Global News Podcast: Bolsonaro back in Brazil

BBC BBC 3/30/23 - Episode Page - 31m - PDF Transcript

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Normaler Präsident Jair Bolsonaro returns home after months of self-imposed exile. An American Reporter is arrested in Russia accused of spying, prompting concern in the US.

And how a blood test could spare cancer patients the need for chemotherapy. Also in the podcast.

Two generations have lived without the threat of nuclear war, but this period is over. Will Putin press the nuclear button?

A Russian Nobel Peace Prize winner ponders the unthinkable. And the first address to the German parliament by a British monarch.

After three months in self-imposed exile in the United States, the far-right ex-President of Brazil has returned home with the potential to cause trouble for his successor.

Jair Bolsonaro left Brazil shortly before the swearing in of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, who narrowly beat him in the election last year.

Bolsonaro's supporters were waiting at the airport in the capital, Brasilia, draped in flags and chanting songs against President Lula.

Despite the loud reception from his supporters, Mr. Bolsonaro could face numerous legal challenges, including over whether he incited the rioters who stormed government buildings just days after he left the country.

The BBC's Camilla Mota in Sao Paulo told me more about Mr. Bolsonaro's return.

Even though the security plans made by local authorities expressly said there shouldn't be any gatherings at the airport, as you pointed out, dozens of his supporters were waiting for him in the lobby.

Bolsonaro didn't show up though. He left the airport from a private exit. That didn't seem to break their spirit.

In den Videos shared on social media, we can see people wrapped around the Brazilian flag, wearing Brazil's national football team jersey, chanting the national anthem, their jingles against Lula.

He was away for three months, but little seems to have changed, at least on how his hardcore supporters behave.

Yeah, I mean, even when he wasn't there, they stormed congress and other buildings in Brasilia. Now he's back, what can we expect?

Right, so he said yesterday that he's too young to retire. He's 68 years old, so he will probably get back into politics.

By the way, he went straight from the airport to the headquarters of his liberal party, the political party to which has been affiliated for almost two years now.

But for the surprise of many, he said in that same interview to CNN yesterday that he wouldn't leave the opposition against his rival, the current incumbent Lula da Silva.

We'll have to wait and see though. Bolsonaro has said things and did the opposite in the past many times.

Yeah, I mean, despite those words, does the fact that he is now back on Brazilian territory, does that pose problems for Lula?

Well, we'll also have to wait and see. We'll have to see how much, how deeper Bolsonaro will get into politics.

Because he comes back to Brazil to a very challenging landscape in which he's investigated on multiple occasions.

And for the first time in many years he doesn't have political immunity, which means he'll be tried in the common justice.

So that scenario could dictate a lot on how he's going to behave from now on. Bolsonaro was an elected politician for more than 30 years and made a political dynasty of his own.

Three of his sons are politicians. His wife was a politician at some point. His current wife flirts with politics.

So this is definitely a change of scenario for him.

He's entangled in a controversial story with Saudi Arabia, involving jewelry given to him by the Saudi government.

He has a deposition, by the way, scheduled for next Thursday with the federal police to explain that.

And besides, there are 16 lawsuits against him in Brazil's superior electoral court.

Some accusing him of abuse of power during the 2022 elections and spreading disinformation and casting doubts about the electoral system.

Ich bin Daniel Miller Motta in Sao Paulo.

Ever since he launched his invasion of Ukraine last year, Vladimir Putin has been hinting that he'd be willing to use nuclear weapons.

It's a claim that's been repeated many times by senior Russian officials.

But is he bluffing or is he really willing to risk the threat of mutually assured destruction by launching a nuclear war?

Our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg asked the Russian journalist and Nobel Prize winner Dmitry Muratov.

Die zwei Generationen haben ohne den threat von nuclear war geleistet.

Aber dieser Zeitpunkt ist vorbei.

Wird Putin den nuclear-Button pressen oder nicht?

Wer weiß, dass niemand das kennt.

In Russland sehen wir, wie die Stärkung der Stärkung der Stärkung ist,

dass die Menschen, die nuclear war, nicht ein schlechtes Ding sind.

In den TV-Channels hier, nuclear war und nuclear weapons are promoted,

as if they're advertising pet food.

