198 Land med Einar Tørnquist: Bonus: Aserbajdsjans angrep på Nagorno-Karabakh

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Dear all of you, welcome to a new bonus episode of 198 countries here with me.

Hello, I'm Christian, in the studio.

I remember all of you saying that there is an app out there that you can download from 198 countries.

I'm just saying that it's the most popular app of the day.

It would have been worth it if I hadn't made a commercial for it.

But it's very good.

And it's a lot of geography games, so I tried it.

For seven days free test here.

I can recommend it to all the warmest.

Today, it's all about, I call it, a fragrant fresh news report from the world of geography.

Those who have followed me the last few days, at least on what happens in the Kavakos house,

have probably noticed that this is happening in Azerbaijan.

It's actually like Azerbaijan has gone to attack Nagorno-Karabakh.

And Nagorno-Karabakh, because those who don't remember what happened there in the 80s and 90s.

It's a little area that is located in front of the border of Azerbaijan.

And it is a part of Azerbaijan.

But inside there, this is a little bit of a roundabout, a little bit of a cave inside Azerbaijan,

where you mostly live then, Armenians.

And this is practically self-control and close connection to Armenia since the war there earlier in the 90s.

So then, push the switch from NRK, click in, then just throw me over the phone.

And then I got a text in the form of Jentoft, who is covering this matter for NRK.

He said, okay, I can stand up for a short talk.

So that was very nice.

He has been an external correspondent in Russia during the two periods, in the 1960s and 2000s,

and in 2014 and 2018 he had a lot of support from Finland for former Soviet states and broke the republic in Donetsk.

He is now going to have support on this building in Ville, where the Pope was lying down and so on.

But I'm not going to try to put too much effort into this.

I'm going to call Martin Jentoft and hear what is happening in Azerbaijan.

Is this something we should worry about? Is there war everywhere?

We'll call and then we'll hear from Martin.

Hello, Martin Jentoft.

Hello, there we are.

Good day. Do you have a few minutes?

Yes, I have a few minutes.

Fantastic.

Martin Jentoft, today I get a push on my phone about an open conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh.

What is happening?

What is happening is that Azerbaijan has started a limited anti-terror operation.

We don't like to talk about war, long international protests, but we are talking about a special operation in Ukraine in Nagorno-Karabakh.

To repeat a little bit of the story here, Nagorno-Karabakh is an area in Azerbaijan, a country in Caucasus, which once was a part of the Soviet Union.

But mainly this area is the population of ethnic Armenians.

It has been historically, and after a war, in the beginning of the 1990s, the Armenians took control of large areas in Nagorno-Karabakh.

The operation also directly connected to the Armenians themselves.

But in 2020, Azerbaijan used all the money they had earned on oil and gas, to start a large military operation and to generate large areas.

What we see now is just a continuation of what I said in 2020.

Now it is clear that Azerbaijan wants to use its military muscles to take control over the entire Nagorno-Karabakh military.

What do we expect from the resistance from internally in Nagorno-Karabakh?

Yes, it is clear that the Armenians who are there, they want to do what they can to defend themselves, but they are relatively few, maybe only 130,000 Armenians are again in this area.

And they are totally under the military right now, so they of course have support from the Armenians themselves.

So we will see then if Armenians in our strength, they want to go heavy into this conflict again.

Of course, there are many Armenians, so that it is free will in practice, so it is regular Armenian forces in Nagorno-Karabakh.

So what this can become, we do not know at all, it can become a black and white blood in a brutal war with Azerbaijan and Alvo.

For example, to go into Stepanakert, which is the capital city of the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh.

So what happens now is very, very dramatic.

Is there any connection, I mean, is there any gap between the Nagorno-Karabakh and the Armenians who are open?

Or is it isolated?

There has been a connection, a road connection between the so-called Lashinko corridor.

It was totally controlled by Armenians until 2020 and it was built, among other things, with support from the U.S.

There is a black and white Armenian diaspora, among other things, in California, where there are many known Armenians, among other things,

with the Pogstian Chair, and the Kardashians, as many know, and they used money to build this road here.

But this road, it took control over Azerbaijan in 2020, so there was a so-called Russian peace-keeping force,

which would secure this connection, but in spring of 2020, Azerbaijan has a control post on this road.

And in practice, they have control of the only road in and out of Nagorno-Karabakh right now.

So what role does Russia play here? Do you think the peace-keeping forces are a bit like the other countries there?

Yes, they have these so-called peace-keeping forces in this traditional way,

so it has been a very tight bond between Armenia and Russia.

There are a lot of Armenians who live and work in Russia, among other things, in the capital, Moscow,

and even the Orthodox Christians, even though they have, I can say, been a part of the Orthodox Christianity,

in contrast to Azerbaijan, which is mostly Muslim.

So it has been a tight bond between Armenia and Russia, and Nikol Pashinyan, the Armenian state minister,

has put on the act that Russia should be the only guarantist for their security.

But from a week ago, I can say that they have been naive, they have stood too much in Russia,

and it is clear that Russia is now sitting deeper in the depths of Ukraine in this war.

