de volksjury: Aflevering 115 - Otto Warmbier

Welcome to episode 115 of The Volksjuree.

We are Laura and Silke.

Yes, we are already recording a week earlier.

Because girl is trippin'.

I'm going on vacation.

More info, please.

We are going to Madeira.

Madeira.

In Portugal.

Wow.

Yes, never been before.

So could you still...

Yes, no, I had to ask you some tips for when you're back home.

When I'm back home.

Yes, because this episode will be online, of course.

If I'm back in practice, so it doesn't make any sense.

Let's skip it.

But yes, I'm excited.

I'm very curious.

I already have a lot of nice people who have already been there and who I know.

They say, yes, beautiful.

So yes, I'm a little bit on the swing.

A little bit of walking, a little bit of sightseeing.

Good food.

Yes, all-round vacation actually.

Just the bucket list vacation off-street.

Reading books.

A picturesque village at night.

Yes, I'm not saying I'm reading books, but I'm someone who takes a book with me.

And then that book didn't move at all.

Is that so?

I thought, yes, because I'm someone who takes a lot of books with me.

And then I don't have much with me.

Yes, I used to read a lot.

But now I have the podcast.

Because I'm there.

Now you have your podcast.

Yes, now I have the podcast with Amol2323.

And then, yes, I think that's more interesting than a book.

Okay, but I'm going to take one with me now, on behalf of you.

Yes, I gave it a go.

We actually got it together from a friend.

I have a few questions for you from Rebekah Makai.

I gave it a go.

And of course I had the deadline for silknair vacation,

because I wanted to share it with her.

But also a tip for you, if you don't have a vacation book yet,

and if you've already read all of our books,

I have a few questions for you from Rebekah Makai.

It's a fiction book, but there's some true crime in it.

There's some podcasting in it.

There's a murder in it that isn't as glassy as it was solved.

Oh, look at that.

Yes, it's taking all the lists off.

Okay, I'm not going to believe that I'm going to read it,

but I'm going to believe that I'm going to take it with me.

Okay, that's enough.

Do you have a tip?

No, not at all.

Okay, then we're going straight to the only thing you're interested in,

namely Chip the Parkit.

Yes, Chip.

How is it with Chip?

Yes, with Chip everything is going very well.

I didn't expect Chip to react to you guys so much.

Fans.

Fans girls on Chippy.

So I've sent all of your messages to my parents.

The parents are also from Chip.

And they were shot in a small panic,

because there were a lot of experts among you who said,

yes, but you have to see that you don't stick it in the coach,

and you don't have to give it only to saffers, and you have to do that and that.

And all of that is just like, oh shit, we didn't think about it well.

And then there was a very handy message from the VOC,

or in any case from a volunteer from the VOC,

that's the bird reception center,

that reassured me that the fake news is that they are spitting birds' feathers

when they are not brought back to their nest,

or found back.

So they said, you can't just give it away, no stress.

We're going to look for a bird,

and if it's not like that, it will come back in a full year

with many other birds with people who can take good care of it.

So that's what my parents really did in the morning.

Yes, and it was emotional and then so fun fact,

my mother thought it was the worst of everyone.

So the woman who gave it to me all the time,

was really taken care of by Chip.

But they said, you have to say in the podcast,

a very good organization that deserves all love and respect.

And they had the feeling that they had the right action,

that people can also better localize.

If someone is bird-quiet, they will contact that organization earlier

than my parents report on their Facebook.

Yes, but I think we are now all invested,

so I hope that we will also be brought to the highest level.

That was also my question.

Chip got a folk song,

and at the top of the list of the life of Chip.

Cool, huh?

So my mother sent me a photo of the folk song

and then the last photos,

and then they will let us know,

up to date, what happened to Chip.

So if there is an update, we'll let you know.

Okay, okay, okay.

I have another important contribution,

because apparently I didn't mention any of the episodes,

so I got a message from Annik herself.

Annik listens to the loose flodders.

That's what they do.

That's what we love, that the listener can only listen to the beginning.

And after the previous episode,

why didn't you mention anything about me again?

So suddenly people will think that we are no longer together.

So I wrote to my loose flodders,

Annik reported.

Annik, we see you.

We hear you.

You are deep inside us.

Yes, and we have to say,

it is also, thanks to her, that we have a lot of Saturdays.

Ah, so Annik is here during your vacation.

But...

I know that, yes.

You know that, you also have something prepared.

No, wait, wait, wait.

You have nothing prepared for Friday.

Oh, yes, yes.

Oh, yes, okay.

I already knew that you didn't...

No, you do.

Annik, shut up now.

No, so Annik is here during your vacation.

And you leave, I think, a chance to celebrate.

And I love that, that's why I love you as a couple.

So Annik had a birthday party planned.

I had an appointment, so I was there.

And it was amazing.

Now, it was a surprise from three parts, actually.

The first part was bowling.

I'm going to get you hard, but I'm not going to put it under the chair.

I hate bowling.

I'm going to go on about it.

I'm not...

Love it.

I will be good-headed.

Love it.

Okay, I can't do it.

I hate it.

I have to turn that corner.

Then there are people judging about it.

I always have zero.

I don't like it, probably because I can't do it.

So I skipped that part.

But then?

The second part speaks to me a lot.

We are going to karaoke.

And there was a group with whom we went.

Was there a bit of a hangover time when it was about karaoke?

Bowling was everyone really, in the middle of it, let's do it.

When I was at karaoke, Laura was the only one who said,

I do it.

Yes, I'm coming.

And you're in a room, all alone for you.

And then you have to start there.

And so I did the first song together with Anik.

That was a bit of a search for me, because if you haven't done that yet,

I've already done karaoke, but if you haven't done it yet,

then you have to sit down and look at how people are singing.

But in the end everything came off and it was very funny.

And we are still a bit hot, but also a third part.

We're still going to eat.

Yes, it was also very fun.

Very fun.

Great.

And we're still hot, because yesterday was the second day.

