very, very tragic murder of Jack Tupper.

It was like real brutal and we're going to get a little more into it in this part.

It's so sad.

This is a really sad case so far.

It is because Buddy is just like was born an asshole.

Yeah.

And I just felt really bad for Melanie and I feel really bad for Jack.

And his family, like Jack had a lot of promise that just got completely robbed from him.

So when we left off in part one, Buddy had been harassing Melanie like crazy and then

she came home one day after and the saddest thing about this too is that they were just

about to get the fuck out of it.

Yeah.

They were making moves to get away from him.

She had signed a new lease that morning, Melanie, for her and Jack to move out.

And while she was gone signing the new lease, Buddy went and did whatever he did.

But at the end of part one, the universe caught up to him because he was sitting directly

in front of a cop and a Bolo alert basically had gone out being like, yeah, I'll check

out this license plate.

And the guy was like, oh, you mean the one right in front of me?

You mean this asshole right here?

You mean this yellow Cadillac asshole guy?

So he got arrested.

And when Buddy was arrested, he was in the company of a man named Salvatore Giamo, which

checks.

He told the officer that he was just a hitchhiker and he had nothing to do with the crime.

But it was later learned that Salvatore was on Buddy's payroll and he worked as a general

contractor on one of his buildings.

So they spotted the lie there.

Ah, there it is.

There it is.

The prosecutor would later determine that there was a third man involved as well and

other Salvatore.

This one Prenito, I believe is how you say the last name.

And he had already been dropped off when Buddy got pulled over.

Ah.

If he had been pulled over a little earlier, they would have caught all three of them right

there.

That would have been the jackpot.

That would have been.

But still, it was a jackpot.

Yeah.

So at the precinct, Buddy told detectives that his employee, referring to Giamo, he

said he had come to his apartment earlier that day and suggested that Buddy buy his

car from him.

So they took the car out for a test drive.

And according to Buddy, the car drove so nicely that he just kept on driving.

And that's how they caught him on the bridge that afternoon.

Absolutely.

He was just out driving, just a joy ride, you know?

It just felt so good that I kept on driving.

That's my alibi.

I was just driving.

Just driving things.

He was not willing to say more than that and he immediately demanded a lawyer.

So he was placed in a holding cell while the police started looking into this story.

Now, while he sat in a cell at the 43rd precinct, detectives went out to the apartment building

in Queens to inform Melanie that Jack had died and had been murdered.

That's awful.

She was still actually with Jack's friend that she had called over earlier that day.

And she explained to the officer that got there what they had discovered in Buddy's

apartment earlier that day.

And she actually pointed out a spot of what they believed was blood in the hallway outside

of the apartment.

Because if you remember in part one, he had cleaned everything up, including the hallway,

but you missed a spot.

Yeah.

You never cleaned it all up.

No, never.

It's just like so sad to think that while she was off doing this, that's what was going

on.

So the following week Buddy and Salvatore were charged with second degree murder and

both were denied bail.

And this is a Salvatore pernito actually.

So Jack's autopsy was conducted the next afternoon, but because his body had been so damaged

in the fire and through everything that had occurred beforehand, the assistant medical

examiner had a really difficult time actually coming up with what the cause of death was.

So officially his cause of death was attributed to, and this is a quote, two circumcised round

markedly depressed fractures of the skull, the largest diameter of which is one and a

half.

And the greatest depth of this depression is half an inch, I'm assuming.

Now those two wounds, which the medical examiner believed to have been from hammer blows.

I was just going to say that sounds like a hammer.

They caused obviously massive brain damage.

So they believed those were most likely the primary cause of death.

Yeah, it's to think what they did to him like I can't imagine.

And you probably just assumed that these three guys just banged on his apartment door and

dragged him out.

Because remember, his shoes were still in the apartment, all of his stuff.

In addition to the brain trauma, there was a myriad of other wounds, several of which

would have also been fatal.

According to the examiner's report, quote, there are multiple lacerations and stab wounds

Oh my God.

Mainly over the left side of the face and the left side of the head.

There are approximately 15 such wounds.

Holy shit.

And then there were additional stab wounds on the torso as well, one of which pierced

Jack's liver.

And then in addition to that, there were multiple gunshot wounds to his upper body and his lower

torso.

And finally, there was the damage caused by the fire, which occurred after Jack had died.

But this was complete overkill.

So they bludgeoned, stabbed, shot and burned him.

Yep.

Oh my God.

And like sliced at his face, like his face was found with a bunch of sliced marks all

over it.

They just, they demolished his body.

Wow.

It's horrible.

That's terrifying.

So in the press conference held just a few days later, investigators identified the victim

and the killer while adding that other people were being sought in connection with the murder.

A spokesperson told reporters, quote, we don't know exactly where he was killed, but it appears

he was dragged from his own apartment and brought to Jacobson's penthouse.

Now they couldn't confirm that Jack had been killed in Buddy's apartment, but investigators

did say that they pulled a slug from a wall in Buddy's apartment that was a match for

those taken out of Jack Tupper's body.

