Morbid: Episode 465: The Devil Made Me Do It

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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash, and I'm Alaina, and this is Morbid.

This is Morbid.

Hey guys, um, you've been here before probably?

Yeah, you probably haven't.

If you haven't, welcome.

Hey, what's up?

You're coming in on a weird case because we're getting weirdly demonic, and we have a lot

of priests in this week's episodes.

Yeah, right?

Yeah, no, that's weird.

I thought you were about to say there's a lot of priests in yours, and I was like,

my whole thing is about a priest.

I also have a lot of priests.

Or a pastor.

I think there's a difference.

I have lots of priests in mine.

I have pastors and youth pastors.

There you go.

I have demons.

I have the Warrens in mine.

Oh, you got any prophecies?

Uh, kind of.

Oh, I have a lot of prophecies.

A little bit.

Yeah, there's a claimed and alleged prophecy.

Should we play like demon bingo?

What demon bingo?

My god, guys, set up a demon bingo when you get to my case.

After you finish mine, combine me and Alaina's and make a demon bingo.

I love that.

And when you get bingo, instead of saying bingo, you have to say something in Latin.

Oh, do not read the Latin.

Do not read the Latin.

No, no, baby.

Well, I don't think we have anything we really want to touch upon this week.

No, the Vanderpup rules finale or reunion hasn't happened yet.

So we got nothing to talk about.

Uh, if we have something to talk about, we will touch upon it in the next episode.

But right now, um, I have nothing.

My brain is just thinking about demons and the Warrens and all this craziness.

So we are talking about today.

Today.

The case that the conjuring part three, the devil made me do it is based on.

Ooh, slightly fun fact.

I've never seen any of the conjuring movies.

The I saw the first one.

Or wait, is that is the first one?

Annabelle or is that a completely separate?

Yeah, that's a different one.

No, the first conjuring I thought was great.

I didn't see any of the other ones.

So maybe they're great too.

Yeah.

The first one was fun.

Religious scary movies have a way of like really scaring the shit out of me.

So that's what I love about them.

See, I tend to avoid them.

You don't want to be scared.

No, I do, but I want to be scared in a different way.

I don't I don't like religious way.

I don't like the religious scared feeling.

Well, the first one is fun.

I think the first one has like it's like a fun haunted house kind of thing.

This one's definitely more religious space, but you know,

I don't think the first one's like super religious.

I think it's more just haunted house fun.

Yeah.

But this one is actually this case is called the devil made me do it case.

Oh, so the third conjuring is based off of this.

They definitely go a little, you know,

they take some artistic license towards the end,

but they do base a lot of the facts of the case on this.

Okay.

This is a wild case.

You're going to have your own thoughts about it.

Okay.

Have those thoughts.

I will.

Everyone's entitled to them.

I just want to get that right off the bat.

Oh, her face, you guys.

There's beliefs here that everybody's going to have different beliefs about.

Yeah.

There's there's, you know, demonic possession.

There's exorcisms.

The church is involved.

You know, the Warrens are involved.

People have thoughts about all these things and you're allowed to have those

thoughts have them exist with them.

But this one involves a guy named Arnie Johnson and his at the time,

his girlfriend Debbie Glatzel.

Okay.

We're going to start with talking about them because they are,

you know, where the actual criminal case comes in.

Oh, shit.

So according to his family growing up, Arnie Johnson was always a kind,

thoughtful person.

He'd go out of his way to help others.

He was a pretty normal kid.

His name's Arnie.

So I feel like he kind of has to be friendly.

I feel like you have to.

You know, they said that while everyone around him, all his peers were,

you know, drinking and, you know, going to clubs, just being rowdy teenagers.

I mean, Arnie was singing in the church choir and just playing little league and

taking his younger sister fishing.

Oh, just like, you know, he's just being a good brother.

Good old American boy.

His one of his friends said to reporters, this isn't direct quote.

He didn't go discoing.

He wasn't into drugs.

He doesn't have long hair and he never raised his voice.

Okay.

I would like to point out that discoing, having long hair and raising one's voice

was just attributed to being a bad person here.

Yeah.

I don't know about that, but okay.

No long hair.

Okay.

We are in Connecticut.

Just want to point that out.

But yeah, so that I was like, discoing, huh?

Discoing, it leads to having long hair.

Being a bad, being a bad.

And it's like, what would constitute raising one's voice?

Where's the line there?

Like, see, that's, that's also like everybody has a different opinion on that.

Yeah.

Like what is loud to someone is not loud to another.

Exactly.

I don't know.

But apparently his parents separated pretty early on in his life.

He was only nine months old.

Oh, that's there were periods that they attempted to reconcile with each other,

but they, it didn't work out and they officially divorced when he was about four

years old.

Oh, shit.

That's a long time.

Yeah.

Tamal Chewy.

Yeah.

His mother, Mary Johnson was a single mother at the time.

She struggled kind of working several jobs just to support Arnie and his

younger sisters, Wanda and Janice.

Wanda.

There was also a younger cousin named Mary who was living with the family on

and off, so she was supporting her as well.

When he finished eighth grade, he did try to move in with his father who at the

time was working as a landscaper in Bethel, Connecticut.

But unfortunately it didn't really work out.

I think they just couldn't really make their relationship work that closely

after all that time.

That's sad.

It was like kind of moving in with someone you don't really know that

well.

So he ended up returning to live with his mother and his sisters in Bridgeport

pretty quickly after trying this out with his dad.

But Arnie's mother was really trying her best just kind of struggling to

support all these children on her own.

That's a lot of kids.

So Arnie ended up dropping out of school at 16 to work odd jobs and just try

to support his siblings as well.

And it always makes me so sad when like a kid will drop out of school to like

help the family.

Yeah, like to try to help out.

Yeah.

Now, according to his mother, she said, quote, he took odd jobs.

That was really the only reason he left school was to help support us.

And it was through his mother that Arnie Johnson met his future girlfriend

and then wife, Debbie, Debbie Glatso.

He was just 12 years old when they met.

Oh, she was 19.

Oh, shit.

Yep.

Oh, shit.

Shit, shit, shit.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

It was 1974 and Debbie was working as a checkout clerk at a local grocery

store.

She later said, quote, I knocked over a display in the supermarket and Arnie

said to his mother, I'm going to help that lady.

I'd like to point out that I'm uncomfortable here.

I would like to point out that I think we should all be uncomfortable.

This is the part where I get uncomfortable and I stay uncomfy.

Debbie and Mary Johnson became close friends through seeing each other at

the grocery store.

Reminder, Mary is Arnie's mother.

Arnie is 12.

Debbie and Mary Arnie's mother are now close friends.

Yeah.

What the fuck is happening here?

So despite this seven year age difference and remember, it's all about phases

of life.

If they were in their 30s, if they were in their 20s, even this is a different

story, 12 and 19.

No, no, no, no, no.

It's also all about the law.

Like that's illegal.

It's like, no, no, no, no, no.

And like baby girl, what are you finding like stimulates your relationship with

a 12 year old?

I was just going to say, I'm going to stop you there.

Like, but yeah.

But yeah, they began dating a few years later.

What do you have in common?

I don't know how old he was when they began dating.

They didn't date when he was 12, but that's when she had met him.

And yeah.

And at the beginning of their relationship, they actually lived with Debbie's

family in Brookfield for a few months to save their money.

And by 1980, when he was technically an adult, the couple move to decided to

move in together and they also brought along Arnie's mother, sisters and younger

cousin, Mary, the one that was living with them to live with them in a small

house that they found to rent in nearby Newtown.

So Debbie said about that home.

It was like my dream house.

I thought we could build a nice, beautiful life there.

Okay, Debbie, spoiler alert.

They didn't.

Yeah, I mean, they were very excited about the move, but that all changed very

quickly because on moving day, Debbie's 11 year old brother, David had an

alleged paranormal experience that terrified them and changed everybody's

lives.

Oh, shit.

Debbie's brother, you said.

Yes.

So Debbie's little brother, it was 11 years old, David.

According to Debbie, David really liked Arnie.

We got along very well with him.

Just wanted to be around him a lot.

So like he wanted to help the couple move that day.

And so the day of the move, he went with them to get everything settled.

And when they got to the house, they noticed that the previous tenants had

left some furniture, which included a bed in the main bedroom.

