All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg: E132: SEC goes after crypto giants, Sequoia splits, LIV/PGA, Messi's deal + LIVE Q&A!

Hey everybody, welcome to the all-in podcast. I'm your moderator for the week Dave Friedberg

Not the world's greatest moderator. This show is going to be a bit of a shortened version at the back end of the pod today

We actually are going to show some Q&A from Jason's launch summit, which he held in Napa Valley this week great event

Thanks for having us up there

Jay Cal thanks for coming great speakers great content and we did a live Q&A

For the all-in pod with the audience there, which we'll

Transition to about halfway through through the show today. Jay Cal. Thanks for your hospitality. Oh, yeah, thanks for coming

The the fun birthday party the poker night. We had a great time. I still don't know what I was doing there

You were meeting some of your LPs who you'd never met before it was like a dog and pony show

Jay Cal is using us as some sort of dog and pony show to raise money

Taxid you really have LPs there that you had never met. No, yes

Hold on a second. I had one LP there who I have definitely met many times before okay

She told us she'd never met you she wanted an introduction

So maybe she's getting into the spirit of all-in and joking with you

But you had a three-hour meeting with one of your LPs as I heard

Yeah, she said she had like two or three hours with you mother you with us today. What's going on here there, buddy

She was very drunk by the way. He brought up his own wine. He started margaret

He was drunk by the time we got there what he showed up

He was day drinking margaritas in the sun

And then we showed up and he was like falling asleep by the time we were done with the stage

I love you guys

You know by the way politics is one of these incredible things where you see the meanest people

come out of the woodwork when

you

Even feigned support for somebody that they don't support now that it's out there that sacks and I are doing this fundraiser for RFK

Oh, yeah, if you look at Twitter some of like the

the democratic surrogates are out just

smacking me and sacks around and

It's incredible because these people are like the biggest imposter loser clowns

They've never literally done anything in their whole life and then they show up and then they just like how dare you work and help build a company

How dare you help build another company?

How dare you help now fund other companies? I am a talking mouthpiece who's never done anything except work in one administration as a speechwriter

And now I think you guys suck balls. It's like give me a break

So you are you a little kind of emotional about that today

Actually, I love critiques actually because I think like you can learn a lot from critiques, but then when mids just

spew I

Just get annoyed. I think mids should not be allowed to talk. Yeah

Well, that's just my thought there goes half the internet sacks are your Republican

cohort friends

Upset about you hosting a fundraiser for RFK. I've got none of that none of that

That's interesting. What's your take on that? Yeah, do Republicans generally think that it's a good thing

If R. K. Jr. gets the Democratic nomination because he will be easily beatable. I don't think they're thinking that way

I think that there's a

respect

for RFK junior among many Republicans because he's speaking out on issues that they care about like I've talked about he's

Denouncing censorship. He's in favor of free speech. He's in favor of civil liberties and

You know not the this massive surveillance state. He's speaking out in favor of peace instead of war

He's speaking out on the border. He had this amazing video

That was great a couple of days ago where I went to the border in Yuma, Arizona

At 2 a.m. In the morning and he shows he shows where the border wall ends and

Where the border wall ends the line begins and people from all over the world are

Disentering through this hole in the wall in a never-ending stream of people and then they get loaded onto buses

Provided by the government and then they get handed a ticket to supposedly appear in court to resolve their case in three or four years

And they're never heard from again, and they're dispersed all over the country

What I don't understand is if the federal government can get its act together enough to provide buses

Why can't they get their act together enough to plug the hole in the wall? It's absurd

This is like an act of sabotage against the United States. And so he's there just pointing this out

I've never seen anything like this before it was interesting as a as a Democrat to do this because that's typically kind of a Republican

Point right and some of the commentary made about RFK junior

I think it was in the New York Times this week or someone that covered his candidacy one of the big media

companies

highlighted how much of his

Agenda seems to be a Republican talking point agenda. Does that sound accurate?

Even most people in the country who identify as Democrats would be against having an open border

That's what we're talking about when there's a hole in the wall and people can just start forming a line

And then once they get through the line, right? They're literally just put on there basically distributed throughout the country on buses

I don't think most people in the country even Democrats would support that

But what he's violating here is the press blackout on what's really going on at the border

So you're right like the only he went there. Yeah, but other Republican talking points. So the points around the vaccine

I don't know that's a Republican. Well, he's expressed obviously concerns about vaccines preceding the COVID vaccine

I don't know whether he's right about that or not

I'm not willing to say whether he's right or wrong about that because I just don't know enough

I think he's definitely right

About the inefficacy of the COVID vaccine. We've talked about this before even Bill Gates admits now that the vaccine doesn't work

It's too short acting and it doesn't hold up against variants. It's not a vaccine

Let's just it doesn't prevent you from getting the illness. It's a death reduction shot

It was a revenue grab by big pharma

plastered with

non-scientific

Thinking from a bunch of people who should have known better

Wow, okay. I think you just got our

So much for

This is just the truth. Hold on what you must have said is just like the factual reality and

And you can't get that from the mainstream media like there's no re-evaluation. There's no appraisal

They control what we see in here

It's like provda level in terms of the propaganda

And that's why I think rfk jr. Is so interesting is because he is

Blowing up what the mainstream media wants to control the really interesting thing about him going to the border

I agree with sacks is hey

Let's just have a discussion about this and look at the actual facts on the ground that we can agree on

And what he actually did was he pierced the veil of like this is an issue about a certain group of people

He was there and there are people from afghanistan china all over the world coming in

He made the point that this isn't just about one country and that these people are suffering

And that I thought was like another really important highlight

These people are being trafficked. They're you know being abused at the border and that

It's going to cost us 10 million a mile to secure the border

We're talking about it and he's done this with ukraine as well where he emphasizes the humanitarian aspect of it

Yes, and it's a good way of talking about it. And I think republicans should adopt some of that

Be rhetoric and to chumat's point. I think it's it is I think it's a money grab chumat

I do think it lowered death rates

But you know, I do think piercing the veil on this and none of us are still getting boosted because we know they don't

Guys guys, okay, let's keep moving. I'm not debating vaccines and politics. We're moving on. We're going to talk about crypto

So this week the sec there we go serious action

against uh, binance and coinbase

You know pretty significant pretty loud sec filed 13 charges against finance entities and the founders cc

charges include operating unregistered

securities exchanges broker dealers and clearing agencies

Misrepresenting their trading controls and their oversight on the binance us platform and the unregistered offer and sale of securities

The next day they saw it a temporary restraining order to freeze binance's us assets

and then on tuesday the sec sued coinbase

Over their exchange and their staking programs stock dropped 12 percent the sec said that

The company was operating an unregistered exchange and broker and that 13 of their assets listed on their platform were considered crypto asset

securities

Brian Armstrong

Obviously has been on the pod several times said he's not shutting down his staking service and said regarding sec complaint against us today

We're proud to represent the industry in court to finally get some clarity around crypto rules

He's generally made the statement that he has tried multiple times to register with with the sec

They have not had a mechanism for him to register

They have tried to do everything by the book and that the sec

Approved their IPO filing knowing full well the details of their business and their operating model

And still allowed them to go public on a u.s. Securities exchange

Despite full knowledge about their business jamat does anything change this week based on the sec's action or is this just a continuation?

of

You know crypto has been

Um rolled back and will continue to roll back here in the u.s.

Or is this something new and a new action and opens up a new front on the uh the government versus crypto

It's a good question. I think there's two ways to look at this one

Is the conspiracy theorist way which you see a lot of on?

Twitter which is this idea that crypto is making all of these inroads

As a replacement mechanism for fiat currency and so governments are really now invested in trying to shut it down

I think that's

Largely untrue and then there's the more simple basic reality

Which is that there was one part of the sec

That frankly didn't do the job that they were supposed to by either allowing a few of these crypto companies or crypto businesses

To go public either as standalone businesses or as part of other businesses. So coinbase, robin hood, etc

And then there's this part of the enforcement action after this ftx fiasco, which is a lot of cya

Covering your ass by the sec

Especially because it looked like they had some cozy relationships with them

And so they're coming down hard and they're going to go and systematically dismantle

The largest actors and they're going to go through the value chain. So I think the obvious place that they're looking now are

The exchanges they'll look at the custodial services

They will not approve any ETFs

And then eventually I do think it trickles into all of the staking services

And eventually I think it'll touch the venture community and all of those firms and funds

that had a huge robust business

in staking

These crypto projects in order to get coins like founding coins and then being able to sell them

jakel

I mean, I've been talking about this since the beginning because I

bought bitcoin and wrote about bitcoin when it was maybe 25 cents and

Then again when it was a hundred. So I've been following this for a long time and I think

Thinking from first principles to stepping back for a moment

You know what we do in technology is fundamentally disruptive

If it's at its best if it's truly going to be important in the world

And when you hear that word disruption you kind of file it as a buzzword

But what it really means at its core is like competition and it's not just

Competition disruption when you say disruption you're talking about existential competition

Two people go in the ring one person comes out like somebody's going to get really fucked up

And if you people keep bringing up, oh, you're an investor at uber. They broke the rules. They bent the rules

Uber was going against caps airbnb was going against like hotels

We work was going against like long-term real estate leases

When you look at all those disruptive technologies and what they did at their core

they disrupted

on behalf of consumers

And lowered prices increased choice, etc when you get crypto

The crypto crowd literally said we are going to replace fiat currency fiat currency

Is the government and so my thesis from the beginning was if the government has a way to stop this

They do not want to be disrupted. What what is a government at its core?