My God.

So I don't really know why they couldn't for sure say that he had been killed there.

Because maybe they think that, because my thoughts were there was blood on the outside

of the apartment.

Maybe they think that they hammered him in his apartment and then dragged him into that

apartment.

He could have already been dead at that point.

And kept going, yeah.

So when they shot him, he could have already been dead.

It's so scary to think about.

Now, as far as anybody could tell, the case against Buddy's seemed airtight.

He had means, he had motive, he had the opportunity to kill Jack.

He was known to have been obsessed with Melanie in the weeks leading up to the murder.

His apartment was literally riddled with bullet holes.

And witnesses, again, as we know, had identified him and his car as having been at the dump

site in the Bronx.

So a little over a week after Buddy's arrest, a grand jury convened to hear the evidence

in the case, as well as testimony from multiple witnesses.

And everybody was most interested to hear what Melanie had to say, of course, because

she's the closest link here.

And she testified for over two hours.

She gave all the details of her relationship with Buddy, his possessive nature, the desperate

threats that he'd been making in the weeks just before Jack's murder.

And based on the evidence and testimony presented to the grand jury, Buddy was indicted for

the murder of Tupper, and he continued to be held without bail.

So by September, Buddy had actually gotten himself a new lawyer, Otto Fusco, who assured

his client that he was going to get him out of jail.

He wanted to get Buddy out on bail.

Awesome.

Even though requests for bail had already been denied six times since Buddy's arrest.

My God.

Now, later that month, Fusco took Buddy's case to the state Supreme Court, and he told

Justice Louis Sioffi, I believe I say it.

He had a number of alternative suspects, all of whom had reason to kill Jack Tupper and

frame Buddy.

Huh.

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But for one reason or another, the justice believed Fusco's defense and noted that if

there were indeed other suspects, he said, I cannot deny this man bail.

So he set buddy's bail at $200,000.

And remember, buddy has a lot of money, but I guess he wasn't pulling in that much at

this time because he claimed that he was unable to pay that amount.

So he remained in jail.

So in the weeks that followed, Fusco repeatedly argued with the district attorney in a pellet

court and was eventually able to successfully convince them to reduce the bail to $100,000.

That's insane.

So they cut it in half and buddy easily paid that with a cashier's check and ended up being

freed on October 18th, 1978.

Yeah, that must feel great.

Like when they're almost certain that he killed this man like 10 times over, literally bullet

holes in his apartment.

And they're like, yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Let's get you out of jail.

I don't walk around.

So now that he was free on bail, he wasted literally no time trying to go and see Melanie.

And when she made it very clear through the district attorney that she did not want to

see him or speak to him, buddy allegedly paid Terry McCart, one of the models for my fair

lady, $1,000 to convince Melanie to see him.

What?

But this made its way back to the courts and it was enough to convince the prosecutor to

bring Buddy back in front of the Supreme Court.

And they argued that Melanie still felt like she was in danger, obviously.

Yeah.

And Buddy's bail should be revoked.

Now, Otto Fusco vehemently denied any risk to Melanie's safety.

He told the court, Buddy only wanted to meet with her to quote, straighten out the time

element of the case.

Oh, yeah.

And it's also like, and he said he meant her no harm.

But it's like, so he wants to go over timelines with her.

Like, I feel like that's a problem.

Yeah.

It's like, OK, so we're all stupid.

That's what that's what we're going with that everybody around him is stupid.

Like, I don't understand why that, why they want to get their story straight.

Yeah.

Like, I think you're just arguing against yourself.

Yeah, pretty much.

So after hearing from both sides, just did Howard Justice, Howard Goldfuss ordered

Jacobson, quote, not to contact Miss Kane or have others do so.

And if he did again, his bail would be revoked.

Oh, OK.

So they slapped him on his wrist and they said, don't do that again.

Don't do that, little buddy.

Stop doing that.

Do it.

Now, even though the court was abundantly clear that his bail would be revoked, if

he reached out to Melanie again, Buddy just couldn't help himself.

Oh, my God.

But this time he was more strategic, of course, because he didn't want to get caught.

So he started sending her anonymous letters.

Instead of implicating himself directly, which is so much more chilling, so much

more chilling, and these letters are weird in a letter dated November 20th, 1978.

He wrote, no longer can you use the excuse, excuse me, no longer can you use the

excuse, the criminal justice system will work.

That's what he wrote her.

What?

The letter basically implied that the district attorney had been trying to keep Melanie

away from Buddy, quote, and he wrote, because a combination of your facts and

Jacobson's would destroy his case.

And he said it would be wise to stop letting yourself be controlled by others.

Wow.

So it was very clear that it was from Buddy, but he's writing it in like a, in

another to try to be ominous in another tone.

Exactly.

Now, another later dated December 6th, simply said, Jacobson has harmed no one

in his whole life, which, uh, excuse me, please watch out for the giant

lightning strike that is about to come from the sky and smite you.

Truly.

He said, even if his love and affection for you may have dwindled this past year.