Yes.

We also went to rockwriters.

Yes.

And it was a top again.

Yes, it was fun.

We are now, with that in the beginning,

on the side of my horse and my choir, they had to come in.

Now we are at high speed.

We are at high speed.

We know what we have to do.

We know our tactics.

We know when we have to go to the toilet, what drinks we have to have.

Yes, absolutely the highest point for us both, I think, was La Rosalía.

I even left a train.

Oh, I've won, yes.

Oh, okay then.

But you know that's not so difficult for me.

I also won at other concerts.

I don't know much, let me put it that way.

But yes, I didn't have it.

I was speechless.

Yes, it was so good, sorry for who wasn't there.

But this was, next to Beyoncé, this was also a high point of my summer.

Yes, absolutely.

It was really unbelievable.

And if you get the chance to see her, do it.

She is a voice in our generation that has a woman's talent in millions of ways.

Not just singing, but choreography.

A lot of effort with those videos and how it goes with it.

So yes, if you get the chance to see her again, and it speaks to you a little bit,

definitely do it.

I want to give a little shout out, because we made use of it when we went to Harry Styles together.

And I was there, Vip Park in Ricky.

Ricky is a, now I can say, friend of ours.

Yes.

It's actually Ricardo, one of the experts from our book, who let us know.

He had us hear bubbles about the choir festival and he said,

ah, you had to go to work.

Let it be.

I have a surprise on a few kilometers of the bay, if you can park again.

We did that twice.

Yesterday we went home without a fucking goody back, with drinks and snacks on my car.

I was like, Ricky, you don't know that we have to thank you.

And you didn't turn around.

Unbelievable.

Super love.

So I want to say thank you for that.

And I share this with no one.

It's always our parking lot.

Yes, and Ricardo.

Yes, Ricardo is allowed to be upright for years, of course.

But if it's so much, then it's for us.

Yes, then it's for us.

Thank you, Ricardo.

That's super love.

We love you.

Voila.

We also have a small sponsor again.

In the event.

The first one is again.

Hello, fresh.

We should have a jingle.

Yes, and I was also thinking, it's like at home, a family,

just like the season finale.

So maybe this is also a bit of our season finale of our Hello, Fresh soap.

Oh, yes, that's possible.

Yes, yes.

Well, I still have one nice thing to say.

What I find cool about Hello, Fresh is that you don't have a food waste.

But it's zero.

Amper to 0.0.

And I think that in this society, as it were,

I think it's very close that they beat it up.

That they really just say, OK, we need so much sauce,

we need so many ayahuas, we need so much garlic,

seeds and you also use it.

And with us, they eat it up.

We really want amper, I mean, if there are rice, then we eat that the next day.

And that's gone.

While when I go to the store, I always miss it.

So or the recipes are what they say, yes, that's for four people,

but actually you get portions for six people in total

and then you have to throw it away again and so on.

And is that one word that you still find in the box after three weeks?

Oh, you don't want to know what you sometimes throw away.

You really don't throw it away.

And also throw away some things.

No, I forget that it's in there.

I'm also such an expert in opening sauces

and then I forget that I have that sauce.

Absolutely, absolutely.

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And then we have Emma Sleep.

They are back.

Hey Emma, welcome back.

We have already said it.

We have already experienced it.

We are now sleeping a little,

yes, a little and a half year, I would say, on our Emma Sleep mattress.

I have already sold it.

Emma Sleep cushions and Emma Sleep mattresses.

Yes, we have the whole package.

Night rest is very important.

While you are going to the festival on the 30th,

you have to be able to roll well.

So not only are we satisfied,

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Of the year it has been won various awards,

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If you want to send it back, you can do that too.

You have a guarantee of ten years.

Great.

It is July, so what does that mean?

It is summer solitude.

And also at Emma mattresses are sold.

So you can go to Emmastreepjemattras.be

where you see that the 55% discount is during summer solitude.

That is up to July 31st.

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with the code TheVolksjuryV, you have a nice 60% discount in total.

So it is now the moment.

Everybody has sent us a message.

In the middle of all the EMRs, it is now the moment.

I am going now.

Because it is summer solitude.

It is now the summer solitude.

It is going to happen.

Voila.

Then over to the delivery.

You chose.

I chose today.

And it is a delivery about Otto.

Yes, we have decided.

Otto warmbier.

In America it is probably warmbier.

But it is for us a very Dutch feeling word.

And I chose this because the country where it is played.

I'm just going to say, it is played in North Korea.

Yes, I find a merciless fascinating country in all its facets,

all its bad facets, all its good facets.

As you can see, there is just a very fascinating country.

And this is also just a very bizarre and striking story.

And this was already on my list for a long time.

It has also been very popular.

And it has been back on my radar for Tiktok.

So thank you Tiktok.

Thanks Tiktok.

So Voila.

With that I chose this.

I am very happy because it was also something that I really liked.

Voila.

Then we start again.

We have the first bioc of Otto.

Otto warmbier.

He was born on December 12, 1994 in Cincinnati, Ohio.

He is the eldest child of Cynthia or Cindy and Fred Warm.

Warmbier.

Warmbier.

Warmbier.

So what are your vibes?

Warmbier.

Ok.

His parents are Republicans.

Classic at home.

Wappert the American flag.

I will never understand it.

Otto himself also wrote that the All American kid

went to a good school,

he had the best numbers on the one hand.

It was a bit of a shame.

Not the best, but the second best.

Now, for all brands at home again.

A little bit of wisdom.

He was a good footballer.

A good swimmer.

He also became a spromking.

And what everyone also says.

Yes, but despite his popularity.

Because he is mostly from those clothes bags.

He was really friends with everyone.

And the parents did.

But Otto liked to go shopping in the second-hand shop.

And he bought Hawaiian t-shirts.

And in 2013 he graduated from the middle school.

And he already knew what he wanted to do with his life.

He went to the University of Virginia.

He would also get a scholarship.

