Global News Podcast: Azerbaijan hails surrender of Karabakh Armenians

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Life's Less Ordinary is the podcast from the BBC World Service, bringing you extraordinary

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BBC podcasts. This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Robin Brandt and in the early hours of Thursday, the 21st of September, these are our

main stories. The president of Azerbaijan says his forces have restored the country's sovereignty

over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region. America's central bank has left interest rates

unchanged but has dampened hopes of a rapid fall in inflation. And Venezuelan troops have seized

the country's largest prison, which had been controlled for years by a powerful criminal gang.

Also in this podcast, guess what you can get away with as a new baby name in Australia?

My jaw hit the floor when I saw the birth certificate.

We're going to start in the Caucasus, where a hastily agreed ceasefire between Azerbaijan

and ethnic Armenians in the breakaway enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh appears to be holding.

In an address to the nation, the Azerbaijani president, Ilam Aliyev, hailed the success

of his military's offensive, saying sovereignty had been restored. He also insisted that he had

nothing against the ethnic Armenian population. I've said the Armenian population living in

Azerbaijan are our citizens. To put it simply, Armenian nationalists, war criminals, leaders

of Armenia and Karabakh took these people hostage, poisoned their brains. Despite all the injustices

and all the crimes committed by the criminal Armenian regime, we have never blamed the Armenian people.

Well, during the 24-hour offensive, Azerbaijani forces attacked the region with artillery, fire,

missiles and drones. A human rights official said as many as 200 people had been killed

and many more injured, although the BBC hasn't been able to verify those figures independently.

Around 100,000 ethnic Armenians live in the enclave and their future is now in doubt,

with talk of reintegration. Our Caucasus's correspondent, Rehan Dimitri, is following

developments and she began by telling me more about that TV address. He said that all their plans

on reintegration of ethnic Armenians will be laid out the meeting in the Azerbaijani city,

to which the Karabakh Armenians have agreed. It was part of the ceasefire agreement that was

assigned earlier today and mediated by Russia. And President Aliyev kind of finished his speech

with kind of shaking his fist and saying, Karabakh is Azerbaijan and we will show them.

We have shown it to everybody. It's our sovereign territory. So very much kind of marking the

victory because what Azerbaijan launched yesterday, what it described as anti-terror

operation, it really kind of marks the final push by Azerbaijan to regain control of all

the territories that it lost in the 1990s. And just quickly on that ceasefire, I mean,

is it holding tonight? And secondly, who will police it? Who will ensure that it holds?

It appears to be holding, but there's so much uncertainty. We've seen pictures of thousands

of people gathering at the airport in the regional capital Stepanakert. The airport never ever

functioned because of the airspace was blocked by Azerbaijan. But the situation looks quite desperate

for ethnic Armenians. And it looks like many of them want to leave the region, but they don't know how.

Ray Handimitri with her assessment. So what now is the future for the 100,000 ethnic Armenians

living in the enclave? Before the Azerbaijani president made his victory speech,

Rebecca Kesby spoke to David Babayan, an advisor to the leadership of Nagorno-Karabakh,

which is known locally as the Artsakh Republic. He gave her his understanding of the current situation.

The battles stopped, but the struggle continues because we have to adopt a very harsh historical

decisions about our future. You say the struggle continues. Have you dissolved the ethnic Armenian

administration to which you belong? I mean, that was one of the key demands of the Azeris, wasn't it?

Yes, it's a very basic goal, but we have just to meet with them and discuss different issues.