It's a military. It's a bunch of rules

laws

And it's money

That's the kind of pillars of any government's power

We knew the government wasn't going to give this up

and

You know they they after round and found out but the truth is the and and this is where I have some sympathy for the

crypto people

Not the people who are just committing crime with the hallway and just dumping these bags on retail, etc

But we do want to have this innovation here. There are some innovative aspects to it

But gary gansler said listen, you already have electronic money. It's called money in the united states

We already have these services. You don't need this consumers don't need it and

You have to understand the sec's function in the world to understand why they're taking this action

Their function is to protect investors

Investors lost a bunch of money. Therefore, they are going to retroactively

inflict pain and hold people accountable

for

Their mandate which is to protect investors. You could have easily resolved this the sec

and the

Companies could resolve this the companies could have followed these things as securities and only allowed accredited investors top 5% of the country

People will make over 2 inch k a year

They didn't do that. They said anybody can buy these

well

That's just not how it works in america and it should change

I think everybody should be able to buy any security they want in america just like anybody can go play blackjack

And the easiest solution for this just passed in congress this week

And we'll go to the senate and be a law soon

I think allowing every american the other 94 to take a test and become accredited if that happens

You take a test just like you take a driver's license test. I know what diversification is. I know how risky these are

once you take that 50

Question tests you become accredited and then you can buy these coins if you want to and that's really the easiest path to resolution here

So we don't have brian armstrong move his company to the middle east or

You know an island in the caribbean, which is what he's going to do. I predict so okay. Well, look we've seen

This bill make its way. I think through is it going to the senate next or is it

Going to the senate. Yeah going to the senate next. So let's see if it gets done

I think it's a it's a good point one thing i'll point out

When individual investors were making money

Because all of these asset values were inflating all of the coins were growing and were climbing in value everyone felt good

There was an emergent cry

That we all want to have access to these new instruments

We all have a right to make these investments and to own these assets

And then as the asset values declined and individual investors began losing money

The emergent cry is where was the government to help save and protect us?

And so the sec I would argue was probably

A little bit hindered when the market was inflating in being able to step in and take action because that would have been

Counter to the cries of the retail market

But as the retail market took their their hits

The sec has to step in and congress steps in and everyone starts to say it's time to act

We should have acted sooner and this was you know, fairly predictable. I think what's happening is more nefarious than that

so

The sec is doing two different things. They're they're alleging two different kinds of

Crimes one set has to do with protecting

investors from having their funds

Stolen on these exchanges or at least commingled ftx did that right where they basically took customer deposits and stole them

What binance is accused of is taking customer deposits? Maybe not stealing them but commingling them with company funds

That should be looked at and and I think crypto customers should be protected against that

However, the case against coinbase they're alleging a completely different set of facts

Which is effectively what genzler and the sec are saying is that it is not legal to operate a crypto exchange in the united states

That is what the sec is saying

Because coinbase has basically done everything right and I believe that genzler is far exceeding his authority and stating something like that

It is not up to the chairman of the sec to say that americans should not be holding crypto

Why as a free people should we not be able to buy crypto if we want to

You know, why shouldn't we be able to buy bitcoin now? Maybe you apply rules around

Accredited investor status. There should be protections against

Unsophisticated investors buying stuff or getting defrauded. That's fine. That's the framework that brian armstorm is asking for

but

Everyone should understand what the sec is doing right now is

Basically usurping congressional authority

It should be congress that makes the law if congress wants to ban crypto exchanges in the united states and prevent

The citizens of the united states from owning crypto let congress do it

It should not be up to genzler to do that and the question is why is genzler going this far

When previously he had relationships in the industry apparently

He was a consultant to finance and even worse

He was talking to ftx about giving them some special status and I think the reason is the the scuttlebutt is that

He has an alliance with elizabeth warren and the rumor is that you know

She will make him treasury secretary if he basically destroys crypto in the u.s. Sorry

Where's the evidence for that? That's just someone's rumor and speculation. There's the scuttlebutt in the industry

Okay, so it's someone

This is in fact the back channel. So just to be clear rumor and innuendo is what you're saying

No, look what I would say is clear is that genzler and elizabeth warren have an alliance to destroy crypto in the u.s

This was speculated about before with operation choke point, but now it's clear

They're trying to shut down operation choke point. We've talked about on the show before it was a series of actions taken

What you do when you're in a hotel at night

Operation choke point was a series of actions by the u.s. Government to basically destroy all the on ramps to crypto

So you couldn't get money into the system now

They're going further and they're basically saying it is illegal to operate a crypto exchange in the united states

So genzer

Yes, it is

What they're saying is it's not just the exchange. It's that the exchange contains

Uh, unregistered security. So it's a more nuanced point. I think

Like I agree security. Could you trade?

Well, if it passes the howie test or it is registered and there are people who have actually

They're saying that no crypto passes the howie test. Nope. They're going back on that

You could pass it if you limited it to accredited investors and the fact is

brian armstrong

Binance and a lot of crypto projects refused to exclude

Non-accredited investors and I watch this happen up close and personal

You're right about the unregistered securities thing. They're trying to say that all crypto is unregistered securities

No, no, they said

No, no, they literally they named them sacks in the in the lawsuit. They named the 16 or 13

What was it frieberg?

So they they know how to it was 13. They know how to craft this they're saying for these specific 13

Now the industry does feel you're correct and the back channel is everybody's against us

But if they had just registered these

They were not a problem. I don't think they're gonna

I think wasn't wasn't included in this. He doesn't have a way of registering

They do they don't want to so they claim they don't have a way of registering

They could register it just like we all do when we have private securities

A lot of people tweeting about this that the sec has put out statements saying our door is open come talk to us

There is no open door. There is no one to talk to they have no idea how to get registered

How do you think this is going to get resolved armstrong's talk publicly about going to congress?

To try and get some clarifying law passed. Are you familiar with any of the?

Any of the drafting that might be going on to support his cause here or do you think it's going to get settled in the courts?

First of all, I think I think brian armstrong is is a really really really good entrepreneur

And i'm a really big fan of his

That said, I just don't think that there's a lot of political support

To visit this issue right now

And so unfortunately i'm pretty

skeptical that you're going to see

any form of legislation pass

I unfortunately think that

The sec has by and large put the entire sector into mate and so I think that

What jason said

Is largely right which is that it's going to force these companies to preserve enterprise value to to leave

the united states and to jurisdictionally operate from a different place and to

basically ip block and ip gate us

Residents from using their products and services

I also think that they're going to have to pay large fines

And so the only thing that'll be left is to adjudicate

All of the staking stuff that that happened and whether that was right or wrong right so the court it'll get settled

It'll get decided. I agree with that and I think I think that when you start talking about minutiae like well these

16 cryptos are okay or not okay?

No, look you're kind of missing the point the government led by gensler isn't a full assault on crypto

And the goal is basically to either destroy it in the u.s. Or drive it offshore

Chamath is right about that and the question is why and I think jacow you made the point that progressives like elizabeth warren

see crypto as

Competition to fiat currency and they do not want there to be a competitor now. What is the reason for that?

I think it's because of their radical spending schemes

Remember in the first two years of the bind administration

The progressives wanted a four and a half trillion dollar build back better bill remember

larry summers

told them that you're going to cause inflation and

Even the 750 billion dollars scoped down version that they ultimately passed caused a lot of inflation

And it caused the problems that we have now that we're seeing in the economy

But they wanted four and a half trillion and when people were opposed to and said we couldn't fund this

They were in favor of minting trillion dollar coins

Yeah, so these these are people who don't want any check

On their ability to spend down the full faith and credit of the united states

They would basically spend all the money that we have they would basically eat the seed corn

Or don't have

That we don't have that I think you guys agree we should not be spending

And that is why they're the faction in our political system who are most against crypto

The two things can't be free berg. Hold on. I gotta I gotta respond to two things can be true

One the government doesn't want to give up control of fiat. I agree with that

The second thing that's also true is that this group of people did not want to play by the rules

They knew the rules. They explicitly broke them for profit. That's why they have them dead to rights

You can name this operation choke point. You can brand it. You can put out any conspiracy theory you want

They did have the option

You agree they're trying to run these guys out of business. I said two things can be true at the same time david

This is a tolerance for ambiguity being able to hold two thoughts at the same time

Let me give you let me give you a and they don't want to give up control fiat. That's what's happening

That's the rule. You have to follow the security. You have to only allow credit

You said that coinbase was a good actor

I believe they have good intentions. Yes. I don't believe the other people do

I do believe that coinbase is in violation of the law

I believe the securities they're trading are in violation of the law and that's obvious if you but I believe that law should change

Let me give you a cure point are

Securities, okay, jay cal. Let me give you a third point and sacks

elizabeth warren she may be motivated by the intention to preserve

the authority of the fiat

But is it not also possible that a large number of people lost a lot of money?