And he wanted to become a banker.

And what I also find cute about him.

Is that he also has everything planned.

He has a planner on his desk.

With this I have to do everything.

Then I have this agreement with people.

And then he also took friends.

With a limited amount to a basketball game.

He was also on that agenda.

He was a really good guy.

An all-American good kid.

And he also joined the University

at a student association.

That was known as the Nerdy Dudes.

And for Otto it was really the most important thing.

His family and his studies.

The parties came together.

Something else that he was really interested in.

Because he studies trade and economy.

Because he wants to enter the banking world.

But next to Excel I think.

He is also really interested in other cultures.

So he visits his studies in Israel.

Parts of Europe, Cuba and Ecuador.

He did an international exchange

at the London School of Economics.

But it doesn't stop there.

In his third year at UNIF

he goes on exchange for a longer period to Hong Kong.

It is January 2016 when he wants to start there.

And he decides if I still go to the other side of the world trip

I can take some nipples with me on the way.

Yes, well seen actually.

Otto and I, I think we would plan our lives in the same way.

And he looks at the map of the country.

For example, I enter it and he sees Hong Kong.

And he says, what is there around that I would like to see?

The options are endless.

You have China, you have Oceania.

It's not super far, you have Japan.

South Korea.

South Korea.

But Otto's eye falls on North Korea.

Yes, and he also says something like

I have already visited several of those countries.

I have already been in Cuba.

How much can it be?

So it's going well.

For people who are not so familiar with North Korea

there are a lot of people who try to escape North Korea.

But they are locked up there.

They are taken back there.

People are executed there.

But what I mean is that the people are endless.

But it's still the country every year.

Thousands, let's say thousands of foreigners.

Yes, that's a strongly controlled round trip

because it provides money.

Because they are outside the economic world as we know it.

So they have to earn some income in a certain way.

Exactly.

And Otto comes back to the travel organization Young Pioneer Tours

that is specialized in buying excursions.

And their timeline is that they are decisions

where your mother keeps you away.

And Otto's mother was not so away from that trip.

But she said, why would I say no?

She said it was Otto's child.

The boy is responsible.

He's smart.

He comes up for other people.

He's going to do it right.

I'm not worried about that.

They paid $1200 for a five-day, four-night,

lasting New Year's party tour.

So they would celebrate New Year there.

From 2016 to 2017.

And the travel organization will still have their visa rules.

Everything will be done by that organization.

Laura, you just mentioned that.

Not from 2016 to 2017,

but from 2015 to 2016.

And I had wild expectations for the tour name.

If I were to book a tour, the New Year's party tour,

I would set up a sort of spring break

for Ibiza, Miami, Rijs.

But of course we're still in North Korea.

So it's not that simple.

What do we know?

Otto paid for it.

And he gets the information that his visa is being organized by us.

By the way, the travel organization is located in China,

but there are two new Zealanders there.

I found it interesting.

And he actually gets the information

on the Peking airport.

We bring the visa in order.

And from there, the tour starts.

It's also said that the travel organization

warns that the trip is safe for American citizens.

However, at that moment,

on the website of the American Ministry of Foreign Affairs,

things are being upgraded to travel to North Korea.

I'm going to say that literally every country in the world

is saying that you shouldn't go there.

I think it's for the whole world.

But anyway, the travel organization guarantees a safe visit.

So the location of the agreement

was indeed the airport of Beijing, Peking.

On December 29th, 2015.

And there they go on board.

And here I'm already dying of light.

So they board an old Soviet plane.

I'm going to say something.

An old Soviet plane.

I'm not calling.

I'm not calling.

I'm turning around.

We don't trust that.

But Otto goes on board.

Everything for the adventure.

He goes on board with the whole tour group.

The Americans.

And people from other nationalities.

But he is certainly not the only USA citizen

who is going to do this trip.

They land in Pyongyang.

In Pyongyang.

Think about it.

Give it a go.

In Pyongyang.

And when they arrive,

they actually go through.

Yes, the world they just left.

It's not the world they landed in.

They have to leave.

Then they have to be very rare.

You are already out of the Soviet plane, I think.

You are already gone.

You are already happy.

You are already gone.

You are no longer part of the plane.

As far as you know.

As far as you know.

You probably still have all your organs when you fall asleep.

And they land.

And they have to give away their cameras,

smartphones at their arrival.

And they are completely checked.

The cameras are wasted.

Check if there is any trash material.

Yes, that there certainly is no western movies.

Yes.

Because it is summer.

The guests can get involved.

Yes, yes, yes.

And in the group, Otto is actually joined by Danny Gretten.

He is a Brit.

And Otto will be the camera user during the trip.

And Danny will be convinced afterwards.

Look.

From the moment I met him,

there was a click in the middle.

He was very smart.

Intelligent.

Nice guy.

So I was happy with my camera user.

Good.

They are still in Pyeongyang in the morning.

And immediately the first step out of the tour.

They are brought on board the USS Pueblo.

And that was a espionage ship.

Spionage ship.

Spionage ship.

From the American Navy that in 1968

was taken by the North Korean in battle.

That was there in the water during the Korean war.

The Americans have been a bond of the South.

Yes, in the war.

So they were in hostile waters.

No, no.

A good idea that they had.

Super, super.

But I think that they do that.

Yes, I understand that.

Spionage.

Because you are on the other side.

But the fact that the North Koreans have rebuilt that.

Yes, yes.

It is a espionage ship.

I thought, yes, classic America.

How dare you.

Yes.

But this is a must see.

Then apparently, according to the North Koreans,

you have to have seen this.

That is the attraction.

Yes.

What do we know?

So the ship is in the hands of the North Koreans during the war.

The 82 American ships that were on board.

They were captured.

They have been stuck for 11 months.

They have been exiled, abused, abused.

And finally released.

And there they are in North Korea.

Super proud of it.

It is a revolution of the ship.

Of the imperial enemy.

And Mon, that tour group has that visit.

They look at my open mouth.