They announced, we've got this missile, that missile, another kind of missile.

They talk about targeting Britain and France, about sparking a nuclear tsunami that washes away America.

Why do they say this, so that people here are ready?

People in Russia have been irradiated by propaganda.

Everyone is susceptible to it, not just Russians.

In Russia propaganda is 12 TV-Channels, tens of thousands of newspapers,

social media like the Russian version of Facebook, that completely serve the state ideology.

Russian journalist and Nobel Peace laureate Dmitry Muratov talking to Steve Rosenberg

und Steve said it's something that has been worrying the West since the start of the invasion in February last year.

Ever since then, what the West has seen and heard from Moscow is nuclear-saberattling.

Rather unsubtle hints being dropped by the Kremlin,

that it has a full arsenal of all the weapons you could imagine

and that Russia would be prepared to use them.

Unsubtle hints that the West and Western nations who are supporting Ukraine militarily

should not push Russia too far.

Only in the last few days, what have we seen?

We've seen Vladimir Putin announce his intention to station tactical nuclear weapons in neighbouring Belarus.

After that, we heard a senior aide, a close aide of Mr. Putin's,

Nikolai Patrushev, the secretary of the Russian Security Council,

saying that Russia has a unique modern weapon that it could use to destroy any opponent,

including in the United States.

Mr. Muratov basically concluded,

he doesn't know whether Putin would press a nuclear button or wouldn't.

Many people in the West dismiss the saberattling as bluff, bluster

and don't believe that the Kremlin would do that,

but we don't have a definitive answer, of course we don't.

Interesting is comment that he said that nuclear weapons are being sold to the Russian people like pet food.

Are the Russian people buying it?

I think some are, certainly when you speak to Russians.

We've travelled a lot across the country over the last few months

and spoken to many people and it's amazing how often people that you speak to

repeat the kind of propaganda they hear on Russian state television, almost word for word.

It's powerful stuff.

From morning till night Russians are being told that their country is a country of peace

and that the aggressors are Ukraine, the West, NATO, the United States, Britain.

Everything is turned upside down.

And Russians are being told that the West wants to destroy Russia, to chop Russia up into bits.

That's what they're being told and many people do believe that

because if you're being told that from morning till night, some of that sinks in.

Will anyone who hears Mr. Muratov in Russia believe what he's saying

and is he putting himself in danger by speaking out?

It's an interesting question, how powerful is his voice.

On the one hand, Nobel Peace Prize winners from Russia, few and far between.

There was Andrei Sakharov, back in Soviet times, nearly 50 years ago.

There was Mikhail Gorbachev, more than 30 years ago.

And there is Dmitry Muratov and that's pretty much it.

But being a Nobel Peace Prize Winner does not mean you are going to change people's opinions.

You are going to influence public opinion.

Being a Nobel Peace Prize Winner did not protect his newspaper,

Norve Gezena, from being shut down by the Russian authorities.

It did not protect him personally from being attacked last April on a train.

He was doused with red paint, laced with acetone.

It won't change views in the Kremlin.

Let him a Putin, for example, will not be pouring over every word

and wondering if he has done the right thing or not.

Our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg in Moscow.

And staying in Russia, the American newspaper The Wall Street Journal

has said it is deeply concerned for the safety of one of its reporters.

After he was arrested in central Russia, accused of spying,

Evan Gershkovich from The Wall Street Journal was detained in the city of Ekaterinburg,

1500 km east of Moscow.

The Kremlin claims he was caught spying red-handed.

He is the first reporter from an American news outlet charged with espionage

since the Cold War.

I heard more about him and his arrest from Sergei Goryshko

of the BBC Russian Service.

Evan Gershkovich worked in Russia for at least six years.

He first was reporter for newspaper, English newspaper Moscow Times in Moscow.

Then he moved on as a correspondent for the Agence France Press,

a French news agency and afterwards in January 2022

he joined the Wall Street Journal.

Evan reported on the events not only in Moscow,

but in different Russian regions.

He was often on duty trips and on one of those,

like his trip to Ekaterinburg, a city in the Russian Urals.

He was detained by the FSB operatives

and charged with espionage today.

So, what we know now is that Evan has been brought to Moscow,

the fort of a district court where espionage cases are usually held

and where they are heard.