And it was while he was cleaning in the main bedroom that David, the 11 year

old first saw what he called the fiendish looking figure that he described

as an old man, burnt and black looking.

Ooh.

Yeah.

And apparently he was basically telling them beware, get out of this house.

That was the vibe that David was getting.

The little 11 year old.

Now apparently upon seeing this horrifying sight, David yelled, screamed

and ran from the house altogether.

And this is like during the day.

It sounds like during the day and Debbie and Arnie followed out behind him

and he was freaking out.

He would not go back in the house.

David told his sister that the old man had pushed him and that he was not

going back in that house.

He was terrified and he wouldn't.

Debbie and Arnie went back in and continued cleaning, but David stayed

outside until they were ready to leave.

He wouldn't go back in.

So later that night over dinner at Debbie's parents house, Debbie and Arnie

were telling Debbie's mom about what had happened at the house.

And while they were talking about it, David came out of his bedroom and

said he was still having visions of the old man in the house, but now he

could hear his voice in this house.

Now, according to David in visions, he could see the old man and he said,

this old man has an animal trapped in the house and is tormenting it.

And he said the animal is scratching at the door trying to escape.

What the fuck?

And this kid is just coming out of this with nowhere.

Like I've never had any other like conversations like this.

Not that we know of.

Okay.

But over time, he would keep elaborating on this story and it became

more and more detailed and the man eventually apparently was described as

having like hooves for feet and that this sometimes there was other men

around him and they were wearing grotesque costumes.

Like it was getting scarier and scarier.

Yeah.

And as this got more detailed and more frequent, the story started to scare

Debbie and she honestly wondered, should we move into this little rental

house?

I don't think we should.

I mean, after a while, you would start to be nervous.

But they had invested so much time and money in it that they really couldn't

afford to back out.

So they did return to Newtown the following day and kept moving into the

house.

And when they got to the house that day, things changed a little bit

because Arnie and Debbie immediately noticed scratches on the inside of

the front door and they looked like an animal had caused it.

Oh shit.

Okay.

That would freak me out.

So Arnie later told producers of a haunting, which was a reality series

that talks about paranormal experiences.

He said, when I saw the scratches on the door, I was starting to really

question, well, maybe something is definitely wrong here.

Now, I have to ask, did David see those scratches the day before

when he was helping them move and was possibly influenced by that?

Like maybe he did see something scary and maybe he saw those scratches

and it made its way into the narrative of the story.

Do we know if the previous tenants had a dog?

We do not know that.

So that, and that's the thing.

I was like, Bailey, we didn't, we didn't train her to like, oh my God,

I bring a bell or anything like that.

Like we've now got a bell on the door for Sydney and Blanche, but with

Bailey, she just scratched the hell out of our door.

And so I was like, that could definitely just be a dog.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, just saying.

So either way though, Debbie interpreted this as confirmation that what

David was saying about the old man and what he was seeing was true.

And he was like, she was like, they had already invested two months

rent into this place, but they decided they weren't moving in after this.

Wow.

Yeah.

So Arnie and Debbie felt comfortable with this decision.

They were like, nope, not doing it.

But Mary Johnson, who is Arnie's mom, she was not so convinced that

there was really reason to back out of this, mainly because Mary had

already given notice to her landlord that she was going to be moving out

and had to live somewhere.

The plan was she was going to move into this house with Debbie and Arnie

with her kids.

And so she was like, oh, so Arnie and Debbie, we're going to live

with Debbie's family in Brookfield for the time being until they

could find another place.

But Mary and her children had already given notice to the landlord.

So they decided to actually move into the house in Newtown.

I mean, where else exactly?

Where else could they go?

So you would think that the house in Newtown, that place is going to

be where the problem is.

No, no, no.

That didn't have a problem.

Now Arnie and Debbie, now their plans have been put on hold.

They're not moving into that little house or his mom did, his little

sisters have.

So they kind of took all their stuff out of that house, went back

to Debbie's parents' house.

They were going to stay there for a while.

But when they got there, Debbie's mom was very agitated and she was

saying that David had been upset all evening and was insisting that

the old man who he was now calling the beast was angry with him for

telling Arnie and Debbie not to move into that house in Newtown.

And what David was saying was that the beast had followed him from that

home and had followed him to the Brookfields home.

It was now in their house.

Okay.

And that he wanted to take his soul, that he was like aggressive, like

he was pushing him and scratching him and hurting him.

And Arnie later said, quote, the fear in this child was so overwhelming.

Something was going wrong and I believed him.

Okay.

So the following day, Arnie and Debbie were like, you know what?

Like he's so upset.

Let's get him out of the house for a little while.

So they were hoping like just a casual afternoon outside at the park or

whatever was going to hopefully take his mind off the scary ass old

man beast that he was seeing.

Distract him.

Seemed like it was going okay.

But then when they returned back to the Glatzel house at Brookfields,

David refused to go inside and he told his sister the beast was in

that house and he was like, I'm not going in and they had to convince

him.

It took a lot of convincing for him to finally go in that house.

God, if my kid starts doing this shit, man, I'm going to, I got to go.

I got to go return the whole ass kid.

And that night as David was going to bed, it apparently escalated and

according to Arnie and Debbie, David was being physically attacked by

an unseen force.

Y'all, David just didn't want to go to bed.

This force was striking him, pushing him around the room.

Arnie said later, quote, the scariest part to me was seeing David go

through this with nothing there to do it.

It was terrifying.

So no one knew what to do.

Okay.

So, and he was having outbursts.

He was like, according to them, he was having convulsions.

He was yelling, screaming, swearing, kicking, becoming more and more aggressive.

And David's 11 at this point.

And it's like out of character.

It's out of like, according to them, it's out of nowhere.

It's getting worse and worse.

So they don't know what to do.

Me, I would call a doctor.

Debbie's family went to the priest at their church and asked if

they could perform an exorcism or some kind of similar ritual.

Since the early 1960s, the Catholic Church had definitely tried

to minimize like the talk of demons and, you know, evil like that,

like, you know, this kind of thing.

But then Rosemary's baby in the exorcist came out.

It became more popular.

People started suddenly knowing about exorcisms.

People who didn't know about it previously.

Suddenly it's a thing where like everybody needs an exorcism.

Right.

And after hearing the family story about what's going on with

David, the priest who is unnamed, lots of unnamed priests in here.

There's always unnamed priests because there isn't.

So the priest told the family he wasn't going to do an exorcism

because he was like, that's kind of wild and you'd need a lot

of permissions and it's like this big process.

We can't just do one.

Well, it seems like you're like jumping.

Well, and he's literally like you would have to wait for weeks

for us to get approval from like higher ups in the diocese.

Like we can't just perform exorcisms.

They're dangerous and like very involved.

Do we need lots of people?

So he was like, yeah, I'm not going to do an exorcism, but he was like,

let me do some more research.

And while I'm doing this research for what I can do for you,

why don't you bless your house with some holy water, light some

candles, do some prayers.

Get out of here.

So it seems very helpful.

Thanks.

So shockingly, the thoughts and prayers method of getting rid of evil had

little effect on this whole thing.

Usually does.

David's behavior did not change.

What was happening to him was not changing.

Allegedly, he was speaking in Latin at times and reciting passages

from Paradise Lost.

He was contorting, screaming.

It was getting worse and worse.

What is Paradise Lost?

It's a poem about a battle between Satan and God.

Oh, okay.

So it's it's got religious connotations and also like a cultist

connotations in it.

Oh, okay.

I just know it as the documentary.

I was going to say, I know you're thinking of the Robin Hills

murders at the West Memphis Three.

Yep.

Yeah.

That's kind of why like it's it's very much in like culture and

popular culture that the name Paradise Lost, but he was 11 at

the time.

He had not read the epic poem by John Miller.

So like him apparently reciting things from it was strange.

Yeah.

To the to the family, which I understand it.

I got that.

That'd be strange to me.

I got that.

So, you know, out of options, again, the family went back to

the unnamed priests who had now agreed to come to the Glatzel

house to perform a blessing ritual, not an exorcism, just blessing

the house.

Well, that's the thing.

I'm like, usually there are a couple steps first.

Yeah.

There's the holy water and the blessing lead up to the, you

know, read a prayer, a Hail Mary.

Yes.

But there's an exorcism.

Yeah.