The general mode of our population is that if there is no other possibility, I mean, if everybody

actually renounce any help of Artsakh, Republic of Armenia, Russia, the civilized community,

they are all accepting that we should be part of Azerbaijan, then it's much better just to leave,

to organize a kind of exodus of population, a biblical exodus, because this is what our

population, what our people think. This is why when I am talking about historical period

and very harsh decisions, I mean exactly this way. So at the moment, your administration hasn't

decided whether you will dissolve or not until you speak directly to the Azeris. What are your

immediate plans then? You're going to stay in Stepanikot? Well, first of all, we have to meet and

discuss different issues. But anyway, our population and our people actually, they, because we are

also a democratic state and we cannot ignore the will of people who are the sovereigns of

democratic states basically. So we have to take into consideration their basic needs and their

vision. And within that case, I think that we have to adopt indeed a crucial historical decisions,

which will actually shape the destiny of not only Artsakh Armenians, but also the Armenian people

in general. And also, it will bring to a drastic reform, mating of the geopolitical landscape

in Transcoccuses. Are you talking about doing some sort of deal whereby your administration

could stay in place? What kind of assurances would you be looking for? Well, first of all,

we have to understand that these negotiations should also touch upon not only political issues,

but also humanitarian issues. We have, for example, could have some bodies of perished soldiers on

both sides. We will have the issue of electricity supply, humanitarian issues, because Artsakh

has been under siege and blockade for more than nine months. So we have a lot of issues to discuss.

David Babian, an advisor to the leadership of Nagorno-Karabakh. Now, let's go to New York,

where both Ukraine and Russia addressed the UN Security Council on Wednesday,

as President Zelensky condemned Moscow's invasion of his country as criminal. Ukraine's leader,

who is at the annual gathering in the city in person for the first time since his country was

invaded last year, said Russia must be stripped of its power of veto on the Security Council.

President Zelensky said there should instead be a two-thirds majority to take decisions,

as Russia's veto had made any action to stop the war impossible. Russia will not give up this

stolen privilege voluntarily. Therefore, the UN General Assembly should be given a real power

to overcome the veto. This will be the first necessary step. It is impossible to stop the

war, because all efforts are vetoed by the aggressor. Our correspondent, Neda Tophak,

is in New York, and she listened to the President's speech. This was, as he said,

the first time he was there. And keep in mind that the Council has met dozens of times on Ukraine,

but there has never been action because of Russia's veto. So that's why he focused so much of his

comments on that issue. But, you know, he also spoke about the fact that people have stopped

pinning their hopes on the UN. He says Ukrainian soldiers are now doing at the expense of their

blood, what the UN Security Council should do by its vote, that they are the ones upholding

the principles of the UN Charter. And so he really tried to push for nations there who

haven't outright condemned Russia to say that by arming Ukraine, by supporting sanctions,

it means that they were defending not just Ukraine, but the entire globe, the UN Charter, again.

So these were kind of his lobbying efforts here in the Council. I think more broadly, he is just

pushing for reform of the UN system, because that's very popular right now here with other

nations. And he's using the war on Ukraine as another push to put UN reform on the agenda.

Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov also addressed the Security Council. I'm not sure

if the two men were actually in the same room at the same time. But what did Mr. Lavrov have to

say? It was a bit of a diplomatic dance there. We were waiting to see if there would be any

fiery rhetoric between the two. They actually made sure they weren't in the room together.

I think the one little bit of drama was that Russia's ambassador to the UN, Vasilina Benzia,

tried to have President Zelensky ejected from the meeting altogether. But then Albania's prime

minister said that they would agree to stop the meeting if Russia stopped the war. Now, as far as

what the foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said, when he did come into the room and President Zelensky

left, well, he accused the West of really creating these global tensions. He said, since the fall

of the Soviet Union, the United States and its allies had been meddling in Ukraine, trying to

bring them over to the West, that ahead of their full-scale invasion, although they call it a special

military operation, he said NATO refused to engage in dialogue, to really speak with Russia about

their security concerns. And so he defended Russia's invasion, and he defended the use of the veto,

saying it's a legitimate tool that others at the UN use.

Ned Atolfic reporting. Just going to stay in the US, where America's central bank has kept its

key interest rate unchanged. But it's forecast another rise by the end of this year to help

tackle inflation. The US Federal Reserve said it still had a long way to go in lowering inflation

sustainably. Michelle Flurry is in New York. The US Federal Reserve left interest rates steady

between five and a quarter and five and a half percent, but indicated its fight against inflation

isn't over. Officials at America's central bank signaled that they are prepared to hike one more

time this year and hold rates higher for longer. Central bankers now project higher growth and

lower unemployment for next year. If they're right, the US will have avoided a long-feared

recession. The Fed began lifting interest rates from near zero in March 2022.