They are pretty shocked.

But once they are no longer under the North Koreans.

They start making jokes about it.

Because suddenly they realize that there are 10 Americans in our group.

You are all imperial enemies.

And Danny tells that.

That is also the nickname of Otto.

And his friends gave him the imperial enemy.

And when they ate something or drank something.

They asked, do you still have to have a pinch of imperial enemy?

So they laughed a little bit.

But I think we have to have a deep impression.

Because suddenly Otto realizes.

And where I am going to enjoy it.

We are not just visiting here.

For all the North Koreans.

We are number one state enemy.

Yes, absolutely.

He was shocked by it.

But in the end.

I feel comfortable again.

Because he has something like this.

But this is just a kind of big dollhouse.

It's just a bit of a bluff.

That's what they are doing here.

So Savawel.

Savawel.

And the following stories.

Of the young pioneers.

They are the gigantic statue of the first two leaders of the country.

And Otto begins to realize.

Because look, there are all North Koreans around.

But Otto realizes.

Look, they will be there.

They will be there.

They will be there.

They will be there.

And he realizes.

Outside of the capital, Pyongyang.

Yes, there are people starving.

There are people in concentration camps.

So he realizes.

Okay, this is not all pink.

And moon shine.

Or the big adventure.

How I see myself in the eyes.

What is happening here.

And also shining in the eyes.

Yes, I am indeed being led by a guide.

And there is no room for escapism and criticism.

Then I had to think all the time.

Maybe the Belgian listeners will know.

Maybe more than that.

Rijsebaas.

Tom Waas also visited North Korea.

And of course he followed the lead.

Yes, yes.

Yes, I would say.

If it was not so surprising at all.

I was there for a long time.

We stood at the point.

We have been in South Korea.

During our world trip.

And we looked at those options.

But that was very expensive.

Because we were at Seoul.

Seoul is actually on the border.

So we had a trip of three or four days.

But that was more than 1000 euros.

To drive around there.

To be driven around.

And I was like.

I don't like it either.

Oh, thank you.

And then they got their income.

So we didn't do that.

No.

But that is not the end of the year.

Where they are there.

They are going to drink in a fancy bar.

No one has really become drunk.

They went to the main square of Pyongyang.

Where they celebrated the last hour of 2015 together.

Also with other thousands of North Koreans.

They went back to the hotel.

And the hotel is also known as the Alcatraz of Fun.

Because it would apparently be on an island.

And to entertain tourists.

They are in a hotel of 47 floors.

Five restaurants.

Where one of them rotates.

They are actually like that.

I would say they are from that movie.

On that boat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what I would say.

There is a bar.

There is a sauna.

There is a massage salon.

There is a building.

Laura, I don't know if it's for you.

But I'm here for it.

But the rest.

I can find myself in all the rest of the attractions.

Yes.

Now.

During the New Year's night.

There are also a number of tourists from the Rijsboulen.

Others are going to the bar.

But in the end everybody is in bed again.

And then it's actually a good time to leave again.

The next day.

We have to go back home.

And in the airport.

In Pyeongyang.

There are Otto and Danny.

The friend.

The last two who actually have to show their passports.

And that starts for a long time.

They are there.

And they are there.

And the people who are the donors.

They have been checking their passports for a long time.

And I'm already...

I'm getting sick.

Wait a minute.

When I'm standing on a couch.

Why?

You come to the airport.

And you have to go through the scanner.

Where you have to do your liquids.

And you are there.

And at that moment.

So you have the luggage.

Picked up.

You know what's in there.

You put it on the luggage.

The tape.

And you see it going.

And you say.

There are 30 kilos of cocaine in there.

Yes.

Because of that tape.

I'm 100% sure that there is a bomb.

There is cocaine in there.

Messing.

Wapens.

I'm still on the spot.

Wapen.

When I step through the scanner.

In my head.

Yes.

Or that there is still something with my passport.

Which means that there is going to be an alarm bell.

That I have done something.

But I don't know myself.

Yes.

That's really so.

Yes.

So I wonder.

Has anyone ever really done something before?

Ah, let's know.

Yes.

The first thing I did before.

When I went to Thailand.

My girlfriend.

Wild rice?

No.

My girlfriend.

She has a bingo experience.

Is full of it.

I'm.

Yes.

There was a transition in India.

And then we had to be checked again.

And yes.

I was taken out of the train.

But yes.

That was also random.

And then I did have to take off my pants.

Okay.

That is.

Yes.

Otto and Danny are there.

Those passports.

Yes.

They gave it up.

They are still studying it.

And then suddenly there were two Duaneers.

Married.

Even.

And they stick Otto on the shoulder.

And yes.

Danny and Otto have something to say.

Danny is not an American.

But they all think.

Because look.

Otto is American.

They want to make him even more difficult.

Just to make him look like that.

They want to just leave him with his pants off.

There you go.

Look.

It can happen.

Obviously.

Wow.

Otto is being told to come with me.

And Danny says for fun.

Ah well.

That is the last time we have seen you.

Well.

So Otto.

That would be great.

That we would also make each other.

Of course.

But everyone.

In such a country.

Everyone makes him up.

So Otto is still there.

He is still with the Duaneers.

And when the plane leaves.

Someone comes on board.

He calls for the auto disease.

And that he had to be transferred to the hospital.

And the plane leaves without Otto.

Now.

At the Department of Foreign Affairs.

In the United States.

I work for a certain Robert King.

Yes.

He just got his vacation.

Yes.

And he is just back at the battle.

On January 2, 2016.

Barack Obama is still president at the moment.

Ah good term.

And he thinks.

Oh.

That's going to be a sad day.

Just answer messages from his vacation.

Let's take a look at some old foffies.

And I hear what Janis van Tonthal did with his vacation.

Voila, voila, voila.

Voila, voila, voila.

Maybe even an aperitif.

Yes.

And a little drink.

New Year's drink.

But then.

Red Alert.

Situation.