They were like, we need an exorcism.

Now, according to the Glatzels, when the priest had completed

the blessing, he told them it's definitely not going to be

sufficient enough to end what's going on here.

Like I've done my best, but he was like, then they said he,

this unnamed priest who is never named told them to reach

out to Ed and Lorraine Warren, who are a husband and wife

team of paranormal investigators who lived in nearby Monroe

Connecticut.

Okay.

So this was interesting me.

So Dave, our Dave, found some information that was really

interesting to me.

This story has been told over and over in various forms of

media over the years, like in, like it's in the basis of a

conjuring movie.

I know.

It's so funny because like I know nothing.

Yeah.

It's, it's a, it's been told a million times, but the more

sensational parts of the ones everyone remembers or the ones

that get retolds, but there is lesser parts of the story that

are pretty important just around the whole thing out.

I don't think it's good to tell the story from one point of

view, which is demon possession.

Yeah.

No.

I think it's probably smart to look at the other people

involved.

And if somebody else is saying, I didn't see any of that, then

at least you need to hear that part of it.

That's not fun.

And not discussed a lot was the fact that there was a third

glats old child who falls between David and Debbie in

birth order and has a very different version of events

than his two, then, you know, especially his older sibling

Debbie.

So I was going to say in the middle of David and Debbie.

Yeah.

So David is his younger brother and he's very protective of

him.

What is this person's name?

Carl.

Damn it.

I thought it was all going to be D's and that's something

that happens in my story.

And I was like, wait a second.

No, this guy's Carl.

That was amazing.

I wish John was up here.

Carl.

Carl.

But I'm not saying who's right or wrong because none of

us were there, but it's interesting that Carl Jr.

has a different version of events and he shouldn't be left

out of the narrative for the sake of only telling the demon

narrative.

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So beginning in 1979, Carl Glatzel Jr.

was 14 years old and he said at the beginning of 1979,

he was feeling very helpless because he was watching his

younger brother, David's mental and emotional health begin

to rapidly decline.

That's how he saw it.

And at first he said this manifested with some acute

behavioral problems.

He saw him having trouble in school, like learning

disabilities, but by 1980, the problems really allegedly

escalated.

He said David began experiencing what Carl referred to as

delusions and he said he was having seizures sometimes or

what he saw as seizures.

And other people maybe saw as convulsions.

Exactly.

And Carl told reporters in 2007, it was a living hell when

we were kids.

It was an absolute nightmare.

That's really sad.

According to Carl, the family was convinced David's issues

were spiritual and not physical or psychological.

So they insisted on turning to a priest at church instead of

a doctor.

But when he, this priest, this unnamed priest was unable to

offer really anything besides this blessing ritual and likes

a little bit of spiritual guidance.

And like Ed and Lorraine Warren.

He says he believes his parents turned to the Warrens, his

family turned to the Warrens themselves.

And that Carl, what Carl says is that the Warrens saw their

family as a gold mine.

Oh, shit.

Allegedly.

Yeah.

Allegedly, of course.

This is just a part of the story not often included and

it's important to talk about the fact that not everyone in

the family saw this as a spiritual or demonic issue.

Yeah.

At least Carl saw it as a psychological or physical

issue that a doctor, a medical doctor should have been

consulted on.

Well, and that's the thing.

It's like you can consult a doctor and a priest.

You don't have to consult like neither is exclusive.

Yeah, exactly.

You can have both of them working at the same time.

Right.

Now back to where we were.

Ed and Lorraine Warren have entered the chat now.

Can I stop you for a quick second?

So David, sorry, Carl sees David having all these problems

and the problems that he saw started before even he's like

talked about the beast or right around the same time.

No, he said it's about the same time.

He just saw it starting to rapidly decline.

Okay, gotcha.

He said it was small, but it started to really escalate.

So Ed and Lorraine Warren have entered the chat and by this

time they had been, by the time that they became involved

with this whole thing, they were already very well known.

Since the early 1950s, even the Warrens had been involved

in paranormal investigations.

Lorraine was a psychic medium and Ed was a self-described

demonologist.

They flew under the radar at first a little bit, but in 1975

is when they really blew up to paranormal stardom.

Which makes sense.

Because that's when Ronald DeFeo Jr.

went on trial for the murder of his family in Amityville, New

York.

The Amityville horror is very well known to both horror and

true crime buffs worldwide.

Yup.

It's become its own kind of cultural force at this point,

but in the beginning, it was a real straightforward shocking

case of a family annihilation.

Yeah.

That's what it is.

I know, I think that gets lost.

It gets buried.

Which is really tragic.

It was on November 14th, 1974 that Ronald DeFeo Jr.

silently went room by room in his family home in the middle

of the night shooting and killing his parents, Ronald DeFeo

Sr. and Louise DeFeo and four siblings, his sibling Dawn 18,

Allison 13, Mark 12 and John 9.

So sad.

They were all in their beds and he shot them all in the head

with a rifle.

After doing so, he left and he just unleashed and unloaded

what he had just done to a bar full of people and was very

much quickly arrested.

Initially, he claimed that these killings were a professional

hit.

That was his initial story.

Initial story, excuse me, but that fell apart pretty fast

and it became clear that it was him.

He had done it.

Yeah.

He struggled a lot with several different things.

He had a terrible tumultuous violent relationship with his

father.

There were many factors in this whole case that you can point

to for what was going on at that time.

That's the straightforward answer for that.

Yeah.

A year later.

So that happened and that was like, whoa, okay.

Yeah.

Family annihilation.

That's horrific.

What a case.

What an awful thing to happen.

What a vibe that house must have now.

The end.

No.

Well, a year later, a newly married couple named George and

Kathy Lutz moved into the DeFeo home with their blended

family, even though that home had those like bad, you know,

what had happened there.

They were like, you know what?

We're going to make it our home.

It's okay.

But after living there for only about a month, they abandoned

it, leaving a lot of things behind just fleeing that house.

They claimed it was haunted.

It was horrible.

Horrible things were happening in that house.

The claims were very, very heavily and completely investigated

by skeptics, paranormal investigators, literally anybody

that could go in there.

They were pretty, pretty like quickly looked at as like, I

don't know about that.

Right.

Pretty unfounded.

But the people who really believed them really believed

them and two of those people were Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Also DeFeo's lawyer, William Weber looked at this and said,

oh, I believe them too.

And he claimed that DeFeo was possessed by a demonic entity

when he murdered his family.

What an argument.

The same entity that drove the Lutz's from their house.

So the story behind the supposed Amityville haunting and its

connection to the DeFeo murders is so long, so complicated,

very confusing at times.

There's just a lot there.

Very layered.

But in the decades that followed this whole thing,

claims of demonic possession and hauntings at the DeFeo

slash later Lutz household.

We're definitely called into question and in some court

cases where they admitted it was a hoax.

Yeah, like it was very much admitted to being a hoax.

But people were really interested in it.

There's, there's novels.

There's a long line of films that, you know, catapulted the

whole thing into like the zeitgeist and everybody questioning

whether everybody wants to believe that the haunting of

Amityville is true.

I did it too.

When I first read it, people love hauntings.

People love like spooky shit and Amityville is like the most

iconic to most people.

And I remember like when I was younger and I first read about

it, I was like, oh my God, and you read about the walls

bleeding and you're like, holy shit, the walls, like that's

wild.

All the flies, like the pig in the corner with the glowing

red eyes, like what the fuck?

And it's like, so to hear it was all bullshit.

And this is just a straightforward story of like a

really tragic, tragic family annihilation.

It's of course everybody's like, oh bummer.

Yeah, nobody wants to look to that part of it.

And then Lorraine are a huge part of this story because

they really went hard at it.

They believed it.

It catapulted them into the public eye at that point.

And they were like the it couple of the paranormal world at

that time.

They got booked on talk shows.

They were becoming public speakers.

They this shot them into the stratosphere.

Now, according to Lorraine Warren, the blessings on the

Glatzels house, bringing it back to this case, it had no

effect on David Glatzels behavior.

When she went in there, she saw that they had done nothing

which the Glatzels preached apparently according to them

had reached, reached out to the Warrens because he also

believed it wasn't going to have an effect on David.

They lived only 30 minutes away from this family.

So they were like, why not?

And Lorraine claims she received the call from that

unnamed priest who said there's something definitely wrong

and I believe it would be possession.

