198 Land med Einar Tørnquist: Bonus: Møte mellom Vladimir Putin og Kim Jong-un med Henrik Stålhane Hiim

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Eritrea, I think there's a lot going on between the recording and the publication of Eritrea

episode, so I thought that this is a bit weird. Maybe you should follow me to the news

that's happening in the geography world and just make some small updates in between.

Maybe that's the country we've been to before and we've made episodes about both North Korea

and Russia. And today, early on, we woke up to the news that Kim Jong-un, the

little round dictator from North Korea, met our little up-fiest, up-bloodest friend, Vladimir

Miravich Putin in the eastern Russia earlier today. I'm not sure how early it was for them,

but it was very early for us. It's been a few hours since then. This has already created

a lot of obstacles. I thought it might be nice to talk to someone who has a bit of a

peering on what might happen here and now. So I have sent a message to one called Henrik

Stålehande-Himm, who is the founder of the Espoo Institute for Social Studies and the

leader of the Center for International Security, to hear if he could take the phone today, so

I could ask him about everything I'm curious about, about this meeting, and do you think he

said yes? So now I'm just going to take the phone and hit the drone to him.

Hello, it's me.

Hello, it's one of the people who is calling from 199 JTL.

Hello, hello.

I'm talking to Henrik Stålehande-Himm.

It's me.

How do you take the red one and Stålehande, I think, with the other one?

Himm is good.

It's Himm, not Himm.

No, not so long. Just a little long.

Why are you giving me that? I'm so nice.

You, why don't you tell me if you're the one who is?

I'm the first person to be a member of the Espoo Institute for Social Studies.

I'm a part of the school of social studies, and I work with China, without the

Social Studies policy, but also with the Atom weapon, Spursmal, in both China and

North Korea. So I have a research interest, you can say, for the love weapon, Spursmal.

You also have a book about North Korea's Atom weapon program, don't you?

Yes, I have a book about it, one of the chapters was about the Atom weapon program

in North Korea, and the relationship between China and North Korea,

in which China had a split-up when it was in North Korea.

A split-up? What are the other chapters about?

They are about Iran's Atom program, and the relationship between China and

Pakistan's Atom program. China had a pretty strong relationship with the

Pakistani Atom program, but also overcame a lot of technology close to the other.

And you have lived in China, right? Chinese speaking?

Yes, I lived in China for a year, between 2006 and 2009. I have been much

back then, even now, I have not been able to go to Covid, it was pretty strict

in China, as you know. I lived in China, so I lived in Wuhan.

Is that true?

Yes, and it was no one who had heard about it, at that time it was no one who knew

about Wuhan, and now Wuhan has become a little more international-known,

but perhaps a little unhealthy under it.

Yes, but you have seen it, it is easy to talk about it, at least before.

Yes, it is not true.

We will call you to hear a little bit about this meeting between Kim Jong-un and Vlad

Miravich Putin, who has happened today, today early in our time at least.

How can we start with each other's forehand, like Russia, who is going straight to the

Soviet Union, and North Korea had gone through history again?

If you go back to the Galician Age and the Korean Age, at the beginning of the 50s,

the Soviet Union had a pretty close relationship with North Korea.

The entire Korean Age, which is like an exaggeration that we are there today,

with a part of the Korean Age.

It started after North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950,

and that time you got an American intervention with five states,

because the Soviet Union was short, I think, of that period.

But the Soviet Union was, I hope to put it this way, close to North Korea.

Not directly.

As a steward, but with a pilot, and with a lot of weaponry and material,

North Korea has been close to the North Koreans.

It has been close to the North Koreans throughout the whole of the Galician Age.

They were a part of the most, I hope to say, Marxist, communist bloc in this whole period.

And they share the border.

Russia has a short border against North Korea, as Vladivostok said?

They share the border.

It's not so far away.

It's a border between North Korea and China.

But they also have a border.

It's one of the two countries they have there, I think, in North Korea.

But what was the status between the two countries in 2023 before this meeting took place today?

There has been some tension that Russia has a lot of North Koreans.

It actually has.

In the last period, in the summer, the Foreign Minister of Russia Seger Sjogir was on a visit in Pyongyang.

So there has been a bit of a tension between them.

In the period after the Galician Age, Russia has actually had a smaller, more important role in North Korea.

When the Galician Age ended, Russia was no longer interested in a relationship with North Korea.

That's what we have seen lately with this visit.

Has there been any further information about the invasion of Ukraine?

Or is this something that we see as a kind of, what is it called, a little bit of a spirit move to get some friends?

There has been some further information about the invasion of Ukraine.

I think that Russia has been isolated, or is isolated, as it has been after the Galician Age.

It has been that way since then, you get to know each other a bit better, and send your friends signals that you know we can cooperate with countries like the US and Europe.

We are not interested in working with them.

So there are probably several tracks they can have.

Both the attack on the West and the West, shows that they have a distance.

At the same time, they can maybe get something out of this, both parties as well?

Yes, but I think that it should be the coming state or the state of emergency.

That has been added to the forum.

That Russia can get a lot of ammunition, which they do not own from North Korea.

Which sits on a lot of old Soviet materials, and has a lot of ammunition.

Additionally, there has been a way that North Korea has kept North Korea in the long-term distance, before they have developed a dome open,

with the development of a lot of artillery, which is installed towards the main area of North Korea.

So we know that North Korea has a lot of ammunition.

Do you have any questions about what they can get out of this?

This is something less important for North Korea to have.

Which they may offer to get something back from Russia.

They are sitting on a lot of old Soviet materials, and there is not an acute situation,

which they say that they would end up with.

In the end, they have built a dome open, an arsenal.

So it can be thought that they can offer a part of the ammunition.

What do you have from Russia?

We do not know that.