Here in the UK, the Prime Minister has announced a major shift in the country's pace of cutting

carbon emissions. With a general election expected next year, Rishi Sunak said he was

softening policies that would phase out buying new diesel cars by 2030 or force people to replace

their domestic gas boilers. Mr Sunak insisted though that the world's sixth largest economy will

still aim to hit its target of net zero emissions by 2050. It was only two years ago that the

government, under a different Prime Minister, championed a so-called green industrial revolution.

This was Rishi Sunak in Downing Street explaining his about turn.

The debate about how we get to net zero has thrown up a range of worrying proposals.

And today I want to confirm that under this government, they will never happen.

The proposal to make you change your diet and harm British farmers by taxing meat,

or to create new taxes to discourage flying or going on holiday.

I've scrapped those two and nor will we ban new oil and gas in the North Sea,

which would simply leave us reliant on expensive imported energy from foreign dictators like Putin.

Well, I sat down with our climate editor, Justin Rolat, to get his assessment of Wednesday's

announcements. There were certainly were tweaks to some of the targets that the government has

made, you know, some of the more significant than others. He says he's going to stick by

the 2050 net zero target and the really ambitious target for cutting emissions by 2030, 68% target

by 2030. He says he hopes to achieve that. What struck me was, I mean, there was a big change

in terms of the cars, you know, getting rid of the 2030 target is quite a big deal and is a,

you know, is likely to slow consumer take up of a technology. I was slightly confounded by that.

I was quite surprised by it because actually sales of electric vehicles in Britain are out

performing the expectations both of the industry and of the climate change committee and of the

government. So we're doing quite well. And he kind of acknowledged that in the speech and said,

you know, like the technology is becoming increasingly persuasive. And we expect people

will take up those cars with their own choice. We're just not going to force you. Well, we heard

howls of complaint from the car industry when it was rumoured that he was going to do this.

They said, look, we want certainty. It helps us if we have a ban because we're investing hundreds

of millions of pounds on changing, retooling our factories to make electric vehicles and we want

to be certain there's a market in the future. There's always an interplay, isn't there, of

international commitments and domestic politics for any politician elected in a democratic system.

Do you think this announcement today is going to affect perceptions in those key

capitals, Beijing and Delhi, when Rishi Sunak sits down opposite those leaders and they say,

well, look, on the one hand, you're saying this pressuring us, but on the other hand,

you're announcing this. Boris Johnson says the UK is a leader in cutting carbon. It certainly has

been, you know, we've cut carbon by almost 50% on 1990 levels by last year. That exceeded the kind

of carbon cuts achieved by the countries, which is what the Prime Minister said. That does give

you a certain amount of diplomatic heft when you sit down and try and persuade other countries to

change their behaviour. It certainly weakens them. I'm not sure how much India and China

kind of would be persuaded by the effort of Britain to change their behaviour, but smaller

countries, you know, we did have influence and I suspect that this will kind of make it a little

bit less persuasive that, you know, for example, and obviously the commitment to oil and gas in

the North Sea, you know, we're saying to some African countries, please don't develop your oil

reserves. They're much poorer than us. They've had the benefits with a long industrial revolution,

and obviously, you know, it makes it even hard. I mean, it's a tough argument anyway,

makes it even harder if we're sucking out the last bits of oil from oil and gas from our reserves.

So I think, yeah, it does make it trickier in international negotiations. It does kind of

weaken Britain's, if you like, moral authority. The BBC's climate editor, Justin Rowlett,

archaeologists say their discovery of a wooden structure that's almost half a million years

old could change our understanding of early human life. Ancient logs that are carved and overlapping

were unearthed from the banks of a river in Zambia. The research by teams from Liverpool

and Aberystwyth universities here in the UK, published in the journal Nature,

suggest Stone Age people built what may have been shelters. Here's our science correspondent,

Victoria Gill. Prehistoric wooden artefacts are rare because wood rots away, but at this site,

pieces of wood were trapped in a riverbed, waterlogs and essentially pickled for millennia.