And.

Robert's first thought is.

Okay.

I hope not that this is not an American.

Because what Robert does.

He actually deals with the human rights changes in North Korea.

I have certain functions that do that in the department.

And he actually already had a dozen prisoners who could free Americans.

And now.

He got a message that there is still an American left in North Korea.

But they don't know so well what that is on the hand.

He takes contact with the parents of Otto and says.

Look.

This is not going to be a sprint.

This is going to be a marathon to know what is on the hand with Otto.

And get him back home.

We are dealing with it.

But the point is what is very important.

At this moment no one knows where Otto is.

Or why he is against the passport control.

And Robert also says.

Against the parents.

Against Cindy or Fred.

Look.

Keep this quiet for a while.

I'm not going to talk about the media right now.

But we are dealing with it.

Yes.

Let's look it up together.

Yes.

And then.

A month later.

After Otto's arrest.

He investigates North Korea that Otto has been arrested.

Yes.

There is a month of unknown time.

But there is nothing to say about the motive.

Outside the Korean state transmitter.

He says that Otto was arrested for a violent action against the state.

But further there are no details.

No.

The word leader of the Young Pioneer Group.

It seems that they heard that there was an incident.

In the hotel.

But also.

Not.

Not.

Extra information.

Yes.

Then.

Almost a month later.

Yes.

February 29, 2016.

Suddenly there is a press conference.

A press conference in North Korea.

On the Korean state television.

On the Korean state television.

We see.

First and foremost.

Very large portraits.

Of their leaders.

And of previous leaders.

And then suddenly Otto gets the space.

Inside.

He is guided by two.

Yes.

They are officers.

I find their goods so fascinating.

They are too big.

They are too big.

I understand that you are excluded from the world.

But someone has to tell those people.

That their goods are too big.

That's the only thing.

I said it now.

It's coming soon.

Your goods are too big.

Otto is guided by two officers.

He is put on a microphone.

And he takes a paper.

That he begins to read.

It is a prepared explanation.

And in that explanation he says.

That he has tried to steal a propaganda poster.

From the hotel where they spent the night.

The second floor of the Yanggakdo Hotel.

It was in a room that was only accessible to the staff.

And he wanted to take that poster home.

On the poster there was Korean text.

And in the meaning of free speech.

Let us be strongly armed with Kim Jong Il's patriotism.

Now.

Okay.

He has a well-known poster.

He wants to steal.

What is the problem?

According to the Korean North Korean law.

Is it harmful or steal from our ancestors in the name?

Or with the images of one of the North Korean leaders?

It is considered a serious miscarriage.

Otto goes on with his speech.

That he has prepared.

And he thanks in his speech.

The North Korean government.

That he gets the opportunity to blame himself.

For his misdeed.

He asks forgiveness.

He smokes to save his life.

And he wants to apologize.

That he has the work, the ethos and the motivation of the Korean people.

He wants to protect.

That is important to the poster.

It is not just a poster.

But the people have to put it in the hotel.

To work for the country.

To receive the tourists.

To get the money.

And to go all the way.

It is a motivational speech.

A poster of their leader.

You can't just arrive in the summer.

And then.

Something breaks up in Otto.

So until now he has just read a text.

And then he can no longer complain about his tears.

And he ends his speech with

I have taken the worst decision of my life.

I am also just a human.

And suddenly he is actually removed.

Yes.

Yes, images are on YouTube.

By the way.

So there you can watch it.

Now Otto Zouw.

Those misdeeds have been put in charge of his local church in America.

A secret association where he was a member of his university.

Z-Society.

Yes.

And the CIA.

But there is still one small problem.

Because Otto was young.

And did not go to the local church.

So there is already a very quick suspicion.

Of course that he is known.

Or that speech.

Written by North Koreans themselves.

Now.

Flash forward to March 16th.

2016.

We are two weeks later.

And Otto is being presented.

For a misdeed.

I want to vote for him.

With the American government.

A very different policy against North Korea.

In an attempt to test the unity of the population.

So that he, the country as a tourist, has come in.

Very mouthful to be presented.

Yes.

For those who have the textbook at home.

So according to Zouw.

He Zouw article 60.

Of the North Korean law of the criminal law.

If someone can send a copy of that page.

Oh yes.

I would like to read it again.

We are going to make a real snowfall.

If someone has something to do with it.

Look at us as the first one.

A copy of article 60 of the North Korean law of the criminal law.

Please.

Here.

Now.

Well.

For example.

Yes.

But there is also evidence.

Of course.

The court has told Belgium for one hour.

But there is his acquaintance.

Belgium would never.

There are fingerprints.

There are evidence statements.

But there are also surveillance cameras from the hotel.

Yes.

It was there to see.

How someone.

So actually not at all clear.

Who?

And I'm going to break you down again.

I'm the North Korean.

Sorry.

We also say sometimes the North Korean.

And I really don't want the South Korean.

No, no.

We always mean the North Koreans.

Would it be exactly their feeling of water.

That we made a podcast here.

Or that people in any case.

The camera images.

In doubt.

Go.

So they also put online.

In super sharp quality.

So that all doubt can be taken away.

Yes.

Okay.

Just that you know.

I saw them.

Okay.

Glasses.

Well.

Wait.

There is.

So there is someone.

Yes.

It is just a person.

You can distinguish that.

It is a person.

The propaganda poster in a kind of frame.

It is also a.

It is not a poster format as we know it.

But it is a long vertical poster.

Horizontal poster.

Yes.

It is.

Because I was also really in the war.

When I saw the images.

I said.

But there is no poster here.

But it is a sort of.

Light.

A light bulb.

Yes.

Where that then.

But really a line.

Yes.

A line.

Really a line with all.

Korean drawings.

Yes.

So there are no images.

Just a red paper.

Yes.

Red paper.

With all white letters.

Yes.

Indeed.

From a meter or so.

Or two meters or so.

Yes.

So they see how someone.

The poster of the wall.