Oh, excuse me, she left you.

I'm sorry.

What?

Let the record stay.

Yeah.

He always took care of you and looked out for you.

I know he only wants the truth and the trial, which will be many months from now,

maybe too late.

What?

Like, why would it be too late?

The fuck does that mean?

If you're having a trial, isn't the truth going to come out one way or the other

Buddy?

Jesus.

He's so creepy.

I hate him.

And just that, even if his love and affection may have dwindled, dwindled for

you, like, shut the fuck up.

Like, weren't you just screaming in a hallway that you were going to get her

pregnant so fast she would have six children?

Yeah.

But your affection said dwindled.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't know if we have the same definition of dwindled there.

I'm sure about that.

You sure about that?

I'm sure about that.

So free on bail until the start of the trial, Buddy reveled in the notoriety.

He made sure to keep up appearances.

He was not letting anybody know about the financial toll that the charges were

taking on him, and he never relented in his campaign to contact Melanie.

But he did start dating a new young model and made sure that he was seen out

with her in all the same places that he used to take Melanie.

That's gross.

Which he's clearly thinking that this is going to make her jealous, which I don't

know in what world you would be jealous that a girl is dating a man who murdered

the man that you loved.

Yeah.

And it's like, who's this girl?

Yeah, that's another story.

Get it together.

And she just wanted a modeling job.

Yeah.

Wild.

So Buddy carried on as the playboy that he was, and he hoped everybody still

believed he was, but all the while, Melanie and the Tupper family were starting

to wonder whether their faith in the justice system was misplaced.

They were getting worried that this wasn't going to go in here.

It doesn't seem like it is.

Especially because he's out on bail.

Yeah, he's just walking around.

They probably never expected that.

No.

I mean, it's literally cut and dry here.

You look at that crime scene.

The witnesses, you look at everything involved.

It's like, how are you this stupid?

How?

How?

It's insane.

So when Buddy was first arrested, the case, to them, it appeared like we were

just saying, so straightforward, and the evidence seemed so irrefutable that a

conviction seemed inevitable.

Yeah.

But just a few months later, his ability to kind of talk his way out of apparently

anything, and now the endless stream of rumors surrounding the case had them

worried that they might not get their conviction for him.

Oh, man.

Kevin Tupper told reporters, I thoroughly believe the police and DA's office can

handle people who shoot each other out on the street.

But I have a feeling that when they come up against a real attorney and then his

voice trailed off before he could finish his thought, he was worried.

Yeah.

Obviously.

And I don't blame him.

I would do too.

And the trial was still almost a year away.

And that's the crazy thing that they gave him bail, knowing that he had a year to

just walk around.

Yeah, and just do whatever he wanted.

I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me.

No, it really doesn't.

But Melanie and the Tupper's reasonably believed there was still a chance that Buddy

could talk his way out of these charges.

But little did they know the case would take a turn, but no one really saw it coming.

So in the 14 months that passed between Buddy's arrest and the scheduled start of

the trial, the New York City press could not resist following every lead and every

rumor related to the deadly love triangle.

There was talk of, among so many different things, a drug deal gone wrong, mafia

involvement, and they also were starting to say that my fair lady was being used

as what they referred to as a prostitution ring.

Now, which also, like, you're not supposed to say it like that.

That's rude.

That's rude.

That's rude.

Now, by the time the trial began in October, 1979, State Supreme Court Justice

William Capelman or Cappelman, excuse me, imposed a gag order on everybody involved.

Oh, damn.

Noting that the extensive and often sensational media coverage might preclude a

fair trial for Howard Jacobson.

Remember Buddy's real name is Howard.

Yeah.

So the media or excuse me, the order covered only those who were directly

involved in the trial.

So the media was still free to continue reporting on the case, but they would

have to do it without any commentary from the participants in the trial.

Okay.

Now, Buddy's lawyers, Jack Ebserhoff and Ben Epstein, or Epstein, immediately

objected and they cited their client's First Amendment rights and they questioned

the timing of the order.

But Capelman overruled them and the order was to stand.

Now, he spoke in generic terms regarding his motive for the gag order.

He said it was the extent of the media coverage, but it's also very possible

that one of the driving factors for the order was the number of interviews and

impromptu press conferences that Buddy and his attorneys were holding in the

months leading up to trial because they were starting to try to spin a different

yarn, just a week or so before the order was put in place, Buddy's two attorneys

there reported that Jack Tupper was part of a major cocaine conspiracy and said,

quote, he was killed by someone other than the defendant.

Oh, shit.

So now they're starting to put.

So now we're trying to smear Jack.

Exactly.

And put doubt in potential jury members.

Of course.

So by late October, the trial had already been delayed several times because of

different pre-trial hearings, all this bullshit that was going on.

And then it again ground to a halt when Buddy's attorneys claimed that the DA's

office was withholding evidence that would have cleared Buddy of any wrongdoing.

Oh, according to Ben Epstein, the DA's office had evidence that showed two known

drug dealers were likely responsible for Tupper's death.