Archaeologists found tools, including wedges and tapered digging sticks, but most significant

were two large logs laid out at right angles to each other, as Professor Jeff Duller from

the University of Aberystwyth explains. One's lying over the other, and both pieces of wood

have had notches cut into them, and you can clearly see that those notches have been cut

by stone tools, and it makes the two logs fit together and allows these to become structural

objects. And that's really exciting to think that at this time people were building structures.

Dating layers of sediment grains the wood was buried in revealed that the timber was about

476,000 years old. The smaller log is a metre and a half long, so the structure these ancient

people were building is likely to have been substantial, perhaps a platform or a shelter.

The researchers didn't find bones at the site, so they don't know what species of an early human

made the structure. These logs are much older than the earliest modern human or Homo sapiens

fossils, but Professor Duller says that doesn't rule out our own species. It possibly is Homo

sapiens, and we just haven't discovered fossils from that age, but equally it could be Homo rectus,

Homo naledi. There were a number of Hominin species at that time in southern Africa.

The wood was brought to the UK for analysis and preservation. It's stored in tanks that

mimic the water logging that preserved it so beautifully for half a million years,

but it'll soon be returned to a museum collection in Zambia to go on display.

Victoria Gill reporting.

Well, still to come. Getting pigs, that's all they were. The British government turned around to you

and say, you prove it. Veterans who took part in British nuclear weapons tests in the 1950s and

60s are attempting to relaunch a battle for compensation.

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Welcome back to the Global News Podcast. Now, a massive security operation has taken place in

Venezuela to seize back control of one of the country's most notorious prisons.

More than 11,000 soldiers and police officers were involved, targeting gangs in the Tokoron

prison in the northern state of Aragua. The authorities say they are now in control.

I heard more about the security operation from our America's regional editor, Leonardo Rocha.

The government says it was a resounding success that they've managed to take control of the

compound after several hours. There was footage online and some footage

released by the government showing flames inside. But there is no information of casualties.

Apparently, what happened is the gang leaders that controlled this compound is a quite powerful

gang in Venezuela. They escaped when they saw them coming. So it's 11,000 soldiers and police

involved in the operation. The government described that as phase one of the operation,

regain control, transferring all the 6,000 inmates to other facilities. And phase two will be to go

after these gang leaders and to arrest them. Just to clarify, so some of these gang leaders have

managed to escape from the prison itself, or do you mean within the prison?

From the prison, because that prison was basically from what the accounts that people had in Venezuela

is that people just came in and out as they wanted. For example, many of the prisoners lived

with their families there, with their wives and children inside the prison. It's a surreal scenario.

They had this prison head of a swimming pool, nightclub, gambling areas and all sorts of facilities

in there. And what happens is the gangs took over control, they charged protection money,

basically extorting all prisoners, and they provided the services. Basically, the state left

abandoned the prison. And it happened in many other prisons across Venezuela. So when they saw

that the operation was coming in force and the thousands of people were coming to break into

the prison, they just left, they escaped. Now, let's talk a little bit about the prisoners themselves

and how bad, frankly, some of these people really are in terms of Venezuela's gang culture and

how influential they are in the country. Well, there is interesting links between

the gangs and politicians. Many recordings of groups inside prisons chanting political songs

and supporting this or that candidate. It's a very strange mix. This gang is quite powerful,

it's known as Alagua Train, and they operate across Venezuela with racketeering, prostitution,

illegal gold mining, and it was all controlled from inside the prisons. All prisons in Venezuela

are in an awful state and overcrowded. The government has been talking about

prison reform for a long time, but it hasn't happened. Leonardo Rocha, next to Myanmar,

where at least 30 people have died and dozens are missing after a military cargo boat sank in

the north of the country. The Chinwind River, where the boat capsized, has become a critical

transport route since the 2021 coup. But monsoon rains have made it treacherous. Our southeast

Asia correspondent, Jonathan Head reports. The boat was in a convoy of 11 vessels, which local

people say had been regularly moving along this part of the Chinwind River to supply military

posts further north. It had just taken on more passengers when it was caught in a powerful

eddy in the rain-swollen river and capsized. Eyewitnesses say they believe there were around

100 people on board, including soldiers and teachers and students from pro-military communities

who wanted to reach the city of Manawa. The Chinwind has always been an important transport

route in this region, but since the Civil War, ignited by the coup in 2021, it has become a

vital supply line for the military as road convoys are often ambushed or mined by insurgents from

the people's defence forces or PDFs. The river convoys are frequently fired upon,

but in this case, PDF sources have told the BBC that there was no shooting before the accident.