So I'd like you to look into it.

Okay, this is what she said.

And she said the priest told her the story, told her all

about what was going on with David, that he had tried,

that the family had tried with the blessings and nothing

worked and that they needed urgent help.

So they went straight from Monroe and went right to the

Glatzels home pretty shortly after.

But other people say that the mom just called them directly.

That's Carl's feeling.

That's Carl's feeling.

I don't know if anybody else feels that way.

These are just feelings.

Nobody really knows what happened.

Yeah.

But when Lorraine met David, she said she believed,

whoops, sorry, I just dropped my charger.

How dare you?

How dare I?

Lorraine said she believed there was, quote,

a creature in that child's body.

Wow.

And she said that creature was there to cause considerable

psychic and physical harm to him and his family.

Well, like why though?

I'm not really sure, but you know, it was there apparently.

The Glatzels told Ed and Lorraine that David's behavior

was becoming increasingly more aggressive.

They had seen the beatings that had been inflicted upon

this boy by this unseen beast themselves.

And of course, the Warrens looked at this and said,

100% he is possessed by a demon.

Now Debbie Glatzel figured it was linked to the property

somehow, which makes no sense because it initially

supposedly attached to him at the other house where

Mary Johnson is currently living fine.

But she figured, why can't we just move away from this

house and hopefully solve the problem?

But Lorraine was like, no, and she said it would do

no good at this point because it would follow us.

That's the difference between a haunted house and

haunted people.

Say what you want about the Warrens, but they know

how to speak spooky is what I have to say about that.

The difference between a haunted house and haunted people.

Yeah, that's, that's wonderful.

All right, I get it.

Poetic justice.

I would get sucked into.

I would too.

So the Warrens insisted, according to them, the only

thing that was going to fix David was an actual exorcism

performed by a Catholic priest.

But like I said before, you don't just get an exorcism.

Right.

Getting an approval for an exorcism can take months.

You have to petition the church.

They have to go through a whole thing.

They didn't have that kind of time.

David is increasingly getting worse and worse.

So luckily Ed Warren tells the family, don't worry about it.

I can perform a minor exorcism, which can be done sooner.

Okay.

And the Glatzels were like, cool.

Interesting that this sounds like super duper dire.

And he's like, I think a minor exorcism will do it.

I think I can just like do a quickie.

It sounds like if he needs an exorcism, he needs a motherfucking

exorcism.

Don't you think that if you have to get like all that permission

and shit, there's a petition.

There's a reason you have to do that.

Now, according to the United States Conference of Catholic

bishops, minor exorcisms are quote prayers used to break

the influence of evil and sin in a person's life.

I just have to say it's wild that like actual documents

exist that like explain what this is and how to go about it.

Yeah.

That's just how I feel.

And here's the thing.

I am a believer in many things.

I'm also I'm also a healthy.

I was getting I was meaning to say healthy and also it's hard.

I'm also a healthy skeptic, but an open-minded skeptic.

I am willing and honestly eager to have my mind changed about

certain things.

That's true.

She is I but I am always looking at the logical side of things

if I possibly can.

Demonic possession.

I can't rule it out in life.

No, and I can't say that I don't believe it happens.

I can't say that I don't think that anything like that could

happen.

I can't say it because I don't know.

I'm not here to say I know either way.

That would be foolish to me.

Yeah.

But I think when it comes to like the religious part of it is

where I have the problem mainly because I am not a religious

person to so to me, why would that help me?

If I don't believe in it?

You know, and I feel like some people that are dealing with

this possibly maybe don't believe in it either.

And is that going to help them?

Like why is it so connected?

I know it's so connected because of the Bible and like all the

stories and everything and like, you know, Satan and all that

stuff.

Well, and I think a lot of times people that believe in demons

think they're like like hell's demons.

Yeah.

It's just I feel like it's too linked.

Yeah, I agree with religion for me to fully engage in it.

Mm hmm.

But I'm I'm I like believe in ghosts.

I believe in well, that's the thing.

I had entities, but I look at it more like energy, a bad entity.

Yeah.

Like I don't look at it as like a hell demon.

Same.

You know, like because I don't think it has any link to that.

I think it's just bad.

Right.

That's what I was just going to say.

And I think that's where I lose it.

And I think a lot of times like things are bad because of like

energy and things that happened there.

Yeah.

Like I can get down with the idea that like a ghost is a

like this is at least what I kind of think is like a ghost

was a person.

Yeah.

But a bad entity like a demon per se like the like if I see

what like something that I feel like maybe was a person maybe

wasn't even a person.

It's just bad energy.

That's what I think too.

But I don't know, but then I think there can also be bad spirits

that were people.

Yeah, exactly.

Because it's bad people.

Yeah.

So it's like, I don't know.

I don't know exactly how I believe it.

I just know I don't know everything about it.

So I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I do and say that

like all that's bullshit because I don't know.

So it's like I'm very open-minded to understanding it.

But when it gets too wrapped up with like this kind of thing,

I'm like, you're losing me because I don't I don't think I

believe that that's where it comes from.

But you might.

So and that's fine.

Yeah, exactly.

But I'm just saying what I think.

So while the glazzles waited to hear back from the Warrens

about getting this minor exorcism up and chugging, David's behavior

got worse and it got more aggressive.

So Lorraine later told reporters, you can't even begin to believe

the things we witnessed in that home and to that boy.

He came under hideous attacks.

He had marks all over his body.

He could tell things that were going to happen in the future.

The Warrens said that they saw David levitate off his bed.

Okay.

So eventually they began to record their interactions with David

because pictures or it didn't happen.

Yes, obviously.

But mainly audio recordings.

Oh, so pictures and it didn't happen.

So audio recording or it didn't happen.

And a recording made October 14th, 1980.

David, you can hear David breathing really heavily and he's making

like guttural sounds.

That's really scary.

And then it's followed by a voice Debbie says is David saying

Cheyenne dies at work tomorrow.

Now this was apparently a reference to Arnie Johnson because his

middle name is Cheyenne.

Oh, now according to Debbie, the next day Arnie, who was a worked

at a tree surgery company fell 20 feet from a tree and suffered

a quote minor knee injury.

Oh, shit.

So like he didn't die.

No, he had a minor knee injury.

Yeah, but I mean to fall 20 feet from a tree.

That's really fucking scary.

I found no reports of this, but it happened according to them.

So allegedly that happened.

He had a minor knee injury.

So he didn't die at work that day, but something strange, very

strange.

And if it did happen, then like, whoa, something bad happened

and he could have died.

Yeah, exactly.

So there's that a near death experience.

Exactly.

So maybe he just wasn't being detailed, you know, but in another

incident, Arnie apparently, and this happened a lot.

Apparently Arnie would challenge the demon.

I thought you were going to say this happened a lot.

Arnie just fell from a lot of trees.

He just fell a lot.

No, Arnie would challenge the demon a lot and he would challenge

it to leave David's body and enter his.

Oh, now, but he was 19 at the time.

Tough guy, tough guy, tough guy shit.

And he loves this boy.

And again, David like was really close to Arnie at some point

according to reports, according to the family.

So like he, he didn't like seeing him like this.

Yeah, it sounds like a brotherly relationship.

So he would do this a lot.

He would like, and Lorraine and Ed would look at it as taunting

and they said that it was, it was not a good idea and they

didn't like that he was doing it.

Um, and Arnie can be heard on a recording saying, tell him

I'll fight him.

And after that Arnie claims he started having paranormal

experiences of his own and he would see a dark figure like

things were happening.

It's such new inclin vibes right there.

Like, tell him I'll fight him.

Tell them tell that demon.

I'll fucking fight him.

Thank you so much for saying that because all like a picture

with somebody being like, tell him I'll fight him.

Come at me, bro.

Get out of here.

Like it's just, I'm sorry.

That's all I could think of.

No, it's true because that's such new England vibes.

I'm like, are you like from Massachusetts?

No, because that's very Massachusetts vibes.

Like squaring up with a demon.

Like get out of the fucking kid.

I'll fight you.

Like get out of here.

Let's bring this down and don't get it, right?

I'll take it outside.

I'll be a media mice regular and then I'll fight you.

I thought that same thing when I read it.

I was like, this is so new England.

Damn.

And again, very Massachusetts.

Like very dumb new England be like, get out of there.