But the two men he suspected, quote, had gone missing since the murder.

Huh.

So he's like, I have these two guys.

The only problem is I don't have them.

That's not shady or fishy at all.

No, not at all.

No, that seems very legit.

It's like, are you just looking for two random drug dealers to implicate in this

right now and you just don't have them quite yet?

Perhaps.

So Justice Cappelman reviewed the material and he overruled the motion.

And he said that Buddy's attorney said would clear him.

He found that the evidence was insufficient to warrant any kind of acquittal.

Yeah, of course.

Obviously, he was like, why would you even waste my time with this?

So Justice Cappelman reviewed the material and overruled the motion that Buddy's

lawyer said would clear him because that evidence was, I wish there was a better

word than an insufficient because I feel like it was even so much more than that.

Yeah, that's a that's a vast understatement.

Yeah, but it was insufficient to warrant an acquittal.

So additional delays followed.

And that was mostly because the defense was challenging literally every piece of

evidence involved that they tried to enter ever.

I love that.

Yeah, it's fantastic, annoying at all.

No.

And there were other hiccups too.

There were two potential witnesses that received anonymous death threats in the

mail.

Jesus.

I wonder who those came from.

Huh?

Who do you think?

They're, no, they're anonymous, Ash.

They're anonymous.

Much like anonymous.

The letters that Buddy wrote to Melanie.

Yeah, totally anonymous.

Yeah.

And then also one of the prosecutor's sisters actually was found murdered

behind a Brooklyn bar.

Oh my God.

However, the murder was determined to be unrelated to the Jacobson case.

Oh, New York was wild and wow.

But when I read that, I was like, he murdered the prosecutor's sister, but

he didn't.

That's a lot.

Yeah, I was unrelated.

Now, after an unusual number of delays and pre-trial hearings, Buddy Jacobson's

trial finally got underway on January 30th, 1980, with Bill Hrabbsky

prosecuting on behalf of the state.

And from his position at the podium, he presented the jury with a simple story of

jealousy and of course the love triangle, excuse me, with a very tragic ending.

In which Buddy Jacobson and Salvatore Pernitto murdered Jack Tupper and

disposed of his body in that vacant lot.

Now, most importantly, this wasn't just the same old, or this wasn't just some

story, the prosecution had more than enough evidence collected from Buddy's

apartment that directly connected him to the case.

This evidence included Buddy's clothes, his eyeglasses and pieces of his carpet,

all of which had Jack's blood on them.

Oh my God.

His glasses.

Like that for me is terrifying.

I was just going to say that is just something about that.

That's on another level.

Because that indicates a very close proximity.

Oh, that's really terrible.

And all just because Melanie didn't love him anymore.

And just because Jack was a good guy that was treating her nicely.

Exactly.

And giving her the life that she wanted.

I just wish that they had been able to move out of that apartment before any of

this happened.

It's so, it's gut-wrenching.

So when the time came for the defense to present their argument, Jack Eversoff took

the podium with a story that no one expected.

He told the jury, Howard Jacobson is the product of a frame compounded by the

inefficiency and incompetence by the authorities.

So he was trying to say that Buddy was framed for this.

No.

Which like, I don't quite understand.

It's like, please explain why.

They got his eyeglasses, his clothes and his pieces of his carpet.

Yeah, that's a, that's a very intense frame job.

Like somebody went into his home, cut out pieces of his carpet, got Jack

Tupper's blood on them and then put them back.

Yeah, I guess so.

I don't see that happen.

Yeah, you don't?

What?

No.

That doesn't seem legit to you?

No.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Seems legit to me.

The attorney claimed that they would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was

Melanie Kane, the girl of a thousand faces who had masterminded the entire operation.

Wow.

Like, listen, I love Mel.

I don't think she masterminded this entire operation and got that much blood

evidence on all of Buddy's things.

That's also like wild when they just turn around and are like,

try to ruin that girl's life.

Like it's just like, whoa.

All right.

They used her like title against her.

They called her the girl of a thousand faces because she's a model.

She's a model and she'd been called that before.

So stupid.

Now, according to Jack Ebser, Ebser off.

I can never say his last name.

The murder wasn't, he said, the result of a love triangle, but a quadrangle.

This man is going geometry.

No, I was just going to say, do not bring geometry into this.

It's too late.

He did.

He said it included cocaine dealer Joseph Marguerite and the defense alleged

that Jack Tupper was murdered over a bad cocaine deal with Marguerite.

And Melanie had attempted to frame Buddy for it.

Yeah.

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the man that she loved?

Yeah, why would she do that?

That, no, no, because they're essentially trying to make it seem like

her love for Jack was not not real what we think it was.

Not real at all.

No, I don't believe that.

It's like, if that was the case, Buddy's a well connected guy.

Yeah, why would she?

Why wouldn't she just turn to him?

Exactly.

And have him like fuck over Joseph Marguerite.

And why would she get rid of Jack?

She, I mean, that's when she just like be with Buddy if she wanted to be with Buddy.