And the FSB is now asking the court to arrest Gershkovich

to put him in prison, I believe for at least two months

until the investigation is open.

We've heard concern from the US and France.

What is likely to happen to him now?

Well, usually Russia do not respond immediately to the concerns like that.

Obviously Gershkovich as a US national

and as a reporter for the American newspaper.

His detention would be a concern both for US and Europe.

And obviously I believe that as he has worked

for a French news agency,

which is why France has expressed concern as well.

But Russians are now claiming,

I mean the officials are claiming

that Gershkovich has been arrested

as a keeping court right handed.

And he's been trying to establish some secrets

and pass them to the United States intelligence services,

which is why he's actually accused of espionage.

This is not the first time when a journalist in Russia

is accused of spying.

We can remember the Ivan Sifronovs case,

Russian military observer,

who has been sentenced to 22 years in prison,

charged of espionage in Russia.

But as for Gershkovich, as he is an American national,

it could be possible that he would be exchanged

on some Russian operatives who are now held in custody

in Europe or United States.

Sergei Goryshko of the BBC Russian Service.

20 years on from the American-led invasion of Iraq,

US Senators have voted to revoke

the legal justification for the war.

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis

and thousands of American and Allied soldiers

died in the conflict.

Many more are still living with the consequences.

The Senate also repealed the justification

for the US-led 1991 Gulf War.

Bob Menendez is a Democratic Senator for New Jersey.

This vote shows that Congress is prepared

to claw back our constitutional role

in deciding how and when a nation goes to war

and also when it should end wars.

On North America correspondent Peter Bose

told Charlotte Gallagher,

why US Senators were doing this now.

There's been a campaign for this,

albeit a slow-moving campaign,

ever since the invasion of Iraq.

The realisation that that invasion

was based on the false premise

that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling

weapons of mass destruction.

Many US lawmakers coming eventually to the conclusion

that the authorization that allowed it to go ahead

was simply wrong.

That was the October 2002 vote

that gave George Bush broad authority

for the invasion.

Really a defining moment in US history.

And many members of Congress

now simply rue the day that it happened

and they want to stop it happening again.

So we're talking now about the future of what

are known as authorisations for use of military force.

Sometimes referred to as just AUMFs,

which a president can use

to enter a military conflict.

And what kind of fallout

will there be from this, do you think?

Well, there's differing opinions on that.

Those in favour of it,

like the leader of the Democrats, Chuck Schumer,

who say if the legal justifications remain in place,

a future administration could abuse them

using his words to ensnare the US

into another conflict in the Middle East.

Democrats say the repeal is crucial

to prevent future abuses by another administration.

And they say also to reinforce that Iraq

is now a strategic partner of the United States,

much has changed over the last 20 years.

The other view from some Republicans

is that the repeal could project weakness

on the part of the US.

And some argue that the measure is still needed

as it gives the White House flexibility

to respond to threats around the world.

So this could affect any future decision

for the US to go to war?

It could, and that's what supporters of this hope

that it will shift decision making power to Congress

on how to start and how to end a war.

And that's what Bob Menendez was saying just now.

As far as currently,

there are military deployments right now

and that's been a big concern of some people.

The White House is saying that they will not be affected.

There will be no impact on current military deployments

around the world.

And we should also note that this isn't a done deal yet.

There still has to be the House of Representatives

to possibly take this up.

And the Republicans there of course have a majority.

So they want to continue to be a part of this.

The White House wants to have an effective side of this issue.

And they could attempt to change the measure.

So if it goes to a vote on the floor,

it could be very close.

Peter Bose.

Researchers here in Britain are evaluating the effectiveness

of a blood test that could spare bowel cancer patients

the need to have chemotherapy.

The trial will monitor about 1,500 patients over 3 years.

Medical Editor, Fergus Walsch.

...which can cause nerve damage to the hands and feet.

A smaller Australian trial last year found the use of blood tests nearly half the number of patients needing chemo without increasing the risk of relapse.

Doctors believe these so-called liquid biopsies have immense potential in monitoring and diagnosing cancer across a range of tumour types.

Our Medical Editor, Fergus Walsch.

And still to come.

The warmth of our relationship allows a small smile at each other's expense.

Naturally.