I'll fight you.

But yeah, he started seeing dark figures.

He was having experiences of his own.

And in an interview later, Debbie recalled an incident

where she said they were had her and Arnie were having

a discussion with another couple and Arnie out of nowhere

began to growl and started shaking all over and she said,

I could tell it wasn't Arnie.

Okay.

Now later the other couple feel about that, right?

I don't nobody tells you like what how they reacted.

Yeah, I need to know.

Yeah.

And in a New York Times article, his David's mother further

said what was happening with David at the time saying he

would kick bite spit terrible swear words and she said

that he was thrown around on the floor like a rag doll.

She remembered seeing it.

But then she was quoted as saying about David and he

can't even do a sit up.

He's too fat.

Oh, that's so mean to say about your child.

That's a weird thing to throw at the end of he's being

possessed and beaten by a demon is to like throw that in at

the end.

I was like body shame him.

I don't know about this guys.

My God.

And I just thought it was like so shitty.

I was like, yeah, that's a weird thing to throw at the

end of that.

Like to talk about your son so mean and callous.

Yeah, I was like, I don't like that.

I can't imagine ever calling I mean anyone fat, but especially

my child because in my opinion, like, like no matter what

something was happening with David.

Yeah, obviously, whether you believe it is demonic possession

or you believe he is going through some kind of mental

illness in very distressing mental illness.

He's suffering like he is going through it and he's not

getting the proper help and it's like to talk about him

like that.

Like that just wasn't cool to me.

I was like, I don't know about it.

Yeah, it doesn't sound very loving.

No, that was just like I was like, whoa, and I'm like,

you're you're so worried about him, but you still have time

to yeah, like you didn't have to say that.

Yeah, like you could have just said like he got thrown around

on the floor.

It was wild.

Yeah, like the end.

It doesn't you don't need to add that extra crack.

Can even say he wasn't very agile.

Yeah, like any way of saying it, but either way by the end

of 1980, David's behavior reached peak status when in a fit

of rage, he allegedly tried to stab Arnie with a kitchen

knife.

Oh, no, according allegedly.

Yeah, again, I'm saying there's no report of this.

I did not find a report of this.

But according to the Glatzels, David claimed the beast had

called on more demons to possess him.

So it wasn't just the beast anymore.

There were several demons.

In fact, according to Ed and Lorraine, there were 43.

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Now, after five weeks, priests from the Glatzels Church came

to the house to perform a second blessing, which I'm like,

guys, it's not working.

Put your water away.

And then they did do a minor exorcism.

Not a full one, not a major one.

And there is also no record of them doing an exorcism.

Like a factual exorcism.

Now, ultimately, the family claims the Glatzels claim that

four minor exorcisms were performed on David.

And in one of them, he stopped breathing and CPR had to be

administered.

Oh my God.

But the priests were eventually, according to them, able to

expel the demonic entities that were possessing David Glatzel.

It worked through the minor exorcisms.

Okay.

And in the months that followed these minor exorcisms,

according to them, things started to settle a little bit,

but then also they claim that David continued to have several

behavioral issues and psychiatric psychiatric problems.

And showed no improvement.

Okay.

So I guess they just gave up on him being possessed.

But like, so they said he's not possessed anymore, but he still

has behavioral issues.

Yeah, which to me, I'm like, call a doctor.

Can we call a doctor now?

Because like, that's what that says to me.

But with the minor exorcisms behind them, they were all

concentrating on that for a long time.

Now Arnie was able to devote more time to work where he was

working as a tree surgeon.

And he was, he was honestly kind of relying on more work

because he was support, helping to support his mother,

sisters and cousins still Debbie was also focusing on work.

She got a new job as a groomer at the Brookfield kennels.

Everything seemed to be going smoothly.

And while working there, Debbie first, that's where she first

met 40 year old Alan Bono, which and she'd, he had recently

moved to Brookfield to manage the kennel and he also managed

an apartment club complex nearby, which I guess they were

both owned by his sister, but he was managing them.

Now there were reports later that Arnie said he was feeling

strange around this time still, even though things had settled.

He was still feeling strange and he said that he was having

encounters with what he thought were demons or spirits.

They were trying to possess him still.

He said he believed that him taunting those demons and him

telling them to jump to him worked and that something stuck

with him.

Okay.

And he said at the old house, he saw a demon in an old well,

like looked him right in the face and Debbie told reporters

later Cheyenne would go into a trace.

Remember Cheyenne's his middle name.

Yep.

Yep.

He would go into a trance.

He would growl and say he saw the beast later.

He would have no memory of it.

It was just like David, but they assumed it was just like left

over demon from David's exorcism.

I guess I don't.

To me, it sounds like a PTSD.

Yeah.

I'm like, what's good?

Cause those exorcism, whatever was going on with David sounded

traumatic for everyone involved.

And so I assume everyone's going to have some trauma.

Some lingering effects.

But they were looking at it as he was also possessed.

Now, but it doesn't sound to me.

They didn't, I couldn't find anything about them doing anything

for this.

Like Arnie was dealing with this, right?

But it was going about his day to day life.

They didn't call a priest or anything like that.

Like you're, he's possessed, but you're letting him like climb

up to tall trees.

Yeah.

So I get whatever.

But at the beginning of the new year, Arnie and Debbie moved

into one of the apartments and bone in Allen Bono's complex.

Okay.

The guy who was working at the kennel with Debbie.

Okay.

They had Arnie's teenage sisters, Wanda and Janice and his

younger cousin, Mary move in with them as well.

Okay.

So according to Arnie's mother, Arnie and Allen got along

very well, had a very friendly relationship.

This is according to Arnie's mother.

And in 1981, Mary Johnson, Arnie's mother told reporters, he

used to tell me what a wonderful person Mr.

Bono was.

Could have been true, but on the afternoon of February 16th,

something happened that would suggest that may not be true.

Okay.

It's difficult to know exactly what happened on this day because

several different stories have been told and the only people

that can tell the stories are the people that survived the

incident and they all have different stories and there's

did their stories that have just changed a little bit.

Okay.

We're not really sure exactly what happened, but on the

afternoon of February 16th, 19 year old Arnie Johnson and

Allen Bono went to lunch at the Mug and Munch Cafe in Brookfield

with Arnie's sisters and 26 year old Debbie Glatzel, his

girlfriend.

I think it was about three hours they all hung out there and

apparently the two men drank between 13 and 15 glasses of wine.

Sorry.

How many 13 and 15 glasses of wine and how they were there for

three hours, 13 each between them between them.

Okay.

So like call that 14.

That's seven glasses of wine each.

Four glasses of wine is a bottle.

Yeah.

They almost had two bottles of wine each.

Holy fucking shit.

And apparently after that, they group all left the restaurant

and went back to the apartment.

I don't think Debbie was drinking.

Oh my God.

I assume they went back to the apartment to spew for days, but

apparently not.

Or like to go to sleep forever.

Like, oh my God.

Now based on interviews with Debbie Glatzel and Wanda Johnson,

who was the older of the sisters.

Yep.

Police conclude that around 6 30 that evening Bono had Allen Bono

had made some kind of mark remark about Johnson's girlfriend Debbie.

Okay.

This caused an argument between the two men.

That argument was taken outside the apartment at one point and

turned violent.

Yeah.

And again, they're both very drunk.

Yeah.

So in interviews and court documents, Arnie claimed that he

has no memory of what happened next.

I believe that.

But Debbie Wanda and several neighbors have witnessed testimonies

and they said the argument continued to escalate outside the apartment

and then Arnie eventually pulled out a five inch folding knife

and stabbed Allen Bono four times in the stomach.

Bono fell to the ground and Arnie allegedly walked off into the woods.

Okay.

And Debbie ran and sat back inside the apartment and she called

Nope, not an ambulance, but her father, Carl, who arrived shortly after.

Okay, Debbie.

An ambulance did arrive.

It's unclear who called for it.

Maybe Carl the father.

Maybe, but the ambulance driver testified that he found Allen Bono

lying face up in the parking lot.

Alive, but badly injured from four half moon shaped stab wounds below

his rib cage.

Why would they be half moon shaped?

It must have been some kind of curved blade.

I think.

Okay.

As they looked at his injuries and we're trying to get him on the

stretcher, the ambulance driver overheard Debbie Glatzel tell her father,

Oh, daddy, he didn't mean to do it.