That they worked hard for and they used to buy crypto assets

And then the value those assets went down and those people lost a lot of value

I had there was a group of guys that are house painters that painted my house

Two summers ago and they painted the whole house. They were here every day for hours every day

so I got to speak to these guys

And these these guys were house painters, you know, they they work for an hourly wage

They do fairly well, but every lunch break every break they got

All that they would talk about with one another was what cryptocurrency they're buying and trading in and out of

With the whole intention of making money

They all believed that they had a good point of view because they read something on the internet or got some tweet

Or got some text or saw something on tick talk about this one

Crypto asset or this crypto asset and they were trading in and out and all of the money

That these guys worked hard for was being invested in crypto assets. You're right. That set of facts is not great

However, I don't think that's the motivation. I think the motivation is to basically end crypto

As a potential competitor to fiat money in the united states

That's the motivation and they're going to use those fact patterns to basically build public support that because look

Because we could handle that. Okay. We could do the accredited investor test

There should be a framework or set of guidelines under which it is legal for people to buy

And hold or trade crypto in the united states and that's all that brian has been asking for

Is give us a framework and genzer is not giving a framework. He's just trying to basically put them out of business

Okay, look, I think we've gone around this topic. This has been a great conversation. I'm going to move forward

to the next topic which I think is

Really interesting

in the vein of both

De-globalization but also, you know the scale at which venture firms have gotten to sequoia decided

This week and announced publicly that they're splitting off their china and india slash southeast asia funds

as you guys

Obviously, no sequoia capital is a venture capital firm and within that firm they manage multiple funds

Some of the funds that they've raised and managed have been

Specifically targeted in china where they have 56 billion dollars. I don't know if this number is accurate

But that's an incredible number

56 billion dollars of assets under management focused just in sequoia china

and then they have a sequoia india fund

Which has about four billion dollars of capital raised in just the last

Three years and now they are separating the management company and the oversight of those funds

Into separate management companies. So sequoia

Capital will no longer oversee those china funds

A new firm has been formed called sequoia china

That is now owned and run by a separate management team based in china

And sequoia india is now called peak 15 partners, which is owned and operated by a separate team of managers out of india

Roll-off botha will manage the u.s. And european sequoia capital

Neal chen will oversee sequoia china and chelendra saying neal chen. I'm sorry neal chen

And chelendra sing will oversee sequoia india

I guess this is a question of did sequoia get too big or are they caving to pressure?

Of the political issues arising with having deep relationships and ties with china

Or as they have said a lot of competition between these different portfolios and companies within these portfolios amongst each other

Chamath, what's your read on the action? Is there anything to read into this and anything to extrapolate from it?

Well, it's been a parade of missteps for sequoia in the last couple of years and

I'll let sequoia figure out who to blame for this. But the reality is

they

I think felt a lot of fomo post softbank

They raised this large mega fund that kind of straddled all of the sub funds and straddled all of the regions and so

They dangled the carrot of trying to get into the early stage us fund by investing in this big mega fund that also had china and india exposure and growth exposure

Then they tried this like

very convoluted evergreen

Structure right before the market fell apart where you could basically become a permanent capital vehicle and

As far as I can tell from the outside looking in

it just seems like a

taxed tax play for the gps to not have to

sell and realize capital gains

But that only works when the stock market keeps going up, which it didn't and then it's summarily

Crushed tax stocks 80 or 90 percent. So that was a misstep

And then when you put all these things together

Now that china is contracting and we've said this before I think china is largely uninvestable

For the next 30 or 40 years

It just makes sense to jettison

Now I will say though that neil shen is elite if you consider

In investing I would say I have a simple rubric

Anybody who's made more than a billion dollars for themselves as an investor. I consider elite neil shen is elite

And so he'll do just fine

Running that sequoia

china business

I was surprised about why they would allow

India to leave there's nobody that elite at sequoia india by that rubric

But india is a country growing at six percent a year. It literally looks like china in 2008 and nine

And so i'm not sure why you would let them leave

I think that you would want to attach them to yourself because it makes the u.s. business look better

You probably gets differentiated and smoothed out returns

But I think this is a little bit of a view of of competition chumat that there was competition between the different portfolio companies

And it was leading to conflict but

I mean that's dumb that happens in the united states

Sequoia has always been known to fund everybody that they think will make money no matter how much they compete no matter where they are

So when they back when they back youtube and moritz was sitting on the board at google and sure

Look sequoia sequoia as an organization is elite. They're there to make money for their lps period end of story

And so all of the other words that can go in any press release

Basically, I think try to hide the fact that this is an organization that's had some missteps

They're not on solid ground. They've lost a lot of money and they are trying to figure out what to do next

I however if I was running that organization would have probably done nothing

And just let the dust settle

And I think that all of these actions are too close together and it's a little bit to me

Of flailing in the water and so I don't think it was a good idea

To let india leave. I think it made a ton of sense to cut china

But I think all of this stuff happened started happening a few years ago

Starting with that eight or nine billion dollar mega fund that they raised to try to compete with softbank

sacks any read on this

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a example a prominent example of decoupling and de-globalization going on

So I agree. We have to treat india and china separately with respect to china. I just think it's become

harder and harder for americans to do business in china

Both because we don't really have the visibility into that system

And there's too much political uncertainty. So kind of to chamois point about it being

Increasingly uninvestable, but I also think that geopolitical concerns. It's just very hard to straddle

Those concerns now because the geopolitical competition is heating up so much

I think it's investable for people like neil shen who are insiders in that system

So I think you know elite chinese investors can I'm sure make money in china over the next few decades

But I think it's just too hard for americans to figure that out. So I think

Them parting ways makes a lot of sense. I think it's going to simplify sequoia's life a lot

India I

I agree with chamois that that's sort of a different question because india is going to be a huge growth economy over the next few decades

And they are a us ally

So it doesn't pose the same geopolitical risk

But my guess is that it was just kind of unwieldy

that

it's too unwieldy to

kind of merge funding sources and firm management

Across two firms that are really pretty different right the us acquired firm and then this indian firm

So my guess is they just decoupled because it was just getting too hard to manage

And if you're an lp, don't you just want the ability to say, okay? I'm going to allocate this much money to india

I'm going to allocate this much money to the us. I think lp is probably like it too sequoia china is frankly over the last

15 or 20 years as good and probably is numerically better than sequoia us

So that was an elite organization just by itself sequoia india

I don't think has much to talk about and so maybe what roll-off decided is this team is just not very good

So we might as well just cut it and we can revisit it later

They probably have some number of years of a non-compete and then they could come back into the market five years with a totally new team

And that may be easier

So it may be easier just to just maybe the team actually wanted to be separate

Look, it's hard to cross returns from two totally different funds, right?

Because one side one side's gonna be unhappy with the trade, right? Yeah, that's right

I can give you the jcal's got actual information to share

Well, no, I mean, I have the closest I think I have the closest

Investor in your company, right jcal. Well, I'm an lp and their funds and they're printing money for me

They back my second startup rule offs on the board of that company is still with me and I was their first scout

When they started the scouts program, which is the highest

Percentage performing fund. I think they ever had sequoia is 20. You're our you're our resident captain america. So as a patriot

How do you feel about the well they are put that aside?

Sequoia is 20% of the nasdaq. This is the greatest venture firm of all time hands down and the sequoia fund

Which chamath referred to companies. They've invested in

Companies are 20% of the nasdaq

And so the reason the sequoia fund came out this evergreen fund

was because a lot of their lps wanted

sequoia to manage the public equities

Going forward because they didn't want to sell them because they realized bullshit that

The massive gains the gains from google

apple, etc of these

Investments that they did when they were private companies sisco the gains from public forward were greater than the gains in private

And i've been in on these presentations. I've sat through them

with the sequoia team and so

When you manage those public ones, we've all talked about the denominator problem here

The denominator problem is hey, are they venture returns or are they part of the public equity?

So at a giant endowment they want to put them into the equities bucket get them out of the venture bucket

And sequoia are an opportunity there to manage this evergreen fund

I'm sure there are tax advantages to it, of course

But with relation to what they did in china and india these these were incredibly

prescient and

innovative things they did in 2000 and 2005 when they started india and then china was 2005 i believe

They found domestic teams you need domestic teams to do this properly especially in places with different governance and different regulations

And it gives them autonomy. They were incredible investments

But what's happening right now is

All venture investments because of ai and chips and the decoupling with china are now under massive scrutiny

So they can say there's brand confusion. You can talk about

You know the collisions and who's going to back this chinese entrepreneur and indian entrepreneur who also is operating in the us

Right these businesses operate in the u.s. And so what really is happening?

Is the government is going to stop all u.s. Venture investing in china?

That's what's going to happen in the coming months

And so they're just getting ahead of that and now they will compete

And it really has to do with chips and ai you may have seen some of these stories

And nobody's going to invest your if an american invest in ai in china

That's going to be banned and the same with chips

Yeah, you're right

There are a bunch of stories about whether u.s. Investors should be investing in ai in china and people are saying this was

Unamerican because it was basically going to give china an advantage against us in this key industry

And i think that point is a good example of what i'm talking about with the geopolitical concerns

It's just getting too complicated. Yes for americans to invest in china

It raises too many geopolitical concerns and i think sequoia is massively simplifying its life

By just splitting these things up and being out. Did you see keith for boys tweets on this? Yeah, that's what we're referring to

Yeah, keith for boy tweeted basically like it's unamerican to invest in china at this point

Yeah, we've talked about this before i mean look the the chinese relationship primarily used to be seen

As an economic relationship and people are looking for win-win

Basically trade scenarios and it was not seen as a moral to invest in china

Now the relationship is primarily seen through a geopolitical lens, which is to say the balance of power

Which is a zero-sum game

It's about you know, how much better is the u.s. Doing how much more powerful is it than china and anybody who's perceived

As helping china in that rubric now is looked on skeptically within united states about that

Well, like i said, i don't think that's going to change

So i think sequoia is doing the right thing to kind of like i said simplify its life

But what's your personal opinion i'm curious

i think that

It should be possible to do business with china without it being seen as either unpatriotic or immoral however

There are strategic

technologies that are just going to be i think

It's too hard and too risky

To um to be supporting china and chips and ai

Yeah, i mean look if somebody is using chinese manufacturing to make toys or clothes