Yes.

That seems to be like the real question here is like,

wouldn't she just be with you if she wanted to be with you?

I think she didn't.

She made it very clear.

I think the men in this case didn't quite understand that.

They just can't handle it because their whole thing was that like he left Melanie.

I know that's like how it sounds.

No, my friends.

But they said when the murder was committed in Marguerite's apartment,

which apparently had Buddy's carpet in it, I guess, and his eyeglasses and his

clothing, absolutely, of course, they said, Buddy wasn't even there.

And the defense alleged he was just a 48 year old fool who was in love

with the woman of a thousand faces.

They really, they really loved that.

They were like, it's really good that somebody named her that because we can use that now.

It's like, yeah, he may very well be in like whatever you're calling love with her.

But again, how did his shit get covered in Jack's blood?

No, it's really not making sense.

Nope.

Make it make sense, my friends.

Make it make sense.

It's literally that guy just like, you sure about that?

Sure about that.

So despite their best efforts to convince the jury that Buddy was not

connected to the murder, the evidence, circumstantial and physical just wasn't on their side.

The math ain't math.

The math is not math thing.

Throughout her testimony and the testimony of others, Melanie never came across as bitter.

She never came across as the vindictive lover that they claimed was Framing Buddy.

In fact, when they attempted to sway the jury by showing several what they called exotic

photos of Melanie, exotic, she had to interject

to point out that at least one of the photos wasn't even of her.

It was of an entirely different woman.

Are you kidding me?

She had to stand up in court and say, yeah, I don't know what this has to do with anything,

but also that's not me.

Like, wow, that gal's real pretty.

That's not me.

And also, why are we showing those photos in the first place?

What does that have to do with anything?

But just the fact that she had to say, yeah, that's not me.

That how stupid can you look?

Like, seriously?

You know, in jury duty, when the guys, when you're like, how is anybody believing

that this is a real lawyer?

Here you go.

Here we go.

Here it is.

Now, the prosecution, on the other hand, very different story over there.

They had a mountain of evidence to support their claim that Buddy was exceedingly

jealous and possessive from the moment that he began dating Melanie and all

throughout and up to the start of the trial.

And then, of course, like I've said about 55 million times, there was the considerable

blood evidence that placed Buddy at the scene of the murder.

Oh, that.

And again, the eyewitness testimony from people who saw him at the dump site.

Where was Joseph Marguerite at the dump site?

Yeah, exactly.

And they also wrote down his fucking license plate number.

That's the thing.

They had the forethought to write down that license plate number, which yesterday

when you said that, I was like, hell, yeah, those people.

Because honestly, a lot of us wouldn't be able to remember it or write it down,

which you should if you can, but it's hard.

Yeah.

And sometimes you can't see it.

It things happen quickly.

It's like, you don't think about it.

So thank goodness those people did.

And it's like, now you're like, this is just wild.

Like so ridiculous.

Guys, you just now you should start thinking about minimizing damage

instead of trying to pretend that he didn't do it.

Like go for an insanity.

Yeah.

Like you should be really looking at just trying to like mitigate everything

because there's no way that you can say he didn't do it.

No, you have to figure out like why he like some reason why you're looking foolish here.

You are.

And that's the thing.

If this were intended as a frame job, it was a very complicated one orchestrated

by some kind of criminal mastermind, not a very, very depressed and sad fashion model.

Exactly.

That's just the truth.

No.

So after 10 weeks of evidence and testimony, the jury retired for deliberation on April 9th, 1980.

And after eight hours, they returned a guilty.

A guilty.

A guilty.

They returned a verdict of not guilty in the case against Salvatore Pernitto.

And as for Buddy Jacobson, the jury foreman told the judge that they believed

they were unable to reach a verdict.

What?

I don't really understand that myself.

I'm sorry, jury.

Can we talk real quick?

That's basically what the judge said.

OK, good.

He was like, can you guys try again?

Yeah, he's like, you know what?

Give that one another shot.

Give it the old college try.

There was one person that was like, I have a reasonable doubt.

You know what?

One person I just want to talk.

What's what's going on?

Yeah, what's happening?

But they tried again.

And on April 12th, the jury found Buddy Jacobson guilty.

Thank you.

Of the second degree murder of Jack Tupper.

So after he was convicted, he was returned to a cell at the Brooklyn House of Corrections

to await his sentencing, which was scheduled for early June.

On the afternoon of May 31st, he had a visitor.

There's somebody coming to say, hey, Buddy, what's up visitor?

Yeah, they checked in under the name Michael Schwartz, and they said they were an attorney.

And these two men sat and talked for a short time.

And when the guards came back to collect Buddy,

he was nowhere to be found.

Oh, oops, we lost that inmate.

They lost that inmate who had just been convicted of second degree murder.

Wow.

Why is everyone really bad at their jobs right now?

No, no, no.

What was happening here?

Like it was the 80s.

Was it even the 80s yet?

I don't even think it was.

No, it wasn't even.

It was the height of the 80s.