And we do not know either.

They have not yet confirmed that they have actually come to sell the dome open.

What was said by the United States was that we can discuss everything,

but we will not go into more detail about what will happen.

But what they could think of is potential cash,

which North Korea can offer to the United States.

Food support, perhaps also.

But I think that what makes the most of the EU is the idea that Russia can offer sensitive technology,

and sadly there is a technology that can go into the dome open to North Korea,

which can change the environment.

Do you think it is relevant for Russia to help North Korea's atomic program?

It would have been quite a fundamental benefit for the Russian side.

It has at least been well-known to me not for Russia with the knowledge and will,

in some way, that this is not a Russian atomic program.

But who knows?

There are many types of technology that Russia can offer,

whether it is the East or the Middle East.

It would have been relevant for the United States.

So we should not exclude it completely.

And it can also be something that, when I have tried to put a little bit up in the space,

it is also something that Russia can potentially help North Korea,

where they have advanced technologies that are probably of interest to North Korea.

So if Russia could contribute with atomic technology to North Korea,

because they probably have a little atomic program in North Korea too,

I don't think it would be so safe to say that.

No, absolutely not.

What concerns North Korea's new environment,

is that the new environment technology is potentially very relevant,

or in some cases the same technology as the use of an atomic weapon.

What concerns North Korea's new environment,

if you will, has also been heavily sanctioned.

There has been an offer to offer an atomic technology to North Korea,

because that type of technology can go into the atomic weapon environment.

Therefore, it is also a bit special that they meet on an atomic base,

and then they send a signal,

perhaps we have access to these sanctions that Russia has actually taken on,

and not to the type of technology North Korea has,

perhaps we will not be able to overcome all these sanctions at the same time.

But do you also think that the meeting point we have chosen is

the one that says that it comes from a dream far east in Russia,

then it is very likely that Kim Jong-un travels very slowly,

so it is in a way not very realistic to send him in 14 days

through Siberian forests before he comes to Moscow.

So they may want to have been the environment that Russia has imposed,

and why not scream a little with such a rocket base?

Can there be a little conspiracy theory in front of me?

No, no, absolutely not.

On the other hand, there was no speculation that they came to meet in Vladivostok.

The reason why we are in Havneby is that it is completely on the border,

it is not that it is right on the border, so that would be best logical.

Yes, you can go ahead and send someone there to meet

on an atomic base in the city,

so send a little different signal than when you meet in Havneby.

That is clear.

So how big is the potential exchange to the international community here?

Where are we going to be for this meeting?

When they come to Iceland, it is clear that it is a good thing

that they are not alone, but also in Europe and the United States.

When they come to Iceland,

if Iceland is led to complete its mission with that type of ammunition,

it can be directly relevant for the event

that they are not alone.

When it comes to North Korea,

it is clear that it is a rare neighbor in North Korea,

Japan, but also the United States,

which is most concerned about the potential.

It is rare if there would be a place that can go into the atom

and open to North Korea.

It should be said that North Koreans have come quite far

with their last years.

They are sitting on a lot of technology, more than many actually,

and that they are able to build themselves up,

both when it comes to the fact that they have also

advanced the missiles, which can now

potentially reach the United States.

But it is also clear that the support

can make the program even better,

and it must also be more suitable for the United States and Japan.

There is also a timing,

so it is possible that North Korea, at the same time,

with the G20, what is the meaning of that?

I know, you should read everything too much into it.

It can be a coincidence, but of course,

Putin did not build up at the G20 meeting,

so there is a little difference in the connection

between what can be different, so that he did not participate.

But at the same time, this meeting with Kim,

he said that at the same time,

that he had to make sure that he would reach

the Cosmodrome.

The reason we got to know about this meeting in advance

is because the US government has picked up information

on how they find such information,

because they do not send it to each other on the wall on Facebook.

No, you would like to know about that.

When they call the method and the seal,

it is in the form of the methodical evidence,

the things after the nuclear weapons in the US and other countries.

So we do not know that.

But what we have seen is that,

in the previous one,

there was an American meeting.

They put on and got a lot of information

without explaining it to the US in advance.

It has to be open,

to have good information

that has come from a place in the US system,

in the US regime.

So there is a lot that means that they still

have a hold on it,

which in turn makes my point

to see what this is and what

possible exchange can be.

But what they say about this information

is very moderate.

That is also true.

We call it a kind of forced demonstration from the US regime

that they have programmed

to get a big, full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

People do not believe in their own eyes,

so it happens.

They showed that

the good information you are sitting on

is very strong.

This is so capable we are

to catch this kind of thing.

And in a very small scale.

That is what you are doing now.

They did not have to explain it to you

and now to the FSD.

So in this case

you can see that they have had a pretty good call

on what will happen.

Fascinating.

We got the news earlier today

that there is a timetable difference

between what you think we can wake up to tomorrow?

I do not think so.

It can happen.

I do not know if they will come

with so many skills.

This is to be careful with the spectators.

If they wake up tomorrow, they have made a mistake.

They have a detailed list of things they plan to do.

I do not think so.

I do not think so.

I do not think that we will

get as many details as possible

about what a collaboration can consist of.

I am aware that

there can be things that are open with time

that you can find out later.

Let us say that there will be one, for example,

when there is not enough ammunition

to be used in the US,

we will have to wait until it is used.

This ammunition will be used

in the UK and the US.

We can think again

that the US is the most important

or the other.

I am not sure if we will get anything

new tomorrow.

It is great to talk to you.

I think we will do it every day.

But you may not.

No, but I hope to say that

I do not want to say this.

It is very nice to be here.

Can we call you if anything happens to Coco?

Absolutely, do it.

Thank you for taking the phone.

God bless.

We'll be right back.

Hello.

Hey, it's Sheena Chey.

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