It does not have the capacity that they perhaps wanted to control the situation in Caucasus.

Armenia, as I said before, has been a military operation in the United States,

and now it has been an American force in Armenia.

This is also a big policy at a relatively high level.

Now we see that Russia is going out and getting the reports to respect our will,

but in practice we see that it is a little so that the peace-keeping Russian forces can stop the Azerbaijani attacks in Nagorno-Karabakh.

So it is the Azerbaijani that is using Russia to deal with their conflict in the West?

Yes, I think we can say that very clearly.

And maybe from the Azerbaijani side they are also a little afraid of what will happen if the Americans,

if the Americans, among other things, strengthen in here, want to make it more difficult in the future to get control over Nagorno-Karabakh.

So it is clear that Azerbaijan and President Aliyev in Azerbaijan have meant that there will be an opportunity to fight for the military.

Has Armenia been officially communicated in any way?

Yes, Nikol Pashinyan, the Armenian prime minister, has said that what is happening is a full-scale Azerbaijani invasion of Nagorno-Karabakh.

At the same time, it is said that the Armenian research department has not changed the border between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

It can be said that Azerbaijan does something that is first and foremost to take control over this declared military,

but that one does not want a full-scale war with Armenia.

What would you say to the region if they get a kind of full-scale war?

We have, for example, a different country, Georgia, that I have forgotten about everything.

What would you say to the region?

The region is energy-rich, first and foremost Azerbaijan, which has big oil and gas companies in the Caspian Sea.

And it is clear that if Armenia feels special pressure, then of course this installation of the Red Army from Azerbaijan

is a goal set with their eyes.

They can take it back.

They want to get big consequences, of course.

This is a serious situation.

We also have Turkey as a big regional actor here, an ally, a close ally to Azerbaijan.

We also have a language set between Azerbaijan and Turkey.

We also have in the south Iran, which, even though it is a Muslim country, has traditionally had a pretty close ally to Armenia.

We also know that Iran has a big minority of viewers,

within its borders.

This is a concern with potential for conflict.

There is also a part of the Nordic people who work in Azerbaijan in the oil industry.

Is it a danger for them?

How the conflict will develop, it is clear that it will be unstable.

I think that Azerbaijan is a strong part of this.

Armenia is perhaps not afraid of Nagorno-Karabakh.

At the first stage, it is about securing the Armenian minority,

in some way.

Nikol Pashinyan, the Armenian prime minister, has said that

he actually recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of Azerbaijan.

It is a big question of what kind of justice you can get from the minority,

what kind of justice you can get from the transit traffic inside and out of Nagorno-Karabakh.

But this is completely clear now.

Nikol Pashinyan has said something about the weak part.

What they can get out of these negotiations, we do not know.

What is the main motivation for Azerbaijan?

Do they think it is a historical injustice that they have lost control over this area?

Yes, it is clear.

They mean that Nagorno-Karabakh is an integrated part of Azerbaijan.

They also want full control over this conflict.

They may not want to go more on certain rights for the Armenian minority.

It is clear that this is their goal now.

Does Azerbaijan live there, or is it just a human being?

Yes, at the end of the 1980s, Azerbaijanians also lived in this area,

at the same time as the Armenians, in other parts of Azerbaijan,

in the capital Bako.

In the 1990s, the war between Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh was out of the question.

People who had lived peacefully together,

but in this situation, Soviet Union did not have a solution.

They were put up against each other.

One took the other.

We were able to see that the ethnic conflict,

and many thousands of people died in this conflict.

It is clear that a lot of change is going on,

even though these two people have lived peacefully together for many centuries.

Have you received any reactions from the rest of the world?

Have you received any reactions from Europe and China?

Yes, I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

I have received a lot of reactions from the rest of the world.

What is the difference between the two?

In the past, they looked like this.

In any case, they have modern weapons,

including drones, which they have received from Turkey,

which makes them stronger in most areas.

Thank you for being with us, Morten.

Where are you now, Fredsen?

I am in Oslo, in the NK-relation.

You are in Oslo, right?

Yes, it is very nice to see you, you just have to use it.

Yes, it is very nice to see you.

Good luck.

Okay, so that was a little talk with Morten Jentaft.

It is very nice that he has set up a little bit of a concern for the development there.

I had not been very happy and felt very safe

if I were one of those who lived, for example, in Stepanakert in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Then it is a little exciting development, the whole region there.

What is going on, Georgia, that is not drawn into something there?

I think the whole thing is a little bit of a mess, but okay.

We just have to follow the next time.

Next week I thought that if nothing else happens,

I thought I would try to call Jan Mayen.

Do you hear what it says there?

What is the drive-in on Jan Mayen?

That is what I suddenly wondered.

I thought I would try that.

I made a little call number there.

It is good if he calls out a bit.

So that is what you have been waiting for in the next mid-week episode.

In the future, I hope that you will compete with the next lovely episode of 198 countries.

I am a little nervous, because that is what I asked before the show.

I am so sorry.

But anyway, thank you for listening.

See you next time.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.