In the closed part of the hotel.

They say.

So look.

Auto.

Videos of very bad quality.

Indeed.

But.

Auto is eventually identified.

Through his North Korean guide.

And those pictures are made.

Two days after Otto's wedding.

Right.

But we all know.

How it works in North Korea.

That guide.

Maybe also himself.

For his own life.

So it can only be.

That he.

The random.

Otto has indicated.

Well.

What.

Later on.

But Otto is presented.

Until.

Fifteen years of forced labor.

Yes.

And according to.

According to various experts.

Then without.

Heavy punishment.

And what that can do.

Have.

Are the tensions.

Which are at the moment.

Between.

The United States.

And North Korea.

Now.

Despite.

The next part of Otto.

Is the American government.

Try.

To get Otto out.

There are many.

Different diplomatic.

Meetings.

But the most important.

Is that of.

June.

2017.

That's.

We're almost a year and a half.

Further.

After Otto's judgment.

Now.

On June.

Is there a meeting.

In New York.

Between.

North Korean ambassadors.

And.

An American delegation.

Just.

You've already said it.

But this is the most.

Meeting.

Since.

Otto's judgment.

About the.

Week.

Two weeks.

Where there.

Where there.

American diplomats.

The.

Meetings.

Had.

With.

North Korean ambassadors.

So they really.

Their best.

Just.

All the time.

In my head.

A restaurant hotel.

Everything.

To keep.

The negotiations.

Walking.

To.

2017.

That's up in store.

You.

It's not so good.

With Otto's health.

Is.

Very.

After.

Out.

And.

Thereup.

Then.

Is.

President Trump.

And the.

And he says.

Okay.

We.

Steal.

A team.

To North Korea.

A media team.

We.

Are.

Going.

To.

Take.

All.

Diplomatic.

See.

And.

They say.

A.

You know.

Young.

I.

The team.

Where.

The.

Doctors.

Say.

We.

Will.

You.

See.

We.

To.

See.

And.

They.

Be.

To.

And.

The.

American.

The.

Thirteen.

Because.

Jill.

Is.

The.

moral.

That.

And.

ME.

I.

See you.

You know.

And.

We should.

See you there.

Call me.

I.

Hope you.

I think it's unbelievable.

It's an air ambulance, a plane that has been completely rebuilt by Phoenix Air,

which is really specialised, in removing,

it was actually used at that time, to remove Americans from Africa from the Ebola crisis.

But Trump quickly removed it because at that time Otto was more important to him.

Everyone had to make their own decisions.

On board you don't have anything other than a sort of big surgery room,

where all the medical things are on board.

It's actually a flying spot department.

I'd like to see it, I'd like to see it very much.

Fred and Cindy are also waiting for their son.

They haven't talked to him for a year and a half, we haven't seen him.

There has been no communication.

And they've been out for a long time, that your son was just dead.

They know that you're not doing well,

but at the moment Otto is on his way to America in the air,

they have no idea in what situation they're going to meet your son.

The only thing they know is that he's out of his mind.

Yes, they think he's been in a sort of artificial coma at the moment.

Yes, voilà.

So they were actually both very optimistic.

The parents of Otto thought they were going to land here again.

Best healthcare in the world.

We have plenty of money, we can pay for this.

And he's going to be his old self again.

That's flying land.

Fred and Cindy are there, of course.

And the doors are going to open from that plane.

And they're being boarded.

Yes, Fred is going to step up.

And he says, the first thing I heard was a sort of unmistakable cry.

That was caused by Merch and Ben.

But he didn't know what it was.

He thought, what was it?

Is it a machine? Is it a human being? What's going on?

What's going on?

And one time, inside, he realized that Otto is bound to a branch.

Where he was very strict about shooting and shooting and everything.

And so he produced those unmistakable sounds.

Cindy said that I was prepared for the change that Otto made.

But she didn't expect this.

According to the parents of Otto, his arms and legs were completely disformed.

His golf-brown locks were cut off.

There was a food waste in his nose.

And Fred would have seen that it looked like someone had taken a tongue out

and had sent his teeth to a new one.

And Otto's sister was there too.

And she would already be the flight attendant Cindy went after her.

Fred went to his son, grabbed him,

but his eyes remained open.

There was no reaction.

There was no reaction.

I just looked through Fred when it was true.

But Fred just said, look, we missed you.

Welcome home.

I tried to look for that connection.

But Otto was only able to produce those strange sounds.

So I ask myself, I read this news article that we read.

The journalist who wrote it, it was, it was hard inside this piece about the parents.

I ask myself, did they have to do something better than parents?

Absolutely, but I think they...

I think this is very American.

That they were allowed on the plane.

That there is nothing to be said that they were really on that plane.

So that plane landed and they were on the tarmac, on that plane.

But that was also at Olivier van der Kastelen, right?

The family was also on the tarmac then.

Yes, but Olivier did come down on that plane.

No, I know, I know.

But yes, what can those parents not forbid from going on that tarmac?

And I think they had to communicate about it.

Absolutely, yes, unsubstantiated.

Yes, yes, they were in complete shock.

But maybe because they didn't know what was going on,

but you can say something, of course.

Yes, you can, because...

There is something else, they could have come to terms with this.

Yes, because Cindy had asked if they were aware of it.

And they said no, but if you say to me, someone is not aware of it,

then I'm going out of a sleep state.

Exactly.

Not of the person who is no longer in his head,

because that is exactly what is going on with Otto.

Yes, because what is going on with him?

Yes, yes.

And they asked a good question.

And I'm going to answer my question because of that.

But I can't tell you for sure.

Otto is taken to the hospital.

And there, there is an immediate investigation into him.

And what can be determined is that he has not been so badly worried

in North Korea as it seems.

It has to be a big shock and it has to have been completely different.

But what the doctors can determine is that he has not been so badly worried.

The doctors notice that in 90% of hospitals in America,

if someone in this situation were to be less aware,

he is well aware.