You know how he gets when he's been drinking.

Oh, he like possessed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Later in an interview with police, Carl Glatzel would tell

investigators Cheyenne did it.

So there was no question here that that he did it.

Arnie did this Cheyenne Arnie did this.

There is an ambulance driver who heard her telling her father, you know

how he gets when he's drinking.

Uh-huh.

Just putting that out there.

Now Allen Bono was taken to Danbury hospital.

Remember, he is alive at this point, but he was pronounced dead at the hospital.

No, I was hoping you're going to say he survived.

Police were given Arnie's description and he was found only

about an hour later.

He was only a couple miles away.

He was charged with the stabbing and now murder and taken to Bridgeport

Correctional Center and held on $125,000 bond.

Damn.

So to the Brookfield police, this murder was pretty straightforward.

It was a drunken argument that got out of control with a very tragic outcome.

Yeah, there were multiple witnesses, but only days after Arnie's arrest,

Ed and Lorraine Lauren began promoting the story that it may have appeared

that Arnie killed Allen Bono, but he had only done so because he was possessed

by a demonic entity.

Oh, and not just one, but demonic entity.

He was possessed by many demonic entities.

Never.

Even like if he was, I just feel like it's not a good idea to insert yourself

in the middle of a murder trial.

The problem here is like, I don't know if this was a great idea.

Like, yeah.

No, I do know.

It's not a great idea.

Maybe he was possessed, like perhaps if you feel that way, you can.

But even so, he murdered someone.

He murdered someone.

And like you, there's, you can't blame that on anyone else.

Yeah, that's pretty black and white.

He murdered someone.

And Ed Warren said that Arnie made a big error when he challenged

those demons to leave David's body and come into his own.

No, I think he made a big error when he drank multiple bottles of wine.

And then killed someone.

And then killed someone.

And Lorraine told reporters he never realized there were so many demons

in the boy, 43 as we found out.

Now, but like, how do you think you're going to prove that?

Don't worry.

They're not.

They, I don't even think they know how they're going to prove it.

But ever since that whole thing happened, they had claimed that Arnie

had been under that demonic influence that wanted to hurt the Glatzel

family and ruin Arnie's life for challenging them.

Lorraine said we knew this case would end in tragedy, but Arnie was

the last one we would have thought that this would happen to the demon

used Arnie to achieve to achieve its goal.

It wanted to really destroy this young man's life.

Oh my God, I'm sorry.

That's so fucking distasteful.

Yeah, I think it's gross.

I think that's disgusting.

I think it's really gross.

Like you're sitting there saying that a demon wanted to ruin Arnie's

life when Arnie just took the life of another human being.

Yeah, like that's making a mockery of that man's murder.

And what's interesting is that Lorraine added also that he was definitely

he might have been possessed at the time of the murder a few days earlier,

but she and Ed didn't believe that he was still possessed just a few days

later when they gave their he was like, no, like this happens quick.

Well, yeah, I mean, the demon had already ruined his life.

So then he just like packed up and did it to somebody else.

But the considerable lengths that the Warrens and the Glatzels claim to

have gone through to literally exercise 43 demons out of David Glatzel.

That's wild that they went through all those lengths to get them out of David.

But when they just all 43 demons just voluntarily just took off.

They just dipped out right after like, yeah, I don't know.

Just like Rachel.

I don't know about that.

Yeah, I don't think those demons did dip out now under normal circumstances.

Investigators would have very quickly dismissed any of these claims of demonic influence.

But because there was involvement of the Catholic diocese of Bridgeport

in the previous minor exorcisms, the investigators kind of took a beat

to think about this.

I have to go at a time when nearly one third of Americans reported

some participation in the Catholic Church.

The involvement of the church did give this claim more credibility

and people in the face would have taken this claim in this case very seriously.

And Brookfield's police sergeant John Lucas told reporters as a basic

religious precept, it's all possible.

In this case, I'm just not sure I'm keeping an open mind.

Uh-huh.

So I think they were essentially trying to be like, we're not discounting it

because they didn't want to piss everyone off.

Okay.

Now people went wild and there was a flood of inquiries coming in after

the Warrens made that statement about demonic possession to the press.

And in response, the diocese of Bridgeport confirmed that they had received

a request for help from the Glatzel family and had assigned Reverend Francis

Virgilac of Stamford to investigate for possible diabolical possession

of the boy, according to the diocese that Reverend had not yet returned

a report on the investigation of the Glatzel family and he had been sent

on assignment out of country shortly before this whole thing.

So he couldn't even be reached for comment.

This was the only statement the diocese of Bridgeport would make on

this case and they said a formal exorcism had never been approved and

had never happened and then they were very silent on the matter.

They would not talk about it again.

Huh.

They were like, nope, probably a good choice.

Now while Arnie Johnson sat in Bridgeport Correctional Center awaiting

his trial, the Warrens kept this story going.

Within a week of the murder, they had appeared on a number of television

shows, radio shows, claiming Arnie's case would be the first in American

legal history in which an accused murderer will argue that he was possessed.

Wow.

Arnie's court appointed lawyer, George Tim, refused to comment on these

claims, but it didn't really matter because he was soon kicked out of

there and was replaced by Martin Manella, who was a young private attorney

who was very excited to work on this case and did it pro bono.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

So on March 19th, a grand jury weighed the evidence and witnessed

testimony and returned an indictment after only 25 minutes of deliberation.

By now, he was being represented by Martin Manella, who seemed to really

be into this media attention.

And following his indictment, Manella announced that he was

intending, he was going to intend to argue Arnie's actions were the result

of demonic possession.

He was ready to go forward with this.

According to Manella, the defense would require, quote, psychic experts

from all over the country and from England, which could be very costly.

So a defense fund has been set up to cover the costs associated with this

strategy.

What about a fucking fund to help?

Oh my God.

I'm just like victims family.

The victims family.

Exactly.

Now, obviously, Martin Manella's defense plan immediately attracted a lot

of attention from the press all over the country.

Why?

They all just wanted to see how this was going to play out in a real

court of law and a trial for murder, remember?

And of course, everyone wondered whether the diocese who are still committed

to being silent on this matter would actually be called to testify or would

have to offer any proof of their participation in the supposed minor

exorcisms of David.

Right.

Manella really played into it, telling reporters, I hope the priests will

have enough moral conscience to come forward.

A choice.

Okay, Glasshouse.

A choice.

Okay, Glasshouse.

Morals, you say.

In a New York Times article, he was quoted as saying the courts have

dealt with the existence of God.

Now they're going to have to deal with the existence of the devil.

I literally must.

This is real.

I that is the thing that is absolutely mind boggling.

Yep.

Now, like Martin, Ed and Lorraine Warren were also very frustrated with

the Catholic diocese refusal to confirm or validate any of their claims.

Ed said the church is acting like they've committed a crime.

And then he said he feared the diocese would quote scatter the priests

involved to the four wins to avoid having them testify.

This is all very theatrical.

Very intense.

Oh, so theatrical.

The most.

Meanwhile, a ton of clergy members were speaking against the case like

actively.

Good.

Pointing out that supposed cases of demonic possession are many times

the result of mental illness requiring an actual doctor and not a priest.

I have to say, I'm kind of surprised that they were impressed.

Yeah, and impressed.

Exactly.

According to the New York Times article referenced above at the time of this

case, a Gallup poll showed 34% of adults believe that the devil is a

personal being who directs evil forces and influences people to do wrong.

34%.

So this was a time when this defense and this kind of panic would have

really been a thing.

It would have really like gotten everybody up in arms.

Do you hear me blinking?

Yeah, blink, blink.

So by the end of March, the case had made headlines everywhere, but not

because of the murder because it's a horrific murder and the tragic loss.

It was about it was gaining attention more because of the Warrens and

Martin Manila and important to note as a point for the skeptics out there

because we're trying to tell both sides here.

Yeah, during the five weeks of David's ordeal, his diabolical possessions

seemed to manifest as it was being told by people in ways that were very

similar to those of one Reagan McNeil from a film, The Exorcist.

Okay.

Interestingly, the family had allegedly watched the film pretty

shortly before any of this had happened.

When you said they saw him levitating on his bed, I was like, oh, did they?