I don't think that's fundamentally

strategic in a geopolitical way

but

if you're helping them make

The next generation of chips

That's going to raise a lot of questions

So so a vc firm freerberg can't take out chips and ai from their investment hold on hold on

I want to say something because sure this reminds me of when benchmark actually had benchmark europe and then they cut it

Do you guys remember that yeah, i do yeah and kind of retrenched they weren't retrenching from a position of strength

They were retrenching to reestablish themselves after a bunch of missteps

so i think typically these retrenchments happen when there's a little bit of internal chaos and

Mismanagement and underperformance. That's not the case here. I can assure you

Yeah, but i actually think retrenching is good because it simplifies things

You want to simplify yours? Yeah, i i totally agree with you my point is when i saw

That overlay fund i was like this is questionable

But then when i saw that weird evergreen fund that to me just seemed like a tax arb

And i thought to myself as a person who's looked at this exact stuff for my own stuff

What i did was i just converted it to a family office

And from a tax perspective it was much simpler

But that exact same structure i looked at for myself and the reason that that structure exists and jason

I know you want to think it's because these endowments want them to manage public equities

I still work with a few endowments and pension systems. They don't and the reason they don't is they're not allowed to

They're not allowed for concentration purposes. They pay other people to manage it

They have these outside consultants and for fiduciary perspective

You have to do all of these things with respect to managing risk and one of the most obvious things that these foundations do is

They get distributions and they sell they don't hold and so the reason why you'd want to look at the

Long-term gains of a stock that you distributed is because the gp sold too early

Not the lp

And i just don't i'd think that you should not just be a blithe surrogate on this topic and actually really think about it

Well, i mean, i don't think you need to well i'm not i'm not and you know square if you look at something like that

You know rule off still on the border square, i believe so they sequoia has realized over time

You know as it's been explained to me as an lp

That you know these companies grow

The outliers continue to grow massively when they become public

And sequoia is now staying on the board of those companies

And so they actually have the most insight into it because they backed up when it was two people

And then they're still on the board. That's not the point money is not infinite

And if you're a foundation and you're legally obligated to distribute some percentage every year

You need the money back and the foundations do get to choose

Some foundations want to go along harvard or whoever i'm just picking you know one of the large ones

If somebody's got 30 40 billion dollars, they may not need to liquidate that and they might very much

I'm just i'm just telling you the only person that is in a position to actually hold for the long term because it's so tax advantageous

Is the gp

That is why that fund was created and i will bet you

If you ask him under oath

Why they did it?

I'll tell you it was for themselves

Like i will people have the choice a million dollar for charity whatever you want to do

I bet you if you put him under oath and you say p&m and you ask him why he did it

He'll say he did it for himself and that's fine

All i'm saying is that's the kind of complexity that sacks is talking about that does not add to success

It is over-complexifying something that doesn't need to be complicated

Yeah, i disagree with you, but we can just move on. Well, we agree to disagree sometimes here on the all-in podcast

We're gonna move on for our last topic of the day with the

Announcement. Can we talk messy? Can we talk messy? No, no, no, we're not because we're gonna do one last topic which i think is

Pga and messy go together. Yeah, so let's just talk about the pga. Let's do messy in the pga

No, we don't have time guys. I appreciate the messy interest, but we're gonna talk about something less messy or even more messy

Who cares?

I actually think it's pretty interesting for a couple of reasons

So as you guys know the pga tour has been around since 1930

I think the pga tour makes 1.6 billion dollars a year if reports are correct

I make 1.6 billion here boring. I mean depends on the year

All of the players on the pga tour

Are independent contractors. So, uh, saudi arabia's public investment fund

And this is what I think is one of the more interesting aspects of this story

And maybe speaks to a broader kind of set of geopolitical

Transitions that are underway the saudi arabian public invention

Public investment fund started liv golf as an alternative to the pga tour live golf

Live golf they invested two billion dollars of of capital and offered

Guarantees to golfers to come and get on their tour. They ended up

offering at one point tiger woods reportedly got a 800 million dollar guarantee

To join their tour which he turned down phil michelson got a reported 200 million dollar guarantee

Which he took to join the tour. Hideki matsuyama got offered 750k 750 million which he turned out

So seven of the 10 top paid golfers in the world actually signed up

And um, it caused obviously significant disruption to what has effectively been a monopoly

Which is the pga tour in golf in professional golf

And uh, here we are two years later and it was announced this week

That live and pga are merging and the current pga tour commissioner jay moinehan will serve as ceo of the new entity

Just by way of reference jay moinehan makes a reported 14 to 15 million dollars a year in salary as ceo

of the pga tour

He will now be ceo of this combined organization

One big question mark is how much is he getting paid and did that help?

Secure and solidify this deal getting done

But I think another big question is do we think this will actually close?

Will this face regulatory and antitrust scrutiny?

Will this face sypheus because it is the saudi arabian public investment fund that is effectively taking a large stake

in the pga tour

Let's go to our resident professional sports team owner or former minority owner chimoth

Any takes on

On this announced merger. What does it say about the pga's ability to hold action?

This is what's so crazy about your topic selection

Messi was offered 1.6 billion dollars personally by the saudi's and you don't want to talk about that because you want to talk about a

Whole organization playing an antiquated sport that itself generates

1.6 billion dollars

Welcome to being the moderator

What's your point?

I don't care about golf. I don't care. The reason this is so controversial

is

That they're calling it sports washing trying to make the reputation of saudi more palatable in the west by

Using sports things people love

The reason this has become controversial is because of the hypocrisy of it the pga fought against live

and

This guy j mohanahan who is the CEO of this?

He basically evoked the 9 11 families and went on a whole thing about how evil live was

Only to then secure the bag and then there's some backchamber here about

Well, there was a lawsuit between the live golfers, you know

Who are now banned from playing the pga when they signed up and antitrust stuff and so

The hypocrisy of the group is what's being pulled into question here chumad. This is why it's important because

The the players who took the money were ostracized

As supporting an evil regime

And now it's clear that they were smart and tiger should have taken the money

And actually the guy who said as much at the time was was trump, you know, he

You know, he's one of these. Yeah, he nailed it. It's like one of these

Once again

Once again, he's

He's basically said that take the money from live because eventually live in pga are gonna merge and then the guys who stuck with pga

Are gonna get nothing and they're gonna feel like idiots. He was totally right

He split the arrow again. Come on. Come on. You don't think that that's insane. I mean, come on. It's pretty amazing

Tell me when you get to messy

And the fact that these guys were proclaiming that if you're gonna go join this tour, you're joining, you know

You're lining up

I don't understand whether I don't understand whether you're naive or dumb

This is like about money. It's always about money professional sports has always been about money

What what what are we what are we talking about?

Money money money money money. There's your answer money drove the answer money drove the split money drove the deals

Now money drove the merger. I don't understand. Can we talk about messy? Please? It's so much more interesting

Okay, go talk about messy chamath

I mean the messy thing is so incredible

Because christianna ronaldo

Went to a team in saudi

To play in the august of his career the last two or three years

And this has been a thing that started with pelle in the 70s pelle came to the new york

cosmos and played

Beckham famously did it as well came to the la galaxy

But beckham did this one interesting thing which is he said, okay, i'm gonna come to play in the mls

On one condition really which is i'll take a huge pay cut and all of this stuff

But i want an option to buy an expansion team for 25 million bucks

Fast forward he ended up buying inter miami

That team is now worth 585 million dollars

So messy is 36 years old. He's about to enter the august of his career. He's won everything. He's done everything possible

He is so incredible. I mean, I love him

I love him

He gets offered 400 million dollars a year for four years to go playing saudi arabia a 1.6 billion dollar deal

And you know, there's no income tax here. So that's like 1.6 billion dollars right in his pocket

Except the deal that he did

Which was for a lot less upfront

is really interesting

He basically said i'll come to the united states and play in inter miami

for for the miami football club

but

I am

You know, basically i'm not sure he said this so i'm using my own words. I'm the greatest player in the world

Every time I do something magical on the field

I'm creating content that will sell tickets and create brand awareness and move the interest level of soccer in the united states

i'm a content creator

So I want a piece of this content

and so apple

Who signed a two and a half billion dollar 10 year license for the mls said you're right

You're probably going to sell more subscriptions for me. I'll give you a piece of the rev share

And then adidas said you know what you're right. You're probably going to sell more shoes for me. I'll give you a piece of those shoes

So in one fell swoop. I think what's amazing is

Messi is not an athlete in this deal. I think going back to a theme that we've talked about a lot is

he is this

Ultimate pen ultimate whatever he's an elite content creator. He's the equity

Who is now creating?