King Charles shows off his language skills as he addresses the German Parliament.

The attacker had very good knowledge of banking systems.

$2.1 billion in stolen funds.

The cybercriminal group.

It was the Lazarus Group again.

Lead us, my guys.

The Lazarus Heist is back for a brand new season.

We're following the latest twists and turns in the incredible story of the Lazarus Group Hackers.

The Lazarus Heist, Season 2 from the BBC World Service.

Find it wherever you get your podcasts.

For bank executives who helped a close associate of President Putin move millions of dollars through a Swiss branch of a Russian bank have been found guilty of a lack of due diligence.

The case centres on money deposited by the Russian musician Sergei Roldugin.

Image and folks reports.

The judge in the Zurich Court said it was beyond doubt that Russian musician Sergei Roldugin was not the true owner of the money he deposited.

The four bankers who opened the accounts should have asked questions.

They failed to do this and have been found guilty of violating Switzerland's due diligence laws.

This case has big implications.

If the money wasn't Sergei Roldugin's, whose was it?

He is a known close friend of Vladimir Putin's.

The Russian president, now under Western sanctions, is rumoured to have vast wealth.

Some of it invested abroad.

Image and folks.

On the first overseas tour of his reign, King Charles has become the first British monarch to address the current German Parliament.

He spoke in English and German in a wide-ranging speech that touched on history, culture and sport.

The warmth of our relationship allows a small smile at each other's expense.

Of course, there are rivalries in some areas. It was particularly special that the England women's football team, the Lionesses, were able to win the Euros against Germany.

I heard more from our Royal correspondent, Daniela Ralph, in Berlin.

It was a wide-ranging speech, and it was really interesting to listen to in the Bundesstaat, that flitting between the two languages, the English and the German.

He isn't a fluent German speaker, but he spoke at least half of that speech today, was in German to his German audience.

The overarching theme was the ties between Britain and Germany, with the King calling them strong and enduring.

He said he was here in Berlin to renew a special bond of friendship.

He also used an interesting language when he was talking about Ukraine.

These state visits can be very much about soft diplomacy. They are very careful events.

But he was pretty direct in the language that he used talking about Ukraine,

saying it was an unprovoked invasion that the freedom and dignity of people had been trampled in the most brutal way.

He praised Germany for working with the UK to support Ukraine militarily and also to support refugees that were living in either Britain or Ukraine.

As we heard there, he did also get some laughs in German, which was an impressive part of the speech.

Talking about our shared cultures, he said that the German had given Britain craft work, we had given them Monty Python, and talking about the football as well, when we were expecting perhaps him to refer to that traditional rivalry between the men's football teams for England and Germany.

But instead, no, he went for the lionesses for the women and he praised women's football in both Britain and Germany, saying that it had promoted gender equality in an impressive way.

Of course, the British Royal Family has German roots. How's the visit going down?

Yes, day two here, and as I say, these are very choreographed, careful kind of events.

But it does seem to be getting a very positive response.

He got a standing ovation, the king today for that speech in the Bundestag, and plenty of laughs throughout the speech as well.

So I think the mood is very positive. People seem very pleased to see him.

Germany, which, of course, has become the host of this state visit, he was supposed to go to France first, but that leg of the tour got postponed because of the protests there.

So it is Germany that is hosting and has very much rolled out the red carpet for the king.

Daniela Relf in Berlin.

A bill that aims to recognise Australia's indigenous peoples in the Constitution and set up a special committee to guide government policy has been formally introduced in Parliament.

A referendum is expected to take place later this year, as Phil Mercer reports.

The Attorney General Mark Dreyfus said that until the Constitution recognised First Nations people, Australia was a nation missing its heart.

This bill is about recognising and listening.

It recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this land.

It is about creating a voice and it is up to the Parliament and the Executive to listen.

The Constitutional Alteration Bill is the first step towards holding a referendum later this year, but it's divided Aboriginal Australia.

Critics have condemned the proposed Indigenous Advisory Panel that would help to shape official policy as a white elitist project that won't tackle poverty or discrimination.

Of the 44 referendums held in Australia since 1901, only eight have passed.

Phil Mercer in Sydney.

Voters in Finland go to the polls this Sunday and while the make-up of the coalition government may change, the nation is expected to continue on its course towards full NATO membership.