Also, the Glatzels said they were put in contact with the Warrens by that

unnamed priest at their church who is never named, but Debbie Glatzel had

attended at least one of the Warrens lectures before they were involved

in this family's case.

So she was definitely aware of them.

Blink, blink.

All of this is not to say that this is a hoax broad anything else.

You're just telling both sides.

It's just putting more facts into this case just so you can see the full picture here.

Again, doesn't mean anything.

Just interesting.

The church and investigators were staying pretty silent, but the Warrens

and Manila were sharing their story with as many TV cameras as they could get

in front of the Warrens spoke of their close working relationship with

the Catholic Church, told reporters there's a great deal of respect

between us and them, but the church would not confirm or deny this.

And the church said, I don't know her.

They said, I don't know about that.

Also, while the diocese refused to discuss the matter with reporters,

they were willing to tell the press, quote, no, no formal exorcism was ever

asked for or performed.

That's interesting.

Yikes, not asked for.

Yikes.

So in June, 1981, George Kresge, a mentalist who performed under

the name the Amazing Kresgen, he accused the Warrens of praying

on a superstitious public.

And he said, this is all to promote themselves and increase

revenues for their lectures.

And he said, quote, they have an excellent vaudeville act.

It's just that this case more involves clinical psychologists than it does

them. I love vaudeville.

That's hilarious.

The Warrens peers within the paranormal research community also were

very critical of their behavior.

Really?

A paranormal researcher named Robert Pyle said the Warrens

haven't contributed one bit to the settling of pandemonium in this case.

In fact, they may have even caused some of it.

I mean, that I agree with.

I'll say that.

And as for Manila, Manila, the lawyer, his peers in the legal

community were slamming him about this.

A lawyer from Connecticut told the Hartford current Marty Manila.

Manila is handling this case for Marty Manila.

Yeah, sounds like it.

I also saw some pictures that are truly questionable.

Yeah.

David Gallup, a lawyer in Stamford, Connecticut also agreed with this.

He told reporters this case is not being treated seriously by the

legal community.

Lawyers know that it's extremely unlikely that a Connecticut

jury will accept a demon possession defense.

Manila only seemed to gain steam from his haters.

He said, I took this case because I believe in it.

They told Columbus that the world was flat, but that didn't stop him.

Oh, get better.

Wow, my God.

Get better heroes.

It's like when Gilmore girls, when I think it's Rory, when they're like

doing a student like they have to come up with like a royal thing.

Like a kingdom school, like a dynasty.

And I think at one point Rory is like, well, King Henry the 8th did

this, like separated from the church, you know, like made his own church.

And I think Paris is like, yeah, he also beheaded two of his wives.

How much of a role model do you want me to make this guy?

Yeah, exactly.

Literally how we feel about that statement.

I love it.

But the Brookfield Police Department was also receiving dozens of letters

and correspondence, mostly from concerned citizens of Brookfields

who were angry that Manila and the Warrens had used this case to cause

so much chaos in their community.

Yeah, I'd be pissed.

They had never had a murder before.

Wow.

Brookfield, this was the first.

So it was like, this was a sleepy town.

It wasn't like this was, and it was causing a lot of disruption.

Yeah.

Now, in the end, all of this was really for naught because on October 28th,

the first day of Arnie's trial, Superior Court Judge Robert Callahan

refused to allow a defense of demonic possession.

I'm so glad to hear that.

He said evidence of demonic possession is simply not relevant.

And he said his decision came after Manila announced his intent to call

several priests and other experts to stand and prove that, quote,

there is such thing as demonic possession and it does in fact exist.

That isn't what is on trial here.

Right.

And Callahan says he based his decision on the fact that such a defense

could not be reliable and could actually mislead the jury.

It's so opinion-based.

He said it would be incompetent evidence and I would not allow it.

Good for him.

It is.

It's all the opinion-based.

That's the thing and it can't be proved.

Right.

Like there's no tangible thing to prove it.

Now, apparently Manila, which I'm shocked that he shocked, he was shocked

by the judge's decisions to disallow the demon defense, which I'm like,

were you really shocked by that, my guy?

And after asking for a recess to now come up with a new defense strategy,

he went right back to it anyway.

He actually decided to go against the judge and smear his reputation.

He told reporters outside the court he may have to disqualify himself.

And then he accused the judge of prejudice and anti-Catholic bias.

I don't think that's going to help you win the case here, dude.

Like what?

Also, I love it.

Luckily the judge Callahan was not rocked at all by then.

Obviously not.

He stood by his decision to bar the demonic possession thing.

And he also added that even if Manila could prove demonic possession,

which you can't, he said it would not affect the intent of the crime.

And he said any testimony relating to possession would only be rooted

in subjective religious beliefs, not scientific fact.

Yeah.

And there's also no law that says like we can acquit you if you were possessed

at the time of murder.

Where is the separation between search, church and state here?

You can't do that.

Uh-huh.

I feel like there isn't one.

After all of this was done, the case went on pretty normally

because now it's just a murder trial.

Yeah, exactly what it should be.

The prosecutor, Walter Flanagan, presented his case as he always had planned to do,

which was Arnie Johnson in a drunken rage, stabbed Alan Bono in the stomach

four times after Bono allegedly made a derogatory remark about his girlfriend.

Mm-hmm.

The evidence offered in support of this claim was the five-inch folding

knife found at the scene that belonged to him.

He was also known to use it at work.

Like it was his.

Yeah.

It was now covered in blood and hair, matching Bono's blood type.

Well, that's sad.

Incredible witnesses were called by the prosecution.

This included the state's chief toxicologist who testified that Bono,

the victim, had a heavy concentration of alcohol in the blood sample taken at

the time of his death.

A server was also called to testify from the Mug and Munch Cafe.

And they said both Arnie and Alan had been served a large number of drinks on

the afternoon of the murder.

But forensic experts admitted that while Arnie was almost certainly drunk at

the time of the murder, they were like, absolutely.

It was Bono who had consumed a lot more of the wine at the cafe.

Okay.

He was more drunk.

Now, other witnesses included Debbie Glatzel and Arnie's sister Wanda,

who gave their pretty straightforward accounts of the day's events.

There was also some people who reported that Arnie did have previously drunk

and aggressive behavior that they had witnessed.

Well, Debbie said to her father allegedly that that was true.

Now, unable to use that airtight demonic possession defense,

Manila just said that it was self-defense, which is a pretty normal

defense to mount, I would say.

I'm actually surprised he didn't go after the restaurant.

Yeah.

That would have even made more sense than demonic fucking possession.

But I think honestly, the restaurant was like Alan drank more actually.

So I don't think it would help.

But he claimed a drunken Alan Bono instigated a violent confrontation with

Arnie and Arnie killed Bono in defense of himself and his family.

There were claims made that Alan Bono had attempted to grab the youngest Mary

who was nine at the time, like Helter and not let her go.

I don't know why.

Like just during the confrontation had grabbed her and wouldn't let her go.

And this, that's alleged.

Yeah.

But they were claiming this was also what set Arnie off.

Like an aggravating factor.

Which would be an aggravating factor.

That's his nine-year-old niece.

Absolutely.

Or a sister.

Cousin.

But, but obviously we only have the accounts of whoever survived here.

Right.

Go off of.

Nevertheless, Manela still found a way to put in some demonic stuff.

FOMO, like a little bit by calling several local priests as character

witnesses, but when he called them, the judge, Judge Callahan said,

you better tread very lightly with your questioning.

Like he was like, don't even test me, dude.

Melinda, he's also like, I'll just fucking throw the jury out so they don't

hear it like.

But before sending the jury out for deliberation, Judge Callahan did say to

them, they should only consider the evidence presented in court and ignore

anything they may have known about the much publicized demon possession

defense.

Because it had been promoted so heavily before this trial.

Well, and it sounds like even in the media too.

Exactly.

Now, despite the warnings, there was really no way that this jury wasn't going

to be able to think about that a little bit.

I was going to say that.

It was months of like sensational coverage by the Warrens, by Manila,

and just 50 minutes after going for deliberation, they sent word to the

judge that they were hopelessly deadlocked.

I had a feeling you were going to say that.

And in response, Callahan told the jury, he said, I would like you to

remember the Chip Smith charge, which is a Connecticut case in which a

deadlock jury managed to reach a conviction when the jurors and the

minority chose to quote, respect the intelligence of those in the majority

and consider their views carefully.