Incredible who will come to the united states to create this incredible content that will move viewership move merchandise

And he's going to monetize that

So it's effectively like becoming the jordan brand getting a piece of netflix all in one

He has the equity in those businesses basically. Yeah, this is subtle point shaman's making in the deal

You have the person who's responsible for distribution. So this would be the same as like the nba on abc

espn or tnt and tnt or espn saying, you know what you're so important lebron james to play in this or stef curry

We're going to give you a piece of the subscriptions to espn

So apple is giving him rev share on their apple tv league pass for mls

That's nuts like and this is I think it goes back to the live

Deal with pga, which is people are looking at these sports leagues and saying let's get creative

It goes back to a different one the the nba just signed a new collective bargaining agreement that they're going to ratify

I always thought that the real thing that the nba players association should be asking for equity

Was equity? Yeah, and that equity could be phantom equity in the teams because it's clear that in the absence of the players

There's no viewership and there's no appreciation in the value of those franchises

And so the idea that lebron

You know stef

drae kd

Don't own a huge piece of the underlying equity gains that they're creating in the period in which their players is pretty crazy now

The ownership their perspective is while we translate that

In terms of rev share, but it's really not true because if you look at the

Kager the irr of the franchise values versus the kagering of the salaries. They're not equivalent

Yeah, so I just think it has huge implications

To all the professional sports leagues because these big stars

Should be asking their agents and their managers. How do I do a deal like messy? I am the ultimate content creator in my league

The dynamics are changing it will it will no longer be an employee capital labor situation

But capital is merging with labor

And labor labor is basically becoming the equity in the equation and they are getting a piece of the business

Just like and that's all about and we're and by the way the reason we see it happening so much

Is because of the social media age and it's really incredible. It's but one thing guys

J.K. I know you have more to say we all have more to say. I just want to highlight. I need to go

I have to go to a kindergarten graduation. Congratulations

Congrats. I'll close the shuff you. I love you guys. I'll see you later. Adios. Love you guys. Congrats to your kid

Thank you. Bye. Well, what's really interesting

Chamath to your point about the cba is they're going to make these huge salaries

They're not going to give them the equity as part of

their

Five-year deal they make the money

They then have the ability to invest in a team

So you could be LeBron and you could be investing in the nicks

Maybe if somebody wanted to sell a percentage of it you can invest in any nba team

Any sports betting team any sports betting? I actually think there's a simpler way to do this

Which is it's I think it's fair to say that when you join a team

It's like joining a company. Yeah, and you can create shadow equity and that shadow equity says you came in at this point

Right, you left at this point

Here was the delta of the value and I think a good agent should be negotiating on behalf of a player

Most players will not get that much a few basis points of that value

Yeah, but the idea that a LeBron James can go to a miami and double the franchise value double

Yeah, right from you know one or call it

Or step step steps a better okay great stuff comes in at 480 million and is now 5.3 billion

So that's a 10xing plus of value

You know is step responsible for 10 or 15 percent

Should a billion dollars of that go to step dre and clay. I think you can make a great claim that it could

Yeah, absolutely put them on the map. So yeah

It would be and it would be pretty easy to do and what this might do is keep people on the same team longer

Which is what fans want exactly why people moving around that's a great point and private companies like cargill or coke industries

They have these shadow equity programs that they've had for years for decades that they've run on behalf of their employees

So we know how to run

Phantom equity programs in private businesses

And I just think the leadership of the nba players association the nfl players association

Is right now still lacking the sophistication

To understand this well enough to then propose

When the next time it is to to negotiate this kind of a deal, but when you see things like this messy deal

I think it's a game changer. It is a game changer. And I think for sports

I don't know if you saw

Adam silver gave you know a little press conference with the finals and everything and he was talking about the jay moran

Moran situation with the guns it's just a lot of like topics coming up

But one of the topics that was probably under appreciated was he was talking about the bundle the cable bundles going away

And that people can't watch like the tnt

nba on tnt whatever that is with you know, charles barkley, etc

and

He wants that to be available for free

So he's going to challenge people the new tv deal if you want to have the nba

You have to have it available to everybody because the number of people who can see nba games has been going down

I have a question for you because it's more people

Do you think more people would pay for a subscription to watch the nix games?

Wherever they happen to be all over the world or a subscription to watch step hurry no matter what team he plays on

The old generations are loyal to the teams the new generations loyal to players

So it's a generation numerical numerical question. Which one's great. It's probably

A jump ball right now, but it will eventually be the follow the players

Because this new generation follows players like our kids like

I don't think brawn from I think I think I think you could probably sell

A few hundred thousand subscriptions to the nix and I think you'd sell mid millions for step

What's going to happen now is I think they're going to they just want this to be ad-based and to directly subscribe

So I directly subscribe to the nba. I get every game for 200 dollars a year with no ads

You know what we should do. I actually have a great idea. What we should do is we should what lived did to the pga

We should do to the nba. Let's get together 20 billion dollars

Let's start a competitive nba league where we give the players all i'm serious a structured phantom equity plan

Pay these guys a hundred million bucks a year get all the big guys to come everybody else will come

And just blow the whole thing might open by the way

That's the blueprint now if you want to really compete with the with the nfl or the nba or the nhl

This is what you should do put together 20 or 30 billion, which is not that much money

And go for it. You only need to get a couple of stars to to blow it up

And if you give stars the equity in the league they'll convince all the other players to come

All right, let's give sax some red meat here. You sax will give you a little red meat. You want tucker on twitter

Here's your red meat choices as we wrap you want tucker on twitter

you want

a russian controlled dam being destroyed for a major flood

or

Do you want chris christie joining the race? Which red meat would you like?

Which red meat we put in front of crazy here

Well, I mean what's happening ukraine is really the big news this week. I mean

The ukraine encounter offensive has started in urnist

And yes in conjunction with that you had the destruction of that major dam

Which it's not clear who did it. I mean both sides are pointing the finger at each other

so and there are

reasonable arguments for why either side may have done it in terms of who benefits it seems to benefit

the ukranians more because

the destruction of the dam washed out a bunch of russian defensive fortifications and

villages of russian speakers

on the other hand

The russians were in control of the dam

So it would have been easier for them to carry it out

If they had wanted to we just don't know but I think you know events have now moved beyond that

And we are now probably in the third or fourth day of of the ukraine encounter offensive

Of course has not been officially declared, but there is

major major fighting happening now where

ukrainian armored divisions are seeking to

You know penetrate russian defensive lines around zapparizia

And so the long awaited ukraine encounter offensive has certainly begun

how does the

The dam relate to the nord stream pipeline because these are both situations where people are like who actually did it

What's their motivation and let's face it these are

chaotic actors at times

And figuring out who has the motivation to do these things

Seems like a leveling up kind of game because you can't put it past either party in some cases

but in the case of nord stream

People saying hey, it was the ukraine

But then there's this argument that the ukraine is not capable of doing it

Or maybe it was sanctioned by the us or the west and then executed by ukraine

Where do you wind up with all these so on on nord stream?

We're now on our third cover story

The cia sourcing their stenographers at the washington post have now claimed that it was six ukrainian dudes in a yacht

Who blew up nord stream?

No, seriously, and if you look at this boat i'll put a photo of the boat on the screen. It's it's pretty silly

Yeah, the ukrainians do not have a navy and they certainly don't have navy seals

I don't believe they have the capability to

By the way, this destruction of nord stream nord stream was this huge underwater steel and concrete

Structure it's not that deep though because it's only a 150 or 200 feet deep at the lower points

It's deep enough and it took a lot of explosives so they had to know what they were doing

So i i dove 120 feet once so it's but the point is that when when nord stream was first destroyed

The media rushed out to say well the russians did it even though the russians had no motive to do it

It was their pipeline as they're a pipeline. They could just turn it off. They wanted to

But this is what we hear is that every time something destructive happens. It's the russians did it

Why would they attack themselves because they're so crazy? We heard this with nord stream

When belgarad, which is a russian district just across the border from ukraine was attacked

It was claimed that the russians did it these were russian insurgents. No, that's pretty silly

It was ukrainians dressed in russian uniforms and just recently when they were drawn to attacks on moscow

We were also told that oh it wasn't the ukrainians who did it was

russian dissidents or something which again makes no sense

so this is not to say that

The russian didn't blow up that dam is just to say that

Whenever the story is rushed out that the russians did something highly destructive you have to

We need to see some evidence here and we just don't know it's just hard to know the fog of war is thick

All right, what did you think of tucker's first

Showed and he's getting sued but he got

The tweet got at least like 90 million views, which means the video probably got 10 of that or something

So probably video yesterday was at 17 million views or something like that. So i'm sure it's more today

So no, he's getting huge distribution through twitter. Arguably. It's more distribution

That's almost certainly more distribution than he got through fox fox was three million, right?

He had that's how many viewers he gets on fox. Yeah, well fox is half of that now because they've

They've attributed so much viewership after tucker left

But look the only thing that I think tucker got through fox was access to frankly a viewership base

That's not very online

There are a lot of old people who watch fox who just aren't on social media. That's it though

Everybody else can see it on twitter and he's getting more distribution on twitter

Super distribution is the way to go

He's going to get

25 million people of course monetizing it is the hard part because

fox is subscription revenue and

Everything else is apparently he's creating a list. Um, you know, he advertised the website tucker crossin dot com at the end of his

Video and you can go there and sign up for you can subscribe direct and get it on his website

Well, I don't think he's monetizing it yet, but you can sign up for alerts and so forth

So he's clearly creating a list of some kind

That's probably because he yeah with his contract. He's still getting paid and so he's like

Daily wire is the model. I mean they they have got well over a hundred million in revenue

I understand and they have a massive subscription business. So there's a clear path. All right. Hey, listen for the

world's greatest moderator

living in the bay area, uh, david freeberg and

The dictator himself chamomile apatia and the architect hosting any number of fundraisers for any number of politicians

David sacks the rain man. I am the world's greatest moderator taking a week off

We'll see you next week. Oh and uh, enjoy some q&a here from the live angel summit hundred people in napa

Thanks for coming besties. I appreciate you. Uh, love you boys. I love you besties. See you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye

All right, welcome to a baptism

John the Baptist

Are you ready to accept christ freeberg into your soul?

I honestly have no idea what i'm doing here. I've

I have no idea who these people are or

What this is or why you're all wearing white

I mean, seriously, I'm sure you're very nice people, but I have no idea what this is

Have you seen the wicker man jay cow is like we're taping an episode in napa and i'm like what?