Spurred on by Russia's invasion of Ukraine, there's been cross-party support for Finland in joining the bloc.

Caroline Bailey reports from Eastern Finland.

I'm standing right on the border between Finland and its neighbour Russia, near the town of Imatra.

Just 600 metres from here, work is beginning on a new border fence.

The plan is to cover about 200 kilometres of the more than 1000 kilometre long border.

It will be three metres high and top of it razor blade wire rolls.

So there will be cameras on the top?

Yes, cameras.

Ismo Kurki from the Finnish Border Guard is in charge of building the new fence.

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, relations between Finland and Russia have soured.

The situation is still quite calm, but we have to be ready or prepared for the situation might come a little bit difficult.

Or even situations that Russia will use asylum seekers as a weapon against us.

He's suggesting Russia might try to spark some sort of crisis by sending refugees across the border into Finland and the EU.

Finland has had to learn to live alongside its unpredictable giant Russian neighbour,

ever since it became an independent country in 1917.

It fought against the Soviet Union twice last century and an awareness of a potential military threat from the east

is etched on the country's collective psyche.

It's always had a conscription army and it has enough underground shelters to protect its population,

including this one in the capital Helsinki.

It is pure bedrock.

And how far below ground are we?

About 20 metres.

In front of me are two enormous doors that are actually painted blue.

This doorway is the gas tight barrier.

With this barrier we can keep a positive airway within the shelter

and we can keep all the toxic elements out of the shelter.

Tommy Rask from Helsinki's Fire and Rescue Service took me down into one of its bedrock shelters,

which can hold 6,000 people.

So is Finland on greater alert now.

Our national threat assessment is still the same as over a year ago,

before Russians attacked Ukraine.

But it is a threat still, but the threat is a normal threat.

Since the birth of Finland we have been preparing for war.

Since 1917?

Since 1917.

The sense that Finland is always on alert over Russia is reflected in the popularity of its voluntary civil defence courses.

But there have been positive sides to the relationship too, trade both ways during the Cold War

and since then Russian tourists have boosted business in border towns like Lappenranter in the East,

as the Mayor Kimo Arva tells me.

We used to say that St. Petersburg big city in Russia has influenced more in this area

than maybe our capital of Finland, Helsinki.

But we are losing one million Euro every day because Russian tourists are not coming to make shopping here.

Last September the Finnish government stopped Russian tourist visas in response to the invasion of Ukraine.

The war has also led to strong public and cross-party support for Finland now joining NATO.

Caroline Bailey in Finland.

Moths have long suffered a perhaps unfair reputation as pests and the devourers of clothes.

But now scientists have discovered that they are playing a much bigger role than we realised in pollinating plants,

crucial for growing fruit, vegetables and flowers.

Fiona Matthews is a professor of environmental biology at the University of Sussex in England and a co-author of this research.

What we did was an experiment where we looked at Bramble flowers, just simple blackberry flowers

and we made it so moths could visit during the night

and we also had another experimental group where we allowed all the daytime pollinators to visit.

And what we found was that the rate at which pollen was deposited on the flowers was actually faster during the night than it was in the day.

Now, it's important to say, I don't want to set off a competition of bees versus moths.

And actually in most of the pollination, or more of the pollination, does happen during the day.

But the amazing thing that we found is in just seven hours of nighttime, those moths are working really hard

and they're actually depositing pollen faster than the daytime counterparts, the butterflies and the bees and so on.

I just think that they've been really, really overlooked, as you say, a lot of people are petrified of moths

and not only that, but I think scientists as well, you know, most scientists are out in the day rather than the night

and what we actually discover is if you go out and look at what's happening in the world at night, you know, flowers absolutely buzzing,

not with bees, but with moths.

Professor Fiona Matthews.

And that is all from us for now, but the Global News Podcast will be back very soon.

This edition was mixed by Johnny Hall and produced by David Lewis, our editor's Karen Martin.

I'm Oliver Conway. Until next time, goodbye.

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Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.

The controversial far right former president returns after his self-imposed exile. Also; concerns after a Wall Street Journal reporter is arrested in Russia, King Charles becomes the first British monarch to address the German parliament, and why moths are crucial in pollinating plants.