Guys, get it together.

Could not find him.

Get it together.

As far as they could tell the officials at the jail,

they, the two of those men sat together, Buddy being one of them.

Buddy excused himself to go to the bathroom around 4 30

and simply never returned.

Man, imagine if that's how you can get out of jail.

You're just like to go to the bathroom.

Excuse me, I just have to go to the bathroom real quick.

And then you just never returned.

You just walk out.

Bye. Bye, everybody.

In his statement to the press,

assistant commissioner for the Department of Corrections,

Edward Hershey, told the press,

Jacobson walked out of the visitors area using subterfuge and stealth.

And he did not leave the room wearing the same clothing he walked in with.

OK, but you're still saying to me that he walked out of the visitors room

at a prison using stealth.

It's like, no, you began that sentence by saying he walked out of the visitors room,

which in and of itself kind of takes away all the stealth of it.

He just walked out of the visitors room.

But it wasn't just stealth.

It was also subterfuge as well.

Like you're huge.

He just walked out.

He just admitted that.

He said, man, he said, no, you know what, not for me.

Prison is not my bag.

So I'm the way he murdered Jack Tupper.

And he just walks out of that.

He's a vicious killer.

Yeah, vicious killer and a stalker.

And like, like he's a terrible person.

Truly. And they're just like, yeah, we just let him walk out of the visitor center.

And then later you're like, there was a lot of subterfuge and stealth involved.

And it's like, I don't know about that.

You sure about that?

I don't know about that.

You sure about that?

I am not sure.

A spokesperson said of the man claiming to be Michael Schwartz, the attorney,

he's not giving us any information at this point.

We don't even know if that's his real name or whether he's an attorney.

Wow.

If I was at this fucking press conference, I'd be like, am I safe to live in this place?

I literally moved several towns over.

I would be like, what the fuck is going on?

Like, we don't know anything.

Like, shit, we didn't, you know, it was the guy he said, hey, and we said,

you seem legit and we just let him in.

Like, they're like, you know what they're saying?

They're like, the vibes were right.

Yeah. So we just foregone.

We just forewent any kind of standard procedure or safety protocol

because the vibes were vibing when he came in.

They did a Jada as they didn't even do a Jada essence hall and say, look over there.

Yeah, they were just like, yeah, we don't even know what his deal is.

Yeah, no, we don't even know.

They eventually found out what his deal was.

Oh, good.

The man claiming to be Michael Schwartz, attorney, was in fact, Anthony DeRosa,

a sometime resident of West Dover, Vermont.

And he was also the man who several years earlier

had bought Buddy's stake in the ski lodge.

Oh, shit.

The ski lodge comes back.

Yeah, isn't that funny?

The ski lodge makes a cameo.

I bet you thought that the ski lodge was gone forever.

I didn't. I was ready for her to come back.

Here she is.

So we didn't see the last of her.

Vermont.

Vermont, I'm coming.

Vermont, look, where you been?

So DeRosa had been one of the potential witnesses

interviewed by the defense before Buddy's trial, actually.

But both attorneys found that he seriously lacked credibility

and they decided not to call him.

The defense who sucked ass was like, this guy sucks more ass.

This guy sucks the most ass.

We cannot have him.

Well, he lacks credibility.

He lacks credibility.

We should put a little clip there.

We should.

So it turned out that after initially buying into the ski lodge,

DeRosa quickly ran out of funds and found himself.

I really love this expression.

Quote, deeply in hawk, deeply in hawk, aka debt to Buddy.

But it's a much better way to say, I'm in hawk.

Oh, man, I'm in hawk.

I'm in hawk to Buddy.

Deep in hawk.

Oh, I am going to be ever in your hawk.

Wow. I like that.

I like it. It's H-O-C-K.

Not like, oh, no, not.

Yeah. OK.

I don't know if Hawks say call, but I don't either.

But so that's why he was willing to lie for Buddy on the witness stand

and to help him escape because he never really paid back his debts

for the ski lodge because he was in deep hawk.

So, you know, let me just let you escape from fucking prison

on your murder charge. That's fine.

He's like, and then we're square after that.

I mean, if one thing will get you square, that's definitely it.

So DeRosa and hawk.

It will also get you into a lot of fucking trouble.

Sure will.

Because DeRosa was charged with escape, hindering prosecution,

burglary, criminal facilitation, criminal impersonation

and possession of a forged instrument.

Which was the fake ID that he used to check in at prison.

Oops. Oops.

Like, you might want to be in hawk now.

Now you're in hawk to the police.

That's no good.

So he was ordered to be held on five hundred thousand dollars bail.

Oh, damn, he was not getting out of there.

I was going to say, I don't think you're leaving.

No. In February, 1981, he was convicted of the charges

and he was sentenced to one to four years in prison

for his role in Buddy's escape.

Was it worth it?

Let me work it. No.

No. No.

Even Missy was like, no.

She was like, no, I won't put my thing down, flip it and reverse it.

She's like, I don't have time for that in this bullshit of case.