On a you know off day. What was this monday? Today's monday. It's monday. Are you okay, buddy? Yeah

You low blood sugar. Yeah, actually, I do bring us like a cheese plate or something

And guacamole and chips

Please but honestly like I didn't sign up for this. I thought we

I thought we disagreed to a podcast and somehow we've been roped into doing some dog and pony show for jay cow's LPs

By the way, is that true or what? These are a bunch of your LPs as well. You just have never met them

Literally, okay, I'll drink it. Yes. Yes, sir

Literally somebody's like jay cow. I'm with this incredible endowment. We're incredibly successful. I'm like, oh, that's great. Yes

You heard I'm raising a fund. They're like, no, no, no, no

We heard uh sax is gonna be here. I'm like, yeah, you want to meet him invest in this fund? Oh, no

We've invested in all his funds. We just never met him

And I said, wow, that's one way to do it. That's how successful sax is pretty funny two things

They've never seen sax and a distribution

That's a hot start

Great fucking decision, whoever you are. You're a real fucking genius back there

Except for the fund we already paid back

Oh my god, I lost control of it in the first 90 seconds

Why should tonight be any different except for the five-year-old fund that's already fully returned

Of course. All right. Whoa. Easy. So, uh,

Welcome to the angel summit. Uh, these are my besties. We do a podcast called all in. We thought we'd do it live. This is the

Fourth time we've ever appeared on stage together

The first two times we're at freeberg's lp conference in the persidio. Yeah

I resented that one too

We know you are first time coming out to see humans

It came out in his mask. He took his gloves off

It was very uncomfortable for him, but he eased into a seat and then of course we did the all-in summit last year in miami

And this is the fourth time. So it's great to be out here. We have a couple of news items on the docket

We could start with or we can go right to q&a

With these many audience members who have a lot of questions. What would you gentlemen like to do?

Jamath has a few words. He'd like to say go ahead

Oh, what do you guys want to do? Jamath is drunk, by the way. He texted us

You can see that grin on his face. That's the Jamath grin. He gives when he decided

Like x capital scheming that he would not have lps and he would just invest his own money. He does not care

So it's the gloves are off. Let's do q&a. Jay Levy's is sacks. What's the path for desantis to win the nomination?

Um and get the base of trump. Oh red meat. Oh good. How about red meat? Here we go?

Here we go. I think the path basically is he has to win iowa and or new hampshire. Is this that simple?

But keep in mind that trump did not win iowa last or in 2016 tech crews did

Iowa tends to be more religious. Um, I think santis is trying to

outflank trump on the right actually on certain issues

And um, so he's on the ground there campaigning. I from what I understand he's generating a lot of interest and enthusiasm

And he's going to keep plugging away at it. I think he's going to out hustle trump

I'm not saying he's going to win, but I think he's is going to work harder

And the path would be that over the next what is it like nine months that trump's

Style and message which is admittedly much more entertaining than desantis, but kind of fatiguing

whether that kind of gets old and

desantis is more

Like discipline messaging people just kind of wake up and say, you know what like I don't really want to go back to the

chaos of

Of the whole trump show at this seems like

Better to me

so, um, that's basically what I think has to happen is trump fatigue has to set in and

People realize that there's a different was that cnn town hall assigned that

Some group of people find him incredibly entertaining and the media themselves want him back because it's great for ratings. I'll uh,

Menkin on session or

Is it a sign that like my god, that's so fucking exhausting like you're saying sacks. What do you think?

I think that the the base like the town hall because it was trump walking into the lion's den standing up to the

Mainstream media, which is what they like, but I don't think it did anything to help them in the general because I think that

viewers who

Don't like trump or aren't entertained by trump. I mean there's nothing there to really grab on to I don't think

So, um, but but look, I think your point about who does the media want to get the republican nomination?

Definitely trump because he's good for ratings

And it really is that simple and they think they can beat him

So right now the biden people the trump people and the media all

want

Trump over disantis and that is why like disantis is getting dispatched by everybody right now is because

You know everyone's kind of aligned on this but the minute that trump gets the nomination

It's all going to turn the media all of a sudden is going to turn on trump

And then we're going to see what the real campaign is going to be about disantis isn't show business as they said on secession

Was that the quote he show business? He's box office box. He's not box. Yeah disantis isn't box office

He's a he's somebody who actually can execute running right, but also that's that's why he would be a good move for

Republicans I think is because he doesn't give the democrats as much to work with

Yeah

But he gives his enemies so much to work with all right another question from the back go ahead stand up tell us your name

yeah, uh

sal daher from boston

and

The question is

much less exciting

Regarding you know sort of in the problem of bank

bank runs and bank insurance by the fed and

bailing out, uh, you know

Average people bailing out wealthy people

I've heard a lot of solutions about this. I've been

So careers and banking for a while

Um, the idea of having senior management and the board have direct liability

If the feds have to step in to rescue the bank

Do you think that that could be a step in the right direction?

In preventing banks from taking risks. They really shouldn't have taken I mean the 2008 disaster the subprime crisis could have been

Addressed with this. I think this crisis

With svp could have been addressed with management just having a lot more to lose. Okay, so let me just first

Take issue with the terminology of bailout. I know that's what everyone calls it a bailout in my mind is when

The shareholders or the bondholders of the bank get bailed out by taxpayers

That happened in 2008. It did not happen here here. The question was whether depositors get made whole or not

I personally don't consider that a bailout. I understand that there are people who do

But it is a slightly different issue as to the bank management

you know, uh

you're talking about like a strict liability standard here that

I mean basically you're talking about piercing the corporate veil

and making the bank executives and their directors liable for

mismanagement of the bank and that is that's a pretty high bar

That's a really high bar and the problem with it is that I would never serve on the board of a bank

I mean, I probably wouldn't anyway, but if you told me that I could be

Liable piercing the bow. Yeah for for that even though right. We have a thing called the business judgment rule, you know in

Delaware where if directors and officers of the company perform

Their job in a good faith way making the best decisions they can and it goes wrong

They're not typically liable for that. Maybe the corporation's liable if they're not personally liable

I'd look if you did that

The managers wouldn't invest the cash in anything

Because they wouldn't want to take any risk of loss

And in order to operate the business which has a bunch of people working there and a bunch of banks that they got to operate

They're going to charge you a fee to hold your money for you

And so what happens is interest rates turn negative and you basically have to pay someone to hold your money for you

And that's what's a little bit messed up about the way the banking system works today

Is you're effectively giving a money manager the right to invest your money for you

They take your money. They pay you a low interest rate

They go invest in high-interest rate stuff by taking on risk with your capital

And ultimately they can take losses on that and if you want it to make them liable for those losses

They're not going to take that risk and the bank is going to have to change its business model from being an arbitrage business

To being a service fee business and they're going to have to figure out other ways to charge you service fees

Including charging you to hold your money in order to make money

And that's what a lot of the banks are now doing first republic and others have now proclaimed

That they're going to start charging a lot more service fees to hold your money

And they're going to start taking a lot less risk. So we're already headed in that direction

But that's fundamentally what I think would let's take another question from the audience

Good evening. I'm lisa song Sutton. Las Vegas, Nevada. Um gp in the veteran fund

as investors

You all invest in entrepreneurs

theoretically support american entrepreneurship

What role if any do you think vcs should have in

Shaping advocating supporting conservative economic policy in the country

shumoff

zero

I think that we have to know the role that you're doing if you're a venture investor

Which is you're buying a deep out of the money option

And I think that you want to motivate the people that you are partnering with

To take really thoughtful but outsized risks

And so I don't think there's a lot of room for

Conservatism I do think that there's room for

misallocation of capital

And I think that there's people that can help guide that but the reality is that when you start a company

It's 95 likely to fail and the venture investor is signing up for a

70 or 80

probability that they lose capital

Maybe a 10 or 15 or 20 chance that they get their money back and then the small

5 chance that it becomes reasonable

so

In that lens, I don't think that's where

conservative economic policies really should play a role

I think you just kind of got to go for it and if it's going to win it's going to win big and if it doesn't

You lose one extra money. I think like where you want conservative economic and rational thinking

Is when you go to the extreme other end, which is just like the large-scale decisions that

affect

The economic vibrancy of the country in which you live

And there on the margins, you probably want to be more rational than unrational irrational

But as a venture investor, I think you want to be irrational

But I also think you have to be very judgmental

And the reality is that most companies aren't going to work and most people

This may seem counter controversial

most people

When push comes to shove are a little afraid of the decisions they need to make to be truly successful

They're not willing to fire the people that they need to fire

They're not willing to be extreme in the product they want to build

They're not willing to price it. They're not willing to go to market in an extreme way

And it tends to be that these companies fail because of that a lack of courage a lack of conviction

It's a lack of courage or conviction because that that's a very heightened word

I just think that when push comes to shove most people implode with the pressure of making a very very hard decision

Interesting all right in my experience could be yours could be no

I mean, I I agree with you largely when a startup does fail

If the experienced people around it are watching and can't get through to the founder or the founding team

It's typically they are blocking their own success. They're unwilling to fire their co-founder their cto as the example

You're alluding to perhaps or raise the price of the software and lose some customers

Or to drive people to work harder because you've got a competitor in the space

And that's why you see extreme people win

In our pursuit and I think there's been just a great fallacy that's gone on

That you can have live work balance or life work balance and you could have this

Nirvana where you have it all the fact is the great companies are made by people who make great sacrifices period full stop

And if you're not willing to make the great sacrifice, you're not going to have great outcomes

Hi, uh, david samuel earlier today jason you had kind of a doomsday or ai

Panelist and my question is you guys have been thrust into the public spotlight

And we look at deep fakes in the next year or two as you talk about, you know tweeting on friday versus wednesday

How do you think about somebody having each of you saying things that you did not say?