The jury agreed and they went back to deliberate more.

And 16 hours later, they found Arnie Johnson guilty of manslaughter, not

murder, because it didn't seem like it was planned.

It seemed like it was in the heat of the moment.

It truly did seem like that.

And according to several jury members, their decision on the manslaughter

charge was really due to their belief that Arnie had possibly only intended

to injure Alan and not actually kill him.

Okay.

Which when you look at it, it's a messy situation.

Who knows if that was the intent?

It certainly didn't seem like it was planned out.

No.

It was certainly in a spur of the moment.

Angry, violent confrontation that this happened, which doesn't excuse any of

it, but it's a different situation than straight up first degree murder.

Arnie came back to court on December 18th, 1981 for sentencing and judge

Callahan imposed the maximum sentence allowed under Connecticut State

law, which was 10 to 20 years in prison.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

He said it was Arnie's lack of apparent remorse as his reasoning for imposing

the maximum sentence.

Oh, he didn't seem sorry.

He said, I do not assume the powers of God, but you took a human life and you

showed no acknowledgement of guilt and little remorse.

And as this was said, Debbie Glatzel shouted that's sick and then stormed

out of the courtroom.

Yeah, that is sick.

It's also any remorse.

It's also sick to stab a man four times in the stomach and leave him to die.

And it's also sick to call your dad instead of an ambulance for said guy.

Yeah, but okay, Debbie.

Manella apparently he filed an appeal, of course, on the sentence.

But in March 1982, the appeal was withdrawn at Arnie's request.

Oh, Arnie's defense team released a statement saying Arnie didn't want

to appeal and he consulted with his family and made the decision.

Okay.

So I'll give a little bit of I was going to say.

Now, no longer confined by the restrictions of the Connecticut

Superior Court, the story of Arnie Johnson's supposed demonic

possession definitely grew into a legend now in 1983.

Friends of the Warrens, Gerald Brittle published The Devil in Connecticut,

which was a allegedly non-fictional account of the Johnson case.

The book is interesting.

Her face says something.

That same year, The Devil in Connecticut was adapted into the demon murder

case, which was a made for TV movie, which stars Clois Leachman, Kevin Bacon

and Andy Griffith.

Oh, shit.

So that happened.

Arnie Johnson begins serving his sentence in December 1981 at the

Connecticut Correctional Institution in Summers, Connecticut.

In January 1985, Arnie married longtime girlfriend Debbie Glatzel in a

ceremony at the Correctional Institute.

Beautiful.

Just two months later, Arnie was granted early release after serving

only five years, five fucking years in January, 1986.

The parole boards board cited that he was a model prisoner.

And that was the reason for his decision.

In 2007, Carl Glatzel Jr., the third Glatzel child and David Glatzel, who

was the subject of the demonic possession, they filed a civil suit

against Gerald Brittle and iUniverse Publishing in an attempt to stop them

from republishing The Devil in Connecticut, which the author admits

in court documents is a quote fictionalized account of David and

Carl Glatzel's past lives, but it was being marketed as nonfiction.

Among other things, I guess the suit says that Brittle's book included

considerable false and defamatory subject matter and unreasonably

and seriously interfered with the plaintiff's interest in not having

their private affairs known to others.

Yeah.

Now, according to Carl in the years following the trial, both he and

David were like, they had a lot of difficulty in school.

I would think so.

Yeah.

They were like mocked, shunned and later they had difficulty getting jobs

because of all the notoriety that had come from this whole thing.

That's fucked up.

And it had also exacerbated David's mental health issues.

Of course.

And he was, he was continuing to struggle because in the press.

That hurts my heart.

Didn't give a shit.

So it's like, I feel for them.

That sucks.

And the civil suit also really like deep in the rift between Carl and

David and the rest of the family because David and Arnie maintain

that the story from the warrants is entirely true.

So there's two very different versions of this.

Wait.

So David and Arnie said that it was, they maintained that it was true.

No, David and I might have said David, I'm sorry.

I'm a Debbie and Arnie.

Oh, Debbie and Arnie.

Okay.

So David and Carl are saying this is being highly, you know,

exaggerated.

Right.

There are real issues here that we would like to not continuously

have to deal with.

Yeah.

We'd like them to remain private.

Yeah.

And David and Arnie are saying, cause like the, obviously the details

are already out and there's been several things about it, but they

would just, they're like, I would like it to not be that like I, that my,

my, um, my brother was possessed by a demon.

Yeah.

We do not know what the hell was going on.

You know, like, can we not all just agree that that's what happened?

But then Debbie and Arnie and Arnie are saying that is absolutely

what happened in the warrants are telling the truth.

So Lorraine Warren also was very dismissive of Carl and David's

civil suit.

She said it was ridiculous and she said the book was based on

statements made by the children's parents and she also cited the

involvement of six unnamed priest, the priest as evidence of the

book's legitimacy.

I think six unnamed priests should be a band name.

I think that's a cool band name.

I like that.

Also, it's like, I love that she's sitting there being like, yeah,

well, your parents made statements to this guy and David's like, yeah,

motherfucker, I'm the one that was supposedly possessed.

Yeah.

Like, can you please listen to me?

Yeah.

Unfortunately, in the end, the court ruled in favor of brittle.

Really?

And dismissed the case.

They said, first the subject matter of the book, the devil in Connecticut

concerns the supernatural and demonic possession.

Such matters cannot be proven objectionally true for true or false and

thus are matters of opinion, which unfortunately is true.

Second, an inquiry into the allegations would entail an excessive entanglement

into religious and theological questions in violation of the establishment

clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

But could they not prove that it was defamatory?

I guess not.

And it's like, I feel for them.

I do too.

Cause like, that's really shitty.

That is their life.

Do you know whatever ended up happening to David?

I do not actually.

I hope he's okay.

I hope I didn't look too far into it because I'm hoping he's living a very

normal or was able to live a normal and private life.

And, you know, I'm just hoping that they at least could separate from it.

It makes sense that you didn't look into it because it seems like he wanted

to go and live his life privately.

So yeah, it feels like whatever he's doing now, I hope he's doing great.

Me too.

And Carl and Carl Jr.

And Carl Jr.

I hope they're doing all right.

Wow.

And Arnie is out.

I think Debbie passed away before the conjuring movie came out.

So I know she isn't no longer alive.

Arnie, I believe is and I think he got a job.

So, yeah, I mean, hopefully he led a better life and hopefully he still

feels sorry that he murdered someone.

It's a really sad all around case.

It's sad.

It's, it's strange.

It's confusing.

Yeah.

And I don't think I was ever confused.

Thank you.

I don't think Ed and Lorraine Warren helped this case at all.

I know they caused a big mess and I don't, I don't like it.

No, it gives me gross feelings.

I don't like it.

It gives a yucca taste in the mouth.

Yeah, just and I think a lot of people in the paranormal community don't

like their involvement in this either.

So I think it's, it's kind of like a on them.

A big, a big yucca, but wow.

Yeah.

So that is the conjuring case.

The devil made me do a case.

Interesting case.

It is a sad one because the other thing is to you when you look

into Alan Bono, there's a not a lot about him.

You can't find a lot about his life.

So, yeah, that's like a sad part of it too.

That he kind of got lost in the fray.

Yeah.

And it sounds like he's really young when he died.

Yeah.

He was only in his 40s.

Yeah.

That's so sad.

And he was just, you know, managing a kennel, managing an apartment complex.

His sister owned.

He seemed like a friendly guy.

Yeah.

I don't know about the reports of him grabbing the nine year old.

I don't know what that's all about.

Again, very alleged.

We don't have any proof of it, but, you know, that's why you don't, everybody.

Don't drink that much.

Don't drink that much.

Bad things happen when people drink that much.

And if it doesn't happen outwardly, it's happening inwardly.

Exactly.

That's the other thing.

It's just bad for you.

So don't do that.

I still can't believe that amount of wine.

Yeah.

That's, that's what shocked me like a lot.

Damn.

I had like two glasses and I'm like, woo.

Oh, I have one glass of wine and I will be sick.

Yeah.

Like I can't.

Oh my God.

But yeah.

Wow.

Well, that was a good one.

And as always, we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it weird.

Bye.

But, oh, but not so weird about any of that.

Bye.

Yeah, no.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.