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So the DA's office plays several people in protective custody because remember,

at this point, he's convicted, but they have no fucking idea where Buddy went.

Oh yeah, you've just let a shark out of the cage.

And they have no idea what he's trying to do.

They were worried he was going to kill people.

He believed to be involved in his prosecution in his conviction.

Excuse me. Yikes.

So people were put into protective custody and those people included, obviously,

Melanie, Justice William Capelman or Cappelman and one of the witnesses

who ended up testifying against Buddy.

Damn.

But luckily, their fears were misplaced.

Buddy hadn't just fled Brooklyn.

He had left New York state entirely and fled to California.

Oh yeah.

The skies are always sunny.

There you go.

He's looking to surf some waves.

Catch 10.

Catch 10, I said.

He can also catch 10.

After he hangs it, he can catch it.

Yeah, you know, yeah, all that.

We're definitely not from New England at all.

No, what are you talking about?

It's autumn.

We're like oceans.

Vibes.

So according to his attorney, Buddy escaped, quote,

in an effort to find new evidence to vindicate himself for the murder of John Tupper.

Absolutely.

Sir, he went to California to find that.

Why would that be in California?

Because why are you asking questions?

OK, don't worry about it.

It's ridiculous.

Like, you don't need to know the method of his madness, OK?

They're like, we know Jack Tupper was murdered in New York City.

Absolutely.

About 3,000 miles away from California.

But the evidence to vindicate Buddy was 3,000 miles away in California.

Absolutely.

I don't understand what the question is here.

I'm confused.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me.

Yeah, you know, you know, that air.

The math is mapping for you at least.

Yeah, for sure.

Absolutely.

As far as investigators could tell after escaping from prison,

Buddy was met by his girlfriend.

He literally had a girlfriend at this point.

Wow.

Audrey Barrett and his son.

His son, David, who drove him out of the area.

Damn.

Later that day, Buddy stole a car from one of the My Fair Lady models.

His own, like, fam there.

He is wild.

He's the definition of wild.

And he and his girlfriend made their way to California,

camping out and checking into motels under aliases along the way.

Wow.

And once he arrived in California, Buddy, quote,

got into negotiations with a real estate agent in Northern

California to buy property.

Oh, this motherfucker thought he was just going to go to property

and be selling sunset.

Yeah, absolutely.

Sir, what?

So ultimately, though, it was Buddy's son, David,

that led to his recapture.

Oh, I kind of absolutely love that.

I absolutely positively love that.

Love it.

It led to his recapture six weeks after fleeing New York.

Good for him.

Because from the moment Buddy escaped,

detectives started following all of his friends,

all of his relatives, all of his associates,

nearly around the clock.

In fact, at one point, David Jacobson, the son there,

was being followed so closely by the police

that he pulled over to the side of the road,

walked back to the police car and said, all right,

let's use the same car and save gas.

Oh my god, I love it.

He was like, you know what?

He's like, you know what?

Why are we killing the planet here?

Let's save some gas.

He was 25 at this point.

And he had actually run into some legal troubles himself,

probably because of his father abandoned him.

Yeah, there's that.

So he was offered immunity in exchange for information

leading to the capture of his father, which he accepted.

On July 9th, David arranged for his dad

to call him that afternoon.

And the Brooklyn District Attorney's Office

had placed a tap on David's line, obviously.

And they were like, listen, you need

to keep your dad on the phone as long as you possibly can.

Yeah.

The trace took nearly 20 minutes,

which is kind of crazy to think about,

because I feel like they must happen a little faster now.

I would think so, but I honestly have no idea.

Yeah, I don't know really how that works.

I'd be interested.

My instinct is to say yes, but I would think.

Some things are still so slow.

They are.

But eventually, the phone company

was able to identify the incoming line

as being a pay phone outside a diner in Manhattan Beach.

So the DA relayed the information to Manhattan Beach Police

and Buddy was arrested that same after he...

Hell yeah.

They said, got him.

So when he was arrested, he confirmed his identity,

but he wouldn't say anything else to the police.

Of course not.

Now the next day, he was temporarily transferred

to a jail in LA before being returned

to Brooklyn the next day.

And days later, in an interview with reporters,

he claimed he had been betrayed by, quote,

someone I had confided in, someone I trusted emphatically.

And that, he said, was the only reason he was recaptured.

Like someone you trusted emphatically,

try someone you abandoned as a child.

Yeah, you forgot about that part.

Yeah, sorry.

You should add that in.

There's that small part, Buddy.

That's the important part of the equation.

Exactly.

So by the following spring, Buddy was tried

alongside Anthony D'Rosa for the escape

and given a sentence of one to seven years

to be served concurrently with the life sentence

that he was given for the murder of Jack Tupper.

Wow.

So life plus one to seven years.

Not a good note.

Definitely not.

Now in the years that followed his recapture,

Buddy, he kept asserting his innocence.

He never would admit that he did anything to Jack.

Which he did.

He insisted that he had been framed forever.

No.