And like how might we know whether chamath

Said that or it was a deep fakes saying it. I already have that problem

Yeah

Insider last week where somebody was saying I had a phone call. I never had so how do we solve this?

Especially for you as public as public two things two things one

I don't think people can say more outlandish and damaging things

in ai than we say ourselves

On this podcast at times

But number two, you know as we've discussed many times on this podcast. We have rebooted our trust

Uh in institutions

What we read what we see and I think people are now

Assuming they're being manipulated

Assuming something might be fake news or doctored and I think it's like

People are building up a much higher resiliency to bullshit lies manipulation

And if I were to ask a hundred people

What is the bias of cnn new york times fox msnbc npr?

90 out of 100 americans could describe it almost exactly

People are not dumb. This is another fallacy. I think we have in this country is that people are dumb and they're going to get

Suckered people are kind of figuring it out

And and we've seen deep fakes for what five years ten years now and they're like, yeah

You know luke skywalker didn't look really good in the mandalorian

But there's a kid who redid it and now dolly two is doing it. I think we're kind of

Anoculating ourselves too. What do you think free bird?

Deep fakes and truth when the Gutenberg press was invented a bunch of fake shit was

Printed and people believed it

I don't think

The current iteration with deep deep fakes is

Very different from any form of mass media being used to tell people on truth

I'm just called the crusades. What's that called the crusades. Yeah, no, I mean

But look, I mean, right, you're a hundred percent, right

But I don't want to speak about religion negatively in that way

It is one of many institutions of power that leveraged mass media

historically

uh

To get people to believe things to do things and to ultimately be able to tax people and get them to provide

capital and labor

in the interest of those who are in power

and the the system of deep faking is one of

A long string of using the current toolkit

To take mass media and and follow that same track

So it will be dealt with in the same way that

Things have been dealt with that have been fake news in the past

Which is that there will be an opposing voice and there will be

Counter arguments and there will be debates and it will be

Rancorous and it will be noisy and it will be hard to discern

And alternatives will emerge and tools that identify deep fakes will emerge

And it will be the same ongoing battle and seeking of the truth that humanity has

Tried to do

Since the dawn of mass media, you know

yesterday's conspiracy theories are like tomorrow's Pulitzer prizes

I always say like if you look at shinny no con or ripping up the pope's picture on saturday night live right in protest and saying like

This is the true enemy

They're molesting children and

Then the boston globe and the movie spotlight is about them

a decades later

Winning a Pulitzer

For uncovering what anybody who's in the room whose catholic in the 70s and 80s knew

Or had heard was going on and so

You know, maybe the time frame is shortening between when we're being lied to and when we figure it out

I actually think it's interesting and good because it forces us to find ways to find the truth more effectively

and

You know, it kind of without the antagonism. I think it's you know, it's it's absent

What is the truth? You don't you don't force that debate. You don't force that question and this will

start to reveal ways that we can kind of

Find things that are actual evidentiary things versus

Things that someone told me with either historically anecdote or innuendo or i'm a person in power

Or i'm an authority or i'm an expert and nowadays it's like i'm a piece of media

You should believe me or here i'm an image of a person and that's not going to be the case anymore

Hi, i'm jeff uh a full-time corporate vc and part-time angel. Um, my question's about ai and higher education

And it's actually some covert parenting advice so you can decide who's that's relevant for

My son just finished his freshman year of college and i'm questioning

What the future is for him in higher education given all the change that ai is going to

Going to have on on every career and every profession

And i'm wondering what advice you'd give to to your child or or someone who's in college right now for what

What's an area of study that won't maybe won't be disrupted by by ai or or an area that

Um ai you'll get leverage from your education

Through ai i think the reality is that most of the existing jobs that we have in the united states

Are going to go to lower cost locations

That have that toolchain to accelerate their capability

So

We are going to have to reinvent the workforce

And the things that we do

Over the next 30 or 40 years to stay relevant

That's probably like i think that should just be the operating principle

If you think about it, we used to run great call centers

Okay, those call centers were outsourced to the philippines in india, but in the next you know five or ten years

You'll have this flawless unaccented english or even more

Yearly perfectly accented english for the zip code of the person that's calling in so that it sounds like they're talking to somebody

That's literally their neighbor

That's like just makes so much sense right so it's like all this stuff is going to happen

We're like all these classes of jobs are going to go away

I saw this article where a lawyer two lawyers used chat gpt to

submit a legal brief

The problem was that it cited cases that didn't exist and now they're going to be disbarred

So this is like serious business right like you can't do that like that's like real legal

Malfeasance so what are your kids studying practice?

in college

You know if i had to choose something for my kids i would probably

I would probably tell them to do something

mathematical or biological

The reason I would point them to math is that I think that it's irrefutable

There's this great clip between

Ricky Gervais and steven colbert you guys should go and google this

But it's a clip where he's on the colbert show

And colbert is a deeply devout catholic and he's offended by the fact that ricky gervais doesn't believe in god

And he asks him why don't you believe in god and ricky gervais says look if we wiped out all the books in the world

In a thousand years everything that's scientific and mathematical would be reestablished

But everything that is religious or theoretically not you know mythical if you want to say

Would look very very different

And that's why I don't believe in god

I'm not trying to question that but it's a way of answering this question

Which is I would try to point my children to the body of knowledge

That's largely irrefutable

Which is biological and mathematical versus belief oriented because I think these tools will change one's beliefs

I've been thinking about this a lot too. I think teaching them to be entrepreneurial

resilient worldly ability to communicate ability to lead other people

In teams that stuff's not going to go away a communication skill, etc. And

I'm encouraging everybody who I work with to just use chat gpt4 and

barred every day for every single thing that they do my

base thesis right now is that

The job

Freezes the hiring freezes that are all these companies is indefinite

I'm assuming it's indefinite because the amount of work it takes to write a job requisition

Is more work in some cases than actually automating with

AI or ready the job function. And so I think 20 person companies might you know

Double in size in the next two or three years

But still have 20 people

This is going to be a big challenge for the for society

And if it if that does come to pass there's just going to be large swaths of people who

Are not going to be able to get job interviews for anything other than service jobs

And you know, we need a lot more plumbers electricians waiters, etc. Those probably jobs won't go away

Especially if we don't let people immigrate so I I I am super enthusiastic about that efficiency

But I think it also means you have to be entrepreneurial because if you can't get a job and you can't get

Centered you better create your own opportunity. You better create your own company

And that's what I'm seeing. That's the game on the field right now two or three people who don't have job offers from uber

And air bnb and google and facebook just saying fuck it. Let's start a company

Because there's nothing else for us to do

And those are highly skilled people right now doing that. I'll say two quick things about this topic

so

One is I think there's a lot of ai fear porn out there right now and I just think that like all these

Dumer scenarios are they're not going to play out overnight. I mean this is going to take a while

Second

If you think about like job elimination, it's going to be some super specialized jobs. So for example

I wouldn't want to be a radiologist right now, but doctors will be fine

So I think if you're thinking about like going into a job category that's super

Specialized and clearly in the way of ai then that probably is not a good idea, but

Most general skills like you're talking about and most job categories are going to be fine

There's just going to be some specialities within them that may get

Dislocated like I wouldn't want to be a truck driver either, you know because of self-driving

But transportation companies are still going to exist. So I think

You just want to be careful about super specialization. I think but building general skills is always really good

That really should be the point of college. Where would you put lawyers and accountants on that? I'm curious

They're sufficiently general that I don't think they're going to be eliminated

But will they be able to do five times the amount of work? Therefore, we won't need as many

They may be able to get more done. Yeah, I would expect them to be able to get more done

Yeah, but I don't think necessarily think that means we'll need less of them

I mean the old story about lawyers is that there was

One lawyer in a town had no business second lawyer came to town and they were both more busy than they knew what to do with

Yeah, lawyers get 30% more productive. They file 30% more lawsuits and you know, we're good. Yeah

All right, let's take another question. These are great questions so far. Hey guys rick spencer

Um, I hope chiomath gets to choose the wine this evening for dinner

I did not get to choose your wine. So I apologize in advance

Well, what kind of whatever trigger here? This is the 2018

Chateau con le fondre

Let's I love the bestie. Okay question

So you've talked recently in in episodes about the speed of ai the adoption and how the winners are still unknown

That was reinforced in the sessions today a room full of investors

How are you thinking differently about your investment?

You know your strategic investment decisions and your strategy

Are there opportunities to look at venture investing differently like venture studios?