There are long outside, there are no signs of him being beaten,

there are no blue spots, there are no wounds.

So that part seems to be all in order.

In North Korea, they have received a lot of brain cancer.

And there, the doctors have said to the American team,

he has brought us in here, as you can see now, in the hospital.

And there is serious brain damage.

You can see that on the chance that we all share with you here.

So all these chances are also newly established in the United States.

And the doctors have to conclude after a few hours of research.

There is indeed huge brain damage.

We do not know what that has to do with the cause.

What we can say is that this is not going to get better.

What we also do, this is not going to get better.

No, because at that moment we know that he can breathe a lot,

he can pinch his eyes,

but he does not take anything serious from what happened around him.

Now, what they can also realize is that Otto is already in this situation

since April 2016, a month after his pre-determination.

And then it starts to speculate a bit.

While in America, as in North Korea, they have their own story

of what could have happened.

North Korea says, look, this is the situation where Otto really came from.

It is actually a combination of botulism and an unexpected reaction from a sleeper.

What is botulism?

Look at his face.

Look, it's a...

Look, lust.

Lust, right here.

This is an emergency...

I looked it up on the Dutch website,

an emergency disease that is caused by toxins from a bacteria,

the Clostridium botulinum.

And can that actually lead to something to eat

that has not been preserved well enough?

A kind of disease with foots, as it were.

It can also occur in contact with dead fish and dead water birds.

So stay away from dead fish.

And that is actually related to foots, botulism.

It occurs mostly from 12 to 72 hours after the infection.

And the differences are worse, worse, I have to talk.

And then there is actually something more extreme, a delay.

So now...

And if you add it up in time, can you adjust it?

Or is this a disease that I'm going to get?

No, it's the same thing.

It is, I think, deadly.

No, treatable.

Yes, treatable.

Sorry, I'm...

You know I'm a hypochondriac.

So if I can die from it...

For you, it's very deadly.

Yes, very deadly.

No.

Try to put it in your chest.

Now, at the end of the day, I'm going to breathe.

The patient will have to breathe to survive.

So what she thinks is that...

Sorry, is this North Korea?

Yes, this is North Korea.

And she says that she took a sleeping pill,

but because her nerves and brain were so weak,

she couldn't sleep well,

and because of that, she had a heart attack.

And she came back in this situation.

So that's the theory, or what is said in North Korea.

But they don't believe that story.

So she says, look, she got a kind of...

She got a heart disease.

They didn't revive her.

But we can't say that she got a heart disease.

But as she says, she didn't find any evidence

of physical abuse or torture.

The chance of her neck and head were normal,

outside of the brain.

And they also added that they didn't find any evidence

of bone or entire broken parts

that would be there in time.

And that was a good condition for the rest of her.

Her skin, her ears, her...

They took good care of her.

Yes.

And then you start counting back.

And then you see, we saw her twice,

since she was arrested.

The first time she read her statement,

you also saw health,

where on the outside there were no visible signs,

and the same with her sentence in the court.

There too, she saw good health.

But after the sentence,

they had to support her to bring her outside.

But I suspect that it was a mental illness.

So you start to think,

if you know that this happened after her sentence,

what happened?

Yes, and then the option also comes up.

You also think about suicide.

Yes, but that's really what I think.

Yes.

I think...

I think it has to be very clear,

if you get a sentence like this,

you have no communication,

there are other prisoners from North Korea

who do have contact,

or through letters with their family,

but we know there has been no contact.

He's very young.

He has written a misdemeanor

that he probably didn't do it.

And even if he did it,

it's a fucking poster, I mean...

Yes, do it normally.

North Korea?

Yes, North Korea really has to chill the fuck down.

Yes, the loo loo.

Really, stop it.

Stop North Korea.

But I can understand that after such a sentence,

a man is punished.

And I think,

why I think that,

because I think that North Korea

doesn't want him to die.

I mean, that's what he's trying to do.

Or he's trying

to turn those men around.

And that he's in that situation,

but that it was for him,

that he doesn't want to die in America.

It seems like those two countries

are poking each other with a stick,

but they're playing the game.

But it's not allowed to escalate.

And I think that it was for him,

that life was so important,

that Otto stayed alive.

Did you think that he was well followed?

Oh, for sure.

I mean, I think so.

He was arrested.

Physically followed, I don't know,

but I can imagine the classics

of hours-long interrogations,

waterboarding, that sort of thing.

That's what happened.

Because what I do think now,

we say that his body was in good condition,

but his teeth were all crumbly.

Yes, but there's just a lot of discussion about that.

His legs and arms were misinformed.

Because those doctors have never been arrested.

Even the American doctors.

No, that's something that the mother says.

Yes.

So the first thing I did with this bag,

when I was researching this bag,

I typed his name,

and Google made the Aftit teeth.

Oh, teeth, yes.

So I was first researching it,

and then I was like,

how is that possible with teeth?

Yes, and that's super inconclusive.

There are people who say that there's nothing wrong with teeth,

but the parents keep saying,

no, there's something wrong with that.

Yes, that's very bizarre.

That's very bizarre.

Now, the thing is, of course,

North Korea still lives with the United States.

In any case,

the communication between the United States and North Korea

is very strong.

Yes, absolutely.

They bring the honesty to the outside,

or they have something like,

okay, this is fucked up,

but we can't share too much here,

because then we bring even more people in danger.

Yes, because that's something we have to talk about.

So what I personally find strange,

or...

Is there only one thing you find strange about this bag?

Yes, this too.

Now, at some point,

the parents decide to remove the food waste,

which means that of course you don't get any more food.

And he dies on 19 June 2017,

when he is 22 years old.

Now, you would think,

okay, that boy has contributed a lot.

We bring an autopsy out here,

then we know what happened.

But the family of Otto Warmbier says,

we're not going to do it.

We're not going to do an autopsy.

And then I kind of get into what you just said,

that there are some things that weren't allowed to come out.