In an interview with the LA Times,

he repeated his earlier claim that Melanie

had manipulated her cocaine dealer boyfriend

into killing Jack, who was also her boyfriend.

And then the two framed him for the murder.

I don't see it.

No one else did.

So you're not alone.

I don't see it.

As evidence, he cited the one holdout on the jury

who after the trial told reporters,

they wore me down.

There's a reasonable doubt that he did it.

No.

Where is that?

Can you show it to me?

Yeah, just can you produce that reasonable doubt?

What is the reasonable doubt?

I just don't see it.

Now, when the reporter suggested that his escape

from prison might have only made him look more guilty,

Buddy replied, but the only reason I ran was to be free.

I hadn't done anything.

I was the same as those hostages in Iran.

Ah.

Ah.

You sure about that?

Ah.

That's the overstatement of the century.

I don't know about that, Buddy.

Sir.

Sir.

You know what?

I do know about that.

That's a no.

We all know about that.

You are a drama fucking queen.

Are you kidding me?

That's a lot.

That's not helping your case, Fran.

No, that's hurting your case.

Yeah, you're an asshole.

You're an asshole.

You've never looked like anything else but an asshole.

As for his feelings toward Melanie,

Buddy claimed he had no ill will for her.

He said, I don't think Melanie lied in court.

She was too dumb to lie.

She was sick.

She had hyperglycemia.

What does hyperglycemia have to do with lying?

He's like, you know what?

I need a cracker.

She's dumb.

She's stupid and she didn't need a cracker.

It's like, what the fuck, guy?

That precludes you from lying?

That's like such an old man thing to say though.

I mean like, ah, she's stupid and she was hungry.

Like that's, what the fuck, Buddy?

Like, damn.

Correct.

What the fuck, Buddy, is the theme of the entire thing.

Yeah, it also, shut up, stop talking about her.

Everybody stop asking him questions about her.

Don't put her fucking name in your mouth.

Exactly.

Buddy believed that Melanie was manipulated

by the district attorney and the police

who he said wanted to pin it on him

in order to close the case.

So now he's away from the fact that Melanie framed him.

He's saying it was the police who wanted to pin the case

on him for evidently no reason at all.

Okay, cool.

And like, did the witnesses,

that's how the car that you were in,

did they also, were they part of this grand conspiracy?

They too, had hyperglycemia.

They too, needed a fucking cracker.

Lies.

They were stupid.

Correct.

So it was that, wow.

So in 1988, Buddy Jacobson was diagnosed with bone cancer.

Oh.

Yeah.

And prison officials at Attica suggested moving him

to a secure medical facility for treatment.

But Buddy refused.

Okay.

He was not for that.

He told his sister during a phone call,

they want to send me to a county hospital.

They want me to go there and die.

Well.

I cannot be wrong.

On May 16th, 1989, Buddy Jacobson did die.

Okay.

At the Erie County Medical Center in Buffalo

at 58 years old.

Damn.

Yeah.

Following the trial, Melanie Kane,

she tried to continue modeling,

but she found that the notoriety surrounding the case

made it way too difficult for her to find work.

But a short time later, she did marry and she started a family

and just hoped to put the murder

in her relationship with Buddy behind her.

Damn.

And Jack's poor family was just left

to clean up the pieces of his absence.

Yeah.

Oh.

All because Buddy Jacobson is a giant fucking twat.

Cause he couldn't just fucking move on.

He could have, like that woman said in the beginning,

he could have had nine girls, 13 girls.

Yeah.

And then he just became obsessed with this one girl

and ruined her life and the man she loved.

And this girl was very upfront with him.

She, Melanie was like, I don't like you.

So let it go.

Move the fuck on.

And the thing was he could have had her,

but he treated her like she wouldn't have her.

So she was like, let me go find someone way fucking better

than you in every way humanly possible.

Precisely.

But yeah, it's just such a senseless case

in the way that they just over the overkill in this case.

Oh, that's horrific.

It's so sad.

It really does feel like a mafia style murder

cause it's so brutal and gruesome.

Yeah, I think Buddy had some connections.

They just like, there's just so much overkill

that it just feels like a different kind of

situation a little bit.

Yeah, I definitely think that there were some connections

to that.

Yeah, there's something going on there.

Especially how powerful Buddy was in New York.

You know what I mean?

There was some kind of like something going on there.

Oh, it's awful.

It's really sad.

Maybe we can cover something like haunted next or creepy.

I think up next we're going to be talking about a witch trial.

Oh, hell yeah, that's haunted and creepy.

And not the one you know.

So we'll, we know a couple at this.

Yeah, I'm excited about that.

Yeah, let's fucking go girls.

The crazy one.

We'll see you on, I think it's like Thursday

or something on Thursday.

Hell yeah, look at me knowing when we record.

Hell yeah.

Well, we hope you keep listening

and we hope you keep it weird.

But that's a weird that you lie a lot and kill people

because I don't like that.

Don't be this guy.

Just go eat a cracker.

Yeah, don't be dumb and hungry.

I guess.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.