You know in the future of ai I had this conversation earlier today. I think I started a company in 2006

where we took large data sets

And we built predictive models from those data sets and we use those predictive models to make analytical tools available

to a specific vertical in our case agriculture farmers

and the models were both

deterministic meaning there was kind of

definitions algorithmic definitions of physical parameters and there was like all the statistical inference that you get from

large data sets

And it made recommendations for farmers

What a lot of people are calling ai today

Is fundamentally a predictive model on text on language

I am making a language predictor that gives you a sentence

And it seems so profound because it is how we all interact with computers and interact with one another

And as a result it is kind of viewed as this sea change across all of these industries

Instantaneously, it's this whole new era

But the fact is that generally speaking the digitization of things and the amount of data that's being generated on earth is going up by some order of magnitude

every number of months

And our ability to make predictions and build predictive models that are useful to specific vertical segments is improving every sequential cycle

That this is happening across every vertical

And it is continued and it hasn't changed and it's not any different

So there's in this area of genomics and bioinformatics

There is an absolute sea change happening in human health in synthetic biology

And our ability to understand and predict the biological world and make changes and

Create new drugs create new systems for producing molecules for producing things that humans consume

And it is all buoyed by

machine learning applied to large data sets and genomics and other metadata associated with human health and biology

And we're seeing the same thing in other areas whether it's chemistry material science

Industrial application consumer markets and so on

The era of what people are now calling ai is an interface layer of language

That's really creating transformational opportunities on how these tools how these systems how these models can be utilized and provided

To all these different verticals and allows us to rethink business models to rethink interaction models

And to really change the economics of different businesses and the utility and the productivity of humans

Because it is about speech. It is about communication. It's about what we fundamentally do as a species

So I would argue that the general

Trajectory of machine learning the general trajectory of data generation our ability to make predictions

Generate value across all these different markets is continuing in the way that it has been continuing for the last 20 years

And it is profound in its own right

And I wouldn't say that there's a massive sea change in that evolution because of

large language models large language models create another set of opportunities

So I would kind of create a distinction and make sure that the categorization of the investment opportunities

In large language models be assessed on its own and everyone's all over the place as you guys probably heard today

Foundational models are getting disrupted every other week. They're being decreased in size parameters are being reduced

They're being commoditized. You can run these things on m2 chips

Everything is up in the air right now and it's friggin nuts

You're going to invest in a company at a 500 million dollar valuation and six weeks later

It's going to be worth zero because someone opensource the exact same thing that you can now do for 100k

So that's very difficult and very different

Then but there are still like these incredible points of inflection happening across all these other industries with respect to machine learning

And that's where I spend my time. Chimathi. Want to add what you're looking at? I think this is going to be the big question

Six or seven years ago

There was this google earnings release where they talked about building their own silicon

I've told this story before but I

Ping those guys and I was basically like I just want to meet the team that built the tpu

Long story short a year later. I put them in business

And you know, we've been building silicon for this moment for years

It's been really really hard

And the reason it's been really really hard is that Nvidia is just really really good

CUDA is very very complete

And it's just very difficult to justify why one would build

Once you have something that you think is profound

Through you know, implement multiple sdk's to like multiple points of silicon just doesn't make any sense

That being said I still think you need to be at the absolute bottom of the stack and the absolute top of the stack

I think I'm a little too biased for saying the former

Which is I'm hoping that there's

vendor diversity and silicon diversity

Because I think it's going to be really important. I don't think we want to have a world where Nvidia runs away with it

So I think there's investment opportunity there just because I think everybody should want that to happen

and then at the absolute top

Freeberg's right that

All these foundational models

I think are changing so rapidly that the thing that you want to figure out is like

What are you seeding it with to drive learning that's unique?

And that's a data problem. So there's an example that I've given. This was a an example given to me

By Nikeshawara, so it's not I'm not going to take credit for it. He's the CEO of Paul Alton Networks

But he was telling me

You know, when you look at

travel

The travel space all the public travel companies are like

300 billion dollars of public market cap, Expedia, Travelocity, all these companies

But they're pure middlemen

And they sit on top of the data feed that comes from a handful of companies one of them is Saber

And so I went and I looked at Saber Saber is like a 1.3 billion dollar company a small little company

But they are the ones that go into all the airlines extract all this gobbledygook data

Normalize it and allow

Expedia, Travelocity, booking.com to exist

In a world of machine learning where and AI where theoretically you can have conversational languages in inside of whatsapp or messenger or instagram

You see this beautiful picture. You're like book me a ticket to that place

Well Saber is actually the key

Value creator there and all these Expedia examples that are plugins at GPT make no sense

They make no economic sense. Those companies should go to zero

So I've used that as a way a forcing function for me to try to prove that there's really these two

Barbells, it's a barbell bookends one is a silicon and one of these sort of like data providers

That's probably an investable thing. That's defensible

Everything in the middle. I think what what Friedberg said is true

Which is today it looks like it's worth a couple billion dollars tomorrow's worth nothing

And I so I think you have to be very careful if you listen to

There's an interview that steven wolfram did with Lex Friedman. If you guys listened to it a few weeks ago

I had him on my pot a couple weeks ago, but haven't heard the free from yeah, he's incredible

Yeah, he's incredible if you listen to that interview

I think wolfram does a great job of describing the difference between inferential models or statistical models

and computational models

Statistical models are where you take large data sets and you build

statistical models that infer

And predict things in the future or predict things that you ask it to predict

From the data set that it's trained on and then it creates a statistical representation

It has a probability of being right or wrong and every prediction it makes and it creates a distribution of outputs from the model

And you can train a model from nothing today

Using a bunch of tools that are open source and generally available and a bunch of great silicon and all this amazing stuff

That's that's that's now out in the world

But there's a bunch of things that you can't

Generate data and you can't necessarily train models on and that requires computational models models where you actually have to build some

System that creates a deterministic outcome and deterministic means that it doesn't have a distribution of things that could happen

It has one thing and it calculates it like two plus four is six

There isn't a probability distribution on it being six two plus four is computable

It is calculable. It is six

The great unlock

That I think is ahead of us still generally speaking with respect to large language models

Is the connection back to computational models is the connection back to structured data

Where you can make requests and integrate structured data into the output combined with inferential output

And computational models where you can take the inference

You can take the request and figure out what computational models can I now run in addition to making a prediction about an output?

And that's where so much of the value is going to lie and it's going to require

incredible software engineering talent

applied maps statistics

All the stuff that's made data science generally speaking so successful over the last two decades is going to continue

And it's going to be this integration between

computation

And inference and it's going to be applied in lots of different markets and it's going to be really powerful

And we're all going to have our minds blown

Just in terms of the seed stage or super early pre seed stage

Two or three people who are obsessed with this technology who are playing with it every day

Who are keeping up to speed on it?

And who understand some customer base whether it's delighting themselves or delighting some other customer base

I'm willing to take that small bet on that 100k to 250k bet

Because in the previous paradigm shifts or platform shifts cloud computing apps and before that desktop computing

And the web

You saw people start tinkering with stuff and whatever their first two ideas were are long forgotten

Because they figured something else out and I kind of feel like that's the stage we're in

there were a lot of people who were playing with iPhones in the app store and

You know, they made a calculator or a flashlight that got built into the operating system as

I think freeberg is specifically pointing out like you could just be part of the model and your whole

Business is wiped out. We have one company that's trying to make itineraries for travel

And I looked at what they're building and then I you know, they're figuring out prompts

They're figuring out the interface. They're figuring out what people want

And I did the same searches on chat gpd4 and I was like, it's not that much better what you're doing

But it's better and your ideas are better

And so I think that the win the race and they only have to please you know, whatever number of users

And this company could wind up being like I said before a 20 person company that does 50 million in revenue

And I think that's going to be a very interesting future and it reminds me of the app economy

There were a small number of acts things like distro kid

Or instagram

Where small teams built things that printed money and had incredibly high margins

So I think that's part of the opportunity here. I do agree with chamois point data's the new oil

Whatever data set you have that you have that's unique is incredibly powerful in terms of defensibility and could help you to outpace one of the

generic models

This dude's been waiting. Okay, dude. Who's been waiting. All right, lightning round

Thanks, David for the mic. My name is ride must you transform bc in san francisco. My question is for you chamath

Um, the last finally jesus

What the fuck these guys

So on the last one or two episodes, I can't recall you

You brought up this whole idea is how do we get non us born

american patriots to run for president

so

As the growth hacking drunken master

What do you recommend? How do we propel this idea? How do we have it pick up steam?

And not have to wait 25 years or whatever, you know, it can't happen in the next few years

I think I do think there's a small probability it could happen in

25 to 30 years, but

Like the problem is that

the people that

Only jcal can be president on the stage. Yeah, the three of us are how fucked up this is

But I'll put you guys in my cabinet. You've all got positions. I think the how is that you have

enough bottoms up citizen journalism

and opinion formation

That people can independently decide that on the margin. This is a good idea

Like look, I I'm not interested in running for government

But if david were in charge of something very important treasury or state

I would have

immense confidence

If free berg were in charge of something I would have immense confidence

So the idea that guys like this

The idea that guys like this and oh because i'm born here, so you don't have to say that

Yeah, don't worry. You'll get the department of sanitation work. I'm definitely gonna win. No, so for sure

I think every job post master general

I do think it's a little it's a little crazy that

Guys like these two get disqualified

Just because they emigrated when they were like four and six

That's insane

So I I think that if we're in the business of actually deciding that you want the best people for this country

On the court so that we keep winning championships

You don't tell jonas. Oh, you know, you were born in greece. So chow chow. You don't get to play. That's crazy

Put them on the court and let them win

So I do think it takes 25 or 30 years though of us saying this because it has to be a groundswell of people that say

I just want to win because i'm seeing all these other countries starting to win more

And I don't think I want that for my children. I think I do think it takes a generation

I don't think it happens today. All right guys in a couple of hours. It will be

The sultan of science's birthday and alan keatings and alan keatings

And that's right alan keatings birthday

So I thought it would only be fitting

if

a hundred all-in superfans

Took a moment. I'm gonna sing an italian and sung

Happy birthday to dav frieberg three

two

one

Happy a birthday to you

Happy a birthday to you

Happy a birthday dear frieberg

Happy a birthday to you

And many more

All right sultan of science

I know your wish was to be a top 10 podcaster. It's come true finally

I gotta go into podcasting. Yes

Thank you

Oh

We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all

It's like this like sexual tension, but we just need to release somehow

What you're about to be what your feet?

We need to get merch

I'm doing

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.