Am I in conspiracy now,

or is it just the wish of the parents,

or are they going to let it rest?

That's something I also have to think about.

And I haven't looked it up anymore,

but would you be able to make it with your faith?

Yes, they are Methodists.

No, they are Jews.

Sorry, I was in the picture,

that's what North Korea says.

I'm just going to google it.

Google it, it's just a moment.

Now, I'm going to move on.

They are doing a post-mortem investigation.

If I say that correctly,

and there are some other possible deaths,

such as long-term deaths,

long-term deaths or sepsis,

near-falsions,

those kinds of cases.

And to get back to that,

to get back to the botulism with the sleep pill,

the combination of that.

The doctors also say,

we didn't find anything that shows

that he would have had botulism before.

But others say,

we can't exclude it either.

Just because it took so long

before Otto was back in the United States.

So, we can't say that

no one is allowed to go out.

I don't really think so,

but there is a point about that.

As soon as the death is determined by a doctor,

and the eyes of the deceased are closed,

the hospital or hospital

is contacted as soon as possible.

And the hospital has to be treated as soon as possible

to prevent the deceased from being protected.

So, did the doctor have to be suspicious?

I don't know.

But if it's not their belief,

maybe it's because they're American.

I don't know.

But maybe it's because of a conscious choice.

I made that thought

because it might have been something religious.

I don't want to compare it with conspiracy theories.

But it's a thought that you made,

because it's a very spiritual thing.

And as an elderly person,

I think you can really answer that in search of answers.

You also profiled a lot during and after the case.

They also gave a dead interview on Fox.

It seems like you're going to answer hard in search of answers.

So I would also assume that there will be something

from inside out.

An autopsy, that's what I mean.

So that's the strange thing about Otto.

What I found is that

the family of Otto complains about North Korea.

An American lawyer has decided that

the state or country of North Korea

has to pay for the damage caused by Otto's family,

which is 439 million euros.

But that's a symbolic opinion,

because you can't force a country to pay.

I want countries that have money tomorrow.

I know that.

Fred and Cindy say that they are very grateful

that the government of Kim Jong-un

keeps their moral responsibility for the death of their son.

I want to ask you something.

Do you have any idea what had to have happened

in Otto's life for the past 1,5 years?

Or as long as he was fully aware of it?

And there are people who have been caught in North Korean prisons.

They have been released after that,

which can be convinced.

Robert says that the North Korean prison

is hell on earth.

People would have less rights than a dog.

You get beaten regularly.

People hunt on mice,

so that they had something to eat.

A woman claimed that she saw 6 to 8 prisoners die every day.

Every day?

Every day.

Then there was an American journalist

who claimed that she saw 6 to 8 prisoners.

They said that they were treated well.

Most of the time we were kept as foreigners

in a kind of guest house.

You can compare it with a hotel.

It's a room where you sometimes had two or only two people,

but it was really a bed.

But what she said had to happen was

that she had been asked for hours.

She asked for 15 hours a day,

for 5 months,

which is what she had to do.

She said that she had been told that she was going to stay in jail

until she was satisfied.

She said that she couldn't come to a conclusion

because she had been asked for hours and hours.

She also said that it seemed like

she would have beaten her physically.

That it would have been physically wrong.

That she didn't want the outside world

to hear such stories.

That car was not in contact with the outside world

was special because she said

that she could still write letters.

Then it was about the little free time

that she got while she was in jail.

She was there.

She was in her cell,

she was asked for sleep.

If you had a little free time,

you could watch North Korean propaganda films.

That was your free time.

The thing is, I think this story is so tough

because it could happen to any of us.

Yes, absolutely.

It's so absurd.

You go on a trip like this for 4-5 days.

You go for the kick, right?

I would want a souvenir,

because that doesn't really work.

When she did it,

even when she was drunk,

in the new year's night,

she found her room

or maybe she wanted to look for something to eat.

Yes.

That's weird,

that she has been in jail for 15 years.

For a long time.

For a long time.

And then she lost her life

because of a fucking poster.

She lost her life.

She lost her life.

So...

No, I will never go back to the past.

Never.

Never.

Never.

But my point of view is never.

Yes.

The thing is, I know myself

and I would really like to have that urge.

Like...

I mean, I'm not the biggest

kick-seeker or something.

I live a very, very bourgeois life.

But still, if I had something like that,

I would be able to do something else.

But you want something tangible when you come home

to say, look where I am.

I understand his behaviour

when he did it very well.

But do you think he has that poster?

I don't think so.

According to me, he has put it in his pocket

and they just took it warmly.

What we haven't said yet

is that Danny, his friend,

Otto, during his new year's night

had been gone for two hours.

Every now and then,

there were some people bowling,

there were some people at the bar.

And Danny and Otto were always

a lot together, let me put it this way.

And that night,

they lost each other from the eye

but against that, Danny went to sleep.

Otto was already asleep in his bed.

So there is just no one who can really say

where Otto was at a certain moment.

So for me, it is possible that he did it

because it is so something trivial and innocent,

I could do it too.

I could do it too.

And...

Or yes, no, not again.

But I don't know.

I think so.

Yes, if I think back now...

If you are 22 years old...

22 years old?

Yes, or even when you travel to Italy

and you go to school...

Oh, maybe it's quiet.

Maybe if they learn a lot from me.

Where I spend 9 hours a day in my bed.

No, but I understand the excitement.

But fucking hell, North Korea,

get your shit together.

Do it again.

Voila, they are going to listen.

Yes, I think so.

They will listen to us.

I'm sure of it.

Why?

There are books.

Wow, I'm going to send a message to North Korea.

Very good.

Silke, you are now on vacation.

I'm almost back.

You are almost back.

We are just going on.

So in two weeks there will be a new episode.

Silke is going to sit out here and be happy.

Certainly, read books.

Read books.

I'm going to let you know.

Yes, very good.

Thank you for listening guys.

Thank you guys, bye bye.

Bye.

Machine-generated transcript that may contain inaccuracies.