This is the peak of the monsoon rain season in Myanmar when river currents are at their strongest

and most difficult to navigate. Jonathan Head reporting. Here in the UK, veterans who took

part in the country's nuclear weapons tests in the 1950s and 60s are attempting to relaunch

a battle for compensation a decade after being legally blocked from suing the government.

Campaigners say newly discovered documents suggest that military officers may have had

suspicions that personnel suffered radioactive damage. More than 22,000 military staff worked

on detonations in Australia and the South Pacific. Here's our home affairs correspondent, Dominic

Cassiani. For decades, personnel who witnessed the nuclear bomb tests in the 1950s and 60s

have believed that later illnesses including cancer and birth defects in their children

could be blamed on radiation damage. There were virtually no safety precautions on the ground.

Some planes even flew through the mushroom clouds. Judges told the men in 2012 they had

run out of time to sue, but recently discovered documents have convinced campaigners they have

another chance. The file suggests military chiefs kept blood and urine records in secret archives,

tracking the health of the bomb test witnesses. Eric Barton and other members of the campaign

are determined to go back to court. Now aged 82, he witnessed six nuclear bomb tests and is appalled

at how he and his comrades have been treated. The government says there's no link between the

tests and ill health and says individual medical records have always been accessible.

Steve Purse's late father was present at tests and he was later born with disabilities.

He's been denied access to his father's blood tests and wants to know if radiation caused

genetic damage passed to him in the womb. From today, the campaign group aims to sign

up as many as 1500 surviving veterans for the planned court case. The Ministry of Defense

said it couldn't comment on potential legal action. Dominic Cassiani. Now many journalists

around the world have to work in dangerous conflict zones, very far away from the comfort of the kind

of studio I'm sitting in right now. But here in London, the Frontline Club was formed 20 years

ago on Wednesday to support such reporters and camera operators who work under life-threatening

conditions. The founder of that club, Vaughan Smith, has warned that it is now more dangerous than ever

to be a journalist working in areas like that and he's urged news organisations to do more to

protect the foreign journalists on the ground who assist their reporters. James Kumrasami

had a look around the Frontline Club. The room you're in at the moment is the club room,

kind of got a particular look and feel I think. The walls are covered in wood which was the

original flooring which I quite like. You know I've been here quite a few times, I'd never twigged.

Yeah, well it was us trying to sort of save money and actually the pine walls look quite

interesting and it sort of gives a hint of something I saw out in the Balkans. We were

really started, our community, our original community was from the Balkans. The revolt

of Bosnia's Serbs became a full-scale siege of Sarajevo, sites which Europe had not seen for

nearly 50 years were only the most visible evidence of ethnic cleansing. You don't really get war

stories because there's always someone who's got a better one. Also at the same time when we

started that we became much more aware of the post-traumatic stress disorder problems that

journalists were often having and it's clear that one of the things you can do about that

is engage socially with people who've had a rough time. It was a very healthy thing to be with

the people who have done similar things to help you ease back. There are memorials here and I

I see a memorial here to Rory. Rory Peck, the British journalist who was killed in Moscow

covering the October coup in 1993. Rory Peck was one of the original four, you know half of the

people who joined the agency were killed in the course of their work and it was it was tragic and

it got a little bit too much for me to bear. I opened the front line club really because I felt that

as freelancers we'd made quite a quite a contribution but we hadn't really fitted

into the industry and weren't always treated as well as perhaps we should have been and so this

is the memorials of the eight who were killed. It's very important to me that they're still here

beside the bar. That's very much the origin of the club because I felt I had a huge responsibility

because we were all in it together. Who were the most sort of interesting people that have stayed here?

We did have somebody who's extremely controversial called Julian Sarge come and stay here.

His bail conditions require him to live here at this house in Suffolk. It's the home of Mr

Assange's friend and supporter Vaughn Smith, a journalist who founded London's Frontline Club.

That was very challenging for us all. Half the club thought that it was really good and the other

half didn't and we reconciled it I think in the way that journalists can do these things. We all

got together in a room and listened to each other. Sometimes we look back at the way we treat people

in history and we regret it and I feel Julian is a case and I think future people will feel that

we mistreated him. From your vantage point how do you think the journalist experience of conflict

has changed over the 20 years the club has been here? I think it's barely recognizable. It's become

more dangerous undoubtedly because you only have to look. If you go to the buyer in northern France

they have a memorial for journalists who've been killed. Every year they carve these names in stone

and there are more every year. Vaughn Smith who founded the Frontline Club here in London.

Now let's end on names. We don't choose our names. We have our parents to thank for that. I'm happy

mostly with mine but is that going to be the case for the baby in Australia whose parents decided

to test their country's bureaucrats to its limits by registering their son as methamphetamine rules?

Yes you heard that correctly. Methamphetamine rules. Kirsten Drysdell is a journalist and she

and her husband wanted to find out where the New South Wales Register Office would draw the line

with their third child who was born in July. It turns out meth is okay. The name was legally

recorded. Tim Franks has been finding out from the baby's mom. My jaw hit the floor when I saw

the birth certificate. The registry have acknowledged that this shouldn't have happened and they're

going to work through processing a correction for us. So fortunately there is no lasting harm done to

my beautiful baby boy. The name that is registered initially will sort of remain in perpetuity in

some form. Is that not the case? There will be an internal record that this has happened obviously

within the registry but he will have his own birth certificate with his real name on it and this

will not appear on that. Okay when are you going to tell him? Well we'll see how that goes. Obviously

we will tell him whether we hold off until his 21st birthday and present him with the

mystery of the birth certificate then or if he finds out earlier we'll just see how it goes.

Assuming that none of his friends tell him or that he has access to the internet for example.

Take me back to the moment when you came up with a name. I mean it's a striking name,

methamphetamine rules. Why that one in particular? Honestly because we just thought it's so outrageous

that there's no possibility it will get through and yet here we are. Well you know I'm sure that

you've done a public service by suggesting to the New South Wales Registry Office that they

need to tighten up their procedures. Have you come up with a new name? Oh yes yes I mean he's

got the name we call him. We're not going public with that name because we're just trying not to

have it appear too much in conjunction with this one. I think with the passage of time I know the

internet is around forever but I'm sure there will be an outrageous story to take this one's place

by next week. Yeah and what sort of baby is he? Clearly he's not anything like a methamphetamine

addict at the age of eight weeks but is he I mean tell me what he's like? He's actually the most

delightful beautiful easiest most relaxed little baby. He's a happy little chap. He started smiling

in the last couple of weeks. He's my third child and I have my eldest is five and the next one's

three so the fact that we've been blessed with such a chilled little guy we're feeling very lucky

about. That is that is wonderful but my goodness I mean what a start I mean not just to his life

but also to I mean you're an experienced parent now but still eight weeks old and you're dealing

not just with him but also with a sort of international new sensation. I mean it's it's

quite a lot for you to cope with. The last 24 hours has been crazy. I did a show a couple of

years ago and this was exactly the kind of media incident that we would unpack and analyse with

the people at the centre of it. It's kind of been interesting for me to be on the other side of that.

It was like watching a fire start. Kirsten Drysdale mum of meth in New South Wales.

And that's all from us for now but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later.

If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it you can send us an email

the address is globalpodcastatbbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X formerly known as Twitter

at Global NewsPod. Now this edition was mixed by Chris Sablakwa. The producer was Liam McChefrey.

The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Robin Brandt. Thanks for listening. Goodbye.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.